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Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => C1000/3x00 Hardware => Topic started by: GadgetGuy on September 28, 2005, 04:35:19 pm

Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: GadgetGuy on September 28, 2005, 04:35:19 pm
I have just read a thread, in which various people described how their C7xx units died due to worn out flash ram ( after a bit over a year of using the unit).

It appears, that they (probably all) did reflash their OS quite frequently ( but most probably not 100.000 times ).

So, it appears, that (in some cases) the lifetime of flash ram can be much less than the at least 100.000 mentioned by some manufacturers.

I have a still (quite) new C3100 - and now I started to have some thoughts about "experimenting" with it.

Should I be more careful about flashing the OS? Maybe also about installing / removing software?

Would anybody know, if this ( i.e. flash ram dying) is something one should worry about? Is it possible that the C3100 has a different architecture than the C7xx series, and therefore would not have such problems?

Thanks for any comments, thoughts...
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: icruise on September 28, 2005, 09:11:16 pm
I find it pretty doubtful that flash could fail in that amount of time, at least from the "limited number of writes" issue. I wouldn't think that you should have to take any special precautions to avoid this type of problem either.
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Cresho on September 28, 2005, 09:42:15 pm
i think he wants to say....

I want to own a zaurus for the rest of my life........  


same here.




It is the freedom to create stuff, community supported, and alot of fun.
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: GadgetGuy on September 28, 2005, 11:12:56 pm
Quote
i think he wants to say....

I want to own a zaurus for the rest of my life........   


same here.


[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

You must have read my mind  
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: T-RuX on September 29, 2005, 04:23:03 am
And my mind too
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Cagilaba on September 29, 2005, 07:17:49 am
Ummm... mine TOO!!!!!
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: lardman on September 29, 2005, 07:37:34 am
Quote
I have just read a thread, in which various people described how their C7xx units died due to worn out flash ram ( after a bit over a year of using the unit).

Can you give us a link?


Si
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: GadgetGuy on September 29, 2005, 09:41:53 am
Quote
Quote
I have just read a thread, in which various people described how their C7xx units died due to worn out flash ram ( after a bit over a year of using the unit).

Can you give us a link?


Si
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
 (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=97525\")

[a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3194&hl=]https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3194&hl=[/url]
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: speculatrix on September 30, 2005, 05:47:55 pm
Quote
I find it pretty doubtful that flash could fail in that amount of time, at least from the "limited number of writes" issue. I wouldn't think that you should have to take any special precautions to avoid this type of problem either.
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yeah, but bear in mind, linux can rewrite the same file over and over. make sure file systems are mounted as "noatime" otherwise the kernel updates the "last accessed time" on each file.

and don't put swap on internal memory.

I've never come across a decent discussion on whether, if at all, the Z's flash memory controller implements wear levelling, or whether the Z's file system or kernel does either.
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Da_Blitz on October 03, 2005, 07:01:50 am
you should get anywhere between 100 000 to 1 000 000 rewrites to a single flash 'cell' however most flash chips ship with extra flash that the user cant acsess so it can perform ware leveling so even if you write to the same place constantly the flash chip will keep changing the area where it stores data to compinsate.

wether this does anything is a diffrent matter, but keep in ming that one write per minute allows 100 000 minutes continues use, thats 69.4 days non stop, or if you use it 4 hours a day 416 days before there should be a problem, and thats if the battery will hold out. thats more likly to go thaan the flash
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: GadgetGuy on October 03, 2005, 11:57:14 am
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... thats if the battery will hold out. thats more likly to go thaan the flash
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Yes. But the battery is user replaceable, while the flash is not...

Still: I think there is no reason to worry about this
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: bam on October 03, 2005, 04:17:52 pm
it just has to last until the next model comes out, provided the next model isnt a complete failure(highly doubtful)
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Da_Blitz on October 04, 2005, 07:08:27 am
who said flash is not user replacable
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: speculatrix on October 05, 2005, 04:27:22 am
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it just has to last until the next model comes out, provided the next model isnt a complete failure(highly doubtful)
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I'd laugh, only I hope your view isn't shared by Sharp.
Clearly you have much deeper pockets than many here, a number of which have 5xxx models when by your policy they'd have bought a 700, 760, 860, 3000, 1000 and now 3100 if they bought every new model.
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: GadgetGuy on October 05, 2005, 08:41:42 am
Quote
I'd laugh, only I hope your view isn't shared by Sharp.
Clearly you have much deeper pockets than many here, a number of which have 5xxx models when by your policy they'd have bought a 700, 760, 860, 3000, 1000 and now 3100 if they bought every new model.
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Yes. That was exactly the reason for my initial post. It took me a long time to decide whether I can afford a C3100. Then it took a long time to convince my wife, that I truly "need" a Z.

Now I just want to make sure, that it will last as long as possible...
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: polito on October 07, 2005, 01:34:21 am
Every man truly "needs" a Z. It's a fact of life. Just like a wife truly "needs" 10 pairs of shoes (at least) and 5 different purses (minimum)

And remember... every wife generally upgrades their shoe/purse collection frequently during their lifetime.
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Ragnorok on October 18, 2005, 10:42:43 pm
- Fortunately I have no trouble convincing the wife I need a new Z, as long as it comes with a new Treo smartphone for her!  (giggle)  Costs a lot, but it works.  She's usually chomping at the bit to upgrade my unit before I am!
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: chiark on October 19, 2005, 03:10:03 am
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She's usually chomping at the bit to upgrade my unit before I am!
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I get quite a lot of spam that offers me the chance to upgrade my unit and please my wife - do you want me to pass it on?  
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: z_mentor on October 19, 2005, 06:14:44 pm
Back to the original discussion,

if and when in some years your zaurus internal drive dies,

you can always do what real men do  

open up the zaurus and replace the internal flash drive with a new one, probably with 3x or 4x its current capacity.  
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Ragnorok on November 09, 2005, 11:26:03 pm
Quote
Quote
She's usually chomping at the bit to upgrade my unit before I am!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99945\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I get quite a lot of spam that offers me the chance to upgrade my unit and please my wife - do you want me to pass it on?  
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99961\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
- Man but I shoulda seen that!  (guffaw)
- So far about a dozen Cacko flashes don't seem to have done anything.  Doeas that help?  (chuckle)
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: xatax on November 10, 2005, 11:58:45 pm
Is far more probable to drop *accidentally* your Z to the floor and die in the process than having a used-up flash memory module
Title: Flash Life Expectancy On Cxx00 Series?
Post by: Da_Blitz on November 14, 2005, 12:18:02 am
i have dropped the zaurus after about 4 weeks of owning it from above head hight and all it did was knock the LCD screen about a bit so the case dosent fit together and leaves a 1 mm gap along one side

these things are built to last

edit: that was onto hard concrete