OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => General Support and Discussion => Zaurus General Forums => Archived Forums => Software => Topic started by: znpp on December 15, 2005, 03:12:44 am
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Does anyone know of an app that works under Cacko 1.23 that would let me take an existing list I have of English phrases and their foreign equivalents, and then create a quick vocabulary test based on the text file? Sort of like a flashcard system.
The best example of a system like this is TestMe for Psion:
http://www.prosoft.force9.co.uk/series5/testme_osaris.html (http://www.prosoft.force9.co.uk/series5/testme_osaris.html)
znpp
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Does anyone know of an app that works under Cacko 1.23 that would let me take an existing list I have of English phrases and their foreign equivalents, and then create a quick vocabulary test based on the text file? Sort of like a flashcard system.
The best example of a system like this is TestMe for Psion:
http://www.prosoft.force9.co.uk/series5/testme_osaris.html (http://www.prosoft.force9.co.uk/series5/testme_osaris.html)
znpp
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=107161\")
See MyFlashCards here:
[a href=\"http://www.digital-artefacts.fi/~mico/zaurus.html]http://www.digital-artefacts.fi/~mico/zaurus.html[/url]
You can also try these Japanese Flash card programs:
MioFlash It is for Japanese language but it probably should work for other language as well. It is open source. http://miosuite.sourceforge.net/ (http://miosuite.sourceforge.net/)
J-Flash http://alex.2net.at/j-flash.html (http://alex.2net.at/j-flash.html)
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See MyFlashCards here:
http://www.digital-artefacts.fi/~mico/zaurus.html (http://www.digital-artefacts.fi/~mico/zaurus.html)
You can also try these Japanese Flash card programs:
MioFlash It is for Japanese language but it probably should work for other language as well. It is open source. http://miosuite.sourceforge.net/ (http://miosuite.sourceforge.net/)
J-Flash http://alex.2net.at/j-flash.html (http://alex.2net.at/j-flash.html)
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[/quote]
kurochka,
Thanks for the links - I am not familiar with MioFlash and J-Flash, and will give them a try. I tested MyFlashCards on my c700 a few weeks ago, but wasn't able to get the program to work properly.
doumo arigatogozaimasu
Enjoy the new year.
znpp
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I have also been long looking for a simple flash card program and also came across JFlash which is about >THIS< close to offering what I want. Unfortunately, the code is a mess and the author no longer supports it. I have been longer for ages for something as simple as
* three sides to the flash card
* random selection of card but bias towards things which I find harder to memorize (Leitner system)
* compatible with Japanese and German text
* runs on Z, Windows and Linux
Out of my frustration, I created http://gakusei.sf.net (http://gakusei.sf.net) to program something like this as an open-source project. Unfortunately, I have not had time nor skill so far to really accomplish much for the flash card program
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tkcSOQ would be another program. I haven't tried it yet.
http://www.thekompany.com/embedded/tkcsoq/ (http://www.thekompany.com/embedded/tkcsoq/)
Has anyone seen any other flash card programs for Z? Any new development for the programs already mentioned?
If you look at the sample flash card file included with mioFlash program ( /opt/QtParlmtop/mioSuite/flashcards/Verbs.mfs), it will be easy to see the format of the file. I understand that the file must be in utf-8 encoding and have an mfs extension .
Excerpt:
mioFlashCardSet/0.1/Verbs/1 Beginner/Ivan DeCesaris/9 Dec 2003/Test set
買う/かう/ to buy
歩く/あるく/ to walk
急ぐ/いそぐ/ to hurry/to rush
貸す/かす/ to lend
待つ/まつ/ to wait
死ぬ/しぬ/ to die
遊ぶ/あそぶ/ (1) to play/to make a visit (esp. for pleasure)/(2) to be idle/to do nothing
Basically, the format is
First line: mioFlashCardSet/version/NameOfTheSet/Level
The rest of the lines contain flash cards in the following form:
kanji/kana/translation [new line]
For other languages you could have
foreign word/pronunciation/translation [new line]
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I've compiled Granule for pdaXrom here: https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...145998&st=120&# (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18415&pid=145998&st=120&#)
Developer's homepage: http://granule.sourceforge.net/ (http://granule.sourceforge.net/)
But it requires gtkmm2 and libassa. Not sure whether it will work under pdaxqtrom.
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toMOTko (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/)
A small Zaurus application for English speakers learning Japanese. It's a customizable flashcard program that asks words repetitively to acquire new vocabulary and memorize kanji readings/writings. GPL (v 0.1.0)
Author: Frederic Bergeron from France
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Anyone built mnemosyne (http://mnemosyne-proj.sourceforge.net/index.php) for the Z?
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toMOTko (http://sourceforge.net/projects/tomotko/)
A small Zaurus application for English speakers learning Japanese. It's a customizable flashcard program that asks words repetitively to acquire new vocabulary and memorize kanji readings/writings. GPL (v 0.1.0)
Author: Frederic Bergeron
http://zaurus.palmopensource.com/index.php?more=83 (http://zaurus.palmopensource.com/index.php?more=83)
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=148157\")
On April 14th, Frederic released a new version of his program ToMOTko 0.4.2.
I tried some early versions, and they felt too alpha. I will try this one and report.
see [a href=\"http://sourceforge.net/projects/tomotko/]Link[/url]
Added:
Generally, I like the new version. The only thing is that you have to create your study lists from scratch on the Zaurus itself. The format of the list file is some sort of xml. Frederic promises to implement import/export functions. I will try to make my own list on the desktop in this xml format and see what happens
Although the export function appears to be there, I don't know what it is doing. It says that the file was exported successfully but where and in what format?
Actually, I found where the lists are kept.
Its in /home/zaurus/.toMOTko/1.xml
The file is in UTF-16BE encoding with Signature
Here is an example:
to go back; to return
帰る
かえる
Enter a comment/note here.
to go
行く
いく
to listen; to hear
聞く
きく
Does anybody know how I can easily covert my cvs study list into this format? Is there an xml editor that would do it easily?
It will be interesting to see whether the program will be able to handle huge study lists (with thousands of items).
It would be nice to have preinstalled study lists for different levels (beginer, intermediate, advanced) or at least one or two lists for testing.
Yey! I created a study list on my desktop from an excel file for the textbook Genki I. It works!
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For more details about the import/export feature, take a look at the Glossary Manager section of the Online Help (either click the circled question mark button at the top-right corner of toMOTko or consult the web site (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/toMOTko.html)). It will tell you where the exported glossaries are located. It doesn't explain the file format though as I thought it was (mostly) self-explanatory :-)
Here is some additional information about import/export and file format :
Basically, the data of toMOTko are stored in $HOME/.toMOTko (including preferences, glossaries and markedItems, etc). When you export a glossary, what happens is a kind of copy of a glossary file from $HOME/.toMOTko to an external and visible directory (somewhere below $HOME/Documents). The import do the same operation in the opposition direction with some minor transformation (to link it properly to the destination folder). I chose to put toMOTko's data in an hidden directory because I think that most users should not be concerned about such details.
Concerning the XML format :
1) The glossary id is not important when doing an import. Leave it to "1". It may probably be omitted. toMOTko will generate a new id when performing the import and writing/copying the data into $HOME/.toMOTko directory.
2) Each term is a word entry in toMOTko. For now, only Japanese and English are supported so you better stick to "en" and "ja". Hopefully, toMOTko will support other languages in the future.
3) alt is for the furigana representation. alt stands for alternate representation. It could be a phonetic one or something else. For now, I use it only to store furigana.
4) The term id should be unique for each term and should start from 1.
5) Concerning the encoding, I think toMOTko should accept it if it's in UTF-8.
Could you please send a small example of your CSV file. I don't promise anything but if it's not too complicated, and if I have some free time, I could provide you a conversion script.
Edited:
It's funny. While I was writing my message you just mentioned that you succeeded to build a glossary file yourself using Excel. Great!
Edited again:
I've just downloaded your data file and I think it highlights at least one bug (maybe more) in the import procedure. For example, for the White day entry, when the Japanese word is left blank, the English word is reused. That should not happen. I will fix that ASAP. Also, your comment field seems wrong. I suspect that the number you put there may be a kind of identifier to group words together. If I'm right, you should probably leave the comment field empty and generate several glossary files and import all of them individually. Anyway, thanks for the data file. I will check it further later.
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Thank you for such a quick reply!
I will send you a cvs file but basically it is something like this:
word,furigana,kanji,comment
I.e., comma (or tab) separated.
I used Excel to make the huge study list file above.
You will see that the comments contain the lesson number. As it works now, when I start the study list it (in the Manage Glossary window) gets into alphabetical order of the English words and screws my ordering. Is there a way to leave the order the way it is in the study list or alternatively be able to order by comment?
Could you add a function to tick off all words (instead of ticking off every single one)? Or tick off all words in a selection?
I also noticed that for those words that do not have kanji/word, the alt is copied into word field. It's ok. No harm in that.
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Please note that I have edited my previous message. Reread it first.
Also, concerning the function to check all words, it's on the to-do list (check to the website ;-) I need it too so I should implement it in short future.
About the comment field, that's what I thought. Separate glossary files with appropriate glossary name would be better I think. Hence, you could have a folder "Genki 1" containing several glossary files with names like "Lesson 1", "Lesson 2", etc.
You should monitor the toMOTko package on the SourceForge page if it's not already the case. This way, you will be notified automatically when a new version is released.
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About the order of the words, I don't think it's pertinent to keep that information, is it? I think you should not care about it. Especially if you separate your huge file into smaller files (one per lesson), order should not be relevant. Having several smaller files is also more flexible to check words for study as you can check words by lessons using the Tree Pane.
A "work-around" solution would be to prefix a number before each word (something like 001, 002, 003, ...) This way, the alphabetical order will sort your words like you want. Not very elegant but it works.
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http://www.flashcardexchange.com/ (http://www.flashcardexchange.com/)
then i import to tkcsoq csv file but i removed some symbols on the first line to make it compliant for import. or i use http://www.flashcardexchange.com/ (http://www.flashcardexchange.com/) and export pdf file viewable on the zaurus
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Thanks for your suggestions and comments, Frederic.
Yep, I guess breaking it up into smaller study lists is the way to go. As you've guessed it, the comment field indicates the lesson number from the Genki textbook.
As I understand, the file to be imported must be preformatted in the toMOTko format, correct? Does it support any other flashcard formats?
Sometimes when I close the application, it tells me that there is something wrong with permissions and it could not save the changes. I guess this is because I did not use the import function and just hand copied the study list in the hidden directory, right?
I also noticed that my selection of words for quizzes is not saved sometimes when I close the application. I have to tick off the words again after I open the program. But this is not always. This could be connected to the permissions problem above. However, I don't see where in the study list files the selection info is saved. I have not touched any other files.
I've made a separate file for the words from the first five lessons. It's still big. Here is a bug that I noticed (once), when the quiz was 13% complete, it said that I finished all the items although I have not gone through all the words. I will see if this repeats itself (it takes a while to get to 13% of this study list
I guess that your program can be used for any language (or anything else for that matter) even though it would still say English, Japanese, furigana. Furigana can be used for pronunciation. Comment field is great, since I can put examples and grammatical info about the word.
Actually, I noticed that a word ID in the list does not have to start with "0" (when I split the original file, I didn't retag the word ID for the second file). This is good news since I can just split big study lists without retagging them.
Oh, the icon is not very descriptive of what the program does. Well, I have nothing against well-bosomed ladies but still :-)
Cresho, thanks for the link. I will see if there is anything useful for me there.
I think we can get some study lists from
http://wakan.manga.cz/?page=download&lang=en (http://wakan.manga.cz/?page=download&lang=en)
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It appears that there are no hotkeys defined. It would be nice to have:
R - for Right (known)
W - for Wrong (unknown)
S - for See (hint)
This way you could go through a quiz with one thumb and keep the other hand free.
It would also be nice to be able to import study lists in a simplified format for example mioFlash format (I have study lists in that format already):
買う/かう/ to buy/comment
歩く/あるく/ to walk
急ぐ/いそぐ/ to hurry
貸す/かす/ to lend
待つ/まつ/ to wait
死ぬ/しぬ/ to die
or anything that simple.
It would be much easier to create/convert study lists that way.
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As I understand, the file to be imported must be preformatted in the toMOTko format, correct? Does it support any other flashcard formats?
Not at the moment but I'm open to suggestions.
Sometimes when I close the application, it tells me that there is something wrong with permissions and it could not save the changes. I guess this is because I did not use the import function and just hand copied the study list in the hidden directory, right?
Probably.
You can change the permissions manually like this :
zaurus$ cd ~/.toMOTko
zaurus$ chown zaurus.qpe your-glossary-file.xml
zaurus$ chmod 644 your-glossary-file.xml
Also, you could export your glossary file and import it back into a different folder. It's cleaner and it will set the links properly with the other files (tree.xml, marked.xml).
I also noticed that my selection of words for quizzes is not saved sometimes when I close the application. I have to tick off the words again after I open the program. But this is not always. This could be connected to the permissions problem above. However, I don't see where in the study list files the selection info is saved. I have not touched any other files.
I'm not sure but it could be a side-effect of not importing the glossary files properly or possibly wrong id sequence for your terms. Other files like tree.xml and marked.xml use the id field for references. If the same id is used twice, this can provoke strange behavior.
If you ever want to start from scratch, close toMOTko, remove (or just rename it if you want to keep a backup) .toMOTko directory and launch toMOTko. This will create a brand new and clean .toMOTko directory. You can then import your glossary files. This reduces the risk of data corruption caused by manual manipulations.
I've made a separate file for the words from the first five lessons. It's still big. Here is a bug that I noticed (once), when the quiz was 13% complete, it said that I finished all the items although I have not gone through all the words. I will see if this repeats itself (it takes a while to get to 13% of this study list
If you find a way to reproduce it systematically, send me your .toMOTko directory and the steps to trigger the bug. I didn't encounter such a bug so far with 0.4.2 and I'm using it daily.
I guess that your program can be used for any language (or anything else for that matter) even though it would still say English, Japanese, furigana. Furigana can be used for pronunciation. Comment field is great, since I can put examples and grammatical info about the word.
Yes, it can but it's not very clean to abuse the format like that. Also the interface should be improved to handle other languages explicitly.
Actually, I noticed that a word ID in the list does not have to start with "0" (when I split the original file, I didn't retag the word ID for the second file). This is good news since I can just split big study lists without retagging them.
Yeah, probably it doesn't matter so much but one thing that is important is that the term id must be unique for each term in a glossary file. Also, glossary id should be unique for all the glossaries.
Oh, the icon is not very descriptive of what the program does. Well, I have nothing against well-bosomed ladies but still :-)
I thought long time about the icon but the concept of acquiring vocabulary is rather abstract and boring. Most of such applications use icons like a book or a drawer... 詰まらないと考えた... So I imagined that a well-endowed kawaii lady would be better (more distinct and provocative ;-). There are some details about that on the website.
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It appears that there are no hotkeys defined. It would be nice to have:
R - for Right (known)
W - for Wrong (unknown)
S - for See (hint)
This way you could go through a quiz with one thumb and keep the other hand free.
It's on the todo list but it was low priority. But if you ask for it, I may implement it sooner.
It would also be nice to be able to import study lists in a simplified format for example mioFlash format (I have study lists in that format already):
買う/かう/ to buy/comment
歩く/あるく/ to walk
急ぐ/いそぐ/ to hurry
貸す/かす/ to lend
待つ/まつ/ to wait
死ぬ/しぬ/ to die
or anything that simple.
As I want to keep the application's size as small as possible, I don't want to integrate such functionality into toMOTko. However, some separate conversion utility programs could be provided. I could also provide a web front-end to do such a task so no hassles for installing, configuring and executing the conversion application.
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For your information, I put one of my glossary file here (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/en/glossaries.shtml). I will put others when I have some free time.
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Thank you once again, Frederic.
I have been using your app non-stop since I have converted my Genki study lists. I have not come across "early finish" bug yet. Works great! I will submit my Genki study lists once I have worked out all the kinks from them.
I agree that a web or desktop-based conversion utility is a far better approach than clogging the program itself. It could be a simple command line program unless other people protest.
If you don't mind my asking for new stuff, here is another idea. You may just ignore it. Additional revealing orders in settings could be useful: English -> Comments -> furigana -> Japanese or Furigana -> Comments -> Japanese.
This way you could add mnemonics for the kanji in comments and review them before you see the Japanese word. This will work well with hotkeys. So far, I can just tap one the comment to reveal it before anything else. Again, this is a minor point that you may just ignore.
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I agree that a web or desktop-based conversion utility is a far better approach than clogging the program itself. It could be a simple command line program unless other people protest.
If I have time, I will do the MioFlash2ToMOTko conversion service this week-end. I think it's simple (and fun) to do.
If you don't mind my asking for new stuff, here is another idea. You may just ignore it. Additional revealing orders in settings could be useful: English -> Comments -> furigana -> Japanese or Furigana -> Comments -> Japanese.
This way you could add mnemonics for the kanji in comments and review them before you see the Japanese word. This will work well with hotkeys. So far, I can just tap one the comment to reveal it before anything else. Again, this is a minor point that you may just ignore.
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That's not a bad idea. I wrote it on the todo list. I will do it eventually.
Thanks for the feedback. It's very appreciated.
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I thought long time about the icon but the concept of acquiring vocabulary is rather abstract and boring. Most of such applications use icons like a book or a drawer... 詰まらないと考えた... So I imagined that a well-endowed kawaii lady would be better (more distinct and provocative ;-). There are some details about that on the website.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159900\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I've read the explanation on the website. Fun, fun, fun! Right from the beginning, I got that MOT is a "word" from French. Je comprend le Francais en peu mais je manque la pratique. J'ai oublie beaucoup des choses du temps ou j'apprenais le Francais.
I am not even sure if what I wrote in French is comprehensible I don't have a French keyboard layout installed for accents.
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I will be converting the kanji study lists from http://alex.2net.at/j-flash.html (http://alex.2net.at/j-flash.html)
Here is the first example.
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I've completed the MioFlash2ToMOTko converter. Check it out here (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/en/converters.shtml). Tell me if it works well.
Here is the code of the backend script (implemented in Ruby) :
#!/usr/bin/ruby -KU
glossaryName = 'New glossary'
termId = 1
puts ""
puts ""
while( line = gets )
line.chomp!
kanji, furigana, english, comment = line.split( %r{\s*/\s*} )
if( kanji || furigana || english )
puts " "
if( english )
puts " "
puts " " + english + ""
puts " "
end
if( kanji || furigana )
puts " "
puts " " + kanji + "" if( kanji )
puts " " + furigana + "" if( furigana )
puts " " + comment + "" if( comment )
end
puts " "
puts " "
end
termId += 1
end
puts ""
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I've read the explanation on the website. Fun, fun, fun! Right from the beginning, I got that MOT is a "word" from French. Je comprend le Francais en peu mais je manque la pratique. J'ai oublie beaucoup des choses du temps ou j'apprenais le Francais.
I am not even sure if what I wrote in French is comprehensible I don't have a French keyboard layout installed for accents.
Your French is not bad at all.
Thanks for the glossary file from j-flash. Would you give me the permission to put your glossary files on the website of toMOTko? This way, other people could use them. If you agree, I would also mention your "name" (kurochka or something else and/or your email?)
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Wow, you are fast.
Yes, all files that I put here you can post on your website. I am still improving the Genki lists so you may hold on with that one.
I've played with your icon and here is what I have come up with. I think this one is better. I made the colors richer. It is 64X64 and has a transparent background. What are the names of other pics you use in the program? Are they in the pics directory?
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I've added other of my glossaries here (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/en/glossaries.shtml). The zip files contain several small glossary files so if you want to take a look at them, it's better to put them in their own folder before the import.
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Conversion script works fine. I've sent you, Frederic, some study lists that you can post on your site.
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I've played with your icon and here is what I have come up with. I think this one is better. I made the colors richer. It is 64X64 and has a transparent background. What are the names of other pics you use in the program? Are they in the pics directory?
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Thanks. I agree. I may modify it slightly but I think it's looking better. I will integrate the new icon in the next release.
The other images are integrated in the executable itself for efficiency reasons. If you want to take a look at them, you better get them from the subversion repository in the src/icons directory. The images are encoded in xpm format. You probably won't be able to open them with Photoshop but with Gimp, it should be ok. If you're not familiar with subversion, tell me and I will send you an archive containing all the pictures.
Conversion script works fine. I've sent you, Frederic, some study lists that you can post on your site.
Another thanks for testing the conversion script!
I tried to import all the glossaries you sent me. I could not import Kanji101-200 because there was some termination tags missing in the file. I fixed that. Also I had problems with Genki_13/15/17/19/21. I don't know why at the moment but I will check it out this afternoon.
Anyway... I have to say: "Wow!!" That makes a lot of words to learn
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Also I had problems with Genki_13/15/17/19/21. I don't know why at the moment but I will check it out this afternoon.
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I think I know why. The files are in UTF-8 with Signature (there is some sort of data/symbol at the beginning of the file). toMOTko does not like that. It can take UTF-8 *without* Signature.
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Also I had problems with Genki_13/15/17/19/21. I don't know why at the moment but I will check it out this afternoon.
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I think I know why. The files are in UTF-8 with Signature (there is some sort of data/symbol at the beginning of the file). toMOTko does not like that. It can take UTF-8 *without* Signature.
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You're right. Using hexer, I could remove the header and it works. Thanks. I will put the glossary files on the website shortly. Time for lunch...
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It's done. Your glossaries are available on toMOTko's website. Merci beaucoup!
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It's done. Your glossaries are available on toMOTko's website. Merci beaucoup!
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De rien.
I've been thinking. There is something not right with the menu names "import" and "export". Usually, they imply some sort of conversion from one format (external to the program) to another (the format used by the program itself). At least that's my understanding. I think better terms in this case would be "open" and "save."
This is too show that your program works, and I am just nitpicking.
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It's done. Your glossaries are available on toMOTko's website. Merci beaucoup!
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I've been thinking. There is something not right with the menu names "import" and "export". Usually, they imply some sort of conversion from one format (external to the program) to another (the format used by the program itself). At least that's my understanding. I think better terms in this case would be "open" and "save."
This is too show that your program works, and I am just nitpicking.
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I fear I disagree with you. It definitively looks like an import/export to me. Why do I think so?
What you do when you import a file is that you make it available to toMOTko. After doing the import, the glossary belongs to toMOTko and you're free to update it and use it as you want, with no impacts on the imported file (because it's no more used. You can even delete it because its data has been imported/copied to $HOME/.toMOTko). If it was open/save feature, you would need to keep the files in Documents/applications/xml to reopen them later.
Talking of conversion, there is some but it's so minor at the moment that it may not be perceived as a conversion. By that, I mean that the glossary id will change after an import. If you export a previously imported glossary, you will see the change in the XML. That being said, I don't think that import/export has any relation with conversion. Sometimes, these 2 concepts come together but not necessarily all the time. It's just two different concepts. For example, if I export tea into another country, I don't think the tea will be altered/converted when it arrives in the other country.
The same idea applies for bookmarks in Firefox browser for example. Let's say you have 2 computers and that you want to share your bookmarks. What you will do is to export your bookmarks into a temporary file that you will import into the other computer.
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I fear I disagree with you. It definitively looks like an import/export to me. Why do I think so?
What you do when you import a file is that you make it available to toMOTko. After doing the import, the glossary belongs to toMOTko and you're free to update it and use it as you want, with no impacts on the imported file (because it's no more used. You can even delete it because its data has been imported/copied to $HOME/.toMOTko). If it was open/save feature, you would need to keep the files in Documents/applications/xml to reopen them later.
Talking of conversion, there is some but it's so minor at the moment that it may not be perceived as a conversion. By that, I mean that the glossary id will change after an import. If you export a previously imported glossary, you will see the change in the XML. That being said, I don't think that import/export has any relation with conversion. Sometimes, these 2 concepts come together but not necessarily all the time. It's just two different concepts. For example, if I export tea into another country, I don't think the tea will be altered/converted when it arrives in the other country.
The same idea applies for bookmarks in Firefox browser for example. Let's say you have 2 computers and that you want to share your bookmarks. What you will do is to export your bookmarks into a temporary file that you will import into the other computer.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160158\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
This is great! Discussing semantics is fun. I get your point and agree. The winning argument is your example about exporting tea. ;-)
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I've have another study list to share. This one was taken from Watakan lists.
It provides 261 phrases.
Download here (http://www.zshare.net/download/japanesephrases-xml.html).
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Thanks again Kurochka. I've added the file to toMOTko's homepage.
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Some more good sources for vocabulary lists for toMOTko:
http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/jlpt.php3 (http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/jlpt.php3)
http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/index.php3 (http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/index.php3)
http://www.learnwords.com/database.html (http://www.learnwords.com/database.html)
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Frederic, there is a problem with the converter. It deletes letters with diacritics (éêà, etc.)
For example, try converting the following study list:
aceptar/accepter/accept
permitir|dejar/permettre/allow
preguntar/demander/ask
creer/croire/believe
prestar/prêter/borrow
romper/casser/break
traer/apporter|emmener/bring
comprar/acheter/buy
poder/pouvoir/can|be able
cancelar/annuler/cancel
cambiar/changer/change
limpiar/laver/clean
peinar/peigner/comb
quejarse/se plaindre/complain
toser/tousser/cough
contar/compter/count
cortar/couper/cut
bailar/danser/dance
dibujar/dessiner/draw
beber/boire/drink
conducir/conduire/drive
comer/manger/eat
explicar/expliquer/explain
caerse/tomber/fall
llenar/remplir/fill
encontrar/trouver/find
terminar/terminer/finish
caber/contenir/fit
reparar/réparer/fix
volar/voler/fly
olvidar/oublier/forget
dar/donner/give
ir/aller/go
tener/avoir/have
oir/écouter/hear
herir/hurt/dañar/faire du mal|blesser
saber|conocer/savoir|connaître/know
aprender/apprendre/learn
salir|marcharse/sortir|partir/leave
escuchar/écouter/listen
vivir/vivre/live
mirar/regarder/look
perder/perdre/lose
hacer/faire/make|do
necesitar/avoir besoin/need
abrir/ouvrir/open
cerrar/fermer/close|shut
organizar/organiser/organize
pagar/payer/pay
jugar/jouer/play
poner/poser/put
llover/pleuvoir/rain
leer/lire/read
responder/répondre/reply
correr/courrir/run
decir/dire/say
ver/voir/see
vender/vendre/sell
enviar/envoyer/send
firmar/signer/sign
cantar/chanter/sing
sentarse/s´assoir/sit
dormir/dormir/sleep
fumar/fumer/smoke
hablar/parler/speak
deletrear/épeler/spell
gastar/dépenser/spend
ponerse de pie/se mettre debout/stand
comenzar/commencer/start|begin
estudiar/étudier/study
tener exito/avoir du succès/succeed
nadar/nager/swim
tomar/prendre/take
hablar/parler/talk
enseñar/enseigner/teach
decir/dire/tell
pensar/penser/think
traducir/traduire/translate
viajar/voyager/travel
intentar/essayer/try
apagar/éteindre/turn off
encender/allumer/turn on
escribir a máquina/écrire à la machine/type
entender/comprendre/understand
utilizar|usar/utiliser/use
esperar/attendre/wait
despertar/se réveiller/wake up
querer|desear/vouloir|désirer/want
mirar/regarder/watch
trabajar/travailler/work
preocuparse/s´inquieter/worry
escribir/écrire/write
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good stuff those prebuilt flash cards.
I'll give Tomoko a try ( i mean the software...)
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Frederic, there is a problem with the converter. It deletes letters with diacritics (éêà, etc.)
Thanks for reporting this problem.
Actually, the converter works fine. When I give it your data, the accents were still there after conversion. However, after importing the converted file into toMOTko, all the accents are displayed as square boxes . This problem occurs because the font used by toMOTko doesn't support all unicode characters.
You're going ahead of me and using toMOTko in an unexpected way. toMOTko doesn't officially support other languages yet. I understand you can't wait and want to use it to learn other languages though. It's fine. I will add an option to change the font in the next release. I hope you can wait until there. Sorry for this inconvenience.
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Some more good sources for vocabulary lists for toMOTko:
http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/jlpt.php3 (http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/jlpt.php3)
http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/index.php3 (http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/index.php3)
http://www.learnwords.com/database.html (http://www.learnwords.com/database.html)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161551\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I've converted the JLPT word lists and put them on the website. They contain a few minor errors that I will have to fix later. Thanks a lot for these links.
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Hi, I'm still using toMOTko 0.3.0 but just downloaded the latest version. Good work!
I haven't tried it yet but the two features that I'm looking for are 1. keyboard shortcut for adding a new word to glossary and 2. pretty high res icon.
I'm going through JLPT4 and entering words as I go. Will make my glossary available when it's done.
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Hi, I'm still using toMOTko 0.3.0 but just downloaded the latest version. Good work!
Thanks for your encouragement.
I haven't tried it yet but the two features that I'm looking for are 1. keyboard shortcut for adding a new word to glossary and 2. pretty high res icon.
About the high res icon, do you mean the toMOTko application icon? The one with the well-endowed lady? If that's the case, this is done already, and will be available on the next release.
About the shortcut to add a new word to glossary, this is a little bit tricky.
In the first releases of toMOTko, there was only one glossary so I had a button to add a new word into the glossary directly on the Quiz page. However, now that the Glossary Manager supports more than just one glossary, I removed the "Add word" button from the Quiz page because I would need to ask the user into which glossary that he wants to put the new word. To do this, I would need to implement a dialog window containing a tree (glossary structure) so the user can specify the desired glossary. In my opinion, this would make the application unnecessarily larger. Also it's not really shorter than going to the Glossary Manager, choose a glossary and add a new word into it. In short, it's not really worth it.
That being said, it would be nice if a user could use toMOTko without using the mouse (or the pen), so I intend to implement a shortcut key to invoke the Glossary Manager and another to add a word into the selected glossary, and many others actually for most of the functionalities. As I mentioned in a previous message, it's on the todo-list but it's not my priority for now.
I'm going through JLPT4 and entering words as I go. Will make my glossary available when it's done.
Thanks. I'm looking forward to see your work.
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I just tried toMOTko 0.4 and the edit on the fly button is nice.
maybe I have missed something but it would be nice to have font size change button. As if you use only 1-2 kanji words it is fine, but it you use sentences or longer words it makes it harder to read, especially in portrait mode.
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maybe I have missed something but it would be nice to have font size change button. As if you use only 1-2 kanji words it is fine, but it you use sentences or longer words it makes it harder to read, especially in portrait mode.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=161644\")
It's on the to-do list. You can find the to-do list here:
[a href=\"http://tomotko.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tomotko/trunk/todo.txt?view=markup]http://tomotko.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/...txt?view=markup[/url]
In addition, Frederic mentioned a couple of posts ago that he is going to implement the choice of fonts feature.
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maybe I have missed something but it would be nice to have font size change button. As if you use only 1-2 kanji words it is fine, but it you use sentences or longer words it makes it harder to read, especially in portrait mode.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=161644\")
It's on the to-do list. You can find the to-do list here:
[a href=\"http://tomotko.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tomotko/trunk/todo.txt?view=markup]http://tomotko.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/...txt?view=markup[/url]
In addition, Frederic mentioned a couple of posts ago that he is going to implement the choice of fonts feature.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161656\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
this is great news!
thank you kurochka and frederic!
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Just to let you know that I have updated the JLPT glossaries today. I think they are now error-free.
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thank you this is really useful!
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Anyone built mnemosyne (http://mnemosyne-proj.sourceforge.net/index.php) for the Z?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=150661\")
Or [a href=\"http://repose.cx/anki/]anki[/url]?
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Anyone built mnemosyne (http://mnemosyne-proj.sourceforge.net/index.php) for the Z?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=150661\")
Or [a href=\"http://repose.cx/anki/]anki[/url]?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=162754\")
I have attempted both, but so far failed in either case. I think anki is doable once [a href=\"http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2468]python-pyqt4 compiles[/url]. mnemosyne seems to be very nice as a program but uses some insane compilation setup that does not lend itself to cross-compilation. The author is not willing to use anything else.
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For those who are interested, I have released version 0.5.0 of toMOTko.
The two most important features are the font selection in the Preferences dialog and limited copy/paste functionality. The latter only works for words. It's not possible to copy/cut/paste folders or glossaries yet. It should be done in the next release.
For Kurochka: the font selection feature should allow you to see special characters like French and Spanish accents if you have a unicode font installed on your system.
Feedback is welcome.
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I found a new FlashCard program today. I haven't tried it yet but it looks interesting.
http://jvlt.sourceforge.net (http://jvlt.sourceforge.net)
It's made in Java so it probably works on the Zaurus.
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I have attempted both, but so far failed in either case. I think anki is doable once python-pyqt4 compiles (http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2468). mnemosyne seems to be very nice as a program but uses some insane compilation setup that does not lend itself to cross-compilation. The author is not willing to use anything else.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163006\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
mnemosyne is a python program - what insane compilation does your version do? Mine just copies python scripts to the python directory.
I'll try setting up python on my Z again and see if I can get ti to work - something to do on the train
Stu
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I think I know why. The files are in UTF-8 with Signature (there is some sort of data/symbol at the beginning of the file). toMOTko does not like that. It can take UTF-8 *without* Signature.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I saw this post and realised that it could be the Unicode BOM (http://unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html).
koan
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For those who are interested, I have released version 0.5.0 of toMOTko.
The two most important features are the font selection in the Preferences dialog and limited copy/paste functionality. The latter only works for words. It's not possible to copy/cut/paste folders or glossaries yet. It should be done in the next release.
For Kurochka: the font selection feature should allow you to see special characters like French and Spanish accents if you have a unicode font installed on your system.
Feedback is welcome.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thank you, Frederic. I'll check it out and report. Font selection is the most very much appreciated. I also hope that "(un)select all entries" has made it into the new release.
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I'm looking forward to hear from you.
I've added two buttons in the Glossary Manager, one to select all the entries and another one to inverse the selection. To uncheck all the words, you check them all and inverse the selection.
Next release (0.6.0) will offer the following :
- Support other languages (Not just English and Japanese)
- Multilingual interface (French, English and maybe Spanish and Japanese). Other languages will be added if users are willing to contribute.
- Optimized data format (xml->binary) => smaller (instead of taking 4.6MB, my glossaries now take 2MB) and faster (instead of 70 secs, loading my glossaries now takes 12 secs)
- And maybe the completion of copy/cut/paste feature but it can probably wait till version 0.7.0.
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Thanks for your great work on toMOTko.
A feature I would like to see is, actually having a text field to write the kanji.
The handwritting recognition which comes with the japanese rom would recognise it; and tomotko would compare to the correct answer and give you the result.
It would give the possibility to train at writing kanji.
Thanks
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Hi Matthis,
Thank you for using toMOTko.
I have given some thought about your suggestion. I'm not very enthused by it.
Even though I like that we can input kanjis on the Zaurus, handwriting them on the screen (and it's pretty much why I bought a Zaurus in the first place), it's not something that I enjoy doing very much. It may be good to look up for a word in a dictionnary once in a while but I don't think I would like to use it to write lots of words. Of course, this is subjective.
I also think that the default pattern recognition input method is not the proper tool to learn writing kanjis as it's smart enough to recognize kanjis even when they are not written correctly. For example, try to write "right"(migi) and "left"(hidari). The stroke order for these two kanjis is particular but the Zaurus will not complain about it if you miss because it knows that most of the people (including Japanese) may write them wrong. I know, it's probably no big deal for most people but it's something I find odd for a tool like toMOTko that aims to assist the learning of a language.
If other people ask for it, I may implement it later though. Just don't hold your breath...
For now, I would recommend that you write the kanjis with a good old pencil and paper when using toMOTko. That's what I do every day and it feels a lot better that writing on the Z's screen.
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Hi
I made a simple flash card file for the Thai alphabet, it covers the 44 consonants. In Thai it is important to learn the class of a consonant so you can work out it's tone through a set of rules. When I first learnt Thai I used flash cards to go through the classes.
You can download the file here (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/thai-alphabet.xml)
Here is a screenshot (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Zaurus/thai-tomotko.png)
If you don't have a font with Thai glyphs, you can find one here (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Projects/thaizaurusfonts.html), personally I prefer "Loma"
When I edited the XML file I changed the target language to "th" but after importing into toMOTko I couldn't see my text; so I had to change it back to "ja" even though this is wrong.
@Frederic: Maybe toMOTko could read the language from the XML and change the GUI to show which language it is ? "Japanese" should then become "Thai" and "Furigana" could become "meta explanation" or something. Also, choosing a suitable font for the language is good for us people learning more than one language.
I might do some Thai phrases/expressions later.
thanks!
P.S. Any random person listening, if you have any Kansai-ben or Osaka-ben; I'm quite interested in Japanese dialect. I can extract words and explanations from EDICT but it's no substitute for good examples.
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Hi Koan,
Next release of toMOTko will support other languages. I hope to make it for the end of August or mid-September. I include some screenshots of the development version. You can see that you can specify a font for a particular language like you mentioned.
Screenshot 1 : From English to German (http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/MultilingualEng2Ger.png)
Screenshot 2 : List of study languages (http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/PreferencesStudyLanguages.png)
Screenshot 3 : Font overrides by language (http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/PreferencesFontOverrides.png)
Thanks for your Thai file. When I release version 0.6.0, I will modify it to adjust to the new format of toMOTko and put it on the website (if you don't mind, of course).
Fred
P.S.: We don't see it in the screenshot but Thai language is also supported.
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Thanks for your Thai file. When I release version 0.6.0, I will modify it to adjust to the new format of toMOTko and put it on the website (if you don't mind, of course).
Hi Frederic,
Nice to see the screenshots of the new version. It's looking good.
I don't mind you updating my file. I will probably update it myself too.
Very glad to see Thai is supported in a language app
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Hi Frederic,
Nice to see the screenshots of the new version. It's looking good.
I don't mind you updating my file. I will probably update it myself too.
Very glad to see Thai is supported in a language app :)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165742\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Hi Koan,
I tried to update your glossary file today but there is something I don't understand.
For each word, you declare 4 elements of data. Let's take the first one as an example :
1) gor gai
2) n (or something that looks like an 'n')
3) n ln (or something that looks like so)
4) chicken, middle class
What are these data? I guess that 4 is the English meaning. But for the rest, I'm not sure. The problem I have is : I don't know where to put this info in the new format.
In the new format (that is very similar to the previous one), I have these fields :
a) English word
b) Thai word
c) Thai pronunciation (or alternate format)
d) Comments/Examples (that can be expressed in English and in Thai)
So I feel that :
4) should go with a).
2) should go with b)
1) should go with c)
3) should go with d)
Am I right?
Or maybe 2) and 3) should be combined together into the same field b) and the comment field d) should be left empty?
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For each word, you declare 4 elements of data. Let's take the first one as an example :
1) gor gai
2) n (or something that looks like an 'n')
3) n ln (or something that looks like so)
4) chicken, middle class
What are these data? I guess that 4 is the English meaning. But for the rest, I'm not sure. The problem I have is : I don't know where to put this info in the new format.
I was flexible in the use of the available fields
This is a flash card set to help learn the Thai "alphabet" so it's not a normal flash card set with word -> word.
2. is the letter (there are only consonants in this file, I'm still trying to think of a sensible way to do vowels - it's not obvious). This letter is a little bit like a "g"
1. is a "romaji" version of "g is for gai" like "c is for chicken"; In English we make up any word for "A is for xxxxx" but Thai people learn specific objects relating to specific letters.
3. is the same as 1. but spelt in Thai.
4. are notes, gai = chicken, the consonant is middle class.
In the new format (that is very similar to the previous one), I have these fields :
a) English word
Thai word
c) Thai pronunciation (or alternate format)
d) Comments/Examples (that can be expressed in English and in Thai)
I see. It's not straightforward to find the best way to fit this to learning the Thai alphabet. Actually, I should add pronunciation: in addition to 1, Thai consonants change sound depending on if they are at the start of a word or the end.
The other thing is that there isn't a 1-1 mapping between 26 consonants of Roman and 44 consonants of Thai.
So I feel that :
4) should go with a).
2) should go with
1) should go with c)
3) should go with d)
Am I right?
Or maybe 2) and 3) should be combined together into the same field and the comment field d) should be left empty?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166294\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Um, I guess it should be
1.) a) English word
2.) Thai word
3.) c) Thai pronunciation (or alternate format)
4.) d) Comments/Examples (that can be expressed in English and in Thai)
Perhaps I should have made
1. chicken (g/k)
2. ก (ก ไก่)
3. gor (gor gai)
4. middle class
The g/k is the sound as an initial/final consonant.
Then for the quiz, the best order of revealing would be 2, 3, 1, 4.
Having ก (ก ไก่) combined in one item is not really ideal though because you want to learn that ก is related to ไก่...
Does it make sense ? I'm not sure this helps you define your new format. Any other questions, please ask!
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I think it makes sense. Unless an unsuspecting problem occurs, I should release version 0.6.0 of toMOTko this week-end. I will also publish your glossary according to your explanations.
Thanks.
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All these programs are GUI oriented. Does anybody of you know of a curses based flash program
(using the Leitner-methodology) ?
Detlef
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I will also publish your glossary according to your explanations.
OK, thanks. I will install the new version and check it when it is available.
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All these programs are GUI oriented. Does anybody of you know of a curses based flash program
(using the Leitner-methodology) ?
Detlef
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=166348\")
The only one I know is [a href=\"http://www.godisch.de/debian/latrine/]latrine[/url].
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toMOTko 0.6.0 has been released. Take a look at the release note (https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=181531&release_id=532920) before installing.
Things I plan to do in the next release are :
- Finish implementing cut, copy and paste.
- Add key accelerators.
- Save/restore the state of the application (expanded tree nodes, quiz, etc.).
- Improved appearance.
- Optimize loading/saving data and tree updating.
- Begin porting to Windows/Linux.
- Etc.
Koan: I will let you update your vocabulary file yourself. After installing the latest version, you can export your glossary and then, edit it (replace 'ja' by 'th') and relocate the data in the appropriate fields (even though the format is not perfect for such a case).
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@Frederic
I installed the latest toMOTko, thanks for your hard work.
I must admit the filter buttons at the top confused me; I didn't realise that I had imported my file so I imported a few times before I realised that I had to add the language and then set the filter to show it.
So I went to edit my tree.xml but as the imported file is number.xml it was difficult to know which files to remove.
When I switch the filter from English to Thai to Thai to English the Alt/Phon field is empty. I think this must be a bug ? It's the same for other languages.
I think the filter buttons should not be required: if you tap a English to Japanese glossary the right listview should update to English to Japanese. It might be good if there is a button to switch direction though.
A glossary folder can have a description but a glossary file doesn't. Can I suggest adding a description field to each glossary ?
Also, when I export a glossary, it retains the id. If I redistribute the glossary, as for example my Thai glossary, what id should I set ?
thanks
koan
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I must admit the filter buttons at the top confused me; I didn't realise that I had imported my file so I imported a few times before I realised that I had to add the language and then set the filter to show it.
You're right, it can be confusing (especially the first time). I plan to improve that but I wanted to make an early release. In the future, when importing a glossary, I will probably warn the user that the imported glossary contains words in more than 2 languages and/or when the languages are not among the selected Languages of Interest (in the Language Preferences).
This way, the user will be able to select the languages of the data he wants. And the Languages of Interest should be set automatically. About the Language Selectors (comboboxes at the top) I could set them automatically when the imported glossary is in 2 languages only but if it contains more than 2 languages, it's ambiguous and I better not touch it. I could set the Filter off though to make sure that we see the imported glossary in the TreeView.
Imagine for example that a medical glossary file has been translated in English, French, Spanish, and Italian and German, the user should be able to import only English, French and Spanish and omit Italian and German. Doing so should automatically select English, French and Spanish in the Languages of Interest Preferences if they were not already selected and the Filter should be turned Off.
Turning the Filter Off can have a confusing/surprising effect some times as you may not see the words in the right pane if the Language Selector is not properly set. This is a "feature" though as it allows a user to translate a glossary in a third or fourth language as described in the Online Help of the Glossary Manager.
So I went to edit my tree.xml but as the imported file is number.xml it was difficult to know which files to remove.
I understand, especially now that the glossary files are encoded in binary. Of course, this file should not normally be edited :-) You could have removed all the imported glossaries using red cross button in toMOTko's GUI and import it again.
When I switch the filter from English to Thai to Thai to English the Alt/Phon field is empty. I think this must be a bug ? It's the same for other languages.
I'm aware of this. Actually, it's not a bug but rather a choice I made. As you know, the screen's real estate of the Zaurus is quite limited so I chose to display only an Alt field for the Target Language. If I had more space, I would have an Alt field for both Source and Target Language. Practically, we don't need so much an Alt field for the Source Language as this language is usually your mother tongue or a language you're very proficient with. I preferred to spend the space on the Comments field. So the language of study should always be set in the right Language Selector in order to see the Alt field.
I think the filter buttons should not be required: if you tap a English to Japanese glossary the right listview should update to English to Japanese. It might be good if there is a button to switch direction though.
Your idea is good but doesn't work for a Glossary containing translations in more than 2 languages like the previous use case I mentioned before.
The Language Selectors (as I call them) and Filter are very convenient when you're learning more than one language. If you're just learning Japanese, for example, you should leave the Language Selectors to English, Japanese and Filter On, and never touch them again.
If you're learning more than one language, the Filter is very convenient as the TreeView can become quite loaded. If you take a look at my screenshots, you will see.
The Language Selectors are not intended to be used as directional selector but they can be used as such if you don't care about the Alt field. I admit it can be confusing to get used to it. The proper way to set the direction of study is by checking Revealing Orders options in the Quiz Preferences.
A glossary folder can have a description but a glossary file doesn't. Can I suggest adding a description field to each glossary ?
I will think about it. Once again, it's a trade-off I made. The space is limited and I thought it was not essential to have a description for a glossary. Maybe I should add a button besides the title which would invoke a dialog containing Description, Author, Date and other metadata. There is enough room to fit a TextField just over the list of words but I'm not sure if it will be pretty, especially in Portrait mode.
Also, when I export a glossary, it retains the id. If I redistribute the glossary, as for example my Thai glossary, what id should I set ?
It doesn't matter, the number will be ignored when importing the glossary. Instead, a new number will be generated in function of the state of the destination Glossary Manager. You can set it to "1".
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I will think about ways to improve the usability of the application.
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@Frederic
I updated my glossary - lots of editing! I changed the layout as we had talked about.
One behaviour I think is a bug: if I start toMOTko and select English Japanese my Thai glossary shows up in the treeview and if I select it then the glossary view says "English" at the head of the first column and "Japanese" at the head of the second column, even though it is showing my Thai words.
thanks
koan
P.S. File and new screenshot at my Thai on Zaurus page - see my .sig
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One behaviour I think is a bug: if I start toMOTko and select English Japanese my Thai glossary shows up in the treeview and if I select it then the glossary view says "English" at the head of the first column and "Japanese" at the head of the second column, even though it is showing my Thai words.
I imported your glossary. Thanks for the update. I will publish it on toMOTko's website shortly.
When you say that you see you the Thai words, I think you mean that you see your words, but only the English parts, in the English column, and you see a Japanese column that is empty, right?
If so, this is not a bug but a feature... Even though it's not an obvious one.
First, you mention that when you start toMOTko, you see your vocabulary while English/Japanese are selected. I have a few questions to ask : How do you start toMOTko? Do you really launch it from scratch or do you unsuspend the Zaurus and select the application (that is already opened)? I asked that because in my case, when I start toMOTko, the filter is On (in other words, the "Show all glossaries and terms" is unchecked). Could you tell me if the Filter is On when you start toMOTko?
If the filter is Off, your glossary should be visible even though English/Japanese are selected. You should then turn the filter On and the Thai glossary should disappear from the TreeView. I think that most of time (except maybe when you import new glossaries or translate existing ones), you should always turn the Filter On (i.e. "Show all glossaries and terms" should be unchecked). When the filter is On, you will need to set the Language Selectors to English/Thai to see your glossary. At the moment, the state of the Filter is not saved when we quit toMOTko. It's on the todo list.
Second, I explain why it's a feature and not a bug... As mentioned in my previous message (and in the Online Help), this feature exists in the case you would like to translate a glossary in another language. For example, if I have a animal glossary in English, Japanese and I want to translate it in Spanish, I will turn off the filter and select English, Spanish. In the term list (right pane), I will see the animals in the English column but the Spanish column will be empty. Then, I can select each word and edit it (pencil button). What happens in such a case is that I edit the "en" and "es" <translation> item of the terms.
So in the end, if I may express me in XML, you get something like that :
dog
perro
inu
This is a dog. Eso es un perro
This is a dog. Kore ha inu desu.
...
So you can learn the same words in different languages. Once a glossary have been translated (partially or completely), you can turn the filter On again.
If you select English/Japanese or English/Spanish or Japanese/Spanish, you will see the same glossary but the data will be displayed in the appropriate language.
This way, it's possible to distribute a glossary in several languages in only one file. That's something I intend to do to write a glossary of animals in English, French, Spanish and Japanese. I could also write a glossary about fruits, vegetables, verbs, etc. People will be able to import only the languages they want. For now though, all the languages are imported.
With this feature, you don't need to edit the XML file to translate an existing glossary, you can use the built-in editing facility of toMOTko.
Finally, I think that if I would put "Non available" or "Not defined" in red, instead of empty entries in the term list that could be easier to understand. What do you think?
Thanks for your feedback. Sorry for the long posts.
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When you say that you see you the Thai words, I think you mean that you see your words, but only the English parts, in the English column, and you see a Japanese column that is empty, right?
No, that's not quite right.- I run toMOTko by tapping the icon, it is not running in the background.
- The filter shown is the English-Thai, only Thai glossaries show
- I change the filter to English-Japanese, all glossaries show (including Thai)
- Tap on Thai glossary - the glossary view shows English-Thai but the column heading for Thai says Japanese. Thai words are show, rendered with Japanese font.
Could you tell me if the Filter is On when you start toMOTko?
Do you mean the filter is set to a language and not blank ?
Yes, as explained it is English-Thai.
Finally, I think that if I would put "Non available" or "Not defined" in red, instead of empty entries in the term list that could be easier to understand. What do you think?
Well, yes, but I'm not seeing empty entries.
I think it's a good idea to support glossaries that have more than 1 language as some of us are studying more than 1 language, but I think it's problematic for toMOTko's design as toMOTko is a flash card program not a dictionary. I think features like adding images might be more important.
thanks
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Do you mean the filter is set to a language and not blank ?
Yes, as explained it is English-Thai.
When I talk about the filter, I mean the "Show all glossaries and terms" item in the Actions menu.
Filter is On if Show all glossaries and terms is unchecked.
Filter is Off if Show all glossaries and terms is checked.
- I run toMOTko by tapping the icon, it is not running in the background.
- The filter shown is the English-Thai, only Thai glossaries show
- I change the filter to English-Japanese, all glossaries show (including Thai)
- Tap on Thai glossary - the glossary view shows English-Thai but the column heading for Thai says Japanese. Thai words are show, rendered with Japanese font.
Here are some screenshots of what happens when I perform these steps :
(SC1) Before first step : toMOTko is not started yet.
[img]http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/koan1.1.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
(SC2) After first step : toMOTko has just started.
[img]http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/koan1.2.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
(SC3) After changing to Eng/Jap. I don't see your glossary. It should appear after the Politics glossary.
[img]http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/koan1.3.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
(SC4) To see your glossary, I turn off the filter. I click the glossary and I get this :
[img]http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/koan1.4.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
In SC4, the result is as expected (as mentioned in previous posts).
So I'm unable to reproduce the problem. Could you send me a screenshot of the Z just after the last step and also a zip/tar file of your /home/zaurus/.toMOTko directory. Maybe it could be useful to reproduce the bug.
I think it's a good idea to support glossaries that have more than 1 language as some of us are studying more than 1 language, but I think it's problematic for toMOTko's design as toMOTko is a flash card program not a dictionary. I think features like adding images might be more important.
The idea to add images (and why not, sounds) is good. Thanks! It's not my priority but I may implement it eventually.
About the design of toMOTko, I agree it's not perfect but, hopefully, it can be improved.
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@Frederic
I discovered the "bug": I had kept an old version of my glossary file (with the original en and ja markup). Naturally, toMOTko picked it up and renders as English - Japanese. So there is no problem. Except with me!
Nice screenshots, I'm glad you have installed my file!
thanks
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I discovered the "bug": I had kept an old version of my glossary file (with the original en and ja markup). Naturally, toMOTko picked it up and renders as English - Japanese. So there is no problem. Except with me!
That's a good news. Thanks for telling me.
I put your glossary on toMOTko's website in the Glossaries page.
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Thanks, Frederic, for the new version.
A quick question: the "Word/Expr." box seems to be cut off at the bottom (it is smaller than the "Alt./Phon" box. I have played with the settings but it is still cut off (and the letters/characters in that box are cut off at the bottom as well). I'd post a screenshot but I forgot the key combination and the folder where screenshots go.
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Thanks, Frederic, for the new version.
A quick question: the "Word/Expr." box seems to be cut off at the bottom (it is smaller than the "Alt./Phon" box. I have played with the settings but it is still cut off (and the letters/characters in that box are cut off at the bottom as well). I'd post a screenshot but I forgot the key combination and the folder where screenshots go.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=166821\")
Long time no hear from you, Kurochka.
It should not be unless I misunderstand you... Look at the [a href=\"http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=181531]screenshots[/url] on the website. Does the Word/Expr field look cut off? Does it look the same on your side? Try setting different fonts in the Preferences. If it doesn't work, try restarting the application. In most cases, it should not be needed but It could help. I had such a bug once but I thought it was fixed.
To take a screenshot : Fn + Shift + C. The image file should be in Documents/Screen_Files on your SD card (most probably).
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I use your program all the time.
Here is the screenshot. http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001251220182324392 (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001251220182324392)
I use efont (http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/efont24_0.06_arm.ipk) (because it has all the Unicode ranges I need in a nice size) for the field portion, and it does this.
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I use your program all the time.
I'm glad to hear that. I hope you like the multilingual support.
Here is the screenshot. http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001251220182324392 (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001251220182324392)
I use efont (http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/efont24_0.06_arm.ipk) (because it has all the Unicode ranges I need in a nice size) for the field portion, and it does this.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm able to reproduce the problem. It happens when using a too large font for the Label Fonts. I will try to find a fix in the week-end. Meanwhile, I recommend using a smaller font. I use unifont medium and the result looks ok. Maybe not as nice as efont though. I really like the style of japanese rendering in efont. Very cute. I still prefer lcfont for toMOTko because I find it easier to read.
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@kurocha
I think I fixed the bug. It was a tough one. I spent 7 hours on it. I don't quite understand the problem actually but I have found a workaround that is not perfect, but hopefully, good enough. At least, with efont, the layout is fine. It will be available in the next release.
Thanks for reporting the problem.
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All these programs are GUI oriented. Does anybody of you know of a curses based flash program
(using the Leitner-methodology) ?
Detlef
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166348\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
anki has an emacs front end, but I haven't tried it yet
I'm currently desiging a leitner app as a local web server using a browser (curses if you like) as the interface, primarily for heisig, but should be flexible enough for general use
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All these programs are GUI oriented. Does anybody of you know of a curses based flash program
(using the Leitner-methodology) ?
Detlef
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=166348\")
The only one I know is [a href=\"http://www.godisch.de/debian/latrine/]latrine[/url].
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
nice, but is the leitner? doesn't look like it from just a quick look at the man page...
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All these programs are GUI oriented. Does anybody of you know of a curses based flash program
(using the Leitner-methodology) ?
Detlef
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=166348\")
The only one I know is [a href=\"http://www.godisch.de/debian/latrine/]latrine[/url].
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
nice, but is the leitner? doesn't look like it from just a quick look at the man page...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166973\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually, I've never used it more than 5 minutes so I don't know. The man page mentions a continuously improved algorithm for word selection. I think you should give it a try. It was easy to use/configure if I remember well.
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@kurocha
I think I fixed the bug. It was a tough one. I spent 7 hours on it. I don't quite understand the problem actually but I have found a workaround that is not perfect, but hopefully, good enough. At least, with efont, the layout is fine. It will be available in the next release.
Thanks for reporting the problem.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166958\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thank you for your hard work!
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I released version 0.7.0 of toMOTko. It's a little bit earlier than I thought but I wanted to make some fixes available for some annoying bugs.
Here is the change log :
- Fixed duplicate folder id bug.
- Improved layout update for QuizFrame when changing font.
- Added Language Selection dialog box for import/export.
- Shortened some strings in Spanish to make them fit in Portrait mode.
- Save the state of expanded/collapsed tree nodes in Glossary Manager.
- Display Undefined string in gray when a glossary contains no word in
a language shown in the list of terms in the Glossary Manager.
- Fixed lost selection bug when switching language or changing the state
of the filter.
@kurochka
Tell me if you can use efont properly with no cut-off fields in the Quiz.
I'm going to take 3 weeks off going back to my home country. Don't worry if you don't hear from me for a while.
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Thanks, once again.
Yes, the new version does not have a problem with efont. If I am not mistaken the height of the windows has become static (does not depend on the size of the font) to keep efont happy. This have led to smaller examples window in the laptop/horizontal orientation. I can live with that, I will just scroll more if the example is large. Also note that with large font sizes the buttons are being eaten by bottom task bar. All this is not important. The hotkeys for yes and no would fix it
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anki has an emacs front end, but I haven't tried it yet
Will take a look. Thx for the hint.
I'm currently desiging a leitner app as a local web server using a browser (curses if you like) as the interface, primarily for heisig, but should be flexible enough for general use
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166972\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Nice news! My main concern is about speed. I have yet to find a program as fast as real index cards, esp. if it comes to going over vocabulary you more or less know.
That's why I'm looking into curses instead of a "nice" GUI. Speed! Don't know if a browser based solution will cut it there.
Detlef
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@Frederic
Hi, I have some suggestions for 0.8.0.
I can't organise my glossaries. I want to move them around subfolders.
I guess this is what you will do when you implement cut and paste ?
I also would like to be able to sort glossaries and folders.
When I don't select "Show all glossaries" and specify "Language1" > "Language2" I think I should still see all the folders, even if they are not Language1 or Language2.
I think each glossary should have some notes to explain who made it, where it comes from etc. If you change the glossary title label to "Title" then there would be room for an (i) icon which could be tapped for more information.
When you edit an entry, it would be nice if there was a way to navigate forwards and backwards to other entries.
The menu "Edition" should be "Edit", in prefs "Digraphes" should be "Digraphs" for the English UI.
thanks
koan
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Is it just me or does the edit function does not save modifications? Maybe this is a permissions problem but it worked with the previous version.
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Is it just me or does the edit function does not save modifications? Maybe this is a permissions problem but it worked with the previous version.
Just to clarify, the only affected field (the one that does not save changes) is the comment field. The text fields work fine. This is weird.
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Is it just me or does the edit function does not save modifications? Maybe this is a permissions problem but it worked with the previous version.
I'm back to Japan.
Thanks for reporting this bug. I can reproduce it so I will fix it soon. This occurs only with the Edit button of the Quiz. The Edit button in the Glossary Manager works fine on my side.
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Hi, I would like to make another request, though I'm not sure everyone will like it..
When importing files, Tomotko searches automatically for importable files... and this takes about 8 minutes on my sl-c3200. So I'd rather save time and search/select it myself if possible.
What do you think?
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I can't organise my glossaries. I want to move them around subfolders.
I guess this is what you will do when you implement cut and paste ?
Exactly. The Cut & Paste feature should take care of this. In the present version, Cut doesn't work but Copy & Paste work for terms. So if you can't wait, you can reorganize your words by recreating the folders (that's easy to do), copy and paste the terms in the newly organized folders. Once you're done, you can then delete the obsolete glossaries with the red X button.
I also would like to be able to sort glossaries and folders.
I've discussed this issue previously in this thread with Kurochka, if I remember well. I don't think this feature is essential. The folders and glossaries are already sorted alphabetically. I could add 2 buttons (arrow up, arrow down) to translate a tree item from one position up or down but this would burden the Glossary Manager's interface too much, IMHO. Because of that, I suggest you to prefix the folders and glossaries titles that you want to be sorted in a specific way with numbers like 01, 02, 03.
When I don't select "Show all glossaries" and specify "Language1" > "Language2" I think I should still see all the folders, even if they are not Language1 or Language2.
To see a folder when "Show all glossaries" is disabled, the folder must contain a glossary with some terms in the language specified in "Language1 > Language2". If you think about it, it makes sense. What's the need to show an empty (or irrelevant) folder? Most of the time, you don't want to see it. When you do want to see such a folder, that's where the "Show all glossaries" comes handy so you can insert words in it. I think that this behavior is what most people want, like 98% of the time. I may add a preferences setting to change this default behavior in the future but I'm not convinced that it's a good idea.
I think each glossary should have some notes to explain who made it, where it comes from etc. If you change the glossary title label to "Title" then there would be room for an (i) icon which could be tapped for more information.
This is on the todo list.
When you edit an entry, it would be nice if there was a way to navigate forwards and backwards to other entries.
I will put it on the todo list and consider it later.
The menu "Edition" should be "Edit", in prefs "Digraphes" should be "Digraphs" for the English UI.
I will update the strings shortly. Thanks.
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Hi, I would like to make another request, though I'm not sure everyone will like it..
When importing files, Tomotko searches automatically for importable files... and this takes about 8 minutes on my sl-c3200. So I'd rather save time and search/select it myself if possible.
What do you think?
Wow, that's incredibly long! I was not aware of this. This is probably caused by the Qtopia's default FileManager class that I'm currently using. I've read somewhere that there is another implementation of FileManager (provided by Sharp's API?) that could do a better job and ask for a specific location. I will look further on this.
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Hi, I would like to make another request, though I'm not sure everyone will like it..
When importing files, Tomotko searches automatically for importable files... and this takes about 8 minutes on my sl-c3200. So I'd rather save time and search/select it myself if possible.
What do you think?
Wow, that's incredibly long! I was not aware of this. This is probably caused by the Qtopia's default FileManager class that I'm currently using. I've read somewhere that there is another implementation of FileManager (provided by Sharp's API?) that could do a better job and ask for a specific location. I will look further on this.
I haven't encountered this problem on my 3100. It's snappy here.
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I think it depends on the size of your storage devices. On my SL-C1000, I'm using the built-in 64 MB memory and a 1 GB SD card so it's fast enough. According to what I read on the Zaurus's FAQ, the SL-C3100 has built-in memory of 128 MB with no hard disk so the speed is probably comparable. The SL-C3200 has a 6 GB hard disk (or so I think) so that would explain the delay as Qtopia's FileManager object looks for all files with an extension ending by .xml under user's home directory. If you have a lot of files, it may takes some time to scan all of them.
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I uploaded 3 new glossaries for Thai:
- Numbers
- Time
- Everyday phrases
They are not exhaustive but I think they are comprehensive.
Please see the "Thai on Zaurus" link in my sig.
thanks!
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Thanks Koan, I will take a look to your new glossaries during the week and add them to toMOTko's website.
@Matthis
I borrowed zfiledialog code from ZBEDic application and integrated it into toMOTko's import/export feature. This will probably solve the problem you mentioned before. Similarly, keyboard shortcuts will also be inspired from code found in ZBEDic. I intend to make a release as soon as this is implemented.
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Thank you very much for making your great program better and better all the time!
Best regards,
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toMOTko 0.8.0 (https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531) has been released.
It contains bug fixes and minor improvements.
Here is the change log :
- Added missing digraphs.
- Fixed comment update bug in the quiz.
- Fixed multiple terms deletion.
- Improved FileDialog for import/export feature.
- Improved menus' look with icons.
- Added keyboard accelerators.
- Show word count in congratulation message.
Feedback is welcome.
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Thank you very much! I will try it and report back.
EDIT: I tried it and it works like a charm! File selections speeds the process up greatly. Thank you!
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Thank you very much! I will try it and report back.
EDIT: I tried it and it works like a charm! File selections speeds the process up greatly. Thank you!
Glad to hear that! You're welcome.
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I have tried it and love it. Awesome. This is a major new release! Hotkeys are great.
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I have tried it and love it. Awesome. This is a major new release! Hotkeys are great.
I know it's been a while you asked for this feature. I'm glad you like it. Credit must be given to ZBEDic's authors as I borrowed most of the code for the implementation of shortcuts and the new FileDialog.
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Here is one quirk that I have noticed. It seems you have added the scrollbar to the Examples/Comments window. It only appears when the text is too large for the window. When the scrollbar appears it takes space "eating"/covering one or two characters of text on the right.
Edit: Strange, after I open the card again, it reflows the text, and the problem disappears.
A suggestion: Now that we have hotkeys, the buttons at the bottom are optional. Would it be possible to have them disappear (in the preferences, or as a hotkey) or have a switch between big/small buttons leaving more space for comments/examples window? It would also be great if you could maximize the comments window similar to how Zdict and Zten (variant) do it with their windows.
I realize that this probably requires significant coding.
Zten/Ztenv is open source. Even Zdict should be open source (with some encryption module). Maybe their code could be useful.
http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/ (http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/)
http://cvs.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs....kages-ja/ztenv/ (http://cvs.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/openzaurus-ja/bbfile/packages-ja/ztenv/)
http://www.gohome.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/zten/ (http://www.gohome.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/zten/)
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Here is one quirk that I have noticed. It seems you have added the scrollbar to the Examples/Comments window. It only appears when the text is too large for the window. When the scrollbar appears it takes space "eating"/covering one or two characters of text on the right.
Edit: Strange, after I open the card again, it reflows the text, and the problem disappears.
This problem has been there since the very first version of toMOTko. It doesn't happen very often fortunately. And when it does, it only does it once. I think it's a bug in Qt API but I'm not sure. When it happens, it seems that the scrollbar needs about 3 seconds to paint itself, after the text field has been rendered. Because of that, the text is laid out as if there was no scrollbar. I've tried many things to fix the problem but hasn't found a solution yet. I have some other ideas to try though. It was not my priority but I could take another look at it.
A suggestion: Now that we have hotkeys, the buttons at the bottom are optional. Would it be possible to have them disappear (in the preferences, or as a hotkey) or have a switch between big/small buttons leaving more space for comments/examples window? It would also be great if you could maximize the comments window similar to how Zdict and Zten (variant) do it with their windows.
I realize that this probably requires significant coding.
Zten/Ztenv is open source. Even Zdict should be open source (with some encryption module). Maybe their code could be useful.
http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/ (http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/)
http://cvs.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs....kages-ja/ztenv/ (http://cvs.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/openzaurus-ja/bbfile/packages-ja/ztenv/)
http://www.gohome.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/zten/ (http://www.gohome.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/zten/)
I think a preference option to show/hide the buttons would be easy to do. About the comments window maximizing feature, I will have to check zdict as I don't know what you're talking about. The version of zten I'm using doesn't have such a feature.
For the next release, here is what I plan to do :
- Compress data files (zlib); (already done)
- Metadata for glossaries and folders;
- Separate digraphs definition into a text file;
- Save xml data files in binary;
- Finish Copy/Cut/Paste (this one is overdue);
- Bug fixes
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1. Huh, if the bug has been there all along, and I have just noticed it (and it corrected itself), then it's not a priority. Nobody else complained.
2. Here is what I mean. In zten variant (or zdict), when you perform search, you see a search results window on the left and the entry window on the right. If you press the right arrow key (on your joystick), then the entry window maximizes almost fullscreen to take over the space from the results window (the left button does the same but for the search results window). If you press the OK button it also switches the views. In zdict there is an icon for the same function (the OK key also works but not as well as in ztenv).
This option could make the examples window even more useful. Currently, if there is lots of text in there it's hard to scroll up and down and we can only see two or three lines of text at a time. With that option we could maximize the window (it would take over the Entry Word and Translation Word windows to examine the examples/comments window by using the joystick and then return back to the regular view.
By the way, what is the limit for the examples/comments field? I presume there must be some sort of limit, right?
Hm. I have not asked for images and sounds thinking that it would complicate the program but I see that Frederic is actually thinking about it:
The idea to add images (and why not, sounds) is good. Thanks! It's not my priority but I may implement it eventually.
Maybe do that when implementing support for images/sounds as packaging will be needed.
This will open some new opportunities. For me, I will be able to insert stroke order charts in the example window (that's when we will need an option to maximize the example/comment window. However, it would complicate the simple file format for the study lists (I presume xml would include links and images/sounds would be kept in a container file separately.
Once's this is all done there will be nothing else left but to add a search functionality to make it a dictionary in itself
Here are some ideas from my brainstorming:
1. the tomotko could keep track of the progress (number of errors for each word) for each session;
2. based on this progress report, the user could have tomotko unselect all the words with 0 (or 1, 2 ... set by the user) errors, and run the test again only with cards that have generated 1 (or 2, 3, ...) errors. Alternatively, the tomotko could automatically create a new study lists containing words with 1 (or 2, 3, 4...) errors.
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I'm going through JLPT4 and entering words as I go. Will make my glossary available when it's done.
Hi, koan. Have you had a chance to compile a JLPT4 study list? We have not forgotten
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I'm going through JLPT4 and entering words as I go. Will make my glossary available when it's done.
Hi, koan. Have you had a chance to compile a JLPT4 study list? We have not forgotten
Maybe you don't know but there are already some glossaries available containing the words of the JLPT on toMOTko's website in the Glossaries section.
Also, thanks again for the clarifications and suggestions. This motivates me to keep working on the application and improve it.
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Here is what I mean. In zten variant (or zdict), when you perform search, you see a search results window on the left and the entry window on the right. If you press the right arrow key (on your joystick), then the entry window maximizes almost fullscreen to take over the space from the results window (the left button does the same but for the search results window). If you press the OK button it also switches the views. In zdict there is an icon for the same function (the OK key also works but not as well as in ztenv).
This option could make the examples window even more useful. Currently, if there is lots of text in there it's hard to scroll up and down and we can only see two or three lines of text at a time. With that option we could maximize the window (it would take over the Entry Word and Translation Word windows to examine the examples/comments window by using the joystick and then return back to the regular view.
Got it. I put it on the to-do. I will try to implement something similar.
EDIT: I implemented it today [Sunday]. Indeed, it was a good idea. I really like it. I also added a preference option option to hide the buttons in the quiz, even though it's not that much useful now that the comment field can be maximized.
By the way, what is the limit for the examples/comments field? I presume there must be some sort of limit, right?
Yes, there is a limit. If you put too much text, an infinite loop will occur. The last time I checked that however, the field capacity was large enough that I didn't care so much about it. This too, is on the to-do for quite a while but it's low priority.
Hm. I have not asked for images and sounds thinking that it would complicate the program but I see that Frederic is actually thinking about it:
The idea to add images (and why not, sounds) is good. Thanks! It's not my priority but I may implement it eventually.
Maybe do that when implementing support for images/sounds as packaging will be needed.
This will open some new opportunities. For me, I will be able to insert stroke order charts in the example window (that's when we will need an option to maximize the example/comment window. However, it would complicate the simple file format for the study lists (I presume xml would include links and images/sounds would be kept in a container file separately.
Most probably that when you will export a glossary with references to external resources (like images and sounds), the result file will be an archive containing the xml glossary file (with links to resources) and referred resources. This way, someone importing the glossary will also be able to import the referred resources. That's also because of this that I have recently introduced zlib library. With zlib, I'm able to compress the data files and I think I should also be able to package a group of files into an archive.
So far, using zlib to compress the data is worth it. To give you an idea : before zlib, launching toMOTko was taking 16 seconds and the data were taking 2.6 MB. After using zlib, it takes 12 seconds to start toMOTko and 1.0 MB for data.
Once's this is all done there will be nothing else left but to add a search functionality to make it a dictionary in itself
1. the tomotko could keep track of the progress (number of errors for each word) for each session;
2. based on this progress report, the user could have tomotko unselect all the words with 0 (or 1, 2 ... set by the user) errors, and run the test again only with cards that have generated 1 (or 2, 3, ...) errors. Alternatively, the tomotko could automatically create a new study lists containing words with 1 (or 2, 3, 4...) errors.
These features are on the to-do as well.
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Hi, koan. Have you had a chance to compile a JLPT4 study list? We have not forgotten
Damn! I've been side tracked by a lot of other stuff: I realised that vocabulary was my priority not kanji.
As Frederic says, there are JLPT lists for toMOTko, but IMHO not very specific - just big lists. I have the Unicom level 4 preparatory book and I've been noting all the kanji that are "more than very basic". Therefore my list is not very specific either.
By the way, adding stroke order diagrams sounds very specific to learning Kanji. Sure other languages have stroke order but most other languages don't have several thousand characters.
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I implemented it today [Sunday]. Indeed, it was a good idea. I really like it. I also added a preference option option to hide the buttons in the quiz, even though it's not that much useful now that the comment field can be maximized.
Once's this is all done there will be nothing else left but to add a search functionality to make it a dictionary in itself
1. the tomotko could keep track of the progress (number of errors for each word) for each session;
2. based on this progress report, the user could have tomotko unselect all the words with 0 (or 1, 2 ... set by the user) errors, and run the test again only with cards that have generated 1 (or 2, 3, ...) errors. Alternatively, the tomotko could automatically create a new study lists containing words with 1 (or 2, 3, 4...) errors.
These features are on the to-do as well.
You are da man!
I am attaching study lists for the first three lessons of Nihongo Shoho (Basic Course in Japanese) textbook. They contain Japanese words and English translations (plus Spanish translation in the comment section). There are 34 lessons. If I have time I will make them all some time.
The info is coming from two websites:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/M...bio/ns01jis.htm (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Miyuki_Eusebio/ns01jis.htm)
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/tango.pl?mo=0...fm=01&to=21 (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/tango.pl?mo=0&bk=jli1&fm=01&to=21)
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I am attaching study lists for the first three lessons of Nihongo Shoho (Basic Course in Japanese) textbook. They contain Japanese words and English translations (plus Spanish translation in the comment section). There are 34 lessons. If I have time I will make them all some time.
The info is coming from two websites:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/M...bio/ns01jis.htm (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Miyuki_Eusebio/ns01jis.htm)
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/tango.pl?mo=0...fm=01&to=21 (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/tango.pl?mo=0&bk=jli1&fm=01&to=21)
Thanks again Kurochka.
I think it would be "cleaner" to move the comments in Spanish translations in the XML format. This way, it would allow 2 things :
1) People who don't care about Spanish translations will have the choice to skip this data when importing the glossary file. More than that, it allows users to pick either English and Japanese or English and Spanish or Japanese and Spanish or all of them.
2) Prevent a display problem related to font. You may have not noticed but depending of your font preferences in toMOTko the problem occurs. What happens is that the application tries to pick the best font according to the selected languages (in this case : English and Japanese). The application has no way of knowing that the comments are written in Spanish. Because of that, the chosen font may be good to display Japanese and English but not Spanish. In my case, the Spanish accents are displayed as squares. Of course, I could change my font preferences to use unifont, for example, as a workaround but I don't really like it.
I think I could easily make a script to do that. I will send you the transformed scripts and you can tell me what you think.
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Please send me an example so I could understand what you mean. I am using the MioFlash->toMOTko converter because it's the easiest way for me to create toMOTko vocabulary lists (remember, I am not a programmer), and I don't think it supports the thing you are describing. Right now, the input for that converter is
買う/かう/ to buy/comment
Maybe you could add an optional field after the comment, say "otherlang". Later all I would have to do is to replace "otherlang" with the tag for the proper language.
Or maybe we could come up with a similar simple format that could be easily converted to proper toMOTko XML. Working on XML with a simple text editor is difficult for me.
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Please send me an example so I could understand what you mean. I am using the MioFlash->toMOTko converter because it's the easiest way for me to create toMOTko vocabulary lists (remember, I am not a programmer), and I don't think it supports the thing you are describing. Right now, the input for that converter is
買う/かう/ to buy/comment
Maybe you could add an optional field after the comment, say "otherlang". Later all I would have to do is to replace "otherlang" with the tag for the proper language.
Or maybe we could come up with a similar simple format that could be easily converted to proper toMOTko XML. Working on XML with a simple text editor is difficult for me.
No hay problema. I understand that very well. That's why I offered to do the script myself. When it's done I will send you the converted files. I don't think it's necessary to modify the MioFlash->toMOTko tool just for that. This case is an exception and it's probably not worth it, I think. Of course, if I'm wrong, I may add an additional tool later to easily perform this transformation.
Your contribution is very appreciated even though you're not a programmer
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@Kurochka:
Here is the transformation script (written in Ruby) :
#!/usr/bin/ruby -KU
#
# Usage : bin/convertComments2OtherLanguage.rb NihongoShoho01.xml > NihongoShoho01v2.xml
#
require 'rexml/document'
include REXML
filename = ARGV[ 0 ]
otherLang = ARGV[ 1 ]
xml = REXML::Document.new( File.open( filename ) )
xml.elements.each( '//term' ) do
| term |
comment = term.elements[ 'comment' ]
if( comment )
commentText = comment.text
if( commentText.length > 0 )
# Make new trans element.
trans = Element.new( 'trans' )
trans.attributes[ 'lang' ] = otherLang
word = Element.new( 'word' )
word.text = commentText
trans.elements[ 1 ] = word
# Remove obsolete comment element.
term.delete_element term.elements[ 'comment' ]
# Add new trans element.
term.elements[ 3 ] = trans
end
end
end
xml.write( STDOUT, 0 )
exit
I've not decided yet if I will make a web interface similar to MioFlash converter. I'm not sure other people will use it. If someone else is interested, please let me know.
The attached file is an archive containing the transformed glossaries.
Make a new folder and import the new glossary files into toMOTko. For each file, a dialog should appear warning you that the imported glossary contains translations in more than 2 languages. You can choose the languages that you have an interest into. For example, if you don't care about Spanish, you're free to uncheck it. In my case, I checked all the languages and clicked Ok. Once the import is done, you should be able to select Japanese, English and Spanish in the language selectors (at the top of the Glossary Manager). If you want to practice Spanish, you choose English and Spanish and start a quiz (of course, you need to check some words to study, first).
I think it's more convenient like that. Your glossary files become interesting even for someone who doesn't care about Japanese. Also, someone who is learning only Japanese doesn't have to import the Spanish translations that are useless for him/her.
What do you think?
EDIT: I took a look at those two websites you mentioned before. They contain a lot of interesting data and in a very consistent way. I think I will write a script to extract all the data and automatically make toMOTko's glossary files from it.
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Thank you.
Here are the remaining lessons (4 and 5 are in the same form as were 1 and 2, the other ones are just in Japanese/Spanish txt files plus there is a separate file for English translations). The websites that I gave have English translations for lessons 1-15. The file in the archive includes English for other lessons as well. This is all in raw form. Maybe it will be easier for you to convert into toMOTko because I do it manually.
Look at the program on that site http://www.kahome.co.uk/nip30.exe (http://www.kahome.co.uk/nip30.exe) ?
I think it is drawing kanji from scratch by getting coordinates from files ending in .sym. A very interesting approach in 1999.
There are some other interesting things on that site:
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibtango.htm (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibtango.htm)
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibkanji.htm (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibkanji.htm)
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibbumpoo.htm (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibbumpoo.htm)
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Thank you.
Here are the remaining lessons (4 and 5 are in the same form as were 1 and 2, the other ones are just in Japanese/Spanish txt files plus there is a separate file for English translations). The websites that I gave have English translations for lessons 1-15. The file in the archive includes English for other lessons as well. This is all in raw form. Maybe it will be easier for you to convert into toMOTko because I do it manually.
I think so too. Thanks for extracting the data. That should ease the script development to generate the toMOTko files. I will let you know as soon as I'm done.
Look at the program on that site http://www.kahome.co.uk/nip30.exe (http://www.kahome.co.uk/nip30.exe) ?
I think it is drawing kanji from scratch by getting coordinates from files ending in .sym. A very interesting approach in 1999.
Interesting indeed. The application is not bad at all and works flawlessly.
There are some other interesting things on that site:
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibtango.htm (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibtango.htm)
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibkanji.htm (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibkanji.htm)
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibbumpoo.htm (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/ibbumpoo.htm)
Thanks again! You're very resourceful.
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Unfortunately, the order of the words in Spanish and English differs so it's not as easy as I thought to generate the glossary files.
Still, here are the lessons 6 and 7, in your format (with the comments field containing the Spanish translation). I think it's better for me to concentrate on coding toMOTko instead. I may spend some time converting other Shoho files but if I do, I will begin with the last lessons first, and proceed downward. In other words, from lesson 34, then 33, 32, and so on. This way, we can work together on this task without collisions.
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Deal.
I had to get the English portion from a number of sources, so it is not consistent with the Spanish one. Sorry.
In any case, don't get sidetracked. This is not a big deal.
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Last week-end, I implemented a new feature on toMOTko which saves the quiz's state before exiting the application. This way, it's possible to resume the previously started quiz when you restart the application. This is useful when you have a lot of selected words to study. For the moment, only the last quiz can be saved and resumed.
I was wondering : Do you think it would be useful to be able to save more than the last quiz's state? Like maybe save a quiz's state into a file so you can resume it later. I think it would be useful, for example, if you're learning more than 1 language or if you're learning different sets of words.
In the same idea, I wonder if it would also be interesting to be able to save the selection of words. I mean, the state of the checkboxes in the Glossary Manager. Kurochka mentioned in a previous message to have a feature which would allow to remove words that seems well known (statistically like if you have 0 error for one word). I think this could be implemented with loadable/savable selections.
I still have to think some more about it. If you have some good ideas/suggestions about this, I would be welcome to hear from you. I'm looking for solutions that do not make the interface too complicated. I think it's already loaded enough. I would like to keep things as simple as possible.
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State-save for the quiz is a useful feature. However, personally I do not see a *need* for more than one. It will complicate the interface (a separate menu item to select which save to resume, a save dialog window to choose the name for the save, etc.) Study lists are usually of manageable size. What would be the practical purpose of switching between quizzes back and forth?
However, I think keeping all sorts of statistics would be very useful (numerical, graphs?). Seeing how well/bad you are doing creates psychological incentives, and helps you to identify the areas that need improvement. For example, recently I wanted to know how many words I had learned so far in Japanese. The only way I knew how to do it without counting words in each study list that I have learned was to select all these lists and go through the combined quiz. At the end, there was a notice that I had learned four hundred something words. However, I know that some words are 100% memorized but I have trouble with others.
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State-save for the quiz is a useful feature. However, personally I do not see a *need* for more than one. It will complicate the interface (a separate menu item to select which save to resume, a save dialog window to choose the name for the save, etc.) Study lists are usually of manageable size. What would be the practical purpose of switching between quizzes back and forth?
In my case, this would be useful because I'm studying Japanese, Spanish, and German. So let's say I start a very long quiz in Japanese on Monday. Of course, I cannot complete it because the study list contains more than 300 words. The next day, if I feel like learning German, I will lose the state of the Japanese quiz as soon as I start a new quiz. I wish I could resume the Japanese quiz on Wednesday. And why not, resume the German quiz on Thursday...
That's the use case.
I'm not sure the loading/saving the selection itself is useful, but loading/saving quizzes could be useful (at least, it would be, for me ) to satisfy this use case.
Actually, to make things simpler, maybe I could have one saved quiz state per language pair. So if I start a quiz with fr_de (French -> German), and quit. The quiz would be saved and resumable only if the language indicators are fr_de. If I start a quiz in en_ja (English -> Japanese) and then later, select Resume Quiz, the latest quiz in en_ja would be restored. That could be an interesting option that would not modify the interface at all and suits my short terms needs. What I don't like about this is that the handling of saved quizzes is not explicit to the user. This behavior will have to be explained in the documentation. The advantage though is that it won't bother people that are learning just one language, and I suspect that this is the majority of toMOTko's users. That seems like a good compromise.
EDIT: I implemented this option yesterday. It works like a charm. If you just learn one language, you will not even notice it's there. And if you learn more than one language, you will be able the resume a quiz for each learnt language.
However, I think keeping all sorts of statistics would be very useful (numerical, graphs?). Seeing how well/bad you are doing creates psychological incentives, and helps you to identify the areas that need improvement. For example, recently I wanted to know how many words I had learned so far in Japanese. The only way I knew how to do it without counting words in each study list that I have learned was to select all these lists and go through the combined quiz. At the end, there was a notice that I had learned four hundred something words. However, I know that some words are 100% memorized but I have trouble with others.
I began to address this a little bit. I've introduced a Properties panel on which I display the count of words, glossaries and folders. I will probably add other statistics in there in time. If I can, I would like to use graphs as I think it could be fun to do and to see. But to tell the truth, I have not given much thought about this aspect.
I think that if the algorithm that picks the next word to be asked was able to consider these statistics that I won't need to load/save the words selection so I probably don't need that.
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Good stuff.
Could you see if you could convert the following kanji list from Genki I to tomotko format? If so, please break them up into separate lessons (from #3 to #12 as indicated in the file). I think the tabbed examples should go to the comments section.
The info is taken from http://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/sheaa/projects...kanji_main.html (http://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/sheaa/projects/genki/kanji_main.html)
I may do the same for lessons 13 through 23.
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Could you see if you could convert the following kanji list from Genki I to tomotko format? If so, please break them up into separate lessons (from #3 to #12 as indicated in the file). I think the tabbed examples should go to the comments section.
Here you go. If you see anything wrong, let me know.
I may do the same for lessons 13 through 23.
If you can provide me the data in the same format, I can run the same script I wrote for the previous lessons in a few minutes.
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Hi there,
I just recently found tomotko and started using it to expand my vocabulary. Now, what I would like to do is to build voc lists from things I look up in a dictionary. While this kind of works with copy & paste, it is incredible tedious, since I have to go back and forth between the dictionary (zbedic or ztenv) and tomotko. I wonder if there is a way to make this interaction better for what I think this should be quite a frequent use case, no?
How are you building up your glossaries?
Ctop
Zaurus user for 5 years -- B500 -> C860 -> C1000
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Hi there,
I just recently found tomotko and started using it to expand my vocabulary. Now, what I would like to do is to build voc lists from things I look up in a dictionary. While this kind of works with copy & paste, it is incredible tedious, since I have to go back and forth between the dictionary (zbedic or ztenv) and tomotko. I wonder if there is a way to make this interaction better for what I think this should be quite a frequent use case, no?
How are you building up your glossaries?
Ctop
Zaurus user for 5 years -- B500 -> C860 -> C1000
Hi Ctop,
So far, I either use copy-paste from Zten (most of the time), write new words myself (typing), or convert existing vocabularies found on the net. I agree with you, I wish it would be less tedious. This feature is on the todo list for quite a long time but other things have higher priority for the moment.
I think it would be possible to interoperate with other applications if they are programmed accordingly, using QCopChannel messages. It's something I've never tried. I don't know if Zten or Zbedic already support this. I doubt so but I will check the code, just in case.
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Frederic,
Thanks for converting the Kanji study lists for Genki. Here is the remainder if you don't mind.
Hi there,
I just recently found tomotko and started using it to expand my vocabulary. Now, what I would like to do is to build voc lists from things I look up in a dictionary. While this kind of works with copy & paste, it is incredible tedious, since I have to go back and forth between the dictionary (zbedic or ztenv) and tomotko. I wonder if there is a way to make this interaction better for what I think this should be quite a frequent use case, no?
How are you building up your glossaries?
Ctop
Zaurus user for 5 years -- B500 -> C860 -> C1000
Hi Ctop,
So far, I either use copy-paste from Zten (most of the time), write new words myself (typing), or convert existing vocabularies found on the net. I agree with you, I wish it would be less tedious. This feature is on the todo list for quite a long time but other things have higher priority for the moment.
I think it would be possible to interoperate with other applications if they are programmed accordingly, using QCopChannel messages. It's something I've never tried. I don't know if Zten or Zbedic already support this. I doubt so but I will check the code, just in case.
The Opie Reader has code to send words to zbedic, and it works like a charm. I presume that there must be a way to do the reverse, i.e., send words from zbedic to an outside application.
As Frederic mentioned, if you are dealing with lots of words, it is easier to prepare your list in a text editor (I use simplified format (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16606&st=15&p=159894&#entry159894)) and then convert it to tomotko format with this tool (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/en/converters.shtml).
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Frederic,
Thanks for converting the Kanji study lists for Genki. Here is the remainder if you don't mind.
Voila!
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Frederic, kurochka,
Thanks for your answers.
The Opie Reader has code to send words to zbedic, and it works like a charm. I presume that there must be a way to do the reverse, i.e., send words from zbedic to an outside application.
Right, Opie Reader and also FBreader do this. I think it has to be in the sending application, so it probably has to come from the dictionary. Or is there some kind of general scripting available for the Zaurus? I have to look into that, maybe.
As Frederic mentioned, if you are dealing with lots of words, it is easier to prepare your list in a text editor (I use simplified format (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16606&st=15&p=159894&#entry159894)) and then convert it to tomotko format with this tool (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/en/converters.shtml).
Thanks. Yes, I guess for larger lists this is the way to go. But it would be handy to pick things up as you go.
best,
Ctop
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Frederic,
I have my next top feature request.
Could you please make hotkeys (selectable or fixed - up and down on the joystick) for scrolling the comment window?
As you've seen I've put lots of examples of kanji words into the comment section, and I need to scroll up and down all the time. The new feature of maximizing the comment section will help when you release the new version of tomotko; however, scroll hotkeys will still be very useful.
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Frederic,
I have my next top feature request.
Could you please make hotkeys (selectable or fixed - up and down on the joystick) for scrolling the comment window?
As you've seen I've put lots of examples of kanji words into the comment section, and I need to scroll up and down all the time. The new feature of maximizing the comment section will help when you release the new version of tomotko; however, scroll hotkeys will still be very useful.
It's funny because I had a similar idea but with left - right key to scroll the 3 top fields (term, alt, and term). Ok, I will try to implement it. Hopefully, it will be in the next release, that is planned for Christmas, by the way.
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Can't wait for the upcoming release! Yey!
Do you think it is possible to allow for integration of kanji animations from the following project?
http://www.kanjicafe.com/using_soder.htm (http://www.kanjicafe.com/using_soder.htm)
The license is unique; however, it does allow for use of the diagrams in free electronic (not paper) projects.
It could be that outright integration would complicate things (attribution, etc.); however, I do not think creating conditions for users to add diagrams on their own would require attribution, linking to the authors' site and inclusion of the license.
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If I implement image support into toMOTko, I will try to make it as general as possible. I don't want to introduce exceptions or special cases for Japanese (or another language). So for a word, you will be allowed to associate one image. You will be free to associate an animated kanji image to a word if you want. I have never displayed an animated gif with Qt but I expect it to work fine.
I read the license quickly and I don't see any problem with it. I think we could use these images in toMOTko. I've already added a description field for glossaries (next version). We could use this field to write information pointing to their website if needed and, vice-versa, we could give them toMOTko's website URL if we distribute glossary files using the images.
Thanks for the link. Indeed, that would be very cool and useful to use these images in toMOTko!
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I will try to make it as general as possible. I don't want to introduce exceptions or special cases for Japanese (or another language).
Sounds like a good approach.
I have a separate question. You will be using zlib for the new version, right? I have installed zlib-eb 1.2.3v01 on my Zaurus (http://ebsnap.lkj.jp/zaurus/). I believe it's for EPWING dictionaries that I have compressed but I may be wrong. Will this version be sufficient?
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I'm using zlib_1.2.3. I found it somewhere on the net. The numbers match so maybe it will be enough. I will test it and tell you the outcome.
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It doesn't work. The good news is that zlib is small : ~45Kb and doesn't conflict with the other package.
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Ho! Ho! Hooo! Merry Christmas!!!
Version 0.9.0 of toMOTko has just been released (http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=181531&release_id=562909)!
This release contains important changes in terms of data format and implementation. I hope the upgrade will be smooth for everybody. Constructive feedback is welcome.
Enjoy!
P.S.: Here are some features planned for the next release :
- Save the remaining xml data in compressed binary.
- Implement import/export for folders.
- Save/load interface state when quitting/starting the application.
Nothing particularly exciting but this is a prerequisite step before implementing images (and sounds) for terms.
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Thank you, Frederic. This is awesome!
I'll install and report.
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Comments after the install.
- The maximize function works as intended. Thanks. The same goes for scrolling the comments field with the keys.
- There is some sort of a bug with the cut/paste function for study lists. Here is what happens. I had some study lists in the root directory (they were preserved from the previous version). I created a new folder, cut one of the lists, selected the newly created folder and pressed paste icon. The application shut down. I repeated the same thing over and over. The same bug. However, when I create a blank study list in the new directory and open/expand the directory (i.e., from + to -), I can paste the study list without a problem.
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Thank you, Frederic. This is awesome!
I'll install and report.
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Comments after the install.
- The maximize function works as intended. Thanks. The same goes for scrolling the comments field with the keys.
- There is some sort of a bug with the cut/paste function for study lists. Here is what happens. I had some study lists in the root directory (they were preserved from the previous version). I created a new folder, cut one of the lists, selected the newly created folder and pressed paste icon. The application shut down. I repeated the same thing over and over. The same bug. However, when I create a blank study list in the new directory and open/expand the directory (i.e., from + to -), I can paste the study list without a problem.
Thanks for reporting so quickly.
This is the kind of bugs I was worrying about. I'm able to reproduce it so I will fix it ASAP.
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I think I've fixed the bug. Release 0.9.1 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531) is available.
@kurochka : Tell me if it still crashes or no.
Edit: I just found another bug : When resuming a previously started quiz, if you had moved some terms that were selected for quiz (and I mean cut & pasted the terms elsewhere or at the same place, actually) , they won't be found by the quiz and the quiz page will appear kind of blank. In such case, it's better to start a new quiz instead of resuming the previous one. Although it's annoying, it's not as serious as the cut & paste bug and I will probably fix it when I release v0.10.0... unless someone really needs it quickly.
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Thanks.
I think you fixed the bug that I reported earlier.
There is another bug. I used to be able to copy characters so that I could then paste them into a dictionary. I can't copy now without going into the Edit mode.
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Have you seen a program called Anki? Any ideas for tomotko?
http://repose.cx/anki/ (http://repose.cx/anki/)
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I think you fixed the bug that I reported earlier.
Good.
There is another bug. I used to be able to copy characters so that I could then paste them into a dictionary. I can't copy now without going into the Edit mode.
It's a side-effect of the vertical and horizontal scrolling arrows feature. I will check what I can do about that. I don't know when though. I left Japan to go to my birth town. My father is very ill and I will have to spend some time to take good care of him. I'm not sure that I will have much time left to work on toMOTko for the coming months.
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I left Japan to go to my birth town. My father is very ill and I will have to spend some time to take good care of him. I'm not sure that I will have much time left to work on toMOTko for the coming months.
My prayers are with your father. Don't worry about tomotko.
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For French people interested in learning German, I released an archive file containing glossaries taken from Harrap's express method. It contains lessons 1 to 9. Other lessons may be added later. It's located here (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/glossaries/HarrapsExpressMethod_fr2de.zip) on toMOTko's website in the Glossaries page.
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Good news! After two months of exams and treatments, my father is feeling a lot better. He's feeling so good actually that I'm going back home next week and will resume working on toMOTko.
Just by curiosity, would there be any developer(s) ready to contribute to the project. I think that help would be very welcomed to speed up the development. Please, let me know if you're interested.
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Good news indeed! About your father that is.
Unfortunately, I can't write code so I am of no help.
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I just released toMOTko 0.9.2 (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/tomotko/toMOTko_0.9.2_arm.ipk). This is a maintenance release containing 2 small bug fixes (but one of them was important for installing the application). If you're already using version 0.9.1, it's probably not worth upgrading.
Changes:
- Fixed copy-cut-paste bug reported by Kurochka.
- Fixed bug #1872216 : Added test before copying previous data in preinst script.
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I just released toMOTko 0.9.2 (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/tomotko/toMOTko_0.9.2_arm.ipk). This is a maintenance release containing 2 small bug fixes (but one of them was important for installing the application). If you're already using version 0.9.1, it's probably not worth upgrading.
Changes:
- Fixed copy-cut-paste bug reported by Kurochka.
- Fixed bug #1872216 : Added test before copying previous data in preinst script.
Thank you.
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Hey, Frederic. How are you? Haven't heard from you for a long while.
What's going on with the project?
Just wanted to let you know that I use tomotko every day while commuting to work. Works great!
BTW, I am thinking of adding N810 to my Z. Is it hard to port tomotko to that platform?
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Hi Kurochka,
I'm fine, thank you! :-) Always a pleasure to hear from you.
I'm still working on toMOTko. I expect to release a new version within one month if everything goes well.
The two main features will be 1) image support and 2) copy/paste/import/export of subtree of data. It's already working fine enough but I need to make more tests and solidify the application a bit. I don't want to release it too early.
About the N810, I have no idea, really. I don't plan to buy such phone at the moment. I don't even know if we can buy and use one in Japan? Anybody knows? I would be curious to try one as many people on the forum seem to like them a lot (some even prefer them over the Z). If other QT applications work on this device, I guess that porting toMOTko would be relatively easy. I don't know though if the screen size (that is probably smaller?) would mandate some significant changes in the inferface design. Anyway, that's certainly something I would like to do to port toMOTko on other platforms eventually.
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About the N810, I have no idea, really. I don't plan to buy such phone at the moment. I don't even know if we can buy and use one in Japan? Anybody knows?
Yes, you can buy it in Japan, one of my colleagues has one. It's not a phone, it has WiFi.
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Thanks for the info. I was sure it was a phone so I never took interest in this device. After checking the specs on the web, it really looks cool. Next time I go shopping, I will try to find one to get a real feel of it.
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Just by curiosity, I have embedded a poll in the first page of toMOTko's website (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net) so that people can enter how often they use the application. I invite everyone to participate. It takes just a few seconds.
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I just released toMOTko 0.10.0 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531). Take a look at the release note (http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=611459&group_id=181531) for latest changes and important information before installing.
Next version will have a better interface for specifying sequence orders that will also support image (that's not the case actually). Also, a simple search tool may be implemented.
Enjoy!
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Great job! Thanks.
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Do you think it is possible to allow for integration of kanji animations from the following project?
http://www.kanjicafe.com/using_soder.htm (http://www.kanjicafe.com/using_soder.htm)
The license is unique; however, it does allow for use of the diagrams in free electronic (not paper) projects.
It could be that outright integration would complicate things (attribution, etc.); however, I do not think creating conditions for users to add diagrams on their own would require attribution, linking to the authors' site and inclusion of the license.
I asked James Rose (the contact person for KanjiCafe) if it would be ok to use the animated kanji images in some toMOTko's glossaries. I thought that writing a reference link to the licence in the glossary's description field would be enough, but unfortunately, it's not. To comply with rule 2 of the license, I would need to show a note like "The animated kanji is taken from KanjiCafe.com according to the licence at http://kanjicafe.com/license.htm (http://kanjicafe.com/license.htm)" each time I display an animated kanji. Considering the limited space of the Zaurus's screen, I find that too prohibitive and won't use these images in the public glossaries. Nonetheless, anyone is free to use them for its personal glossaries.
Just in case, I asked how much would it cost to use a commercial license of these animated images. I don't think I can afford it but who knows? I will report on that later. Even then, I'm not sure that a commercial license would remove this restriction.
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Hi, just recently I was downloading the latest tomotko and I found some nice screenshots in the glossary section.
I was shocked to see a spelling mistake in the Thai screenshot I had spent a lot of time checking the spellings. When I checked my original copies I found the same mistake plus it had a few friends.
Please find the fixed glossaries on my webpage at http://www.lyndonhill.com/Projects/thaionzaurus.html (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Projects/thaionzaurus.html) or you can catch the individual files here:- http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20Alphabet.zip (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20Alphabet.zip)
- http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20numbers.zip (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20numbers.zip)
- http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20time.zip (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20time.zip)
- http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%2...y%20phrases.zip (http://www.lyndonhill.com/Downloads/Thai%20everyday%20phrases.zip)
P.S. Frederic please update the screenshot!
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Done.
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I asked James Rose (the contact person for KanjiCafe) if it would be ok to use the animated kanji images in some toMOTko's glossaries. I thought that writing a reference link to the licence in the glossary's description field would be enough, but unfortunately, it's not. To comply with rule 2 of the license, I would need to show a note like "The animated kanji is taken from KanjiCafe.com according to the licence at http://kanjicafe.com/license.htm (http://kanjicafe.com/license.htm)" each time I display an animated kanji. Considering the limited space of the Zaurus's screen, I find that too prohibitive and won't use these images in the public glossaries. Nonetheless, anyone is free to use them for its personal glossaries.
Just in case, I asked how much would it cost to use a commercial license of these animated images. I don't think I can afford it but who knows? I will report on that later. Even then, I'm not sure that a commercial license would remove this restriction.
It's confirmed. Even though a commercial license is affordable, rule 2 still applies and I would need to display the license note each time an animated kanji image is shown in toMOTko.
I suggested to modify toMOTko's glossary data format to add a license field so I could display it (using a confirmation dialog) when an end-user imports a glossary into the application but my proposition was judged not enough and was rejected. As I want to keep the design of toMOTko as generic as possible without introducing special cases for particular languages, I won't include the images from kanjicafe.com into my glossary files. もったいないけど人生です。
That being said, I think that nothing prevents an end-user to use the animated images for his personal glossaries. toMOTko has no way of knowing it anyway. For toMOTko, it's just an image like any other.
I even wonder if it would be ok to have a glossary file with hard links pointing to the animated images in some hard coded directory. If an end-user separately downloads and installs the images to the same location, the images would be displayed by toMOTko (as a side-effect). If the images are not found, obviously they would not be displayed. This way, I could distribute glossaries with links to kanjicafe's images without distributing the images themselves. Could this be acceptable and/or legal? Anyone has an opinion on this?
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Another new release of toMOTko (0.11.0 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531&package_id=210341&release_id=622039)) is available. As usual, take a look at the release note for latest changes and important information before installing. Don't forget to answer the poll if you haven't done so yet.
I consider putting my energy on porting the application on Qt4. The idea would be to make it work on the desktop (Windows, Linux, and MacOS) and learn Qt4 at the same time.
Your feedback is welcome.
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I consider putting my energy on porting the application on Qt4. The idea would be to make it work on the desktop (Windows, Linux, and MacOS) and learn Qt4 at the same time.
Hi Frederic, thanks for the new version.
I have an application that I wrote in QT3, ported to QT4 to run it on the desktop and now I am
porting it back so I can run it on my Zaurus.
I think you will find porting to QT4 a mixed bag. Many functions changed name, some disappeared.
For some classes you will have to go to a lot of trouble to find a work around and others will be easy.
I recommend avoiding the QT3 support libraries, you won't learn QT4 that way.
Good luck!
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I think you will find porting to QT4 a mixed bag. Many functions changed name, some disappeared.
For some classes you will have to go to a lot of trouble to find a work around and others will be easy.
I recommend avoiding the QT3 support libraries, you won't learn QT4 that way.
Good luck!
Thanks! The documentation seems to contain very valuable information about how to port application from 2.x to 3.x and 3.x to 4.x. I will read that beforehand to avoid unpleasant surprises. I will follow your advice as I don't care about Qt3. I don't intend to use qt3to4 tool either. I will do the conversion manually in order to see the differences. Hopefully, it won't be too hard to do.
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Yokatta!!!
The search function, though basic, is great news! I constantly find myself confused by similarly sounding words and need to find what that other word was. This would be helpful. Show alt in the list option is also useful. Now I can choose to see romaji.
It's unfortunate that KanjiCafe is so inflexible. I could suggest showing the copyright notice every time the quiz containing these images is started that should be often enough; however, it seems they are set in their ways. In any case, they distribute the images for free to end-users so I will use them on my own. Any help will be appreciated though. I think distributing glossaries with links without images should work well. There are some precedents with similar approaches (e.g., provision for use of some closed drivers in Linux, Microsoft fonts also in Linux, etc.)
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Yokatta!!!
The search function, though basic, is great news! I constantly find myself confused by similarly sounding words and need to find what that other word was. This would be helpful. Show alt in the list option is also useful. Now I can choose to see romaji.
I'm glad you like the new version. Now that the Search Tool is there, I use it quite often too.
It's unfortunate that KanjiCafe is so inflexible. I could suggest showing the copyright notice every time the quiz containing these images is started that should be often enough; however, it seems they are set in their ways.
Indeed :-(
In any case, they distribute the images for free to end-users so I will use them on my own. Any help will be appreciated though. I think distributing glossaries with links without images should work well. There are some precedents with similar approaches (e.g., provision for use of some closed drivers in Linux, Microsoft fonts also in Linux, etc.)
I agree with you. Concerning copyrights, I think it would be legal as there would be no image copies involved. However, it would still be a violation of the licence agreement. I don't think that there are pertinent legal consequences against that though, are there? I would not be listed as a good licensee but eh! If that's the price to pay... Anyway, I will think about it and ask advice to as many people as possible.
Meanwhile, if you want to use the images for your own glossaries, it's rather tedious but it's possible. I use this online tool (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/search.htm) to get the UTF-8 character number associated to a specific kanji so that I can find the corresponding image file. Some kanjis have no images either because no volunteers have done them yet or because they are not jouyou kanjis.
In time, I would like to develop a plug-in that would alleviate this task. It would be an independant component external to toMOTko that you would install separately. toMOTko would detect if it's there or not. If so, it would be possible to invoke a special interface where you will enter the kanji and the corresponding image would be automatically fetched (if it's found). That will have to wait though until I complete the port to Qt4.
By the way, so far, it works fine. I can already see (partially) the Glossary Manager on Windows and Linux.
[img]http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/toMOTko_qt-4_win_demo-1.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
Updated : Here is how it looks (2008/11/27)
[img]http://www.fbergeron.com/zaurus/tomotko/toMOTko_qt-4_win_demo-2.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
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it would still be a violation of the licence agreement. I don't think that there are pertinent legal consequences against that though, are there? I would not be listed as a good licensee but eh!
License agreement is just that -- an agreement or contract of two or more parties. In order to use the images, you have to agree to that agreement. If you do not use the images in your application you do not enter into the agreement. Therefore, you cannot violate it by doing to your application whatever you want to.
Copyright is different from license agreements because it does not require your agreement/consent/acceptance. Again you do not violate copyright if you do not copy, distribute, etc. the copyrighted works themselves. There is an argument that by creating a program/function that can have no other legitimate use other than to permit copyright infringement by third parties, you facilitate/infringe on that copyright (e.g., some of the claims in the lawsuits against Kazaa). However, that's an extremely hard argument to prove.
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I think there might be a bug/problem with 0.11. I uninstalled the 0.10, installed 0.10. I didn't notice any recompilation of the study lists. When I tried to start a quiz, there was a request whether I wanted to resume the old one. Whether I said yes or no, the application would shut down.
Then I went to the Preferences section and did something to Revealing sequence (I think) and the application started working. Maybe default settings after the upgrade made it touchy.
Also, could you give some explanation, examples of the new revealing sequence dialog. Should I make it something like a+c+b? Is just a enough? If just a is enough, what will be revealed after a?
Just saw a pic on http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/img/screens...erencesQuiz.png (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/img/screenshots/preferencesQuiz.png)
I think + means "together with" and > means "before/earlier".
Could you put in some default sequences that we can choose from? When I just installed the application the sequence field was empty.
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After reading all your message, I think the shutdown occurred because you had no Revealing Sequences defined. Indeed, toMOTko could not proceed to resume the quiz because it didn't know where to start (which fields to reveal first). That's odd because there should have been 3 sequences defined by default after installing 0.11.0 :
a > c+e > b+d (this one should be checked)
a+e > c > b+d
c+e > b > a+d
Also, toMOTko would not allow you to close the Preferences dialog if you delete all the Revealing Sequences. So you're forced to define at least one.
If you don't mind, could you compress and send me (by email) the directory /home/zaurus/.toMOTko-before0.11.0 if it exists. As the name implies, it's a copy of your data before you install the latest version. This way, maybe I can reproduce and fix the bug.
About the Revealing Sequence, I think you understand pretty well. Just in case, here is an extract from the Preferences page of the Online Help (found on the website or directly in the application if you click the question mark in the upper right corner next to close button) :
A revealing sequence determines which fields will be shown by the Quiz when asking a question and in which order they will be revealed. A revealing sequence is expressed as a character string similar to a mathematical expression. Each letter corresponds to a specific field of the Quiz as shown in the picture on the left. Between each letter, either a junction (+) operator or an iteration (>) operator is used.
For example, let's take a look at the following revealing sequence : a+e > c > b+d.
a+e means that the Quiz, when asking a question, will start showing the source language's term field (a) and the image field (e) (if there is one defined for the current term). Then, if the Eye button is clicked, the target language's term will be revealed ©. If the Eye button is clicked again, the target language's Alt./Phon. field (b) and Comment field (d) will be revealed.
When all fields are revealed, if Eye button is clicked another time, the Comment field will be expanded. If the Eye button is clicked again, the Comment field will be minimized.
If you have a Revealing Sequence that is only a, only the field (a) will be shown by the Eye button. The other fields can be shown if you click on them individually.
I hope that clarifies. I know it's a little bit more complicated than before but it's also more flexible. If I had kept the previous strategy (using simple checkboxes), it was becoming too cluttered because of the additional combinations that the image field brings.
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It's unfortunate that KanjiCafe is so inflexible.
There is a better solution, unfortunately I have not had enough time to pursue it yet.
Wikimedia has a project to generate diagrams for stroke order for CJK characters: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:...e_order_project (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:CJK_stroke_order_project)
It's already used in Japanese wiktionary, for most kanji you can find a nice diagram showing the strokes. They haven't drawn all the diagrams but I am fairly confident they will finish the project.
I noticed this because I started looking into converting Japanese wiktionary for zbedic. Reading through wiktionary dumps is quite challenging; some people have already written parsers; I found quite an advanced one and downloaded the source but have not had the time to investigate it (it's not a simple matter to just run it and generate output).
What needs to be done is
- Write a parser to go through wiktionary and find linked kanji
- Script to download kanji diagrams from wikimedia (only links are in wiktionary)
- Script to cut diagrams into separate frames, resize them and make an animgif (toMOTko can handle GIF89 right ?)
- Script to generate flashcard file with pictures.
Wikimedia project has already generated >300 animgifs but they have about 1000 kanji in total. Most of these steps would be required if you use kanjicafe's images.
If you have more time than me and want to do this work, then please tell me so I don't duplicate the effort. However, I can't give an estimate of how long it will take me. Maybe a very long time!
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License agreement is just that -- an agreement or contract of two or more parties. In order to use the images, you have to agree to that agreement. If you do not use the images in your application you do not enter into the agreement. Therefore, you cannot violate it by doing to your application whatever you want to.
Copyright is different from license agreements because it does not require your agreement/consent/acceptance. Again you do not violate copyright if you do not copy, distribute, etc. the copyrighted works themselves. There is an argument that by creating a program/function that can have no other legitimate use other than to permit copyright infringement by third parties, you facilitate/infringe on that copyright (e.g., some of the claims in the lawsuits against Kazaa). However, that's an extremely hard argument to prove.
Interesting. As the application is not aware if an image associated to a term comes from KanjiCafe or not, I imagine that I'm not bound to the license agreement.
However, in the case I develop a plug-in facilitating the association between toMOTko and KanjiCafe's images, I could hardly deny that. Or could I? It's arguable as, once again, the plug-in doesn't need to be aware of KanjiCafe in reality. It just needs to convert a kanji to its UTF-8 character code to find a corresponding file that could be KanjiCafe's or not. As a matter of fact, it could even be a CJK stroke order project's file (mentioned by Koan's last post).
There is a better solution, unfortunately I have not had enough time to pursue it yet.
Wikimedia has a project to generate diagrams for stroke order for CJK characters: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:...e_order_project (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:CJK_stroke_order_project)
It's already used in Japanese wiktionary, for most kanji you can find a nice diagram showing the strokes. They haven't drawn all the diagrams but I am fairly confident they will finish the project.
Thanks Koan for this link. It looks full of potential.
- Write a parser to go through wiktionary and find linked kanji
- Script to download kanji diagrams from wikimedia (only links are in wiktionary)
- Script to cut diagrams into separate frames, resize them and make an animgif (toMOTko can handle GIF89 right ?)
- Script to generate flashcard file with pictures.
Why do I need steps 1 and 2? Can't I download the files directly from the website using wget? Maybe they are not up to date?
EDIT: The version of wget I'm using (1.10.2) doesn't seem to digest the asian characters in the urls so the images cannot be downloaded :-( Maybe an alternative tool could achieve that though.
For step 3, Yes, toMOTko can handle GIF89. For this job, ImageMagick is THE tool as mentioned in this page :
http://wiki.flux-cms.org/display/BLOG/Resi...ith+ImageMagick (http://wiki.flux-cms.org/display/BLOG/Resizing+animated+GIFs+with+ImageMagick)
I tested the procedure and it works well. Result is better when reducing an image but is still very good (a bit blurry) for making an image larger. So writing a script to process all the images should not be too hard. Anyway, as the original size of the images (those found on the website) is 100x100, I think it's already good enough and doesn't need to be resized for toMOTko.
For step 4, it depends... I don't think we necessarily want to "generate" a flashcard file. I think it would be better (more generic) to allow a user to easily associate an animated image to a term whenever he wants (that's the idea of the plug-in already mentioned.)
I think toMOTko could use both sets of animated images.
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Why do I need steps 1 and 2? Can't I download the files directly from the website using wget? Maybe they are not up to date?
Flashcards that only show the stroke order are not useful to me. I want to be able to look up a kanji, it's meaning and how to write it.
I don't have a big list of kanji so if I don't parse wiktionary I don't know what files to download.
EDIT: The version of wget I'm using (1.10.2) doesn't seem to digest the asian characters in the urls so the images cannot be downloaded :-( Maybe an alternative tool could achieve that though.
Have you tried representing those characters in escaped UTF8 ? http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/appendix/notes...non-ascii-chars (http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/appendix/notes.html#non-ascii-chars)
For step 4, it depends... I don't think we necessarily want to "generate" a flashcard file. I think it would be better (more generic) to allow a user to easily associate an animated image to a term whenever he wants (that's the idea of the plug-in already mentioned.)
As I said, my plan is to make a flashcard file with kanji, reading and stroke order. I'm not interested in a plugin to select kanji images to attach to a term.
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Frederic,
at the end of your post here (a way back):
https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...mp;#entry170486 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16606&st=105&p=170486&#entry170486)
you said that you could convert lists listed at this site:
http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/tango.pl?mo=0...fm=16&to=30 (http://www.kahome.co.uk/japa/tango.pl?mo=0&bk=jbp1&fm=16&to=30)
Would you look at this again and see if this is something that you could do?
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Sure, I will take a look at it and try to write a conversion script.
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Thanks.
I think that you could delete romaji; it is a bad crutch.
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Thanks.
I think that you could delete romaji; it is a bad crutch.
I agree with you that romaji should not be used. I prefer to keep it though for the sake of other people who think differently.
Here are the Japanese for Busy People and Japanese Now! glossaries. Others will follow.
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Here is the last glossary: Japanese for College Students: Basic.
For the Nihongo Shoho glossaries, it will take more time. As stated in a previous message (a few months ago), I had already began to convert them from a different source (which provided the words in English and Spanish) but it is a tedious and time-consuming task that cannot be fully automated. I will try to put some time on it every week to get over it.
The other glossaries listed on the kahome website are redundant.
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Are you talking about our discussion in Nov. 2007 (below link) or have you found other sources?
https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...mp;#entry170720 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16606&st=120&p=170720&#entry170720)
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Are you talking about our discussion in Nov. 2007 (below link) or have you found other sources?
https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...mp;#entry170720 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16606&st=120&p=170720&#entry170720)
Yes, exactly.
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Has anyone else encountered this? When I try to install any version of toMOTko on either my 3100 or my 3200, I get an Install Error: "This package seems to depends [sic] on other packages. Please install them, too." An icon appears in the Applications after the attempted installation, but it won't launch. Both Zauri have their original Sharp ROM, and other packages install fine. Any ideas? I feel I must be missing something boneheadedly obvious...
Nick.
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Have you tried installing the package (libz_1.2.3_arm.ipk) that tomotko depends on?
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ckage_id=256145 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531&package_id=256145)
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Have you tried to install the package (libz_1.2.3_arm.ipk) that tomotko depends on?
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ckage_id=256145 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531&package_id=256145)
Well, I did say I was missing something boneheadedly obvious! Thanks, kurochka - it now works perfectly, and I'm checking out your wonderful glossaries right now... This is a really great project - thanks to Frederic and all who've helped make it possible!
Nick.
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Great! I am glad that I could help.
Enjoy the tomotko!
When Frederic finishes the port to QT4, we will be able to use tomotko on Linux and Win machines. Yey!
Does anyone know if a QT4 application will run on Android (there is a craze about it now) and Maemo (e.g., N810)?
In any case, I think once there is a QT4 port, we need to start a promotional campaign to advertise tomotko to language learners.
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I think there might be a bug/problem with 0.11. I uninstalled the 0.10, installed 0.10. I didn't notice any recompilation of the study lists. When I tried to start a quiz, there was a request whether I wanted to resume the old one. Whether I said yes or no, the application would shut down.
A friend of mine had the very same problem today. Using his data, I could reproduce the problem and fix it. At the same time, I fixed another bug that could crash the application when invoking the Search Tool. I will release version 0.11.1 shortly to close these 2 issues.
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Thanks, Frederic. It is heartening that you are still working on this nice program. Any news about porting tomotko to QT4?
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Thanks, Frederic. It is heartening that you are still working on this nice program. Any news about porting tomotko to QT4?
Still working on it. Lately though, I didn't have much time so it goes rather slowly. My goal would be to release a first version working on Windows in January (or December maybe). It's already working well enough but the devil is in the details (as they say...) So there are still some bugs to fix and some polishing to do. I would say that it's more than 80% complete.
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Would anyone be interested to test a prerelease version of toMOTko for Windows, please PM me.
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At last, toMOTko 0.11.1 for Windows (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/tomotko/toMOTko-0.11.1-Setup.exe) is available. Should work on your desktop, laptop, and hopefully, on smaller devices too.
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toMOTko 0.11.2 (https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=181531&package_id=210341&release_id=664921) has been released.
I ported the application to Linux and Christian Varga translated it in German. It contains also some minor bug fixes.
And finally, I changed the poll (http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/) on the website.
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I'm working on the port of toMOTko to Windows Mobile 6 Professional. I managed to compile and build the application and it works fine in the emulator. The problem now is that I don't have any devices running this operating system so I don't know if it really works. If anyone is willing to test the appllication on his device, please PM me.
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A port of toMOTko for Windows Mobile 6 Professional (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/tomotko/toMOTko-0.11.2-WinCE-WM60Pro.zip) has been released.
I haven't tested it personally but some users told me that it works. If anyone could try it and provide me some feedback and screenshots, it would be nice.
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I am considering what mobile device will be my next choice. Of course, I will want to have tomotko on it.
Currently, I am thinking of either Android-based or fully fledged Linux.
By the way, I have a N95 Nokia that uses Simbian. Is it too hard to port tomorko to that platform?
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I am considering what mobile device will be my next choice. Of course, I will want to have tomotko on it.
Currently, I am thinking of either Android-based or fully fledged Linux.
IIRC, Android is java-based so that implies a complete rewrite of the application. If your phone is based on Linux, most likely that you will be able to install Qt and run toMOTko.
By the way, I have a N95 Nokia that uses Simbian. Is it too hard to port tomorko to that platform?
According to this article (http://www.nokiausers.net/General/Nokia-Qt-4.5-Qt-Creator-Released.html), it would seem possible to port toMOTko on N95. I would need to port the application to Qt 4.5 first, and then, cross-compile it for the Nokia.
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Just to let you know that toMOTko is now avaible for MacOS (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/tomotko/toMOTko-0.11.2.dmg).
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Does anyone know if a QT4 application will run on Android (there is a craze about it now) and Maemo (e.g., N810)?
Hi Kurochka,
I installed the Maemo SDK a few hours ago and managed to build toMOTko and it runs in the emulator. It's not perfect visually but it runs well enough to be usable, I think. Of course, I don't know if it will work the same on the real device but hopefully, it will. I don't know yet how to package the application to distribute it. I will let you know when I have some new info.
Bye!
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Anyone having a Maemo-compatible computer/phone/tablet could try to install these toMOTko deb files and report whether or not it works?
http://www.fbergeron.com/tmp/tomotko-0.11.2-1maemo1_i386.deb (http://www.fbergeron.com/tmp/tomotko-0.11.2-1maemo1_i386.deb)
http://www.fbergeron.com/tmp/tomotko-0.11....aemo1_armel.deb (http://www.fbergeron.com/tmp/tomotko-0.11.2-1maemo1_armel.deb)
Thanks.
Edit: You may have to install these required dependencies beforehand, from the extras repository :
libqtcore4
libqtgui4
libqt4-xml
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I have uploaded toMOTko for Maemo in the extras-devel (diablo & fremantle) repository. Anyone can report whether it works fine or not please. Screenshots would be very appreciated.
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Sorry. I've been missing in action. I'll test and report.
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It works on N810 but I have not yet tried running it with glosssaries.
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It works on N810 but I have not yet tried running it with glosssaries.
So far, I've been told that the Preferences screen is too small and should be maximized. If you see any other improvements, let me know.
Concerning the import/export feature for glossaries, some people reported that it works fine.
The next version (for the Zaurus) will have 2 new features: SuperMemo-2 algorithm for Quizzes and a Character Viewer.
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Frederic, it's offtopic in this thread, but do you know of any recent/good EPWING readers for Linux? There is a good multiplatform QT-based dictionary program (GoldenDict) that supports a number of dictionary formats but unfortunately it does not so far supports EPWING. Could you code EPWING support for GoldenDict?
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPWING (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPWING)
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I really have no idea. And, no, sorry, I have no time to work on GoldenDict for now.
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After running toMOTko on my N810 for a while, I can confirm that everything works. As has been reported, the preferences window is almost unusable (I had to select the smallest font to see anything on the last tab in preferences - it is the most problematic tab).
This is very exciting because now I have almost all necessary (for me) software on my N810. The only missing piece is EPWING viewer but I will be asking around. I may even consider getting the just-announced N900 when it starts shipping.
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After running toMOTko on my N810 for a while, I can confirm that everything works. As has been reported, the preferences window is almost unusable (I had to select the smallest font to see anything on the last tab in preferences - it is the most problematic tab).
I think that it will be usable if the screen is maximized. If it's not enough, I may have to change the layout a bit. I hope I won't have to do that though. I would really appreciate it if you could send me screenshots of the application (especially for screens that are too tight) so that I can get a better idea. I would like to see all the tabs of the Preferences window and also the revealing sequence editor (in the Quiz tab of the Prefs window, if you click the + button. It's seldom used but I'm curious to know if it looks good or not. I'm also interested in the Quiz window. Well... That's most of the screens actually :-)
This is very exciting because now I have almost all necessary (for me) software on my N810. The only missing piece is EPWING viewer but I will be asking around. I may even consider getting the just-announced N900 when it starts shipping.
That's good. So I guess you will stop (or already have stopped) using your Zaurus then.
I also think that time to use another device is coming soon. The Zaurus is still not bad but, at last, interesting alternatives are appearing. I'm still not decided to buy the N900 though. I'm going to wait some more. As long as my Zaurus is alive, I'm in no hurry.
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I'll do the screenshots but first can I confirm the default font size at least for labels? I presume you want to see screens with the default font sizes.
I do use zaurus but not as often. It used to me the only device for my needs but now ... I have Kindle DX for reader, N810 for GoldenDict, N95 for lots of stuff.
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I'll do the screenshots but first can I confirm the default font size at least for labels? I presume you want to see screens with the default font sizes.
Good idea, yes, take the screenshots with the default font. I have no idea what it is though. Clicking Reset should revert to the default font, I think.
I do use zaurus but not as often. It used to me the only device for my needs but now ... I have Kindle DX for reader, N810 for GoldenDict, N95 for lots of stuff.
You're fully equipped. 8-P
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let's see if I can add all the screenshots.
er, I'd love to replace all these gadgets with just one device plus a dedicated reader. DX is fine.
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Nice screenshots! Thanks.
It's certainly too tight to be usable. Is the Quiz and Glossary Manager also as tight as this? If so, I think the application must not be very "fun" to use. Is there no way to trigger a full-screen mode when using an application on Nokia's device? I think I've read something about that somewhere (like here (http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/2671/nokia_n800_hide_web_browser_toolbar_full_screen_mode/)).
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Here are some more. It's highly usable whether in full screen or not. The preferences window would not go into full screen. I don't know why. so the problem is only with preferences and even then I was able to do with it what I needed.
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Thanks again for these additional screenshots. I think it looks very good in full-screen mode. For the Preferences window, I will fix it in the week-end if I have time.
I noticed that the progress bar in the Quiz is missing. Could you tell me if it's visible or not when you use the Quiz in normal mode (not full-screen)?
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I noticed that the progress bar in the Quiz is missing. Could you tell me if it's visible or not when you use the Quiz in normal mode (not full-screen)?
No, it's not there.
The menu strip is done differently in Maemo (it's a pull down menu hidden in an icon - see the glossary management screen above - the one that is not in the fullscreen mode). The progress bar appears to be in the same row on my Zaurus. On Maemo it is absent. I wonder if it's because of differences in how the menu strip is displayed.
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Maybe in another version, I will try to make a special case for Maemo and display the progress bar somewhere else. It's no big deal anyway. Thanks for the quick reply.
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A new version of toMOTko for Maemo is available for tests in the extra-devel repository. The Preferences and other utility windows (like Search and Edit Term windows) should be maximized. In the emulator, I cannot see whether it works or not.
@Kurochka: When you have time, could you try it and tell me if it's better. Of course, if you can submit screenshots, that would be even better.
Also, could you also try this: Apparently that clicking on the link corresponding to your distribution, with your Maemo device, that the application should install itself.
diablo (http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/tomotko.install)
fremantle (http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/tomotko.install)
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I'll test on diablo this weekend. Oh, so you've been able to put it into the depository. Nice.
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The N810 informed me that there is an update for toMOTko and I was able to update to the latest version without a problem. However, nothing has changed. At least I can't see anything different. So, I haven't taken any screenshots.
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The N810 informed me that there is an update for toMOTko and I was able to update to the latest version without a problem. However, nothing has changed. At least I can't see anything different. So, I haven't taken any screenshots.
That may explain why I could not see any difference either in the emulator. I'm positive though that I put some instructions to maximize the Preferences window. They are probably ignored by Maemo somehow. Hmmm... I will investigate some more on this and let you know if I find anything new. Thank you for testing it.
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I've uploaded another version. By the time you read this message, it should be available in the repository.
This time, I can see that the Preferences Window is full-screen even in the emulator. So this time, it should work.
I have another thing I would like you to test in this version. If you make a Search (in the Edit menu), can you show the Search Dialog full-screen? And if so, is there anyway to close the window when it is in full-screen?
Also, you mentioned that the N810 informed you that there was an update of toMOTko. Was it automatic or did you have to open the package manager to receive the notification? I ask out of curiosity.
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Ok. I've installed the new update and run it through its paces. Yes, the Preferences Window is fullscreen and it cannot be made less than that by the dedicated screen-resize button (I guess it's hard-wired now). I do not see this as an issue.
The Search function works well but it cannot go into fullscreen mode. There is an additional problem. If the previous window (typically, Manage Glossaries) was in fullscreen mode, then I select Search, and minimize the Search window by tapping a minimize widget, I am stuck at the fullscreen window and there is no way to get out of it without rebooting the device. I presume that this is because the controls are still associated with the search window that has been minimized.
The same problem happens with the main Quiz window in fullscreen, and the edit window that is minimized. The reboot is required to get out of this too.
Maemo includes an update widget that from time to time checks for updates (similar to Windows and Linux). However, I do not know how often it checks for updates. This time it did not show an available update but I was able to update by following the link you've given above.
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Ok. I've installed the new update and run it through its paces. Yes, the Preferences Window is fullscreen and it cannot be made less than that by the dedicated screen-resize button (I guess it's hard-wired now). I do not see this as an issue.
Good.
The Search function works well but it cannot go into fullscreen mode. There is an additional problem. If the previous window (typically, Manage Glossaries) was in fullscreen mode, then I select Search, and minimize the Search window by tapping a minimize widget, I am stuck at the fullscreen window and there is no way to get out of it without rebooting the device. I presume that this is because the controls are still associated with the search window that has been minimized.
The same problem happens with the main Quiz window in fullscreen, and the edit window that is minimized. The reboot is required to get out of this too.
That was expected for the Search Window not to be "full-screenable".
For the other issue, I will make sure that the dialog windows are not minimizable. Usually, the dialog windows are used for a short actions (like performing a search, changing a preferences setting, or edit a term) so I think it should be a problem to do so and it will prevent the issue to happen if I understand correcly.
I will release a next version shortly to this effect.
Thanks for you precious help. I know how time-consuming and bothering it can be.
Maemo includes an update widget that from time to time checks for updates (similar to Windows and Linux). However, I do not know how often it checks for updates. This time it did not show an available update but I was able to update by following the link you've given above.
It seems to be well done.
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If you prevent Search and Edit dialogs from getting minimized, then it would fix this issue. Even now it is unlikely that somebody would minimize those dialogs, although it is better to fix this.
As you know, Nokia is introducing new Maemo device - N900 smartphone that has a different size screen and the new Maemo version. It remains to be seen how popular it becomes.
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Frederic,
Here is an interesting candidate for a multilingual glossary for toMOTko: http://www.iespravia.com/inmigrantes/idiomas/Diccionario.xls (http://www.iespravia.com/inmigrantes/idiomas/Diccionario.xls)
Is it possible to put all of the languages into one study list and then select the needed pairs in the Glossary Management window?
The words are divided into categories. I guess the categories could go into the notes section or maybe we could subdivide the list into separate glossaries based on the categories.
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Frederic,
Here is an interesting candidate for a multilingual glossary for toMOTko: http://www.iespravia.com/inmigrantes/idiomas/Diccionario.xls (http://www.iespravia.com/inmigrantes/idiomas/Diccionario.xls)
Is it possible to put all of the languages into one study list and then select the needed pairs in the Glossary Management window?
The words are divided into categories. I guess the categories could go into the notes section or maybe we could subdivide the list into separate glossaries based on the categories.
Indeed, I could create interesting glossaries from that file.
Yes, it's possible to include many languages into glossary files. When you import such files, you will be asked to check the languages that you want to retain. The corresponding data will be extracted and imported. You can keep all the languages if you want. Then, using the language selectors, you will be able to study the language of your choice.
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A new version should be available by the time you read this. To prevent minimizing some windows (like Search Dialog), I show them in full-screen. There seems to be no easy way to remove the minimize button from a window on Maemo. Tell me if it's better like that.
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Frederic, I am so sorry. I've totally forgot about one other hardware key on N810 that allows to see all running windows, appilcations. It's something I rarely use. With this key it is possible to get out of the minimized-active-dialog-window problem.
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Frederic, I am so sorry. I've totally forgot about one other hardware key on N810 that allows to see all running windows, appilcations. It's something I rarely use. With this key it is possible to get out of the minimized-active-dialog-window problem.
Yeah, I've heard about that key. I don't know if it's guaranteed to be available on all Maemo devices so it does not hurt to be proactive and make the application easier to use. For example, on the emulator, the window switching key is not available (or if it is, I don't know to which key combination it is mapped). So I would ask you to test the latest version one more time (hopefully the last one). If you don't see any other important issues, I will promote the application for the extras repo (the non-devel one). I've never done that before but I think it will make the application easier to get for normal users. Once that is done, I can fully concentrate on version 0.12.
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It works well. I do not see any other issues. Thank you once again. If I get N900 Ill let you know how it looks on it. Its hardware and software are different.
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Kurochka,
Someone reported that, on Maemo version, the default fonts are too small. Could you confirm please? I would be curious to know which fonts you are using for labels, fields, and language-specific ones: name and size. Should I increase the font size range?
Also, could you tell me what the usual keyboard accelerator for quitting an application on your Maemo device? Apparently that CTRL+Q doesn't work. Would you have better suggestions for default accelerators for the other actions in the context of Maemo?
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Kurochka,
Someone reported that, on Maemo version, the default fonts are too small. Could you confirm please? I would be curious to know which fonts you are using for labels, fields, and language-specific ones: name and size. Should I increase the font size range?
Also, could you tell me what the usual keyboard accelerator for quitting an application on your Maemo device? Apparently that CTRL+Q doesn't work. Would you have better suggestions for default accelerators for the other actions in the context of Maemo?
Sorry for the delay.
The fonts I use are: DeviceSymbols (large for Labels and Very large for Fields).
I am not sure for the accelerators. The only I use are: a for "correct answer"; w for open field; d for wrong answer.
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I am not sure for the accelerators. The only I use are: a for "correct answer"; w for open field; d for wrong answer.
Could you tell me if other toMOTko accelerators work on your Nokia device, especially those involving CTRL key. For example, CTRL+P should open the Preferences window, CTRL+M should invoke the Glossary Manager if it's not already visible, CTRL+S should start a quiz.
BTW, Happy New Year 2010 to everyone!!
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I am not sure for the accelerators. The only I use are: a for "correct answer"; w for open field; d for wrong answer.
Could you tell me if other toMOTko accelerators work on your Nokia device, especially those involving CTRL key. For example, CTRL+P should open the Preferences window, CTRL+M should invoke the Glossary Manager if it's not already visible, CTRL+S should start a quiz.
BTW, Happy New Year 2010 to everyone!!
Happy New Year to you too.
Now that you mention it. I tried the CTR+ accelerators and they do not work. Hmm.
By the way, my wife has given me N900 for Christmas. I've installed toMOTko on it but have not yet figured out how to transfer glossaries. Thanks! The USB connection to PC freaked out on me. I'll report on my progress.
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Now that you mention it. I tried the CTR+ accelerators and they do not work. Hmm.
Is the problem there on both of your Nokia devices?
It would seem that this bug is caused by the implementation of Qt I'm using. It should be fixed when Qt-4.5 is released for Maemo. Don't know when though. I may also need to customize (or hildonize as they say) the application for the accelerators to work (or just simply remove some of them as it's apparently recommended not to use keyboard accelerators for Fremantle apps).
In case someone cares, more details can be found here:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7600 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7600)
http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance...motko/0.11.2-9/ (http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/tomotko/0.11.2-9/)
By the way, my wife has given me N900 for Christmas. I've installed toMOTko on it but have not yet figured out how to transfer glossaries. Thanks! The USB connection to PC freaked out on me. I'll report on my progress.
Nice present! I wish I had one.
I'm not sure that toMOTko will be usable on N900 because of the keyboard accelerator bug that seems to prevent CTRL+Space to switch input language. Or maybe you can switch input language in a different manner using the pointing device????
Import/Export features should work but I'm curious to know how it went in your case.
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I am travelling. So, won't be able to look closer at this for some time.
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toMOTko for Maemo Fremantle looks awful and is unusable at the moment. I'm working on hildonizing the interface. You can follow up my progress on toMOTko's blog (http://sourceforge.net/apps/wordpress/tomotko/).
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For N900 users, I have released tomotko 0.11.2-9fremantle1 in extras-devel repository. It's not completed yet but it's functional enough to be used. Feedback is appreciated.
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Since last December I have resumed working on version 0.12 of toMOTko. I'm wondering if there are still any toMOTko users left that are still using the application on the Zaurus? If so, please show me a sign of life (either via this thread or PM me).
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I'm interested in your new version.