OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => Off Topic forum => Topic started by: doc on February 01, 2005, 07:02:03 pm
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I know this is off-Z-topic, but have any Z users tried a Yopi handheld? Are they any good?
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Well Doc, this is a good question. Since we are now an embedded linux forum, you are really on topic
I was always looking for a Yopi, but the are very expensive, if you find one. I think also the OS running X, but am not sure.
Well the only thing I wanted to add is, I am also interessted in the answers in this topic.
Cheers,
Sam
PS: @doc: The new BSG was nice, but it is confusing why they dont make a statement about season 2.
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now we are off topic. <hyjack>I too like the new BSG</hyjack>
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Well you can discuss pretty much anything in the off-topic forums and I too liked the new BSG. I think Season 2 hasn't been announced because they haven't secured funding for it yet. Season 1 was so phenominally expensive that the Sci-fi channel had to get British Sky Broadcasting to cough up for half the cost, which is why we've already seen all of season 1 here in the UK (already going through withdrawl symptoms).
Anyway, it seems to me like Yopi isn't doing very well either. Haven't heard any news about them for ages.
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I really didn't think that the price was much different than a new SL6000 a while back, but I recently looked at their website and didn't even find a way to buy one if I wanted to. No pricing, nothing. I'm not sure they are even available in the US, but I thought it might be a fun toy.
Topic 2. I haven't even watched the 1st season yet, although I know someone who's downloaded it off Bittorrent in AVI format. Looking forward to "seeing" it. I don't have time to watch Sci-Fi or even set my old VCR due to a "cute" little baby girl running around screaming ELMO!
FROSTY!
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Hahaha....my boy is screaming 64 zoo lane!
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Hey Guys,
Topic2:
http://scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=30357 (http://scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=30357)
Cheers,
Sam
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Hey Guys,
sometimes things are strange
Look Who is back:
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...indpost&p=66714 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10665&view=findpost&p=66714)
According to his signature, he can now tell us about Yopi, this would be topic 1 in our discussion.
According to his Avatar, he is also involved in topic2
Very strange thing ....
Cheers,
Sam
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ta daa!!
Now the ZUG forum has opened up a bit I thought I'd come back ;-)
Oh and yes the new Battlestar ROCKS! Being in the UK I've seen them all and watched (and recorded to VCD) each while biting my lip and shaking with excitement, gripping stuff - not that I'm one for watching TV per se but I couldn't resist after watching the miniseries, it was so DAMN GOOD ;-) Check out Ragnar Anchorage: http://www.galacticastation.com (http://www.galacticastation.com) I'm there from time to time.
The news that a new season has now been picked up is great, can't wait.
The connection between the Yopy and BSG is obvious eh? ;-)
To the main point, I loved my 5500, I liked the 860 but I had major dislikes too and it ended up not being used, I spent a fortune and was too scared to use it. So I got a Yopy and it's my kind of machine.
It's a blank canvas out of the box, if you want a PDA in the normal sense it's not the best choice, the apps on non-Korean machines have the odd typo as they aren't great at English - that's my only complaint. People who want to sync with this and that won't like it. I prefer the way it does work however, it uses a web interface to access it's on board PIMs. There's a java method too. I don't bother with PIMs too much, it's not the reason I bought it, and I don't get the impression that many Yopyians do. I just FTP into it and use it like a regular computer. It came with core apps like Dillo, Sylpheed, Gpaint, VideoLAN client, Gqmpeg, Gqview, rxvt, Hancom Office, xRick, Doom and stuff, MySQL, Boa webserver etc. etc. I was amused by Doom being included, these guys know their priorities I thought ;-)
It has a StrongARM SA1100 206MHz and 128MB RAM (not flash which was a gripe I had with the 860) and the battery goes for about 8 hours if you're not using a microdrive. I can't advise about wifi but the vendor does sell them. I don't know if things have moved on with pdaXrom but X on my Yopy feels much faster than my old 400MHz 860. It could be called a bulky machine, it's subjective I guess, it feels just right for me in my hand and feels solid. I don't worry about it falling out of my hand and it doesn't feel as fiddly as my 860 did when opening it, I was always centering the screen. When in the dock it feels solid too, you could beat someone to death with it. It's connected to my Ubuntu box via the same method as my old Zaurii. ifconfig brings the connection up and down from the desktop. Like I said before I FTP, I use gFTP and did have to make some changes to the client but I can't remember what, timings or something.
When I bought it, I was after a pure X/GTK machine and used it for a while before I found out about Qtopia 1.7 being available. It's a double tap operation from the filemanager to install it and it runs as an application under X, it's fast and I've got all my old Zaurus favorites, Opie-Reader, zBedic, ZUC, portabase and Interstellar Flames all running great. I also posted a hack to run Qtopia apps direct from the menu under X without loading Qtopia's GUI which is handy for Opie Reader. I have a 1GB microdrive now and moved a lot of stuff out of internal memory to it and symlinked back, works great. The MMC driver is a bit more fussy but I only use it ocassionally. A wee hack lets me use Ogg Vorbis which is my preferred format for music, it's my music box and I take it out all the time - bass and treble controls are a great feature. I'm currently working on a portable video solution for watching movies using mplayer. Full gcc is installed along with perl, GTK devel stuff and Qtopia dev stuff too, all works great and I've ported a few Agenda apps using the machine itself. Cross compilers are available naturally, I've also had a go there too. There is an independent project YopyNG which is working on a new kernel and I think they *may* change the default GUI or offer a choice, we're running a poll on YLUG to see what people want. I may try and port Qtopia 2.1 or OE. Installing some ipks can be a pain, we usually decompress them and make a tarball. I've got some Agenda apps, X apps, iPaq apps and Zaurus apps too, I like it. Actually my machine is loaded up to the max ;-)
Gmate sell only via YopyPDA (http://www.yopypda.co.uk), I know the guy who owns it - a real nice guy. It costs 219 pounds and is shipped worldwide free of charge. The wifi package is 259. Some say the Yopy was discontinued, this is not so, the Yopy is not differentiated between models and the victim of many rumours. They don't sell as many as they did, they did have a arrangement with NATE and sold quite a lot in their native market of Korea but that's no longer the case. They also stopped selling via their old vendors. Only the YP3700 is available, the other machines including the YP3500 are the ones which are discontinued. Gmate are working on some new things including a GSM jacket, an evaluation model should be with us soon. As to whether Gmate will make future Linux handhelds is another matter. My next machine will probably be an Archos or something, but that's a long way off. YopyPDA also develop hardware including a robotics kit which I really like, I've got some cool pics of a robot with a Yopy brain.
Our little user group which I'm co-admin of is separate from the Korean group and is growing every day. I really like the machine, it's just what I was after really, it's very Battlestar Galactica with the whoosh-whoosh LEDs, it appeals to the sci-fi fan within me ;-) It won't appeal to everyone and the Zaurus is a more user friendly machine out of the box. But Qtopia is installed quickly and that's where the most activity is ;-)
I'm glad this forum has expanded to include other embedded Linux devices, I will drop by from time to time now, provided things don't descend into the 'my machine is better than yours' mentality, if this new forum is to work we have to embrace the diversity within the greater community. I hope this is of some use, feel free to ask any questions ;-)
Take care all and my sincerest thanks to everyone who's PM'd me. ;-)
Long live the fighters! Long live Linux! Long live Trolltech!
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anyone voting to merge Yopi forum into the OESF?
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Good Idea!
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Maybe one day ;-) The common platform seems to be Qtopia but not all Yopy users like it or use it, but for those of us that do, this site is a good resource. I could put a link on YLUG to here I suppose.
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Not all Zaurus ROMs use Qtopia. There are pdaXrom users here too.
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Maybe one day ;-) The common platform seems to be Qtopia but not all Yopy users like it or use it, but for those of us that do, this site is a good resource. I could put a link on YLUG to here I suppose.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=66777\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Sounds like the machine would *really* put the hurtin' on t'other end if launched from that trusty old trebuchet (runs, duck & cover - serpentine! serpentine! G).
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Sounds like the machine would *really* put the hurtin' on t'other end if launched from that trusty old trebuchet (runs, duck & cover - serpentine! serpentine! G).
My good friend, I'm wheeling the ol' girl out now ;-) I've a hankering for an ol' fashioned Flame War, or was it 'opium den' discussions ;-)
Aim... FIRE!!
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Not all Zaurus ROMs use Qtopia. There are pdaXrom users here too.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=66786\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
As for that it's the choice of individual Yopy users if they wish to sign up here, I'm not going to advocate any merger any time soon. ;-)
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Hail Emperor! Nice new avatar! Thanks for the great (& detailed) info!
P.S. How's that dancing homer working out? Oh yeah and the Cylon Tux app I did for ya?
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Hail Emperor! Nice new avatar! Thanks for the great (& detailed) info!
P.S. How's that dancing homer working out? Oh yeah and the Cylon Tux app I did for ya?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=66849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
HELLO!
I've just been going through my archive of Z apps and moving some files about on my handheld, I was going to test them tonight ;-) Most stuff works ok but I've had trouble with one or two in the past.
Yeah, they were great ;-) I am still in your debt..
LOL! Dancing Homer - I can't believe you *actually* made one for me ;-) Did you ever upload 'em?
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I'm very interested in a Yopy, (no money for it at the moment), and I was wondering if the upcoming OpenYopy (or whatever it's called, forget now) will come with just the GUI that wins the polls, or more then one? Personally, I'd prefer X11, and voted so, but after fiddling with Opie, going back to Qtopia feels like a downgrade, personally. Qtopia appears to be winning the polls. As for merging the sites, I'd personally love that. It would aid in development on both sides, increase interest on both sides, and generally make the forums a larger, better place. I can't really picture competitions (Which line is better) arrising at all, it doesn't seem to me like something that would happen here. EDIT: Wait, looks about even now between X11 and Qtopia.
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"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67344\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Reminds me of a Utah Phillips' saying:
"If the Lord had meant for us to hold elections, He would have given us CANDIDATES!"
Myself, I am of the opinion that anyone who WANTS the job is morally or ethically unfit to assume it. We ought to DRAFT the most qualified individual; and the more they complain & protest, the more likely that we have selected the best person for the job.
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I'm very interested in a Yopy, (no money for it at the moment), and I was wondering if the upcoming OpenYopy (or whatever it's called, forget now) will come with just the GUI that wins the polls, or more then one? Personally, I'd prefer X11, and voted so, but after fiddling with Opie, going back to Qtopia feels like a downgrade, personally. Qtopia appears to be winning the polls. As for merging the sites, I'd personally love that. It would aid in development on both sides, increase interest on both sides, and generally make the forums a larger, better place. I can't really picture competitions (Which line is better) arrising at all, it doesn't seem to me like something that would happen here. EDIT: Wait, looks about even now between X11 and Qtopia.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67344\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
YopyNG ran a poll themselves, I think the outcome was pretty closely split down the middle between a pure X11 and a pure Qtopia system. I think they'll do the kernel and base the filesystem on the Gmate one for the sake of compatibility, that's what's happening with their interim releases. But that's not definitive, just a guess.
The poll I'm running is really to ask the question independently of the choices YopyNG asked and are a bit broader. It's split between the kind of outcome YopyNG are working on and OpenEmbedded. I did write to the OE chaps a while ago asking about how to proceed since the Yopy developer info they referred to on their site was obsolete but they did not reply, so.. I did dabble with Opie when I had a Z, I wasn't impressed and there were too many problems with it. I found if I raised an issue, the bulk standard attitude was go fix it yourself - which is not helpful, only Simon (Lardman) seemed to want to help. In the final analysis, we're talking about providing a platform for running X apps which the current fs and any derivative provides and Qtopia apps which I think Qtopia 1.7 is best suited to. Otfried ported it and although I am looking into Qtopia 2.1, I doubt I could improve on what he did. Also there is one great thing about the Qtopia we have at the moment, no faffing about with heart attack inducing flashing of the device, it's an application which takes a few taps of a stylus to install.
As for merging our site with this one, I'm not in favor of it at all. Our site is really a small group which has a singular focus on the Yopy, this one is still dominated by the Zaurus which has a huge membership compared to our fifty or so. Our aim is to be a small friendly group just for Yopy users and nothing else where we can chat, share apps and ask questions. Individual users are free to sign up here if they want - there's no problem with that. Although I cannot speak for the other admin of YLUG, I've no interest nor do I see any benefit to Yopy users in doing away with our site and moving them here. If over time I see more iPaq and Simpad users here, maybe Archos too, then I'd reconsider and recommend it to the members, I'm not the boss so I will put it to the site owner but my view is a firm "no". The biggest Yopy user site is Korean so the language barrier would be a problem.
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Myself, I am of the opinion that anyone who WANTS the job is morally or ethically unfit to assume it. We ought to DRAFT the most qualified individual; and the more they complain & protest, the more likely that we have selected the best person for the job.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Pah! We need a Padishah Emperor ;-)
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As an update to the question of any merger, I did speak to the owner of YLUG and he agrees with me on this.
However he says if the owner of this site - and I don't even know who runs OE Forums nowdays - wants to create a Yopy category which links direct to us, we will be happy to reciprocate and happily co-operate for the common cause and encourage users to move back and forth. But for our fellow Yopyians having a dedicated site and resources as well as the time we put into it is far more beneficial than any merger into a forum like the Simpad one. I hope that clarifies it ;-)
So if the OE Forum admin(s) want to do this and PM me then we're happy to do this. ;-)
But I'm not holding my breath
I want to see iPaq, Agenda, Simpad and other Linux handheld users coming here, if I can do anything for that objective then I'd be glad to help. This is still a Z dominated site, I assume there was dialogue in opening up the site to more users, if someone can point me to those posts/etc I'd be interested to read them.
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Hail Emperor! Nice new avatar! Thanks for the great (& detailed) info!
P.S. How's that dancing homer working out? Oh yeah and the Cylon Tux app I did for ya?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=66849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Alas they don't work
Error: Could not play movie "ctux" I wonder if it's because I'm on Qtopia 1.7?
I'm also attaching a screenshot of my setup for anyone who is curious.
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Hmm. It's not even a movie, but it is just an animated GIF.
I'm built it using qtopia-free-1.7.0-2rh9.i386.rpm, but only have
qpe-libqtopia_1.6.0-13_arm.ipk running on my 5500 with the original Sharp ROM.
Are you saying you tried the Z apps on the Yopy and they don't work? Maybe it is just an install problem with where the GIF and WAV files get placed.
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Back from the dead....
Yopy YP3700, 1GB Microdrive, 64MB MMC
Linupy 2.1.0 Embedded Linux, T6 filesystem
X11 & Qtopia 1.7 running under X.
padishah_emperor, What is T6 Filesystem? Is it something we could be intrerested in?
- Andy
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Hi Padishah_emperor,
Nice to see you back.
I did write to the OE chaps a while ago asking about how to proceed since the Yopy developer info they referred to on their site was obsolete but they did not reply, so.. I did dabble with Opie when I had a Z, I wasn't impressed and there were too many problems with it. I found if I raised an issue, the bulk standard attitude was go fix it yourself - which is not helpful, only Simon (Lardman) seemed to want to help.
There were issues with regard to moving stuff over (the very few people that wer working on it were overworked), I'd say the situation is significantly better now.
My understanding is that it's a fairly simple process to add a new machine to OE; if nothing else it gives you another option, plus a nice and easy-to-use setup and loads of apps (2000+ atm).
I see that the link to yopy.org is broken, I'm not quite sure what the status of the Yopy in OE is. Assuming it still needs some work, there have been a fair few new machines added (see http://openembedded.org/success.php (http://openembedded.org/success.php) or look in the packages/linux directory at the number of different kernels for different machines). I presume that the required basic machine info and the kernel source are available so it someone from your group is interested in picking it up I'd be happy to do what I can to help and obtain info.
Si
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Hmm. It's not even a movie, but it is just an animated GIF.
I'm built it using qtopia-free-1.7.0-2rh9.i386.rpm, but only have
qpe-libqtopia_1.6.0-13_arm.ipk running on my 5500 with the original Sharp ROM.
Are you saying you tried the Z apps on the Yopy and they don't work? Maybe it is just an install problem with where the GIF and WAV files get placed.
Hi Doc, I'm sure you're right, I'll take a look later I've had a few things which needed a wee tweek to work ;-) I'll make it my mission to find out. I must have the Cylon back!!
By your command..
padishah_emperor, What is T6 Filesystem? Is it something we could be intrerested in?
Hi Andy, I don't think it will be ;-) It's a Gmate filesystem release for the Yopy.
-Francis-
I see that the link to yopy.org is broken, I'm not quite sure what the status of the Yopy in OE is. Assuming it still needs some work, there have been a fair few new machines added (see http://openembedded.org/success.php (http://openembedded.org/success.php) or look in the packages/linux directory at the number of different kernels for different machines). I presume that the required basic machine info and the kernel source are available so it someone from your group is interested in picking it up I'd be happy to do what I can to help and obtain info.
Hi Simon, nice to see you're still here and fighting the good fight ;-)
I'd be willing to give OE a shot, like I said before I did write to them using the contact link on the OE site but I didn't get any reply so I thought 'stuff it' to be honest But I've got a lot coming up including upgrading the kit we have here and moving it all over to Mac so my time is going be spent making sure my business can still operate. The kernel sources are available but YopyNG are working on a new kernel, it may be wise to wait and see what happens with that before commiting to anything. The poll we're running does seem to favour both X and OE based systems equally. My only gripe would be that Yopy users by going down the OE route will loose X which so many Z users are after
Time will tell, my personal preference is for the new kernel YopyNG are doing a Gmate derived fs with X and minimal apps - no PIMs and Qtopia 2.1 running like Qtopia 1.7 does now. Then users can add PIMs and apps to MMC or CF etc as desired.
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padishah_emperor, What is T6 Filesystem? Is it something we could be intrerested in?
Hi Andy, I don't think it will be ;-) It's a Gmate filesystem release for the Yopy.
-Francis-
OK, sounded like an actual new filesystem type to me. That's why I hadn't heard of it
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OK, sounded like an actual new filesystem type to me. That's why I hadn't heard of it
LOL! Afraid not.
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The poll we're running does seem to favour both X and OE based systems equally. My only gripe would be that Yopy users by going down the OE route will loose X which so many Z users are after
OE (actually it's now been renamed BitBake, OpenEmbedded is the name of the config files used to build for ARM embedded devices) is simply a build system, nothing more. It doesn't choose what kind of Windowing system you use (for want of a better word). Opie and GPE (which is simply X11 using matchbox as the WM) are both available as options, or you can choose a console only build.
These various options are implemented by creating a meta file which says "add this package to the ROM image", etc. Therefore it is very simple to change matchbox for a different WM, etc. and to add in whatever else a yopy should come with.
Therefore, assuming you add in the various bits of software which aren't in there already and which you need to use, you could create whatever type of system you wanted (automatically - which is the nice thing). From the screeshots I've seen, the yopy has a WM a bit like matchbox, assuming the code's about this could be added in and used.
I saw a poll on yopyng which was asking people to vote between Qtopia, Opie, GPE or Standard X11. ROM images for all of these options could be built using OE.
Si
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Thanks lardman, we really need to hammer it into people's minds that OpenEmbedded is neither device nor distribution specific, let alone X or framebuffer or whatever.
I think someone should make a xfce-image as 3rd GUI option for OpenZaurus, maybe then people will start to understand.
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Sorry I should have been clearer. By referring the X environment I was meaning the Gmate filesystem as is with some drop-in updates which is supposed to be quite straight forward according to other's I've spoken to.
I was referring to OE only in the specific context of building Opie - that is possible isn't it? or am I not getting it? :-)
As for YopyNG I'm not involved in it, so I don't know what they use. But if I was going to have a go at *any* of this I'd wait until I know what YopyNG are planning or I could end up just repeating what others are doing.
I'd be more inclined to dabble and experiment if I had a second machine, but I actually *use* it heavily, so I can't afford any real downtime on this device. No ebooks or Oggs and I'd go mad, or start watching Sky One. It's a good reason to petition the ball-n-chain for a second one...
-Francis- ;-)
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I was referring to OE only in the specific context of building Opie - that is possible isn't it?
Oh yes, that's possible, but it's just one of a number of different possibilities.
Sorry I should have been clearer. By referring the X environment I was meaning the Gmate filesystem as is with some drop-in updates which is supposed to be quite straight forward according to other's I've spoken to.
No my fault, I don't know enough about the yopy. that said, if the sources are available they could be added to BB/OE and you could produce that type of image using BB/OE to build it.
Si
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No my fault, I don't know enough about the yopy. that said, if the sources are available they could be added to BB/OE and you could produce that type of image using BB/OE to build it.
Yep, maybe that's what YopyNG ARE doing. Curiousity means I'll have to ask now :-)
Is there a good comprehensive guide on this I could read, maybe something I could copy onto my Yopy for some light bedtime reading ;-) It's an interesting area I'd like to explore at some point, but I need to read up a bit more and know exactly what I'm getting into.
Actually someone has anonymously posted on YLUG that it's quite easy to use OE and pointed to a site, once I get my Mac sorted, Virtual PC and JDS on it, I'll have a go setting it all up. Any initial pointers to guides would be appreciated. Thanks for weighing in on this Si ;-)
-Francis