OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Zaurus Distro Support and Discussion => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => Sharp ROMs => Topic started by: _Psycho on November 02, 2004, 10:30:47 am
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I know its been posted before, but in a "off-topic" post.
http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/qt...tml?cid=22#q110 (http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/qtopia-user-faq.html?cid=22#q110)
I was talking to lpotter (Qtopia Community Liaison) the other night about TT plan, and he told me (like the faq) that the Qtopia version 2.1 rom should be out very soon. Thats great news. Im really looking forward to it.
Like 5-6 months ago. I did some Qtopia 1.7 image for my c700, it was really bugged (couples of patches i took from opie to make keyboard work, ts was messed up etc). But i saw the UI and it was a really great improvement. Everything was nicer and cleaner. Im looking a lots forward the 2.1 version (especially since sharp is stuck at 1.5.4 forever). I believe since its directly linked to Qtopia Desktop that Sync will be really better. (Hopefully with Mozilla someday). Of course a lots of peoples swtiched to KDE/PiM already, but who know what TT will release
The ROM will be gcc 2.95.3 to keep compatiblity with older version (so standard sharp ipk will work, guessing the rom is using the same ipkg). I guess they will use the standard 2.4.18 kernel too. Hopefully sashz or others will add the "nice to have" features and support from cacko ROM next
I hope they release the ROM with gcc 3.4.2 for the 20-25x speed improvement later. (even if it break all .ipk compat).
Anyone else looking forward the new Qtopia version ?
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Hopefully sashz or others will add the "nice to have" features and support from cacko ROM next
I hope they release the ROM with gcc 3.4.2 for the 20-25x speed improvement later. (even if it break all .ipk compat).
Anyone else looking forward the new Qtopia version ?
While the newer Qtopia stuff may be nice, I doubt there are any improvements that would allow most people to justify sacrificing Sharp ROM compatibility. Compatibility is one of the main reasons that the Sash/Cacko ROMs have been so popular. I believe (though I may get flamed for saying so) lack of compatibility cost Opie a lot of developer support (and lost Opie app developers a lot of potential users) and I'd hate to see the same happen to Cacko. I hope that the Cacko ROM continues to do what it has done so well in the past ... improve on the Sharp ROM without trying to radically change the fundamental components (kernel and Qt/E - Qtopia) so it doesn't fragment into yet another "niche" ROM.
As for the gcc 3.4.2 speed improvements ... those are for floating point operations only. The FP speed boost is great if you want to run Quake or an AV codec that hasn't been properly "integerized", but 99% of Zaurus apps will see no more than a couple percent speed improvement (if any) from building with gcc 3.4.2 with the alternate FP handling. Just improving Quake is not, IMHO, a compelling reason to break all .ipk compatibility!
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I'm also a bit sceptic about that Qtopia ROM since you know my attitude towards fragmentation. Then again, what will the Opie team do? Will they catch up with the Qtopia improvements or improve their own side track? Catching up would be better in terms of compatibility but is probably a huge task and the Opie team does not have the resources to do that.
@kopsis: To many people it's about stagnation or progress. The SharpROM and its clones are hopelessly outdated in many areas, not only the kernel. The most important benefits of Linux over stuff like PalmOS and WinCE are freedom and huge progress. With Sharp stagnating, both advantages start to vanish hence will be the attractiveness of the Linux platform to potential PDA buyers and developers.
Btw., the next steps for OpenZaurus will likely be to use the forthcoming g++ 4.0 and uclibc which both will give a real nice surprise in speed and size improvements.
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Then again, what will the Opie team do? Will they catch up with the Qtopia improvements or improve their own side track? Catching up would be better in terms of compatibility but is probably a huge task and the Opie team does not have the resources to do that.
There's little (or nothing) which I can't get from (or would be able to get if I were to add to) OE, so I'm all for Opie 'branching' out.
I can't see that the introduction of a new ROM will suddenly increase commercial (read: no source code available) software production, so it's neither here nor there IMHO.
Si
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Those roms are compatible with applications compiled for the Zaurus, assuming they used the SDK available,
Source code for Qtopia 2.1 will be available.
What you'll get is a stable product that syncs with Windows, Linux and Mac OS.
These roms will come with NO support from Trolltech.
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@ lpotter
First off, let me say that you guys continue to impress me. Between opening QT up for the KDE folks (not really for THEM, yatta yatta), and now picking up the ball that Sharp dropped so unceremoniously, Trolltech has always been a class act in my view. If I ever get around to getting proficient in Python, rest assured that PyQt will be my choice.
Re: Qtopia ROM 2.1. . . I assume when you say
syncs with Windows, Linux and Mac OS
you mean "syncs with Qtopia Desktop on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS." Will there be any hope for those of us confined to Outlook at work?
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That's very good news loptter. If I understand you correctly, it should be no problem to get the cacko developpers to start improving on 2.1 instead of the standard Sharp ROM, right?
Will we be able to synch up with Outlook/Mozilla? Integration is really a strong selling point whenever I'm involved in PDA implementation projects, so that would be great.
I'd have a serious talk with the KDEPIM/PI guys, they've done a great job replacing the limited integrated PIM apps.
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What you'll get is a stable product that syncs with Windows, Linux and Mac OS.
Hi,
Will there be any way for developers to add support for synching 3rd party apps? i.e. something similar to Palm conduits.
Thanks,
Clive
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@kopsis: To many people it's about stagnation or progress. The SharpROM and its clones are hopelessly outdated in many areas, not only the kernel. The most important benefits of Linux over stuff like PalmOS and WinCE are freedom and huge progress. With Sharp stagnating, both advantages start to vanish hence will be the attractiveness of the Linux platform to potential PDA buyers and developers.
Btw., the next steps for OpenZaurus will likely be to use the forthcoming g++ 4.0 and uclibc which both will give a real nice surprise in speed and size improvements.
Mickey Hi,
Looking forward to taking a look at newer versions of OZ as they come along, I have great hopes for the project, however, your comments on stagnation whilst technically true also ignore the main reason that people continue to use Cacko/Sharp ROMs and really that is compatibility with Zaurus IPKs written for Qtopia.
Prior to getting a Z I had been playing around with OPIE on iPaqs running familiar for a couple of years... was finally totally depondent that HP couldn't release an SD driver for the H3970 that I had (thought it would be a great machine - 48Mb Flash !) due to the vendors of the chipset not wanting an open source driver published (even though the H5450 got one !) and bought an SL-C860.
However, one observation that I had during that time was with every possible update there seemed to be several critical apps that would prove quite dear to me that invariably kept chucking sigsegv's .
I tried OZ a few weeks ago and the situation had really improved, however, there were still a lot of nasty bits that hadn't been resolved and to be quite frank returning to Cacko 1.21b was a breath of fresh air... the ROM was snappy, I had fast ATIW100 acceleration and I could still tailor it.
Lets face it, in terms of desktop type power the Z hasn't got the grunt so attempting to go that whole extra mile for the fastest FP support etc. has somewhat limited appeal unless you have a real need for it.
If, however, you realise that 2.4.18 kernel/2.95.3 gcc still is a powerful combination in comparison to other PDAs then you can stretch the basic Sharp ROM into new areas without compromising compatibity... i.e. I just discovered that Wikipedia static pages couldn't be processed by the wiki2zaurus project but the original author for wiki2static.pl was still maintaining... Now I'm a much more seasoned C/C++ programmer than a perl programmer so I built a squashfs module for Cacko 1.21b... problem solved... what takes up 3Gb of space on my desktop can be squashed into 550Mb on my Z and it means I only have to rely on one script maintainer... As I said on that thread "Now can you do THAT on your PocketPC" .
Anyway, I have hopes for the future of OZ and would LOVE to see stable versions of OZ running with 2.6 Kernels but I think that I would be more likely to go GPE than OPIE given that my main motivation in going that route, if I couldn't get 'standard' packages working would be to choose an easier porting path - the X route is obviously going to be better for this.
No real conclusion to my speach, would really like to see how OZ/OE pans out but at the moment the 'old school' still has a lot of advantages.
- Andy
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I disagree with you Andy (iamasmith) ;-).
There's not much that I want which can't be compiled for OE (so no need to be tied to GCC 2.95.3).
The exceptions are:
* a spreadsheet app (opie-sheet needs work, all well and good, at least there's a starting point)
* a Word processor (actually there may be something decent out there now but I've not been looking for a while) - MS Word compat would be nice, but in truth it's easier to work in RTF then do the main stuff on a *big* PC - that said the ability to read MS docs would be useful (Word/Excel).
* Java (not sure whether there's anything on this front)
I can't think of anything else.
GCC 3/4 improves not only the fp speed but the normal code too (or so I believe), and any speed improvement is a good thing. The 2.6 kernel is also supposed to be far better speed-wise.
A couple of other annoyances - some apps can't be compiled with GCC 2.xx, they need 3.xx (Octave and R for example).
I can see why you'd want to stay compatible, but I think that going forward is the only way to go.
Si
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lardman pretty much voiced all I could answer. If there was a huge amount of commercial stuff which only runs on SharpROM + Clones, then I would agree that compatibility is a good thing. But as it is, it's really just a couple of Office Style Apps (for which I question the usability on a PDA anyway) and some miscellaneous Java things. Everything else is open source and either already in OE or could be added by someone who is interested and motivated.
I tend to see the bigger picture once and then, which is to attract new users and developers you need to support current software. Sharp in the year 2004 still releasing devices w/ a confirmed outdated and buggy kernel and insisting not to cooperate with mainline is in my eyes a very unfortunate signal. We as the OpenZaurus community try to improve this situation, but our power is limited (as is the number of volunteers). We can't afford to fractionate it even more by trying to progress _and_ staying compatible.
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A couple of other annoyances - some apps can't be compiled with GCC 2.xx, they need 3.xx (Octave and R for example).
In all fairness, there are versions of R that will build just fine under GCC 2.95. No, they're not the "latest and greatest", but that doesn't mean they're not good enough. Good enough seems to be something of a paradox in the Open Source world. It's fundamental to the "release early, release often" philosophy -- you don't hold release until the app is perfect, you throw it out there once it's "good enough". Yet at the same time, a huge amount of effort is invested/wasted in keeping up with the latest kernel and toolchain even though doing so may not have any quantifiable benefits.
Is the 2.6.x kernel superior to 2.4.18? Absolutely! Does that mean any Zaurus running 2.4.18 is hopelessly obsolete and useless? I think not. For most users 2.4.18 (with a very small handful of useful patches) is really good enough. Case in point, the Kopsis web/email server is still running Debain "stable" with a 2.4.27 kernel. Would 2.6.8 give me better performance? Probably. Would it be worth the time/money to upgrade? Nope. Would Apache 2.x give me lots of new features? Yep. Do I need any of them? Nope.
Now, there are plenty of cases where upgrades do make sense. My workstation, for example, always runs the latest released kernel. My point is that for special purpose machines (and for many users the Zaurus falls into that category), progress is wasted effort if what you have is good enough.
Now for some, Sharp ROM compatibility isn't good enough. I respect that and I aplaud the creation of OE to address those people's needs. But to expect those for whom Sharp compatibility is good enough to sacrifice not only compatibility but also word processing, spreadsheets, syncing, video acceleration, etc. just for the sake of "progress" seems unreasonable.
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In all fairness, there are versions of R that will build just fine under GCC 2.95. No, they're not the "latest and greatest", but that doesn't mean they're not good enough.
Agreed, there are versions of both R and Octave, but in my case they are not good enough (talking about Octave here) as 2.1.57 is vastly better than 2.0.17 in terms of compatibility with MATLAB.
I agree with you that there's no reason to keep updating willy-nilly for no reason other than that the new version is newer, but I really would like my Z to be faster, to have a more stable kernel, better usb handling, etc.
But to expect those for whom Sharp compatibility is good enough to sacrifice not only compatibility but also word processing, spreadsheets, syncing, video acceleration, etc. just for the sake of "progress" seems unreasonable.
Agreed, so these things have to be improved for OE.
The truth of the matter is that there really isn't much (even the above) keeping me with the old stuff, and I don't want my Z to become extinct.
Si
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lardman pretty much voiced all I could answer. If there was a huge amount of commercial stuff which only runs on SharpROM + Clones, then I would agree that compatibility is a good thing. But as it is, it's really just a couple of Office Style Apps (for which I question the usability on a PDA anyway) and some miscellaneous Java things.
... and the Japanese input methods (especially the hand writing recognition). And that's what keeps me (and hordes of Japanese Zaurus users) with the Sharp ROM.
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Right. And since we don't have the source of those things, it will stay like that until someone is annoyed(*) enough of the SharpROM to rewrite them from scratch.
(*) Annoyance has shown to be the #1 motivation to get something done in open source land
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Annoyance is one thing but it is a different motivational factor for different people.
I'm not young free and single and without better things to do - don't take that the wrong way.
I do have a limited amount of time to 'tweak' within a limited framework if I think the payoffs are going to be good.
I have done that with the Sharp ROM, I'm happy with the results.
I'm not too thrilled at running 2.4.18 kernel or gcc 2.95.3 and even more particularly I'm not at ALL thrilled about having binary only drivers which SHOULD taint the kernel flag because they AREN'T strictly GPL !!!! but, as kopsis says it's good enough.
+ I feel that the limited number of kernel options and support libraries build around one set of clibs has actively contributed to the stability of the Zaurus... I mean what other community of Linux users has a better hit rate with one off kernel module publications than us ?
At the end of the day it's horses for courses. The set of apps that I'm running are about as equal in priority terms as some of the more unusual things that I made my Z do. I can do these without losing functionality and until we get proper ATIW100 acceleration, 320x240 mode and simple things like Calendar and Address lists appearing using the full 640x480 screen when you hit the app buttons (from a suspended state) then I don't think I will be going to OPIE.
GPE does interest me a little, but not to the expense of spending ages getting a comparable feature set to my current config. The main interest, however, with GPE is the possibility of easier porting trad Linux apps based on X and the one area that trad Linux apps let down handhelds is that they don't traditionally scale to the smaller screen - this is where GPE with it's handheld layout designed apps like the calendar and address book really win at the moment over PDAXROM (IMHO).
The reason that Qtopia/OPIE type interface really works is that it IS targetted at smaller screens and apps tend to be layed out for use on those screens. I don't subscribe to the idea of making the fonts smaller and cramming too much on the screen - these devices are designed to be easy to use on the move.... Now if you told me that OPIE supported a pretty much direct mirror of all the QT3 (or QT4) calls and you could pretty much take a KDE application, modify a couple of flags and recompile then WOW, I think I would be right in there... I may be wrong but I don't think it's quite there yet.
So, Mickey, Lardman et al, I know that you need all the development effort that you can get and I think that the people working on the OZ/OE projects deserve a LOT of praise but for other practical reasons it just doesn't suit everyone.
- Andy
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Glad you are happy with the SharpROM - after all, it's good you use Linux. I know I may sometimes sound like one, but I'm surely not wanting to be a missionary
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Slightly OT, but I've just finished playing with Qtopia Desktop. Never tried it before, b/c I'd been mostly with the Sharp ROM, and the one they provided sucks.
Anyway, I'm happy that it sync's well with the Hentges ROM I currently have. I'm REALLY happy about the "Outlook plugins"--they work great too. For upcoming v.2.1 ROM, I'd sure love to see support for notes and e-mail too. . . if not in the Desktop app itself then Outlook plugins for them.
On another note, I think with a little work Qtopia Desktop could be a capable PIM app in its own right. There are plenty of QT-based projects that would allow you to add the necessary functionality (Aethera comes to mind as one that had potential that was never given a chance). If there was a Qtopia Desktop app that could handle calendar, contacts, to-do (which it does already, obviously), e-mail, notes, documents (I like this feature), and maybe RSS news, I'd ditch Outlook no questions asked.
My two cents. . .
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lpotter, any indication what classes will not make it into the qglobal.h for the Z? IE, will certain dialog boxes and URL classes still be removed? The Z is a great networked device, but is crippled somewhat when workarounds must be developed for network access.
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Trolltech rep said that Qtopia pda is out but to use it on the zaurus you have to recompile it in a linux build system enviornment and flash the device and that he is running it currently on his SL-6000.
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I guess the debate is bigger than i thought, i just wanted to know if anyone else was looking forward 2.1
Im using cacko ROM right now, i tried everything possible, its just the best for me.
Every applications i need work fine in 640x480, (A lots of Opie stuff like games were still 320x240 doesnt fit well, I know i could go out and fix them myself, but i dont have the time for that). With the new KDE/PiM, it completed my PDA. It doesnt crash, the memory / swap applet is great, i dont have bugs etc.. The speed is decent.
Im looking 2.1 especially since i know cacko use a couples of apps from Qtopia 1.6 (well i think). The rom will be more complete, more fine tuning, faster a bit i bet with the quichlauncher, better design overall, more features, neat stuff for applet.
I hope it wont be out at the end of december. Maybe they are waiting on the C3000 to support it to release it ? Who know. Or maybe they are waiting on KDE/PiM 2.0 to release the rom with it
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Which models are supposed to be supported by Qtopia 2.1 ?
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Which models are supposed to be supported by Qtopia 2.1 ?
He said it has been tried on all handhelds that support linux not just Sharp ,including Ipaq, and it works fine. They cannot release a direct Zaurus version because it would conflict with their Sharp agreement but it is "Open" software and can be compiled by the user.
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The full screen handwriting input method in Qtopia 2.1 sounds very interesting.
Does anyone know if they have improved their PIM apps, specifically including exceptions to repeating events and a snooze alarm in the calendar?
While Trolltech cannot produce a ROM for a Zaurus device, can anyone else?
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I understand that a Zaurus specific version of this ROM can't be released, but is there documentation that explains how to compile it?
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If not for anything else, the 2.1 should be worth an upgrade just for the full screen handwriting.
I know, we are all so used to the keyboards, but still a fullscreen might still be more usable for those short quick jotting, rather than the smallish handwriting applet now.
I would love to see Cacko ROM upgrade slowly to this version someday.
Also, does it add any phone features (from the Qtopia phone) to be able to make the Zaurus as a dial-out tool too ?
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when can we download this version? currently the only one from their site is version 1.7.
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Also, does it add any phone features (from the Qtopia phone) to be able to make the Zaurus as a dial-out tool too ?
From what ljp told me, the phone features wont be in the PDA version, but i could be wrong.
I dont know why peoples say they cant release a ROM. I never saw that mentionned anywhere. Even on they website they say they going to release a ROM for most models. I hope we get it soon too. End of 2004 is getting to the end =P
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I just checked the Trolltech Web site, and if it is possible to download QT 2.1, I have no idea where.
QT 2.1 ROM screenshots for the phone and PDA version (PDA version shows full-screen handwriting recognition): http://www.trolltech.com/screenshots/qtopia.html (http://www.trolltech.com/screenshots/qtopia.html)
QT 2.1 documentation (lots of good explanations, but no download):
http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.1/html/index.html (http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.1/html/index.html)
The links from the Qtopia 2.1 Free Editions documentation page (http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.1/html/qtopia-free-editions.html) links only to the Trolltech downloads with versions 1.6 and 1.7.
Anyone heard anything? I would love to use this ROM, even if I have to figure out how to compile it for my device.
Thanks.
~Ceffyl
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Which models are supposed to be supported by Qtopia 2.1 ?
Probably 5000d, 5500, 5600, c700 and semi-working 6000. ipaq 3630 also works. maybe even a simpad . Because I only have these machines to test.
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I just checked the Trolltech Web site, and if it is possible to download QT 2.1, I have no idea where.
Free version of Qtopia pda 2.1.0 source is not available yet.
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That being said, you seem to be someone in the know about this. Do you know if Trolltech will release a 2.1 ROM for Zaurus based devices, as hinted to in the FAQ's on the Trolltech site? And is this to be released this year? Thanks in advance for any info you may have...
bit_bucket
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That being said, you seem to be someone in the know about this. Do you know if Trolltech will release a 2.1 ROM for Zaurus based devices, as hinted to in the FAQ's on the Trolltech site? And is this to be released this year? Thanks in advance for any info you may have...
bit_bucket
We have a few devices roms working, see my reply to Mickeys post in this thread. Not sure when they will be available. 'Soon' I keep saying, although it has been 'soon' for quite a number of weeks.
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Thanks for the reply... When these are available, where will we be able to download them from? And will these be a complete ROM, IE kernel and fs?
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The screenshots of Qtopia 2.1 look fantastic!
I can't wait until it's available. Keep up the good work Trolltech.
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This ROM sounds really interesting, but while we're waiting, here's a few questions I have:
1. Does the calendar have exceptions to repeating events and a snooze feature finally?
2. Can the Today program be set to Fast Load and appear every time you resume the PDA?
3. What formats can the music and video player handle now? Ogg? DivX?
4. Can the video player play full screen video?
5. Is there any Bluetooth support? I would have thought that the Phone edition at least includes some...
6. Will the Hancom Office apps work on it?
7. Will Opera work on it?
8. Are the Qtopia/QT libraries binary compatible with apps compiled against the older Sharp ROM libs?
9. Will it sync against the Trolltech Qtopia Desktop on Windoze, Linux and Mac like the old Sharp 5500 ROM?
10. Can it be synced with the old Intellisync used with the old 5500 ROMs, so we can sync with Lotus Notes at work again?
That's all for now
I think it's excellent of Trolltech to keep on supporting Linux PDAs in this way. Good job!
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1. exceptions? like repeat every 3rd day? <- yes
What do you mean by snooze?
2.Fast load, yes. The Today app on resume sounds like an interesting idea.
3. The mediaplayer uses ffmpeg
4. Yes
5. No.
6. Yes, it should. Will test.
7. Yes, it does.
8. Yes. Most apps I have tested do indeed work.
9. No. It will sync better than the old version.
10. Not real sure. I can sure test this. It should.
There will be an appropriate license to allow commercial applications like The Kompany's, as well as new commercial Qtopia applications can be run and developed.
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I second that thanks to trolltech. The screenshots look great, and if it can sync with Linux in a straight-forward fashion then count me in.
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This looks great!
I am impatient to test this new version ^^
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1. exceptions? like repeat every 3rd day? <- yes
What do you mean by snooze?
By exceptions he means that if, say you have a meeting regularly scheduled for every Thursday, but the meeting gets cancelled for one week or perhaps it gets moved to Wednesday that week, or a different time.
By snooze he means that an alarm goes off as scheduled, but you hit a snooze button not to cancel the alarm, but to put it off for some period of time -- ie, remind me again in 10 minutes, or in 30 minutes, etc.
BTW, Microsoft Outlook supports both of these features and is a good model to use. To create exceptions, it offers an "Edit this one occurance" as well as an "Edit the series" option.
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By exceptions he means that if, say you have a meeting regularly scheduled for every Thursday, but the meeting gets cancelled for one week or perhaps it gets moved to Wednesday that week, or a different time.
Ko/pi does this - although you have to drag and drop the regular meeting to a different day or time to break the connection to the repeated event. After that you can edit it seperately
Stu
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Great news indeed.
A couple of things while waiting:
1) Do the special key work when logging in from remote (home/end/pgup/pgdown/delete) with SSH/telnet?
2) Very good news on the media player (ffmpeg). Have the playlist support and UI improved at all?
3) Too bad there's no BT, but oh well.
4) Is the TCP over USB now recognized as a connection (for browsers etc. They complain on the current ROMs)
5) Is there a Wifi manager (so you can auto-detect which network you're approaching and change settings accordingly, like on a Mac). Very handy for people with both work and home wifi setups, and those you like to connect at their coffee-shops.
6) Is there an ption to disable auto-suspend and shutoff when a given process is running (so it won't turn off when you use the media player, etc)
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Firstly kudos to Trolltech for carrying on the great work they have done for PDA's and handheld (and now mobiles too).
And while I am on it thanks a lot to lpotter for communicating Trolltechs ideas to us and vice-versa I am sure.
I see on the screenshots that the Qtopia PDA edition Settings tab has "Call Forwarding" and "Call options" settings. How is that so ? Does the PDA version support voice calls and forwarding and all that ?
There is another screenshot of a Settings Tab, where its in a list format and the last entry is "A-Z Words" ? Is that some Dictionary setting or what does it refer to ?
The Handwriting settings is a great plus - as is the Full screen handwriting recognition. This feature makes the Qtopia environment as good and versatile as the other PDA platforms (though on the Zaurus with keyboards, it may not seem to be a big plus).
All in all, at first glance, it looks like a ROM we will all be waiting for with eager anticipation.
Regarding Tumnus's list of questions, I am not too sure I would want a Today app on resume everytime. Better would be to link it to a hardware button and bring it on by choice. Just my preference though.
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- option to disable auto-suspend and shutoff when a give process is running (so it won't turn off when you use the media player, etc)
That's been in Qtopia for ages. Even the Sharp ROMs have that.
Anyway, thanks again lpotter for answering so quickly.
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I third the thanks to lpotter and Trolltech. . . it's great that they're deciding to support the community even though Sharp won't.
As far as the new ROM goes, I can't wait. I will pitch in my questions, though:
1) Will the ROM include a "notes" app?
2) Will the new Qtopia Desktop be able to sync e-mail (w/ attachments) and notes (if they're included)?
3) Will the Outlook connectors be able to sync all these things too? (calendar, address, to-do, notes, e-mail)?
4) Will there by any new connectors included? (I'd love to see connectors for KDE apps)
Thanks again for your hard work and really great support. . .
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Firstly kudos to Trolltech for carrying on the great work they have done I see on the screenshots that the Qtopia PDA edition Settings tab has "Call Forwarding" and "Call options" settings. How is that so ? Does the PDA version support voice calls and forwarding and all that ?
There is another screenshot of a Settings Tab, where its in a list format and the last entry is "A-Z Words" ? Is that some Dictionary setting or what does it refer to ?
Call Forwarding and Call Options are not part of Qtopia PDA, that screenshot needs to be updated.
The Words app is used for the handwriting recognition, so you can add/edit words in the dictionary.
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1) Will the ROM include a "notes" app?
2) Will the new Qtopia Desktop be able to sync e-mail (w/ attachments) and notes (if they're included)?
3) Will the Outlook connectors be able to sync all these things too? (calendar, address, to-do, notes, e-mail)?
4) Will there by any new connectors included? (I'd love to see connectors for KDE apps)
1 - yes. The texteditor has become "Notes" if thats what you mean.
2 - The current version of QD does not support emails.
3 - Yes and no. No emails. But I believe Documents can be handled (not sure if its 'synced'), and you can install application from your desktop, or a feed you specify in QD.
4 - Not at this time. Qtopia Desktop is getting a rewrite for Qtopia 4/Qte4, thus enabling better support for 3rd party import/export plugins.
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- option to disable auto-suspend and shutoff when a give process is running (so it won't turn off when you use the media player, etc)
That's been in Qtopia for ages. Even the Sharp ROMs have that.
In the GUI? Where?
The only solution I know of is via a third party applet. (qpe-suspendapplet)
Lpotter, have you seen my questions?
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In the GUI? Where?
The only solution I know of is via a third party applet. (qpe-suspendapplet)
Not as a graphical button per se, but it is a QCOP command and that is how the 3rd party software does it. Media players, ebook readers, etc should also call this command and if they don't then the application is at fault.
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In the GUI? Where?
The only solution I know of is via a third party applet. (qpe-suspendapplet)
Not as a graphical button per se, but it is a QCOP command and that is how the 3rd party software does it. Media players, ebook readers, etc should also call this command and if they don't then the application is at fault.
Thanks for the info
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Regarding Tumnus's list of questions, I am not too sure I would want a Today app on resume everytime. Better would be to link it to a hardware button and bring it on by choice. Just my preference though.
Under the Sharp 2.0 ROM, I used to have the Today app launch upon every resume, and, I agree, it got to be a bit much. What I would like to see is an option to have it automatically display on resume after a period of time. For example, display on resume if it has been at least 30 minutes since I last resumed.
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1) Do the special key work when logging in from remote (home/end/pgup/pgdown/delete) with SSH/telnet?
2) Very good news on the media player (ffmpeg). Have the playlist support and UI improved at all?
3) Too bad there's no BT, but oh well.
4) Is the TCP over USB now recognized as a connection (for browsers etc. They complain on the current ROMs)
5) Is there a Wifi manager (so you can auto-detect which network you're approaching and change settings accordingly, like on a Mac). Very handy for people with both work and home wifi setups, and those you like to connect at their coffee-shops.
6) Is there an ption to disable auto-suspend and shutoff when a given process is running (so it won't turn off when you use the media player, etc)
1 -
2 - yes
3 - qtopia 4
4 - i believe this is a system thing, not qtopia.
5 - wifi is handled by the 'Internet' application
6 - mediaplayer disables suspend, anyway. You can disable suspend when on connected to network. Indivual applications can also disable suspend
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Will there be a new version of qtopia desktop? The current 1.7.0 build for OS X has problems where dropdown lists show up several inches to the left and up from where they are on form elements.
-
Will there be a new version of qtopia desktop? The current 1.7.0 build for OS X has problems where dropdown lists show up several inches to the left and up from where they are on form elements.
Qtopia Desktop 2.1 will also be released.
-
This week or should we stay tuned?
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Thanks for all your answers, I can't wait to get my paws on this.
Too bad *some* functionality seems to be missing, but I guess it'll get there eventually.
4 - i believe this is a system thing, not qtopia.
5 - wifi is handled by the 'Internet' application
6 - mediaplayer disables suspend, anyway. You can disable suspend when on connected to network. Indivual applications can also disable suspend
1 - You just don't know?
4 - Well the connection setup might be a system issue, my question is more: Will it be possible to have the network applet recognise the TCPIP over USB link as valid connection? So that in turn, apps like netfront and opera can recognize it.
5 - But will it have automatic profiles? (pretty please? ) Right now you can always make several profiles using the Network settings applet, but it doesn't detect which network it should use automatically.
Very nice info, thanks.
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The real question is whether there will be a release this year, with dev groups packing up for the holidays. Does Trolltech still intend to release this, this year?
If not the ROM howabout the source, that way us ubergeeks can create ROM's over the Christmas break.
Anyways thanks for your work!!
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More harassment:
1) Is there a general/functionality changelog available?
2) Any way to disable the sticky shift and ctrl feature? On the clamshells it's more of a hindrance.
3) Any improvements to the power settings applet, so you can turn off screensavers like you can the backlight dimming? A generally more extensive applet would be nice.
4) Are you interested in public bug-reporting on any unsupported ROMs? And if so what's the bug-reporting method?
More tidbits:
http://qpe.sourceforge.net/ (http://qpe.sourceforge.net/) the image hosted at www.sharpplace.com is dead.
http://qpe.sourceforge.net/sharp.html (http://qpe.sourceforge.net/sharp.html) the image there is another image from the same site, also 404.
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There is only one thing that frigthen me for Qtopia 2.1:
For me Opie is for Qtopia the same kind of nighmare that Trolltech didn't want to see for Qt-X11. They were frighten that Qt-X11 could be forked as soon as it would be GPLed.
Qt-X11 haven't been forked because of the strong relationship with KDE. Opie came out as a fork of Qtopia because of Trolltech commercial agreament with Sharp.
Now, Opie is a dead horse. Nobody want to contribute to its code because of the way the last developpers (e.g. those one who are still in) continue to manage the project. Worse than this, those developpers are now waiting for new Qtopia 2.1 to copie the interesting part and to add it to their buggy fork. As Opie uses better ice candy and as it is released for OpenZaurus... it gets more attention than Qtopia.
Well guys... continue your figthing. If you feel good with this, well... I like this because I'm learning how open source projects can be killed with good strategy.
Linux is not an US product nor a Russian product nor a Asian product. At first place, it's a European product without frontier. If you guys want to kill it because it will break your WindowsCE or PalmOS or SymbianOS sales than, well... good lucke in your fighting.
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If Opie is such a dead horse why are you frightened then? Just be happy about the forthcoming Qtopia 2.1 ROM and ignore all further Opie things
Nobody want to contribute to its code because of the way the last developpers (e.g. those one who are still in) continue to manage the project.
Would you dare to elaborate on that?
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In the past, warriors could use dead rat with illness to kill enemies. The rats were just put into the water reserve. The best way to be sure that everyone will drink the poison. Is there a better way to prevent people from using Linux than to show them unstable software unstable operating system and always evolving version without real fix?
Mickeyl, you were part of all discussions on opie@handhelds.org mainling list. If you can't remember what happened there again and again than people should easily understand why so much developers stopped their contribution. This terrible memory of remaining Opie developers is one of the many things that explain why it must stay dead horse. I'm not frighten. Just more and more in pressure to do something to change things. If my own memory is still efficient, I read a post from you on the mailing list saying that you didn't want to contribute any more because of the way of the project was managed, then you stopped to send patch. In another one, you were disgusted by the way the bug tracker was frozen by its maintainer. In many and many threads people were complaining again and again about bugs into Media player, bugs into ipkg, bugs into any part of Opie or familiar. Developers like Harlekin tried to change things for ipkg for example but was hunted by the well trained familar doorkeepers. Many from the translation team has been disgusted one by one by all this strange management choice (disgusted as I was when I left) and they stopped to do their job on the cvs repository. And during all those years, all those guys weren't alone to complain about the different project parts. The developers who didn't want any more to participate in the discussion were saying something even stronger than the ones who were still posting and asking for a revamp.
You are still there because you are still evolved into OE because you love python programming. I guess this as I saw that you released a python book (before to begin to work on OE, I clarify). But other developers have gone away with smaller or bigger quarrel than yours.
As long as the keys won't be in good hands, there won't be any future for OPIE or any other handhelds.org projects. The "no forking, no more segmentation" is no more a solution. "No forking, no segmentation" can then be seen as a very big trap. It's like a fish into a net. I see OpenEmbedded as a big trap too. As long as this project will be more for companies needing Linux distribution than for building a really stable distribution for us Zaurus/iPaq/Yopy/... users it will be a big developer trap. Why should we care about those external companies projects who fit their own needs and not our? As such... OE is not interesting for me because it creates a big illusion and a big frustration. People want something to use and that work and no more vaporware. Developers want to play with other developers and not to be stuck by companies. This last sentence is exactly why Richard Stallman, the GNU project father, started the now big freesoftware movement.
Having a stable OZ is a 1 month work on an OE snaphot but nobody from OE want that. This illusion that someday OpenZaurus will work well and the frustration to see that developers are just playing in reinventing the wheel again and again is now a beautiful weapon to prevent people or developers from living in the Linux pda market. Note that pdaXrom with mainly one developer has done in a few months what your mexican army couldn't do in years.
Without the keys on website ftp cvs and bug tracker and with the use of good vaporware project and well trained doorkeepers, any company can try to disturb open source move. Things like "porting OpenEmbedded to Yopy" for example from the same guy who created www.yopy.org and http://sourceforge.net/projects/yopy/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/yopy/) (and added me in its sourceforge developer list without asking) or people trying to break project like the one who wanted to convert my translation project into a messy Qtopia fork for Yopy (because I was talking too much about a free Linux OS for PDA)...
All open source projects will suffer from those strategies but nobody can prevent the open source to move forward. It will just slow down and redistribute the power to those who understand how to bypass those traps. Like virus... open source actors will just be stronger. This is how MS could call the GPL: the virus of freedom.
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The great thing about open source is that anyone can contribute. Opie is no different.
Most open source developers do it in there spare time, and have lifes to live outside of
development, and as life goes on, you find more and more interesting things to do, and you spend less and less time doing some things in favor of doing others. Most opie developers are uni students, or have full time jobs doing other things. It is a hobby, and not a commercial driven endevor
Opie works by consensus. We have no one who is a leader, but all have a say in things. I like it like this. Controlled chaos. We work on parts that interest us.
Trolltech is not scared of Opie, we embrace it, and encourage it. TT even hired an Opie developer (me), and would like to hire more opie developers.
There has always been an outflux and influx of developers into the community. Even from the launch of the first Zaurus 5000d, developers got disgusted at something, and went their own way.
-
lpotter, now that the source is available, are you guys getting close to releasing the ROM?
-
Changelog?
improved network manager?
decent playlist an no-suspend support in media player? support for additional file types?
any way to disable the sticky shift and ctrl "feature"/ it tends to get confused until you give it a new keypress (irritating in portrait)
Where do I send bug reports?
Ome things that I founf irritataing in the Sharp ROM:- - Character Recognition:
- Impossible to remove a default character from list.
- Impossible to remove accented drawings or characters from list.
- If you recode the "a" you get a zillion "Ã " that you can't remove.
- Config gets slower with higher # of non-default characters.
- Can we get the right default for delete confirmations? (pressing OK cancels the delete command).
- Can you configure "Receive Data" at all?
- control+* shortcuts do not work with the onscreen keyboard.
- apps do not detect screen size change when switching orientation:
- start 2 apps in landscape
- focus app #1 then switch to portrait
- turn on OSK
- focus app #2.
App #2 will not resize around OSK. toggling OSK twices fixes it.
Any changes there at all?
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Ok, I guess I'll post the inevitable question:
Now that I have this source in my hands, what does one need to do to build a Qtopia 2.1 ROM for the Zaurus from source?
It seems very complicated, but I think it is what we'll have to do if we ever want a Cacko ROM 1.23 with Qtopia 2.1
Anyone care to start building a HOW-TO?
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Ok, I guess I'll post the inevitable question:
Now that I have this source in my hands, what does one need to do to build a Qtopia 2.1 ROM for the Zaurus from source?
It seems very complicated, but I think it is what we'll have to do if we ever want a Cacko ROM 1.23 with Qtopia 2.1
Anyone care to start building a HOW-TO?
Actualy it's not that hard, I've done that before with 1.62. The problem is compatibility with Sharp ROM and libraries, sync software etc.
In any case 2.1 is worth at least looking at...
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hey, I didn't read the entire thread, but just picked it up with amrein's post
regarding opie/mickeyl.
ljp - I also agree that opie is good because it provides trolltech with some
"free" feedback as to what developers/users (?) want. I disagree that it's
good only in that it fragements -- but since qt isn't free, and opie is, the
ability to have choice is good.
I'm not interested in a stagnant, static, (os) base. Dynamic is fine for me.
I have been using pdaXrom since before it was the pdaXrom. I installed
openzaurus on my Z the first day that I got it (beore x11 rom, etc).
Having the choice is what is good.
Last night I flashed OZ 3.5.2 (first oz, really, in over a year -- other than a
little 3.6pre1 on 5600) -- and you know what -- I can see the development
that has gone on. If you're catching it incrementally, you might not see it
-- but with a big (enough) jump, it is easily spotted.
pdaXrom doesn't work on my 5600. OZ 3.5.2 makes the 5600 usable.
It's fast.... it fits on the screen. The base install (opie) isn't filled to the brim
an the package manager has more programs to chose from than any
paying system that I know (ie: as if there is one sharp/trolltech). Ya, many
things failed because they couldn't meet dependency in libstdc++6(3.x.x) --
but that's a minor thing compared to not having this choice in the first place.
I wanted to program qt -- and coming from a long time perl background,
I wanted to do OO qt -- and perl wasn't my first choice. I went to learn
python. I did, but it was (too) slow (on the Z) -- and the qt was old (2.3
vs 3.2? and now it looks like 4.x is coming!) --so I started learning c++
just for qt! but this also means that I can't really contribute as much,
right now, because I'm learning..
I can't contribute in terms of programming -- but I can contribute in user
feedback -- whining or not. I don't always have the time or the patience
to track down which method of the week is used for submitting bugs,
but that's another story(excuse).
Anyway, I don't like the fragmentation -- but it's visible all across the OSS
world. The choice is both good and bad -- the best good is that it provides
a choice combined with different proofs of concepts for cross pollination.
So, what do I want to se in a new rom? I dunno. What I want is probablynot
what other people want and it's probably not what would sell. I want to see
a modular system where I can load the components that I want. I wouldn't
assume that my PDA is solely for PIM.
Scott
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ljp - I also agree that opie is good because it provides trolltech with some
"free" feedback as to what developers/users (?) want. I disagree that it's
good only in that it fragements -- but since qt isn't free, and opie is, the
ability to have choice is good.
Qtopia IS free...
http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/announce...s/00000187.html (http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/announcements/00000187.html)
so is Qt.
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ah! awesome...
I've been wanting to sell some programs that use Qt -- but I thought
I had to purchase a license. I am glad to be wrong in this case.
Scott
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You can sell your Qt-based programs without buying a license. Don't forget though that since they need to GPLed you have to provide the source code.
-
yup!
that's all I ever wanted to do...
not like I'd really ever sell anything -- but if I did, I certainly wouldn't mind
giving away the source.
Scott
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4 days till the end of the year... Is TT still sticking to the ROM release this year?
If not, where would be good doco on creating the Z ROM image. I know how to compile this for the Z and get all the files, however I have not found any definitive source on creating a ROM from a TT SDK. Can someone write up a quick and dirty on how to do this?
Before it's said, I should RTFM on this site, the doco does not seem to pertain to creating a ROM image straight from source, but from an existing image.
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On Trolltech's Qtopia FAQ we can read many times
Trolltech is currently pursuing a plan to provide Qtopia 2.1 ROMs for various zaurus models. We expect to make these available in late 2004.
What does it mean exactly ?
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Having a stable OZ is a 1 month work on an OE snaphot but nobody from OE want that.
Join OE mailing list, send us patches to make OZ more stable so we will release 3.6.0 faster. Currently there is no free devs to do it...
I maintain some packages, trying to keep OZ on collie working, have to project/program some websites (thats what I do for cash). Some problems are out of my knowlegde to recognise what it fails.
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What does it mean exactly ?
It means they've missed their deadline, and if it comes as a surprise to you, well, it shouldn't.
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Ah... the first official missed 2004 post.
sigh... been flashing my new 6000 for a week.... nothing is quite right, and I'm at the point with oe of making python errors rather than copies of nano.....
Happy new year all!
adf
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The oe@handhelds.org mailing list has been reinstatiated. Subscribe there and post your problems. (You did read the GettingStarted, did you? )
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I did. I have no doubt I crossed an i or dotted a t or aomething equally absurd. Will sign up, thanks,
Andrew
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What does it mean exactly ?
It means they've missed their deadline, and if it comes as a surprise to you, well, it shouldn't.
There is no deadline. They will appear when we can get them available.
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What does it mean exactly ?
It means they've missed their deadline, and if it comes as a surprise to you, well, it shouldn't.
There is no deadline. They will appear when we can get them available.
I gotta back up lpotter, No where in this thread do I see a release date for the new ROM(s) being announced by him or set in stone on the Trolltech website.
The department of the company I work in does web design, Sometimes site launches are exactly the day and time we say they are, sometimes the sites are launched after that date and time, sometimes they are launched before the deadline.
Sure we want to launch every product exactly when we are supposed to but that doesn't always happen, its the way the world works.
The people at Trolltech are doing a nice thing for our community by developing these ROM(s) for our hardware, I highly doubt that Sharp is paying them to release a new ROM for devices they no longer sell.
Sure it may just be their form of viral marketing (Hey check out this cool new Qtopia ROM on my Zaurus!) to increase knowledge about their product and attract developers who will license their toolkit but their a company and are out to make a profit.
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"Trolltech is currently pursuing a plan to provide Qtopia 2.1 ROMs for various zaurus models. We expect to make these available in late 2004."
Perhaps they work in Financial Years instead of Calendar years
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welllllll..... lpotter never claimed a specific release date, according to cyrus the trolltech site did. I think the thing that got the deadline idea going may have been trooltech's website and the title of the post (before 2005).. It isn't like it's a big deal or anything, but 2004 is over. We'll all be happy to see what they have done when it is done, of course.
adf
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Can you give us a status update lpotter?
Thanks in advance.
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While I know that there is not a fixed release date for a Zaurus ROM, I'm wondering if anyone (lpotter?) has any idea when one might be available.
I've managed to compile and run Qtopia 2.1 on my C760, though my build is not perfect - non-working touchscreen and slow performance. Even so, I like what I see. I'm curious to find out if a proper Zaurus build would run fast enough to consider switching to.
- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan
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While I know that there is not a fixed release date for a Zaurus ROM, I'm wondering if anyone (lpotter?) has any idea when one might be available.
I've managed to compile and run Qtopia 2.1 on my C760, though my build is not perfect - non-working touchscreen and slow performance. Even so, I like what I see. I'm curious to find out if a proper Zaurus build would run fast enough to consider switching to.
- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan
Try applying this patch to qt/embedded for touchscreen access on c7x0
--- qwsmouse_qws.cpp.~1~ 2004-08-23 00:01:47.000000000 +1000
+++ qt-2.3.9/src/kernel/qwsmouse_qws.cpp 2004-08-24 11:39:49.000000000 +1000
@@ -71,10 +71,14 @@
#elif defined(QT_QWS_SL5XXX)
#define QT_QWS_SL5XXX_RAW
typedef struct {
- long y;
- long x;
- long pressure;
- long long millisecs;
+ unsigned short pressure;
+ unsigned short x;
+ unsigned short y;
+ unsigned short pad;
+// long y;
+// long x;
+// long pressure;
+// long long millisecs;
} TS_EVENT;
#define QT_QWS_TP_SAMPLE_SIZE 10
#define QT_QWS_TP_MINIMUM_SAMPLES 4
I will try for in this next week. Cannot promise anything.
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Even so, I like what I see. I'm curious to find out if a proper Zaurus build would run fast enough to consider switching to.
The slowness comes from the lack of w100 hardware accelleration. No one outside Sharp has access to this accellerated Qt/Embedded library, not even TrollTech. (Or did that change recently, lorn?)
-
the kernel from tetsu seems to be claiming w100 acceleration.
-
Any updated status on the release of the ROM? Thanks!
-Pete
-
I wonder about the w100 acceleration too. Hopefully we wont get a ROM full of features, not really usable
-
Even so, I like what I see. I'm curious to find out if a proper Zaurus build would run fast enough to consider switching to.
The slowness comes from the lack of w100 hardware accelleration. No one outside Sharp has access to this accellerated Qt/Embedded library, not even TrollTech. (Or did that change recently, lorn?)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62054\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
unfortunately, no, this has not changed yet. I will keep pushing for this.
Update on the rom... I have been set back a bit, as my drive failed (and among other things such as backups for this drive). So it will be a bit longer, I am afraid.
-
Would it be faster to just create packages of the new Qtopia that could be installed on another rom such as the OpenZaurus bootstrap image?
-
oz/qtopia? along side oz/opie? ..and gpe? that would be interesting. might help the speed issue too, if the whole thing was fed through oe....
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oz/qtopia? along side oz/opie? ..and gpe? that would be interesting. might help the speed issue too, if the whole thing was fed through oe....
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking, I'm suprised no one has made OZ packages with the source they provided yet but maybe the OZ team isnt that interested in the new Qtopia or there are GPL or Legal issues with them doing it.
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No issues other than lack of interest by the core people who are busy enough with taking care about Opie and GPE. If someone (else) adds Qtopia 2.1 to OE it would be welcome and we would ship it as a third GUI option in the next OZ release.
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beyond my current skill. I'm better than I was a month ago.. but i thing rom building is a step or two down the road.
Being a 6000 owner, I'd much much much rather leave the developers alone. hostap, and other fundamental stuff seems more urgent.
However, Qtopia/OZ would be pretty cool if a touch ironic after all the either/or talk.... if anyone gets it working, i'd love to check it out.
-
March second and still no ROMs
-
on the bright side OZ 3.5.3 should be coming soon, shouldn't it? time tyo back up my sharp rom soon....(I hope)
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on the bright side OZ 3.5.3 should be coming soon, shouldn't it? time tyo back up my sharp rom soon....(I hope)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
What's the focus on that release? Do they offer Qtopia as an environment? Edit: re-read the thread, they don't.
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on the bright side OZ 3.5.3 should be coming soon, shouldn't it? time tyo back up my sharp rom soon....(I hope)
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=69200\")
What's the focus on that release? Do they offer Qtopia as an environment? Edit: re-read the thread, they don't.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69440\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
This post makes me think that they might
[a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10967]https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10967[/url]
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This post makes me think that they might
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10967 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10967)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69447\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Awesome!
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take care that qt/embedded is not Qtopia, but the low-level layer for the qt widgets on which qtopia is built.
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My understanding was that they had no objections if someone wanted to work on a qtopia gui for oz..but that none of the developers had time for it.
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Exactly.
If anyone wants to add it to OE please go for it.
I'd be interested in seeing some of the apps from it.
Si
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I think it is great and really noble of trolltech to step up to the challange that Sharp has failedd to accomplish. Building a community behind its product is vital, so it is a really smart career mive also, to badabout the hd-crash though:(
Let us hope it arrives before 2006:p
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I think it is great and really noble of trolltech to step up to the challange that Sharp has failedd to accomplish. Building a community behind its product is vital, so it is a really smart career mive also, to badabout the hd-crash though:(
Let us hope it arrives before 2006:p
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=70466\")
Anyone tried the 2.1 from the Qtopia site?
[a href=\"http://qtopia.net/downloads/]Qtopia 2.1[/url]
Rich
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When was this released ?
at last I must say...
I downloaded the 5000D ROM, lets give it a spin today maybe...
BTW, all the ROM's have the Music player crash problem listed along with no Wireless activation on the 6000. So apart from the Musicplayer issue it should be pretty stable.
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And it sounds like its based on OpenZaurus.
I just flashed (Sans power supply) and I'm awaiting it to boot now.
It's got a nice looking TROLLTECH graphic as part of the kernel
Feels farily fast, Has a lot of apps installed.
Very nice looking GUI.
I've not figured out how to get my WIFI working yet.
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It doesnt seem to have any way to suspend it, Cancel doesnt do anything but close whatever app was open.
Theres no dmesg binary so I cant tell if my CF WIFI is being recognised correctly.
The on screen handwriting is cool.
-
When was this released ?
Don't know, just stumbled along it on the qtopia.net site when looking for Qtopia development info. The qtopia.net site looks new, so may be a few days?
Rich
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announcement yet to be released
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sadly mine asks for a passcode.
I will try to replace the kernel and see if it boots and has touchscreen before I flash back
hmmm.... judging by what the replacement kernel is finding, the flash left the system pretty crufty, that might be the source of the password.
Qtopia wouldn't launch from the "new" kernel. That probably means wireless just isn't gonna go.
edit: restored to factory then flashed to 2.1 worked perfectly. It is pretty--looks a lot like OZ/Opie. Since it isn't done yet (I assume) I flashed back so I could use my Z.
Nice though I had been looking forward to seeing some of this.
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sadly mine asks for a passcode.
I will try to replace the kernel and see if it boots and has touchscreen before I flash back
hmmm.... judging by what the replacement kernel is finding, the flash left the system pretty crufty, that might be the source of the password.
Qtopia wouldn't launch from the "new" kernel. That probably means wireless just isn't gonna go.
edit: restored to factory then flashed to 2.1 worked perfectly. It is pretty--looks a lot like OZ/Opie. Since it isn't done yet (I assume) I flashed back so I could use my Z.
Nice though I had been looking forward to seeing some of this.
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It appears to be based on OZ 3.3.6 and not 3.5.1 or 3.5.2, That may influence the kernel you need to run.
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I wouldn't know where to get OZ 3.3.6 patches--- nor do I have any confidence in my ability to make them work on the fast 6k setup.
I expect you are right though.
I was hoping the 2 pane advancedfm wouuld be in here, too.
still--- this could be pretty cool if it got finished.
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I'm probably missing something here, but if the TT Roms are based on (old) OZ, why not just contribute whatever they have to OZ directly?
edit: I think I get it: Opie is actually based on Qtopia. But why base the TT roms on such an old OZ version?
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I'm probably missing something here, but if the TT Roms are based on (old) OZ, why not just contribute whatever they have to OZ directly?
edit: I think I get it: Opie is actually based on Qtopia. But why base the TT roms on such an old OZ version?
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I believe it said on the site that it was based on a "Stable" release of OZ, Every version past 3.3.6 has been marked as "Unstable" to my knowledge.
That could be the reason that they used it instead of 3.5, Or maybe they started working on the image before 3.5 was available.
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Ah thanks. Wouldn' have been my way to go about it, but now I get why they did it that way
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but why base it on OZ at all? I mean if compatibility is the issue.. then base it on sharp or a tetsu kernel. If it isn't an issue, then the age of the oz is a problem. It just doesn't seem quite right. though I guess it must have to do with the "reabsorption" of opie.
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The OZ 3.3.6 Source is newer than the old Sharp rom source while still being compatible (in 3.3.2 anyway).
I'd guess thats why they picked it over the old Sharp sources.
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The OZ 3.3.6 Source is newer than the old Sharp rom source while still being compatible (in 3.3.2 anyway).
I'd guess thats why they picked it over the old Sharp sources.
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If it worked, it would be a good decision. On the 6k wireless is gone in 2.1. There are newer patched 2.4 kernels ( I think they are newer anyway) from tetsu that actually support the hardware in the box. I don't mean to sound cranky about this, but even OZ came out with better hardware support in their 1st shot on the 6k--and they admit to being unstable. Qtopia's pitch has been "it works--bleeding edge is bad because it doesn't work right" I am surprised to see this. Not disappointed, or inclined to blame trolltech for a messy demo or anything like that (2.1 is pretty cool)--it is simply the opposite of what I had understood their position on development to be--it is ..OEish. I'm sure that something that works beautiflly will come out of this eventually.
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The OZ 3.3.6 Source is newer than the old Sharp rom source while still being compatible (in 3.3.2 anyway).
I'd guess thats why they picked it over the old Sharp sources.
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If it worked, it would be a good decision. On the 6k wireless is gone in 2.1. There are newer patched 2.4 kernels ( I think they are newer anyway) from tetsu that actually support the hardware in the box. I don't mean to sound cranky about this, but even OZ came out with better hardware support in their 1st shot on the 6k--and they admit to being unstable. Qtopia's pitch has been "it works--bleeding edge is bad because it doesn't work right" I am surprised to see this. Not disappointed, or inclined to blame trolltech for a messy demo or anything like that (2.1 is pretty cool)--it is simply the opposite of what I had understood their position on development to be--it is ..OEish. I'm sure that something that works beautiflly will come out of this eventually.
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wifi works on the 6000, you just have to manually edit one file, and run commands to get it running.
Also, there is not a slew of developers working 24/7 on these roms.. just one. and I have many other duties to do as well.
If you don't like the few limitations there are, don't use it.
Patches and fixes are of course, welcome...
I never once said "it works--bleeding edge is bad because it doesn't work right". What I said was these roms use a _stable_ openzaurus. Stable as in not a constantly moving target version revisions. Debian stable is quite slow moving in this aspect also.
The reason I did not use a Sharp based rom, is that they are not a very standard Linux directory structure and its difficult to maintain. Actually, the a300 rom is based on the Sharp rom, and I believe this is the only non Sharp rom for this device.
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kind of a late reply.
The newer image does wireless etc. just fine. tMy complaionts re the 1st image seem to be taken care of.
However.... how do I install shaprom software..like opera on the latest 2.1 on 6k?
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kind of a late reply.
The newer image does wireless etc. just fine. tMy complaionts re the 1st image seem to be taken care of.
However.... how do I install shaprom software..like opera on the latest 2.1 on 6k?
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Settings->Software packages
Or there is also the commandline ipkg
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really though... is there a directory issue with opera or something? I had no luck at all getting it to run. I can't swear there weren't other issues, but i tried the links (what was it? /usr/opera? /usr/share/opera?) needed to make it run in OZ after it didn't work "out-of-thebox" and tried MrSquishy's repacked oz version of the opera ipk. No joy.
I'll mess with it some more,...
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really though... is there a directory issue with opera or something? I had no luck at all getting it to run. I can't swear there weren't other issues, but i tried the links (what was it? /usr/opera? /usr/share/opera?) needed to make it run in OZ after it didn't work "out-of-thebox" and tried MrSquishy's repacked oz version of the opera ipk. No joy.
I'll mess with it some more,...
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Opera doesn't install for me either (SL5500).
Installation using the package manager to either internal storage or SD card fails with the error message "/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/opt/Qtopia/bin/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin..<something cut>
install ipkg returned false for /"
Trying to install from the command line "ipkg install -dest /mnt/card/ opera...ipk" also fails with the error "cant open status file: /usr/lib/ipkg/status for writing: No spce left on device"
Since a fresh install of the ROM starts with the / partition (/dev/mtdblock4) 99% full, I guess that this is the problem. I have no idea what the solution is though.