OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: n8a on February 10, 2004, 06:23:39 pm
-
I\'m a 5500 user, I have a friend who\'s in the zaurus market, and I\'m considering a personal upgrade myself. Some of these models are looking very nice, and I\'m considering upgrading and letting him try out the 5500, but the market is changing and I\'m wondering... If you were a new purchaser, would you:
- buy a new 5500 on eBay or elsewhere for ~ $180
- buy a new 5600 on eBay or elsewhere for ~ $300???
- buy a c760? c860?
- wait for the 6000 to come out and then re-evaluate?
- other
Obviously, it\'s easy to say \"Buy the c860!\", but I\'m asking everyone to think about it in terms of the money differential as well: Is the c860 worth more than a 5500 + ~ $450?
I\'m just curious as to everyone\'s personal opinions. If you just bought a c860 and are loving it, I\'d love to hear about that, your comparison to using the 5500/5600 as well, etc.
I\'d appreciate anyone\'s feedback! I just didn\'t want to make any rash moves w/o first consulting the community
-
I should add, I\'m leaning towards a c760 purchase, and I wonder if there are any major reasons that people can provide to be hesitant. Not totally sure what the going price is, but I\'ve been monitoring them here and there.
Will the specs for the SL-6000 be far superior to the c-series Zaurii?
-
C750/760...believe me none has given me so much satisfaction as this one. I\'ve used a Zire 71, PPC, SL5500....this seems to be the perfect pda.
Also see how few complaints you hear frcom Cxxx users
-
Spending the extra money will be worth it when I get that much money. I\'m looking at the extra RAM I can get if I install the OpenZaurus ROM. Running both apache and mysql slows down my 5500 right now.
I\'d go for the C860 simply because that\'s the one I can get through theKompany and they will upgrade all my programs for free when I buy from them.
-
Yep agreed they are little expensive...maybe get a C750?
-
Before the 6000 comes out, get a 760 or 860. After the 6000 comes out, get a 760 or 860! I can\'t believe how brain-dead Sharp is about the US market. They should have put the bluetooth and wireless into the 860 for their \"enterprise version\". When the keyboard is open, I want landscape not portrait. I just don\'t get the 6000 at all. I had a 5500 and lept at the 860. I do agree with Sharp that they are not going to take the retail market by storm, so either quit or put their best product in the market.
-
The 860 all the way, unless you can get a 760 for a few bucks cheaper. Yes it is quite a bit more than a 5500, but I still feel that it was worth every penny.
-
Out of curiosity, with the 760\'s & 860\'s, etc., how easy is it to use the keyboard while on the go? Can you hold the unit in one hand and enter text with the other, or is the keyboard only useful when you are sitting at a desk?
Otherwise, I think the ultimate solution would be the 6000 (or 5x00) with a wallet-style case that has a built-in keyboard. Of course, I haven\'t seen such a keyboard-case yet, but it would be neat anyways :-).
-
I use it with two hands \"on the go\" typing with thumbs or I peck with a few fingers when its on a desk. If I need one-handed operation (no porn jokes please!), I fold it into \"keyboardless\" mode (great for reading e-books for example). I had the 5500 previously and find this much easier. It took a little while to get used to the keyspace differences, but its a huge improvement.
-
I would rather like to get a 760/860, I can\'t justify the price to myself. It would make a nice addition to my 5500. Now to scheme a way to get work to buy one for me
AS for sharp, yeah, it was obvious even when I got my 5500 that sharp were a bunch of slackers in this country. The biggest reason I use sharp rom 3.1 is that it syncs reliably with outlook, which I use at work.
-
If I had the bread, I\'d buy a c860, if not, a 5500
-
I would rather like to get a 760/860, I can\'t justify the price to myself.
You can get a 700 for under $400. It\'s not as good as a 760, but it sure beats the crap out of a 5500.
-
I use it with two hands \"on the go\" typing with thumbs or I peck with a few fingers when its on a desk. If I need one-handed operation (no porn jokes please!), I fold it into \"keyboardless\" mode (great for reading e-books for example). I had the 5500 previously and find this much easier. It took a little while to get used to the keyspace differences, but its a huge improvement.
MMMMMFMFFFF....MMFFFFFF!!! DAMN IT!!!!! Whew...that was close...a porn joke almost slipped out
-
ya, 700s are great for a second or spare.. but spend the bucks to get a 760 or 860.
yes, the keyboard is awesome.
64mb ram makes a difference for any power user.
Scott
-
having a 5500, and knowing 1st hand the limitations of low memory, I would not scrimp. I\'d do without and save up... memory is king. more important to me than raw speed.
Bottom line is that I don\'t need a new pda, my 5500 is doing what it needs to. a 760 would be nothing more than a toy to me. I mostly use my 5500 as a calander and ebook reader.
-
Man, I\'m really just looking for excuses to buy one, then along comes nitup, with WAY too much logic
I constantly bounce back and forth between whether or not to buy the c760/c860, just based on price, but I certainly have my hands full with the 5500 and I really don\'t *need* it. Never mind that that never stopped me before! AFter seeing the comments on here, mixed with my own feelings regarding the cXXX layout (which seems like the perfect design to me), I will end up buying one, but with I\'ll try to wait... keep my eyes and ears open for a great deal. Or at least try...
Thanks for all the feedback, and I\'ll have my friend look on here to and do his own homework to determine what he wants, with a little of my input and perhaps some time with the 5500, if I can part with it.
-
Man, I\'m really just looking for excuses to buy one, then along comes nitup, with WAY too much logic
oops, sorry. If it makes you feel any better I just blew a bunch of cash on camera gear. gotta keep the toys flowing
-
I really have no clue as to why I would like to update. I have the sl5500 and if I do happen to update, i would purchase a handheld with built in mic and speaker and a longer battery life to add to the current well worth purchase of the sl 5500.
On a side note, i was looking at a tungsten t3, nice screen and all...made my mouth water. Since i use my pda for literaly everything, i would wait for the perfect screen. If the sl6000 comes around, its a no-brainer for me as long as it improves upon my current pda.
If i want to update, it must have longer batterylife, mic, speaker, beautifull screen to look at and excellent sync with linux and windblows. To add a bit more, nicer screen than sl5500 and software compatability from sl5500 to the new pda for.
I\'m basically waiting for the sl6000 and if i dont like it, i need to make sure that my next pda has mic, sound, earjack.etc, and nicer screen.
Cresho
http://home.earthlink.net/~cresho/ (http://home.earthlink.net/~cresho/)
-
My 5500 was definitely my favourite pda ever (joint first with the psion 5mx), but the new clamshell 860 has changed my mind for good and is probably the first machine to fully replace my broken but not forgotten psion 5. Here are the major reasons i wouldnt buy another 5500 and save up for a clamshell instead if mine broke:
1. After a few days on the 640x480 screen, a glance at the 5500\'s screen and it looks reassuringly ugly in comparison, dim and blocky... and this was the screen everyone has wowed over every time u brought out your color pda...
2. A reallish keyboard, enough for instant messaging and email/web browsing, but the most important thing is that it works in landscape mode, while you cannot type easily on the 5500 rotated to landscape (ditto with the 6000). With a pocketop external keybd i have honestly not touched my laptop in university or otherwise in months...
3. Battery life.... ran out for the first time on the go yesterday, but had my spare 5500 battery with me.... The 860 takes a lot to run out of power, in comparison the 5500 was almost always on low battery, even tho i hadnt used it for mp3\'s/wifi, my 860 seems to last longer even with mp3 or wifi enabled.
4. DOESNT LOSE ITS INTERNAL MEMORY WHEN THE BATTERY RUNS OUT.. This is possibly one of the most important differences for me, no more resets wiping out all my programs five minutes after class has started or in the middle of a business meeting.
5. Stylish and Powerful and it feels very solid... All in all, the memory is huge (havent run out and i filled my 5500 and sd pretty easily), speed is improved... looks are very sexy and it can run a full debian install which is completely mindblowing as well as incredibly useful when working on holiday! I read a lot of ebooks, and this is the best ebook reader i have found over the years, i would not swap it for any other pda (or laptop) on the market (plus the 860 is much better with pdf files).
this is the closest you will get to a pocket sized laptop, in fact i tend to take this more places than my old zaurus, as i find it more practical and useful as well as that little bit smaller. Im hooked.... shame about the support from sharp though, then again none of the computers i have loved in my life have ever had good technical support.
(One note, some have said the 860 screen is not good in sunlight... i have thought this at times but generally have just turned the backlight to full and the display is readable although perhaps my screen protector helps reflect light, the 6000 series would be better in this respect, but this is probably the only advantage over the 860 that would tempt me, built in wifi/bluetooth would be nice but i prefer a modular approach so i can switch cf cards as the wireless standards move forward).
-
Everything said here is true. The landscape 640 x 480 to the wonderful keyboard are good reasons to get a 760/860. No need for home on SD or swap files. The most activity on ROMs currently are for the C series. That seems to be the future direction of the software. Cacko X11 has no 5x00 version!!
-
Allow me to inject a sour note here. I was an early proponent of handheld PCs (as opposed to PDAs). In the late \'80s, early \'90s, I bought a POQET PC (DOS based; clamshell form). It was, indeed, very slick. After a few years, however, the connection between the screen and the keyboard/computer broke. I have always assumed this was just from having been open/closed as often as it was. I have been wary of clam-forms ever since.
I\'ll stick with my 5500.
-
I was really excited about the 6000 ... until Sharp\'s Zaurus developer site disappeared. Now I\'m in a holding pattern.
For myself, I won\'t buy another PDA without at least built-in Bluetooth (and preferably WiFi). The specs on the 6000 were ideal. BUT, things just don\'t seem to be going the right way with the Zaurus today. There are no signs of a decent sync solution for Mac OS X, or Linux for that matter. Sharp doesn\'t seem to be making the specs available for the community to build their own sync solution either. Then the developer site just goes away without notice.
So I guess if it was me, I\'d be waiting for the 6000, mostly just to see what Sharp does with it\'s developer community and whatever other focus changes are coming along with its release.
-
Allow me to inject a sour note here. I was an early proponent of handheld PCs (as opposed to PDAs). In the late \'80s, early \'90s, I bought a POQET PC (DOS based; clamshell form). It was, indeed, very slick. After a few years, however, the connection between the screen and the keyboard/computer broke. I have always assumed this was just from having been open/closed as often as it was. I have been wary of clam-forms ever since.
This is all down to the design of the connection. I have not heard of anybody with a clamshell zaurus having a problem. I have had problems with my 5500 keys stopping working, not the keyboard underneath but the big silver keys on top. This was easily fixed by giving the runners a good clean.
I have both 5500 and c760. The c760 is so much better than the 5500 in every single aspect that it is definately worth the extra money.
I only use my 5500 for testing, and reading ebooks now. The only reason I still use it as an ebook reader rather han the c760 is because I often fall asleep and end up dropping it on the floor. I would rather drop my 5500 than my c760.
As anonuk pointed out, the 5500 screen now looks rubbish when I first start using it after the brilliant c760 screen.
The 6000 also looks like it is a good piece of kit, but if early reports are anything to go by, it will end up costing much more than importing a clamshell from Japan. I already have wifi and bluetooth cards so I would be paying for something I already have.
I have also heard reports that the zthin serial cable which can be used on all current Zauri with the keyboard accessible, cannot be used on the 6000 with the keyboard accessible :shock:
What\'s the point of having a serial cable connecting to a server/router and not being able to use the keyboard!
No other device currently on the market comes close to the clamshells for useabilty, power, expandability and desirabilty. And probably a few more *abilties as well.
Peter.
-
I was really excited about the 6000 ... until Sharp\'s Zaurus developer site disappeared. Now I\'m in a holding pattern.
Actually the Zaurus developer site hasn\'t dissapeared, it is just not accesible unless you modify your hosts file like someone suggested in another thread.
Sharp is blisfully unaware that the site can not be accessed. I have had a series of email exchanges with a Sharp support person asking why the site is down, and she insists that the site is up, as she can see it from her computer. I tried to explain that because she can see it on the internal network doesn\'t mean that the rest of the world can access it, but she doesn\'t seem to get it. I get the impression that she is starting to think that I am some sort of crackpot that doesn\'t know how to use a web browser, as she has stopped responding.
Clive
-
c760 - flashed with c860 rom (unless c860 is not much more expensive)
1. clam shell protects the screen with closed. tried the g2, didn\'t like it.
2. keyboard is very useable, with or without desk. when standing, either hold with both hands\' fingers and thumbs-type or hold on palm of one hand and type with the other. both ways works for me.
-cs
-
You\'ve started a long discussion with this question, that\'s for sure!
For my part I have owned a SL-5500 Zaurus over the past 10 months and love it. The older 5500 has the advantage that it is a bit longer in the tooth than the other Sharp models, and more of the available applications run on it without problem. Another thing in its favour is the particularly low price. On Ebay, or in second-hand computer exchange stores you can pick up a SL-5500 for $150 (in the US) or £150 (in the UK), possibly less. It never ceases to amaze me how good all the Zaurus models are, they are fantastic. If I had money to waste I would probably get myself a 2nd 5500, as a test/development unit, a SL-C860 as the preferred unit (assuming it comes up to expectations), and an SL-6000 because I\'d love the inbuilt wireless lan and bluetooth (and the spare CF and SD slots).
The screen on the SL-CXX0 and SL-6000 models appears awesome (I\'ve not seen one, other than photos). It would make web-browsing, document-reading, coding, and image-viewing very pleasant. The larger CXX0 keyboard must make entering text a breeze, especially compared to the typical pda that doesn\'t even have a keyboard.
The demo of the video player running on the SL-C760 makes me envious! It seems to have a much better framerate (less skipping/slowdown) than the 5500, not to mention the landscape view is much better for viewing movies. Indeed, the form-factor of the CXX0 makes it much better than the 6000 (because of the relative keyboard location) or 5500 for most tasks.
The problems I have with my 5500 include:
- Battery life. No way near long enough. The SL-CXX0 and SL-6000 models seem to address this (and even the 5600 does too).
- Memory for installing. The C760/C860 has a nice big chunk of onboard memory, plenty for many apps and games.
- Inbuilt speaker or microphone. The SL5500 needs a plugin headphone/speaker/mike to go into the stereo jack.
- Case finish quality on the 5500 could be improved. The silver effect scratches off. Shame they didn\'t use brushed-aluminium or other nice quality finish.
- I use Wireless Lan CF card, much of the time. As this is not built-in (unlike the SL-6000), it uses up a CF slot, which could be used for other things.
My \'killer\' 5500 application is qpeGPS navigation software, which I use with a GPS compactflash card, and a bundle of maps downloaded (via getmaps Linux app) installed onto SD card. The CXX0 or SL6000 would not be as useful to me if I could not get this to work on them. I\'ve heard on the ZUG forums that it does run on the CXX0, but you have to squint even more than the 5500, thanks to screen fineness.
So, what do I conclude from all this:
Well, the C860 is probably my preferred model, as long as I can get it to do all the things I want it to (qpeGPS, etc). The 5500 is definitely the most affordable model, and can manage just about any task you throw at it. I probably wouldn\'t bother with a 5600, because there is little to differentiate it from the 5500. The 6000 is appealing for the screen, quality/rugged build, inbuilt wlan and bluetooth, and free CF / SD slots.
Unfortunately, I am far too poor (mortgage, car, bills and outgoings) to consider the nicer models, at least for a while longer. Hope you fully enjoy the one you finally decide upon.
Regards,
Edo.
-
The 5500 is a fine model. Especially now. I found it ironic that I finally got the 5500 at a very productive state and then I give it to my sister. To me the 5500 with tkcrom version 1 is bullet proof and a good value for a $150 investment (current price). It is a powerful PDA.
The 760/860 is a different class. It is more like a mini laptop with some PIM functions. The software maturity is only starting to come around. The new sets of PIMs (kopi and qualender) are showing great promise.
All Zs are cool.
-
Having just seen the models (never used them) the 6000 seems to be the best of the breed in all ways except the keyboard of the C7xx series.
I think the 6000 has the extra valkue addition in the 4\" screen size (notwithstanding the built-in WiFi-BT). The extra screen size (even thoug a snall differential from the 3.7\" C7xx screen size) makes it so much more usefull as a laptop replacement. The extra viewing size does add to the benefit of a handheld PDA.
The keyboard of the C7xx is no doubt the best as well as the clamshell formfactor, but I would love to see a clamshell with the 4\" transflective screen of the 6000.
Built-in wifi/BT is not so much a necesity since I would like to have expandibilty and scalability thru the CF slots. Built-in Wifi just increases the obsolecence factor of any model in time.
The 6000, if correctly priced is very attarctive too. zMike I disagree here with you, I think sharp did a great job with the 6000. Inspite of the lack of a bigger keyboard the smaller one does work pretty good on a handheld form-factor. In fact I cant imagine a PDA without a 5500 like keyboard at the least. And the fact the someone prefers to have landscape while using a keyboard is just a preference of some.
Still using a 5000D with the /home of SD - this PDA rocks - but its about time I upgraded.
-
I\'ll weigh in here. I recently bought a 5600 at the $300 price, and so far I\'m pretty happy with it. Eventually I might upgrade to a japanese clamshell model, but only if they release one with built in wifi and bluetooth, since I use both, and carrying both cards around is irritating, not to mention that I would prefer to use my CF slot for other things. So, if I\'m going to spend that kind of money and hassle to get from an importer, I want something that is nearly perfect. With regards to the SL-6000, I may end up getting one, but first I\'ll wait and see what the pricing and availability are like. (and whether or not a wifi/bluetooth clamshell is announced)
The keyboard on the 5600 is very usable, sure its no clamshell, but I\'m finding I can still use it pretty efficiently. Overall, its good bang for the buck right now.
-
Just a quick note about the deficiencies of the sl-5500 compared to the other models, and what you can do about them:
1) Fly-away screen cover
This is one of the more anoying things about the 5500/5600. After a bit of use, the hinge stops wear out, so the cover doesn\'t stay up. Also, I\'m always woried about it breaking.
Solution: Piel Frama or Covertech case. These cases have a flap cover, and lets you use the Zaurus while in the case.
2) Screen orientation & keyboard
The built-in keyboard is a bit better than on-screen text entry, but not good for long emails or coding sessions.
Solution: external Pocketop or Targus keyboard. Not ideal, as it\'s another item to carry around, but you can use a small camera case to carry both the Zaurus and foldable keyboard. What would be ideal is if you could get something like a Piel Frama case, with a side flap instead of top flap, and with a built-in membrane keyboard in the flap. I doubt that we\'ll see something like this though. Another idea is to velcro an external keyboard to the back of the Zaurus.
3) Limited memory
Solution: Re-compile the kernel so that you have a different memory split, leaving more available ram and less for the ramdisk. Then use a rom that lets you have /home on the SD card, and get as big of an SD as you can find. Since the SD slot is only good for memory, it\'s not too much of a bummer to have the SD slot tied up all the time for this purpose. I\'m also working on instructions to dual-boot a 5500 so you can run an alternate rom completely off the SD card. And, what I do to maximize space, is periodically I\'ll take all the binaries, and move them into a cramfs image, with symlinks pointing to them, and mounting the cramfs image on something like /mnt/cfs. This ends up saving a bunch of space (and speeds up program loading too).
The SD is slower than ram, so you\'ll also want to compile your kernel without the CONFIG_FS_SYNC flag set (this is an addition by Sharp that forces sync i/o, even if you mount your SD card with -o async). This kernel option is under the File Systems config menu, called \"Synchronous file I/O\", or something like that. Then you\'ll want the SD card mounted with \"-o async,noatime\".
4) Short battery life
Not much you can do here, except maybe keep the screen brightness down as low as is readable. This can more than double the battery life between the lowest and highest settings. Also, you can use an external battery pack, but you then have more bulk to carry. Or, if you use it in the office, keep it docked when not in use, and grab it whenever you run off to a meeting.
Also, remove CF cards when you aren\'t using them, some don\'t have a good low-power standby mode. And shop around for lower-power wireless cards, if this is your main battery drain.
5) Screen size/resolution
Ok, you\'ve got me here, this is an area where I would definately like a 6000 or cxxx model. But, for $180 for the 5500, I can\'t complain too much.
6) Speed
Again, very little you can do to improve this aspect. The only thing I can think of that the cpu speed makes a difference on is in playing movie clips. Here, just play around with compression ratios and codecs till you find one that is optimal.
-
Man, posting this was a good idea - it sounds like there are quite a few takes on the usability and viability of the 5X00s, and there are a lot of people who think the cXXX series is as good as it gets for now. Then again, many are happy with the 5X00 series and are eagerly awaiting the 6000. All in all, great purchasing advice for those currently in the market.
For me, the built-in bluetooth and wifi aren\'t such a big deal since I have cards for both that would then go to waste (and I would therefore hate to pay a huge premium). I like the additional internal space, and I think that the format of the cXXX series has won me over. One concern that I have is that the WiFi/other CF card sticks out the side, and may interfere with being able to two-thumb type. Other than that, I think that the unit seems perfect for my taste.
-
OK, going to wade in here with my take on owning a sl5600 (which I bought about a month before Amazon dropped the price from USD 500 to USD 300). Bah.
Physical attributes aside, my main hassle has been software based. On the Sharp ROM, the calendar, to-do list, and Notes all sync with my PC after a fashion. Its not as good as my old Palm, but its bearable. This was one of my requirements.
The other thing I wanted to do with it was to use it as a network troubleshooting device. To that end I\'ve been able to get Kismet and nmap to run on it. However I haven\'t been able to get Wellenreiter, a decent notes application, the screen rotation applet, ethereal, or airsnort to run on it. Probably some others as well. These have all been adapted to run on the 5500, and will run on the 5600 if I change to OpenZaurus ROM. However if I change to the OZ rom, it is currently too unstable to use (took me 6 hours of conf file hacking to get my wireless card to half work for eg.) and I have to forgo the PC synchronization.
In short, the software just isn\'t there for the 5600 at the moment, I\'m sad to say.
-
Same here, the 5500 still beats the crap out of PocketPC devices when doing administrative work remotely. Although I also use an Ipaq 1945, I just use it for games and BioBody. Serious work still requires my 5500, although an upgrade to the newer models would be nice (built-in wifi and bluetooth).
-
I have absolutely no interest in bluetooth or wiffy wifi, so the choice was easy for me, I got my C860 last friday and it is as good as my old 5500 and much much MUCH more. The 6000 didn\'t persuade me to wait, I prefer the usefulness, flexibility and usability of the Cxxx series, I can use it flat or like a laptop or palmtop or even like a traditional PDA/mini-tablet PC depending on mood and situation.
But a Z is a Z, any of them from the 5500 up, is an excellent choice.