OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: mclar22 on April 11, 2006, 05:16:45 pm
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Hi
I'm a college student at Louisiana state university, and I've been in school almost an entire year without getting a computer. I've always planned on eventually getting a laptop, but I've had a hard time finding exactly what I want. I want an Ultra-ultraportable laptop and I think I may have found this in the Zaurus. I'll be going to japan this summer and I've begun to seriously consider picking up a Zaurus while I'm there. I want a device that will allow me to check my email, listen to internet radio (BBC), and surf the internet. Will I be able to do this on a Zaurus? I don't care if it's super fast, but I also don't want it to be as slow as the nokia 770 that I got a chance to try at compusa. So how is it's browsing speed? I'm not a big computer person, and I have no idea how to program. Will I have a hard time using a Zaurus? I have looked over the steps needed to convert it to english and it really doesn't look very difficult. Where should I get my Zaurus in Tokyo and will the power adapter work in the US? Please tell me anything else I need to know about buying a Zaurus in Tokyo. One last thing, does the Zaurus ever run warm or let off any strange odors? I hate laptops that run warm.
Thanks,
Matthew
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yes, you can stream internet radio, listen to mp3s on flash memory cards, surf the net at reasonable speed, use a SIP VOIP phone (but not skype), etc.
you can use bluetooth networking, wifi (802.11b only, with WPA if needed), use a GPRS data card, dialup over bluetooth via 3G or GPRS phone
you can run a web server, compile C/C++, write in java or perl or python or shell scripts
it's largely limitless what you can do, it's really down to the effort you're willing to put in and what will run in the memory space and a VGA screen!
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This may not be a very popular response around here, but if you don't already have computer I wouldn't really recommend trying to use the Zaurus as your "laptop." It can certainly take the place of a laptop in many situations, but I personally would never consider choosing the Zaurus instead of an actual computer, especially for someone in school. Plus, you don't sound like you're the most technically minded person in the world (forgive me if I'm wrong), and the Zaurus does require a bit more tweaking than many other PDAs or computers.
You should also consider the fact that you will need to get, at the very minimum, a Wi-Fi card and a memory card of some kind for backups. This can bring the price of the Zaurus well into the range of a low end laptop (if not an ultra portable).
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I'm interested in the Zaurus because I have a feeling that if I get a full fledged laptop I'll find myself spending more time playing games than doing homework. The Zaurus is apealing because it's small, relatively inexpensive, and I don't have to worry about playing games on it. The university I attend has a great number of public computers that I can use if I need to- I just see the Zaurus as a way to get the internet into my room- and therefore reduce the ammount of time I have to spend on public computers.
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I'm interested in the Zaurus because I have a feeling that if I get a full fledged laptop I'll find myself spending more time playing games than doing homework. The Zaurus is apealing because it's small, relatively inexpensive, and I don't have to worry about playing games on it. The university I attend has a great number of public computers that I can use if I need to- I just see the Zaurus as a way to get the internet into my room- and therefore reduce the ammount of time I have to spend on public computers.
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It sounds like a big factor in your decision is size. What's the absolute largest size that you can tolerate? If you are willing to go as large as a sub-notebook, then that will open up other options. One of which is getting old(er) equipment from eBay, and then loading a snappy version of Linux on it. I'm doing something similar... I have the Zaurus for when I am truly mobile (walking, waiting for buses etc), and a sub-notebook for when I am more stationary (e.g. cafes, library, room). If you are primarily going to use the machine in your room, with only occasional true mobility, then a sub-notebook may be a better choice.
Cheers,
Randall.
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I'm interested in the Zaurus because I have a feeling that if I get a full fledged laptop I'll find myself spending more time playing games than doing homework. The Zaurus is apealing because it's small, relatively inexpensive, and I don't have to worry about playing games on it. The university I attend has a great number of public computers that I can use if I need to- I just see the Zaurus as a way to get the internet into my room- and therefore reduce the ammount of time I have to spend on public computers.
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wrong...you have tons of games and turbografx, snes nes emulator.
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I'd say it depends on what you want to get done with it. It is fussy to set up, X applications are ridiculously slow, and you'd better have good eyes to read the websites you surf to (or put up with magnifying and scrolling). On the other hand, it is something you can have no matter where you go, no small thing.
The 100v adapter works in the US, although a few people might dispute that. But it appears to be settled. The English conversion I don't know about, mine was already done. It does not run warm that I can tell, and (without the hard drive or keeping the internet connection going, so I hear), the battery lasts very long.
Right now mine is sitting on the shelf, because I grew frustrated with trying to get it to do what I want it to (run a spreadsheet). But I'll probably take a crack at it again in a while. Bottom line, if you have to depend on it for time-critical work, don't. The investment of time to get it set up is substantial, unless perhaps you are a true linux guru.
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I'd have to agree with the majority of replies thus far ... the Z, even the latest models, is not really a replacement for a PC, whether desktop or laptop. It is a useful adjunct, lots more useful than a conventional PDA. The keyboard, the memory, the choices of operating systems, are all plusses; it can be a little awkward to use in some settings, however, especially with a CF wifi card sticking out the right side of the keyboard!
Its surfing speed depends on the speed of the connection. 802.11b connectivity is up to 11 Mbps, as fast as any normal Ethernet connection. The clamshell Zs all have ~400 MHz processors, faster than my old Dell desktop.
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Zaurus cannot replace your laptop. Using it as PDA is too costly. You might want to think of using it as your reference machine, whereby you can store your html docs and personal data on the move.
Of course, MP3 player is one of the most important feature you need in Zauraus. Unlike iPod, you can swap your CF or SD with MP3 songs at ease. You also can view mpeg coded movies in high capacity CF drive.
We might want to consider to partitoin the discontinued Apple G4 Powerbook (12" LCD) into two drive, one is running Mac OS X and the other Linux. This might address your interest in Linux and make full use of Mac OS X for your study. To me, this way is the best cost effective for student.
Ideally, I hope that Apple will introduce smaller LCD MacBook in due course. With that, one can have 3 OSes, namely Mac OS X, Linux and Windows, installled. By then, you should limitless application for such a machine.
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..... listen to internet radio (BBC)....
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If you are talking about radio.bbc.co.uk then you may want to note that the streams offered by the BBC are Real Player format and unless you can work out how to download them and play them using mplayer or transcode them in some way this isn't going to be a simple task.
-Andy
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Of course, MP3 player is one of the most important feature you need in Zauraus. Unlike iPod, you can swap your CF or SD with MP3 songs at ease. You also can view mpeg coded movies in high capacity CF drive.
I don't mean to derail the discussion, but this is a pretty bizarre criticism of the iPod. I think most people would consider having all of your music in one place (on a 30-60GB hard disk) to be much more convenient than using CF or SD cards (and ultimately more cost effective as well, if you buy a lot of memory cards).
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Of course, MP3 player is one of the most important feature you need in Zauraus. Unlike iPod, you can swap your CF or SD with MP3 songs at ease. You also can view mpeg coded movies in high capacity CF drive.
I don't mean to derail the discussion, but this is a pretty bizarre criticism of the iPod. I think most people would consider having all of your music in one place (on a 30-60GB hard disk) to be much more convenient than using CF or SD cards (and ultimately more cost effective as well, if you buy a lot of memory cards).
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Yes and the video quality is actually pretty good off the new 5G iPods... I just bought one and love it
-Andy
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[span style=\'font-size:30pt;line-height:100%\']YES![/span]
any other questions answered free of charge. Best thing is you have this AWESOME community here!
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I'd say it depends on what you want to get done with it. It is fussy to set up.... Bottom line, if you have to depend on it for time-critical work, don't. The investment of time to get it set up is substantial, unless perhaps you are a true linux guru.
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hmm. maybe I'm a guru
hmm. yes, actually, I've also spent a LOT of time experimenting with my Z - perhaps a third of the time setting things up and trying them out, a third using it, and maybe a third (if that) actually writing software for/on it. however, being a sysadmin/programmer/netadmin I consider a lot of that as an investment in my personal development.
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I use my Zaurus 3100 for daily organisation, reference and typing documents. It is far more usable than any other PDA and I think it makes a good replacement for a laptop.
It is not blindingly fast, but I think it is better than a laptop for 2 reasons:
- size... try putting a laptop in your pocket!
- battery life - I get two days of use of a charge
I use a 3g phone and a bluetooth card to access the web and even in Australia, I can get about 35kB/sec. I also have a wifi card for home.
There are some things that are just unique about the zaurus, the keyboard is very usable and you can run just about any program if you tweak a little. For instance, I run an html indexing program called htdig and the apache web server so that I can search my local html files.
A bit of linux knowledge is a plus, but with such a great community and prepared installations/roms it's not too hard to get going with it.
Also, it integrates well with your desktop OS and the web browsing is quite usable, especially with custom designed browsers like opera.
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If all you really want is to surf the web and listen to music then I'd reconsider the Nokia 770. It can admittedly be a little slow, but the latest flash image has sped it up significantly and Nokia are working to improve things afaik.
The Nokia has the added advantage of a larger screen (makes a difference), but has no keyboard which may be an issue for you (bt keyboard is an option, but still not as good as a built-in).
The Nokia is also cheaper than a Zaurus and is supported.
With all that said, I'm not a total convert - I don't like the semi closed kernel and closed source apps & utilities, but this sounds like it may not be a problem for you.
Si
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Hi Mathews,
short answer: I don't think the Zaurus is what you are looking for. I love my Z but I'm not recommending it to anyone who doesn't absolutely want a linux computer in his pocket.
longer answer: Z hardware (and software) can porbably do what you expect once set up properly. You do need another computer to make full use of your Z, preferably linux with root access, but any will do if it offers:
* card reader (or USB mass storage support and cheap USB card reader)
* is on a network the Z can connect to (ethernet or wireless or internet but avoid NAT/VPN)
* ssh in/out
* reliable storage (for flashing, flash backup)
I want a device that will allow me to check my email, listen to internet radio (BBC), and surf the internet. Will I be able to do this on a Zaurus?
You can do that, but whatever software you use it will not be the same as on a laptop/desktop. The 640x480 screen is tiny, it won't feel like an old PC with a VGA monitor. Browsers lack features or they will be slower or both.
Will I have a hard time using a Zaurus?
Yes. Maybe not depending on what type of a user you are. I'm pretty sure on this one: A Zaurus user will either use only a small fraction of what's possible with a Z or have a hard time learning to use it. The Sharp software (or Cacko -- its improved English variant) offers what you asked for and it is designed for people who are not linux users (says "Windows XP" recommended on the packaging). It should work more or less out of the box but you can't expect support, software upgrades, documentation, etc from anyone (You may ask here, of course). The alternatives are better, I think, but ATM also harder. Developers/Users are helpful but documentation is still lacking.
Will the power adapter work in the US? One last thing, does the Zaurus ever run warm or let off any strange odors? [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122718\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
There are lots of power discussions on this forum. Sharp sells a wolrd voltage adapter which should work. The Z doesn't run warm or smell while using it, however while charging mine gets slightly warm (not bothersome).
One more warning: The zaurus is the perfect toy. You will play around with it. (I count this as a pro but decide yourself.)
I read your post because I'm about to about do the same thing:
I have an (old not-so-fancy) desktop at home and I have accounts for university (linux) computers. I never bought a laptop because I think it looks pretty ridicoulus when students sit uncomfortable on the floor with computers on their laps. I can live without a PDA, though I miss my broken Vr3 a lot. Choosing a portable computer is a tough question, a laptop which can fully replace a desktop or workstation (like for hours of working, running abitrary software) is hardly portable and will ruin your back. Then, even the smallest PDAs have more processing power than the casual user would ask for (assuming highly optimized software which is usually not the case), but size (not only resolution) does matter.
Unlike you I'm kind of a computer guy and I'm moving to Vienna for some research work -- without any computers except for my Z. I'll use the Z (C860 w/ OZ/GPE) for email, internet, storage of all the things that I should have memorized but haven't and maybe more (LaTeX and programming). Point is -- I'm not convince everything will work the way I expect it to...
If you do still want a Zaurus and if you can invest the price and some time, consider the Zaurus an option.
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Thanks for all the advice. I am some what of a computer person, and I have run linux on a desktop in the past, but I really never learned how to work the terminal-
I just used the GUI. I'm also considering getting an ultraportable laptop. The only thing is that they're very expensive and are really overkill for what I'd be doing. Any advice? Someone mentioned a getting a used ultraportable, but I don't know much about getting used gear.
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Here's my 0.02:
Get a used laptop. If you get one old enough you won't want to run fancy games on it. Put a light weight linux distro on it such as DSL. Check out this article for another student's perspective: My desktop OS: Damn Small Linux (http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/10/199237)
I'll bet you will find yourself wanting to work on a research paper (either typing or surfing for references) in your dorm room. A larger screen and keyboard will make this a more efficient experience. Being a student -- you'll want to maximize your efficiency.
You may think you just want to surf the net now for leisure, but you may find yourself needing other stuff down the road. I think for the vast majority of us, while we love our Z's, a desktop/laptop is still needed.
WRT to the Nokia 770, it is great for surfing the net and the 800 wide screen is great -- but if you want to do anything other than surfing you may become quickly frustrated -- especially if you need a built in keyboard or more than 1GB of local storage.
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I think that the Zaurus works great as a laptop replacement. I've had to carry laptops for past jobs, and found that they were too big, took too long to boot, had weird, uncomfortable input devices like touchpads, and those little finger pointers.
By comparison, the Zaurus easily fits in your pocket. It's instant-on from the suspended state, and what can be more natural than a touch screen? Oh- and there's the swivel screen on the clamshell models that seems to be an expensive option for laptops.
However, it's not so good as primary computer. I can still do much more, much faster on my desktop. Also, I do consider myself to be a Linux guru, and I still had some trouble with the Zaurus in the beginning-- though the biggest problem is lack of good documentation.
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The zaurus will use up your time as much or more than anything else you might buy. It is a terrific device- I use mine for surfing, writing the occasional short letter, email, that sort of thing. I also spend a lot of time playing music and video on it. There is a variety of very absorbing games, from doom and quake to freeciv, cards and snes. But more, it is insanely configurable, does incredible and etihcally questionable (if you are that sort) network stuff, and, as has been said, can communicate with your cell phone..or other pda.
The price of this is a steep learning curve and what amounts to an addiction to this forum. Besides that, you will also spend endless hours flashing to try new roms, trying to get odd bits of hardware and software working, and fixing stuff you broke while experimenting. You'll learn a great deal, and have fun doing it, but it is NOT a time saver unless you have tremendous self-control and subnormal curiousity.
As a "student"device.... it can be done. The software is good enough (you can even use open office) but the screen is pretty small. I would much rather write a large paper on a 12" or larger screen (ok..maybe 9 in a pinch) than on the 3.7 - 4 inch zaurus screen. I think I'd get more accomplished with less anguish on serious writing assignments with more screen. Maybe you should stop by compusa again and see if you could stand wring and editing hour after hour on the nokia 770 screen. That would give you a feeling of what staring into a zaurus for hours might feel like.
My "solution" would be the Z as a portable and some kind of cheap/free old desktop with DSL or other "light" distro( a pentiumII 400 would be fine)with a decently large (80g?) hd and a 15"-17" crt monitor in your room...with a printer attached. You'd have the Z on the go.... and a nice useable work/print station with plenty of storage for extended work sessions and media storage..
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hmm if you want to use it as a leisure device - surfing, email checking and that multimedia stuff and not instead of a PC to do the school homework.. then i think it may do the job... ok, not sure about the multimedia, i've never tried that (heh i should at least see what video is like on my c760)
i'm a student myself but use my pda's not so productively, just to enjoy stuff hehehe.
never used linux before, got the zaurus because i fell in love with the hardware & design when i had the chance to see it in real life and not just in a picture.
it can do most of the stuff i do with my other, windows CE based pda's which is really amazing to me, and some stuff is done even better on the zaurus, wow. but for example don't expect a complete navigation solution..
CE based pda's (mainly pocketpc's) do have much more support but no such lovely design or linux. i didn't get it for the linux though but was curious and i'm not disappointed
oh and the keyboard is surprisingly good for its size! don't forget the native vga either.
problem is the 3,7" screen. i swear if it were 4,0" it would be a lot more comfortable staring at it (i have 4,0" VGA pda's too). but it is manageable and the point for me is to use it anywhere as it is so small.
disagree with some of the opinions here, for example it wasn't such a steep learning curve for me and i have never installed other roms other than cacko, as i'm not a linux guru and don't miss the slow X apps any more anyway (found everything for qtopia too since then).
i wasted a few hours or days to get everything working (got even a new phone to get gprs going lol, it was time for that too anyway), but not weeks! just days.
so if you want it for (some of) the things mentioned above (design, hardware, keyboard, screen or linux) you'll not be disappointed. if you just want a pda to surf on etc maybe think a little more about other choices too.
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- I'm with adf ... Z for "normal" use, dirt cheap desktop with some Linux distro to go with it. I have a P-]I[ 1Ghz that I got for free, and it runs FC4 only a little more slowly than my P-4 2.26Ghz runs Winsuck XP "Pro". In fact, it's what I'm typing on right now, so it's perfectly useable. (wide grin)
- You can pay for the Z, and scrouge the desktop. You could even get the Z first, and just keep your eyes open for an old PC, setting it up when you find it, if you don't mind going that route. As mentioned, you won't be playing many games on a PC that old, unless they're also old games, and with Linux, you won't be getting many Winsuck games, anwyay. (grin)
- While I never sync or do anything like that with the PC, it is very nice to have one around. I can move backups off the SD and keep them on the desktop. I can ssh into the Z when it's gone wonky (because I reconfigured it wrong) and try to correct it. I can ssh in the Z and do command-line things in a full window instead of using the admittedly tiny screen. I can archive ipks on the desktop. It's just really convenient to have one. But unless you're doing something that requires a lot of resources, you certainly won't need anything significant, by today's standards, as the "companion" PC.
- You may not like this, mclar22, once you've put it all together, but it sounds like you may. You're not liable to find this much computing power in such a tiny space, anywhere, but as mentioned, it's still not quite ready to completely replace a desktop. When it's powerful enough to run X at some semblance of speed, one could get away with a Z and a "dumb" X terminal, but that's not quite a reality AFAIK. Soon!
- Such is my half-nibble...