OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Sharp Zaurus => Zaurus - pdaXrom => Topic started by: sashz on August 16, 2005, 05:18:14 am
-
Currently and for the last 1.5 years i have been working fulltime on the pdaXrom project but that might not be the case for much longer due to cashflow problems
We need roughly $500 a month to pay all my bills and stay alive and pay for hardwarde/internet/site etc. - the $500 makes it possible for me to work fulltime on the project. Usually each month we get a maximum total of $200 from donations and banner clicks - what normally happens is that Laze pays the difference up to the $500 we need each month to keep everything running. But due to problems with Lazes private economy he can't be paying this difference for the next 4-6 months at least.
So now we are left with two options:
1. We get more donations and banner clicks so the total amount each month reaches the $500. If each user that was active in the forum just donated like $10-20 it would be solved. I know some people donate but not as many that downloads the rom at least Maybe we should make it so you could have a regular subscribtion for each month?
2. I go find a "real" job and thereby i would only me able to work like 1 hour on the pdaXrom project a day and that would not be good for the project. Yes we could find more developers but each time we have tried they work on the project for a week and then they lose interest - so we have decided that i stay the core developer and we have sub-developer making applets/programs etc for the rom.
I of course prefer option 1 so please, please help keep pdaXrom alive and donate today
-
Well thats my donation made.
I think that a regular payment option would be a good idea.
Hope everybody else chips in.
ltrm
-
Hi Laze, Sash and other developers,
YES I'm interested in donating about 50 EURO, but I could not pay it because ikobo and paypal will not accept my credit cards until some weeks ago ...
now I hope to find a solution with paypal, but it will be very helpful to make a normal money transfer ... I live in germany and it will be nice to transfer money to a german bank or bank without transfer costs ...
Good luck and go on developing ...
Martin
-
Martin how about MoneyBrookers https://www.moneybookers.com/app/?rid=633630 (https://www.moneybookers.com/app/?rid=633630)
I don't think you could transfer anything without paying something - it should be pretty easy to transfer money to my danish bank though i think. But please try the other options first.
-
Although I don't use pdaXrom( I have tried it though ), I'll be making a donation since I think it's a cool project and I'd like to see it develop...
Keep up the work chaps
-
Ditto. Just the idea of someone being able to work full-time on a Zaurus ROM is so cool that I'm willing to kick in a few $$ just on general principle
-
I just contributed :-)
I love pdaXrom and when OpenOffice works on it (please developers help us get OpenOffice working on your rom), I know it will be my rom of choice.
I can definitely spare 10 dollars a month for a few months.
ikobo didn't work with my mastercard and threw up tons of errors with my visa, so I had to use paypal.
Good luck!
-
I hope you people don't mind too much if I write this in Russian -- well, I guess you do mind, but I'm just trying to make my message most clear, without any possible misunderstanding I occasionally get when a recepient of mine is trying to decipher something I enciphered , ok?
sashz, тут дело вот в чем. Люди будут жертвовать деньги, только если будут видеть, что это что-то меняет, что что-то происходит, что они не жертвуют их впустую. В данный момент проект pdaxrom, со стороны, по крайней мере, выглядит как полностью замороженный проект без следов какой-либо деятельности. То есть, ничего не происходит: за кучу времени вышел только один RC (хороший, кстати, но только один) -- и больше не произошло ничего вообще. То есть, вообще ничего. Текущий сайт не обновляется, о новом сайте речь вроде и шла, а воз и ныне там. Изредка Laze появляется на форуме и рассказывает о том, что идет напряженная деятельность, и что дескать отсутствие какой-либо информации о ней говорит только о ее напряженности. Но это же нонсенс полный -- люди поверят в напряженную деятельность, только если будут видеть ее результаты -- и чем больше, тем лучше! Но никаких результатов не видно. Так с какой целью люди будут жертвовать, если, несмотря на их предыдущие попытки, проект, наоборот, вообще остановился? Зачем жертвовать, если это ничего не изменяет? Люди при этом пробуют другую стратегию -- раз пожертвования никакого результата не приносят, то, может быть, будет получен какой-либо результат от их отсутствия?
Я что хочу сказать. Если действительно какая-то работа ведется, то она, или как минимум информация о ней должна быть постоянно доступна. Люди любят новости. Люди любят новые фичи. Люди вообще любят, когда что-то проиходит. Тогда при появлении новой фичи можно будет просить их о том, чтобы они чего-нибудь пожертвовали. Но куда лучше вообще сделать систему, где есть список фичей, и каждый желающий может персонально внести сумму, которую он даст за ее выполнение. По каждой фиче должен быть свой тред, в каждый из которых будут поститься апдейты о том, что с фичой происходит. Все эти апдейты также автоматом можно выносить в одну основную ленту новостей. Как только фича сделана, все положенные на нее деньги уходят команде разработчиков. Это будет гораздо лучше. Это вообще будет идеальным вариантом.
Можно также ввести подписку, но, думаю, это будет гораздо хуже.
В общем, коммуникация -- вот что ОЧЕНЬ важно. По сути, люди жертвуют за коммуникацию, частным случаем которой являются новые релизы -- но также и новости, и прочие вещи. А когда люди не жертвуют, а делают вклад в то, что им КОНКРЕТНО необходимо -- это вообще совсем хорошо. Я крайне настоятельно мог бы порекомендовать подумать над предложенной bounty-системой, где люди вносят вклады за фичи. По-моему, это было бы САМЫМ лучшим вариантом для проекта сейчас. Если же продолжать политику о том, что дескать, "нам нужны деньги, а дальше уж мы там сами как-нибудь", то проект, скорее всего, загнется.
Все это -- на уровне простого совета. Надеюсь, я достаточно адекватно смог высказать свои мысли. Спасибо за понимание.
-
i will originate donation in china for X as soon as.
-
I donated last month and I'm willing to donate another 50$ once a C3k version is available.
Maybe it would make sense to split the donations to the various projects e.g.
- C3k Port 250$
- C3100 Port 10$
- OpenOffice 75$
As the development effort would thus be transparently invested in the various sub-projects this might attract more donations for the highly requested projects.
what do you think?
regards, Philippe
-
I'd certainly contribute more regularly if there was more obvious form of feedback as to what work was being done.
I'd love to see a pdaXrom timeline and a list of goals for each up coming release.
If pdaXrom users could help to shape the direction of the rom and the apps which run on it, I think that would encourage more money from said users. The users who contribute could be allowed to vote for changes, apps, etc.
We users would be the clients for you, the developers.
Ideally, by keeping us users happy, you get the money you need in order to add the things to pdaXrom that you, the developers want for it too.
Hope that seems logical.
-
I think ikm and omro have a very sound idea.
-albertr
-
Did you receive a donation of roughly $80 two weeks ago by moneybookers from lionel-shopping@somedomain? I monitored the donat-o-meter but didn't see anything matching my donation (went from $35 to $95 by $30 steps last time I checked, today it is at $220).
-
I think ikm and omro have a very sound idea.
-albertr
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Anyone able to translate what ikm said?
Would be curious to hear what Laze and Sashz have to say in response to my suggestion, as that is really up to them if they're willing.
-
gyver got it - thank you - the donation meter is reset each month.
Me and sash will post a timeline but the "problem" is that sash is just like me - often something more interesting than fixing a stupid bug arrives.
But as right now we are working on finishing the latest 10.4 for all the different platforms (looking into the latest different models too) and at the same time Sash is struggeling with the new X system for the embedded platform with heavy accelration on many thing.
Openoffice is bascially very "hard" due to manu things including the library problems and java includes etc.
As always we are planning on making different projects/bugs you can donate towards but if for example you wan't to quickly see a C31k you can just "mark" you donation in the comment and write something like "Please work on a C3k1 version" - which many people already do.
IKM: I have tried to translate your text and i agree - i will look into it today - actually i have a weeks holliday this week and hopefully we can get the new site running. One part of it will be Sash writing a weekly blog about progress/activity.
-
Anyone able to translate what ikm said?
He complain about lack of some kind of feedback from developers. He said, iIt looks like pdaXrom is dead project -- no new version, news. Old site.
People like new stuff, news and other activity, and ready to pay for it. It's hard to decide to pay for project which seems to be dead.
In short, this is that ikm said.
I think, I agree with him in general.
-
Anyone able to translate what ikm said?Â
He complain about lack of some kind of feedback from developers. He said, iIt looks like pdaXrom is dead project -- no new version, news. Old site.
People like new stuff, news and other activity, and ready to pay for it. It's hard to decide to pay for project which seems to be dead.
In short, this is that ikm said.
I think, I agree with him in general.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92018\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I love pdaXrom, I'd be perfectly happy to get involved as an administrative point of contact between the developers and the users, help to publish the feedback, goals, milestones, update the website, etc etc etc. If that would help the developers to develop and drum up enthusiasm for the project. If Laze and Sashz would let me get involved that is.
-
i donate 20$ for the first month
and 10$ each month for 6 months
i hope everybody can make something like this to keep the project alive
-
agree with ikm, guys, show us what are you doing, and what are you planning to do
-
My suggestion to keep pdaXrom more alive would be to accept more help from other people. For example, I think you should delegate the task of managing the ipk feeds and focus on the core developpment (kernel, X server, hardware). Of course the pdabuilder helps a lot, but still, it may be good to have someone to take care of keeping all pacakges up to date, port and compile new versions and post new programs (ie merge the "user contributed" feed, which has great stuff inside but is mostly outdated, and the official feeds in a single pdaX feed). Of course, I volunteer to do the job. I can even offer to host the files on my server.
Otherwise, maybe it would be better to delegate website and doc-related works or maybe create a Wiki ?
-
IKM: I have tried to translate your text and i agree - i will look into it today - actually i have a weeks holliday this week and hopefully we can get the new site running. One part of it will be Sash writing a weekly blog about progress/activity.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92017\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I whole heartedly agree that updates to the website in the form of a developers' blog would be a great idea & keep interest & donations up (I just made another donation & will try and be more regular contributing)
Keep up the great work!
Cheers,
Jerry
-
When i get around to finishing the new website all developers can upload and upgrade ipks with new versions. The biggest problem will probally be people uploading broken versions but lets look at that when we get the site up and running.
-
Nevermind i will pay all the future development costs and buy all the needed hardware as soon i get my check... :-) Just got this e-mail:
UROMILONES PRIMITIVA
GRAN V?A RAM?N y CAJAL, 13
28002 ? MADRID SPAIN
TEL:+34 695 871 590
FROM THE DESK OF THE
AWARD DEPARTMENT.
Date: 13 August 2005
REF FILE N?: CE/962/11/M
BATCH N ?:EU/625-22-10
RESULTS FOR "3RD" CATEGORY
ATTENTION: SIR/MADAM,
WE are pleased to inform you of the release of the results of EUROMILLONE LOTTERY PRIMITIVA NATIONAL/ INTERNACIONAL PROGRAM held on the 20TH JULY, 2005. SPAIN
Your individual/company email was attached to ticket number 210-585-666 with serial number 22-236 which drew to the lucky number EU-258 44-212-30, which consequently won the lottery in the 3rd category.You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay out of ? 215,510.(TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN EURO ONLY) in cash credited to BATCH N?: EU/625-22-10
This is from a total cash prize of ? 3,448,160.00 (THREE MILLION FOUR HUNDRED AND FOURTY EIGHT THOUSAND,ONE HUNDERD AND SIXTY EURO ONLY) shared among the seventeen international winners in this category. CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Your fund is now deposited with a security company insured in your name under a fixed bond insurance policy. We ask that you should keep this award from public notice until your claim has been processed or until your money has been remitted into your nominated account, As part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unwarranted taking advantage of this program by participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from over 25,000 companies and 25,000, individual email addresses and names from all over the world.
-
Only 215,510? The corrupted goverment officials from Niger never offered me less than a few mils Guess they don't use pdaXrom in Africa...
-albertr
-
one quick question, is there a 3100, pdax in the future? Can I "pay" for the developement of this? I would be willing to discuss a monthly fee for the next few years, if thats a possibility. I will make a one time donation, I gotta say pdax is just so cool looking, love to see where it goes.
-
Ahahah, I love those scams, but my all time favorites are the "I'm a millionaire in Panama but I'll die soon so I need your accout to deposit my fortune please give me your bank number thanks"
Back to the IPK problem ; you should keep old versions of apps even if a newer one was uploaded, and leave a "broken version" link to report non working software. Having old release is also a good idea if there are some brocken backward compatibility with other softwares. Nice progress, though, I'm waiting for the new website with tons of ipks to post.
-
maxq - execellent idea :-)
If anyone wants a specific hardware running pdaXrom normally they can just send me the hardware and normally in a month or so it will be running pdaXrom - but please don't send toasters and microwaves - we have tried but must admit we have failed.
And good news btw. i think i found the CMS system thats easy to use but also flexible enough - im currently testing it a bit more but i think we found a winner in phpwcms.
-
maybe trisoft or streamline would consider a wholesale purchase for such hardware? I figure there has to be at least 10+ people with 1000/3000/3100 that want pdaxrom for thier units, I would be willing to toss in 75.00 for the purchase of a wholesale unit from trisoft or streamline. Maybe setup a paypal account for just this thing, separate from the monthly expense donations.
-
I'm very glad to see you guys are still around.
It gives me a sense that sharp is not the only one trying to keep zaurus alive and someone else is diving in helping out in the effort of promoting linux as a portable power house.
now only if i can print from my zaurus.
-
Sashz is happy turning out the best software for the Z I've run across, and I for one have made another donation to keep him that way. Here's hoping he never has to get a "real" job.
I like the idea of a monthly subscription (voluntary of course) and suggested something similar a while ago. I still think it would be the best way to have a fairly dependable monthly inflow. A hundred people contributing $5-10/month should be achievable and save Laze and Sashz having to flog us for contributions as much. (They show a lot more restraint than some in the computer world) A subscription is very easy to set up on PayPal. There would be some small percentage lost in fees, but well worth it to the project in the long run I would expect.
Laze -- PM me where and how to ship you some hardware that I'd like to "just work" on pdaXrom.
-
Hardware should be sent to:
Mikkel Skovgaard Soerensen
Danmarksgade 96, 4 th
9000 Aalborg
Denmark
-
Laze,
I see you submitted a Project Registration Inquiry to Sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=1&atid=200001&func=detail&aid=929156project) a year ago, but it was closed (why?) and I could not find any discussion about it on the forums.
So my question is: why not use the ready infrastructure at Sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net) or Berlioz (http://developer.berlios.de) or any other site specifically created for development of open source?
Why not open a pdaXrom project there with you (and Sash) as admin?
I see these specific advantages for pdaXrom:- Web site structure, downloads, feature request/bug tracking are automatically and profesionally taken care of so plenty manual work and financial charges are spared.
- The source code repository is public, so anybody at any time can see what exactly is worked on at the moment. Access rights can be configured, so permanent contributors may easily participate. (I personally am thinking of writing some programs, but I am not doing it because the need to publish the code, version it and pack it takes too much time and additional effort on my own).
- More people, who already said they want can get involved and distribute the load (Zumi, maxg, omro etc.) -- one responsible for the docs or content of the web site, another for maintaining the Bugzilla database (updating status, removing duplicates, editing etc), still another for releases etc.
- Donations are taken care of, and they may be for a specific person/task -- as cattin and ikm suggest.
- The whole infrastructure gives automatically enough information about the current status of the project, so there is no need to write separate documents for it. In addition, any developer can maintain his own Diary at the site -- just as you and jerrybme propose. Specific questions could be answered here at the Forum just as now or, if very specialized -- in a specific mailing list.
I see one possible drawback -- financing through banners/google syndication would not be possible. However, will we need that at all then?
The current Forum here at OESF may be used as the official forum. The current site at pdaXrom.org may still continue to exist or be served via VHOST (that is, all requests to pdaXrom.org are forwarded to the sourceforge site).
I am not sure the cross-compile SDK might be so easily set up at Sourceforge (although certainly possible), but the transfer of anything else should not take more than a week. However, after an initial phase of transformation, adding new content/code will take much less time and will be distributed -- so actually you and Sash will have much less to do about tedious, uninteresting tasks, and much more time for interesting for you topics.
The whole idea is in no way a new one and many Zaurus-related projects (XQT-Server, OZ etc) are using it since long ago successfully.
So, why not? I might be missing something very important -- what is it?
Rgs,
--
Svetlin
-
Hi,
I'm definitely up for sending money to you via paypal, however I very much agree with the others here. A developer blog so we could see what was going on would be wonderful.
A
-
Will we, as paying contributors, be able to have a say in the steering of pdaXrom? I don't wish to say bad things about the other roms, cause some of them are seriously impressive, but they're always more focussed on what the developer wants on the rom, rather than what the user wants on the rom.
If you says to us that those who regularly contribute a monthly subscription fee can be on a steering committee of sorts to be involved in choices like and assigning priority too
which bugs need to be fixed,
which features need to be added,
which apps need to be ported,
etc
I think that would encourage me to contribute regularly, because I would know I was having my needs catered for.
You developers are doing a great job, but if you want your userbase to support you, unlike some of the other roms, you really need to incorporate user feedback more readily, ok it will mean spending time doing things you might not exactly want to do, but it will also finance you doing the things you do want to do.
Who else agrees with this?
-
You developers are doing a great job, but if you want your userbase to support you, unlike some of the other roms, you really need to incorporate user feedback more readily, ok it will mean spending time doing things you might not exactly want to do, but it will also finance you doing the things you do want to do.
Who else agrees with this?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Me!
A small webapp where contributing users can add requests, the developpers can price them and the users can split their contributions (set by the devs when the money is received) amongs requests would be ideal.
-
A ROM is not just the sum of a bunch of individual requests. The developers should have flexibility in how the ROM develops.
I would propose two ways to contribute:
- A general contribution with the ability to indicate what features are a priority to you
- A bounty system where users commit that if certain features are implemented - by the core team or others - they will pay out the bounty.
-
All people who like PdaXrom have to donate regularly. I mean look at how fast development has gone on PdaXrom, the resulting ROM is really promising. We have a good team of talented, passionate and friendly developpers. The Z's life-time is so short before we buy a new one. We absolutely need full time developpers.
I agree with Omro to have more User centric packages instead of developper centric as we don't spend money for software contrary to PocketPC and Palm. Right now there are not a lot of user centric packages in the feed.
However we don't need a lot. I prefer not a lot of packages but very good ones. I have to say that the available user centric packages are well chosen so far. For example ROX file manager is the best user friendly-full-featured file manager I have ever seen in all other ROMS even better than TreeexplorerQT Plus edition which costs $17, same goes for abiword, gnumeric, gQview, sylpheed,...When I think that I spent $30 for TextMaker on SharpROM (what a mistake, doesn't install well, interface ugly and unituitive, open file manager unuseable, memory hungry, ...)
On the other hand, these great apps are very powerful and as a consequence I also want my money spent for graphic acceleration, speed in general, better hardware support for various CF/USB devices, and this is the hardest/longest/trickiest part.
I trust the PdaXrom team to do a very good job with our money.
-
My present priority is for Cacko ROM for the C1000 but I love to watch progress on the PdaXrom. So much so that I donated about 6 months ago.
Count me in on contributions, the simplest proposal in the thread was for $20 now and $10 a month for 6 months. This is more than sashz requested but is fine by me.
Are we up for this?
-
Hey quick status update... Im spending my one week holliday(to much regret of my girlfriend) working on the new site and i can promise that it will be finished within the end of this week. Mostly all your requested features will be included - i think this will be one the biggest thing happing for the pdaXrom for a long time - except big releases of course.
So please be patient for a couple of days and then we start optimizing and discussing it - then i will start a thread for input/feedback and hunt for new co-webmasters.
Until then please don't IM/PM/E-mails me to death i know there is a lot of people willing to help and you will get your chance very soon.
Regarding SF hosting etc. i have tried many different things - i prefer having my own hardware and full control.
-
I agree with Omro to have more User centric packages instead of developper centric as we don't spend money for software contrary to PocketPC and Palm. Right now there are not a lot of user centric packages in the feed.
However we don't need a lot. I prefer not a lot of packages but very good ones. I have to say that the available user centric packages are well chosen so far. For example ROX file manager is the best user friendly-full-featured file manager I have ever seen in all other ROMS even better than TreeexplorerQT Plus edition which costs $17, same goes for abiword, gnumeric, gQview, sylpheed,...When I think that I spent $30 for TextMaker on SharpROM (what a mistake, doesn't install well, interface ugly and unituitive, open file manager unuseable, memory hungry, ...)
On the other hand, these great apps are very powerful and as a consequence I also want my money spent for graphic acceleration, speed in general, better hardware support for various CF/USB devices, and this is the hardest/longest/trickiest part.
I trust the PdaXrom team to do a very good job with our money.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I totally agree with this. To make the Rom more "user friendly" wouldn't really take that much. If there was a user group, a steering committee of users who worked out the core apps they needed and core things that would make the rom more user centric, then once that was done, the developers could do the things they wanted.
You could even split the rom into a pdaXrom (user version) pdaXrom (developer version).
Lots of distributions have two variants, one more for general people and one more for power users.
The goal of pdaXrom should be to widen the user base by making it as user friendly as possible. And no offence to the developers, you need user feedback and user involvement, we know what we want and we know what we want to see. We can more easily tell you the core apps and features we need to make this amazing rom, even more so.
It's almost there, really it is. Just let us guide you, take the time to hear us and you'll see our appreciation in terms of contributions and support and cheerleading and your userbase will grow.
This is not a threat, just a fact, if you don't pay attention to us, this support will probably wane very quickly if people think "why bother giving these guys money? They don't listen."
-
The developers seem to be doing very nicely so far. But if it is a simple matter of getting more people to compile and test more apps....
-
When we get around to it we will be releasing a prepacked version and stripped down version out any preinstalled apps (might not even have a window manager). We don't need no comitee to tell us what to do - if you need a certain program just compile it. Might sound a bit harsh but with the big work load on our shoulders already we don't need people crying for a certain game - just look at some of the forum posts lately.
This can be handled by anybody with a bit of programming skills... We just want to make a good and solid "base" for everything else.
-
When we get around to it we will be releasing a prepacked version and stripped down version out any preinstalled apps (might not even have a window manager). We don't need no comitee to tell us what to do - if you need a certain program just compile it. Might sound a bit harsh but with the big work load on our shoulders already we don't need people crying for a certain game - just look at some of the forum posts lately.
This can be handled by anybody with a bit of programming skills... We just want to make a good and solid "base" for everything else.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually that is a little bit harsh as no one has even mentioned games in this post. I'd be surprised if most people decide to use pdaXrom for it's game playing abilities. Making people interested in a rom is actually less about the under pinings, which are important, but people get enthusiastic about a rom for the user experience, the out of the box experience. That requires a core set of APPLICATIONS and FEATURES which frankly, are currently lacking. People use pdaXrom and think cool, wow so promising, but they soon flash back. You're losing people because you're not catering for them. THAT'S what a steering committee would help you address.
I've already suggested a user oriented variant and a developer oriented variant. Just allow a steering committe to tell you what we would like you to put in the user oriented variant and help to set that up and you can do what the heck you like with the other variant, safe in the knowledge that you'll get contributions and as long as the user variant is kept up to date underneath and the applications are refreshed whenever newer and better versions come out. Surely that can't be too much to ask.
If people have just arrived at pdaXrom for the first time, many don't know how to compile apps, so how can you say that? There is a dearth of information and assistance out there and there need to be clear tutorials and instructions. Hopefully the new site will address this.
The average user doesn't want to compile their own apps. I wish linux people would get that into their heads. Not everyone is technically minded and being told they have to compile an application, just to even try it, is going to put people off. And you'll lose interest before you even start.
My idea for a committee isn't meant to be intrusive. It's just to provide a user based focus. You don't even have to be involved until we're ready to pass on our requests to you. They would determine a core set of apps and features we'd like to see. We'd ask you to incorporate them for the next release. Every 3 months or so, the core application set could be reviewed by the committee and if they say, based on user feed back "xyz-app" should be included as well, they it should and if "pqr-app" isn't being used, then it could be removed and "fgh-feature" could be improved by doing "def", then perhaps focus could be placed on that and these could be incorporated into each future realease and you'd just have to post information stating your progress with each of our requests in the same way as you're planning to do with the blog. Lots of projects work this way. That can't be too much to request, either?
Look, it's this simple. You've asked for user's money, it's been given. And you're asking for money to continue to be given, but you have to give something back in terms of control. You can't expect to just carry on doing things the way you've done them, if that had been working you'd not have needed to, in essence, beg for our money. You may not like it, but by giving you money, we're effectively employing you to develop for us. We could quite easily club together and employ someone else or stop giving you money. You don't own pdaXrom, it's linux, it's opensource, it could be forked. Etc.
We are grateful that you developers have created this rom, so please don't take any offence over what I've just said because I'm just stating my views and offering you a warning based on other examples I've read from the linux world. But you need to show a little bit more gratitude towards us users for giving you our hard earnt money or you annoy a lot of people and they'll stop contributing and you'll be back where you started.
You've an opportunity here to create a great deal of enthusiasm and support and you're not capitalising on it.
-
I do agree with Omro here - pdaXrom is an awesome rom, and you guys have done fantastic work on it. And given the responses in this thread many people (including myself) are willing to set up a monthly subscription donation, ie. the community would effectively be employing you full time. So its only fair that the money given goes into what is needed.
The whole point of a steering committee would be to act as a buffer between the developers and the community at large, so you don't have to deal with one or two people asking for certain games etc, the committee does. Like wise the committee could explain why the developers are doing certain things to the masses.
I think its an excellent idea to make pdaXrom an even better rom. Control of it certainly wouldn't be taken away from you, we'd just be able to help point you in the direction that would be beneficial to most people
Thanks
A
-
I guess I'm in the minority here but nothing would cause me to give up on pdaXrom quicker than seeing it be run by a "committee". I've been an engineer for many years and I've seen over and over how "design by committee" produces consistantly poor quality. You want one tallented visionary in the driver's seat with the freedom to follow his or her vision. Not that user input is not important, but aside from voicing their desires, user's should have no "control" over core development.
Applications need to be secondary, Sash needs to stay focused on stabilizing and refining the Linux "core" within the ROM. Relatively speaking, anyone can port apps. Very few people are qualified to do the low-level nuts and bolts work. And all the great apps in the world won't help a bit if the core isn't stable, complete, and fast. Similarly, every engineer knows you stay focussed on *one* platform. When you've achieved the desired level of completeness and stability there, only then to you devote significant effort to migrating your stable baseline to other platforms.
What I've seen so far tells me that Sash clearly knows what he's doing. Donations should be thought of as just that ... not "buying shares in the pdaXrom company" so you can vote on its direction. Just my $0.02.
-
I guess I'm in the minority here but nothing would cause me to give up on pdaXrom quicker than seeing it be run by a "committee". I've been an engineer for many years and I've seen over and over how "design by committee" produces consistantly poor quality. You want one tallented visionary in the driver's seat with the freedom to follow his or her vision. Not that user input is not important, but aside from voicing their desires, user's should have no "control" over core development.
Applications need to be secondary, Sash needs to stay focused on stabilizing and refining the Linux "core" within the ROM. Relatively speaking, anyone can port apps. Very few people are qualified to do the low-level nuts and bolts work. And all the great apps in the world won't help a bit if the core isn't stable, complete, and fast. Similarly, every engineer knows you stay focussed on *one* platform. When you've achieved the desired level of completeness and stability there, only then to you devote significant effort to migrating your stable baseline to other platforms.
What I've seen so far tells me that Sash clearly knows what he's doing. Donations should be thought of as just that ... not "buying shares in the pdaXrom company" so you can vote on its direction. Just my $0.02.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92307\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I don't think you entirely read what I wrote about my idea for what the committee would do. My intention wasn't to take over or interfere, but just to improve the user experience.
Also. They aren't asking for one off donations. And they aren't a charity. They're asking for continuous, monthly contributions. That's a totally different request. And as such demands a change in the way things are done. I don't wish to be rude, but if Sash want us to pay for him not to have to get a proper job, then surely he works for us? I'd love to be paid by people to just do exactly what I want without having to do anything but the things I want to do, but oddly enough I live in the real world. So if he wants our money, he's got to listen to those who pay him. No such thing as a free lunch and all that.
I don't mind a one off donation and I have provided one, because I think pdaXrom is great. I really do and you guys who have created this. You're awesome, I'm not knocking you. But if things stay as they are, I won't bother to contribute more because I'm not being listened to and I want to feel like my money is appreciated and making a difference.
-
There is no need for any kind of a commitee. An open market would be much better: people demand something and offer to pay some sum of money for it -- developers look if it suites them. If people want games, that would be games. In this case, if developers wouldn't be interested in compiling games, the people who wanted 'em might decide to forfeit the idea, or to raise the bounty for the task instead. And so on. The developers may also initiate the proccess -- by offering some feature and looking if it is worth doing, if there is an interest. That's how the world lives, most natural and efficient.
I understand that this would not guarantee a particular $500/mo, but that would be depending solely on the developers, so they would need to be doing the best -- and then they could acually get above the mentioned $500 barrier. This is most fair for both the users and developers -- what is paid is for actual work on the actual demanding things.
-
There is no need for any kind of a commitee. An open market would be much better: people demand something and offer to pay some sum of money for it -- developers look if it suites them. If people want games, that would be games. In this case, if developers wouldn't be interested in compiling games, the people who wanted 'em might decide to forfeit the idea, or to raise the bounty for the task instead. And so on. The developers may also initiate the proccess -- by offering some feature and looking if it is worth doing, if there is an interest. That's how the world lives, most natural and efficient.
I understand that this would not guarantee a particular $500/mo, but that would be depending solely on the developers, so they would need to be doing the best -- and then they could acually get above the mentioned $500 barrier. This is most fair for both the users and developers -- what is paid is for actual work on the actual demanding things.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92314\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
My suggested method was an attempt as fairness, so that the developers get a monthly sum to develop the core as well as the user-centric side.
The bounty method deprives the developers of money to develop the core and opens up the money to other people. So the developers would be back to square one (penniless) and forced to attempt to claim the bounties faster than someone else in order to even have any money for core development.
If that's what it's going to take inorder to get what is wanted, who's in favour of with holding all future donations, drawing up a list of core things for a bounty process and then if the developers want our money, they can do what we ask of them? I really don't like this method, but if that's what it takes to be heard.
-
A few random thoughts from a newbie.
I bought a SL-C860 two weeks ago because I stumbled across this rom by accident and thought to myself "wow, this is exactally what I wanted my old pda (axim x30h) to do... work as a mini-laptop".
I tried the other roms just to get a fair comparison and although Cacko is a very nice PIM/PDA replacement it didn't have the 'mini-laptop' feel, thus RC10 is currently installed.
With the help of many users posting on these fourms I was able to get near everything I wanted up and running after only a few days, so cudos to the community. I have been very impressed and happy thus far.
Then I saw this post saying how the developer needed some donations to keep things going. Without hesitation I was going to send some money but didn't have my CC on me to setup an account so had to wait til later in the day.
After logging in I then started reading replys from people saying they would like more feedback and status updates if they were going to donate, which I agreed with, but also knew a improved web presence was in the works so not too concerned.
But then as I continued to read others started putting stipulations on their donations like their money had to be used for SL-C1000 / 3000 / 5500 development (which I don't have) and though " I don't want to give money to a project that doesn't effect my model anymore " so continued on.
Then others had restrictions of how their donations had to be used to make applications work with the rom. Again, puzzeled because all the tools you need to do that for yourself are provided, which is a GREAT thing. It was argued that some supporters may not have the knowledge needed to compile their own apps, and if this is true then pdaXrom is probably not your best rom choice (refer back to Cacko).
On top of that suggestions of committees and bounties... what for? pdaXrom is, as I've gotten the impression from reading many many posts, a rom replacement with a very nice operating system complete with development tools. Period. The goal is simple, continue to develop this base system while making it available on more hardware (1000/3000/5500/etc) and updating compatablilty with various hardware accessories (CF devices, USB, etc) on existing platforms (7x0,860,etc).
----
Some of the other ideas have valid points and of cousre I would like to see more applications just readily available, but that sounds like a TOTALLY different project to me from pdaXrom core, and maybe should be considered so. There seems to be enough passionate individuals here with the knowledge needed to set that up. Keep Laze and Sashz in the core development, which obviously they are great at, and fill in some of the blanks yourself... isn't that what opensource is all about?
-
TheWalt makes all very good points.
I suggested bounties as an additional process in addition to contributing to the core ROM.
I suggested it because as an open source developer I like bounties. it gives me an incentive but also a choice. I don't have to go for the bounty but if I do then I get the incentive. Or maybe someone else will and that is just as good. It doesn't put money in my pockets but it advances the software.
I also think that setting up a process where other developers (as you suggest) can fill in the blanks around the ROM would help stimulate the community (though as omro says it doesn't help Sash pay the bills).
For those of you who haven't maintained an open source project, you don't realize the constant barrage of requests. Some come on the forums or mailing lists but often they are just emails that say someone can't compile or ask if it is possible to add some feature. Many of these people never contribute and when you help them change the code half the time they go away and never even provide patches back. You need to have the flexibility to work on your own vision or else you just end up in support mode all the time.
-
TheWalt makes all very good points.
I suggested bounties as an additional process in addition to contributing to the core ROM.
I suggested it because as an open source developer I like bounties. it gives me an incentive but also a choice. I don't have to go for the bounty but if I do then I get the incentive. Or maybe someone else will and that is just as good. It doesn't put money in my pockets but it advances the software.
I also think that setting up a process where other developers (as you suggest) can fill in the blanks around the ROM would help stimulate the community (though as omro says it doesn't help Sash pay the bills).
For those of you who haven't maintained an open source project, you don't realize the constant barrage of requests. Some come on the forums or mailing lists but often they are just emails that say someone can't compile or ask if it is possible to add some feature. Many of these people never contribute and when you help them change the code half the time they go away and never even provide patches back. You need to have the flexibility to work on your own vision or else you just end up in support mode all the time.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92325\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have offered to assist as a liason between the developers and all the bombardment of requests. But as yet no response to that suggestion.
And let me just re-iterate here why I think we need to have more user steering.
We're being asked to support someone so that they don't have to get a paying job. We're effectively being asked to employ him.
You don't employ someone and then let them sit in a corner and do what they want. You give your employee tasks, goals and objectives.
I'm not trying to spoil his fun, but you don't get money for nothing and you don't get money to just do what you want.
-
I don't post often but this thread really made me feel the need.
If you don't care for the direction theproject is moving, or what the guys are working on, or that your particular model lacks support for something - start your own project.
The only reason to donate to pdaXrom is because you like the product and want the guys to be able to dedicate time to it. The software is free, you're not buying it. You're not buying stock in a public company you're allowing FOSS developers to continue to do what they love and you're reaping the benefits of their labor. If you can't understand this then you really don't get what Free Software is all about and it would probably be better if you didn't donate at all.
If they spend all the money on beer but continue to do the same great work, who's to argue?
If you see the need for this project to go in a different direction then form your committee, grab the source, and just go ahead and do it. I'm sure you can find developers who would be willing to join and work under your guidlines. Who knows? You might wind up as another Linus. Of course you could also wind up as another BillG.
Perhaps the steering committee should go on sabbatical for twelve to eighteen months to work out all of the details of what needs to be accomplished and get a firm business plan in place. Then they can return and be amazed at what has been accomplished in their absence, and without their interference.
Don't mess with success. The reason the rom is so good is because of the guys that did it. And yes, I donate to the project with no stipulations. If progress stops then so do I, but as long as they're forging ahead I'll keep donating what I can free of any strings.
-
My suggested method was an attempt as fairness, so that the developers get a monthly sum to develop the core as well as the user-centric side.
The bounty method deprives the developers of money to develop the core and opens up the money to other people. So the developers would be back to square one (penniless) and forced to attempt to claim the bounties faster than someone else in order to even have any money for core development.
If that's what it's going to take inorder to get what is wanted, who's in favour of with holding all future donations, drawing up a list of core things for a bounty process and then if the developers want our money, they can do what we ask of them? I really don't like this method, but if that's what it takes to be heard.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Ok, it seems you didn't understand. I am not talking about inviting any off-side developers to participate in the bounty system. I would like to remind you that here, in this thread we are trying to work out a finance problem the current pdaXrom developers (sashz and Laze) have. We are not talking about any other developers! We need to get sashz and Laze some money, ok? So, I suggest only sashz and Laze participate in the bounty system as developers. Not anyone else. So the bounty method doesn't deprive money, quite the contrary -- it draws it. That's what it is suggested for.
Second, the development of the core most certainly includes a set of tasks, just like a development of anything else. For instance, support for new model XXX, support for VFP (done already!:), support for xrandr extension (done already!:), support for xvidmode extension (well, I think this is one currently missing) -- these all are tasks (features) too. Answering to the question on who's in favor of drawing up list of these -- both developers and users. They both may file them. For instance, the developers may know what an 'xvidmode' extension is -- then THEY file a feauture request, describing what that is and what merits does it have -- and asking if that is needed, if there is a monetary interest. Both users and developers (developers = Laze and sashz at the moment, as I said) would do so.
When we talk about a bounty system, we don't talk about other developers. The goal is to draw money to the core developers, not to anyone else. The bounty system would do so. And the bountry system would cover any aspect of development. All of them.
There is no need for any commitee. I understand you would like to be a part of it, but that solely is not the reason to build one.
-
There is no need for any commitee. I understand you would like to be a part of it, but that solely is not the reason to build one.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92334\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually I couldn't care less if I was a member of a steering committee for pdaXrom or not. I just care that my money is spent making pdaXrom better for me and people like me and not just to fund someone's desire to earn money for doing what only they want to do and not what's needed.
Perhaps the steering committee should go on sabbatical for twelve to eighteen months to work out all of the details of what needs to be accomplished and get a firm business plan in place. Then they can return and be amazed at what has been accomplished in their absence, and without their interference.
If people donate money to pdaXrom and discover it's not actually getting visibly better in the ways they want it to do so, they won't contribute more money. That's what I'm saying. If people feel they have a say, they'll be more willing to contribute. If I feel like I don't have a say and I know now that many people want a say also, I am pretty sure a large number of regular contributors will be lost.
If people aren't encouraged to contribute regularly, money will dry up, the developers will be back where they started and in 12/18 months, there'll be no real progress as the key developers will have had to get proper jobs in order to live and their time on pdaXrom will have diminished.
Do we really know how much dedicated development has been made in the last 12/18 months?
I'm not interested in derailing the project or setting up a competitor, I'm interested in getting these developers more money, but on the condition they don't just sit their drinking beer, cause I wish I could just just post a thread on a forum asking for money and spend the day drinking beer, but actually, no I have a job and live in the real world. And so do they. You don't get money for nothing and people who give money for nothing are just wasting their money.
I have given money to this project and I'm prepared to give more. I gave money because the work thus far seems outstanding, this rom is way better than any other. I'm prepared to give more money, just not unconditionally. I'd rather just increase my monthly contributions to cancer research uk.
BTW, if you are in the Uk and don't contribute to cancer research UK, please consider it, 1 in 3 people are struck with a form of cancer these days. Real charities need your money. If you're not in the UK, please give money to your own local cancer research/care charity. Bit of a tangent, but an important one.
-
omro, you are so interested about how your money can improve the pdaxom
did you ever donate for all the work they already did?
i just would like to point that pdaxrom is not a new project, this project was imho perfectly driven, and i don't see any argument to change this
so for my case, i never donate and i use the rom, so laze have money problem, i repair my lack of pay. And i dont ask how the money is used, and even if i've specified a preference for evolution, i've never say that the team must follow this guideline.
This is their project, if you don't like it, fork or find another (it is not because it's linux that their work is free, and it is not because of opensource that is free, and it is not because of the GPL that is free, it is only because they want to)
-
I think a committee is too much. It's not a company, we are not their boss, it's fun, we are not buying stock options, we are in a free open source system.
If you like the work done, you give money.
If later on you are disappointed because you don't like the direction the project takes, you don't give anymore. Sure you will be pist off because you gave money to a project that doesn't suit you anymore but you have to take the risk.
I give money BECAUSE I like it, and not, I give money SO THAT I will like it as a investment.
It seems that they work a lot by looking at the speed of the progress. If I can make them happy in spending my money drinking beer, I am happy to donate, it's a present offered to them 'cause they make me happy using their ROM.
I am not good at Linux, I just like alternatives and I am curious about new things, so I don't know how hard it is to compile a program. That said, I know it's much much harder to do core development, dealing with hardware, ...
I hate people who tell me what to do, usually I just end up doing a bad job just to pist them off. So I think it's good and more efficient to let them what they like to do, it's a pasion, that's all.
I have no doubt about the progress on hardware side, I just hope there we will be enough skilled people to compile apps.
So let's give money, wait and be amazed by the new website and new LiveCD.
-
I use pdaXrom on my C1000 and it's absolutely great. The reason it's great is that the core group (mainly, I'm guessing, sashz and laze) have made good decisions about where the project should go. I've taken a good look at what they've done, especially sashz's work on the the basic guts of the rom, and it's very impressive. Because of this, I've donated. And I'll donate again... and I'll let them make the decisions as to where the rom should go because so far they've been doing a great job.
By donating you're not "employing" sashz & crew. You're supporting a project. If that project doesn't go exactly where you want it to, start a new project... everything that makes up the pdaXrom is available freely. I keep seeing people who want OpenOffice or other applications... the SDK is available. If you can't compile it, find someone who can. Or find someone who will accept a bounty to compile it for you. If a bounty system is created it should be open to anyone and everyone... that's the only way things will get done. It's worked well for the gnome folks, I think.
Anyhow, those are my thoughts. The Zaurus is a special breed of PDA... it's an awesome platform, but it takes a lot of hard work from folks to make it as cool as it is. The pdaXrom group is doing that. The OpenEmbedded, OpenZaurus, and GPE folks are, too. Thanks for all the hard work.
jason
-
I appreciate the desires of some for current users to have a degree of actual control over the direction of pdaXrom, but I don't think it is realistic. The users are often not in a position to fully appreciate the time and technical difficulties and trade-offs implementing their priorities as users might involve, for example in making Open Office really usable (not just run in slow motion without crashing a lot). The developers may also be pursuing other business opportunities for pdaXrom which they have to keep confidential but which must be taken into account in allocating development priorities.
A user group working up priorities and recommendations for features and bug fixes sounds great. Voluntary incentives such as bounties have proved successful in some projects. And more frequent roadmaps and explanations for the choices made by the developers will be very welcome.
I think mutual persuasion and support is probably the best way to keep pdaXrom moving in the directions users want for now. The developers have demonstrated their desire to make a broadly useful as well as technologically sophisticated ROM. That's why so many people are here now in this forum discussing where pdaXrom should be enhanced next.
-
omro, you are so interested about how your money can improve the pdaxom
did you ever donate for all the work they already did?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92341\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yes I have and I've mentioned that I have more than once, this is the only Zaurus project I have donated to. I donated $50 the second I read the first post from Sashz, as a thanks for all the hard work that has been done in the past. And I don't even use pdaXrom day to day yet, because it's not able to do the things I need it to do yet, but it's the most likely candidate to be able to.
I think pdaXrom is an amazing Rom, the best for the Zaurus infact. I think the developers have done an incredible job. I don't deny that in the slightest.
All I'm trying to do is point out that you can't continually pay out money without knowing where it's going and what it's being spent on. And at this moment in time that information is severely lacking.
What if you pay all this money and all the developers want to do from this point forward is turn pdaXrom into a brilliant way to control all their stereo equipment? I know that's a silly and extreme example, but what if? What if there is no further development that is tangible and visible to all?
I'm not technical. I'm a mac user (that should show you how untechnical I am!). I have a single powerbook which I love. I have no PC, except a really awful pentium that's in a cupboard that I don't really want to bring out of retirement. I love pdaXrom and have enjoyed my attempts with it, but it's not yet ready for me to use full time so that I can abandon the other roms. I can't see myself being anything but dependent on the efforts of others to provide the apps that I want to use. I don't appreciate the, just do it yourself responses from others on here.
Not everyone has the time, skill or equipment to just do it themself.
All I've ever wanted and suggested was that a more user friendly version of pdaXrom be created, with a core set of apps and features that the majority of basic users require and desire. This is NOT catered for by the existing Rom. My idea for committee of users, was only to get involved in this element. The knee jerk reactions, while funny to read and containing some valid points are somewhat closed minded and missing my point.
I want pdaXrom to continue and grow and evolve. I have stated that I'm perfectly happy to contribute a sum of money each month. I'm just not willing to give my money away blindly. Why should anyone be asked to?
This is their project, if you don't like it, fork or find another (it is not because it's linux that their work is free, and it is not because of opensource that is free, and it is not because of the GPL that is free, it is only because they want to)
I really love it, I don't want to fork it or find another. I just want it to be brillaint.
Asking people do pay a monthly sum, kinda makes it not free....
I hope no one thinks me ungrateful for unappreciative of all the work that has been done on this rom. If I was, then I'd never have contributed a penny.
I'm allowed to air my opinion and I am. People can agree with me or not and thus far, the most vocal are the ones who don't. But there are people who do.
I gave my donation and I'm willing to donate more. I'll be in the wait and see camp first, I'll wait and see where this is going before I donate again. And this is my right, so don't comment on it. I hope the developers post a detailed road map and I hope the developers listen to user requests, even if they are informal, and I hope that the next proper release is as awesome as these release candidates are.
-
A "steering committe" would be about the worst thing I can think of. I kinda suspect that the pdaX people have sufficient skills to make money doing something they don't want to do already. There is no need for the beneficiaries of their project to turn it into something they don't enjoy anymore. I don't know of anything that is improved by oversight or steering committees--- my understanding was that such things were a means to maintain stability of governments. Coopting someone else's ideas, and compelling them to labor over your version and under your authority (however disguised in committees, organizations, churches, schools and microsoft --I mean corporations) is simply a very bad thing, however you want to label it.
As to "end user" applications on pdaxrom:
One of the really nice things about this rom is that it is pretty easy to grab a tarball and compile a program for your Z. I think that an improved "end-user" live cd ( in the works, I think?) and some really clear how-to stuff to go with on-board compiling would help a lot here. If I guess correctly, the actual program behind omro's concern is openoffice. Stuff like this does pose some difficulty-- It is apparently a problem to compile for this version of pdax, it is gigantic, and lots of people probably won't use it, though it would be pretty cool. From what I've seen on the boards, some users are working on it. I think it can be run in a chrooted debian. It can certainly be run through an x forwarded ssh tunnel, or better through NX (Hint hint). I expect it will be working eventually. In the meantime, abiword and gnumeric are quite good, and much smaller. What happened with siag?
Anyway... tested user feeds would be nice. ScottYelich has done some good stuff along those lines already. Accessable, obvious "compiling stuff for pdaXrom" how tos and live cd "point n click" setups would be probably the best solution. Much of that has been done already or is being redone. All that's left is a big red "click here if you are confused about..." on the web page.
-
Okay - didn't think i would startup a big "flamewar" on this one :-)
First off - Omro i agree with some of your thoughts - but couldn't we just, when we finishing the neverending RC release flood, post a thread "where would you like to see the pdaXrom go next?" thread? Or else feel free to setup a comittee - we would always like input and ideas and maybe even better if its more than one person oppion - but don't expect 100% control over the project. But often we can see if something is needed badly based on replys in the forum. We also always look at the bugreporting system on the site which also can be used for feature requests.
Secondly nobody is always right or always wrong. Most of the default included stuff in the current pdaXrom is what Sash and I has decided would be a "good start package". And I agree with Omro that the regular user can't be expected to be compiling programs. We expect people to find the compiled in the feeds which should be growing soon when the new website is ready. Sash and I often have small ICQ sessions where we discuss what we would like next and I often find myself being the boss and telling Sash what to concentrate on - else he will often try and build new smarter stuff than fixing bugs :-). Its a kind of agreement we have. Im not much of a programmer myself - more the webguy/public relations/gui-prefs coding/end user stuff guy/project manager.
Speaking of the new website it might be slightly delayed (1-2 days) due to some personal problems but it will be great (the website that is, not my personal problems). ;-)
Regarding the money donations - if you read the statement by Sash you will see its not a permanment problem - it just until i get my money situation sorted, then i can return to paying the gap between the donations/banners and the $500 a month for Sash but hey it would help if the gap was only $50 or something. Sometimes its hard to explain people why im spending like $100-400 a month on a guy i have never met ;-) And btw. none of the money donated goes to me(Laze) its entirely for Sash - and furthermore he works like 10-16 hours a day on the project and it pays all his expenses. Yes some would think its strange that we have to pay for his living/rent etc. instead of something like hardware or beer - but basically he just needs a root over his head, food and internet.
In short: We are all friends and have common passions, Zaurus/pdaXrom
/Laze
-
Great post Laze.
Sorry to hear about your personal things, I hope they all clear themselves up in favourable way.
I don't think it was a flame war, I think it was people having a healthy discussion!
Plus - guess what? No matter what we all think about funding. The one unanimous thing everyone agrees on...
pdaXrom is awesome!!!
-
I'm thinking about taking on a little work on the side, myself ...
I will continue to donate any time it's needed, as long as I have the
financial ability to do so. I could also do a monthly contribution, but
it wouldn't be as large as single donations, etc. Like Sash, I would
have to explain to the wife why I'm giving money, monthly, to
someone who I've never met -- but, the amount isn't the issue, it's
the principle. I know the principle is sound, I just have to get that
point across :->
Additionally, I also support bounties, because I'm lazy and I'd rather
pay Sash to find a bug to compile something for me than do it myself.
For instance, I'll pay $100 for qt 4.x (latest) compiled for 10.4. (this is,
of course, on top of other donations, etc). I don't know if compiling
Qt4 is difficult -- or is easy, but would just take a while with a simple
./configure and gmake ...
I do not think a steering committee is best -- but I do support a
suggestions thread after each release -- for ideas for the next release.
This is same idea as the bug thread, etc -- although I do think the
bug thread should just post links to a bug page on the dev site, etc.
Anyway, keep up the good work and, as always, you have my support.
Scott
-
LMAO
Maybe we need to set up some kind of "married guy's pdaxrom support service" that takes fairly small amounts through paypal and masquerades as some kind of spousally comprehensible expense.... like term life insurance, or something
-
Sorry I missed this thread until now... I've just donated $50 and will do so each month going forward. I'm hoping to be able to increase that soon, but we've been living off of one income since moving to Minnesota.
Keep up the great work guys!
P.S. I vote no on the committee idea
-
lol, funny how everyone thought my committee idea was more sinister than it was. Just was a way to get more user-oriented input into the rom or a version of the rom. Oh well, was just a thought! lol
Am glad the discussion has opened up the thought of more user related feedback at least :-)
If people are interested in a bounty system, which it seems some are. How would that get set up?
-
The bounty system will be in the new setup and will be a part of the new bug reporting system. So you can donate to a specific bug being fixed.
-
The bounty system will be in the new setup and will be a part of the new bug reporting system. So you can donate to a specific bug being fixed.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Could we please also have a bounty system where we donate for specific apps being compiled for those of us unable to compile our own? That would be awesome too :-)
-
The bounty system will be in the new setup and will be a part of the new bug reporting system. So you can donate to a specific bug being fixed.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Could we please also have a bounty system where we donate for specific apps being compiled for those of us unable to compile our own? That would be awesome too :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92758\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
omro --
I agree... as long as the bounty goes to pdaXrom and not the person who does the compiling.
This would also be a decent way for people to help to contribute -- to compile code for others
that, in turn, leads to a bounty for pdaXrom.
Scott
-
The bounty system will be in the new setup and will be a part of the new bug reporting system. So you can donate to a specific bug being fixed.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Could we please also have a bounty system where we donate for specific apps being compiled for those of us unable to compile our own? That would be awesome too :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92758\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
omro --
I agree... as long as the bounty goes to pdaXrom and not the person who does the compiling.
This would also be a decent way for people to help to contribute -- to compile code for others
that, in turn, leads to a bounty for pdaXrom.
Scott
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92869\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
That's quite a cool idea, never thought of that. Though would it not be fair to offer a percentage to the person who compiled the app, as a thank you? They could always choose to resubmit that percentage back to the development of pdaXrom if they were so community inclined.
-
i just ask myself...
the person who can compile for example Open Office, and for this who take a month of work
to thanks this person you would like to pay the pdaxrom team? it's not very logic
i think if a dev take his time to compile your app, the money must come to him, and it is his choice to give this money to the pdaxrom team
and also if i put a bounty on an application, i want to pay the person who has make the work, and noone other, if i want to give money to the team i simply donate.
do not forget that compiling an application is not always so simple that type 3 commands, and if you make some bounty this work must be rewarded
-
do a split based on the difficulty of the program and acknowledgement that maintenance of the rom is needed.
in this case omro being the initiator here, he would negotiate a split and collect pledges.
-
do a split based on the difficulty of the program and acknowledgement that maintenance of the rom is needed.
in this case omro being the initiator here, he would negotiate a split and collect pledges.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92932\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Either that or perhaps have the bounty system work in that pdaXrom collects the bounty money and when it gets paid out, they keep a fixed percentage like a processing fee?
-
arg... you guys are too slow
i just donated the $30 paypal i had to Ubuntu Forums and for getting my school a new router
i'll try and remember next time i have some paypal credit
-
Well, I will be happy to donate, if I see improvements being made
in regard to the operation of pdaXrom on the SL-6000, and probably
the 5500 as well. I have been a 5500 user until a few days ago
when I aquired a 6000. I have tried many ROMs, and PocketWorkstation
various times, but consider pdaXrom to be the best for my needs, being
a professional OS developer, and JAVA VM/J2SE/J2ME implementor.
BUT, currently there are many outstanding issues I've noticed in
the RC10 I am trying. If I see improvments being made available
over time, you can consider me a donator.
Actually, I'll kick in a donation right now.
BTW, some annoying issues for me at moment:
wallpaper orientation wrong in 480x640 mode (try a 480x640 image)
possible problems with X middle and right button assigning to home/email
(holding one of them causes many processes to start), and F11 and other
function keys in vxkbd do not seem to work for me
unable to use power button to suspend
no GNU emacs with X support in feed
incomplete 5500 feed
John
[UPDATE - Darn, I was expecting my donation to apear right away on the site,
as it was an unusual amount]
-
Argh, put the fact that the microphone (and mixer) is unusable on
the 6000 as my highest complaint at the moment. I experimented with
creating /dev/dsp1 and /dev/mixer1, but they get erased on a reboot.
-
Currently and for the last 1.5 years i have been working fulltime on the pdaXrom project but that might not be the case for much longer due to cashflow problems
We need roughly $500 a month to pay all my bills and stay alive and pay for hardwarde/internet/site etc. - the $500 makes it possible for me to work fulltime on the project. Usually each month we get a maximum total of $200 from donations and banner clicks - what normally happens is that Laze pays the difference up to the $500 we need each month to keep everything running. But due to problems with Lazes private economy he can't be paying this difference for the next 4-6 months at least.
So now we are left with two options:
1. We get more donations and banner clicks so the total amount each month reaches the $500. If each user that was active in the forum just donated like $10-20 it would be solved. I know some people donate but not as many that downloads the rom at least Maybe we should make it so you could have a regular subscribtion for each month?
2. I go find a "real" job and thereby i would only me able to work like 1 hour on the pdaXrom project a day and that would not be good for the project. Yes we could find more developers but each time we have tried they work on the project for a week and then they lose interest - so we have decided that i stay the core developer and we have sub-developer making applets/programs etc for the rom.
I of course prefer option 1 so please, please help keep pdaXrom alive and donate today
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91985\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Why don't you sell your product ? Seems like you have something some people want, so why not get some venture capital an start a company. There is nothing wrong with making money writting software.
-
Why don't you sell your product ? Seems like you have something some people want, so why not get some venture capital an start a company. There is nothing wrong with making money writting software.
The OE guys seem to do it, not sure how much money they make though. That said, pdaXrom is way more useable that OZ seems to be.
-
OE isn't sold--they ask for donations.
It is kinda hard to sell a linux system becuase the way the licenses work. Mostly what gets sold is a support package or something similar. If you could make a linux system pay only, SuSE(novell) would have done it, I think.
-
Link (http://oe.handhelds.org/success.php)
The above link is to OE's success page. Perhaps they charged to help the people put it on some of their commercial projects?
-
Link (http://oe.handhelds.org/success.php)
The above link is to OE's success page. Perhaps they charged to help the people put it on some of their commercial projects?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93669\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Please inform what the actual situation is beforing stating nonsense
-
OE isn't sold--they ask for donations.
It is kinda hard to sell a linux system becuase the way the licenses work. Mostly what gets sold is a support package or something similar. If you could make a linux system pay only, SuSE(novell) would have done it, I think.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93665\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
OE isn't a linux system, it's a build system, much like gentoo's portage. Please stop confusing OE and OZ
-
Link (http://oe.handhelds.org/success.php)
The above link is to OE's success page. Perhaps they charged to help the people put it on some of their commercial projects?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93669\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Please inform what the actual situation is beforing stating nonsense
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Do you understand the meaning of the word "perhaps"?
-
Hi there,
Just thought I'd revive this thread. With the proximity of the new release and the fact that a month has passed, I thought I'd donate again and encourage others, who wish to do so, to do so.
-
Omro... I agree...
I would like to remind everybody that i still don't have the fincally overbudget to pay the difference this month either - so please keep donating and the keep the project running. The next release is just around the corner is going to contain many bugfixes and updates.
-
What do you guys think of the bounty system?
People could request support for specific hardware or features, and put in a small monetary bounty for them. Other people who want those drivers/features could contribute to the bounty as well. Once the bounty gets to an amount that makes sense for the time involved ($/hour) the developers work on it.
I think it's a great system in theory, but working out the money details could be problematic. Is the money in escrow until the bounty is accepted? Until the development is complete?
I would definitely contribute toward a system with no power bugs, good networking support, and all the popular apps compiled for it and available from a GUI installer with good descriptions for each app.
I've got a 6000L, and every non-Sharp ROM/distro/whatever I've tried has had problems with power, or the network setup, or the display was screwed up, or *something*.
-
Laze, my Paypal contribution seems to have gone to JeMi Web Design, is that correct?
Just that I would have expected to see the beneficiary as pdaxrom.org.
Edit.
Sorry, I have now noticed the text 'Money will be transferred to JeMi Web Design, who then transfers them to the pdaXrom team.' So all is well.
-
+$200 from me.
that should make it at least $495 ...
Scott
-
Is it that time again?
*reaches for credit card*
-
Gondola,
being a member of the 6000l club, I share your frustration. I'd really like the power and xrandr/sdl resolution stuff sorted out in pdax.
On the other hand, they really have done an excellent job without being led around by us. The power issues are less serious in rc 11 than in 10... I just have charging going off randomly and a possible discharge while suspended (though that might have been from something in my pocket).
As much as I'd like my particular issues dealt with, I'm afraid that taking the fun out of it for the developers might kill the project as quickly as a lack of funds. So, I think a bounty system setup outside the regular pdax funding channels might be a better thing to do, much as I fear it will be less effective for us 6k people.
I'll donate a little this month and hold my breath for the improved x-server.
-
New Xserver for SL-6000 will in new RC like as for SL-C1000/C3100 it will support xrandr and touchscreen/mouse
-
How's the funding situation with pdaXrom going these days?
-
Little better but we usually need about 200-300$ monthly for a minimum and then I try to fill the missing.
-
I've been watching the donations this month and am a little concerned with how meager they are. Would like to encourage everyone to do their little part whenever they can....believe me it s worth it....
cycle_55
-
Good point.
iKobo doesn't seem to want to play ball though - all I get is this:
https://www.ikobo.com/importantinfo.php (https://www.ikobo.com/importantinfo.php)
-
i'll send something this evening
-
i'll send something this evening
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120922\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
....
cycle_55
-
...and I got home and completely forgot. Will do today.
-
Can't afford much right now but I just contributed $10 through Paypal.
Thanks for all the hard work.
-
Can't afford much right now but I just contributed $10 through Paypal.
Thanks for all the hard work.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
every donation is important no matter how large.
cycle_55
-
remembered, this time
-
I don't mean to come off as overly pushy on this issue but i have decided because of my limited knowlege of linux, this is really the only way i am able to contribute. This is a great product, one that i would purchase if it were available for sale. I use it everyday as part of my business and am pleased with it's performance. I and my family operate an internet cafe and we are using the pdaxrom on three of our machines. No harddrives just live cds and it's working great. If we weren't a lan gaming room we'd run all our machines that way. So, thankyou and definitely keep up the good work.
cycle_55
-
I don't mean to come off as overly pushy on this issue but i have decided because of my limited knowlege of linux, this is really the only way i am able to contribute. This is a great product, one that i would purchase if it were available for sale. I use it everyday as part of my business and am pleased with it's performance. I and my family operate an internet cafe and we are using the pdaxrom on three of our machines. No harddrives just live cds and it's working great. If we weren't a lan gaming room we'd run all our machines that way. So, thankyou and definitely keep up the good work.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=121184\")
wow, super! I uploaded new version there:
[a href=\"http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso]http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso[/url]
http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso.md5sum (http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso.md5sum)
multiple bugs fixed in init scripts, software updates.
If you use settings/homedirs from HD, need update /etc /lib/modules directories
-
I don't mean to come off as overly pushy on this issue but i have decided because of my limited knowlege of linux, this is really the only way i am able to contribute. This is a great product, one that i would purchase if it were available for sale. I use it everyday as part of my business and am pleased with it's performance. I and my family operate an internet cafe and we are using the pdaxrom on three of our machines. No harddrives just live cds and it's working great. If we weren't a lan gaming room we'd run all our machines that way. So, thankyou and definitely keep up the good work.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121184\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I don't mind if I come over as being pushy ;-)
I must admit - I haven't contributed till a couple of days ago after reading this page (but I am relatively new to pdaxrom).
as cycle_55 says - how much would you be prepared to pay to buy this software ? Most of us must have spare cash cos you wouldn't have bought a zaurus if you didn't have some... just think how much $50-100 means to this project and how much you'd spend on other software you 'needed' as much as pdaxrom....
in other words - get your hands in your pockets and thank the devs for making your zaurus such a fantastic bit of kit
</rant>
:-)
-
I don't mean to come off as overly pushy on this issue but i have decided because of my limited knowlege of linux, this is really the only way i am able to contribute. This is a great product, one that i would purchase if it were available for sale. I use it everyday as part of my business and am pleased with it's performance. I and my family operate an internet cafe and we are using the pdaxrom on three of our machines. No harddrives just live cds and it's working great. If we weren't a lan gaming room we'd run all our machines that way. So, thankyou and definitely keep up the good work.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=121184\")
wow, super! I uploaded new version there:
[a href=\"http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso]http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso[/url]
http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso.md5sum (http://mail.pdaxrom.org/1.1.0beta2/pdaX86/pdaXrom.iso.md5sum)
multiple bugs fixed in init scripts, software updates.
If you use settings/homedirs from HD, need update /etc /li
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thank-you, excellent.
cycle_55
-
to go far/ far afield here:
Does this mean we should take up a collection so sashz can have a winterm to try installing pdaxrom on? They would make great little stand-alone with pdaxrom. And ofcourse they'd stll do rdesktop (win) and x forward or xdmcp/query (linux,unix,bsd)
somethin I've been thinking about, anyway
-
you got my money, although I never used pdaX. I'll try pdaX once I got my second Zaurus, thanks for the hard work.
-
i could only spare $25US but you got my support.
-
i could only spare $25US but you got my support.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121469\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
This is really great.
I'd like everyone to know that even if one can only send a couple of bucks every once in a while it would be great. With 600 visits a day to this site if everyone did a little on a regular basis it would be totally painless.
cycle_55
-
is it me or is the donat-o-meter broken?
-
is it me or is the donat-o-meter broken?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121521\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think I read somewhere that it's a manual donat-o-meter (perhaps Laze has to crank the handle to make it go up?) Or maybe it has just been reset because the $500 for March was reached and its now April...
-
donated again...
anyone wanna follow my example? come on!
-
I would love to donate again if the pdaXrom team is committed to support Tosa down the road.
-
Is there as much of a need now? It seems like sashz is better off than previously< and that things from the dev team have slowed down a great deal.
-
Have not been using my Z for some 6 months or more (time flies) and now am trying to get back into it. Have donated before but not for a while. Then I uncovered this thread again and I am confused....
Is Sashz no longer working on the pdaXrom full time?
Is Laze working on it?
The new pdaXrom site - who built it and keeps it going? Is it Laze?
Where can I make a donation? I can't find a link on the site.
Has development stopped?
Can someone tell me whats been happening in my absence please.
Phill
-
We are still working on it.
Sash has got a real job in brazil but its luckly related and is spending all his free time on the project. The new website is a joint effort.
-
yes... sashz is working on the new beta..
To ease sashz work... help is needed in testing and adding new packages..
-
Hi Laze, Hi Sash,
I'm missing the donate-o-meter on the new page ... I have donated some weeks ago .. seen nother ( $0 ) on the aol pdaxrom page.
But I want to make some comments ...
- first thing what I am missing is a roadmap on pdaXrom (maybe with different position for kernel, rootfs, startup, model specific things, ...)
- second one is a changelog for all this Beta's ... Yes I know it is not very easy to do it :-)
Hope you enjoy your new job!
THX for all your good work.
Martin
-
I go do new donations... soon... my card is out of credit.... by the way.... we can do a donation style like it:
1- A rank page for "donaters"
2- A rank page for "contribers"
3- Credits for donaters ... for use in:
___3.1- Demande new features
___3.2- Demande software ports
___3.3- Demande new version for a new Zaurus model, is needed a donation amount to a new PDA e more then 10 demander (a propose only)
___3.4- Demande suporte
___3.5- Demand a customized pdaXrom for a new plataform....
4- I think we must create a ONG or similar to try get some incentives with SHARP or another manufaturer
5- We can try talk with manufatures to do pdaXrom be the main OS in some hardware and give us some incentive to work more to project
-
We are still working on it.
Sash has got a real job in brazil but its luckly related and is spending all his free time on the project. The new website is a joint effort.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138955\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Good to hear that things are running on. Would like to support with a donation but can't find any link on the site. There used to be a link but I can't find it on this new site.
Phill
-
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_...Xrom%20donation (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=mss@jemi.dk&no_note=1&tax=0&item_name=pdaXrom%20donation)
Until the site is completed.