OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Zaurus - Everything Development => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => X/Qt => Topic started by: grog on June 21, 2006, 10:54:03 pm
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Hi all. I'm really interested in trying out PocketWorkstation (http://wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstation) and/or PocketWorkstationXQT (http://wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstationXQT) on my C860, but can I please get a few questions answered first?
For starters, I am in the right forum (X/QT = PocketWorkstationXQT)? And what's the diff between the above two? Do the above pages have the right info to get me started, or should I go through the main pinned topic (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=8125) first? It seems that if I want a 'true' X desktop I'll have to go the PocketWorkstationXQT way, correct?
And what's pdaxqtrom (http://www.users.on.net/~hluc/myZaurus/jumbo/pdaxqtrom.html) all about? That seems to be entirely pdaxrom based, right?
And it seems either needs a 'base' install of something else. Do I have to use the official sharp rom, or can I use cacko? Can I use OZ/OPIE? And after I get comfortable with debian, do I ever have to boot back into the other for any reason? Is there any way to install just PocketWorkstation to flash?
thanks in advance
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Hi,
I'll take a stab at answering your questions. It's a little complicated, and although
I am not affiliated (at this time) with any of these projects, I'm hoping to save the
developers some time, and also to verify that I have a complete and clear picture of
all this. (I used to develop X11 apps for big companies for years in the past)
First, the X Window System, also known as X11, or just X, uses a server called the
X Server, to display graphics and accept user input from keyboard, mice etc.. Once this
is running, programs (called X clients) can display their GUIs on the X Server. They can be
running on the same system, or any system in the network. (Amazingly flexible)
OK, now the Zaurus as shipped with the Sharp ROM has none of this, and its
graphical system is called Qtopia or Qt for short. But many folks missed the power
of X, and decided to implement an X Server for the Zaurus platform. This can be
done, as was done in many ways as follows:
Pocket Workstation uses a modified VNC (Virtual Network Computing) that uses
the FB (frame buffer) to display the graphics, and chrooted environment that
"fools" LINUX into thinking the / directory is somewhere else, like an SD card.
It also provides a base Debian release in this "fake or auxilliary" / and not any
of the normal Sharp ROM software.
Xqt uses an X Server implemented within the normal Qtopia environment, using
its API for graphics, etc.
Then there is pdaXrom, which is another ROM (sort of my favorite) that provides
a "native" X Server, probably by using the normal XFree86, X.org, or TinyX
X server, the first two which are used by most major LINUX desktop distributions.
OK, now there's pdaXqtrom which is a packaged-up version of pdaXrom, but
uses the Xqt server, and runs on (or really under) the Sharp ROM or variants
like Cacko. This is done again by using a "chrooted" environment. Although
slower than the running the real pdaXrom ROM, it is very flexible and is implemented
by using a couple of loop devices, which are files that are mounted in a way that
they appear and act like partitions. They are typically installed on external media,
but do not have to be. I have been checking this out recently, since it allows the
(extremely stable and predictable) Sharp ROM to be used, and offers great flexibility.
Xqt-Jumbo and Xqt-Super-Jumbo, are from the same person (Meanie) who
put together pdaXqtrom. They are again X environments (apps and a server)
that can be installed as loop devices (compressed RAM filesystems or cramfs
images that can be mounted, and voila you have a system), and I believe they
can also be uncompressed and installed anywhere.
OK, then there is PocketWorkstationXQT which appears to use the Xqt server
instead of the frame-buffer-based modified VNC server for graphics.
SO, I would say you are in the correct forum for any of the above that use Xqt!
Lastly, I think the term "true X desktop" would refer to any of the above environments
in which X clients (programs) will run on, but I think the purists would say that
if the Sharp ROM's Qt panel, etc., are visible and taking up screen space, that its
not a "true" X desktop.
OK, I did my best, and have potentially opened myself up for criticism and correction,
but what the heck!
John
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Hi all. I'm really interested in trying out PocketWorkstation (http://wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstation) and/or PocketWorkstationXQT (http://wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstationXQT) on my C860, but can I please get a few questions answered first?
For starters, I am in the right forum (X/QT = PocketWorkstationXQT)? And what's the diff between the above two? Do the above pages have the right info to get me started, or should I go through the main pinned topic (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=8125) first? It seems that if I want a 'true' X desktop I'll have to go the PocketWorkstationXQT way, correct?
And what's pdaxqtrom (http://www.users.on.net/~hluc/myZaurus/jumbo/pdaxqtrom.html) all about? That seems to be entirely pdaxrom based, right?
And it seems either needs a 'base' install of something else. Do I have to use the official sharp rom, or can I use cacko? Can I use OZ/OPIE? And after I get comfortable with debian, do I ever have to boot back into the other for any reason? Is there any way to install just PocketWorkstation to flash?
thanks in advance
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=132309\")
PocketWorkstation is a Debian distribution, in short, Debian on the Zaurus (PocketWorkstation is not X/Qt). PocketWorkstation is almost a complete distro, except it does not come with a kernel and boot loader so you need to boot off some other distro and then load PocketWorkstation. This is usually done by either using a pivot boot (which was invented by the OZ team I think) or the conventional chroot method. Since PocketWorkstation is running X11, it needs a X server. This currently is implemented in two ways, a vnc frambuffer or X/Qt which is also a framebuffer via Qtopia (QT/E).
The PocketWorkstation originally and by default uses a vnc framebuffer. To do this, you need to exit the current GUI environment (which is Qtopia on Sharp/Cacko). By using X/Qt instead you do not need to exit Qtopia so you can access both environments at the same time.
Because PocketWorkstation runs in chroot. its essentially a separate distribution and you can update its libraries indedenpently from the parent environment.
pdaXqtrom is an extension of X/Qt. It runs natively on the Sharp/Cacko ROM and uses its libraries and adds extra ones that are needed to run many of the popular X applications. pdaXqtrom mimics pdaXrom, ie it has the same library packages and versions as well as the applications. The goal for pdaXqtrom is to allow people who need Sharp/Cacko (because there are applications that only work on these) to run X11 applications without having to switch to pdaXrom or OZ/GPE.
So both PocketWorkstation and pdaXqtrom alllow you to run X11 applications under Sharp/Cacko ROM. Which one is better? It depends. The way PocketWorkstation works is similar to say using Windows XP inside VMware under Windows 2000. Both the parent and child environment are independant in a way. You need to update both separately and each has their own file system, user accounts, network settings, etc.... but there are a lot of packages for Debian (PocketWorkstation). You will need around 512MB - 2GB for PocketWorkstation depending on how many extra applications you want to install. In most cases you don't want to install that many applications on your Zaurus anyway since it does not have that much space unlike a desktop PC where a few hundred gigabytes is not a problem at all.
On the other hand, pdaXqtrom is just a collection of extra packages added to Sharp/Cacko. All the pdaXqtrom files are available as individual packages which you can install manually or from a feed. [a href=\"http://www.thegrinder.ws/Meanies_XQT/pdaxqtrom/feed/]http://www.thegrinder.ws/Meanies_XQT/pdaxqtrom/feed/[/url]
In order to simplify the installation and also to save space pdaXqtrom is also available as compressed images which you just need to mount and create symlinks to (all done for you by the pdaXqtrom installer). There are less applications available thru pdaXqtrom than PocketWorkstation. pdaXqtrom has about 40 applications only.
Of course, there is nothing stopping you from installing PocketWorkstation under pdaXqtrom so you get everything.
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I suggest that we rename and sticky this thread as it is the most comprehensive and accessible description of the relationship between the various ROMS to date!
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Thanks for the details, guys. That does clear most of it up. Just for clarity then, I can start from a cacko install & then install either pocketworkstation or pocketworkstationxqt onto an sd card. There's also no way to have just pocketworkstation installed to flash, 'cause it needs another distro to 'fill in the blanks', so to speak. Correct?
Is there a way to default the Z to pocketworkstation when it reboots, or will I always have to start up with qtopia then switch over?
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And can I flash/update the base rom (cacko) later on & then run the setup scripts again & use my same install of pocketworkstation (without having to reinstall that as well)?
Thanks again
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Well, I've answered one of my original questions. I can use my sd card with pocketworkstation installed under diffferent roms, I just have to rerun the postinst.sh script each time & reflash.
I've managed to get pocketworkstation working under Cacko 1.23 but not under OZ/OPIE 3.5.4.1.rc4. In OZ, at first I got a cannot open display error, which I just created a ~/.xinitrc & added 'export DISPLAY=:0.0' to fix, but then I got another error 'cannot open /dev/ts'. Anybody have any ideas on that one? I'd really like to use OZ instead (newer kernel for one thing).
Pocketworkstation seems to work well under cacko, although I haven't tried much yet. Is there any way I suspend/resume (this is just straight pocketworkstation, not running under xqt)? I figured out how to use cru to access the 'external' filesystems. I don't quite get the difference between cru & crd. Anyone care to enlighten me?
thks
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Is there any way I suspend/resume (this is just straight pocketworkstation, not running under xqt)?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133001\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Answering my own question by RTFM (HELP file). <fn>-Cancel suspends just nifty .
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I agree this should be sticky'd... I've been thinkin about using Pocketworkstation... and this has just moved me one step closer to tryin it...
Late
Edit: ok... I lied... It says it support SL-5xxx and Cxx0... no C1000 support from the looks of it...
Still good info....
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I finally got enough time to get my cf nic up & running, which I had to do in qpe. Is there any way to configure & start a card directly in debian? I'd like to know when I get around to trying out my wifi card next, as I'll have to configure it with a wep key.
I then first tried 'apt-get update', which failed trying to get the testing arm lists (which don't exist. Sad to think that this'll all be out of date one day) so I changed /etc/apt/sources.list to point to stable, and that worked great. I then did a 'apt-get -y dist-upgrade' & set it to only prompt on critical changes, which went without a hitch (well, it still prompts you for a few things, which I found annoying, but that's life). I also installed xmms & xmms-mad, which again installed & run just fine.
But of course I now try to point xmms to the mp3's on my cf card & I can't figure out how from with the chroot'd environment. I can 'cru df' & see the mounted filesystem, and 'cru ls -l /mnt/cf' shows what's on the card, but 'ls -l /mnt/cf' is empty (local). There's no /etc/fstab, do I have to create one & mount the cards again under debian? Then again there's no /dev/hda* device blocks in the chroot, so how would I go about creating those (if that's the right approach to take)?
thks
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Edit: ok... I lied... It says it support SL-5xxx and Cxx0... no C1000 support from the looks of it...[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133103\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I was browsing through the (very low volume) mailing list archives & I did see a couple of posts from another C1000 user saying that he got it working, You should check it out .
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Edit: ok... I lied... It says it support SL-5xxx and Cxx0... no C1000 support from the looks of it...[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133103\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I was browsing through the (very low volume) mailing list archives & I did see a couple of posts from another C1000 user saying that he got it working, You should check it out .
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133188\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
C1000 support is the same as C3000 support except that it needs to be put on a slow SD or CF card instead of the internal microdrive and suspend/resume/card insertion/ejection will cause trouble/hangs....
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I can 'cru df' & see the mounted filesystem, and 'cru ls -l /mnt/cf' shows what's on the card, but 'ls -l /mnt/cf' is empty (local). There's no /etc/fstab, do I have to create one & mount the cards again under debian? Then again there's no /dev/hda* device blocks in the chroot, so how would I go about creating those (if that's the right approach to take)?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Another one I managed to figure out myself (well, I got some help from a local linux buddy ). All from within the chroot'd debian environment:
# mknod /dev/hda b 3 0
# mknod /dev/hda1 b 3 1
# mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/cardI'll make a /etc/fstab & see if it'll do it automatically.
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This (http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/leurent/zaurus.html) is the site for debian on the 3000. I think it has what you need. combined with meanie's xqt stuff and a "corrected" fstab it should be a great setup.
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Does anyone update pocket workstation anymore?
Has anyone thought about taking over it's updating if no one does update it anymore?
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I've been trying pocketworkstation on my C3200 but I keep having problems...
Will pocketworkstation work with OZ? If so, OPIE or GPE? And if so, any links to useful docs?
It seems that all the docs I've read talk about using it with a Sharp-based ROM (or Cacko etc.), which I don't want to use.
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I've been trying pocketworkstation on my C3200 but I keep having problems...
Will pocketworkstation work with OZ? If so, OPIE or GPE? And if so, any links to useful docs?
It seems that all the docs I've read talk about using it with a Sharp-based ROM (or Cacko etc.), which I don't want to use.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull
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As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
If Open Office 1 or 2 worked well in OZ under GPE I'd have no reason to use any other ROM ever. GPE is by far my fave environment at the moment.
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As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
If Open Office 1 or 2 worked well in OZ under GPE I'd have no reason to use any other ROM ever. GPE is by far my fave environment at the moment.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build
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As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134321\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Good point - I had read similar points from you recently in other posts, and I agree! I wasn't trying to stir anything up; more a case of just seeing what pocketworkstation had to offer by trying it out - as I haven't had my Z very long, and I'm still on the steep learning curve.
My opinion at the moment is that of Cacko, PdaXrom, GPE and OPIE, I like the look and feel of GPE best (I like the option of being more X-like, choice of WMs etc.), but really want to use Ko/Pi and related, so OPIE looks like my best choice (as I also like the propable compatibility with Sharp/Cacko apps). However I really want a decent "office" suite, like abiword/gnumeric, which isn't available on OPIE.
So, I need a decent PIM and office suite available at the same time, and from my small amount of knowledge I don't think both are available in either GPE or OPIE.
I understand that you can run GPE and OPIE together, but I haven't tried that yet, and I don't know if that configuration will solve my problem. One of my concerns was that the "GPE and OPIE together" wiki was written (by you) last year, and I wasn't sure if it was still relevant (given that other topics on this forum offer fixes/solutions to overcome various problems, and that they have not been integrated into a single guide), and that because I have a C3200 I wasn't sure if I had to move OPIE to SD or whether I could leave as-is (since I don't understand how the dual OPIE/GPE thing works!).
Any help appreciated.
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[..]
but really want to use Ko/Pi and related, so OPIE looks like my best choice
[..]
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=134336\")
1) What does KO/PI offer that gpe-pim doesn't offer? I'm sure the gpe people would like to know.
2) You can get KO/PI for X11 as well, the OE recipes are in the OE bugtracker ( [a href=\"http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371]http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371[/url] ), but *noone* bothered to test them out (kinda surprising since a lot of people ask for them).
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[..]
but really want to use Ko/Pi and related, so OPIE looks like my best choice
[..]
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=134336\")
1) What does KO/PI offer that gpe-pim doesn't offer? I'm sure the gpe people would like to know.
2) You can get KO/PI for X11 as well, the OE recipes are in the OE bugtracker ( [a href=\"http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371]http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371[/url] ), but *noone* bothered to test them out (kinda surprising since a lot of people ask for them).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
1) I don't know - I will look into this and give feedback.
2) So, being new to all this, how could I get/build this and test it?
Thanks for your quick reply.
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I understand that you can run GPE and OPIE together, but I haven't tried that yet, and I don't know if that configuration will solve my problem. One of my concerns was that the "GPE and OPIE together" wiki was written (by you) last year, and I wasn't sure if it was still relevant (given that other topics on this forum offer fixes/solutions to overcome various problems, and that they have not been integrated into a single guide), and that because I have a C3200 I wasn't sure if I had to move OPIE to SD or whether I could leave as-is (since I don't understand how the dual OPIE/GPE thing works!).
Any help appreciated.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=134336\")
OK, I followed the wiki (but did NOT move root to SD/CF) and [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20217]here[/url] and it all works for my C3200, basically do what the wiki says (but don't move root), and also, after GPE is installed, change terminal settings in /etc/init.d/opie back to 2, and disable sleep in GPE.
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"As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull"
er... ok.
there are a few things.
On the 6000, for example, the stock network applet is easier to use if one connects to multiple networks (not strictly a PW thing, but it affects people's choices)
Some hope of getting firefox plugins (like Java, Mplayer-plugin and gpl-flash). Not really hapnin' on pw outta the box, workin pdaX and pdaXqt and surely conceivable on PW.
openoffice (don't know if that works in gpe)
Honestly, though, I think the real reason people do this is isn't so much what pocketworkstation has that OZ doesn't, but what can be easily and coveniently done in the sharprom "behind" it while still having an X based desktop-type linux. Things like usb networking, multiple hotspots, etc (meanie has a good list on his site) are a snap in sharprom, and are long threads for gpe, you know? I think if the usb, networking, (and package manager) applets, some easy plugins for firefox, (a working network applet on the 6k) and maybe a thing or two more (again see meanie's list--short, but clear) were tweaked you'd see more of a migration to OZ..
Also, while Netfront and Opera have their shortcomings, more work on browsers in OZ might help pull people out of the ease of having NF and opera 'right there."
My 6000 is on sharprom/tetsu-kernel/PW instead of OZ mostly because of the simplicity of the sharp networking applet on the 6k (and a few other minor things). OZ would have been the preferred choice for it, but using oZ on a 6k is just a litttle bit less convenient. I think there might be a lot of this going on....
I hope this helps?
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As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
If Open Office 1 or 2 worked well in OZ under GPE I'd have no reason to use any other ROM ever. GPE is by far my fave environment at the moment.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I may have to fall in love with you
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"As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull"
er... ok.
there are a few things.
On the 6000, for example, the stock network applet is easier to use if one connects to multiple networks (not strictly a PW thing, but it affects people's choices)
Some hope of getting firefox plugins (like Java, Mplayer-plugin and gpl-flash). Not really hapnin' on pw outta the box, workin pdaX and pdaXqt and surely conceivable on PW.
openoffice (don't know if that works in gpe)
Honestly, though, I think the real reason people do this is isn't so much what pocketworkstation has that OZ doesn't, but what can be easily and coveniently done in the sharprom "behind" it while still having an X based desktop-type linux. Things like usb networking, multiple hotspots, etc (meanie has a good list on his site) are a snap in sharprom, and are long threads for gpe, you know? I think if the usb, networking, (and package manager) applets, some easy plugins for firefox, (a working network applet on the 6k) and maybe a thing or two more (again see meanie's list--short, but clear) were tweaked you'd see more of a migration to OZ..
Also, while Netfront and Opera have their shortcomings, more work on browsers in OZ might help pull people out of the ease of having NF and opera 'right there."
My 6000 is on sharprom/tetsu-kernel/PW instead of OZ mostly because of the simplicity of the sharp networking applet on the 6k (and a few other minor things). OZ would have been the preferred choice for it, but using oZ on a 6k is just a litttle bit less convenient. I think there might be a lot of this going on....
I hope this helps?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134357\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I wasn't debating the usefullness of PW on sharprom or cacko, I was asking why people would use PW on top of OZ. So for we have only had one usefull response to our questions and that was OOo, all other complainer go on and on about 'OMG 16.000 .debs l0lz0rs' or don't answer at all. PW is a godsent for sharprom and cacko users, but has very few advantages running on top of OZ.
I guess I'll have to rephrase it again:
'If you are running OZ and are using PW, what are you using it for and have you checked whether OZ can provide it natively'
We (the developers) want to help, but were having a *&()%&*#*%#*& time getting straight (or remotely usefull) answers out of the users.
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"As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.
PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull"
er... ok.
there are a few things.
On the 6000, for example, the stock network applet is easier to use if one connects to multiple networks (not strictly a PW thing, but it affects people's choices)
Some hope of getting firefox plugins (like Java, Mplayer-plugin and gpl-flash). Not really hapnin' on pw outta the box, workin pdaX and pdaXqt and surely conceivable on PW.
openoffice (don't know if that works in gpe)
Honestly, though, I think the real reason people do this is isn't so much what pocketworkstation has that OZ doesn't, but what can be easily and coveniently done in the sharprom "behind" it while still having an X based desktop-type linux. Things like usb networking, multiple hotspots, etc (meanie has a good list on his site) are a snap in sharprom, and are long threads for gpe, you know? I think if the usb, networking, (and package manager) applets, some easy plugins for firefox, (a working network applet on the 6k) and maybe a thing or two more (again see meanie's list--short, but clear) were tweaked you'd see more of a migration to OZ..
Also, while Netfront and Opera have their shortcomings, more work on browsers in OZ might help pull people out of the ease of having NF and opera 'right there."
My 6000 is on sharprom/tetsu-kernel/PW instead of OZ mostly because of the simplicity of the sharp networking applet on the 6k (and a few other minor things). OZ would have been the preferred choice for it, but using oZ on a 6k is just a litttle bit less convenient. I think there might be a lot of this going on....
I hope this helps?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134357\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I wasn't debating the usefullness of PW on sharprom or cacko, I was asking why people would use PW on top of OZ. So for we have only had one usefull response to our questions and that was OOo, all other complainer go on and on about 'OMG 16.000 .debs l0lz0rs' or don't answer at all. PW is a godsent for sharprom and cacko users, but has very few advantages running on top of OZ.
I guess I'll have to rephrase it again:
'If you are running OZ and are using PW, what are you using it for and have you checked whether OZ can provide it natively'
We (the developers) want to help, but were having a *&()%&*#*%#*& time getting straight (or remotely usefull) answers out of the users.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
LOL.. because they got used to PW and wanted a better kernel and an X-server? Personally i don't really see the advantage of using PW on top of OZ... Not what it is meant for imho.
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Personally i don't really see the advantage of using PW on top of OZ... Not what it is meant for imho.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134366\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
+1
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Might be an idea to start a new thread with your question as the topic?
Allows people to answer it without thinking about this thread in their answer.
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'If you are running OZ and are using PW, what are you using it for and have you checked whether OZ can provide it natively'
We (the developers) want to help, but were having a *&()%&*#*%#*& time getting straight (or remotely usefull) answers out of the users.
- We (the users) sometimes (most of the times) just want to try some things on our Z or use them at some point but don't feel like to bother you (the developers) with something we know we are probably not gonna use for long. For instance I have used erlang from debian, I could tell you erlang is not readily available for OZ and is in debian, but if you build it, I m probably not gonna try your package.
- We (the users) don't have the HW/bandwidth/time/competence (you name it) to setup OE and build software with it. So even if we know X is available as "can be build" with OE, it's far more simple to have PW set up on our Z and to do apt-get install X. I know if it's in OE we can ask hrw, but then we go back to my first point.
Now, if you just want to collect some suggestions about packages not built for OZ and that people might want because they have tried them with debian, here is my personal list: emacs-x11 (there is a package without X) erlang hugs mozart ocaml guile (to try to learn different languages and to run examples from books)
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here is my personal list: emacs-x11 (there is a package without X) erlang hugs mozart ocaml guile (to try to learn different languages and to run examples from books)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134371\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
hugs, ocaml and guile (ruby as well) are already in OE, so half your list should be ready to go into the feeds
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OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Forgive my repeated ignorance, as I'm curious about how this works. Why would you need an ARM board?
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OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Forgive my repeated ignorance, as I'm curious about how this works. Why would you need an ARM board?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135548\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
You can't really crosscompile OOo, since that buildsystem is a mess. I also spotted some hardcoded /usr/include entries, so building it natively would be easier and 'safer' from a purist POV.
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OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Forgive my repeated ignorance, as I'm curious about how this works. Why would you need an ARM board?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135548\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
You can't really crosscompile OOo, since that buildsystem is a mess. I also spotted some hardcoded /usr/include entries, so building it natively would be easier and 'safer' from a purist POV.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135549\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm guessing it would take way too long to do natively on a Z?
Can you use the board for other things? Will it be of long term benefit to other projects?
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OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Forgive my repeated ignorance, as I'm curious about how this works. Why would you need an ARM board?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135548\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
You can't really crosscompile OOo, since that buildsystem is a mess. I also spotted some hardcoded /usr/include entries, so building it natively would be easier and 'safer' from a purist POV.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135549\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm guessing it would take way too long to do natively on a Z?
Can you use the board for other things? Will it be of long term benefit to other projects?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Most of the 'too long' is caused by only having 64MB ram, so getting a board with 256MB will speed up compiling c++ and java stuff *a lot* since you can avoid swapping to CF/SD.
I also have enough other ARM boards and devices to make running distcc usefull
The board will be used to work on native stuff for Ångström and OE.
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Most of the 'too long' is caused by only having 64MB ram, so getting a board with 256MB will speed up compiling c++ and java stuff *a lot* since you can avoid swapping to CF/SD.
I also have enough other ARM boards and devices to make running distcc usefull
The board will be used to work on native stuff for Ångström and OE.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Sounds like you're almost salivating at the thought of getting your hands on it!
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dare I ask how it's going?
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Does anyone know where to download zaurus-debian-big-v0.15.tgz ?
All the sites are down now???
JP
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Did the arm board help with OOo?
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\")
Does anyone know where to download zaurus-debian-big-v0.15.tgz ?
All the sites are down now???
JP
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[a href=\"http://pocketworkstation.infinology.net/files/]http://pocketworkstation.infinology.net/files/[/url]
..Klaus is having a few probs renewing the domain at the moment...he emailed me very promptly when I mentioned about having probs accessing the pocketworkstation.org site.
The above mirror works well.
Cheers,
zedkatuf.
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\")
Does anyone know where to download zaurus-debian-big-v0.15.tgz ?
All the sites are down now???
JP
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[a href=\"http://pocketworkstation.infinology.net/files/]http://pocketworkstation.infinology.net/files/[/url]
..Klaus is having a few probs renewing the domain at the moment...he emailed me very promptly when I mentioned about having probs accessing the pocketworkstation.org site.
The above mirror works well.
Cheers,
zedkatuf.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thanks for the reply.
I have pdaxrom flashed on my C700 now. However, I'm really keen on getting a chrooted debian environment .
I need the following on my Z.
GTK 2
PERL
RUBY
PYTHON
Questions:
Would pocketworkstation work with PdaXrom?
Does Debian use the PdaXrom X server or run its on?
How will this run on the C700?
Final Question:
Am I going about this all wrong? Do I need to put debian on my C700 to achieve getting the packages above?
My goal is to use the PDA to develop RFID applications. I have an ACG reader (CF2) card and need the dev capabilities above.
CHeers!!!!
JP
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\")
Does anyone know where to download zaurus-debian-big-v0.15.tgz ?
All the sites are down now???
JP
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[a href=\"http://pocketworkstation.infinology.net/files/]http://pocketworkstation.infinology.net/files/[/url]
..Klaus is having a few probs renewing the domain at the moment...he emailed me very promptly when I mentioned about having probs accessing the pocketworkstation.org site.
The above mirror works well.
Cheers,
zedkatuf.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thanks for the reply.
I have pdaxrom flashed on my C700 now. However, I'm really keen on getting a chrooted debian environment .
I need the following on my Z.
GTK 2
PERL
RUBY
PYTHON
Questions:
Would pocketworkstation work with PdaXrom?
Does Debian use the PdaXrom X server or run its on?
How will this run on the C700?
Final Question:
Am I going about this all wrong? Do I need to put debian on my C700 to achieve getting the packages above?
My goal is to use the PDA to develop RFID applications. I have an ACG reader (CF2) card and need the dev capabilities above.
CHeers!!!!
JP
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139583\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
pdaXrom already has gtk2, python, perl and maybe even ruby and you can just compile it if it doesn't. why are you so obsessed with debian?
the question you should be asking is whether the Zaurus will even recognise your RFID card and whether you will be able to use it in the first place since you would need to get the appropriate kernel modules compiled for it if they don't exist yet. pocketworkstation does not have its own kernel for the Zaurus so it would be quite useless.
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Thanks for the reply.
I have pdaxrom flashed on my C700 now. However, I'm really keen on getting a chrooted debian environment .
I need the following on my Z.
GTK 2
PERL
RUBY
PYTHON
Questions:
Would pocketworkstation work with PdaXrom?
Does Debian use the PdaXrom X server or run its on?
How will this run on the C700?
Final Question:
Am I going about this all wrong? Do I need to put debian on my C700 to achieve getting the packages above?
My goal is to use the PDA to develop RFID applications. I have an ACG reader (CF2) card and need the dev capabilities above.
CHeers!!!!
JP
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139583\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
pdaXrom already has gtk2, python, perl and maybe even ruby and you can just compile it if it doesn't. why are you so obsessed with debian?
the question you should be asking is whether the Zaurus will even recognise your RFID card and whether you will be able to use it in the first place since you would need to get the appropriate kernel modules compiled for it if they don't exist yet. pocketworkstation does not have its own kernel for the Zaurus so it would be quite useless.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[/quote]
Well.. I'm not obsessed with debian. It's just something that I'm comfortable with.
I didn't know that perl was included.. "perl" from the command line says command not found. DO I need to install it from a feed?
As for the hardware goes.. there is an .ipk for the RfDump program but I don't think I need any drivers for it? I'll look more into that.
I'm guessing that linux talks to it like a modem or something ( 9600 baud so on )
The more I use pdaxrom the more I like it I must say. It was freezing a lot on me until I deleted a lot of files from my CF and SD for some reason. Not it's working a lot better. It seemed this was just with the pointer ( bash would still respond )
Thanks
JP
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\")
Did the arm board help with OOo?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Is this of any use from the pdaXrom
[a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14089&pid=144540&st=135&#entry144540]Link[/url]
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dare I ask how it's going?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=137510\")
Does anyone know where to download zaurus-debian-big-v0.15.tgz ?
All the sites are down now???
JP
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Later version but I've just installed Meanie's debian jumbo from here
[a href=\"http://www.chuckster.org/zaurus/]http://www.chuckster.org/zaurus/[/url]
Hats off to Meanie, after several months of toying with debian under pdaXrom but getting frustrated by simple things like suspend reume I've gone back to the Sharp ROM and this package makes it so easy. Thanks Meanie, it rocks!
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Hi
Here I am again wondering what to do with my Z. So much promise and really a bit of a non-event.
I have gone through sharp, OZ, pdaxrom, cacko, and recently pdaxqtrom, and annoyingly I have not found what I'm looking for.
I don't (better say this) want to undermine the multitude of hours spent by you coders pushing your various envelopes... It's great to be able to try new stuff. I have had fun trying things. But really at the end of the day the Z still doesn't do what we all know it can.
What I want; coz I know it can, and it would, if I could, but I cant:
1) PIM apps that work... alarms, wake from suspend, that APM thing, just like everybody else's PDA... why I left pdaxrom.
2) Fully fledged office apps, not crappy Hancom, OOO would be nice but Abiword + Gnumeric are great; but I need X11 for them, right?
3) Firefox so I can share bookmarks with my desktop. And so what I see on my Z is plausibly close to what I would see on my desktop.
4) Rox so I can navigate and change my filesystem via a GUI. Really ROX is brilliant. Again X11. Why is there still no OPIE/Sharp/OZ/Cacko (whatever) ROX?
5) Stuff that happens nice and quick (reflash back to Cacko after pdaxrom, and what a revelation).
Jeez. I have had my 860 for a couple of years now, and I still am not happy because it still doesn't do what I want. I think the above list is a pretty good benchmark for an (get this) non-programmer type user. Can someone tell me there is something out there that does this - er, out of the box? - without having to install X on top of Y on top of Z.
Sorry for the rant, and as I am a non programmer I am just an end-user. And I am sorry if your latest version of whatever does all the above and somehow I missed it - tell me - but hey ho despite the above I remain convinced that the Z is remarkable.
Best wishes
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Hi
Here I am again wondering what to do with my Z. So much promise and really a bit of a non-event.
I have gone through sharp, OZ, pdaxrom, cacko, and recently pdaxqtrom, and annoyingly I have not found what I'm looking for.
I don't (better say this) want to undermine the multitude of hours spent by you coders pushing your various envelopes... It's great to be able to try new stuff. I have had fun trying things. But really at the end of the day the Z still doesn't do what we all know it can.
What I want; coz I know it can, and it would, if I could, but I cant:
1) PIM apps that work... alarms, wake from suspend, that APM thing, just like everybody else's PDA... why I left pdaxrom.
2) Fully fledged office apps, not crappy Hancom, OOO would be nice but Abiword + Gnumeric are great; but I need X11 for them, right?
3) Firefox so I can share bookmarks with my desktop. And so what I see on my Z is plausibly close to what I would see on my desktop.
4) Rox so I can navigate and change my filesystem via a GUI. Really ROX is brilliant. Again X11. Why is there still no OPIE/Sharp/OZ/Cacko (whatever) ROX?
5) Stuff that happens nice and quick (reflash back to Cacko after pdaxrom, and what a revelation).
Jeez. I have had my 860 for a couple of years now, and I still am not happy because it still doesn't do what I want. I think the above list is a pretty good benchmark for an (get this) non-programmer type user. Can someone tell me there is something out there that does this - er, out of the box? - without having to install X on top of Y on top of Z.
Sorry for the rant, and as I am a non programmer I am just an end-user. And I am sorry if your latest version of whatever does all the above and somehow I missed it - tell me - but hey ho despite the above I remain convinced that the Z is remarkable.
Best wishes
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
you need an iZaurus, ie the shiny white SL-C3000 running pdaXii13. it does everything you want ...
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Meanie, if I had that Zaurus, what ROM would I be running on it?
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Meanie, if I had that Zaurus, what ROM would I be running on it?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
you wont be running a ROM but a distro which is pdaXii13
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Meanie, if I had that Zaurus, what ROM would I be running on it?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
you wont be running a ROM but a distro which is pdaXii13
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
OK. Could you recommend a route for those of us not able to splash out on yet another gadget? My original point being that having tried a number of ROMs on my c860 I find that none of them fulfil my basic needs - as mentioned - which is a pity as the hardware is certainly capable of it.
BTW, the reason I am discussing this here is because of pleas above (from koen) asking for what folks are after, so my tupenny worth, and because it started with a c860. Think I probably need to refamiliarize myself with the whole thread, including some of your earlier contributions.
Thanks