Author Topic: Trolltech Qtopia 2.1 ROM soon  (Read 29228 times)

amrein

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Trolltech Qtopia 2.1 ROM soon
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2004, 12:27:53 pm »
In the past, warriors could use dead rat with illness to kill enemies. The rats were just put into the water reserve. The best way to be sure that everyone will drink the poison. Is there a better way to prevent people from using Linux than to show them unstable software unstable operating system and always evolving version without real fix?

Mickeyl, you were part of all discussions on opie@handhelds.org mainling list. If you can't remember what happened there again and again than people should easily understand why so much developers stopped their contribution. This terrible memory of remaining Opie developers is one of the many things that explain why it must stay dead horse. I'm not frighten. Just more and more in pressure to do something to change things. If my own memory is still efficient, I read a post from you on the mailing list saying that you didn't want to contribute any more because of the way of the project was managed, then you stopped to send patch. In another one, you were disgusted by the way the bug tracker was frozen by its maintainer. In many and many threads people were complaining again and again about bugs into Media player, bugs into ipkg, bugs into any part of Opie or familiar. Developers like Harlekin tried to change things for ipkg for example but was hunted by the well trained familar doorkeepers. Many from the translation team has been disgusted one by one by all this strange management choice (disgusted as I was when I left) and they stopped to do their job on the cvs repository. And during all those years, all those guys weren't alone to complain about the different project parts. The developers who didn't want any more to participate in the discussion were saying something even stronger than the ones who were still posting and asking for a revamp.

You are still there because you are still evolved into OE because you love python programming. I guess this as I saw that you released a python book (before to begin to work on OE, I clarify). But other developers have gone away with smaller or bigger quarrel than yours.

As long as the keys won't be in good hands, there won't be any future for OPIE or any other handhelds.org projects. The "no forking, no more segmentation" is no more a solution. "No forking, no segmentation" can then be seen as a very big trap. It's like a fish into a net. I see OpenEmbedded as a big trap too. As long as this project will be more for companies needing Linux distribution than for building a really stable distribution for us Zaurus/iPaq/Yopy/... users it will be a big developer trap. Why should we care about those external companies projects who fit their own needs and not our? As such... OE is not interesting for me because it creates a big illusion and a big frustration. People want something to use and that work and no more vaporware. Developers want to play with other developers and not to be stuck by companies. This last sentence is exactly why Richard Stallman, the GNU project father, started the now big freesoftware movement.

Having a stable OZ is a 1 month work on an OE snaphot but nobody from OE want that. This illusion that someday OpenZaurus will work well and the frustration to see that developers are just playing in reinventing the wheel again and again is now a beautiful weapon to prevent people or developers from living in the Linux pda market. Note that pdaXrom with mainly one developer has done in a few months what your mexican army couldn't do in years.

Without the keys on website ftp cvs and bug tracker and with the use of good vaporware project and well trained doorkeepers, any company can try to disturb open source move. Things like "porting OpenEmbedded to Yopy" for example from the same guy who created www.yopy.org and http://sourceforge.net/projects/yopy/ (and added me in its sourceforge developer list without asking) or people trying to break project like the one who wanted to convert my translation project into a messy Qtopia fork for Yopy (because I was talking too much about a free Linux OS for PDA)...

All open source projects will suffer from those strategies but nobody can prevent the open source to move forward. It will just slow down and redistribute the power to those who understand how to bypass those traps. Like virus... open source actors will just be stronger. This is how MS could call the GPL: the virus of freedom.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2004, 01:53:09 pm by amrein »

lpotter

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« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2004, 04:21:59 pm »
The great thing about open source is that anyone can contribute. Opie is no different.

Most open source developers do it in there spare time, and have lifes to live outside of
development, and as life goes on, you find more and more interesting things to do, and you spend less and less time doing some things in favor of doing others. Most opie developers are uni students, or have full time jobs doing other things. It is a hobby, and not a commercial driven endevor

Opie works by consensus. We have no one who is a leader, but all have a say in things. I like it like this. Controlled chaos.  We work on parts that interest us.

Trolltech is not scared of Opie, we embrace it, and encourage it. TT even hired an Opie developer (me), and would like to hire more opie developers.


There has always been an outflux and influx of developers into the community. Even from the launch of the first Zaurus 5000d, developers got disgusted at something, and went their own way.
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bit_bucket

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« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2004, 09:41:52 am »
lpotter, now that the source is available, are you guys getting close to releasing the ROM?

ev1l

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« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2004, 11:07:47 am »
Changelog?
improved network manager?
decent playlist an no-suspend support in media player? support for additional file types?
any way to disable the sticky shift and ctrl "feature"/ it tends to get confused until you give it a new keypress (irritating in portrait)
Where do I send bug reports?


Ome things that I founf irritataing in the Sharp ROM:
  • - Character Recognition:
  • Impossible to remove a default character from list.
  • Impossible to remove accented drawings or characters from list.
  • If you recode the "a" you get a zillion "à" that you can't remove.
  • Config gets slower with higher # of non-default characters.
  • Can we get the right default for delete confirmations? (pressing OK cancels the delete command).
  • Can you configure "Receive Data" at all?
  • control+* shortcuts do not work with the onscreen keyboard.
  • apps do not detect screen size change when switching orientation:
    - start 2 apps in landscape
    - focus app #1 then switch to portrait
    - turn on OSK
    - focus app #2.
    App #2 will not resize around OSK. toggling OSK twices fixes it.
Any changes there at all?

clofland

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« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2004, 11:40:39 am »
Ok, I guess I'll post the inevitable question:

Now that I have this source in my hands, what does one need to do to build a Qtopia 2.1 ROM for the Zaurus from source?

It seems very complicated, but I think it is what we'll have to do if we ever want a Cacko ROM 1.23 with Qtopia 2.1

Anyone care to start building a HOW-TO?
[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']C-760 pdaXrom 1.1.0beta3[/span]
- Sandisk UltraII 1GB SD card - Socket LP CF LAN card - Socket LP CF WLAN card - Socket CF Bluetooth Card Rev H -

maslovsky

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« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2004, 01:38:19 pm »
Quote
Ok, I guess I'll post the inevitable question:

Now that I have this source in my hands, what does one need to do to build a Qtopia 2.1 ROM for the Zaurus from source?

It seems very complicated, but I think it is what we'll have to do if we ever want a Cacko ROM 1.23 with Qtopia 2.1

Anyone care to start building a HOW-TO?
Actualy it's not that hard, I've done that before with 1.62. The problem is compatibility with Sharp ROM and libraries, sync software etc.

In any case 2.1 is worth at least looking at...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 01:39:02 pm by maslovsky »

ScottYelich

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« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2004, 02:21:10 pm »
hey, I didn't read the entire thread, but just picked it up with amrein's post
regarding opie/mickeyl.

ljp - I also agree that opie is good because it provides trolltech with some
"free" feedback as to what developers/users (?) want.  I disagree that it's
good only in that it fragements -- but since qt isn't free, and opie is, the
ability to have choice is good.

I'm not interested in a stagnant, static, (os) base.  Dynamic is fine for me.

I have been using pdaXrom since before it was the pdaXrom.  I installed
openzaurus on my Z the first day that I got it (beore x11 rom, etc).
Having the choice is what is good.

Last night I flashed OZ 3.5.2 (first oz, really, in over a year  -- other than a
little 3.6pre1 on 5600) -- and you know what -- I can see the development
that has gone on.  If you're catching it incrementally, you might not see it
-- but with a big (enough) jump, it is easily spotted.

pdaXrom doesn't work on my 5600.  OZ 3.5.2 makes the 5600 usable.
It's fast.... it fits on the screen.  The base install (opie) isn't filled to the brim
an the package manager has more programs to chose from than any
paying system that I know (ie: as if there is one sharp/trolltech).  Ya, many
things failed because they couldn't meet dependency in libstdc++6(3.x.x) --
but that's a minor thing compared to not having this choice in the first place.

I wanted to program qt -- and coming from a long time perl background,
I wanted to do OO qt -- and perl wasn't my first choice.  I went to learn
python.  I did, but it was (too) slow (on the Z) -- and the qt was old (2.3
vs 3.2? and now it looks like 4.x is coming!) --so I started learning c++
just for qt!  but this also means that I can't really contribute as much,
right now, because I'm learning..


I can't contribute in terms of programming -- but I can contribute in user
feedback -- whining or not.  I don't always have the time or the patience
to track down which method of the week is used for submitting bugs,
but that's another story(excuse).


Anyway, I don't like the fragmentation -- but it's visible all across the OSS
world.  The choice is both good and bad -- the best good is that it provides
a choice combined with different proofs of concepts for cross pollination.

So, what do I want to se in a new rom?  I dunno.  What I want is probablynot
what other people want and it's probably not what would sell.  I want to see
a modular system where I can load the components that I want.  I wouldn't
assume that my PDA is solely for PIM.


Scott
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 02:27:24 pm by ScottYelich »

lpotter

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« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2004, 02:57:14 pm »
Quote
ljp - I also agree that opie is good because it provides trolltech with some
"free" feedback as to what developers/users (?) want.  I disagree that it's
good only in that it fragements -- but since qt isn't free, and opie is, the
ability to have choice is good.
Qtopia IS free...
http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/announce...s/00000187.html

so is Qt.
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech
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ScottYelich

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« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2004, 10:39:00 am »
ah! awesome...

I've been wanting to sell some programs that use Qt -- but I thought
I had to purchase a license.   I am glad to be wrong in this case.

Scott

Mickeyl

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« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2004, 10:55:53 am »
You can sell your Qt-based programs without buying a license. Don't forget though that since they need to GPLed you have to provide the source code.
Cheers,

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | Embedded Linux Freelancer | www.Vanille-Media.de
Consider donating, if you like the software I contribute to.

ScottYelich

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« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2004, 02:17:29 pm »
yup!
that's all I ever wanted to do...

not like I'd really ever sell anything -- but if I did, I certainly wouldn't mind
giving away the source.

Scott

bit_bucket

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« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2004, 11:57:05 am »
4 days till the end of the year...  Is TT still sticking to the ROM release this year?

If not, where would be good doco on creating the Z ROM image.  I know how to compile this for the Z and get all the files, however I have not found any definitive source on creating a ROM from a TT SDK.  Can someone write up a quick and dirty on how to do this?

Before it's said, I should RTFM on this site, the doco does not seem to pertain to creating a ROM image straight from source, but from an existing image.

Cyril92

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« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2004, 08:42:05 am »
On Trolltech's Qtopia FAQ we can read many times
Quote
Trolltech is currently pursuing a plan to provide Qtopia 2.1 ROMs for various zaurus models. We expect to make these available in late 2004.

What does it mean exactly ?
SL-C760 (Cacko ROM), 256Mb CF,512Mb SD
Pentopia stylus 3in1,CF wifi , CE-RH1
looking for : SL5500
Previous : C3000,C860 & 6000L.

Hrw

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« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2004, 09:37:07 am »
Quote
Having a stable OZ is a 1 month work on an OE snaphot but nobody from OE want that.
Join OE mailing list, send us patches to make OZ more stable so we will release 3.6.0 faster. Currently there is no free devs to do it...

I maintain some packages, trying to keep OZ on collie working, have to project/program some websites (thats what I do for cash). Some problems are out of my knowlegde to recognise what it fails.
OpenZaurus 3.5.4x Release Manager
OpenEmbedded, Ångström, Poky developer
My website

Misc embedded hardware.

ev1l

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« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2004, 11:15:59 am »
Quote
What does it mean exactly ?
It means they've missed their deadline, and if it comes as a surprise to you, well, it shouldn't.