OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: handheld-linux on May 25, 2005, 11:27:00 am
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Nokia has announced a new Linux based PDA (Internet Tablet).
Key features:
* 640x800 display, 4.13 inch (slightly larger than Zaurus Cx000)
* 141x79x19 mm (slightly larger but thinner)
* 230g (less weight)
* touch
* NO QWERTY
* integrated WLAN and Bluetooth
* processor unclear
* 1500mAh battery (3h operation, 7 days standby)
* Linux (seems to be Debian)
* uses X-Server and GTK
* own development platform www.maemo.org
* availablility seems to be 3Q 2005 (i.e. September)
* price is rumoured to be 400 EUR (indicating availability in Europe)
I have set up an info page: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=770 (http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=770)
Nikolaus
Here is a FAQ page: http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75108,00.html (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75108,00.html)
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hmm they use the matchbox window manager, but not gpe
Processor will be an arm ("Building ARM packages to maemo devices ")
"Open Embedded Integration" is on the roadmap
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They announced this at the LinuxWorld in New York - maybe that also indicated a US release.
More details here at Infosync (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5991.html).
I was quite surprised Nokia going the Linux way. But as usual its handicapped in certain ways - no keyboard and no CF expandibility.
Features I like - Bluetooth offers profiles for connectivity to Nokia phones (and maybe others too), file transfer etc (no crippled BT here) and it does say USB connectivity to PC (not sure if USB host is there).
I read the infosync site saying 4" screen, maybe thats incorrect.
But just 64 MB RAM ? Thats it ?
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It says on the Nokia site that it's not yet compatible with USB keyboards which would imply that it's got USB host.....it's just not implemented in software.
Could be reading too much into it though.
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The most interesting thing I saw was that it is shipping with a Flash 6 player.
http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html)
It's compiled for linux ARM. Very interesting...
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http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html)
And did you see the Supported File Formats?
Audio: MP3, Real Audio, MPEG4, AAC, WAV, AMR, MP2
Image: JPEG, GIF, BMP, TIFF, PNG, Animated GIF format,
SVG-tiny, ICO
Video: MPEG1, MPEG4, Real Video, H.263, AVI, 3GP
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<flame-bait>Too bad the ui is gnome based</flame-bait>
Maybe is they opensource the ui it could be added to oe, might be interesting to run it on the c1000. Now if they had based it on opie...
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Nokia has announced a new Linux based PDA (Internet Tablet).
Key features:
* 640x800 display, 4.13 inch (slightly larger than Zaurus Cx000)
* 141x79x19 mm (slightly larger but thinner)
* 230g (less weight)
* touch
* NO QWERTY
* integrated WLAN and Bluetooth
* processor unclear
* 1500mAh battery (3h operation, 7 days standby)
* Linux (seems to be Debian)
* uses X-Server and GTK
* own development platform www.maemo.org
* availablility seems to be 3Q 2005 (i.e. September)
* price is rumoured to be 400 EUR (indicating availability in Europe)
I have set up an info page: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=770 (http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=770)
Nikolaus
Here is a FAQ page: http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75108,00.html (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75108,00.html)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81446\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
This is exactly the direction the next Zaurus clamshell should go....a wireless multi-media platform (WiMP ??). Well, the acronym falls short but a SL-C3000 with 802.11g & BT built-in and better video playback would blow this thing away, not to mention the host of available software.
Let's go Sharp! The competition is about to overtake you.
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<flame-bait>Too bad the ui is gnome based</flame-bait>
Maybe is they opensource the ui it could be added to oe, might be interesting to run it on the c1000. Now if they had based it on opie...
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=81475\")
Build opie with QT/X11 and you can run it without messing to much with the device.
GPE allready runs on it: [a href=\"http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/]http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/[/url] .
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The Inq is reporting that it will cost only $349! Sounds too cheap for the great screen and features. 400 €uros sounds more like it, but lets hope it's less.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23494 (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23494)
Sounds like a good device, and apparently it has a TI OMAP Processor (http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11991&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_1710)
Just slap on a keyboard and camera and it's almost perfect! Maybe Sharp needs to stay sharp if it's not to loose out.
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Hmmmm.... I think i might keep more of an eye on nokia
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I don't think Sharp is that worried, since this doesn't seem to be slated for the Asian (Japanese markets) where Sharp is focussing.
And the Japsnese and Asians like keyboards a lot (even on phones), hence the popularity of SMS out there - so something without a keyboard might not cust mustard with the discerning Asian market.
Now in the US market its a whole different equation. People might be content to buy this thing if only for movie playback and Audio (what with the multiple formats its supporting). But if Sharp were to reconsider the US markets again, then they had better spruce up their (US/Europe) act.
Apart from the bigger screen and Wifi/BT, I don't see what extras it brings that the Zaurus doesnt.
just my 2 cents here
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Apart from the bigger screen and Wifi/BT, I don't see what extras it brings that the Zaurus doesnt.
Those alone make it worth considering for me! Also, it adds a Mic, decent video support, Flash Player 6, internet radio streaming (So, mainly software benefits) and it's thinner.
Not sure about PIM though?
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Apart from the bigger screen and Wifi/BT, I don't see what extras it brings that the Zaurus doesnt.
Those alone make it worth considering for me! Also, it adds a Mic, decent video support, Flash Player 6, internet radio streaming (So, mainly software benefits) and it's thinner.
Not sure about PIM though?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81494\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
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But...
my 6k already does internet radio streaming(I only checked shoutcast ,but I guess that's good enough)
the existence of their flash player might well mean one we can use in the near future.
I'm ok with my video playback.
basically --it is a step in the right direction. I wouldn't trade my 6k for it... but i might find myself buying my next handheld from nokia instead of sharp--if nokia learns faster than sharp does.
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Apart from the bigger screen and Wifi/BT, I don't see what extras it brings that the Zaurus doesnt.
Those alone make it worth considering for me! Also, it adds a Mic, decent video support, Flash Player 6, internet radio streaming (So, mainly software benefits) and it's thinner.
No need for a keyboard?
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this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/25/nokia_wifi_tablet/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/25/nokia_wifi_tablet/)
claims that the browser will be opera.
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Very interesting specififcation but no keyboard! It's realy an issue.
As a PDA, it's amazing. Linux + good spec + big screen + Nokia + availability/support in US/EU...
The CF and/or SD-IO slot are missing to be able to reuse old cards thought.
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The keyboard issue makes it less of a direct competitor to the Zaurus and more of a "lifestyle" choice.
I personally couldn't now consider a Linux PDA without a keyboard after using the Z, however I'm sure that many people looking for a portable media center will lap this up.
I wonder if there is any plans for some kind of Video output, that would make for a very interesting and discrete "living room media solution".
Tread carefully Nokia, we are watching with interest.
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this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/25/nokia_wifi_tablet/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/25/nokia_wifi_tablet/)
claims that the browser will be opera.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81562\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It's opera based. I suspect they'll switch to webcore when it's stable enough.
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The keyboard issue makes it less of a direct competitor to the Zaurus and more of a "lifestyle" choice.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Exactly - I agree - its more of a "Lifestyle" device rather than a Linux based Laptop replacement - where the Zaurus is headed.
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I like this device. Big screen, with WiFi, and the most important is great price. I'm thinking to wait for it and buy one. Gave up my decision of buying one 600~700$ C3000.
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Maybe a good choice; it does look really great. If you're going to use it as a PDA, you might need to check that there's a synchronisable personal information manager available. It's not supposed to be a PDA (According to nokia), but with some slight modifications (Maybe less wide, keyboard), it could be the closest thing to a viable 'laptop replacement' PDA available.
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Hi,
I don't if it has been said already but the CPU appears to be only 220MHz and the RS-MMC card is limited to a maximum capacity of 256MB.
See ZDNet (http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Nokia_N770_Internet_Tablet/4505-3127_16-31396042-2.html) and Linuxdevice.com (http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5409534614.html)
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I don't if it has been said already but the CPU appears to be only 220MHz and the RS-MMC card is limited to a maximum capacity of 256MB.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81761\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Keep in mind that the video and audio stuff runs on the lightningfast DSP, so it probably beats any zaurus in video performance.
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http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000750044526/ (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000750044526/)
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Once KDE PIM PI gets on there, then this is a strong candidate for my next new gadget. It's relatively cheap (under the clearance price of a 6000L)!
I'm still waiting though, for a clamshell with wifi, BT and wireless integrated for my ultimate personal mobile tool. I can't wait to see what the summer may bring.
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This sort of thing will really come into it's own when Wi-Max or a similar technology becomes widespread, then people can always have a functional internet connection with them (3G etc is currently too expensive for most people to use it much, e.g. streaming web Radio for an hour would not be cheap!).
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I'm still trying to get a grasp of how small or large this thing will be. Is it similar in size to a 6000? The sceen is larger than a 6000's, but it should be slightly smaller without a keyboard. Maybe not by much since it has the dpad. Similar thickness to a 6000? I guess it is too big for real pocket device.
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I'm still trying to get a grasp of how small or large this thing will be.
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5991.html (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5991.html)
"141 x 79 x 19 mm and at a weight of 230 g, Nokia claims a browsing time of up to 3 hours and standby time of up to 7 days from the 1500 mAh"
more photos
http://www.infosyncworld.com/productguide/...type=p&number=3 (http://www.infosyncworld.com/productguide/image.php?manufacturer=Nokia&name=Nokia%20770%20Internet%20Tablet&image_type=p&number=3)
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It says on the Nokia site that it's not yet compatible with USB keyboards which would imply that it's got USB host.....it's just not implemented in software.
Could be reading too much into it though.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81465\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yes, that is the main question for me too. It does say "USB device mode" in various places though, but if it can be made to support a USB keyboard in software, then it definitely would become a potentially interesting widget -- not so much as a PDA replacement for my Z, but for home use : considering the nice screen and built-in Wifi, by adding a keyboard and a rdp or vnc client it becomes a cheap substitute for those Windows "Smart Displays" (Mira) that MS floated then abandoned a couple of years ago. The concept didn't fly because of the 1000/2000$ price points of the ViewSonic Airpanels and the like (which were otherwise useless by themselves), but at 400$ with dual purpose (smart display + builtin functionality) it becomes more attractive... Maybe not what Nokia had in mind though :-)
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bluetooth keyboards ????
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Hats off to Nokia for using 2.6 kernel and well established debian distro. That's what Sharp should have done in the first place with C3K/C1K release instead of continuing agony with its dirty hacks on obsolete 2.4 kernel. Intel ships 2.6.9 with its pxa27x development board, and there's no reason to cook something under the table anymore.
I hope Nokia won't do Sharp's mistakes and will follow open source development.
-albertr
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Ha! That's what I use the 6000 for today while it webserving too! I just hope it doesn't turn out to only do limited colours like the archos
... considering the nice screen and built-in Wifi, by adding a keyboard and a rdp or vnc client it becomes a cheap substitute for those Windows "Smart Displays" (Mira) that MS floated then abandoned a couple of years ago.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81824\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
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It says on the Nokia site that it's not yet compatible with USB keyboards which would imply that it's got USB host.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81465\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yes, that is the main question for me too. It does say "USB device mode" in various places though, but if it can be made to support a USB keyboard in software
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81824\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
er, it's got bluetooth, and you'd not want to fiddle with cables, you'd use a bluetooth keyboard, surely?
the biggest gripe, for me, is expansion's only MMC card, at the very least it should have been SD/SDIO or better yet CF.
maybe it's MMC like the Z is MMC, i.e. it can use SD cards in MMC mode, because of the lack of SD/SDIO drivers for linux?
at this price, there's going to be a few Zaurians trying them out, so we'll discover in due course what it's really like.
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doesn't bluetooth drain more power than using a USB keyboard (non lit)?
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I saw this thing on engadget as well. It's interesting alright. It's intro price blows any Zaurus's debut out of the water.
The lack of CF or SD is kinda worrisome though. I would guess most of us are already fairly heavily invested in SD and CF cards, but for this thing we'll have to go get RS-MMC...
The anemic processor is another area to watch, a NEW handheld debuting at only 220mhz in a world where 300mhz - 624mhz is the order of the day seems an odd choice. But the SL-5500 can play AVI and MPEG passibly, so if this thing is tweaked well in it's software it should do fine...
As for the keyboard...I agree. *I* would want one, probably anyone reading this thread would want one, but the target demographic for this device doesn't seem to be the shade tree hacker and hobbyist that is likely any of *us*. It's more of the point and shoot crowd, so I can see how the keyboard got 86'd on the design table.
I still don't see though, why Nexio style KB's aren't more popular. If the design were slightly improved (I'd say add a foldout stand on the back of the unit so it can stand up while the keyboard is in use without the docking station)it could work well. And it could be sold as an accessory so the stylus lovers wouldn't have to pay for it if they didn't want to.
I suppose an OQO style slider would work too, but the unit would have to be much thicker...
All said, it does still look like an interesting device to keep one's eye on...
I'l pick one up when they hit $100 on eBay 1 - 3 years from now depending on their success. I could leave it in the glovebox of my car and always have something to do...
Also, I agree with the earlier comment...once wimax or whatever ubiquitous wireless standard finally gets implemented, devices such as these will be as common as cell phones (seen anyone use one of those today ?) and it's a smart move on Nokia's part to make a few little inroads into that market and test out the waters...
About the comment concerning this devices being targeted more at the western market.
DEFINITELY....
I was mildly shocked to notice that NO asian languages are to be natively supported.
So I guess this is yet more evidense that this is not designed to compete with the Zaurus.
Yet...
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I dont know if this is feasible or is it like counting the chickens before they are hatched, but
"Gordon (Shawn) adds that TheKompany may also port its applications to the OMAP-based Nokia 770 announced yesterday."
from this link (http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8667377116.html)
Does that mean that the Nokia device will have support got QT based apps too ?
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The anemic processor is another area to watch, a NEW handheld debuting at only 220mhz in a world where 300mhz - 624mhz is the order of the day seems an odd choice. But the SL-5500 can play AVI and MPEG passibly, so if this thing is tweaked well in it's software it should do fine...
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=81839\")
Like I said before: audio and video codecs run on the DSP. See [a href=\"http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/]http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/[/url] for some more info
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thanks nilch. that link pointed me to this picture
http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/nokia_7...net_tablet4.jpg (http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/nokia_770_internet_tablet4.jpg)
either big hands or small device.
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I'm giving some thought to picking one up just to help keep sales going to make the next version
Seriously: The right OS. a dsp. a very good choicke of screen res.... if the thing had better storage and a keyboard.....and usb..it would be PERFECT.
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There are some more "in the hand" photos of the device here. (http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/0,2394,pg=0&s=1493&a=152792,00.asp)
Plus there's another (negetive) review here. (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,,1820232,00.asp)
About the design - the thing slides on the sides to reveal some sort of a port or something. What port is that ?
Also, if they did incorporate a sliding device, why the hell couldnt they fit in a keyboard of some sort under the sliding mechanism ? That would have been great. Instead the who slide-out area seems to be blank except for a lone small port. Is that some sort of future expandibility feature they have left in intentionally ?
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bluetooth keyboards ????
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, if given a choice, I'd rather take my pick amongst a few hundred USB keyboards of all sizes and shapes costing at most 30 euros, than from a handful of bluetooth minikeyboards all above a hundred... And if a short USB cable means one less battery to care about, then I prefer that, too. But that's just me
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It says on slide 20 (got to linux devices article) that a number of improvements were made to jffs file system for OMAPI to give it a faster boot time. Wonder if these changes would be suitable for the Zaurus.
There are two things that puzzle me about this device, one software and the other hardware. On the software side why did Nokia avoid QT, especially since Trolltech is also a Norwegian company. Could it have been cost issues, or being that this is a multimedia device were there performance issues with QT.
The hardware puzzle is that I read this is based on the OMAPI1710 which supports both USB hosting and USB client, so why did Nokia only supply the client interface ( power conservation ?)
Here is a diagram of the OMAPI1710 from TI's website: OMAP 1710 (http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11991&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_1710)
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Like I said before: audio and video codecs run on the DSP. See http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/ (http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/) for some more info
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thanks 'Koen'. I sorta meant the reference to the software being done right as a nod to your comment (I probably should have been more explicit).
But many thanks for the link...I was curious what this 'DSP' thing was and that link was quite informative.
Don't get me wrong, I know raw comparative numbers don't always tell the whole story. Case in point RISC vs. CISC. And I know the slower/older processor probably saves money and prolongs battery life.
But as far as it being 'anemic'...well, I suppose that discriptive term says more about ME than it does about the processor (basically, I'm insatiable when in comes to clock ticks ).
It's definitely and interesting looking device...
Thanks again!
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It says on slide 20 (got to linux devices article) that a number of improvements were made to jffs file system for OMAPI to give it a faster boot time. Wonder if these changes would be suitable for the Zaurus.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81880\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The OZ 2.6 kernels for clamshells already contain such tweaks for jffs2
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This thing combined to google-style minimalistic and powerful webapps could be really, really killer (bluetooth GPS puck + google maps = yum). That screen looks awfully nice, too.
Nokia already makes a bluetooth keyboard, but of course that thing doesn't support the Bluetooth HID profile (someone wasn't thinking).
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I' thinking more and more about it
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I'll definitly try to get hold of one. This will make a nice Wellenreiter (http://www.vanille.de/projects/wellenreiter.html) device
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I'm going to wait and read the early reviews, and wait till someone opens one up to see if they can be hacked to add more memory.
Knowing Nokia, they'll bring out an "i" version quite soon which fix the deficiencies of the first version. I am surprised they made such a device - the Simpad hasn't exactly been a roaring success across the whole of Europe, and the Nokia 770 isn't really different in functionality, just in size and spec?
Give it a little while and pick one up cheap on ebay. That's what I'll be doing if they turn out to be any good.
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Posted about it on my blog (http://bbshuffle.blogspot.com/2005/06/nokia-770.html), and I'm going to make a front page entry as well.
It's basically a slower high-end Axim, with a better screen. Cheaper than the Axims and Co, too, though not intended to hit the shelves before Q3.
I'm really wondering what the intended use-case is; what the hell are you supposed to do with it? They sell it as a second PC replacement, intended for browsing and email, but the problem is that email just isn't very fun without a keyboard (forget about IM without totally integrated handwriting on a kickass digitizer), and brosing on a low-power device is painful: difficult to replicate the desktop browsing experience when you've got so little to play with.
The Nokia site shows 3 use cases actually, and it's not pretty: checking stock quotes and the TV guide (without a keyboard, and on the current TV stations' websites? Enjoy!), looking for recipes and the weather forecast before a picnic, which might work, and multimedia mail and internet radio in an airport lounge. Mail I've commented on above (you can't really reply, and there's no synchronizable mail/todo list to remind you to), IP radio might work, but it'll die in the plane.
I haven't looked at it in details, but it seems Nokia did a good job on a totally open OS+application stack: any compliant device can run the whole suite. Now, would someone please put it in a device that actually serves a purpose? More than one use would be perfect: hello dreamphone.
The last thing is desktop integration: the iPod is so popular because the desktop software's decent. If you intend on selling a multimedia device (the 770's got a DSP), you need good PC software to manage your digital library, and export to the gizmo (and not only tunes, email and bookmarks also come to mind). Nokia makes a notoriously bad PC suite for its current phones, which worries me.
In my opinion they lack a killer (web-) app. If they can provide google-style simplistic and uberpowerful web tools in addition to the usual client-side PocketPC apps like navigation (with a bluetooth GPS puck), this might work.
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The most interesting thing I saw was that it is shipping with a Flash 6 player.
http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html)
It's compiled for linux ARM. Very interesting...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
i dont know about you but i can view flash 6 under qonqueror on a linux pc. not sure what you meant by that. its easy to set up.
on a different note, they screwed up the design. How am i suppose to make this an nes game system if there are no buttons for my thumb on the right side? it would be more productive to have buttons on both sides of the device and especially for gaming.
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The most interesting thing I saw was that it is shipping with a Flash 6 player.
http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,75023,00.html)
It's compiled for linux ARM. Very interesting...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
i dont know about you but i can view flash 6 under qonqueror on a linux pc. not sure what you meant by that. its easy to set up.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82510\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
You can use flash under linux on an x86 desktop, but you sure as heck can't view flash under linux on a Strongarm or XScale processor.
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you do not know the powah of the dsp......yes, yes... feeel the multimedia
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Also, if they did incorporate a sliding device, why the hell couldnt they fit in a keyboard of some sort under the sliding mechanism ? That would have been great. Instead the who slide-out area seems to be blank except for a lone small port. Is that some sort of future expandibility feature they have left in intentionally ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The silver part is a device cover. It's just a big hunk of plastic with a port-extender, you can remove it from the device, then turn it 180 degrees and slip it back on, and it will cover the screen (a bit like scientific calculators have now).
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I wonder why they went with the half sized mmc cards?
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I wonder why they went with the half sized mmc cards?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I guess the Half sized MMC slot would make it easier to design a smaller package.
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I wonder why they went with the half sized mmc cards?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I guess the Half sized MMC slot would make it easier to design a smaller package.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83267\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
maybe it consumes less power
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I wonder why they went with the half sized mmc cards?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The device itself is quite thin. And they've been biulding the readers into mobile phones for a while, so they know how to do that as well.
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Linux Journal recently conducted a brief interview with a Nokia representative about the 770. Doesn't say much new but gives a little insight into why they didn't add GSM/tri-band to the device and most likely won't for future variants:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8351 (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8351)
A little slapdown from Nokia on commercial distros, stating they "need work" and calling them "middle men".
"For a device such as the 770, one is concerned with the input and the output. The output is beautiful. We have the challenge to improve the input."
Umm, integrate a keyboard?
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A little slapdown from Nokia on commercial distros, stating they "need work" and calling them "middle men".
He was referring to the embedded distro's, and he's right. If you need to contract Trolltech to do anything but driver development, they haven't done their job 100%.
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Umm, paired with bluetooth GPS receiver, that could make a nice GPS navigation device. Only if there's good navigation software/maps available.
-albertr
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How good is good???
qpeGPS is good for me even though its not got he "Turn left an the next..." type of functionality It does what it says on the tin and allows good bitmap maps to be used at multiple scales Also works off shore not just a road GPS system.
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How good is good???
qpeGPS is good for me even though its not got he "Turn left an the next..." type of functionality It does what it says on the tin and allows good bitmap maps to be used at multiple scales Also works off shore not just a road GPS system.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83344\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
gpsdrive, roadmap or roadster would be better options, since the 770 runs X and not qtopia
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Here's (http://www.mobilepipeline.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=F5GFRBPU5NDRYQSNDBGCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleId=164302869&pgno=2) a hands-on spin of the preview version of the 770.
By the review, seems to be a tad slow for apps to start up... but can be ironed out (according to Nokia).
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It seems Q4 is coming, and still no 770.
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It seems Q4 is coming, and still no 770.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well,
Nokia might start on next Friday...
-- hns
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It seems Q4 is coming, and still no 770.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=96952\")
It doesn't use QT, does it?
[a href=\"http://www.mobilepipeline.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=F5GFRBPU5NDRYQSNDBGCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleId=164302869&pgno=2]Here's [/url] a hands-on spin of the preview version of the 770.
Thanks for the link
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It doesn't use QT, does it?
No. There was some flame-war on the developer mailing list on the benefit of a different system.
Let't see when the fist Qt will be available by a third party and how it compares.
Another option is to put QuantumSTEP (a MacOS X-like GUI toolkit) on it (it comes with an X11 server). So, I am also waiting for devices to become available.
-- hns
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I don't know where I heard this, but I heard that the public release was pushed back to Q4 2005, and the developers got them in September, this September.
Anyways, is 200 MHz enough for PDA tasks? PIM, Light Games (Doom), Multimedia, mabye some coding in python or whatever, can it handle that kinda stuff?
Oh and I found another preview:
HowardChui's Nokia 770 preview (http://www.howardchui.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=203)
Happy Hunting
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It doesn't use QT, does it?
No. There was some flame-war on the developer mailing list on the benefit of a different system.
Let't see when the fist Qt will be available by a third party and how it compares.
Another option is to put QuantumSTEP (a MacOS X-like GUI toolkit) on it (it comes with an X11 server). So, I am also waiting for devices to become available.
-- hns
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Right or wrong Qtopia seems to be the kiss of death for Linux hardware
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s/Qtopia/any software from SW vendors who are more interested in selling customized environments to HW vendors instead of being comitted to a platform and playing with open cards/
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RS-MMC card is limited to a maximum capacity of 256MB.
Why should RS-MMC limited to 256MB? 1 GB RS-MMC already exist.
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Yes, a keyboard would be very nice, but I like the ability to write in cursive writing anywhere on the screen which I have on my Simpad SL4. It's much faster and easier input than thumb typing on a keyboard. You can write at any slant and at any place on the screen. The speed of the Nokia chip would make the handwriting recognition just fly. The Nokia is billed as a "tablet" but I don't see anywhere in its literature or reviews online that it has handwriting recognition (cursive handwriting) that you can input anywhere on the screen.
The Simpad has shortcuts for copy or paste and even entering an address or name or ANYTHING in full...it's really great...beats the heck out of picking out letters on a virtual keyboard or printing letters one at a time at the bottom of the screen OR any keyboard. I don't understand why more PDA's don't have this feature. Is it that difficult to implement?
Also, here's a great device that's available now.... link to device (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/) Too bad it's around $2000.
There are some more "in the hand" photos of the device here. (http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/0,2394,pg=0&s=1493&a=152792,00.asp)
Plus there's another (negetive) review here. (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,,1820232,00.asp)
About the design - the thing slides on the sides to reveal some sort of a port or something. What port is that ?
Also, if they did incorporate a sliding device, why the hell couldnt they fit in a keyboard of some sort under the sliding mechanism ? That would have been great. Instead the who slide-out area seems to be blank except for a lone small port. Is that some sort of future expandibility feature they have left in intentionally ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
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Speaking of vaporware, has anyone got their hands on a pepperpad yet?
Felipe
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Yes, a keyboard would be very nice, but I like the ability to write in cursive writing anywhere on the screen which I have on my Simpad SL4. It's much faster and easier input than thumb typing on a keyboard. You can write at any slant and at any place on the screen. The speed of the Nokia chip would make the handwriting recognition just fly. The Nokia is billed as a "tablet" but I don't see anywhere in its literature or reviews online that it has handwriting recognition (cursive handwriting) that you can input anywhere on the screen.
The Simpad has shortcuts for copy or paste and even entering an address or name or ANYTHING in full...it's really great...beats the heck out of picking out letters on a virtual keyboard or printing letters one at a time at the bottom of the screen OR any keyboard. I don't understand why more PDA's don't have this feature. Is it that difficult to implement?
Also, here's a great device that's available now.... link to device (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/) Too bad it's around $2000.[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99387\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
All Pocket PC PDAs have cursive and manuscript handwriting recognition called 'Transcriber', that lets you write anywhere on the screen. There are hand gestures for doing different things under Transcriber, I think even copy and paste operations.
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I didn't know that...I've only had Linux PDA's. I guess might have to switch. :-) I think the app on the Simpad is called "Transcriber"; works very well.
All Pocket PC PDAs have cursive and manuscript handwriting recognition called 'Transcriber', that lets you write anywhere on the screen. There are hand gestures for doing different things under Transcriber, I think even copy and paste operations.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
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I didn't know that...I've only had Linux PDA's. I guess might have to switch. :-) I think the app on the Simpad is called "Transcriber"; works very well.
All Pocket PC PDAs have cursive and manuscript handwriting recognition called 'Transcriber', that lets you write anywhere on the screen. There are hand gestures for doing different things under Transcriber, I think even copy and paste operations.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99431\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
So does qtopia 2.1. I don't know about opie.
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Handwriting Recognition is done with a closed source library on Qtopia 2. The Opie team is much too small to even attempt recreating this.
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What about the handwriting recognition library in the Nokia? Is that Open Source software?
Cause if it is, then the people at handhelds.org, openzaurus, and more could reimplement it.That would be a nice boost for them.
http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/m..._maemo_arch.gif (http://http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/nokia_770_internet_tablet_maemo_arch.gif)
[img]http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/nokia_770_internet_tablet_maemo_arch.gif\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
That chart shows the amount of Open Source software used in the N770.I'd bet that the Hadwriting part is inside the blue part.
Anyways, just how powerfull is this device (In theory)? Ok, 200 MHZ CPU, but, in the old days, StrongARM 206 MHz CPU had quite the same performance with a XScale 250 at 400 MHZ.And the DSP.What's that supposed to do?
Thanks.
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Holy! The image has been hacked! They're HERE!
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There are two things that puzzle me about this device, one software and the other hardware. On the software side why did Nokia avoid QT, especially since Trolltech is also a Norwegian company. Could it have been cost issues, or being that this is a multimedia device were there performance issues with QT.
QT is FOSS, Qtopia isn't.
Making your devices dependent on someone else's software isn't really the smartest strategy. Ask IBM.
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There are two things that puzzle me about this device, one software and the other hardware. On the software side why did Nokia avoid QT, especially since Trolltech is also a Norwegian company. Could it have been cost issues, or being that this is a multimedia device were there performance issues with QT.
QT is FOSS, Qtopia isn't.
Making your devices dependent on someone else's software isn't really the smartest strategy. Ask IBM.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
And Nokia is Finnish instead of Norwegian
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little bit offtopic
but what do you think
is this a masterpiece?
Nokia's new E61
Nokia - Nokia E61 Smartphone (http://europe.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,81718,00.html)
Almost everything wireless integrated
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what do you think is this a masterpiece? Nokia's new E61
Nokia - Nokia E61 Smartphone (http://europe.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,81718,00.html)
Almost everything wireless integrated
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
hmm, "hires screen" ===>>> 320x240.
what century are Nokia living in?
the new SonyEricsson P990 also looks neat and well integrated... but for me an HTC universal still has the hardware specification to make me drool!
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speculatrix: QVGA is hires in symbian and MS smartphones (which usually have ~170x200 displays)
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NEWS FLASH!
Many of the developer 770s have been sent out and people have been posting some feedback:
Check Here (http://uwog.net/blog/?p=8), Here (http://www.vuntz.net/journal/2005/10/19/329-thanks-nokia) and, Here (http://blogs.gnome.org/view/bolsh/2005/10/19/2).
Also, a short video of usage has popped up, in AVI (http://www.kotiposti.net/jaaksi/MVI_1271.AVI) and MPEG (http://www.kotiposti.net/jaaksi/770_use_case.mpg).Both are the same, just a different format.
Nothing much, but....
Also, pricing and availability (But no dates) have been announced.
Check Here (http://direct.nokia.com/countries.aspx?model=770) for more information.
That's all for today!
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Here's some more feedback and (p)reviews or whatever:
First Impressions (http://camaelon.blogspot.com/2005/10/nokia-770.html),
A nice little preview from random(type)® (http://www.randomtype.com/archives/2005/10/nokia_770_hands.html),
and,
Developer's First Thoughts on the Nokia 770 - Part I (http://www.internettablettalk.com/content/view/125/2/) and Part II (http://www.internettablettalk.com/content/view/126/2/)
For anything more, check planet.maemo.org (http://planet.maemo.org)
Have a nice day!
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Hey Koen,
Now that you've got yours could you do some benchmarking for comparison purposes please?
I'd be interested in video (as in watching them) performance. Anyone here have a useful idea/method of producing a benchmark and a link to a video which can be used?
Cheers,
Si
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Hey Koen,
Now that you've got yours could you do some benchmarking for comparison purposes please?
I'd be interested in video (as in watching them) performance. Anyone here have a useful idea/method of producing a benchmark and a link to a video which can be used?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=100489\")
The Ice Age 2 trailer ( [a href=\"http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/IceAge2_trailer.avi]http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/IceAge2_trailer.avi[/url] (8MB)) plays fullscreen without skipping. According to mplayer it's a 472.8kbps 352x208 15.0 fps Xvid movie.
According to Nokia devs you'll hit the limit of the crappy OMAP 1710 videochip very easy (no, poking directly at the framebuffer doesn't help. X is slightly accelerated on the 770).
But for a 220MHz cpu it's surprisingly fast in use.
I had wifi and gprs set up within a minute, installing scummvm, osso-xterm and gpe-pim took another 60 seconds.
See http://planet.maemo.org (http://planet.maemo.org) for more opinions on the device.
It's great, and a 770 + bluetooth keyboard (http://770.fs-security.com/keyboards.html) is a lot cheaper than a clamshell.
Take a look at http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog) to see what apps the community has ported to the 770.
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Thanks koen.
That video's not the greatest quality - it looks a bit fuzzy playing it back on my PC, but it is better quality than the lost episode I was trying to watch the other day on my C750 with varying degrees of success (lots of dropped frames & sound sync issues).
Perhaps someone with more experience of video on Zaurus could comment on whether this video would be playable on a Zaurus (to get an idea of the comparitive abilities)?
From my reading of this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/content/view/120/2/ (http://www.internettablettalk.com/content/view/120/2/), and the links, usb host is available. If this is the case, a powered usb keyboard might be a cheaper option than the BT ones (which all look pretty expensive in the UK).
Cheers,
Si
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I've a random question - do apps have to be hildon'ised to run on the 770 or can a normal X11 app run without being re-written?
My understanding is that the hildon interface replaces parts of GTK+?
Si
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I've a random question - do apps have to be hildon'ised to run on the 770 or can a normal X11 app run without being re-written?
My understanding is that the hildon interface replaces parts of GTK+?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100522\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
To make it appear in menus and stuff it needs to be hildonised. Hildon is a collection of new widgets and overrides some other widgets. In a way it's a libgpewidget on steroids.
SDL apps (like scummvm) can use a wrapper to integrate.
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I was just reading the maemo mailing list archive and found this about videos for those who might be interested: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/VideoEncoding (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/VideoEncoding)
I also note that the wlan system can't be put in monitor mode (yet) so no kismet, etc. http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developer...une/000417.html (http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000417.html)
Also, looking at the kernel defconfig (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/KernelConfig) I see that CONFIG_FPE_NWFPE is used rather than CONFIG_VFP. Hopefully this can be changed by a simple re-compile of the system.
Si
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The Ice Age 2 trailer ( http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/IceAge2_trailer.avi (http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/IceAge2_trailer.avi) (8MB)) plays fullscreen without skipping. According to mplayer it's a 472.8kbps 352x208 15.0 fps Xvid movie.
According to Nokia devs you'll hit the limit of the crappy OMAP 1710 videochip very easy (no, poking directly at the framebuffer doesn't help. X is slightly accelerated on the 770).
But for a 220MHz cpu it's surprisingly fast in use.
I guess this means anything over qvga video playback is not possible. Sure, it'll be magnified and fitted to the screen, but that's bad :-/ I guess it's not a decoding problem but a bandwidth problem - 640x480x16bpp = lof of bandwith needed
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From the wiki link I gave:
For QCIF 24fps is attainable, for CIF keep it below 15fps, for the larger 16:9 aspect videos drop a few fps
How does this compare with what a Zaurus can manage?
Si
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From the wiki link I gave:
For QCIF 24fps is attainable, for CIF keep it below 15fps, for the larger 16:9 aspect videos drop a few fps
How does this compare with what a Zaurus can manage?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=100779\")
Try playing [a href=\"http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/CSI-lv5x22-sample.avi]http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/CSI-lv5x22-sample.avi[/url] on a Z, the 770 handles it without a sweat. It looks really good too, filling the 15:9 widescreen.
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Try playing http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/CSI-lv5x22-sample.avi (http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/CSI-lv5x22-sample.avi) on a Z, the 770 handles it without a sweat. It looks really good too, filling the 15:9 widescreen.
Cool, will do (I don't really need an excuse to buy a 770 when they come out, but it makes it easier to part with the cash )
Si
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koen, then 3100 with bvdd supports ca. 640x480 video IIRC. That's as good as it can be.
Try playing a 640x480 video (many links are posted on the 3100 forum) on the 770. I'd be interested in the results.
For example see https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15325&st=0 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15325&st=0) with a link to a "640 x 326 widescreen, 500kbps, mono sound" startwars avi file.
How does it works on the 770 ? zooming something is good, displaying twice as much pixels is better,
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koen, then 3100 with bvdd supports ca. 640x480 video IIRC. That's as good as it can be.
Try playing a 640x480 video (many links are posted on the 3100 forum) on the 770. I'd be interested in the results.
For example see https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15325&st=0 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15325&st=0) with a link to a "640 x 326 widescreen, 500kbps, mono sound" startwars avi file.
How does it works on the 770 ? zooming something is good, displaying twice as much pixels is better,
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
"file format not supported"
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I don't want this to descend into a Zaurus vs 770 competition, I just wanted to get an idea of how well the Nokia's graphics work.
I played the CSI clip on my C750 using mplayer-atty (GPE) from OE without any dropped frames.
The Ice Age 2 trailer does need to drop some frames - by the end of the clip the sound was about 2 seconds out of sync with the picture.
The Star Wars clip is very nice quality, and here I need to start losing even more frames to keep it in sync (but when I do that, the picture is still nice).
koen, do you know what the 770 uses to play its videos? Also do you know how well optimised this software is for the dsp chip?
Thanks,
Si
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koen, do you know what the 770 uses to play its videos? Also do you know how well optimised this software is for the dsp chip?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100870\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It uses gstreamer with plugins designed for the dsp. If there is a dsp plugin for a certain format everything is handled by the dsp. The gstreamer dsp-plugins are sadly a pile of evil closed source...
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The gstreamer dsp-plugins are sadly a pile of evil closed source...
That was my fear. From what you or anyone else knows, is there enough info on the chipset to develop an open-source hw acceleration implementation?
Si
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The gstreamer dsp-plugins are sadly a pile of evil closed source...
That was my fear. From what you or anyone else knows, is there enough info on the chipset to develop an open-source hw acceleration implementation?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=100886\")
Documentation isn't an issue, the compiler used (CodeComposer) is a bit expensive and [a href=\"http://gcc-c54x.berlios.de/]http://gcc-c54x.berlios.de/[/url] is still in its infancy. See http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/index.php (http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/index.php) for more info.
I'm trying to get the CC compiler through the uni to have a look at it during the ESP course next semester, but I'm afraid writing a h264/mp4/theora decoder will take a fairly huge amount of time.
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I don't want this to descend into a Zaurus vs 770 competition, I just wanted to get an idea of how well the Nokia's graphics work.
Same here. koen, could you try mencoder to convert the video to a format the media player could handle? If it does h264 in hw, that could be fine. Else, mpeg2 may be easier on the CPU
I just want to know if the 770 can do VGA video playback at a good framerate - regardless the codec used.
qvga @ 15 fps is not acceptable :-/
Guylhem
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That video may be causing issues as it's pre-rotated.
It's also a bit harsh to expect koen to stop what he's doing & re-encode the video for us (after I just asked in the other thread for an unrotated starwars video which I ought to just unrotate myself as it's me who wants it).
If anyone has something available already (or a link to something) that would be easier all round, and in fact it would be interesting to try with a range of codecs, etc.
Si
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That video may be causing issues as it's pre-rotated.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101009\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
According to the nokia devs it only has dsp plugins for mpeg1, mpeg4 and real. Adding support more formats is a matter of installing the right gstreamer plugin. The dsp plugins don't use X for output, but write to a portion of ram which gets DMA's into the fb backbuffer.
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It seems to start shipping (http://press.nokia.com/PR/200511/1019865_5.html).
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Indeed.
I have one on my desk right now.
Si
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I have one on my desk right now.
any chance of seeing if you can get the shockwave flash player and other goodies off the Nokia and onto a Zaurus?
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I can have a look see.
I only got it yesterday and haven't had much time to play yet, but will keep you updated with progress. If anyone has any questions, etc. I'm more than willing to answer.
Si
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can you lease post pictures of it next to a zaurus? is it more or less responsive than the Z, when surfing, emailing ? Is the maemo environment annoying or really useful?
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If anyone has any questions, etc. I'm more than willing to answer.
Does it brings something to a zaurus clamshell owner?
Does the bigger screen makes a real difference?
My heart says "get one", but my mind tends to disagree
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Bigger screen is great, lack of keyboard isn't as annoying as I'd thought it would be; it's slightly longer but thinner than my Zaurus (I'll take some photos and post them when I get home this evening).
The maemo environment isn't bad; I do find some of the menus are a bit slow but this may be to do with bluetooth (I was transfering files from my phone) and/or the fact that I was playing an mp3 at the same time.
Built in wifi is really good, really quick too .
What I need now:
By default it's not discoverable so I need to do some hacking so that I can use it like someone would use their phones, to send & receive files, etc.
I couldn't play some avi files I've got lying around; not sure what I'll have to do to sort this out, perhaps hack with the dsp, I'm looking into it.
Si
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A close-up picture (http://coder.freeshell.org/LinuxTag2005/IMG_1764.JPG) of the 770 held by the Nokia 770 product manager Devesh Kothari at the Linux Tag 06/23/2005 in Karlsruhe, Germany.
The Maemo development list (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel).
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http://planet.maemo.org/ (http://planet.maemo.org/)
Some comparison pictures on here against various bits & bobs - iPOD, iPAQ, PSP.
Si
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1) can you please comment on the web browser included? does it handle js, ajax?
2) can you try the same app in a n770 and comment on speed difference?
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1) can you please comment on the web browser included? does it handle js, ajax?
I've no idea what ajax is, it does handle js I think. Give me an example site if you want (I seem to remember seeing ones which test a browser's abilities, etc.)
2) can you try the same app in a n770 and comment on speed difference?
Perhaps, I'm not sure that there are that many which are the same across the two platforms except plucker and the gpe-minibrowser & pim suite. Is there anything in particular you want tested? Here's a list of apps: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog)
When I have some time I'll make a .deb of octave and test the number crunching performance; anyone else have any suggestions?
This might be of use: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCata...94410fb32df8955 (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog#head-bdd96dac320ab3cf0ab1b526394410fb32df8955) though I've not seen this available in ipk form for the Zaurii.
Si
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1) can you please try http://script.aculo.us/demos/shop (http://script.aculo.us/demos/shop) and drag&drop a mug inside the square below
2) can you try abiword? I ses it's already ported to maemo. Please post first launch/load times, save times, and how it feels with a big doc
Th ecpu seems to be an arm-220MHz. Does this make it a-lot-slower than c750/cxk, which are about 400MHz?
3) pictures side-by-side, and to see width differences
4) can you please comment on screen differences?
Thanks in advance. The nokia 770 seems really a new Z to me, advanced, with a big company behaind, just lacking a kb (maybe I can get a usb/bt one) and cf (modem, lan and other legacy-goodies I stiil need)
I also have a c750, so your case fits mine very well.
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1) can you please try http://script.aculo.us/demos/shop (http://script.aculo.us/demos/shop) and drag&drop a mug inside the square below
Loaded fine, but dragging moves the page in Opera. So no dragging and dropping I'm afraid.
The rest I'll sort tomorrow (no Zaurus here for photos, etc.)
Si
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Loaded fine, but dragging moves the page in Opera. So no dragging and dropping I'm afraid.
The rest I'll sort tomorrow (no Zaurus here for photos, etc.)
Si
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103000\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
So does the Nokia 770 have Opera? If so, go to General Preferences in Opera menu and click on button beside "Scroll with selection" to keep from dragging page. Then you can still scroll with the D-pad.
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I've no idea what ajax is, it does handle js I think. Give me an example site if you want (I seem to remember seeing ones which test a browser's abilities, etc.)
An interesting test would be TiddlyWiki, mentioned in another recent thread here :
http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ (http://www.tiddlywiki.com/)
... not really a web site but a self-contained, self-editable, interactive HTML file, thus potentially useful for mobile devices. Makes advanced use of javascript/DOM/AJAX/whatever, which unfortunately is too much for the version of Opera on the Zaurus. I wonder if that on the 770 is any better ?
TIA,
fp
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I've no idea what ajax is, it does handle js I think. Give me an example site if you want (I seem to remember seeing ones which test a browser's abilities, etc.)
this breaks opera or netfront on Zaurus:
http://trimpath.com/demos/nextaction_static1/nextaction.htm (http://trimpath.com/demos/nextaction_static1/nextaction.htm)
this is very slow on opera/Zaurus, broken on netfront:
http://shared.snapgrid.com/gtd_tiddlywiki.html (http://shared.snapgrid.com/gtd_tiddlywiki.html)
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this breaks opera or netfront on Zaurus:
http://trimpath.com/demos/nextaction_static1/nextaction.htm (http://trimpath.com/demos/nextaction_static1/nextaction.htm)
I get the message (in the centre of the page, the page edges, etc., load okay):
[ERROR: controller processing: home, start, undefined: [Error: name: EvalError message: ]]
this is very slow on opera/Zaurus, broken on netfront:
http://shared.snapgrid.com/gtd_tiddlywiki.html (http://shared.snapgrid.com/gtd_tiddlywiki.html)
No problems with this and it's not slow either.
So does the Nokia 770 have Opera?
Yes, I think so, though it's not labelled as such.
If so, go to General Preferences in Opera menu and click on button beside "Scroll with selection" to keep from dragging page. Then you can still scroll with the D-pad.
This option is not available nor can I find any way to stop the page dragging behaviour.
Si
P.S. Forgot the photos, will try to remember when I head home for lunch
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lardman
Group: Members
From: Bath, UK
hmm, my wife has been telling me how much she liked going to Bath, so maybe I need to come abd visit the Bath handheld's club
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I'm afraid there's only one member of said club afaik, however if you're down give me a shout,
Si
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lardman, can you please comment on the fact that the n770 has slower MHz cpu than the Z, and if this really affects overall usability performance ?
thanks.
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It feels slower than my C750, probably about the same as my sl5500 (we're talking about running X11 here).
In fact the menu behaviour etc (slight delays) reminds me of my Psions (Series 5 probably) - it's slower, but usually not so slow as to be annoying.
Si
P.S. If someone wants to compile this: http://gtkperf.sourceforge.net/ (http://gtkperf.sourceforge.net/), I'll run some tests (as it's available for the 770).
If you want me to test other stuff (like fp speed which will be slow as it uses FPA to remain compatible with debian), then let me know, and give me some ideas of what to use to test things, etc.
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Maybe the delays are related to gpe ?
What about video playback? Could you try vga playback?
Guylhem
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Maybe the delays are related to gpe ?
No - I run GPE on my C750, perhaps they are related to the Nokia stuff though.
What about video playback? Could you try vga playback?
Of course.
Point me at an avi and I'll try it. Needs to be 'divx' for the fourcc though I think.
Si
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There's now a forum for the 770 here on OE forums:
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=150 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=150)
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Maybe the delays are related to gpe ?
Just to finish this thought:
I've since flashed a gpe-image on my 770 and it's nice and fast - feels like my C750.
Si