OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => C1000/3x00 General discussions => Topic started by: omro on June 07, 2005, 05:59:19 am
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Hi there,
I'm curious about putting a new Rom onto my C1000. I've yet to do so, have felt the fear. I know that Sharp Rom I have works and does most of what I need OK.
However, when OE based Roms or the Cacko Rom are ready for the C1000 or when the pdaXrom is ready for the C1000
Which is most versatile and useful?
And why?
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Hi there,
I'm curious about putting a new Rom onto my C1000. I've yet to do so, have felt the fear. I know that Sharp Rom I have works and does most of what I need OK.
However, when OE based Roms or the Cacko Rom are ready for the C1000 or when the pdaXrom is ready for the C1000
Which is most versatile and useful?
And why?
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Cacko (and other clones) is just like the one from sharp: it works. The stuff from pdaX and OE was designed to be extensible en versatile, so I'd go with one of those. Judging from this forum the pdaX image has slightly better support for the cx000 series.
As always: make a backup and try what's available.
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omro, it really depends on what you're trying to do. If you need your 1000 to be more 'pda-like' so that you can sync with a windows box and ms outlook, then you're probably better off with the sharp based rom (just wait for the cacko beta for the 1000, it's real pretty, and maslovsky cleans up the sharp rom nicely).
If you're looking for your 1000 to be a 'mini-laptop' or true portable computer, then the oz/opie, oz/gpe, or pdaxrom will be better suited for you. Also, if you need to sync with a linux box, I believe the these will work better for that as well.
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My main needs are good spreadsheet, good word processor, good pim, webserver and decent html/php editor.
A lovely interface wouldn't go amiss though, we do like it when our PDA looks nice to use!
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I think there are quite a few people with this same question (including me!). I tried searching for an answer in some kind of faq but I couldn't find one (but perhaps I searched in the wrong places), so perhaps a good idea to include it somewhere as a sticky (since it changes a lot as development of the rom's progresses).
I read in a few places that "fpu emulation is different", depending on which rom you use. How is this different exactly? Also did I read it correctly that the Qtopia in the open source variants is different than the one in the Sharp rom because it was forked in an open one and a closed one with more features? If so, what are those features?
Ka/Pi is a good PIM. How slow is open office on the Z under pdaXrom?
My main use for the Z would be like a mini-laptop, to write latex documents and view them, xfig, gimp and as a vnc client or x-terminal. So for my use I think pdaXrom would be best (using sharp rom right now though, waiting till the next RC). Or would one of the OZ roms do as well? My concern is that pdaXrom is slower though because of code bloat in the applications originally written for desktop systems (as the Z only has 64 megs SDRAM, and swapping memory would mean thrashing your NAND or SD card eventually). Is this concern justified?
I wish there was some sort of FLTK rom and a program that converts C++ sources for GTK+ / wxWidgets / Qtopia stuff etc. to FLTK (because that one is said to have a small memory footprint). I saw there is an FLTK ipk for pdaXrom already though.
I also saw there was a BSD somewhere, how about that one?
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My main use for the Z would be like a mini-laptop, to write latex documents and view them, xfig, gimp and as a vnc client or x-terminal. So for my use I think pdaXrom would be best (using sharp rom right now though, waiting till the next RC). Or would one of the OZ roms do as well? My concern is that pdaXrom is slower though because of code bloat in the applications originally written for desktop systems (as the Z only has 64 megs SDRAM, and swapping memory would mean thrashing your NAND or SD card eventually). Is this concern justified?
I wish there was some sort of FLTK rom and a program that converts C++ sources for GTK+ / wxWidgets / Qtopia stuff etc. to FLTK (because that one is said to have a small memory footprint). I saw there is an FLTK ipk for pdaXrom already though.
I also saw there was a BSD somewhere, how about that one?
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'Code bloat' and the fltk stuff is just good old FUD spread by TT and the fltk people. I run X and abiword on my c700 and it isn't 'slow' or 'bloated'.
Not painting to the framebuffer directly or having 200k more RAM usage doesn't make it suddenly unuseable. The new zaurus model are a lot more powerfull than your desktop a few years ago, and that could handle stuff like win98.
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omro, I don't think you'll get an answer untill you try it for yourself..
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The best thing to do is to try them out for yourself. It's not something you have to fear, but you do need to be aware of the need for good backups and knowing how to restore to your current ROM, i.e. typically doing a NAND restore. That sounds worse than it is, it's not hard at all.
I've tried the OZ for my C1000 and it's pretty nice, but the lack of a good browser and email program made it frustrating for me. Those two things seem somewhat intrinsic for any kind of networkable PDA. I considered pdaXrom and it's something I probably will try eventually as I really prefer the X GUI, but I'm going to wait until RCs become less beta-ish and more done-ish.
And as an end-user and not a developer, I don't mind waiting.
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I agree -- only after trying them yourself will you know which one is best for you.
I'm currently running an OZ 3.5.3 image I customized by replacing the opie PIM apps with ko/pi and ka/pi. Then I run pocketworkstation from my SD card which allows me to use firefox when I really need a graphical web browser. It takes a minute or so to actually load, but once it's up it is great.
When I don't need the UI of firefox, I'm perfectly happy browsing sites with links on either the console or in the konsole app.
I haven't tried pdaxrom yet, but I will sometime. The appeal of OZ is that it's designed for a PDA. I know the environment of the pdaxrom can be tweaked to have a similar design goal, i'm just not sure i'm ready to take that leap yet. Plus, having openembedded around to build apps for my zaurus is very cool.
jason
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Note that OZ has 2 flavors:
- OZ/opie: which is based on a rewrite/fork of qtopia.
- OZ/gpe: which is based on X.
Pdaxrom and OZ/gpe both use matchbox panel and desktop (but not the same windows manager) by default.
There is one reason not to quit qtopia (original software/cacko): the ability to synch with outlook.
Ko/pi Ka/pi is portable and can be used everywhere, but the ability to set alarms that wakes up the Z with it is not available on X based rom
An X server can also be run inside qtopia/opie.
open office is only available through the installation of a chrooted debian.
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Ko/pi Ka/pi is portable and can be used everywhere, but the ability to set alarms that wakes up the Z with it is not available on X based rom
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After patching the X server, my Z wakes up for alarm. Now I just need to remember to set them
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you set them with some command line tool? like at ? or with gpe-alarm or something?
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you set them with some command line tool? like at ? or with gpe-alarm or something?
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In gpe-calendar
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Does pdaXrom have good PDA type support? i.e. will it use things like the USB host, can it connect to a PC with USB networking?
What is the default window manager?
Can it cope with full apps quickly? What is the best office suite for it?
Can instant on and off work?
Any issues with key mappings?
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Does pdaXrom have good PDA type support? i.e. will it use things like the USB host, can it connect to a PC with USB networking?
yes, like the other distributions
What is the default window manager?
openbox
Can it cope with full apps quickly?
what do you mean? it takes 20-30 seconds to open firefox if this is the kind of response you need.
What is the best office suite for it?
abiword-gnumeric is what has been ported (OpenOffice is available only in debian in a chrooted environement)
Can instant on and off work?
I think nobody would use a distribution if you had to shutdown/reboot the zaurus everytime. So suspend/resume is available everywhere.
Any issues with key mappings?
like what? Nothing that prevent you to type...
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QUOTE
Can it cope with full apps quickly?
what do you mean? it takes 20-30 seconds to open firefox if this is the kind of response you need.
That's great to know
Are apps easy to install? Do they use up all the space fast?
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Any issues with key mappings?
like what? Nothing that prevent you to type...
Can you map the japanese keys to things, can you map the quick start buttons to things? Can you change keys around or add currency symbols easily through key combinations?
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Are apps easy to install? Do they use up all the space fast?
like the other distributions, it uses ipk (with or without gui) and feeds.
You will run into trouble with a fat formated card (ie need ext2 formated card, a image file or umsdos)
Do they use up all the space fast?
Well it depends, you might feel a bit restricted without a card. But even with a small card (128 m) you can install a good number of application
Can you map the japanese keys to things
Can you change keys around or add currency symbols easily through key combinations?
if you know how to edit a file and a bit about xmodmap yes it's easy. There is no gui for this.
can you map the quick start buttons to things?
yes, there is a gui for this. but I'm not sure how well it works for models != Sl-C700 - 860
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So if you were recommending that someone use pdaXrom you'd recommend a sizeable SD card, how big for instance?
Would people say that they prefer having a more linux mini laptop experience with their Z than little cool toy experience?
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Would people say that they prefer having a more linux mini laptop experience with their Z than little cool toy experience?
Depends entirely on the way you use your Z. For me, pdaXrom turns my Zs into cool toys. When I want to really use any of them, I reflash to a Qtopia-based ROM (Cacko when I can get it). It gives me quick, easy access to all my network tools and saved documents. Your mileage may vary.
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For me, pdaXrom turns my Zs into cool toys.
Would be nice to know what you mean :-)
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For me, pdaXrom turns my Zs into cool toys.
Would be nice to know what you mean :-)
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I use my Zs at work and at home. Work is where I get the most use, carrying every document I need, lists of equipment and settings, etc. Qtopia allows me to rapidly find an open a document with one hand rather than forcing me to use a stylus. I can remotely connect to several of my servers/routers using SSH/VNC/qtrdesktop, etc. PdaXrom has all the same tools, it's just less convenient for me.
PdaXrom is more fun, looks cool and always draws a crowd when I'm showing it off, but I get more use out of Qtopia. If I could run a full Qtopia on top of pdaXrom, I would do it in a heartbeat regardless of its speed.
How you use your Z and your personal preferences will make all the difference. That's why so many people are telling you to see for yourself.
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I'd definitely like to, when a stable pdaXrom for the C1000 is ready.
Is it possible to install pdaXrom onto an SD card and keep your qtopia sharp rom on the internal flash and choose between which you boot and it stays in that rom until your next reboot and rom choose?
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I'd definitely like to, when a stable pdaXrom for the C1000 is ready.
Is it possible to install pdaXrom onto an SD card and keep your qtopia sharp rom on the internal flash and choose between which you boot and it stays in that rom until your next reboot and rom choose?
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It sure is possible. All you need to do is "rip" a pdaXrom ie: copy the content into an
image file or directly onto your SD card.
If pdaXrom and your installed ROM both use the same kernel (which I dunno), you are set. If not, it can become rather complicated
Then you'd need a boot-manager for your device to choose what to boot.
I dunno if rboot works with the C1000 and altboot has not yet been tested on this
device. Chances are good that they'll work though as the Akita ships w/ a 2.4 series kernel.
So in short: Is it possible? Yes. Can it be done w/o much work involved? I don't think so.
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yeah, I was able to run pdaXrom off a disk image using chroot on the c3000. even managed to get some X apps running but there is more work required to get everything running smoothly.
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It all sounds terribly promising and exciting though!
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I'm looking forward to pdaXrom on the zaurus, would be awesome to have a fully fledged mini laptop!
How large an SD card would be recommended?
Any idea when pdaXrom will be available stably on the c1000?
I'm currently using the default sharp rom, will that allow a dual boot?
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BTW, have you checked pocketworkstation (http://pocketworkstation.org/) ?
It might help you some way...
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What advantages are there to having Debian on the zaurus instead of pdaXrom? I would have thought pdaXrom would have seemed more tailored to the platform, no?
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What advantages are there to having Debian on the zaurus instead of pdaXrom? I would have thought pdaXrom would have seemed more tailored to the platform, no?
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Debian is..bigger. more apps "out of the box" --big stable distro, etc.
Having run both I can say that debian using vnc as it is setup is pretty cool. pdax is definitely more tailored, though. as usual, depends what you're up to
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Am up for:
ease of installation - complex things confuse me way too easily, if I get frustrated and have to spent too long problem solving, I tend to lose interest.
ease of use - same reason
the apps which I need - MySQL, Apache, PHP, HTML editor (with syntax hi-lighting), word processor, spreadsheet, some decent PIM.
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give pdaX a try... it sounds like you'd like it
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give pdaX a try... it sounds like you'd like it
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I've tried it, I loved it, now all I need to do is find out how to dual boot it and install pdaXrom onto an SD card and leave my sharp rom on the main flash and boot between the two as needed.
I hope that's possible.
IF it were possible to install better office software and web software on the sharp rom or on OE I'd switch back, but for the time being I think pdaXrom might be my way forward. However OE advances all the time, when they add OOo into the mix, that'd be awesome.
If anyone knows how to dual boot the zaurus between the sharp rom and pdaXrom on the C1000 please please let me know how you did it!
Thanks