OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => C1000/3x00 Hardware => Topic started by: daniel3000 on June 20, 2005, 09:33:12 am
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Hello,
as USB also works with 5V power supply to other devices, couldn't the Zauri (e.g. SL-C3000) be charged via USB when connected to a PC for syncing / data transfer?
One could hard-wire the USB power supply lines Vcc and 0V to the AC adapter plug, and each time you connect the Zaurus to the PC the Zaurus will be charged...
Or, without a hardware modification: An adapter cable could be made; basically a normal USB A to USB-mini-B cable with a third end with a charging plug, wired from the USB power lines.
Has anyone done this before, or are there any points against that?
daniel
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I do it on my c860... built a sync cable that can charge through the i/o plug... what you say will also work, making a usb cable with two plugs one or the dc power and the other for usb sync.
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I do it on my c860... built a sync cable that can charge through the i/o plug... what you say will also work, making a usb cable with two plugs one or the dc power and the other for usb sync.
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Omega,
NOOOO ! STOP ! Don't do this !
You're a SL-C860 user, so it's no problem.
Charging over USB is possible with C700/750/760/860 only !
These devices support charging via the SHARP I/O port.
The SL-C1000 / SL-C3000 models _don't_ support this. We
don't know if the appropriate pins are not connected or if
you may damage the device, but i wouldn't test it out.
Again: Don't use the previous available charging cables on
the CxK units.
///TRIsoft
Marc Stephan
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You mean something like this
http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138 (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138)
I've been using one off and on now for about a month - used to use the same companies power/sync cable too on my C860.
According to Sharp's Japanese C1K/C3K faq, the usb mini-a/b doesn't support powering the Z.
Stu
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I do it on my c860... built a sync cable that can charge through the i/o plug... what you say will also work, making a usb cable with two plugs one or the dc power and the other for usb sync.
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Omega,
NOOOO ! STOP ! Don't do this !
You're a SL-C860 user, so it's no problem.
Charging over USB is possible with C700/750/760/860 only !
These devices support charging via the SHARP I/O port.
The SL-C1000 / SL-C3000 models _don't_ support this. We
don't know if the appropriate pins are not connected or if
you may damage the device, but i wouldn't test it out.
Again: Don't use the previous available charging cables on
the CxK units.
///TRIsoft
Marc Stephan
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Marc's right. Why even bother taking the chance. The 6000 was chargable via USB also, but that's because the service port allowed it.
What are you really gaining compared to losing your warranty and possibly your device. For Pete's sake just carry an extra battery or a slightly larger case and the adapter. If you're doing something that requires a constant charge then why not just do it on the PC you're thinking of using in place of the adapter???
Just my $.02
gdog
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You mean something like this
http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138 (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
No. I mean a real USB data cable with ADDED plug for the 5V AC jack of the Zaurus. The one shown on your link is only a plain USB power cable.
And Marc, I also don't mean charging via the Sharp I/O port.
I mean simply a (self-made) cable with an USB-A plug on one side (PC) and with two plugs on the other side: A Mini-USB-B plug (Zaurus data) and that round AC adapter plug (Zaurus 5V supply).
Since the USB ports of a PC should supply a very stable voltage for sinsitive devices, it should be well suited to charge the Zaurus. THe only thing to tke care of is not to connect in in parallel with many other devices on a passive USB hub, because the power on the USB port will not suffice.
daniel
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You mean something like this
http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138 (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
No. I mean a real USB data cable with ADDED plug for the 5V AC jack of the Zaurus. The one shown on your link is only a plain USB power cable.
And Marc, I also don't mean charging via the Sharp I/O port.
I mean simply a (self-made) cable with an USB-A plug on one side (PC) and with two plugs on the other side: A Mini-USB-B plug (Zaurus data) and that round AC adapter plug (Zaurus 5V supply).
Since the USB ports of a PC should supply a very stable voltage for sinsitive devices, it should be well suited to charge the Zaurus. THe only thing to tke care of is not to connect in in parallel with many other devices on a passive USB hub, because the power on the USB port will not suffice.
daniel
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From the Sharp Japan site (http://support.ezaurus.com/sl-c1000/qa/qa_7_35.asp#a6)
Q.6 USBケーブルからSL-C1000へ電源供給されますか？
A.6 USBで供給できる電流は500mAまでです。SL-C1000に使用されている専用リチウム充電池EA-BL11の充電および実行にはそれ以上の電力が必要であるため（1800mA）、USBケーブルからは充電できません。ACアダプターをご使用ください。
Which translated says
Q.6 Can the USB cable charge the SL-C1000?
A.6 The current that can be supplied from USB is up to 500mA. Because more power is needed to charge the special lithium rechargable battery EA-BL11 (1800mA) used in the SL-C1000, it is not possible to chaege it from the USB cable. Use the AC adaptor.
They don't mention whether the wiring of the usb cable support the charging of the battery, but they don't seem to think that it would work even if the wiring was properly connected, but the extra AC plug idea just might be workable.
Give it a try, I would love to hear your results on this. I loved being able to sync and charge my C760 with the one cable, I can still charge using USB but need another cable for data transfer.
Stu
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The USB cable cannot charge the Z, but it can supply sufficient power for it to run.
If you want to charge your Z via USB, then you will need to build a custom cable with the power plug on one side and two usb a connectors on the other to draw power from two usb ports.
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OK,
now i got it.
Using such a funny USB-to-power-jack cable is OK.
But you shouldn't use these cables on external active
hubs. Some of the hubs blow out more than 5V which
could damage your Zaurus. As long as you use it
connected to a PC, there should be no problem.
///TRIsoft
Marc Stephan
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OK,
now i got it.
Using such a funny USB-to-power-jack cable is OK.
But you shouldn't use these cables on external active
hubs. Some of the hubs blow out more than 5V which
could damage your Zaurus. As long as you use it
connected to a PC, there should be no problem.
///TRIsoft
Marc Stephan
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Thanks for all your feedback! I will give it a try, maybe with two USB plugs (thanks for the idea! I remember that I have seen something like this for external HDDs!). And when I'm finished, I'll report here!
daniel
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You mean something like this
http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138 (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=138)
I've been using that cable for a while now to charge my C3000's battery while on the move. I've got a nice small USB hub with a not too bulky 5V DC adapter, so basically I have the power-to-go cable connected between one of the USB connectors of the hub and the Zaurus, and I use my USB mini-A to USB adapter, and a USB to mini-B cable to connect the USB hub to the Zaurus through the USB host plug. (OMG, how confusing it sounds when I try to re-read this sentence... See the attached picture, it'll be easier to understand! It shows my Zaurus connected to the USB hub by both USB-host cable and power cable, and a bluetooth USB dongle and USB mouse connected to the hub. Works like a charm! [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] )
All in all, my Zaurus can recharge if I don't need any particular power from the USB hub for another USB device, and if so I just disconnect the power-to-go cable and the AC adapter then powers the USB device.
I'm not sure if sharing the same USB port to plug a cable that would go to the Zaurus USB host plug AND to the Zaurus DC plug would work (maybe there are electrical implications to doing that, like the Zaurus DC requiring too much power and conflicting with the normal USB link), but OTOH I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. It's close to what I'm doing right now, except that the USB cable is plugged to a different port on the HUB than the DC cable...
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is it possible i get the C7x0/C8x0 series Serial-USB cable and charge that way instead?
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is it possible i get the C7x0/C8x0 series Serial-USB cable and charge that way instead?
I don't think so. The C7x0/C8x0 could be recharged by simply using the USB connector, while the C3x00/C1000 can only be recharged via the DC plug, as far as I understand...
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is it possible i get the C7x0/C8x0 series Serial-USB cable and charge that way instead?
I don't think so. The C7x0/C8x0 could be recharged by simply using the USB connector, while the C3x00/C1000 can only be recharged via the DC plug, as far as I understand...
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Yup, the C3x00 and C1000 use a special DC plug which unfortunately is not too common, but the "P to GO" cable fits just perfect. The USB port is a OTG port and does not charge like the older models.
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Right well I guess that's another reason for me to hang on to my 860 :-) I can charge from any usb port, car, mains all with one compact cable.
It does make you wonder why sharp changed such a useful 1 port solution.
But then I don't have usb in support - I can live with that :-)
I did try messing around with chargers on my original 5500 and fried it - so just be careful folks :-)
But you've got to admire the ingenuity :-)
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is it possible i get the C7x0/C8x0 series Serial-USB cable and charge that way instead?
I don't think so. The C7x0/C8x0 could be recharged by simply using the USB connector, while the C3x00/C1000 can only be recharged via the DC plug, as far as I understand...
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but doesn't C3x00/C1000 has a serial port too?
maybe someone has a whitepaper or some sort to give us some hints
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but doesn't C3x00/C1000 has a serial port too?
maybe someone has a whitepaper or some sort to give us some hints
I think that guys from TriSoft or Conics would be good candidate as they are really specialist in the Zaurus area, and could possibly have the answer to that question.
As far as I can remember (from reading this board and other stuff on the net), the C3x00 indeed features a Sharp connector under the little gray rubber cover on the back, and it seems that this connector can be used (with the appropriate cable) as a serial cable. But since the USB connector isn't connected to the battery charging circuit, I seriously doubt that the serial (Sharp) connector under that rubber cover would be connected to the charging circuit...
That being said, the C3000 is my first Zaurus, and as such I have never used the Sharp connector... Does this connector, on older devices that have it too, let you charge the battery?
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but doesn't C3x00/C1000 has a serial port too?
maybe someone has a whitepaper or some sort to give us some hints
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89072\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yes, it does. It is hidden behind the gray plastic cover.
However, I've heard that it is only a serial port and can't be used for charging the zaurus. So you might be taking a big risk trying to charge using it.
Also the cover doesn't come off easily (not like the C760 cover) so you might break something tyring to get it open
Stu
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I think that guys from TriSoft or Conics would be good candidate as they are really specialist in the Zaurus area, and could possibly have the answer to that question.
Hi everybody,
and here is the answer:
First have a look at the documentation of the SHARP I/O port
for the Zaurus series. It's free available here:
SHARP Documents for the I/O port (http://www.sharp.de/pdat/sio.zip)
Charging the SL-5x00 / SL-C7x0 / SL-C860 via the I/O port was
done using the pins 1+2 / 15+16 .
These pins are not connected in the SL-C1000/3000/3100.
So there's no way to use the USB-charging cables or the serial
cable with the power jack to charge a Zaurus of the SL-Cxx00 series.
Connected pins on the SL-Cxx00 series are: 3,4,5,6,7,8,10,11,13 and 14.
So only the serial / wakeup functions are supported on the new Zauris.
///TRIsoft
Marc Stephan
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While we are on the topic of charging via the USB port, does anyone know whether there are battery powered hubs available? Seems to me that the hub electronics wouldn't add much size to an external battery pack that runs off 4 rechargeable AA batteries.
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While we are on the topic of charging via the USB port, does anyone know whether there are battery powered hubs available? Seems to me that the hub electronics wouldn't add much size to an external battery pack that runs off 4 rechargeable AA batteries.
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The hub Patrick is using is powered via 5V dc, connect it to a 4 NiMH batterypack and this hub is 'battery powered' I should think.
Rick
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Okay guys, I did it.
I made a simple USB -> Zaurus DC plug cable and it does a very nice job charging the Zaurus.
SImply take any USB cable with an USB A plug, but the other side off. YOu will find four wires, two of them probably being red and black. Cut off the other wires and the shielding.
Connect the USB plug to a computer and measure if the red and black leads really have 5V and if the black on e is really minus and the red one really plus.
(make sure not to shorten them, I don't know the the USB port of the computer will stand a short-circuit).
Take a DC plug fitting the Zaurus' DC connector and solder it to the red and black wires so that minus is at the outside and plus at the inside. Insulate everything well!
Again connect the USB plug to a computer and measure once more if really there are exactly 5V (4,9 or 5,1 are also okay) and if the OUTSIDE of the plug has minus and the inside of the plug has plus 5 V!
And voila, there is a quite cheap charging cable, which is easy to carry around. You only need a computer with an USB port to charge your Zaurus.
My recommendation: On each computer you don't know yet, first perform a measurement if there are really 5V on the USB port.
Especially be careful with powered USB hubs!!
Maybe I will enhance the cable with a voltage stabilizer later to avoid overvoltage even on sloppy hubs.
daniel
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Okay guys, I did it.
I made a simple USB -> Zaurus DC plug cable and it does a very nice job charging the Zaurus.
it seems great ! i 'd try asap
anyway is the P-Cord available somewhere in europe ?
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Maybe I will enhance the cable with a voltage stabilizer later to avoid overvoltage even on sloppy hubs.
daniel
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hi!
i'm about to build your usb charging cable perhaps tonight...
did you put the voltage stabilizer ?
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Testing tonight PSP usb charging cables.
Here comes photos:
Dragonplus and Kaiyue boxes
[img]http://people.jyu.fi/~tomisako/z/psp-usb/dragonplus_and_kaiyue.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
Closer look Dragonplus...
[img]http://people.jyu.fi/~tomisako/z/psp-usb/closer_look_dragonplus.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
Kaiyue plugged in the Z
[img]http://people.jyu.fi/~tomisako/z/psp-usb/kaiyue_charge_and_data.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
Kaiyue
[img]http://people.jyu.fi/~tomisako/z/psp-usb/kaiyue_charge_and_data_2.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
Tested Kaiyue (from Polarpanda (http://www.polarpanda.com) <- Good Service!) and it seems to charge like it should.
Kaiyues PSP mini usb is different gender than Z's original syncing cable's mini plug.
So sync with this cable isn't possible..?
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Testing tonight PSP usb charging cables.
I will report here.
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I have bought on ebay a PSP charging cable. Works great with my C3100! ( and it should, as some places sell the PSP charger for the Zaurus )
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great piece of news !
i'll go to night to french shops selling PSP bo buy a PSP ... heuuuu... a PSP charging cable
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for a quick and dirty way of protecting against high voltage inputs on the usb lines get a 5.1v zener diode and a resistor, wire tehm together (in series) and then attach them between the 5v and gnd line
quick and dirty low dropout voltage regulator, for those who want protection for high voltages from usb hubs
hope that helped (the triangle symbol for the zener should be pointing at the 5v line, on the device itself its a line so line should be on the 5v side)
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for a quick and dirty way of protecting against high voltage inputs on the usb lines get a 5.1v zener diode and a resistor, wire tehm together (in series) and then attach them between the 5v and gnd line
quick and dirty low dropout voltage regulator, for those who want protection for high voltages from usb hubs
hope that helped (the triangle symbol for the zener should be pointing at the 5v line, on the device itself its a line so line should be on the 5v side)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have tried such a simple voltage limiter circuit, but unfortunately the low input resistance of the Zaurus makes this unusable, as the current limiting resistor for the Zener diode is always too large in comparison to the Zaurus inner resistance.
That makes the two resistors (limiting and Zaurus inner one) a voltage divider and the voltage over the limiting resistor is always so high that the remaining voltage for the Zaurus is way below 5V :-(
The limiting resistor would have to be so small in value that it cannot limit the current enough.
daniel
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what about this one :
http://shop.brando.com.hk/3in1chargerforpsp.php (http://shop.brando.com.hk/3in1chargerforpsp.php)
3-in-1 charger for ... Zaurus ?
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or this one :
http://www.wexim.com/cgi-bin/shop/UK-SPSP.html (http://www.wexim.com/cgi-bin/shop/UK-SPSP.html)
come on, we have choices now
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what about this one :
http://shop.brando.com.hk/3in1chargerforpsp.php (http://shop.brando.com.hk/3in1chargerforpsp.php)
3-in-1 charger for ... Zaurus ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94671\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
well
i finally bought this one from Brando with a SLC3000 brando case
i'll let you know
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guys, ladies (?)
i've just received my whole package from Brando :
-pda air case, fit perfectly the Z, i've to try it further to be sure it is THE case
-psp usb charging cable : now it is charging the Z (at least I hope ! the orange led is lit
but i first tried to plug it with the Z lit and the orange led kept blinking....but if the Z is powered off it seems to charge....i've to check my usb power...perhaps not enough power to charge and power the Z ...
anyone got the same issue ?
i'll let you know more later
Jean-Paul
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but i first tried to plug it with the Z lit and the orange led kept blinking....but if the Z is powered off it seems to charge....i've to check my usb power...perhaps not enough power to charge and power the Z ...
anyone got the same issue ?
With my little USB hub and its AC adapter, I also get (almost) the same behavior. When the Zaurus is powered off, or powered on but idle (no hard disk activity), the orange LED is ON. But when there are some microdrive access, the orange LED blinks...
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but i first tried to plug it with the Z lit and the orange led kept blinking....but if the Z is powered off it seems to charge....i've to check my usb power...perhaps not enough power to charge and power the Z ...
anyone got the same issue ?
With my little USB hub and its AC adapter, I also get (almost) the same behavior. When the Zaurus is powered off, or powered on but idle (no hard disk activity), the orange LED is ON. But when there are some microdrive access, the orange LED blinks...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yes, that is certainly an issue of USB power.
Remember: USB ports of a powered USB device (computer, active hub) are specified to provide 500mA per USB port. The Z needs 800mA (at least this is the requirement for an AC adapter).
You could work around this problem by using two USB plugs in parallel, plugged into two USB ports. Some external USB hard drives are powered that way.
daniel
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Yes, that is certainly an issue of USB power.
Remember: USB ports of a powered USB device (computer, active hub) are specified to provide 500mA per USB port. The Z needs 800mA (at least this is the requirement for an AC adapter).
You could work around this problem by using two USB plugs in parallel, plugged into two USB ports. Some external USB hard drives are powered that way.
daniel
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sorry to bring up an old topic, but .. i believe this topic is still relevant to all of us Z users who might be interested in doing this.
Anyway, my question is, will the electrical potential between the two usb power lines create a problem when no Z is plugged in to the other end? I am not an electrical engineer, so i wouldnt know, but from my own "sense" of understanding things, it will be like two forces pushing against each other (electrons, or "current" wants to flow out) What if the current is unbalanced, with one usb port supplying slight more than the other? will that cause a "pushback" of current into the weaker usb port, thereby potentially causing damage to whatever equipment is behind the weaker usb port? And then what if the two are equal? will it cause any potential "strain", or damage still?
thanks for bearing with my electrical ignorance,
-jf
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sorry to bring up an old topic, but .. i believe this topic is still relevant to all of us Z users who might be interested in doing this.
Anyway, my question is, will the electrical potential between the two usb power lines create a problem when no Z is plugged in to the other end? I am not an electrical engineer, so i wouldnt know, but from my own "sense" of understanding things, it will be like two forces pushing against each other (electrons, or "current" wants to flow out) What if the current is unbalanced, with one usb port supplying slight more than the other? will that cause a "pushback" of current into the weaker usb port, thereby potentially causing damage to whatever equipment is behind the weaker usb port? And then what if the two are equal? will it cause any potential "strain", or damage still?
thanks for bearing with my electrical ignorance,
-jf
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Well, it does not matter if a device is connected or not:
If there is realy a difference in potential, there will be current flow. But the current flows from one USB port with the higher potential to the one with the lower potential. Not through the connected device.
That current flow (or better: The connection of the two terminals with different potential) will make the two potentials on the terminal to the connected device equal. That means, the connected device will not know anything about that current flow / potential problem.
The only problem could be that the voltage on the Zaurus side of the cable will be modified so heavily that it is not suitable anymore for the Zaurus. but that had to mean that at least one of the two involved USB ports must have a voltage way too far from 5V that it can be called an USB port. ;-)
BUT: I seriouly doubt that there can be a significant potential difference between two ports of the same hub, becasue hub manufacturers will use the same voltage regulators for each port. So port voltage difference can only be a matter of component parameter tolerances. Since the ports are designed to stand 500mA, a few mA more or less due to little potential differences are probably neglectible.
However, the point may be important if you connect a Zaurus with such a two-USB-plug cable to to different hubs! I would not do that.
daniel
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Well, it does not matter if a device is connected or not:
If there is realy a difference in potential, there will be current flow. But the current flows from one USB port with the higher potential to the one with the lower potential. Not through the connected device.
That current flow (or better: The connection of the two terminals with different potential) will make the two potentials on the terminal to the connected device equal. That means, the connected device will not know anything about that current flow / potential problem.
The only problem could be that the voltage on the Zaurus side of the cable will be modified so heavily that it is not suitable anymore for the Zaurus. but that had to mean that at least one of the two involved USB ports must have a voltage way too far from 5V that it can be called an USB port. ;-)
BUT: I seriouly doubt that there can be a significant potential difference between two ports of the same hub, becasue hub manufacturers will use the same voltage regulators for each port. So port voltage difference can only be a matter of component parameter tolerances. Since the ports are designed to stand 500mA, a few mA more or less due to little potential differences are probably neglectible.
However, the point may be important if you connect a Zaurus with such a two-USB-plug cable to to different hubs! I would not do that.
daniel
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just to further update/ask a question - what if (i think these devices are available, if i'm not mistaken) we add "one-way resistors" to the wires coming out from each usb port, so that these will help discourage the presence of flowback into any usb port? will this make a viable, or useful "dual-usb" zaurus charger?