OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Sharp Zaurus => Zaurus - pdaXrom => Topic started by: jchung on February 24, 2004, 04:55:06 pm
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I just check their site.
http://www.pdaxrom.org/index.php?showid=8&menuid=11 (http://www.pdaxrom.org/index.php?showid=8&menuid=11)
is this the latest ROM?
http://www.pdaxrom.org/downloads/pdaXrom-240204.zip (http://www.pdaxrom.org/downloads/pdaXrom-240204.zip)
does it have the fix for the calibration for C700?? if so then I\'m definitely flashing to it! :shock:
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Judging by the file name, it\'s a new version, packaged today!
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I just found the announcement here:
http://www.pdaxrom.org/newshistory.php?menuid=7 (http://www.pdaxrom.org/newshistory.php?menuid=7)
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WOOHOO!
I just need a kernel..
what kernel are you guys using?
I need one for C700
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impressive, I\'m getting ~100k transfer from the new site - congrats guys on the new setup!
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It boots fast, and I like the text login default. Having problems networking though, won\'t recognize my Wi-fi connection
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WOOHOO!
I just need a kernel..
what kernel are you guys using?
I need one for C700
No you don\'t, the Cacko installer has the kernels in the tools.tar file and flashes it as part of the install.
It boots fast, and I like the text login default. Having problems networking though, won\'t recognize my Wi-fi connection
I had the same experience, doesn\'t recognize my WiFi card, also doesn\'t seem to see my SD card either. Hopefully their feed will get uploaded soon, qpackager is set to look at www.pdaxrom.org/feed. Nothing there yet...
Cheers,
Jerry
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Here are some minor troubles I\'ve seen so far:
1. the power button on the back doesn\'t power off the unit, you have to use the on screen menu to suspend it
2. if you try to power on the z via the power button on the back, it just flashes on for a sec then suspends again (I think). but if you power it on via the home key, it works fine.
3. the active tasks folder acts a little strange... when you enter the folder, the \'back\' icon flashes a few times, and the z is unresponsive. after about 5 seconds, it returns to normal.
4. after installing apps (abiword for example) via the package manager, the list of \'installed\' remains empty, even after installing apps
also, just an observation... the window manager doesn\'t act the same as the old one... ie. when minimizing apps, they don\'t become icons on the desktop, but icons in the active tasks folder
other than that... it\'s pretty cool so far!
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hi, for setup WiFi/Nic card use Lan utlity in System Tools folder,
if your cards not recognized,
run in terminal:
cardctl ident
and copy info in this thread, so i will see what cards you use.
-- sashz
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Hi sashz
One that works:
product info \"D-Link\" \"DCF-660W\", \"\"
manfid: 0xd601, 0x0005
function: 6 (network)
One that does NOT :cry:
product info: \"Socket\" \"CF+ LP WLAN Card Rev A\" \"1.00\"
manfid: 0x104, 0x0001
function: 6 (network)
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One that does NOT :cry:
product info: \"Socket\" \"CF+ LP WLAN Card Rev A\" \"1.00\"
manfid: 0x104, 0x0001
function: 6 (network)
I get the same with my Socket card too, doesn\'t work.
My SMC card returns: Socket 0:
product info " ", SMC2642W 11Mbps Wireless CF Card", ""
manfid:0xd601, 0x0005
function: 6 (network)
WEP is working. Although the LAN applet doesn\'t have key length selection, my 128 bit key is working fine. The internet feed is working (sorry about previous post) instaling apps now as I type.
Other issues noted:
1. as Offroadgeek noted - power off button in back doesn\'t work, once when suspended (via the menu) I tried the power button in back, it flash briefly, then wouldn\'t turn back on with either the Home key or power button, had to reboot via battery removal.
2. While on battery mode inserted my SMC WiFi card and screen backlight went one notch dimmer, power/light applet unable to make brighter. Plugged AC in, screen remained dim, opened power/light applet backlight returned to higher setting.
3. Wireless monitor in panel doesn\'t seem to work (or at least appear)
4. the QtConfig is too big to fit screen.
Sashz: What happened to the 3-button mouse? No longer needed?
Love the text login and quick boot!
Cheers,
Jerry
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For SD card issues, make sure to install the SD card ipkg.
LD
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For SD card issues, make sure to install the SD card ipkg.
LD
Thanks, now I can see my SD now.
I\'m very impressed with the new ROM, but crap, there goes my learning curve again! Now that I\'ve gotten pretty good at navigating the convoluted symlinked world of QtPalmtop, Sashz has returned the file structure to a more standard Linux mold (a good thing indeed, but now I gotta figure out where everything is again!) Thank god for Midnight Commander!
This ROM is going to require a few how-tos. A few things I\'ve learned so far:
There is a package in the feed xmonobut that gives the 3 button functionality I asked about above. It places an icon on the task bar that toggles the mouse buttons.
The feed is setup similar to Proto\'s tKc ROM feed, you have to be requesting the file name to download the files, you can view the Package list by going to http://212.192.116.30/pdaXrom/feed/Packages (http://212.192.116.30/pdaXrom/feed/Packages) Unfortunately, the exact file name is not in the Package list. So until www.pdaXrom.org posts the ipks, it\'s a tedious process if you want to create a local feed on your cf, sigh..
Well, back to exploring the ROM...
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Well, gotta get to work now play time is over..
Last notes -]I have found difficulty in installing large apps, abiword & konqueror. Not sure why they failed, but once they do, ipkg keeps tying to install them. At first I was able to edit the status file in /usr/lib/ipkg/ and remove the offending reference, but now I\'m getting a \"no space left on device\" error.
df -h shows:
dev/mtdblock2 25.0M 25.0M 0 100% /
none 12.0M 28.0K 12.0M 0% /dev
dev/mtdblock3 32.0M 620.0K 31.4M 2% /home
Apps I\'ve successfully installed are:
sd-module
mc
glib
xmms
gtk
mad
tremor
xmonobut
Is it possible that all of those app took up only 620.0K?
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Up your NAND to 50MB. You are out of root space.
LD
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Up your NAND to 50MB. You are out of root space.
LD
Yikes, this ROM really does usher in a new phase! :shock:
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how does that work with the nand, is everything in x11rom installed in the nand?
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Hi all,
where can i get the SD ipkg?? cos the zaurus cant recognise the SD card.
TIA.
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Hi all,
where can i get the SD ipkg?? cos the zaurus cant recognise the SD card.
TIA.
You need to get your WiFi connection going. I recommend not using the qpacker GUI because if there are problems you have no way of answering ipkg\'s yes/no prompts. Use the terminal instead: ipkg update
ipkg install sd-module
Otherwise, you\'ll have to wait for pdaXrom.org to have the ipks on their site. Alternately, you could try my method posted above, look at the Packages text at http://212.192.116.30/pdaXrom/feed/Packages (http://212.192.116.30/pdaXrom/feed/Packages) and try to guess the file name. The good news is Sashz seems to be pretty consistant in his naming conventions so try copying sd-module_1.0_armv5tel.ipk after feed/ in your browser\'s URL and hit enter. Just tried it and it works
As for upping my NAND to 50mb, not so much . Wouldn\'t boot, tried 48mb, no go, then 45mb which worked. Now have been able to install abiword & konqueror-embedded. Discovered in order to see the icons for the apps needed to reboot.
Is there a way to log out of the X GUI instead of rebooting?
Also suspend seems to be problematic, suspended with the menu, then powered back up with the Home key, but digitizer was unresponsive, the pointer moved to where the stylus touched but couldn\'t get it to activate anything.
This ROM really make the Z a real linux machine, though. You can use the terminal at login with out the X-server running. I rebooted with my WiFi card in and noticed that the LED was blicking after I logged in as root. Ran iwconfig and sure enough I was connected to my network. Pinged my desktop and all was good. Ran a few more terminal commands, then started the X GUI, very cool.
Cheers,
Jerry
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how does that work with the nand, is everything in x11rom installed in the nand?
There is a menu that you are presented when you flash the ROM called Resize NAND. Just click the option and type in 50. Afterwards, you will need to reflash the unit.
LD
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HELP!
I have a problem,
I copied the 3 files included in the pdaXrom-240204.zip:
initrd.bin
tools.tar
updater.sh
to the CF in my sl-c700
I followed the instructions in the Documentation part in the www.pdaxrom.org:
remove the battery for 5 secs
plug in the Ac power
press and hold the Ok button
turn on the power button
see the japanese service menu
select option 4 (flash update)
select option 2 (CF)
I get a japanese warning screen
I choose Y
the machine reboots
THe instruction says that you have to choose option 5 \"flash repartition\", but the option 5 in my sl-c700 have \"NAND Flash Resize\" ( I select this 5 anyway).
a screen appears asking me the new root partition size in MB (25 default) the instructions in cacko site says that 30 for the sl-c700/750 so I enter 30 and press enter.
the machine seems to reboot
then a little pinguin appears on the scrren upper left corner and a prompt (init-2.05b#) appears too.
I don\'t have x window I don\'t have a great deals of commands, I can\'t do anything..
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login as root and then type startx (followed by enter) to start xwindows
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u might want to actually flash the rom, from your info above it seems you may not have actually flashed after resizing the nand..
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>Thank god for Midnight Commander! <
Hey guys, which version are you using? Did you install some glibs?
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I don\'t even have a login !
I just have the init-2.05b# prompt
and yes I rebooted and reflashed the ROM but wverything is the same, I have the penguin and the init-2.05b# prompt, no Xwindow, no usbnet!!!!
please help me !!!! :cry:
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can you get back to the service menu? You can always reflash if you can get back to this!! If you can\'t then it gets scary!
ad
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fixed pcmcia cf list for owners:
Socket CF+ LP WLAN Card Rev A 1.00
BUFFALO WLI2-CF-S11
http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/pcmcia-fix_1.0....0_armv5tel.ipk (http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/pcmcia-fix_1.0_armv5tel.ipk)
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I don\'t even have a login !
I just have the init-2.05b# prompt
and yes I rebooted and reflashed the ROM but wverything is the same, I have the penguin and the init-2.05b# prompt, no Xwindow, no usbnet!!!!
please help me !!!! :cry:
run
startx
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I don\'t even have a login !
I just have the init-2.05b# prompt
and yes I rebooted and reflashed the ROM but wverything is the same, I have the penguin and the init-2.05b# prompt, no Xwindow, no usbnet!!!!
please help me !!!! :cry:
What did you set your NAND size? Which Z do you have? A little more info is required for better help. I had the same happen no big deal, just resized to a smaller NAND size, reflashed and then got to the login.
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i dont think he flashed the unit, i think he just resized the nand. Try option 1 on the rom install menu..
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I\'m having another problem now, I reflashed last night and the sl-c700 don\'t turn on, I just have the mail light blinking... I connect the AC power and only get the battery and mail blinking, I did some research and I afraid the unit is \"bricked\" any Ideas? I can\'t get to the the service menu... :x
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who is this guest that keeps posting?! :shock:
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impressive, I\'m getting ~100k transfer from the new site - congrats guys on the new setup!
I was getting ] 600KB/sec when I grabbed a few items. Nothing like the 5KB/sec when
grabbing the 89MB SDK! (pain!)
Scott
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Results from \"cardctl ident\" for pdaXrom (not Working)
Pharos PE-CF100 Ethernet Adapter
product info: \"Fast Ethernet\", \"CF Size PC Card\",\"1.0\"
manfid: 0x0149, 0xc1ab
function: 6 (network)
Socket 56K CF Modem
product info: \"Socket\", \"CF+ 56K Modem\", \"\", \"\"
manfid: 0x0104, 0x0144
function: 2 (serial)
Thanks Sash for the great work!
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who is this guest that keeps posting?! :shock:
Sorry I didn\'t had a registered user...
I am the one having the problem first with the flash pdaxrom and now with the bricked sl-c700... :cry: what I can do?
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eject battery , disconnect PSU, insert battery, lock cover, connect PSU,
press and hold OK.
Run installer and resize root partition to 50 MB, than after rebooting, run installer again and flash rom, than format user flash and reboot
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eject battery , disconnect PSU, insert battery, lock cover, connect PSU,
press and hold OK.
Run installer and resize root partition to 50 MB, than after rebooting, run installer again and flash rom, than format user flash and reboot
And don\'t forget to push the power on while holding the OK.
Deathlog_ Since you\'ve got a C700 don\'t rezise to 50mb they recommend 30mb for 700/750 although I was able to get it to work fine with 45mb NAND. From what you describe, hard to imagine you\'ve bricked your Z. Take a deep breath, check to make sure you\'ve got the battery in correctly, locked the battery cover (I\'ve given myself a few heart attacks, when my Z wouldn\'t flash only to find I\'d forgotten to lock the battery cover). Repeat all of the steps slowly & carefully. Good luck!
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eject battery , disconnect PSU, insert battery, lock cover, connect PSU,
press and hold OK.
Run installer and resize root partition to 50 MB, than after rebooting, run installer again and flash rom, than format user flash and reboot
Thanks
I will do that after I discover how to unbrick my sl-c700! because it can\'t power on just those mail and battery light blinking...
please help me with this brick thing!!!!!
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can anyone tell me where to get the SDK to
compile my own programs?
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http://22-DEC-2003@zaurus.spy.org/feeds/ca...sdk-1.0.tar.bz2 (http://22-DEC-2003@zaurus.spy.org/feeds/cacko/pdaXrom/pdaXrom-sdk-1.0.tar.bz2)
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I have the same problem as DeathLog. (well, the earlier problem, before brickage...)
I got my C860 yesterday. Got my 256mb CF today. Did a NAND backup to the CF, the tried flashing.
The 02-24 pdaX release: regardless of partitioning, everything appears to succeed (although differing from instructions) but when restarted (with or without full powerdown in the middle) all I get is the Tux logo from the kernel, and it goes no further.
The 02-17 pdaXtest release: Everything appears to succeed, but when restarted this one too just shows me a cute little penguin and nothing more, ever.
I can restore my NAND backup and it works fine, and I\'ve done so between several (but not all) reflash attempts. I\'ll keep trying and post any interesting results here.
j
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please help me with this brick thing!!!!!
2 suggestions. First is to try removing power and battery and waiting several minutes, then reinserting and trying powerup. Second is to see if you can reach the service menu. reinsert power cord and battery while holding down D and M and you should get in. DON\'T DO ANYTHING in these menus AT ALL unless you are quite certain what you are doing. However, as long as you can reach this menu, your machine can be \'unbricked\' at home by restoring a NAND backup from your or another C700.
(hmmm - /me wonders about just getting a NAND backup from a C700 with the X11 ROM installed and running... )
j
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Flash Update.
I restored NAND backup again, and immediately flashed X11. At first I thought I was at the same situation, but after a minute I got my login prompt.
j
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Thanks for the great work everyone!
Here is the cardctl ident for my (nonworking) wireless card.
product info: \"The Linksys Group, Inc.\", \"Wireless Network CF Card\", \"ISL37300P\", \"RevA\"
manfid: 0x0274, 0x3301
function: 6 (network)
Sue
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http://22-DEC-2003@zaurus.spy.org/feeds/ca...sdk-1.0.tar.bz2 (http://22-DEC-2003@zaurus.spy.org/feeds/cacko/pdaXrom/pdaXrom-sdk-1.0.tar.bz2)
ah, excellent, thats what I needed.
once this is set up, and I have run the shell script,
is that all I need? a quick \"make\" on a simple program would do it?
if anyone can post a summary of what they typically do
with parameters \"./configure\", I\'d be very grateful.
Sebastian
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It\'s alive!!!! It\'s alive!!!!!
I used the recover.zip mentioned in http://externe.net/zaurus/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96 (http://externe.net/zaurus/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96)
You need to download the zip for the sl-c700 (you need to select the one for your specific machine) from http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/ (http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/)
follow the steps in the readme.txt and you can unbrick your unit!!!
voila!!!! my sl-c700 is back in business!!!
Thanks to all for your support!
I don\'t have the brick problem now,
but I still have the problem with the installation of the new pdaXrom
I just installed the cacko rom before this new pdaxrom and is working fine (I fixed the calibration problem of course). but I want to have the last version..
any ideas? :roll:
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hi guys,
I had flashed to the pdaX rom... but i am facing some problems here and pardon me for asking stupid questions...
(1) there is no internet browser in the pdaX rom, so how do i install or get any internet browser??
(2) me SD card is not recognised by the Z, any way i can go about this problem??
(3) after i installed the pdaX rom, i cant do normal syncing with the desktop thru the USB. so anyone can help on that??
(4) i dun haf a wireless network, so i think the only to get packages into my Z is thru USB syncing, and now i cant get it to sync with my desktop, so i am stuck with a very capable rom but without any programmes in it. can anyone help??
TIA.
choonhow.
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hi guys,
I had flashed to the pdaX rom... but i am facing some problems here and pardon me for asking stupid questions...
Using the Search feature or reading the this entire thread could answer your questions.
But in the defense of newbies (of which I count myself), pdaXrom might want add a readme.txt with the ROM. Also they might want put a note on the download ROM page to check the FAQ section for details on how to use the ROM.
Anyway choonhow, you need to download the SD-module and browser from the feed onto your desktop then you should be able to connect to your Z via ftp and copy the ipks over to install. (I think you have to have created a password for root for ftp to work) passwd root whateverpasswordyouwant
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http://22-DEC-2003@zaurus.spy.org/feeds/ca...sdk-1.0.tar.bz2 (http://22-DEC-2003@zaurus.spy.org/feeds/cacko/pdaXrom/pdaXrom-sdk-1.0.tar.bz2)
ah, excellent, thats what I needed.
Sebastian
Hmmm. btw: the 22-DEc is just my lame way to try to put the last time I verified a link
into the system without it being hidden (white on white?) etc. Unfortunately, opera
seems to be cranky about user:pass in urls... I\'ll probably move to white on white.
Anyway, the user:pass certainly isn\'t needed on any of the urls from zaurus.spy.org
and certainly not for access to any dirs under that top level, etc.
Scott
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here\'s comes a stupid question, but how do i access the programs after i minimize them? i minimized xmms and then i couldn\'t find it again same with xmahjongg? is there a button i need to press or something? sorry guys.
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here\'s comes a stupid question, but how do i access the programs after i minimize them? i minimized xmms and then i couldn\'t find it again same with xmahjongg? is there a button i need to press or something? sorry guys.
Click on the first folder on the top left side of the screen.
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fixed pcmcia cf list for owners:
Socket CF+ LP WLAN Card Rev A 1.00
BUFFALO WLI2-CF-S11
http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/pcmcia-fix_1.0_armv5tel.ipk (http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/pcmcia-fix_1.0_armv5tel.ipk)
It didn\'t work for my BUFFALO WLI2-CF-S11.
Is there anything required after installing the ipk?
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here\'s comes a stupid question, but how do i access the programs after i minimize them? i minimized xmms and then i couldn\'t find it again same with xmahjongg? is there a button i need to press or something? sorry guys.
Click on the first folder on the top left side of the screen.
ah, but when I do this (9 times out of 10?) the icon start flashing like I\'m constantly
clicking... it\'s like it\'s \"jammed on\" ...
I kind of liked the icons of rox... on the desktop... vs the same looking icons of matchbox.
but perhaps that\'s just a setting/config somewhere.
Scott
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fixed pcmcia cf list for owners:
Socket CF+ LP WLAN Card Rev A 1.00
BUFFALO WLI2-CF-S11
http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/pcmcia-fix_1.0_armv5tel.ipk (http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/pcmcia-fix_1.0_armv5tel.ipk)
It didn\'t work for my BUFFALO WLI2-CF-S11.
Is there anything required after installing the ipk?
restart your Z or by hands:
/etc/rc.d/init.d/pcmcia restart
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Hi Jerrybme,
Thanks a lot for your help.
Choonhow
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what about por linksys wcf12 owners?
is there any hope for this abandoned card?
Scott
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Does anyone know if the C700 calibration problem is ok on this new rom\'s kernel? The overclocked kernel in the last release blew up the touchscreen driver on the C700. If the new release\'s kernel does not account for this, can we use sushoki\'s kernel again for this release?
Thanks!
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I\'m not sure if this has been asked, but is the cacko team still going to develop the x11 rom? While the pdaXrom is very nice it just doesn\'t have the same xwindows feel that the x11 rom does. It feels more like an alternative to QT, like OZ is.
I really didn\'t keep pdaxrom installed long enough to give it an honest evaluation though. I\'m a socket wifi card user and the patch crashed on me whenever I tried to install the ipk. Not sure why... I\'ll try it again on the next release.
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I\'m not sure if this has been asked, but is the cacko team still going to develop the x11 rom?
I talked to sashz and he says no, Cacko are dropping support for non-pdaX ROM\'s altogether. He also said that they will move all the current X11 ROM apps to the pdaX ROM.
If you have a bug problem please come to #cacko on irc.freenode.net
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Cool, thanks for the info Fox
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what about por linksys wcf12 owners?
is there any hope for this abandoned card?
Scott
The WCF12 works out of the box (at least for me).
It uses the orinoco drivers though.
Bebe
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I reinstalled the rom and gave it a closer evaluation. This sucker is fast! Once you get used to suspending/unsuspending the way it wants you too, get your WiFi card working, and install the sd-module I think it is very smooth. The speed of this rom is great
The only real bug I have seen so far is the one with the Active Tasks folder, but I doubt that will keep me from using it.
Did I say that it is fast? Fast!
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huh? pdaXrom is X11... are you asking about the differen\'t window manager?
see: www.xwinman.org
IMnsHO, X11 just isn\'t or wasn\'t... designed for 320x240 ... sure, 640x480 is nice, but when you\'re talking about
pda size pixels vs normal monitors, etc, X11 still isn\'t designed for small screens.
Some of the window managers attempt to deal with this -- matchbox is one of those. Of course, the box is
a PDA, and some people want to actually use it as a PDA... and matchbox seems to be a decent choice. If
you want to run another window manager, I\'m sure it would work. Of course, what happens with a set window
manager is that there is the ability to integrate things such that an install of a program creates an icon, etc.
It\'s difficult to make a program install and integrate with many different managers, etc.
The functionality of the old X11 rom will move over to the new rom. Yes, it is annoying to have window managers
and back end change so often, but once it does stabilize, the development speed is unsurpassed.
Scott
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] X11 still isn\'t designed for small screens.
thats true, but since i replaced the original pencil with a tooth-stick it actually works quite well
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Anyone able to get their Socket card working with the PMCIA fix instaled? My cardis still not being recognized.
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The fix didn\'t include the socket card (I unpacked it to check) It has got the buffalow card added. I added the Socket card manualy but it still comes up as unrecognised. after reboot.
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I talked to Sashz on irc earlier today, he said he would work on the socket card.
I\'ve also installed the crystal icon set and it some how fixed the active task problem.
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] X11 still isn\'t designed for small screens.
thats true, but since i replaced the original pencil with a tooth-stick it actually works quite well
I use a papermate pencil... the orange one. sometimes I write with the lead to kind
of shape/sharpen it. I can put the lead away, but then it\'s less accurate. The lead seems to be soft enough.
Scott
ps: ya, \"graphite\" ... anyway.
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I talked to Sashz on irc earlier today, he said he would work on the socket card.
I\'ve also installed the crystal icon set and it some how fixed the active task problem.
I also installed crystal -- and the active tasks seems less annoying now.
I wish that was available via the applet bar!
Also, I once has the applet \"launcer\" menu come up in its own stand alone X window... sashz says m* says \"odds\" ... ya, odds... ya, broken. wifi applet doesn\'t like to come up, etc.
we also need a way to select middle/right button VIA KEYBOARD. I think sash will work on that.
Scott
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The fix didn\'t include the socket card (I unpacked it to check) It has got the buffalow card added. I added the Socket card manualy but it still comes up as unrecognised. after reboot.
Even the Buffalo card isn\'t working for me after the fix. Anyone here with a Buffalo card managed to get it working?
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Don\'t forget you can use alt+tab (Address+tab) to task-switch like in Windoze
I\'m quite fond of the kids icon set. I love vibrant colourful things. I will talk to sashz about the second / third button change, I think I could port my old script to change the screen tap button by pressing one of the japanese keys, more details on that later (I\'ll make it a seperate post).
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Guest^
I\'ve got a buffalo card and installed the pcmia card fix via a CF card, as I didn\'t have networking (forgot about USB :-). It works flawlessly for me, sorry to hear you have problems. If you want someone else to test combinations etc post and I\'ll try for you.
On a side note has anyone figured out how to keep the time working properly after pulling out power/batteries? or leaving X?
Chris
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Results from \"cardctl ident\" for pdaXrom (not Working)
SanDisk Wireless Ethernet Adapter
product info: \"SanDisk Corporation\", \"Wireless LAN Card\",\"\"
manfid: 0xd601, 0x0005
function: 6 (network)
Great work!
greets from germany
Denis