OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Zaurus Distro Support and Discussion => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => Angstrom & OpenZaurus => Topic started by: Hagisbasheruk on September 22, 2005, 07:40:02 am
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I JUST WANT TO KNOW HAS ANYONE TRIED IT YET ?
Ihave no zaurus yet but have been reading lots and found this....probably the most interesting zaurus topic yet!!
Let me know how you get on with this ,even better OZ team up !!OZ/Debian
http://www.pocketworkstation.org/ (http://www.pocketworkstation.org/)
Full Debian GNU/Linux operating environment, with easy access to the many GB of available software. Want the Konqueror web browser and have 50MB free space on your SD card? Run "apt-get install konqueror", go eat lunch and come back to find it ready to run. No porting needed.
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includes X11 able to run most Linux applications - it supports virtual screens larger than the physical screen, realtime anti-aliased scaling and rotation, 3-mouse-button emulation and a full keyboard (useful i.e. if you need to send Ctrl-Alt-Del to an application).
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VNC client fbvnc (same features as X11 above) - remote administer your NT box from your Zaurus.
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Runs completely out of a single directory (a 256MB SD card is ideal), no re-flashing or modification of the existing operating system is required.
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Switch between qtopia and X11 whenever you like without rebooting or needing to stop any of your X11 applications. This currently still requires waiting half a minute for QPE to load, but I'm working on making it near-instantaneous.
Requirements
You need:
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A storage card with a Unix filesystem (ext2 works, FAT doesn't) and 95MB free space (125MB if you also need to put the archive on it) for the "base" archive, 200/280MB for the "big" one. SD/MMC cards are most useful due to keeping the CF slot free for network cards, but CF cards and microdrives also work.
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Approximately 20 MB free RAM on the handheld. This is only really relevant for the SL-5000D with the Sharp ROM which has less than 32MB available - don't try to run Qtopia at the same time as Debian in that case.
Supported platforms:
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Sharp SL-5000D or SL-5500 running the Crow ROM is recommended. OpenZaurus and the original Sharp ROM also work, but please refer to 'known bugs' below.
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The Japan-only C700 and C750 models also work, and are highly recommended (here's a comparison between the c700 and 5600. See 'known bugs' section below for further instructions.
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Compaq iPAQ color handheld running Familiar Linux. (NOT Windows CE, and it isn't officially supported yet and needs some tweaking, see 'known bugs' below. Send me mail if you want to try it.)
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Other comparable handhelds running Linux might also work with some porting, let me know if you have one you want supported.
Klaus Weidner kw@w-m-p.com
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Feedback! I won't continue releasing this if I don't hear from you (yes, this means you). If you try it, let me know what you did and how it turned out. If you decided not to try it out, please tell me what should have been different. Also, tell me if I should add you to the (very low-volume) announcement mailing list to tell you about new versions.
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Help on setting up power management properly on the various ROMs (suspend/resume, backlight, hardware clock, alarm function) - please let me know what works and what doesn't. I'd like to phase out the zapmd hacks if possible.
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A fix for the crashes when writing (see above, probably buggy SD/MMC driver)
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jffs2 file system on flash cards using the blkmtd driver - this would offer compression and better write performance. Anyone have a working Zaurus-compatible version?
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using jffs2 on CF card is actually slower and will destroy the cards faster. Ext2 without -noatime would be the best choice.
I don't know if you checked, but OZ offers > 2000 packages, so what is missing in respect to debian?
Why don't use you OZ/GPE? That way you'll have real X server which will perform much better as X/qt.
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using jffs2 on CF card is actually slower and will destroy the cards faster. Ext2 without -noatime would be the best choice.
Any chance you could please email Klaus Weidner kw@w-m-p.com with any suggestions regarding a better way to do this as he won't continue releasing this if he doesn't hear from people.
I don't know if you checked, but OZ offers > 2000 packages, so what is missing in respect to debian?
Why don't use you OZ/GPE? That way you'll have real X server which will perform much better as X/qt.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96663\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Regarding software i cant seem to find much Ham Radio software,ie SSTV,PSK,MORSE,PAKCET(decoding) via soundcard or Radio control via Com ports.....plus loads of other stuff.
Once i get a zaurus i will make it my task to modify/port these types of applications once i learn c++,java and Qt/embeded.
Anyway how about some1 doing a how to convert some ham radio app from source to run on the zaurus ;)maybe QSSTV(i can just imagine talking to someone on my Handheld Radio and then sending them some Slow Scan TV pictures of the location i am at{via sd card from camera} COOL -Then ill finish the rest!!
10,000+ apps on Debian too so maybe it would be better to find a way to download/compile/import these packages via a script automatically.
Regarding the X server i can comment on except the way i read it :
includes X11 able to run most Linux applications - it supports virtual screens larger than the physical screen, realtime anti-aliased scaling and rotation, 3-mouse-button emulation and a full keyboard (useful i.e. if you need to send Ctrl-Alt-Del to an application)(LOOKS REAL TO ME)....
The reason i sy that is because of the next statement :
VNC client fbvnc (same features as X11 above) - remote administer your NT box from your Zaurus
"fbvnc"<<<has this got to do with that?i just dont know enough to comment really!
Invite Klaus Weidner kw@w-m-p.com to partake in OZ he knows more about this than me,i'm just a Joe Blogs who thought this was way cool{FULL DEBIAN} on zaurus,after all doesn't OZ and others get there roots from there?
About OpenZaurus
Background
The OpenZaurus project was created as an alternative Operating System for the Sharp Zaurus Personal Mobile Tool. The original purpose behind the project was to create a system (kernel + root filesystem) which was a bit closer to what the developer community specifically desired. The method by which this was accomplished was simply to use the Sharp ROM as a base and make alterations, bugfixes, additions and even removals, where necessary, to make the package more open.
Shortly after this, it was revamped completely. OpenZaurus was then a Debian based embedded distribution built from source, from the ground up. Given its debian roots, it is quite similar to other embedded Debian-based distributions, such as Familiar for the Ipaq. This means of doing things also facilitates an easy method for users to build their own custom system images.
Current Versions of OpenZaurus are built from the OpenEmbedded Build system, this was again a complete rebuild of the entire distribution from scratch.
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OPPS U R RIGHT BUT LOOK BELOW
I don't know if you checked, but OZ offers > 2000 packages, so what is missing in respect to debian?
Why don't use you OZ/GPE? That way you'll have real X server which will perform much better as X/qt.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=96663\")
[a href=\"http://wiki.debian.net/?PocketWorkstationXQT]http://wiki.debian.net/?PocketWorkstationXQT[/url]
Instructions are to install PocketWorkstation with X-Qt on the Sharp ROM. X/Qt information is available at http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/index.html (http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/index.html)
NICE SCREENSHOTS HERE http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/screenshot.html (http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/screenshot.html)
[img]http://xqt.sourceforge.jp/040125-3.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
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Pasting website contents is annoying for 2 reasons:
1) you don't answer my questions
2) I've already read those websites
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using jffs2 on CF card is actually slower and will destroy the cards faster. Ext2 without -noatime would be the best choice.
I don't know if you checked, but OZ offers > 2000 packages, so what is missing in respect to debian?
Why don't use you OZ/GPE? That way you'll have real X server which will perform much better as X/qt.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96663\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Xqt IS a real x server, and I can't see much difference in performance between xqt and xserver.
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using jffs2 on CF card is actually slower and will destroy the cards faster. Ext2 without -noatime would be the best choice.
I don't know if you checked, but OZ offers > 2000 packages, so what is missing in respect to debian?
Why don't use you OZ/GPE? That way you'll have real X server which will perform much better as X/qt.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96663\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Xqt IS a real x server, and I can't see much difference in performance between xqt and xserver.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
An extra layer of indirection, but with the original sharprom and x/qt you would probably see better performance since kdrive lacks the w100 accel bits.
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is it me or has a particular "team" been a little "testy" lately, too much coffee perhaps?
edit: typo, no h in much
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is it me or has a particular "team" been a little "testy" lately, too much coffee perhaps?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96724\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Looks like it !! i just thought it would be a good/better idea too team up/exchange ideas and infos and therefore make the OS's better for all users.
P.S INFORMATION IS FOR SHARING JUST LIKE LINUX SO DO USE A FAVOUR KOEN BE POSITIVE,i just checked all your previous posts to see if you were one of those NEGATIVE types but you seem ok so sorry for getting your hump up......but you have not answered my questions ether;(
BACK TO THE POINT HAS ANYONE TRIED THIS?
IF SO COMMENTS PLEASE !
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Maybe I'm getting testy too, but here's my take:
1. Hagisbasheruk - if you do a quick search on the forum for pocketworkstation, you'll see that there are already a few threads on it. So yes, people have tried it, posted their thoughts, etc. You just didn't take the time to look for yourself.
2. Hagisbasheruk - you need to learn quickly how to post properly in the forums. WHEN YOU USE ALL CAPS, IT GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU ARE YELLING. And generally speaking, people don't like that. So STOP IT.
3. I don't see how koen was being negative. He simply stated his opinion. Granted his opinion may be stronger than others , but nothing he said was really offensive.
4. Bam - how was your post in any way a positive contribution to the conversation?
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I don't know if many people have used the full debian on a 5500, which is a small machine. There was a big thread started by smuelas about the full debian on the 6000 and he even had a very nice web page with screenshots and instructions. You can find the thread by searching the forums.
There are many options on how to use the Zaurus, which is one of the main appeals it has. Maybe if you tell us what your main needs are, we can make suggestions on what setup is best.
Or maybe we just carry on with a flame war :-)
Felipe
p.s. BTW, there really is no need to paste content from web pages. Putting a link is enough.
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Hay i only just found out about the Zaurus last week after seeing one on ebay.
I don't often use forums so pardon the CAPS and content pasting lol.I never even thought to search the forum OOPS
Like i said i would like to be able to run ham radio apps on it so that seems the appeal for me.
What about these 2.2 Gb cf microdrives that are on ebay are they any good for a sl-5500 or sl-5600?
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using jffs2 on CF card is actually slower and will destroy the cards faster. Ext2 without -noatime would be the best choice.
The above statement defies logic. JFFS2 includes wear limiting features, and compression as well so tell me how on earth it can cause a flash memory card to destroy faster than a file system like ext2 without wear limiting or compression?
Just point me to a link were someone has done a research which shows that jffs2 on a flash memory card (CF or MMC) wears the card faster than ext2?
JFFS2 will be slower since it includes compression, but it is hard to beleive that it will destroy a flash memory card than other filesystems which do not have non wear limiting and compressio.
Grendel
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4. Bam - how was your post in any way a positive contribution to the conversation?
good point and noted, but I am like others a little "tired" of some of what appears to be attitude around here, thats all. I like this place because for the simple fact, I get answers to my dumb questions and I dont get attitude because of it (my stupid questions)[thats my positive contribution to the forum]
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Guys (Hagisbasheruk especially) - this is "OZ/Common" NOT PocketWorkstation/Common or Debian/Common - use correct sections.
Hagisbasheruk - you are new in this forum - find some free time, use Search option to find some threads about things which interest you but dont select random section to start asking about things which was discussed many times.
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using jffs2 on CF card is actually slower and will destroy the cards faster. Ext2 without -noatime would be the best choice.
The above statement defies logic. JFFS2 includes wear limiting features, and compression as well so tell me how on earth it can cause a flash memory card to destroy faster than a file system like ext2 without wear limiting or compression?
Just point me to a link were someone has done a research which shows that jffs2 on a flash memory card (CF or MMC) wears the card faster than ext2?
JFFS2 will be slower since it includes compression, but it is hard to beleive that it will destroy a flash memory card than other filesystems which do not have non wear limiting and compressio.
@weasel:
1.) jffs2 is a filesystem that is dedicated to run on MT devices, that is devices which don't have integrated wear levelling - which means: dumb flash chips.
2.) SD and CF memory cards contain card controllers which implement their own wear levelling.
3.) You can only run jffs2 on anything else than a flash chip by using an experimental mtd block emulation layer. This is for testing jffs2, not for production use.
4.) Journalling file systems introduce extra read/writes, some of them a lot, some of them only a bit. Since write access is what kills your card, it means you will destroy your card sooner if you are using a journalled file system.
Conclusion: Use ext2 without [dir]atime.
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Guys (Hagisbasheruk especially) - this is "OZ/Common" NOT PocketWorkstation/Common or Debian/Common - use correct sections.
Hagisbasheruk - you are new in this forum - find some free time, use Search option to find some threads about things which interest you but dont select random section to start asking about things which was discussed many times.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96762\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Ok some admin move this to :
OE Forums > ROMs, Development, and Model Specific Forums > Everything Development > X/Qt
Sorry for posting here ! like i said i haven't used forums much but they seem a good place for infos
Cheers from Hagisbasheruk
Oh! how about a 2.2Gb or upwards microdrives instead of a cf card?
I'am not conserned about speed but just whether these newer cf drives would work in the zaurus,most say they are IBM compatable clones and well wouldn't this do away with any corruption issues?
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The microdrives work fine on the Zaurus. But if you want large permanent storage, it's better to use a large SD card, since you want to the CF card slot free for connectivity.
When I said in my earlier post that the 5500 was small, I actually meant in RAM and processor speed (I should have said underpowered) so the full Debian will be slow.
Sorry, I don't know anything about ham radios. If the apps you need are standard linux apps, they will probably cross-compile. If you need a GUI then you might have to use X/Qt or the O{Z,E}-GPE image.
Felipe
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Sorry, I don't know anything about ham radios. If the apps you need are standard linux apps, they will probably cross-compile. If you need a GUI then you might have to use X/Qt or the O{Z,E}-GPE image.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Apparently it's very hard to grasp: OpenZaurus == distro, OpenEmbedded == buildsystem
in short: there are no OE-images. And OpenEmbedded has nothing to do with this forum.
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Sorry, I don't know anything about ham radios. If the apps you need are standard linux apps, they will probably cross-compile. If you need a GUI then you might have to use X/Qt or the O{Z,E}-GPE image.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=96802\")
Apparently it's very hard to grasp: OpenZaurus == distro, OpenEmbedded == buildsystem
in short: there are no OE-images. And OpenEmbedded has nothing to do with this forum.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Hmm... nothing to do with this forum, funny how the title on the entire forum site says OE Forums... and how about the [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=OESF:About]OESF:About[/url] page. Sure looks like it says Open Embedded Software Foundation to me.
Why can't we all just get along? Be mean to your code and your hardware, force it to do what you want. But be nice to people so they actually care about the projects you work on. Why put people off by being condescending?
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Sorry, I don't know anything about ham radios. If the apps you need are standard linux apps, they will probably cross-compile. If you need a GUI then you might have to use X/Qt or the O{Z,E}-GPE image.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=96802\")
Apparently it's very hard to grasp: OpenZaurus == distro, OpenEmbedded == buildsystem
in short: there are no OE-images. And OpenEmbedded has nothing to do with this forum.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Hmm... nothing to do with this forum, funny how the title on the entire forum site says OE Forums... and how about the [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=OESF:About]OESF:About[/url] page. Sure looks like it says Open Embedded Software Foundation to me.
Why can't we all just get along? Be mean to your code and your hardware, force it to do what you want. But be nice to people so they actually care about the projects you work on. Why put people off by being condescending?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=97018\")
You have just proven my point that offroadgeek stole the name from [a href=\"http://www.openembedded.org]http://www.openembedded.org[/url] which is around since 2003, while this forum was renamed in 2005. So again, OpenEmbedded has nothing to do with this forums. Please check your facts before responding with nonsense. And you wonder why some people sound condescending......
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just to chirp up for my sl-5500
yes I have a 206mhz cpu but so far no ones ported a decent opengles or written any games that need it...
oh yeah, and even though I can run seti @ whereever I'm standing, I'm not going to trust the news about little green aliens until I get a chance at Seven of Nine...
Oh and memory, "most" SL-5500's have 64mb SDRAM just like all of the newer Z's (sharp, why don't you offer one with 128mb - we'll jump on it, by the way with the SL-C3000 and C3100 do you know if the CF card supports DMA? ie whats the transfer speed, can I swap on it effectively?)
(I said "most" because there are some rumors of people with 32mb SL-5500's)
my dream Z?
- 128mb SDRAM
- huge battery (gotta talk to that guy in russia)
- host USB
- dual slot CF (or built in microdrive)
- 8gig microdrive(ok I drool over a 4gig but I am dreaming)
- built in 802.11g 108mb
- video out
- sd io 4 bit - but why do I wish for that, if the above are avail my sd card will only be for camera syncing
- built in cell phone quality microphone/earphone or bluetooth
- built in stereo headphone output jack
anyone need anything else?
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Oh and memory, "most" SL-5500's have 64mb SDRAM just like all of the newer Z's
<snip>
(I said "most" because there are some rumors of people with 32mb SL-5500's)
These 32Mb 5500s quite simply do not exist. There was a developer version which had 32Mb which was called the 5000D.
This confusion mainly arrises from people not understanding Sharp's implementation of the split of the 64Mb of physical RAM into main memory (32Mb) and a RAM-disk (32Mb).
Si
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Well maybe this forum has nothing to do with OpenEmbedded, but perhaps The OESF name should be Open Embedded-Software Foundation, in which case it isn't necessarily stolen. As it's all about Open-Source Embedded-Software.. not your precious OpenEmbedded which as of yet has only embedded it's nasty thorny attitude into my left butt-cheek.
But anway, now we see why Koen isn't nice to people. He's all upset about his name being shamelessly stolen
Get over it already. You'd think with so many numbers of developers that open source software could come have come so much further than it has so far. Unfortunately yet again, we see that the developers get into useless squabbles over nothing and instead of keeping proprietary trade secrets like the Big Boys which stifle innovation, they just keep really rotten attitudes which drive everyone away. What a shame.
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You have just proven my point that offroadgeek stole the name from http://www.openembedded.org (http://www.openembedded.org) which is around since 2003, while this forum was renamed in 2005. So again, OpenEmbedded has nothing to do with this forums. Please check your facts before responding with nonsense. And you wonder why some people sound condescending......
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Koen - I can't believe I misjudged you so badly. Here I thought that you were actually a nice guy, and that some people just misunderstood you. Apparently I was completely wrong. You are simply an ungreatful, angry person. And I'm sick and tired of seing your negative posts on these forums.
Just so we're all clear.... the Open Embedded Software Foundation has NO DIRECT TIES to the OpenEmbedded project. Also, the Open Embedded Software Foundation IS NOT AN EXTENSION of the OpenEmbedded project. If fact, going forward, I'm beginning to wonder if the OESF will have anything to do with OE at all.
I had no idea that anyone from the OE team felt that I had stolen the Open Embedded name. When I was brainstorming names with Roy (dz) late last year for this nonprofit (that I have yet to get off the ground) I couldn't think of anything really good or original. I'm not that creative of a person, and apparently it shows. I was looking at the Free Software Foundation's site, looking at what they've done with a nonprofit, and that's when I figured that OESF could be a foundation that support any open source embedded device, whether it be the hardware or software side of things, or even projects that support such things (like OE, pdaXrom, etc.). I obviously knew very well about the OpenEmbedded project, but while the names are similar (not identical), our goals are completely different.
So misguided was I, thinking that the OE team and I had a decent relationship, not too long ago I decided to buy the OE team a C1000, and asked Mickeyl who I should donate it to... he directed me to coredump. Not long after coredump received his new C1000, he released his hentges rom for the C1000 (as well as support for other models). I'd like to think that this is partly because I helped out.
I'm not a developer, by any stretch of the imagination. It took me countless hours to pull together the ZUG site, and I've spent more countless hours running these forums. I figure, these are things that I can do to support the community. I make a decent living... enough where I try and support our various project teams with donations of money or hardware. Keep in mind that I don't own a company... the OESF doesn't make a single penny... I simply work and draw a salary, and enjoy my hobbies... the Zaurus being one of them.
It's funny... it just takes one bad apple. You are starting to make me wonder why even bother with all of this. Why am I so actively trying to support the OE project, when a member of the very project team is going to shit on me.
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I think these negative type posts are not doing anyone any good !
In fact i have even been looking into other PDA's due to some of the negative comments.
I appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining a forum such as this,especialy on someones free time and goodwill to serve the Zaurus community.Why do people bother posting negatively ,it will never do anything good but the exact opposite and may even steer people away from the Zaurus altogether.
PS. this is aimed at no particular person but at all who post,where ever you post and in whatever other forums elsewhere,try and be more posative and helpfull please,for the benifit of all.
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@Offroadgeek:
Koen is not a native English speaker, sometimes he comes across as being a bit rude, I don't think this is necessarily how he should be interpreted (though in some cases I can see why he might be being brusque).
The fact does remain that the Openembedded build system, etc. existed before the forums were renamed. There's no reason why the two shouldn't be able to co-exist, however I have seen a lot of people making comments similar to this:
Hmm... nothing to do with this forum, funny how the title on the entire forum site says OE Forums... and how about the OESF:About page. Sure looks like it says Open Embedded Software Foundation to me.
@polito:
not your precious OpenEmbedded which as of yet has only embedded it's nasty thorny attitude into my left butt-cheek. tongue.gif
Not particularly amusing.
Get over it already. blink.gif You'd think with so many numbers of developers that open source software could come have come so much further than it has so far. Unfortunately yet again, we see that the developers get into useless squabbles over nothing and instead of keeping proprietary trade secrets like the Big Boys which stifle innovation, they just keep really rotten attitudes which drive everyone away. What a shame.
But you started this by stating matter-of-factly that as the forums are called oesf.org, that this *must* be the correct part of the forum to post in. You didn't listen to what people were telling you. I think rotten attitudes tend to have a root cause and it's (in my humble opinion) people who think they're right without justification who cause alot of this grief.
Now that I'm talking, another pet dislike of mine: I've recently seen loads of posts saying things along the lines of "tried OpenZaurus but it wasn't anywhere as good as Cacko/PdaXrom/etc." without giving any indication of why (I'm sure the converse is also true). I find this frustrating as I firsly don't think it's true and is giving a bad name to something I work on, and secondly would like to know why people think this so that changes can be made if needed.
I think the OZ the developers on this forum are helpful and courteous, and don't only help OZ users, but are willing to help out anyone with a problem, no matter what flavour of distro they choose to use.
Back in the old days, if someone made a statement that something was crap/good, they'd back it up with reasons, and if someone else came along and overturned those reasons, they'd be happy to accept it without what appears to me to be a form of entrenched partisan warfare. There's few enough of us as it is, I don't think we need all of this back-biting - I certainly don't, I've got better things to do with my time than sit here composing long rambling speeches...
Regards,
Si
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Well spoken lardman !
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[Apparently it's very hard to grasp: OpenZaurus == distro, OpenEmbedded == buildsystem
in short: there are no OE-images. And OpenEmbedded has nothing to do with this forum.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think the OZ the developers on this forum are helpful and courteous, and don't only help OZ users, but are willing to help out anyone with a problem, no matter what flavour of distro they choose to use.
Back in the old days, if someone made a statement that something was crap/good, they'd back it up with reasons, and if someone else came along and overturned those reasons, they'd be happy to accept it without what appears to me to be a form of entrenched partisan warfare. There's few enough of us as it is, I don't think we need all of this back-biting - I certainly don't, I've got better things to do with my time than sit here composing long rambling speeches...
Regards,
Si
Erm guys...........
Can we have a time out here.......
Lots of people put in lots of hours into supporting the Zaurus and friends Im sure we dont need a family fude.
Having run both OZ and Cako roms I can only sit and wonder how many man hours have gone into making them run as well as they do all for little return. Sites such as OESF and ZUG make the users of these ROMS able to use them and develop ideas of their own. As the typed word is withour facial expression, body language or inflection its easy to get the wrong end of the stick espesialy when non native speakers use degrees of words with the wrong inflection (you should see my chinese posts for comparison before condeming any non native speaker of any language)
Lets take a deep breath and think before jumping in. I for one can hold my hand up and say I have frequently put my foot in my mouth when acting / texting before thinking first.
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@Offroadgeek:
Koen is not a native English speaker, sometimes he comes across as being a bit rude, I don't think this is necessarily how he should be interpreted (though in some cases I can see why he might be being brusque).
I know full well that Koen is not a native english speaker. Why do you think I've tried to get people to get off his back in previous posts?
You have just proven my point that offroadgeek stole the name from http://www.openembedded.org (http://www.openembedded.org)
This is the comment that I have a problem with, and I don't think there's any translation issues here.
So I ask... are there others within the OpenEmbedded project team that feel that I "stole the name"?
My point is, that I didn't realize there was such animosity over an issue that seemed to come up kind of randomly.
Would it help if I change the name of the forums from OE Forums to OESF Forums? Or is the issue the "OE" in OESF?
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Would it help if I change the name of the forums from OE Forums to OESF Forums? Or is the issue the "OE" in OESF?
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The issue is with the usage of 'OE' and 'Open Embedded' (with or without the space) without prior communication. I've asked around and nobody seems to recall any dialog, except 'I wish offroadgeek hadn't done that' after the name change.
I personally have a problem with calling stuff like the sharprom and cacko 'open' or 'open source' and as hrw recently discovered, promoting warez and piracy (ever looked inside pdaxrom and checked what they are shipping?).
It's your forum, so you can do with it what you like (as you should). I do find it annoying that people attack and insult me when I try to find out what's missing in OZ in an OZ-section. And I am more than annoyed by people who claim 'OESF' is all about OE. I appriciate the effort, but resent the usurping (is that a better word?) of the name from OE.
I also have to make a note that I'm used to dealing with ipaq users which have the following characteristics:
1) have seen the wasteland (wince)
2) have been smart enough to navigate the internet to find handhelds.org
3) were able to reflash their device themselves by following the install guide
4) are genuinely gratefull to the effort
5) are able to use google and use + expand the hh.org wiki
If you look at this forum you can see roughly 2 categories of Zaurus users:
1) enthusiastic people trying to mold their zaurus into something of their liking
2) lazy, ungratefull and obnoxious people who always complain and never search the forums or the internet ('I can't install <whatever>ROM, this sucks')
It seems that 2) are a very vocal part of this forum, and I sure hope they are a minority.
That's pretty much all I have to say about this and I'll return to helping people who have asked smart questions. I'll try to stay away from responding people who think they can waste my time so they don't have to think for themselves...
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Non-native speaker of the English language. Koen uses it well enough to say what he means and mean what he says. He isn't lacking in his understanding and usage of the language whatsoever.
Anyway, when someone goes and makes other people feel like they are morons just because they don't know the difference between OE and a distribution is, that is what makes me upset. No one should be made to feel stupid because they don't know what something is. Anyone ever care to think that perhaps, just maybe, some users of the forums could be younger folk who might be hurt at being called an idiot, even if done on the sly?
I myself am not a younger user of these forums but I begin to wonder whether I should just make my own forum somewhere else. Anywhere else... anywhere but a place where making people feel dumb is tolerated.
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And yet, the title of this thread is "Full Debian Linux On Zaurus Sl-5500 Etc, DEBIAN ON ZAURUS". Somehow I'm thinking this is turning into a flamewar more than anything else. This has strayed so far from the original topic that if I had moderator powers, this would be closed(I'm not trying to be rude in any way shape or form).
My suggestion...everyone cool off!!!. Would it be possible to get this thread back on track? I for one would like some more information on Debian on the Zaurus
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Well unfortunately this also happens to be the wrong forum for this thread in the first place.
And @lardman, I did find my comment about my left-butt cheek particularly amusing and you'll also note that I did not in fact start "this" as you've put it. Koen started by not being particularly kind regarding the inability to "grasp" the concept that OE is a build system and OZ is a distribution for the Zaurus. If we're talking about matter-of-factly then please take note of Koen's matter-of-factness will you please?
Anyhoo.. I'll refrain from further devolving into a puddle of bubbly goo as this is getting so bad it's going backwards.
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Koen is not a native English speaker, sometimes he comes across as being a bit rude, I don't think this is necessarily how he should be interpreted (though in some cases I can see why he might be being brusque).
This is not true, Koen has shown a excellent grasp of the english laguage so far in his postings, they are grammatically correct and his statements should stand. I myself am not a native english speaker but i still stand by my statements.
His arrogant attitude is one reason why i am very reluctant to try GPE or anything he is involved with,He makes Derek Smart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Smart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Smart) look like the most curteous guy in the world.
I am very respectfull of Mikeyl and other guys who are kind and mature enough to reply to our queries without a haughty, pubescent pimply faced youth type of attitude.
If you see his posts the majority of them are rants and raves at some unfortuante person, IMHO he is doing more harm to opie/gpe than the good he has done.
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His arrogant attitude is one reason why i am very reluctant to try GPE or anything he is involved with,He makes Derek Smart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Smart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Smart) look like the most curteous guy in the world.
I was thinking Derek Smart myself, that Smarts!
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Would it help if I change the name of the forums from OE Forums to OESF Forums? Or is the issue the "OE" in OESF?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97691\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The issue is with the usage of 'OE' and 'Open Embedded' (with or without the space) without prior communication. I've asked around and nobody seems to recall any dialog, except 'I wish offroadgeek hadn't done that' after the name change.
I personally have a problem with calling stuff like the sharprom and cacko 'open' or 'open source' and as hrw recently discovered, promoting warez and piracy (ever looked inside pdaxrom and checked what they are shipping?).
It's your forum, so you can do with it what you like (as you should). I do find it annoying that people attack and insult me when I try to find out what's missing in OZ in an OZ-section. And I am more than annoyed by people who claim 'OESF' is all about OE. I appriciate the effort, but resent the usurping (is that a better word?) of the name from OE.
I also have to make a note that I'm used to dealing with ipaq users which have the following characteristics:
1) have seen the wasteland (wince)
2) have been smart enough to navigate the internet to find handhelds.org
3) were able to reflash their device themselves by following the install guide
4) are genuinely gratefull to the effort
5) are able to use google and use + expand the hh.org wiki
If you look at this forum you can see roughly 2 categories of Zaurus users:
1) enthusiastic people trying to mold their zaurus into something of their liking
2) lazy, ungratefull and obnoxious people who always complain and never search the forums or the internet ('I can't install <whatever>ROM, this sucks')
It seems that 2) are a very vocal part of this forum, and I sure hope they are a minority.
That's pretty much all I have to say about this and I'll return to helping people who have asked smart questions. I'll try to stay away from responding people who think they can waste my time so they don't have to think for themselves...
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Koen
I think that your clasification of Zaurus users is over simplified to say the least. And I for one find your atitude towards users who dont know all there is to know about linux and the zaurus insulting. Regardless of the name of the forum OE OESF ZUGF QWERTF it doesnt matter. The important part of the formum is to provide an area where zaurus users can swap ideas, information and help eachother with problems they have with their systems. Since SHARP is not doing any more in the way of ROM development that has also grown to include the provision of ROMS ROM support and applications. But and a big but is its all volantry and therefor must be touchy feely. You cannot go round insulting users / developers because your surely just shooting yourself in the foot. You can elect not to participate but the insults only kill off the team spirit where users will help each other out and developers will continue to develop (they surly arnt doing it for the money).
So lets make like an icebergh and CHILL
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But and a big but is its all volantry and therefor must be touchy feely.
Indeed it is, and it's therefore only polite for people to make sure they do some research before posting questions (not aimed at this topic in particular, just one of those things). There are, unfortunately, a fair few people who don't bother to use search (that's a bit unfair as searching is an acquired art, but it is frustrating for those of us who've been around for a while to see the same questions asked over and over and over again, etc.)
In some ways I agree with koen's splitting forum members into categories - it does seem to me too that there is an awful lot of negativity about such and such a 'ROM'/program/whatever (and don't try to tell me this is down to the developers' PR skills please, we should all be bright enough to be able to distinguish the two).
What I'd like to see is more of the 'old school', people helping one another, no more of this mine's better than yours business, and people doing some background research before posting (ie. use search, browse the forum, etc.) if for no other reason than to not clutter the forum up with endless 3 post long threads saying look at this post, etc. (which then makes searching a pain...)
Anyway I think that just about sums it up,
****I don't want to see any more posts in this thread please****
In fact I would close this thread, but as I'm (unfortunately) involved in it, this might seem improper (especially as I've had the last say).
If one of the other admins would be so kind as to close it that would be good.
Here's to a brighter and more cooperative future (fingers crossed).
Thanks,
Simon