OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => 6000 - Tosa => Topic started by: guylhem on November 15, 2005, 03:31:49 pm
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Fellow tosa-lovers, beware!
The following pictures may offend your eyes...
http://www.sharp-ssp.co.jp/products/kigyou...003/shiyou.html (http://www.sharp-ssp.co.jp/products/kigyoumuke/zaurus/PocketPC2003/shiyou.html)
I love my 6000W, but I find what they did to it so disgusting.
I really wonder what sharp is doing to its linux base with such moves :-/
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Yeah... remeber the silver 6000w clone w. 128 ram that hitachi announced last year? makes me even more sure the hitachi was a z in drag.
Would love to get my hands on one, though (hitiachi 128m z... not wince for my 6k)
Does this mean that sharp has more 6ks?
that sharp is well on the road to abandoning linux?
or is this some weird in-country marketing thing that only makes sense in japan?
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If these sell well, it may at least mean that batteries won't be so hard to find.
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Let's all cross fingers for new production batteries...
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my opinion - the zaurus line won't last for long...
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Look at it this way, at least we know we can put linux on it!
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If it could dual boot, that wouldn't suck. Windows Mobile has some useful applications.
Or better yet, VMware for ARM.
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my opinion - the zaurus line won't last for long...
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ugh.
then what? nokia? oqo? laptops? weird ipod keyboard hacks?
Surely some kind of reasonable reference design based on commonly available parts (and off the shelf batteries, my crusade of the season) could generate interest somewhere? maybe gamepark could be convinced to do a vga clamshell?
Vmware for arm? hmmmm
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Really Nokia seems like the best bet. They've already given more back to the open source community in 1 year or so than Sharp has in more than 3. The 770 is a little big to use as a handheld, but it seems more like a test platform anyways. Maybe a Nokia phone/pda based on Linux?
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There's also the Motorola Linux phones, though they're not fully open.
Best hope right now for linux on handhelds simular to Zaurus is PalmOS for Linux, pending Palmsource ever releases it.
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Personally, I don't care what OS a gadget comes pre-installed with, as long as it can be reflashed. If Sharp can improve on the Zaurus hardware and grow their market by developing PocketPCs, I say it's good for all of us too. Maybe it would even bring them back outside Japan.
All you "yuck yuck PocketPC" complainers should think about the big picture. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy batteries again?
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Personally, I don't care what OS a gadget comes pre-installed with, as long as it can be reflashed. If Sharp can improve on the Zaurus hardware and grow their market by developing PocketPCs, I say it's good for all of us too. Maybe it would even bring them back outside Japan.
All you "yuck yuck PocketPC" complainers should think about the big picture. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy batteries again?
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Yeah.... but...
Think about what a pain it is to get linux on an axim (if it goes at all) with NO linux support at all everything would have to be back engineered from scratch, possibly putting new roms years after hardware releases. Not a good situation.
I am hoping:
a). we get the off-the shelf battery packs for the Z's going
. sharp sticks with linux
c). nokia makes a clamshell 770 with a cf slot
d). something new comes along
e). the tiqit gets built
etc.
otherwise the future holds a small laptop and a big linux smartphone.
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Think about what a pain it is to get linux on an axim (if it goes at all) with NO linux support at all everything would have to be back engineered from scratch, possibly putting new roms years after hardware releases. Not a good situation.
otherwise the future holds a small laptop and a big linux smartphone.
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sadly, I agree. If linux on undocumented hardware was not very hard (i.e. not trivial but not difficult) then
* linux on axims would be commonplace
* the HTC universal would already be running linux
I am wondering why the Zaurus C3100 and 1000 models have become relatively cheap of late compared to when they were first released... I hope it's not because Sharp is dumping stock and discontinuing the models? If they are thinking of it, we can only hope they will do a version with mickeysoft mobile on it and at least preserve it.
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I am wondering why the Zaurus C3100 and 1000 models have become relatively cheap of late compared to when they were first released... I hope it's not because Sharp is dumping stock and discontinuing the models? If they are thinking of it, we can only hope they will do a version with mickeysoft mobile on it and at least preserve it.
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I was under the impression that the prices reflected an adjustment of the value of the yen, which had been high (at least vs. the USD) for the past few years.
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I was under the impression that the prices reflected an adjustment of the value of the yen, which had been high (at least vs. the USD) for the past few years.[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=105284\")
If you look at the cost history in yen, that will eliminate any price changes due to the fluctuation of the USD to yen conversion rate. The C1000 and C3100 have dropped about 33% from MSRP.
SL-C1000 [a href=\"http://www.kakaku.com/prdsearch/detaillowprice.asp?PrdKey=00303010243]price history[/url] MSRP: 49,800 street: 33,490
SL-C3100 price history (http://www.kakaku.com/prdsearch/detaillowprice.asp?PrdKey=00303010245) MSRP: 79,800, street: 54,000
SL-6000W price history (http://www.kakaku.com/prdsearch/detaillowprice.asp?PrdKey=00303010217) MSRP: 79,800, street: same
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Think about what a pain it is to get linux on an axim (if it goes at all) with NO linux support at all everything would have to be back engineered from scratch, possibly putting new roms years after hardware releases. Not a good situation.
I partially agree with you. But I also think there isn't really that much interesting in Linux on Axim. I mean, the hardware is not superior to other devices (iPaq, Zaurus) that do have working Linux. I think if Sharp did abandon Linux and (for example) produced a successor to the 3100 that had all of our wishlist features but not Linux, the motivation would be there to get it done.
But I don't necessarily think that would happen anyway. Unlike the rest of world, Zauruses made good sales in Japan, so I'm not sure why Sharp would mess with that. I'm thinking if they continued to sell Linux Zaurus in Japan, and identical hardware with Windows for the rest of the world, then it's win/win for everyone.
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Well,
I just talked to a friend in Japan last night. And for this topic anyway it looks like things just aren't going our way on one hand, and VERY MUCH our way on another. He was commenting on the status of Linux in Japan in general and while there has been a tremendous groundswell in a grass-roots movement for Linux-hacking, several of the larger corporations who are heavily vested in Linux are either divesting themselves of their Linux content altogether or trying to reposition themselves into other markets.
Apparently Sharp and other corps had originally gone the Linux route with the hopes of being able to offer cheaper devices without having to pay the Windows licensing fees. As a typical move Microsoft has dropped to the point of just about giving their Os's away to combat this while trying to woo the linux based corps back with comments on how hideous Linux is to provide support for while Windows is the opposite. *excuse me I need to go puke" They are also stressing that the reason that the Sharp line failed in the US, is that Americans hate Linux and only use Windows devices. As proof of this propaganda they offer the fact that they dominate the market in the US by a huge margin. Circular reasoning at it's finest.
Another tremor undermining our hopes is the actions of the "former" Lindows. Lindows had actually gained a LOT of ground in Japan amongst national users and it was the only OS that would allow Japanese menus/titles while switched to an English country code for language display and vice versa. It's also hot swappable between the two without having to reboot. This was ideal for many corporations as many of thier employees must deal with both languages throughout the business day. (Also fueled by the Japanese taking a HUGE amount of pride in being able to speak English- it has become standard doctrine in most corps that if you can't speak at least semi-fluent English that you either suck at your job, or that your employer sucks because their employees do not speak English. Or both.
Anyway back to Lindows- they are abandoning their own product and have greatly cut back their technical support hours and options for it. They are expected within the next month or so to stop all technical support altogether. Instead they have bought heavily into another Linux Distribution and are emphasizing all new r&d to be done on it. (I THINK it's TurboLinux but I can't gaurantee that's right. Somebody verify this or get my lie straight for me please!) Anyway, they have no intentions of tailoring their distribution efforts to anything except the mainstream "pure linux user" for the time being and have stopped their advertising campaign that wooed so many Japanese into trying their product.
As for the cost dropping so radically for the newer clamshells it's POSSIBLE it's just due to normal sales. In fact, sales are fever pitched high in Japan for the models with the 4gb drive embedded. My friend is not Zaurus literate in the least and when I mentioned having a C3100 shipped to me from pricejapan he immediately asked, "Is that the one with the 4gb hard drive?" They seem to have hit the marketing hype for success in Japan directly on target this time. It's hard for us here in the States to understand why they deimphasized the USB-host forexample for so long etc., but it's because we have different expectations and needs. In Japan they apparently put a HUGE (even more than their own marketing presumed) value on bulk storage space. I guess it's a rough equivalent to the not-quite-in-the-know average American consumer who goes looking for a computer and only has a processor speed (in mhz of course) written down on a scrap piece of paper that he got from his nephew Jimbob who is really great with computers who said that was the only thing he needed to look for when buying a new computer. But for whatever the reason the Japanese have gone friggin' NUTS over the new clamshells with the Microdrives. USB based storage and expansion devices are also a big thing over there right now- they're going through the same "OH MY GOSH U CAN HOOK A 20GB HDD VIA THE USB PORT" that we went through here on the forums. (Should we tell them that Sharp gave all that to us over a year ago and neglected to sell the model in their own country till recently?) Sharps made enough money that they're apparently dropping prices in an attempt to go for the markets jugular in Japan and flood their competitors out.
If so then all I have to say is GOOOOO SHARP! This may be the ONLY thing that can turn the tables on a bleak future for Embedded Linux. If they have a huge show-stopping resounding success in their home market by offering a Linux based handheld AND the market shows longer term stability then we're golden. But with our luck all the marketing research will chalk the mega-sales up to the imbedded HDD instead of having anything to do with the OS. Be on the lookout for a slew of Windows based PDA's with imbedded microdrives. If Sharp can retain their market share in the face of all comers, it's just gravy from there. If not our embedded Linux outlook will be severely limited for quite a while to come. There's just too many new linux based devices that are flopping in the marketplace right now (PepperPad for example- I think that's unfair to blame on the Linux ROM- personally I think they built for an imaginary target market that turned out not to exist but thats just my opinion.)
A final word about the Windows os on the lookalike 6000. I had heard the rumor that Sharp was expirementing with Windows on the 6000 during the time period right before they cut sales off here in the states. I'm curious that if they buy Microsofts phoney bill of goods and twisted logic if they will indeed re-offer 6000's based on Windows either here or in Japan. It would be a smart marketing move as they already have everything fab and die'd up to manufacture them, and even a year later they are STILL near the high end of PDA developement here in the states. (That probably translates into "never gonna happen" because Sharp is GAURANTEED to make the wrong decision when it comes to marketing decisions in the US!) But if it does then heck ya, I'd plop down money on a 128mb ram, bluetooth/WiFi equipped SL-6000! Heck yah, and I'd have it Nand flashed to Linux so quick it would make yer head spin! And YES that would certainly fix the battery supply issue for good.
So there's the pro's and con's of the embedded Japanese Linux outlook from the streek-walkers level in Japan. YMMV but that's what I've been told and most of it I've easily verified. It has the worrisome ring of truth at any rate.
BUT for now I don't wanna think about it. I just wanna be happy with my SL-6000 and C3100. Maybe if I ignore the problem it will go away. *sigh*
Somberly Yours,
-NeuroShock
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Thanks for the insight into the Japanese market. In any case, from our perspective, que sera, sera, since there is nothing we can do to influence corporate decision making.
But I still think, worst case, if a Windows device with very compelling and superior hardware design becomes available, a Linux port won't be far behind. With or without support from the manufacturer.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
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just hope i win the lotttery so i can mass produce our own product linux pda running on x environment.
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It's the very same hardware, only different software. Sharp may have purchased a reference design or resold it to hitachi (htc does that often) A nand restore should be simply needed to convert it to linux.
I'm a little bit curious if the other way will work. Anyone have a NAND image for the Hitachi?
(Don't worry, I'm not going to the dark side here, I just want to try it and see what happens)
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I would be interested in getting a nand image from the Hitachi. I doubt this will happen b/c as far as i know, in the pocet pc world you cant update the operating system. If you PPC runs MS 2003 you have to buy a new PPC to get MS 2005 and such. Correct me if i am wrong. I have never owned a PPC but that is what i have read.
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I would be interested in getting a nand image from the Hitachi. I doubt this will happen b/c as far as i know, in the pocet pc world you cant update the operating system. If you PPC runs MS 2003 you have to buy a new PPC to get MS 2005 and such. Correct me if i am wrong. I have never owned a PPC but that is what i have read.
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MS 2003 -> MS 2005 is a business decision by the Vendors. They want you to buy a new machine. Technically it's quite possible if the Vendors were willing to port and release it. The whole OS is stored in Flash memory. (that's also why you can reflash them with Linux)
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Anyone know how to buy one? I want to try it out.
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Anyone know how to buy one? I want to try it out.
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You can get situations where the OS can be replaced, O2 XDA One can be upgraded from 2002 to 2003 free as far as I know, (I'll find out for definate in a few weeks) It's just not popular, because they don't sell more that way.
The Hitachi is OEMed from Sharp, it IS a HC6000 as far as I know. The only question is, what differences are there between the HC-6000N and SL-6000W?
Ferret.
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I just re-read the (Mozilla translated) Sharp announcement in the first post here. Am I blind, or is there no mention at all of wifi or bluetooth on the Windows 6000? Wouldn't it be listed in the features if it was there?