OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Sharp Zaurus => Zaurus - pdaXrom => Topic started by: omro on May 29, 2006, 04:41:54 pm
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Hi All
What's the main benefit of pdaXrom vs OZ/GPE?
They are both X11 based, as I understand it, both seem clean and quick.
Which, if any, is better and why?
I know this is all perception, but I'm curious what the perception is.
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Hi All
What's the main benefit of pdaXrom vs OZ/GPE?
They are both X11 based, as I understand it, both seem clean and quick.
Which, if any, is better and why?
I know this is all perception, but I'm curious what the perception is.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128820\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have also thought about the same question.
I have found the following differences:
- pdaXrom is using the Flash rom on the C3100 - the others dont
- there is much more software available (without the need to compile) for pdaXrom
- the forum (here) is much more active on pdaXrom
- OE appears to be somewhat more stable - however I hope the pdaXrom will soon be close
As a conclusion I decided for pdaXrom... and I enjoy playing with beta 4
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- there is much more software available (without the need to compile) for pdaXrom
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128822\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
*cough*
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Well I know that pdaXrom is still in beta and it's undergoing a rapid evolution.
The GPE implementation on OZ seems pretty slick and fast to me, abiword seemed a little more responsive and I know that pdaXrom is having some bug issues - understandable, but GPE seemed a little less buggy.
This said, I've used pdaXrom longer than GPE.
Would love to get Meanie's OpenOffice working on OZ/GPE to compare, but it didn't want to work :-(
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Hi All
What's the main benefit of pdaXrom vs OZ/GPE?
They are both X11 based, as I understand it, both seem clean and quick.
Which, if any, is better and why?
I know this is all perception, but I'm curious what the perception is.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=128820\")
I think I can try to answer this; it''s basically a question of what the software is based upon, because the two systems are radically different, yet quite the same.
What's the same? The ultimate goal of both is to deliver a Linux PDA environment to the Zaurus (well, OpenZaurus I guess could do more).
What's different? The software that the build systems are based upon is rather radically different. The OZ/GPE stuff is based upon a system that (last I looked) was based upon a Python program. The PdaXrom is based entirely on make(1), and on various makefiles. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Look, the entire post here is, I hope you realize, my own opinion, so I hope I don't outrage anyone, and the rest (with that caveat) ....
OE/GPE is backed by a fairly large group of programmers, but they're often rather prickly to get along with, if you make any statement that might be construed as less than wild approval of their work. PDAXrom is based (also, the last time I looked) really by only one person, who goes by the handle of Sashz, and could (in the past) be a little hard to get in contact with. The PDAXrom stuff is based upon a system that has a bit smaller codebase, and is easier to figure out (at least, it was easier for me). The last time I look at the code for OE/GPE, is was rather fragile, but you could do it yourself, and make your own fixes. The PdaXrom code was a lot more difficult to get hold of, and there is no cvs archive, never has been. I know, I tried once to get him to establish one, but he resisted. So, the OE/GPE code is more publically accessible, but harder to get your arms wrapped around (least for me). I better admit here, I know make pretty well, but I also know Python (what they are each based upon, OE/GPE==python, PdaXrom==make). I think the make scripts are of a simpler level.
If you want to learn more about PdaXrom, I strongly recommend you go look at [a href=\"http://www.pengutronix.com/events/index_en.html]http://www.pengutronix.com/events/index_en.html[/url], because while OE/GPE is based upon a self-mainted set of python scripts, pdaXrom is based upon the Penguintronix build system.
I will make an offer here, which I don't expect I will find much support for, I just hope that it doesn't create too much flames:
Anytime someone can get at least 4 programmers together who will contribute, and I volunteer right now to provide an archive for PdaXrom. I would have, in the recent past, said cvs, but now, I tink I would want to make it subversion. Doesn't matter, i have the disk, the bandwidth, and the willingness, should I find the volunteers. If Sashz wanted to, I would let him control it, if (and only if!) he will entirely, 100% stop any work outside of the archive, no more separate releases whatsoever, no excuses, none. It's either something we all can have fun with, or I won;'t have to do with it.
That's it, enough to get me into trouble, probably.
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- there is much more software available (without the need to compile) for pdaXrom
- Your kidding right?
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Well I know that pdaXrom is still in beta and it's undergoing a rapid evolution.
The GPE implementation on OZ seems pretty slick and fast to me, abiword seemed a little more responsive and I know that pdaXrom is having some bug issues - understandable, but GPE seemed a little less buggy.
This said, I've used pdaXrom longer than GPE.
Would love to get Meanie's OpenOffice working on OZ/GPE to compare, but it didn't want to work :-(
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Abiword is more responsive on GPE? For one, I didn't know it existed on GPE. I used OZ/GPE last year and found that noticably lacking.
But why the urge to use OO? I find that Abiword, on my Z or my desktop, to be so much more responsive that I never use OO. And as far as spreadsheets go, gnumeric is the standard now, IMNSHO.
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Well I know that pdaXrom is still in beta and it's undergoing a rapid evolution.
The GPE implementation on OZ seems pretty slick and fast to me, abiword seemed a little more responsive and I know that pdaXrom is having some bug issues - understandable, but GPE seemed a little less buggy.
This said, I've used pdaXrom longer than GPE.
Would love to get Meanie's OpenOffice working on OZ/GPE to compare, but it didn't want to work :-(
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Abiword is more responsive on GPE? For one, I didn't know it existed on GPE. I used OZ/GPE last year and found that noticably lacking.
But why the urge to use OO? I find that Abiword, on my Z or my desktop, to be so much more responsive that I never use OO. And as far as spreadsheets go, gnumeric is the standard now, IMNSHO.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I use open office on a PC and a Mac and in our office, using open office file formats. To have openoffice on the Z would be fantastic, because then I don't need to convert my files into other formats for abiword to read. Last time I looked, admittedly a long time ago, abiword doesn't support open office formats, neither does gnumeric (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Also, when looking at a file in abiword vs openoffice, the text is actually larger and more readable in openoffice, don't ask me why, just seems that way.
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Also a major thing I've just noticed.
pdaXrom vs Hentges Release Candidate for OZ/GPE rom
suspend works instant on, instant off on the Hentges Rom :-)
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- there is much more software available (without the need to compile) for pdaXrom
- Your kidding right?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=128833\")
No. This is based on various pieces of information I have found - for example here : [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=Distributions]https://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=Distributions[/url].
I am wrong? Please tell me if it is so! I am a newbie to this - so please be patient, and explain!
Do programs like Abiword, Gnumeric, Amule etc. work on OE? Where could I find out what exists for OE?
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- there is much more software available (without the need to compile) for pdaXrom
- Your kidding right?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
(http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=128833\")
No. This is based on various pieces of information I have found - for example here : [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=Distributions]https://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=Distributions[/url].
I am wrong? Please tell me if it is so! I am a newbie to this - so please be patient, and explain!
Do programs like Abiword, Gnumeric, Amule etc. work on OE? Where could I find out what exists for OE?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128846\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Believe me, you're quire wrong, thje size of their software archive is actually one of their strongest points, and it's several times larger than what is avaialbe for pdaxrom.
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Believe me, you're quire wrong, thje size of their software archive is actually one of their strongest points, and it's several times larger than what is avaialbe for pdaxrom.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Where is the software archive?
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Hi All
What's the main benefit of pdaXrom vs OZ/GPE?
They are both X11 based, as I understand it, both seem clean and quick.
Which, if any, is better and why?
I know this is all perception, but I'm curious what the perception is.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128820\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have also thought about the same question.
I have found the following differences:
- pdaXrom is using the Flash rom on the C3100 - the others dont
- there is much more software available (without the need to compile) for pdaXrom
- the forum (here) is much more active on pdaXrom
- OE appears to be somewhat more stable - however I hope the pdaXrom will soon be close
As a conclusion I decided for pdaXrom... and I enjoy playing with beta 4
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128822\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I agree with you wholeheatedly and was wondering how you are finding beta 4 and whether it is stable enough yet to actually use in a working environment with abiword, gnumeric etc
cycle_55
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Believe me, you're quire wrong, thje size of their software archive is actually one of their strongest points, and it's several times larger than what is avaialbe for pdaxrom.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=128849\")
Where is the software archive?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[a href=\"http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/3.5.4/feed/]http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.op...ble/3.5.4/feed/[/url] is one mirror... more info can be found on http://www.openzaurus.org (http://www.openzaurus.org)
Keeping things fair the current pdaXrom feed is found http://mail.pdaxrom.org/download/1.1.0beta...rus-Cxx00/feed/ (http://mail.pdaxrom.org/download/1.1.0beta4/Zaurus-Cxx00/feed/)
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Believe me, you're quire wrong, thje size of their software archive is actually one of their strongest points, and it's several times larger than what is avaialbe for pdaxrom.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=128849\")
Where is the software archive?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[a href=\"http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/3.5.4/feed/]http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.op...ble/3.5.4/feed/[/url] is one mirror... more info can be found on http://www.openzaurus.org (http://www.openzaurus.org)
Keeping things fair the current pdaXrom feed is found http://mail.pdaxrom.org/download/1.1.0beta...rus-Cxx00/feed/ (http://mail.pdaxrom.org/download/1.1.0beta4/Zaurus-Cxx00/feed/)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128858\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
been there, had this discussion elsewhere. How much of the listed OZ stuff is niether redundant, nor component, nor non-working? If you cut those out, I think pdaxrom has an edge over gpe. with compatlibs and xqt, arguably, oz/opie has the largest available software set, followed closely by cacko/sharp with xqt.
which reminds me... anyone have a look at xqt speed on 2.6 oz/opie >gpe? could be interesting
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What's the same? The ultimate goal of both is to deliver a Linux PDA environment to the Zaurus (well, OpenZaurus I guess could do more).
Not to pick holes in your well thought out post, but from my experience this isn't quite right. I believe that pdaXrom is not (despite the name!) really aiming to bring a PDA environment - it is much more of a full computer system with all the power that brings.
That's it, enough to get me into trouble, probably.
Of course - where's the fun otherwise?
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If you cut those out, I think pdaxrom has an edge over gpe. with compatlibs and xqt, arguably, oz/opie has the largest available software set, followed closely by cacko/sharp with xqt.
I remember reading a post some time back about how, if some of the internal components of pdaXrom were just a little more up to date, it would be able to run certain debian packages that it just can't run currently. The OZ crew seem to imply their rom's innards are more up to date, would this mean that these debian programs will run on OZ/GPE?
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If you cut those out, I think pdaxrom has an edge over gpe. with compatlibs and xqt, arguably, oz/opie has the largest available software set, followed closely by cacko/sharp with xqt.
I remember reading a post some time back about how, if some of the internal components of pdaXrom were just a little more up to date, it would be able to run certain debian packages that it just can't run currently. The OZ crew seem to imply their rom's innards are more up to date, would this mean that these debian programs will run on OZ/GPE?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128876\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It is very unlikely that Debian stuff will work on OZ due to OZ using Softfloat.
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It is very unlikely that Debian stuff will work on OZ due to OZ using Softfloat.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128881\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Is that really such an issue?
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[which reminds me... anyone have a look at xqt speed on 2.6 oz/opie >gpe? could be interesting
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128868\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
qvfb on an OZ X based image (gpe, e, xfce) running opie apps would be a lot easier and faster
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can you run regular sharprom applications on the oz/gpe? I know the answer is NO but i just had to ask anyway. It's just one of those things.
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Well....
I'm loving GPE, it's very clean, well implemented and resizes the windows way better than pdaXrom.
I love the fact the onscreen keyboard isn't in the way of apps and they resize around it. I like the fact that nothing starts up beyond the range of the screen.
However, I'm not ready to abandon openoffice just yet :-P
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can you run regular sharprom applications on the oz/gpe? I know the answer is NO but i just had to ask anyway. It's just one of those things.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually, it is possible, just install the sharprom in a chroot and point the QWS vars to qvfb. It's similar to the trick pocketworkstation uses.
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Well....
I'm loving GPE, it's very clean, well implemented and resizes the windows way better than pdaXrom.
I love the fact the onscreen keyboard isn't in the way of apps and they resize around it. I like the fact that nothing starts up beyond the range of the screen.
However, I'm not ready to abandon openoffice just yet :-P
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
abiword can open openoffice/opendoc documents, at least the version I compiled can. there are abiword plugins that allow you to open and save openoffice document. you just need to have those extra plugins.
in general i like openzaurus, but the major problem with it is still documentation. it is very hard to find out anything about oz unless you install it and see what it does, ie all the apps for oz as well, there isnt any repository you can lookup (as an ordinary user) to get an idea of what apps are available and what they can do. there is quite a lot of stuff there but its very hard to find if you are just doing your due dilligence research or just trying to find out more info before deciding whether you really want to try it. once you take the leap and actually install oz, then things just magically appear if you are connected to the net.
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I still can't even get to first base! So I take it I need not mess with it due to lack of knowledge. I actually want to try out the oz/gpe and make some stuff for it but looking at the documentation and the files made do a 180 back to my cave. When i browse for oz, i get bounced around tons of places and when i finally find the page, i just cant add 2plus2.
pdaxrom i can at least flash because documentation is right there infront of me.
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Flashing instructions here:
http://openzaurus.berlios.de/Install (http://openzaurus.berlios.de/Install)
Files are here:
http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.op...icial/unstable/ (http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/)
Si
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Lardman: OZ 3.5.4.1-rc files are here: http://openzaurus.org/wordpress/2006/05/22...penzaurus-3541/ (http://openzaurus.org/wordpress/2006/05/22/fourth-release-candidate-of-openzaurus-3541/)
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yeah i finally got those two pages and have them up. Im backing up everything cuz i know what the hell is going to happen to my z . its taking 190 minutes copying files from my z to my pc. Ill be playing with the oz for a bit just to see where you guys are at since i last flashed to another z.
the only problem i have is that file. "gnu-tar"----update, never mind. I found it on that page. Seriously took me a bit to figure the downloads out.
sorry pdaxdudes. i kinda hijacked this thread.
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Thanks hrw
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going back to the topic from a noob point of view:
I've started my pda experience with a toshiba e750 mounting a windoze system... no way. winz sucks, so I decided to buy a Z...
now I'm a proud owner of a c3k clamshell Z and I've tried both pdaxrom and OZ....
what do I want most from my pda is:
- pre-installed software or an easy way to install it
- a fast system
- easy syncing with my pc (windoz or linux doesn't matter but it matters it must be easy!)
- the possibility to write some text in a format I can read on windoze machines
- a working mp3 player with a GUI
- a working video player with a GUI
- a pdf reader that takes into consideration pda limitation (small screen, slow processor, little ram) and capable of loading and displaying large pdf files.
I think that neither pdaxrom or OZ satisfy my needs... but here are some considerations from a noob point of view:
- pdaxrom doesnt fully support c3k while OZ does
- both distros need some learning to get installed what you like but I feel more confortable with OZ...
- I'd like to have only 1 distro for my pda instead of the ability to choose between 3 (gpe, opie, pdax) which don't satisfy my needs (but I understand this is a dream...)
- I'd be glad to donate on a montly base to get my needs satisfied.....
- I'd like to meet other people with my problems to count ourselves and to plan a strategy to improve our pda...
bye, al_do
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IMO another factor to consider when selecting a ROM is support. I've had very differnet experiences with OZ and pdaXrom in regards to getting support. I'm talking about the developers and the users. My experiences have not been the deciding factor but have contributed to my general feeling about each ROM.
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I agree with you wholeheatedly and was wondering how you are finding beta 4 and whether it is stable enough yet to actually use in a working environment with abiword, gnumeric etc
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128856\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It is quite stable, however some features still need tweaking ( I hope beta 5 will have those tweaks).
Features like:
- on / off does not work well (sometimes I have to do a full reset to switch the unit back on)
- the keymaps require some work to use the unit
- default fstab not very usable
However, all of these can be overcome today (relatively easily) if
- you use "suspend" to put the unit to sleep
- fix the keymap ( how-to's are available)
- redo fstab ( I have done this: it is not too difficult even for a newbie like myself)
So I overall like it!
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IMO another factor to consider when selecting a ROM is support. I've had very differnet experiences with OZ and pdaXrom in regards to getting support. I'm talking about the developers and the users. My experiences have not been the deciding factor but have contributed to my general feeling about each ROM.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
How would you characterise those experiences?
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[which reminds me... anyone have a look at xqt speed on 2.6 oz/opie >gpe? could be interesting
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128868\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
qvfb on an OZ X based image (gpe, e, xfce) running opie apps would be a lot easier and faster
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
... and preferable, I think. I hadn't realized it would work as well as you suggest. Anyone got it going? have those few really great qt/opie apps--and maybe opera on gpe (or any x11) would solve some otherwise sticky issues. (so would geeting ssl and javascript going on the gpe browser)
If it is easily doable, shouldn't it be a "standard" option on X roms at some point?.
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Can I ask, how come GPE managed to resize everything perfectly to fit the screen and pdaXrom doesn't and hasn't for a really long time, is there a reason why this bug happens?
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Yes, I might add that the panel is only on the first desktop, and yet on the other ones, maximising windows still leaves space for the panel! Either have the panel on all desktops, or maximise windows properly on desktops where there isn't a panel.
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window size on pdaxrom depends on the window manager you use. presumably the same is true in OZ. GPE (using matchbox, right?) does a nice job. Fvwm and xfce do well on pdaXrom too.
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I was only commenting that it was odd that the bug persists in pdaXrom from version to version.
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yeah
I was only commenting that it was odd that the bug persists in pdaXrom from version to version.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129063\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
yeah... the first real changes to the default wm seem to be in beta 4. the reason I pointed out the wm issue is that a lot of pdax users change wm. I think OZ x11 users might tend to stay more w/ gpe or enlightenment
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yeahI was only commenting that it was odd that the bug persists in pdaXrom from version to version.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129063\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
yeah... the first real changes to the default wm seem to be in beta 4. the reason I pointed out the wm issue is that a lot of pdax users change wm. I think OZ x11 users might tend to stay more w/ gpe or enlightenment
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Could it be that more pdaXrom users change WM because the default one is buggy and not up to scratch, whereas the GPE people stay where they are cause the default window manager is well implemented?
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yeahI was only commenting that it was odd that the bug persists in pdaXrom from version to version.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129063\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
yeah... the first real changes to the default wm seem to be in beta 4. the reason I pointed out the wm issue is that a lot of pdax users change wm. I think OZ x11 users might tend to stay more w/ gpe or enlightenment
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Could it be that more pdaXrom users change WM because the default one is buggy and not up to scratch, whereas the GPE people stay where they are cause the default window manager is well implemented?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129085\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think it has more to do with feature sets, size, and speed actually. The window sizing thing isn't really much of an issue except on the 6000. the very few apps that pop up oversized windows are handled easily enough with the alt key. Keep in mind that GPE uses matchbox wm... pdaxrom can also use matchbox. It really isn't that much of an issue. If you really love gpe, then by all means use gpe and be happy. As to why OZ users don't seem to switch.... are there other wm's that are confiured to work well in OZ outta the box? It might be lack of options as much as "goodness" of gpe. I actually plan to give gpe a spin this week and see how things run on my 3100. I won't switch wms
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Could it be that more pdaXrom users change WM because the default one is buggy and not up to scratch, whereas the GPE people stay where they are cause the default window manager is well implemented?
I can't understand why matchbox/openbox was used as the default WM on pdaxrom. To put it mildly, it's crap compared to practically any of the other popular WMs. The only pro to it (if you can call it that) is that it looks the most PDAish - but given what pdaxrom is all about, maybe that's not such a good thing.
I use IceWM - it's smaller, faster. more stable and has more features than matchbox - what more could I ask for? BTW with icewm it does forces most windows to respect the screen size (the usual exceptions are dialog boxes which simply wouldn't fit within 640x480).
-- cheers
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XFCE looks pretty impressive compared to Matchbox also
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XFCE looks pretty impressive compared to Matchbox also
That is why I use XFCE... I love pdaXrom but... hate matchbox....
Most think it is heavy and steals alot of needed resources... but I dont notice much of a difference...
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Yeah, I switched to icewm also! I really feel like I am home with this WM.
I recommend anyone who has matchbox to switch!
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Yeah, I switched to icewm also! I really feel like I am home with this WM.
I recommend anyone who has matchbox to switch!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129165\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Can you please tell which .ipk you have used to do this?
Is this it: icewm-pdaxrom_0.0.5-2_armv5tel.ipk? Is that all you need to install?
Also: how do you launch icewm, after it is installed? With startx? Do you maybe need to remove matchbox first?
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Abiword is more responsive on GPE? For one, I didn't know it existed on GPE. I used OZ/GPE last year and found that noticably lacking.
But why the urge to use OO? I find that Abiword, on my Z or my desktop, to be so much more responsive that I never use OO. And as far as spreadsheets go, gnumeric is the standard now, IMNSHO.
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I use open office on a PC and a Mac and in our office, using open office file formats. To have openoffice on the Z would be fantastic, because then I don't need to convert my files into other formats for abiword to read. Last time I looked, admittedly a long time ago, abiword doesn't support open office formats, neither does gnumeric (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Also, when looking at a file in abiword vs openoffice, the text is actually larger and more readable in openoffice, don't ask me why, just seems that way.
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My experience is that OO is decades slower than abiword in loading and manipulating files that are in MS format -- like all the ones you get in e-mail. Also, formatting of such documents is considerably worse in OO -- for me -- than abiword or gnumeric. Gnumeric OTOH has features missing in OO and Excel that I like, such as being able to pass more arguments to commands. There are simple things I needed to do that xls format would not handle, but gnumeric did.
I would imagine that the native OO formats are better than the MS formats, but who would bother with a word processor like that if it weren't for people shoving MS documents in your face all the time?
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But why the urge to use OO? I find that Abiword, on my Z or my desktop, to be so much more responsive that I never use OO. And as far as spreadsheets go, gnumeric is the standard now, IMNSHO.[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Sorry guys but I have to say that - I think that possibility to run OpenOffice.org on Z is like 'my penis is bigger then yours' talks. This beast is big & slow on desktops so why install it on Zaurus? Just because it can be possible? Man... I know that we can add 8GB microdrives, use NFS and then build native gentoo/LFS/other stuff or run dnetc or other crappy SETI but do we have to?
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My experience is that OO is decades slower than abiword in loading and manipulating files that are in MS format -- like all the ones you get in e-mail. Also, formatting of such documents is considerably worse in OO -- for me -- than abiword or gnumeric. Gnumeric OTOH has features missing in OO and Excel that I like, such as being able to pass more arguments to commands. There are simple things I needed to do that xls format would not handle, but gnumeric did.
I would imagine that the native OO formats are better than the MS formats, but who would bother with a word processor like that if it weren't for people shoving MS documents in your face all the time?
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When I open documents in gnumeric and abiword I spend ages faffing with the zoom and resizing cells so I can see the contents clearly. Never had that issue with open office.
Open Office 2 is WAY faster then OO1
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Sorry guys but I have to say that - I think that possibility to run OpenOffice.org on Z is like 'my penis is bigger then yours' talks. This beast is big & slow on desktops so why install it on Zaurus? Just because it can be possible? Man... I know that we can add 8GB microdrives, use NFS and then build native gentoo/LFS/other stuff or run dnetc or other crappy SETI but do we have to?
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As far as wordprocessing and spreadsheets go, yes they can usually be better addressed by Abiword and Gnumeric. But for drawing diagrams there really is no adequate substitute for OOo Draw. I know there's Inkscape, but it has various issues - chief among them is WYSI(not)WYG, eg fills don't print.
And as for 'my penis is bigger than yours' in relation to the number of packages available for the various roms/distros, a more useful measure would be "are the application(s) that you want/need to use available"?
-- cheers
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a more useful measure would be "are the application(s) that you want/need to use available"?
-- cheers
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I totally agree. Meanie's OOo runs perfectly fast enough for me. If I could only have it without the little spreadsheet bug, I'd be happier.
I bet you, if you compile OOo for the Z, people will use it.
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This was the pdaX vs. OZ w/ GPE thread, right?
I hear a lot of "this is faster than that" and "this is more standards compliant than that" talk from the OZ/pdaX battle, but what really matters to most of us is perceived usability. Microsoft relies on that you know, their software may be inefficient, slow and buggy, but most people perceive that that they can get what they want done with it. Obviously we all know better, but the same does apply here. Unless the speed gains are HUGE, and they rarely are, few will switch "ROMs" unless there is a perceived usability benefit.
So, from the standpoint of perceived usability, what does OZ w/ GPE have to offer? I tried the latest OZ/GPE this week, and was kind of unimpressed. Probably some more documentation (which pdaX also needs) and a greater desire to learn would have helped, but I was longing for pdaX.
What does GPE offer to the user that pdaX does not? Is there something fundamental that I am missing?
(On a side note, where can I find doc's for GPE, as in, the keyboard layout (just where IS the ALT key) and window managment (how DO I resize windows)?)
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Can you please tell which .ipk you have used to do this?
Is this it: icewm-pdaxrom_0.0.5-2_armv5tel.ipk? Is that all you need to install?
No, that only contains the pdaxrom specific configuration files. You need to the install icewm_XXX.ipk as well.
Also: how do you launch icewm, after it is installed? With startx?
I believe icewm-pdaxrom overwrites startx, so yes, just startx.
Do you maybe need to remove matchbox first?
No. But after using icewm you wouldn't want to go back to matchbox.
For more info read these:
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...=19412&hl=icewm (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=19412&hl=icewm)
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...=18891&hl=icewm (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18891&hl=icewm)
-- cheers
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As far as wordprocessing and spreadsheets go, yes they can usually be better addressed by Abiword and Gnumeric. But for drawing diagrams there really is no adequate substitute for OOo Draw. I know there's Inkscape, but it has various issues - chief among them is WYSI(not)WYG, eg fills don't print.
And as for 'my penis is bigger than yours' in relation to the number of packages available for the various roms/distros, a more useful measure would be "are the application(s) that you want/need to use available"?
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I unpacked the ARM OpenOffice installer under GPE. Ran the install script, it copied the app. When you try to run the setup however or soffice directly, it launches, but after a while I get: I18N: X Window System doesn't support locale "C"
/usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/soffice.bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/libvcl645lr.so: undefined symbol: XkbQueryExtensionThe locale shouldn't be a prob. I've searched on the XkbQueryExtension thing, but can't find anything indicative...
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I unpacked the ARM OpenOffice installer under GPE. Ran the install script, it copied the app. When you try to run the setup however or soffice directly, it launches, but after a while I get: I18N: X Window System doesn't support locale "C"
/usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/soffice.bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/libvcl645lr.so: undefined symbol: XkbQueryExtensionThe locale shouldn't be a prob. I've searched on the XkbQueryExtension thing, but can't find anything indicative...
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Might want to post that in the GPE or OZ/Common forums if you haven't already
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This was the pdaX vs. OZ w/ GPE thread, right?
What does GPE offer to the user that pdaX does not? Is there something fundamental that I am missing?
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I think fundamental difference has less to do with speed or particular packages being on one vs other ROM and more with development focus. OZ may be attractive if you believe that due to the fact it is targeted for many devices when you in the future migrate to some other linux device you may get OZ/GPE you are already familiar with. It seems like pdaX is primarily focused on getting as much as possible specifically out of Zaurus and the portability is not the primary focus (but because there is so much more focus on Z you get developer to pay more attention to make apps finetuned for Z?).
To be fair I need to point out that I have not used OZ or pdaX up until now since I'm still waiting for someone from either distribution to announce that some browser works on those ROMS as smoothly as Opera does on Cacko - it seems like many have asked this question (many times) but I have not seen a satisfactory answer that would make me switch - and browser is something I use far more often than any other app.
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This was the pdaX vs. OZ w/ GPE thread, right?
What does GPE offer to the user that pdaX does not? Is there something fundamental that I am missing?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129303\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think fundamental difference has less to do with speed or particular packages being on one vs other ROM and more with development focus. OZ may be attractive if you believe that due to the fact it is targeted for many devices when you in the future migrate to some other linux device you may get OZ/GPE you are already familiar with. It seems like pdaX is primarily focused on getting as much as possible specifically out of Zaurus and the portability is not the primary focus (but because there is so much more focus on Z you get developer to pay more attention to make apps finetuned for Z?).
To be fair I need to point out that I have not used OZ or pdaX up until now since I'm still waiting for someone from either distribution to announce that some browser works on those ROMS as smoothly as Opera does on Cacko - it seems like many have asked this question (many times) but I have not seen a satisfactory answer that would make me switch - and browser is something I use far more often than any other app.
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yeah. people from both systems have mentioned qvfb to run qtopia apps. I haven't heard from anyone actually doing it. I think it is worth pursuing on both gpe and pdax.The sources are on the trolltech site;pick your favorite dev environment and have at it. If no one else does, I might give it a go this summer, though i'm far less wizardly than many of the other users of either system.
edit: on the other hand, opera 7.x is getting pretty ##@!!! old. netfront on Z has been atg 3.1 for at least a year. In the world of qt the only movement seems to be rumors of work on konqueror in opie. in the X world firefox is getting better and better and gpe has a shiny new browser. One loaded, firefox is, imho, hands down better than opera.
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I use pdaXrom.
I still find Firefox to be heavy and slow, but it is great to have full compatibility with desktop browsers. I have even done firefox extension development on my z.
I use Dillo whenever I can and only fall back on Firefox when I absolutely have to.
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I use pdaXrom.
I still find Firefox to be heavy and slow, but it is great to have full compatibility with desktop browsers. I have even done firefox extension development on my z.
I use Dillo whenever I can and only fall back on Firefox when I absolutely have to.
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Have you had much luck handling proxy servers with dillo?
I've found that often one or another incarnation of links goes a long way toward filling in the gaps.
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Let's turn the question around.
I have a C860 and C1000. I don't really mind to try out the latest results from both the pdaX and OZ sides. On the one hand it seems weird to the seemingly not so large Zaurus user/development communities; but on the other hand having real stuff ready to try out implies (relatively speaking) mature and active development status and enough diversities -- Cacko, OZ, pdaX. Granted that the Zaurii is the leading species in the kingdom of embedded Linux, having several strong breeds will actually do no harm but demonstrate that the ongoing evolution is gaining momentum.
My next plan is once Beta4 issues are fixed and streamlined on my C1000, I will try OZ (Opie or GPE) on my C860, and then I'll begin to see the strengths and weaknesses on both sides in my eyes. I just don't feel comfortable at all to keep switching back and forth, as I do need my Zaurus to do real work in real life; nor do I feel secure when ppl keep telling me "You need ABC? Okay, that's (theoretically) possible if you do/install/tweak XYZ" without any real user out there actually sharing real stories.
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I've tried both OZ and pdaXrom and keep going back to pdaXrom on my C860, seems to meet my needs a little more. OZ was great though.
As for pdaXrom window managers, I gave wmaker a try, very slick and fast that was. Just needs a few more dockapps ported for it and it'd be greatly useable.
A lot of stuff percieved as 'missing' in pdaXrom is often available in the contrib feeds.
When my only Zaurus was a 5500 though, I stuck with Hentges' ROM. Worked great. I really suspect that if there was a version available for the C860 I'd probably be using that right now.
Kelly
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I've tried both OZ and pdaXrom and keep going back to pdaXrom on my C860, seems to meet my needs a little more. OZ was great though.
As for pdaXrom window managers, I gave wmaker a try, very slick and fast that was. Just needs a few more dockapps ported for it and it'd be greatly useable.
A lot of stuff percieved as 'missing' in pdaXrom is often available in the contrib feeds.
When my only Zaurus was a 5500 though, I stuck with Hentges' ROM. Worked great. I really suspect that if there was a version available for the C860 I'd probably be using that right now.
Kelly
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After trying out GPE for a bit, my impression was that it was a bit uncomplete, more like an alpha release and not very useful. But then I tried the hentges version of GPE and the difference was enormous. I also tried OPIE, but apart from being a little faster than SharpROM/Cacko, it didn't have much else to offer and the lack of useful apps (quantity does not make up for quality) was quite dissappointing in OZ in general. The GUI package manager just crashes constantly which I think is quite annoying to say the least.