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alan

Dec 11 2004, 02:04 PM

i would like to show you a good idea that might interrest every developpers :

QUOTE

ZFR c'est quoi ?

ZFR est la distribution GNU/Linux orientée PDA sous OS Libre.

Il s'agit d'un live-cd classique dans lequel ont été ajoutées les applications nécessaires à la synchronisation et au développement d'applications pour votre PDA favori.
Pourquoi ZFR ?

La seule distribution existant à ce jour à ma connaissance est celle proposée sur le site de Sharp. Cette distribution semble ne plus évoluer et se trouve être relativement pauvre. Il s'agit en fait d'une distribution demolinux à laquelle a été ajouté un cross compilateur pour processeurs ARM. L'équipe de pdaXrom indique sur son site qu'une distribution va voir le jour avec leur SDK... Bref, aucune distribution ne propose tout le necessaire pour travailler efficacement et complètement avec son PDA. Il fallait y remédier ! Hors de question de se limiter à une "ROM" particulière où à un profil développeur endurci !
Qui fait ZFR ?

ZFR à été créée à l'initiative de votre serviteur (Titeuf) pour le compte de la Communauté des Utilisateurs Francophones de PDA sous OS Libre : ZaurusFR

C'est une distribution ouverte à laquelle chacun peut, s'il le désire, participer.
Comment participer ?

C'est très simple, et il y a beaucoup de manières de participer (debug, doc, scripts, propositions, etc...) Tout le monde est invité à apporter sa touche personnelle, toutes les idées sont les bienvenues. Pour le moment, il suffit de faire un mail à titeuf@2m01.net A ce jour, il est prévu de mettre en place un forum de discussion
Comment est construit ZFR ?

La distribution live ZFR est basée non pas sur la debian (effet de mode !) mais sur LFS 5.1 et BLFS 5.0

Le cdrom contient tous les outils nécessaires pour refabriquer un nouveau cdrom. Cependant, afin de ne pas partir dans tous les sens et de faire profiter à tous de vos idées, il est conseillé de proposer vos modifications/ajouts afin qu'ils soient pris en compte dans la distribution "officielle".

I'm really tired, so i won't translate everything tonight. (bablefish might do the trick for me.) In short, ZFR is a live CD in wich any necessary pda programing tool have been added. It s not desingned for any particular rom, but might be a good source of inspiration for pdaxrom team.

more infos (in french, sorry...) here :
http://zfr.2m01.net/AProposDeZFR

allyrfriends

Dec 11 2004, 04:58 PM

QUOTE

What is ZFR?

ZFR is the PDA-orientated GNU/Linux distribution under Free OS [FSF? -- perhaps it's just my ignorance, but I'm not sure what 'Free OS' refers to, other than GNU/FSF].

It acts as a traditional live CD to which has been added the necessary applications for synchronisation and application development for your favourite PDA.

Why ZFR?

The only existing distribution to date, to my knowledge, is the one on Sharp's website. That distribution seems to be no longer developed, and is relatively poor. It acts in fact as a Linux demo distribution to which has been added an ARM cross-compiler. The pdaXrom team mention on their site that a distribution will see the light of day with their SDK... In short, no distribution provides all that is necessary to work effectively and completely with its PDA. This must be remedied! Being limited to a particular 'ROM' or to a hardened developer profile is out of the question!

Who makes ZFR?

ZFR was created through the initiative of your servant (Titeuf) on behalf of the Community of Francophone Users of PDAs under Free OS -- ZaurusFR.

It's an open distribution in which everyone can participate, if they wish.

How do you participate?

It's very easy, and there are many ways of participating (debugging, documentation, proposals, etc.). Everyone is invited to bring their personal touch, all ideas are welcome. For the moment, just email titeuf@2m01.net. A forum is expected sometime.

How is ZFR built?

The ZFR live distribution is based not on Debian (due to fashion!) but on LFS 5.1 and BLFS 5.0.

The CD contains all the utilities needed to recreate a new CD. Nevertheless, in order not to proceed in every direction and to profit from all your ideas, it is recommended that you propose your modifications/additions [to ZaurusFR] so that they may be included in the 'official' distribution.

[My French is not the greatest; there may be some mistranslations there.]

So this is a CD you boot up from just in order to compile for the Zaurus, or other Linux PDA? Seems a little like overkill. Or am I missing something?

Laze

Dec 12 2004, 12:30 AM

Its already made and is going to be available together with the next release.

Actually pdaXrom is going to be available for Dreamcast, x86 and many more different platforms.

cs_jacky

Dec 12 2004, 03:00 AM

Perfect! Everybody can cross compile program for pdaXrom for Zaurus woithout problems?

ScottYelich

Dec 12 2004, 09:27 AM

there is a zaurus dev livecd -- but it's for qtopia and sharp rom.

with pdaxrom able to run on x86, all that is needed is to make the cd iso
bootable, etc. This should be no problem.

This would be perfect for vmware, etc.

Scott

murple

Dec 12 2004, 12:03 PM

Dreamcast??? AWSOME! bring life into the old girl!! I have the NIC, mouse and kb to boot

sweet!

kingmob

Dec 12 2004, 02:49 PM

It's a nice idea - it's sometimes a real PITA to prevent the build from picking up the native libraries on my build machine.

But if it's a live cd, how would you go about adding your own (new) libraries to the build system?

amrein

Dec 12 2004, 10:41 PM

USB key, CF/MMC card reader, small room in your harddrive, network share, an harddisk partition, ramdisk, filesystem created in a file...

If you use Windows, QEMU will permit you to run this CD out of the box and without needing to partition your harddrive nor to reboot. (same thing for GNU/Linux of course)

pgas

Dec 12 2004, 10:56 PM

If you compile something you'll need some writable storage mounted anyway, so
you will be able to add the libraries.

No that I don't believe you should expect too much about this, some (most) apps building process just don't take cross-compilation into account or worse need some porting work to run on arm.

A LiveCD will be a convenient way to have the sdk set up without doing anything, compiling the application of your dream might still not be straightforward.

For instance w3m compiles a small helper apps during that it runs afteward during the build process, if you cross compile it, it doesn't work because the helper apps is compiled for arm. So you have to work around, compile the helper app for your build platfrom, tweak the makefiles etc...

The only way to have a no frill cross-SDK would be to provide fixes/patches for all the applications that causes troubles.....

ScottYelich

Dec 13 2004, 11:37 AM

QUOTE(amrein @ Dec 13 2004, 01:41 AM)

huh?

the livecd is gonna be x86, eh?

the only thing qemu would help with would be to exec mid-compile bins such as
lua for arm... on the x86.

Scott

henrik

Dec 15 2004, 05:01 PM

How about offering gcc et al on the actual Zaurus so I can compile the software I need on the road or away from any other computer. Having to use a desktop computer to compile software for the Zaurus is really a pain in the ass.

amrein

Dec 16 2004, 12:39 AM

A Live CD is interesting but I guess the faster way is to use a chrooted x86 pdaXrom or to install it directly.

Sorry ScottYelich, I haven't understood your comment. Perhaps you were talking about qemu-arm but the liveCD is for x86. You can install it on your harddrive, use it and install it in QEMUlator or VMWare or another x86 emulator, or you can chroot it if this last option is possible, or...

pgas

Dec 16 2004, 02:05 AM

@henrik: gcc on the actual zaurus is available now.

@amrein & ScottYelich:
I think amrein refers to the possibility to run the liveCD inside his environement after loading his system on his pc, while ScottYelich is refering to the possibility to run arm binary on his pc.

ajb

Dec 16 2004, 07:33 AM

QUOTE(henrik @ Dec 16 2004, 01:01 AM)

I am a bit confused, isnt this already available. There are feeds for gcc, et al available. I installed them in a chroot environment on a 4GB microdrive on my C860 and I have been able to compile software natively. Is there something wrong with that? I have seen it mentioned in several places that you can not compile software natively. Someone please straighten me out.

conundrum

Dec 16 2004, 09:55 AM

I have gotten gcc running on the zaurus, it's pretty easy. I even tossed the mount command into a shell script to amplify my laziness.

However, I noticed there is no make for the Z. Is it hidden away somewhere, or do I have to compile it myself?

blakeyez

Dec 16 2004, 10:07 AM

CODE

ipkg install make

should do it

Dave

ajb

Dec 16 2004, 11:29 AM

There is a make

http://mirror1.pdaxrom.org/rc5/feed/make_3.80_armv5tel.ipk

If you look at the feeds, everything you need for average everday devlopment is there. I just copied my root filesystem to the cf then copied all of the required feeds to it. Then chroot into the cf, and ipkg install. At that point whenever I want to compile something, all I have to do is chroot into my microdrive and I'm ready to go.

henrik

Dec 16 2004, 12:26 PM

With the new 3000 and its 4 gigabyte hard drive, I want to compile and install directly on it, without using any packaging system. Think /usr/local/.

chroot-ing some CF disk seems overkill when I have a built in hard drive to compile all lovely Linux software on/to.

Where is this gcc/make/automake/autoconf/etc feed you are talking about?

I really want to get LaTeX (tetex) and LyX compiled and running on a 3000. Perfect for on the road production of excellent looking documents.

ScottYelich

Dec 16 2004, 12:43 PM

QUOTE(amrein @ Dec 16 2004, 03:39 AM)

am--

I probably wasn't clear...

lets say I'm compiling on x86... and the configure runs, and the make runs...
and part of the make is to "make" an intermediary "helper" program.

I'm compiling this package "A" -- but it wants to use the language "lua" to do some re-writes etc... and the it wants to compile some more. BUT, the "make" makes an ARM exec on the x86!
so when the "make" continues and tries to run the lua to do whatever it needs -- it will fail.

yes, I could run on the zaurus directory.

no, chrooting won't "fix" this.

however, qemu ... what does qemu do? it allows you to run x86 code. So, you say, what good is this? you're right... x86 emu on x86 doesn't seem all that useful in this sense -- but qemu can
also emulator ARM!

now my "arm" .exe on x86 will actually run (ie: via qemu!)

Scott

conundrum

Dec 16 2004, 06:48 PM

ajb: Thanks. Clearly I went illiterate while browsing the feed. ;P

amrein

Dec 17 2004, 03:15 AM

Packages needing to run executable while compiling or while configuring have to be modified because they are not crosscompiler friendly. Other solutions is to build them on final hardware (on Zaurus for example) or to use an emulator or simulator (qemu-arm, skyeyes, armulator, arm-elf-gdb...).

Emulators can be part of the live CD or part of the chrooted linux distribution.

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