OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: antikristian on March 03, 2006, 07:30:23 pm
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Why is this? Why does Opie exist? why do projects use opie instead of qtopia?
Is this a licensing issue? do people just want to play with the system or what? I am starting to bleive that none of the routes taken by the diffrent roms are correct. I belive that we would be much better of if we just installed debian on all the diffrent handhelds and made qtopia, opie, qpe and maemo debian projects.
The new nokia seems to me to be the furure of linux handhelds, at least the strongest candidate aas of now. So make everything compatible with that one, and try to get the guis into debian.
So, what is wrong with qtopia? I'd like to have the choice of running qtopia on a nokia 770, but I do not want to end up with the Zaurus incident all over again.
What would be the problem with this? Space restrictions?
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is opie not in debian? gpe is. the problem would be gettin the developers to abandon their projects and become debian maintainers for a bunch o different bits o hardware. looked at the other way.... I think pdaxrom supports .debs maybe some kind of version (pdax > debian) matching info would be handy. Of course, it might already exists. pgas would have way better info on this, I expect.
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yes, it seems so. And it would be hard to get qtopia into the deian feed due to licensing I think (isn't mysql not prfered by debian due to dual licensing?) But anyhow, extending the debian arm port would be a great solution.
To avoid another rom for the zaurii, it probably would be a great idea to work on getting pdaxrom to be completely debian compatible so that most or all packages came directly from the debian feed (except the kernel and root filesystem set up on diffrent storage media for each device) and were possible to update and install through a debian mirror.
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Why is this? Why does Opie exist? why do projects use opie instead of qtopia?
http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi...pie?action=show (http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/WhyOpie?action=show)
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Thank you!
Do advancements in qtopia get included into opie (like safari and konqueror?) Like the qtopia 2 series improvements, or why not?
Why are applications not compatible? Do the opie team put any effort into comaptibility at this point?
I read at hentges site that opie development or something made opie a bad candidate for basing a rom project on. Is this true? why is this?
Sorry to bother you all with these questions, but I find this very interesting:)
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Why are applications not compatible? Do the opie team put any effort into comaptibility at this point?
There're two versions of GCC compiler (2.95 and 3.x). Many applications which don't work on Opie use gcc 2.95. Opie use gcc 3.x. If you want run some of this applications you can use sharp-compact-lib
I read at hentges site that opie development or something made opie a bad candidate for basing a rom project on. Is this true? why is this?
I don't know the answer. Can you post the link of the 'new' at hentege?
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Thank you!
Do advancements in qtopia get included into opie (like safari and konqueror?) Like the qtopia 2 series improvements, or why not?
Why are applications not compatible? Do the opie team put any effort into comaptibility at this point?
I read at hentges site that opie development or something made opie a bad candidate for basing a rom project on. Is this true? why is this?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Both safare and konqueror aren't part of qtopia and have never been. Also note that the term ROM only applies to the sharp stuff, almost every other project uses writable images.
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Thank you!
Do advancements in qtopia get included into opie (like safari and konqueror?) Like the qtopia 2 series improvements, or why not?
Why are applications not compatible? Do the opie team put any effort into comaptibility at this point?
I read at hentges site that opie development or something made opie a bad candidate for basing a rom project on. Is this true? why is this?
Sorry to bother you all with these questions, but I find this very interesting:)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Some things from Qtopia do get put into Opie.
Compatibility is probably more something like semi compatible. There are a few changes in Opie's that make it difficult, but not impossible to compile and run qtopia apps against it.
Then there is the difference between sharp rom qtopia apps made with gcc2 and oz apps made with gcc3 softfloat.
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Why is this? Why does Opie exist? why do projects use opie instead of qtopia?
http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi...pie?action=show (http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/WhyOpie?action=show)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Those condescending opinions at the bottom are not shared by all opie developers.
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I guess the person who started this topic wants to know-
"If you can run pdaxrom in zaurus. why not debian? opie makes no sense to me at all."
And you want to know somthing? I'm with this guy. kubuntu and ubuntu is basically debian. Debian is free. Why not in zaurus? It would be very compatible between 2 devices like pc and zaurus running debian. Makes very sense. Opie? How many people are working on this anyhow? One person on pdaxrom...and debian....tons of people
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You know there is an embeded ubuntu project. They are creating an arm port of ubuntu compiled on qemu. I run ubuntu on my all my pcs (I even dual boot it on my mac) i think it would be great to have it on my C1000. On my old x86 laptop i run openbox and rox, same as my zaurus. I wish i ran the same adressbook apps so I could just cp the data files back and forth. Yhere is also a ubuntu light version coming out. The two projects together might make an awsome pda rom. Of course i speak as a user. i have no idea how ubuntu on the Z would be to develop for.
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Both safare and konqueror aren't part of qtopia and have never been. Also note that the term ROM only applies to the sharp stuff, almost every other project uses writable images.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=116975\")
If you want to get technical, ROM only refers to the class of chip, regardless of the filesystem on it.
Development of jffs2 made writing to a ROM chip more easy.
[a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory[/url]
So, unless you are speaking in the strictest of terms, all handelds have 'rom' chips.
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Thank you!
Do advancements in qtopia get included into opie (like safari and konqueror?) Like the qtopia 2 series improvements, or why not?
Why are applications not compatible? Do the opie team put any effort into comaptibility at this point?
I read at hentges site that opie development or something made opie a bad candidate for basing a rom project on. Is this true? why is this?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Both safare and konqueror aren't part of qtopia and have never been. Also note that the term ROM only applies to the sharp stuff, almost every other project uses writable images.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Sorry about that, safari uses the khtml engine from konqueror, so the konqueror team impliments the changes back when the source is released. So I was wondering if opie did impliment the changes from qtopia into opie to avoid reinventing the wheel and keep opie compatible and equaly advanced. Lpotter answered that one
Also Cresho pretty much wraps my opinions up nicely. I do like the qtopia/opie GUI but opie has allways let me down, and I have never been able to make a usable setup on my zaurus with it.
I feel that there is a whole lot of work beeing done twice in the linux-handheld world, and much of it can only be used on one specific brand of device. now with the new nokia, the archos, zaurii, ipaqs, yopy and tons of cellphones, there needs to be done something so that what you create for one device isn't totally useless on all the others...
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So, what is wrong with qtopia? I'd like to have the choice of running qtopia on a nokia 770, but I do not want to end up with the Zaurus incident all over again.
What would be the problem with this? Space restrictions?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
some people have been working on qtopia for nokia 770.
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I guess the person who started this topic wants to know-
"If you can run pdaxrom in zaurus. why not debian? opie makes no sense to me at all."
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116993\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
because debian is created for a desktop machine, with lots of memory, hard drive space and screen realestate.
cant run much debian on 32 mb
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Nice Do you know if they plan on using a new image with qtopia or debian packages? Is it at all possible to do this, so that all you would have to do was to add a new feed and apt-get ?
mimeca: hentges' blog here (http://blog.hentges.net/?p=48)
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even though one could for instance have an "install profile" for the amount of memory you had installed so you only got packages you needed, it would still be nice to have thousands of packages to chose from:)
I ran debian on my nslu2 266mhz 32mb ram disk server a few weeks back. Although I had plenty of hard drive space and ran ssh only (did plan for vnc or something with x, but did not get that far), it still is pretty close spec-wise to my zaurus. and it did run a debian system fine, with the option of installing tons of official debian packages on my will.
Maybe later on, when all handheld devices have plenty of storage and a screen equal or better to the 770 we might see such an initiative to make handheld linux as easy as desktop linux.
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one think makes Debian not well suited to PDA enviroment: disk space usage and many dependencies.
Debian base system contain many packages, takes lot of space so it is hard to fit in 14, 30, 53 megabytes which Zaurus machines has for rootfs. Ofcourse you can resize Flash partitions to get more space, you can install software on SD or CF card but all of it takes lot of space - more then distros created directly for PDA devices.
Look at Emdebian - Debian for embedded devices (like pda etc) - they already found that big packages and lot of deps are not something which is good for target devices...
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How is the 770 doing this? is it a real debian system?
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How is the 770 doing this? is it a real debian system?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The consumer image isn't, the developer image is. All this info is on maemo.org, btw
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I think at this point, Waiting for the new zaurus will decide where this thread is going to head towards.
how about 256mb internal memory? 512?
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two things,
the version of qtopia that ships with the Zaurus is archaic, ie, its very old and doesn't support a lot of the newer qtopia features.
debian does already work on the Zaurus, ie PocketWorkstation. It does not run "natively" because nobody has taken the time to package it up as a flashable image yet. PocketWorkstation does not have its own kernel so it cannot be booted directly right now. Also, since it uses glib 2.3.2, most of its packages can not be installed directly to most Zaurus distros because most of them still use glib 2.2.x. I believe OpenZaurus uses glib 2.3 as well, but I am not sure since I have not used OZ yet.
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HRW's reply contains most of the objections I expected from the dev community (people with lots of exterience putting linux on tiny devices). I guess the best way to evaluate the issue would be t talk to people who run pocketworkstation from pdaxrom or gpe (native xserver should make things about as fast as possible) things like the amount of storage debian consumes, and the large number of packages installed to fulfill dependencies,etc should be measureable. performance is a bit subjective.. but maybe we could get some ideas for conversation? anyone want to run a chroot Pocketworkstation as their sole "Rom" (barring games and mplayer)for awhile for the sake of discussion?
Ironically, while I think Hrw probably has a point, in the respect of version control and hardware universality, OZ is in many ways a step in the direction the post describes.
I'd absloutely love ubuntu on my c3100 running xfce or a tweaked fvwm. Of course, I love pdaxrom on my 3100 now
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Also note that desktop distros aren't designed to be installed in flash, so they will do a lot of writes and will wear out your flash pretty quickly. In OZ we have /var and /tmp in ram and symlink stuff /etc/resolv.conf to /var/ as well.