OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => New products and alternatives => Topic started by: zmiq2 on November 06, 2006, 09:08:07 am
-
Ceratinly this is going to be my next zaurus !
http://www.i4u.com/article7020.html (http://www.i4u.com/article7020.html)
-
It is can be easily hacked to run linux... yes...
Late
-
I don't think that this is in the same category as a Zaurus (for me, at least). It's too large to fit in a pocket. It does look pretty nice, however.
-
I have sent messages to conics and pricejapan to see if they can get hold of them. I'll post results.
-
Looks interesting but, it is not a Zaurus replacement for me. It's too big for me and I'll bet the battery life bites. I tried replacing my Psion 3a with a Libretto 50ct a few years back. That was a disaster. You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.
-
You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145658\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Amen. Technology shouldn't slow us down.
That's why I love the old Tandy Model 10X's!
-
indeed... this is why I still use a Palm T3 as a PIM.
-
You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145658\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Amen. Technology shouldn't slow us down.
That's why I love the old Tandy Model 10X's!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145661\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Eeh.
My TRS-80 CoCo was instant-on too.
(it might take 5-10 minutes to load things up from tape, mind you...)
-
I go back and forth on these mini laptops. It is definitely cool. It definitely won't fit in my pocket, but will take up little, or no, more space in my bag than my z + accessories. Maybe this +smartphone is a solution? But then laptop +smartphone has been the typical approach in the US.
What it boils down to is whether to compare this to a zaurus or a larger small laptop. Pricewise (it said something like starting at $750) it is more reasonable than other big small devices, and only mrginally higher than a basic laptop.
Today, I like my Z and wouldn't trade it for something not pocketable. tomorrow maybe I'll want a standard x86 distro and leave the embedded porting issues behind...
-
You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.Â
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145658\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Amen. Technology shouldn't slow us down.
That's why I love the old Tandy Model 10X's!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145661\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Eeh.
My TRS-80 CoCo was instant-on too.
(it might take 5-10 minutes to load things up from tape, mind you...)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Umm. The traditional definition of Instant on refers to a feature where the device basically remembers the previous state when the unit is turned back on. It does this by keeping the processor, real time clock and memory powered while the rest of the unit is powered down. The CoCo did not have instant on capabilities which is why you needed to load programs when you turned it back on. The Tandy Model 10X's had a more limited Instant on functionality then listed above but it did have the feature.
-
Looks like one of the UMPC's that have a lot of promise, but not too sure of the form factor - I've gotten so used to the size of my C3100.
-
more news about the SA1F00A on aki' news:
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-12751...nformation.html (http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-12751-SA1F00A%2C+we+now+have+more+information.html)
* 500MHz AMD GEODE CS5536 CPU
* 40GB hard disk
* 512MB of RAM
* 7†display, with a resolution of 800x480
* SD and CF port
* Wi-Fi
* Bluetooth
* weight 960g
* case can withstand a 100kg pressure
* measures 218x163x25.4mm
should be available in December for 670.00 euro
-- edit --
contrast this with the Z:
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Sharp-Zaurus-C3200.htm (http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Sharp-Zaurus-C3200.htm)
"4.9 x 3.4 x 1.0 inches (124 x 87 x 25mm). Weight: 10.5 ounces (298 grams)", i.e. 3200 is quarter of the area (same thickness) slightly less than third of the weight.
-
actually i saw this today and was rather imressed, i didnt think the umpc design would ever get that thin (makes me think twice about the pocket penguine idea)
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/samsung...s-xp-at-75-mph/ (http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/samsungs-sph-p9000-deluxe-mits-windows-xp-at-75-mph/)
-
actually i saw this today and was rather imressed, i didnt think the umpc design would ever get that thin (makes me think twice about the pocket penguine idea)
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/samsung...s-xp-at-75-mph/ (http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/samsungs-sph-p9000-deluxe-mits-windows-xp-at-75-mph/)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145722\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I saw that too. very sexy. seems to be wimax only, no wifi, and I can't tell if EV-DO means it's got 3G/W-CDMA functionality or not.
-
It has cf, so I can re-use my great amount of zaurus-cf accessories: bluetooth, wifi, gprs, eternet, modem.
-
I got a reply from Brett at conics...
looks like it will be shipping from start of December, we are waiting for the company to get back to us with prices...
unfortunately, usually these small companies have little or no reduction in price for resellers, (oqo and flybook are like that)
so I'm guessing price will probably be approx 89,800 yen + 2000yen local shipping + 5% (our fee) + 6000 yen (approx EMS insured postage)
so a total of 103000 yen approx, or US$875; GBP460; EU685.
not quite such a zaurus killer, or still a bargain? Well, conics sell Z 3200 for US$500-ish, so it's quite a price premium.
anyway, it's available for order at Conics now. do shout if you buy one. if anyone wins the lottery and wants to buy me one too so I can help get linux working on it, do PM me
-
This looks realy cool to me. I paid $750 for my SL-C760 a little over three years ago, so $875 isn't a big premium compared to what I paid. A device that can run XP or Linux would be really appealing to me. I can't even VPN into my company, or check my work email via the web from a Linux machine.
Like someone else said, it really wouldn't take much more space in my bag than the Z+stuff, and with the buit in USB (keyboard/mouse) and VGA out (monitor), it really could be my "only computer."
-
..... I can't even VPN into my company, or check my work email via the web from a Linux machine. ......
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145828\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Geez, clofland it sounds like we are working for the same company.
Everytime I bring this up with the IT higher ups; I get shot down. Very frustrating.
-
I can't even VPN into my company, or check my work email via the web from a Linux machine.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145828\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
is that because you haven't got a working vpn client for the Z, or because the corporate policy is not to allow non-windows or non-corporate devices?
-
This thing is almost exactly the same size as my Libretto U100 - but it has the touchscreen. I'm seriously tempted to pick one up to check it out.
(The no-touchscreen aspect of my Libby bugs me, as does the substandard keyboard. This new device has basically everything I could ask for in the same size package...)
-
can you run linux on it though!!!!! how long is battery life? is it touch screen?
-
can you run linux on it though!!!!! how long is battery life? is it touch screen?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145839\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Linux - Yes. The Geode series processors are 100% X86 compatible. How well linux runs will come down to driver support, like it always does.
Battery Life - Likely not too bad. The LX800 processor is an extremely low power unit designed for the embedded market:
LX 800@0.9W: clock speed: 500 MHz, with power consumption: 1.3 watts. (from wikipedia). There may be performance issues - the Geode processors have never been known for their screamingly fast number crunching
Touch Screen: Of course it is - it's a convertable tablet.
*EDIT* Apparently it is NOT a touchscreen device. Buggerbuggerbuggerbuggerbugger. Seems that I won't be replacing my Libretto quite yet...
-
*EDIT* Apparently it is NOT a touchscreen device. Buggerbuggerbuggerbuggerbugger. Seems that I won't be replacing my Libretto quite yet...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145848\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Then what's the point of it being convertible!!?? Freaking morons... Got my hopes up too.
-
so, you can turn it into tablet, but then you'd have to use an external mouse or some handheld trackball to control it?
d'uh!
-
It has a pointing stick on the side of the screen - so an external mouse isn't required.
-
The spec:
http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sa/spec.html (http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sa/spec.html)
It seems to be an interesting machine, what I wonder is the real performance.
-
The spec:
http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sa/spec.html (http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sa/spec.html)
It seems to be an interesting machine, what I wonder is the real performance.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=145865\")
rough English translation
[a href=\"http://conics.net/temp/sa1f00/specs-KOHJINSHA.html]here[/url]
regards,
-Brett
-
http://www.dynamism.com/sa1/main.shtml (http://www.dynamism.com/sa1/main.shtml)
-
The specs sound good, but I have not heard about the company and its product quality.
Let's wait and see.
With recent breakthrough of porting Mac OS X onto X86, my dream of having Mac OS X running on such small device will be very near.
Please note that current visualization software, like Parallels, allows installation of Windows XP and Vista, Linux on top of Mac OS X. By then, I have all popular OSes on one machine.
-
hmm, dynamism say it IS a touch screen. so, who's right?
-
There are two built-in mouse input device ... touchpad and pointing stick on the left side of the screen.
No touchscreen. Otherwise, it would be ideal.
-
Well, I emailed Dynamism about these things a couple days ago, they replied that they would look into it. Now they're available for pre-order.
Way to go Dynamism!
I emailed Japan-Direct.com the same day, let's see if they can beat D's $999 price tag.
-
There's a review about this unit unit at pc.watch.impress.co.jp.
For us japanese-less people, here's the google-translated link, which doesn't help much:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%...n&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2F2006%2F1110%2Fhotrev313.htm&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8)
Can any japanese speaking guy confirm whether or not it's a touchscreen ?
-
I don't speak Japanese, but it's definitely not a touchscreen. I went through the spec page and machine translated all the "footnotes". Footnote #10 on the "Double pointing device" seems pretty clear (even in its machine translated form):
10. (1) touch pad (the substance front), (2) stick pointer (on LCD side side with scroll button and mouse button arrangement).
The lack of a touch screen is actually a pro in my book. No need for screen protectors, no XP Tablet edition nonsense, and one less custom hardware device standing in the way of a Linux port.
For me the only negative of this slick little micro notebook is what Engadget refers to as the "scrolleriffic 800 x 480" LCD. But that's still 25% more screen real estate than my C760, and in a much less eyestrain inducing size. I hate to say it, but I think my Z's days may be numbered.
-
I checked the original review in Japanese, and indeed it does not have a touchscreen. Major minus. Other than that, I'd be ditching the Zaurus in favor of this machine + HTC Hermes combo in a second.
-
I would move to this machine (linux_installed) + new_FIC_linux_hackable phone !! That's a win-win !
-
Price Japan may be everyones best bet.
rakuten.co.jp lists the SA1F00A @ 89,800.00 JPY = 760.081 USD
-
I wouldn't ditch my Zaurus for this but I would use it as my primary laptop at work.
-
I've been using a Sony TX2 for a little while now and runs linux very well (sony had a fit of madness and put an SD card slot in it too), so much so that I'm probably going to make an offer and keep it. It's got SO much integrated in it that you don't need a great big bag to carry things, just a modem cable and ethernet! The *only* thing which could make it better would be TV-out and tablet mode with touch screen. Thus, I don't think I'll be trading to this one, as I've got a C3100 on its way to me, but maybe its successor will have touchscreen.
I still think a C3500W = C3200 with 512M RAM and Wireless would be a simple but HUGE win.
-
The TX2 looks like a sweet laptop, but at $2K+ we're talking about a whole different class of device. There are probably lots of Z alternatives if "money is no object". The more interesting question is: if you cap the price at around that of an SL-3200 ($600 - $700 including accessories), what are the alternatives?
I use my Z mainly as an ultra-portable thin client. Hardware wise I need WiFi, Bluetooth, and a keyboard. Software wise I need a full web browser, email, VNC, SSH, IM, a good text editor (Vim), a basic spreadsheet, and a bash shell. The Kohjinsha is the first gadget I've seen since Sharp introduced the clamshell series that seems to meet all those requirements at anything even close to the Z's price.
How about it? Are there other gadgets I should be considering that meet the above criteria and are a) still in production, B) under $900? Or are Sharp and Kohjinsha the only other games in town?
-
The TX2 looks like a sweet laptop, but at $2K+ we're talking about a whole different class of device. There are probably lots of Z alternatives if "money is no object". The more interesting question is: if you cap the price at around that of an SL-3200 ($600 - $700 including accessories), what are the alternatives?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146265\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
before people assume I'm rich, I got my TX2 discounted as remaindered shop-soiled stock now that the TX3 is out... paid much much less than that. It's about as small as you can get before it fails to be a laptop and fails to be an oversized PDA. I'm wondering whether this Kohjinsha would fail to be either PDA or laptop, especially with lack of touchscreen. I carry a gadget bag, a small camcorder bag, with me most of the time, contains my digicam, Palm, Zaurus, accessories etc; if the Kohjinsha was too big, I could see myself leaving it at home too often.
There's also the issue of using it at work. People are allowed to use PDAs, but not personal laptops, so the Z escapes attention (other than as a "wow" gadget), but the K would almost certainly not.
Probably, it'd come down to individual tastes. Perhaps the reality is that until we get roll-up screens so that you can have something as small as a Z which unfolds/unrolls to an 8" display, there's not going to be a perfect device.
Sorry about the long stream of consciousness.
-
The TX2 looks like a sweet laptop, but at $2K+ we're talking about a whole different class of device. There are probably lots of Z alternatives if "money is no object". The more interesting question is: if you cap the price at around that of an SL-3200 ($600 - $700 including accessories), what are the alternatives?
I use my Z mainly as an ultra-portable thin client. Hardware wise I need WiFi, Bluetooth, and a keyboard. Software wise I need a full web browser, email, VNC, SSH, IM, a good text editor (Vim), a basic spreadsheet, and a bash shell. The Kohjinsha is the first gadget I've seen since Sharp introduced the clamshell series that seems to meet all those requirements at anything even close to the Z's price.
How about it? Are there other gadgets I should be considering that meet the above criteria and are a) still in production, under $900? Or are Sharp and Kohjinsha the only other games in town?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146265\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I believe a Nokia 770 tablet with a BT keyboard would meet your requirements quite well, for less than half your upper limit, with the screen resolution of the Kohjinsha and the form factor of a Z.
Before you throw up your arms in indignation, let me just state that I was myself a diehard clamshell-with-keyboard fan for almost ten years, with several Psion Series5 models and a Z760. I allowed myself to be tempted by the 770's low price, but found over the past year that what I bought as a gadget has become the most extensively used of all the mobile devices I've tried.
I was surprised to find that the lack of integrated keyboard wasn't after all the nuisance I expected it to be, and that I actually use the separate BT keyboard less often than I thought I would. The screen, onboard Wifi and BT are what really count.
Of course, if we could have a standalone, BT version of the Psion5's keyboard, things might be different :-)
-
I believe a Nokia 770 tablet with a BT keyboard would meet your requirements quite well, for less than half your upper limit, with the screen resolution of the Kohjinsha and the form factor of a Z.
You know what, based on kopsis' requirements, fpp seems to be right! Dang, I may have to go dust off my770 and take another look.
-
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?
Maybe I could also live with a 770 with a keyboard as a replacement. The Kohjinsha, while it looks great is just a tad above the price limit I would afford for a smallish device. And until linux is proven to run on it will hold off.
That is another point I have noticed - that all Zaurus replacements are more of a Desktop Linux machine in a small size unlike the Zaurus which was embedded Linux. Which makes me think that to prep myself up for such a full fledged linux machine , maybe I should switch to PDAXROM and get a taste of desktop like linux on a small package.
-
i belive i am currentlly in the market for a Z replacment as the compiling issues are a PITA. the new sony UMPC looks good but what do others thing about the OQO and other UMPC,s on the market. personally they are a bit big (at least a Z will fit in my pocket) but they nearly all have wifi, bluetooth, USB and VGA out
-
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?
Maybe I could also live with a 770 with a keyboard as a replacement. The Kohjinsha, while it looks great is just a tad above the price limit I would afford for a smallish device. And until linux is proven to run on it will hold off.
That is another point I have noticed - that all Zaurus replacements are more of a Desktop Linux machine in a small size unlike the Zaurus which was embedded Linux. Which makes me think that to prep myself up for such a full fledged linux machine , maybe I should switch to PDAXROM and get a taste of desktop like linux on a small package.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
That is kind of an issue for me.... if I am going to spend @ $750 us for a pint sized laptop with a really slow processor that won't fit in my pocket, why wouldn't I spend about $200 less for a regular commercial laptop with a 14" screen and a much more powerful processor/ peripheral set (and a full sized keyboard)? I mean if I already have to carry the bag, why not save the $$ and get the performance? an extra battery would help with the battery life issues.....
I like the idea of a tiny low powered laptop, I do. but I'm not sure if it makes sense for me.
-
i belive i am currentlly in the market for a Z replacment as the compiling issues are a PITA. the new sony UMPC looks good but what do others thing about the OQO and other UMPC,s on the market. personally they are a bit big (at least a Z will fit in my pocket) but they nearly all have wifi, bluetooth, USB and VGA out
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
One good thing about this Kohjinsha is the low power consumption compared to the still power-sucking UMPCs.
Then again, for me pocketability (i mean it literally) is one of the major factors to pick a mobile device.
-
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
turned out to be a misinformed rumour about the 330 GPS unit.
-
I do like the Nokia 770. In fact I have one on order to use as part of a demo I'm working on. However, I don't see where the 770 does much that my C760 doesn't. Anything that's going to replace my Z (at least prior to the day when it eventually breaks) needs to offer something more such as a bigger screen, better software compatibility (i.e. x86 based), huge hard drive, etc. The 770's built-in WiFi is nice, but not enought to compell a switch.
I don't need pocketable ... I don't pocket my Z as it is (my smartphone covers all my PIM and "walking around" computing needs). I've tried the conventional laptop approach but even a 13" MacBook is a bit bigger/heavier/hotter than what I really want -- and it's definitely way overpowered for the apps I need. It just seems wrong to crank up a multi-GHz Core2 Duo just to take notes in a meeting.
I like the UMPCs but the prices just seem outrageous. And they too pack much more horsepower than what I really need. I guess I'm really just after a slightly larger form-factor (bigger KB and display) Zaurus with built in wireless.
-
Talking about this perfect synergy of size, form-factor and power and pocketability,
I always thought the Sharp Zaurus SL-6000 size, with 4" outdoors viewable screen in the C1000 form factor of a tablet with the larger sized keyboard would have been perfect. Add internal Wifi to that (which the 6000 already had) would have been a great device.
They only needed to iterate the SL6000 once more in the tablet form factor - wishful thinking though.
-
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
turned out to be a misinformed rumour about the 330 GPS unit.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The first one did, indeed. But since then there have been quite a few facts popping up here and there (a page on the FCC Website, hints on the developers' mailing list, a recent OS update with stuff in the kernel for hardware that isn't in the 770, etc.) that point to a major hardware upgrade just around the bend. I just hope it's in time for Christmas :-)
-
. . . needs to offer something more such as a bigger screen, better software compatibility (i.e. x86 based), huge hard drive, etc.
How about a pepperpad then? USB 2.0, 20 GB drive, X86 compatible (geode processor with Fedora Core 4), wifi, bluetooth, 7in 800x480 screen, USD700 on amazon, and *not* pocketable.
-
How about a pepperpad then?
I like the PP3 hardware, though I do wish they included more RAM and a bigger HD. I know those components are theoretically upgradable, but then one has to factor in the upgrade costs.
On a side note, I really wish companies would quit integrating !@#$% webcams into devices. It's bad enough that when I get a new phone I have to void the warranty the first day by ripping the stupid camera out. I hate having to do the same on a considerably more expensive gadget. I'm sure I can't be the only person working for a company that doesn't permit cameras in the office.
I appreciate all the suggestions, but the bottom line is that the Kohjinsha is pretty close to the perfect device for my (admitedly peculiar) needs. I think I'll give it a shot and see how it works out. If I don't like it, there's always Ebay If Conics can get me hooked up in early Dec, I should have time to write a pretty detailed review over the holidays. Stay tuned.
-
I like the kohjinsha for x86 compatibility and no-fans, and huge RAM and price, but the screen it's a little too big.
I'm also considering and so waiting for the next oqo, and/or nokia 770 which seem to appear soon. I'd be willing to wait for a new Zaurus, but that's not even vaporware.
Kopsis, make sure to take some photos of the K next to the Z!!
-
I've got a Kohjinsha on order from Conics for a friend of mine, and we've done quite a bit of research on it. Interesting fact - the Raon Vega, Kohjinsha, and Pepperpad 3 all run the same basic hardware platform (Geode LX800 processor + chipset, 800x480 screens.) The chipset handles video and most IO.
This gives us a lot more info to go on.
1) Linux Compatibility - Excellent. The pepperpad 3 is linux.
2) Performance - I think it was around a PII-300 for integer performance.
3) Video - 2D only, and they mean it. No DirectX/3D support, period. They apparently couldn't get iTunes to run on the Vega because of it.
4) Movies - Excellent. Apparently the Pepperpad is used for video quite extensively. I also found a review of the Vega that said Divx up to 2 megabit worked flawlessly. Supposedly there is video acceleration function in the supporting chipset. The painfully machine-translated review (which gave me "bad HK-subtitle" flashbacks) said there was a problem playing DVDs (I think). I suspect that's got more to do with the drive & interface. I bet that loading a DVD image directly on the the HD and playing the files from there would work perfectly.
5) Battery life - Supposedly excellent (5hrs?) LED backlight + super low power CPU should hopefully translate into decent power savings.
The guy who's going to be using it has a 860 and a 3000, but he seems a bit jealous of my Libretto He's going to be using it for eBooks, web surfing, game emulation, and watching movies.
(Also, he's got a nasty sense of humour. Someone he knows bought laptops for his daughters - two girls ~5 foot and 100lbs if you're lucky. The father is a hefty guy over 6ft tall. He bought them a pair of 12lb desktop replacement laptops without thinking much of it. These girls list to one side if they try and take the things anywhere Anyway, my friend thinks that showing off the Kohjinsha to bug these girls is an "added benefit" Yes, he's single and likely to remain that way...)
-
I stumbled across another Japanese review of the SA1F00A ... and this one includes disassembly photos! Links are on my blog entry at http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/BlogEntry/2006/11/30 (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/BlogEntry/2006/11/30)
I have an SA1F00B (80GB HDD) on order from Conics (just waiting for the eCheck to clear), so in a few weeks there will be at least one English review on the web
-
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
turned out to be a misinformed rumour about the 330 GPS unit.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Offtopic - but just to update everyone the successor is out - the Nokia 870. But sadly no keyboard as expected.
(see Noia 870 post in the Nokia forum section)
-
Hi,
Conics has a mini review of the device:
http://www.conics.net/temp/kohjinsha.html (http://www.conics.net/temp/kohjinsha.html)
Note that the CF slot is Type-1 only so no microdrive.
Enjoy
-
My SA1F00B from Conics arrived yesterday (thanks Brett!). Some of my first thoughts:
* Most people can't believe how small it is (though after using the C760 for years, it seems quite roomy to me)
* 800x480 is much more usable than I expected
* Display size and quality is quite good
* Keyboard is going to take some getting used to (and possibly a bit of remapping)
* The CPU seems plenty fast for surfing and office apps
And yes, CF is Type 1 only ... though a Type 2 would fit if it weren't for a couple ribs molded into the case that look like they're there specifically to block a Type 2 card. I suspect that Kohjinsha may have originally designed it for Type 2 and then found problems in testing. Perhaps heat related issues? Microdrives get pretty toasty and the CF slot is right next to the CPU's heat sink.
I'll blog some more detailed initial thoughts this weekend and a long-term review in a few weeks. If anyone has specific questions, feel free to PM me and I'll try to make sure I get them answered.
-
My SA1F00B from Conics arrived yesterday (thanks Brett!). Some of my first thoughts:
* Most people can't believe how small it is (though after using the C760 for years, it seems quite roomy to me)
* 800x480 is much more usable than I expected
* Display size and quality is quite good
* Keyboard is going to take some getting used to (and possibly a bit of remapping)
* The CPU seems plenty fast for surfing and office apps
And yes, CF is Type 1 only ... though a Type 2 would fit if it weren't for a couple ribs molded into the case that look like they're there specifically to block a Type 2 card. I suspect that Kohjinsha may have originally designed it for Type 2 and then found problems in testing. Perhaps heat related issues? Microdrives get pretty toasty and the CF slot is right next to the CPU's heat sink.
I'll blog some more detailed initial thoughts this weekend and a long-term review in a few weeks. If anyone has specific questions, feel free to PM me and I'll try to make sure I get them answered.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Nuts. I don't think mine's been shipped, nevermind received.
Have you tried any video on it? Will it boot from a USB DVD/CD-rom drive?
Thanks!
-
Kahm, when you do receive yours, can you compare with the Toshiba Libretto U100, since they are size-wise pretty close.
Having seen the little video demo at Conics, I am pretty much tempted to get one myself. But again how well will Linux load on this device and how fast - questions questions...
-
Have you tried any video on it? Will it boot from a USB DVD/CD-rom drive?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148147\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Just tried a little XVID video encoded at 720x480 at about 1400 kbps (w/ full DVD AC3 audio) using MPlayer for Windows and it worked great. Nice and smooth, no apparent dropped frames. Obviously a lot depends on the material and the encoding, but its definitely possible to get good results on the Kohjinsha.
As for USB booting, the BIOS has support for it (both optical and HD/flash drive) so it should work but I haven't had a chance to try it.
-
Just tried a little XVID video encoded at 720x480 at about 1400 kbps (w/ full DVD AC3 audio) using MPlayer for Windows and it worked great. Nice and smooth, no apparent dropped frames. Obviously a lot depends on the material and the encoding, but its definitely possible to get good results on the Kohjinsha.
As for USB booting, the BIOS has support for it (both optical and HD/flash drive) so it should work but I haven't had a chance to try it.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Perfect - just what we were expecting. I've got a USB CDRW laying around somewhere that I'll test it with.
Kahm, when you do receive yours, can you compare with the Toshiba Libretto U100, since they are size-wise pretty close.
I'm planning on writing up a very detailed comparison between the Libby, the Kohjinsha, and the Z. Its going to be apples to orange to bananas, though. The Libby costs more than twice as much as the Kohjinsha. I really see it positioned about halfway between the Z and the libby.
Having seen the little video demo at Conics, I am pretty much tempted to get one myself. But again how well will Linux load on this device and how fast - questions questions...
Linux should be pretty good - the Pepperpad 3 is an almost identical hardware platform and it runs Fedora core 4...
I *think* it's been shipped. My order at conics has a tracking number posted, but I didn'\t get an email or any other info. Quite unlike my last purchase from Conics (A Sony Libie ebook reader...)
-
Kahm, when you do receive yours, can you compare with the Toshiba Libretto U100, since they are size-wise pretty close.
I'm planning on writing up a very detailed comparison between the Libby, the Kohjinsha, and the Z. Its going to be apples to orange to bananas, though. The Libby costs more than twice as much as the Kohjinsha. I really see it positioned about halfway between the Z and the libby.
That's excactly what I would be most glad of - having a half-way point of upgrade to a worthy Zaurus replacement. I know that the U100 is damn costly, as a result of which the Kohjinsha appeals so much - price wise. And since size wise they are so similar - and if both do the same functionality (albeit the Kohjinsha at a slower pace because of its slower chip), then getting the Kohjinsha becomes more acceptable over the Libby U100.
Thansk Kahm. Looking forweard to the side by side comparisons soon.
(and stowing all all the extra money under the mattress, me thinks, will get this little beauty).
-
I'd be interested in your opinion on how usable Firefox and OpenOffice feel on this bugger, compared to MSIE and MSOffice...
TIA,
fp
-
I would be interested in seeing side-to-side comparison picures with a Zaurus.
Would that be possible?
PS.- it seems that the oqo 2 has been sent to FCC for approval, so soon we'll have another option, probably double the price though (seen at engadget.com)
-
I would be interested in seeing side-to-side comparison picures with a Zaurus.
Would that be possible?
PS.- it seems that the oqo 2 has been sent to FCC for approval, so soon we'll have another option, probably double the price though (seen at engadget.com)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148295\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have a new camera to play with. I'll be shooting everything from my 15" IBM A21p all the way down the Zaurus. I could also include the Libretto 110CT and 50CT/50M, and a Panasonic Toughbook CF-M34 if anyone wants
-
I'd like to see it next to the Libretto U100, as I own one and was interested in the size difference. I am finding that I don't need something as powerful as the Libretto and having something with a longer than 3 hour battery life would be more appropriate for what I use the Libretto for.
-
kahm,
you are my hero for having such amount of computing power but in small packages! i wonder where do you get all that cash and that waf (wife acceptance factor) ;-)
-
Kopsis (and anyone esle who already has it in their hands), how does the Kohjinsha feel ruggedness wise in the hands and on the road ? Does it have that built-strong feeling or is it flimsy and breakable kind of construction (cheap usually means some cut-backs in the build department) ?
-
I'd like to see it next to the Libretto U100, as I own one and was interested in the size difference. I am finding that I don't need something as powerful as the Libretto and having something with a longer than 3 hour battery life would be more appropriate for what I use the Libretto for.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148508\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
From the dimensions, it will be about the same size as a Libby. It will *seem* a bit bigger because i'm including the battery pack sticking out of the back of the Libby when I'm comparing dimensions. Weight is a hair less (20g)?
-
Kopsis (and anyone esle who already has it in their hands), how does the Kohjinsha feel ruggedness wise in the hands and on the road ? Does it have that built-strong feeling or is it flimsy and breakable kind of construction (cheap usually means some cut-backs in the build department) ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148549\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
For it's size and weight, the Kohjinsha feels like a pretty solid machine. No creaking or flexing when you handle it. The hinge feels smooth and strong with no play or "slop". The LCD is behind a solid piece of clear plastic that extends all the way to the edges of the lid, so the LCD itself is not exposed. Obviously there's no fragile touch-screen to worry about. Supposedly Kohjinsha has tested it to withstand 100 kg load with the lid closed -- but I don't think I'm brave enought to try to verify their results
A Panasonic Toughbook it's not , but in general I'd say the Kohjinsha feels much more solid than most of the Sony and Dell laptops I've used. I think it's safe to say that the cost savings came from strategic component selection (800x480 screen with no touch panel, AMD Geode 800LX CPU, etc.) and not from cutting corners on mechanical design and construction.
-
So Dave :
On your blog you mentioned being on the road with your new toy this week... how did that go ? :-)
-
So Dave :
On your blog you mentioned being on the road with your new toy this week... how did that go ? :-)
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=148626\")
I haven't had time to get the photos in, but the text of my SA1F mini-review is [a href=\"http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaMiniReview]now online[/url].
This is a sneak preview of the review exclusively for OESF members. Please don't post it elsewhere or link to it yet. I'll get photos in sometime next week and link a blog post to it and then it's fair game
-
Please don't post it elsewhere or link to it yet.[/i]
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148667\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Resisting urge... resisting urge...
-
Thanks for the derailed review Dave ! It appeared in your RSS feed this morning so I guess it's not supersecret anymore :-)
I have been grappling with reasons NOT to buy yet another dispensable gadget, and think I'm losing yet again... :-)
-
I haven't had time to get the photos in, but the text of my SA1F mini-review is now online (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaMiniReview).
This is a sneak preview of the review exclusively for OESF members. Please don't post it elsewhere or link to it yet. I'll get photos in sometime next week and link a blog post to it and then it's fair game
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148667\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Nice review.
I *think* that my friend's Kohjinsha will be arriving either tomorrow or Tuesday. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to give it a thorough review like you have - my friend is understandably chomping at the bit to get his hands on it, so I'll barely have time to power it up and take some photos (Although, I *would* like to take a stab at Linux on it. Probably won't be for a while, though.)
I fully understand your productivity comment Most people are shocked by the size of my Libby - it's most commonly mistaken for a portable dvd player...
-
My non-stop stream of Kohjinsha propoganda continues ...
My review (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaMiniReview) now has photos (and a few edits since I originally posted the link).
I've also posted a page of Z vs. Kohjinsha pics (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaZaurusPhotos).
-
Very nice... just nice...
seeing your pics beside the Zaurus as well as the Akihabara video of the Kohjinsha, I am already drooling for it now.
I think this size is just right for my ultra portable needs and for the rest of the times, the Zaurus stays in my pockets ALL the time.
The only last point being loading Lnux on this beauty and having the Zaurus work seamlessly with the Kohjinsha (which should be the same way it works with my desktop).
Oh, sorry, there is actually one last point - the most important point -
convincing my wife to go with me on this one (she has been all for a Mac laptop for a small size, cause she knows I can't stand a big laptop, but like all users, this small and she starts thinking PDA again).
-
It looks like Kohjinsha have been taken by surprise with the success of the SA1 (somewhat like Nokia with the 770 last year). I have one on order directly from Japan through an acquaintance there, and he says they're clean out of stock everywhere, even in Akihabara...
-
Very nice... just nice...
seeing your pics beside the Zaurus as well as the Akihabara video of the Kohjinsha, I am already drooling for it now.
I think this size is just right for my ultra portable needs and for the rest of the times, the Zaurus stays in my pockets ALL the time.
My thoughts exactly (except with a 770 instead of a Z :-)
The only last point being loading Lnux on this beauty and having the Zaurus work seamlessly with the Kohjinsha (which should be the same way it works with my desktop).
Dave did his quick test with a Knoppix Live CD - the mother of all Linux Live CDs, but rather technical and no longer on the bleeding edge of user-friendliness I suppose. I wonder if a more desktop-oriented distribution like Ubuntu or even Mandriva would fare better at hardware support ?...
-
seeing your pics beside the Zaurus as well as the Akihabara video of the Kohjinsha, I am already Oh, sorry, there is actually one last point - the most important point -
convincing my wife to go with me on this one (she has been all for a Mac laptop for a small size, [div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=148887\")
Aki have a review posted now: [a href=\"http://www.akihabaranews.com/review-73-X.html]http://www.akihabaranews.com/review-73-X.html[/url]
as for wife... work out how much she spends on her beauty each year (hair, nails etc), compare with cost for man's occasional haircut. Then explain that you NEED these gadgets to keep you busy while she's having her hair done...
-
Well, this is a great day with two fantastic Xmas presents : oesf forums are back online at last, and my SA1 is under the tree :-)
Merry Xmas to y'all !
-
Yaay! Forums are back.
Now, the forums went down the same day I got pictures of the Kohjinsha
Comparison pics with a Thinkpad, Libretto, Zaurii, screen comparisons, etc.
http://silicondependency.blogspot.com/2006...ha-sa1f00a.html (http://silicondependency.blogspot.com/2006/12/kohjinsha-sa1f00a.html)
-
Great pictures and photo review of the Kohjinsha vs the Libretto U100 and the Zaurus-es.
And wow ! "2 Zaurus deep and 3/4 zaurus wide" as compared against 4 of your Zaurii layed side by side against the Kohjinsha. Man, you are a true tech lover Kahn - you own 4 Zaurus-es ??? Plus the Kohjinsha and U100 and what not... I thought I had Tech lust. It must be nothing compared to your lust (or maybe your need).
Anyways thanks a lot for the photo review and comparisons.
-
Great pictures and photo review of the Kohjinsha vs the Libretto U100 and the Zaurus-es.
And wow ! "2 Zaurus deep and 3/4 zaurus wide" as compared against 4 of your Zaurii layed side by side against the Kohjinsha. Man, you are a true tech lover Kahn - you own 4 Zaurus-es ??? Plus the Kohjinsha and U100 and what not... I thought I had Tech lust. It must be nothing compared to your lust (or maybe your need).
Anyways thanks a lot for the photo review and comparisons.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=149212\")
You're welcome
I own 6 Zaurii - A 5000D, a 5500, a 6000, a 1000, a 3000, and a 3100. The second 3000 in the pictures belongs to the same fellow who owns the Kohjinsha (I took delivery of it for him, and I'm doing work on his 3000.) The Libretto is mine.
I have a fairly extensive collection of electronics. ([a href=\"http://www3.telus.net/~ranko/themobilecorps.JPG]For[/url] example (http://www3.telus.net/~ranko/pdaarmy.JPG)). Like the blog says - I suffer from Silicon Dependency Issues
-
I'll have to post some comparison photos of 3100 v 6000 v Sony TX
-
hahahah, seems like it pretty common around here
me personally i dont have a device that hasen been "hacked" in some way. nearly all my devices run linux bar 2 (PDA's) but those are running remastered windows CE firmwares i did myself
ill try and get a picture of my setup as well, just added was a case damadged o2 atom brining my PDA count up to 5, or perhaps we should start a "show off your collection" post
-
Thanks for all the reviews and cool photo's - the Kohjinsha looks fantastic.....but..... am I missing something? The price for this processor looks a bit high? The last few days I have been bidding on ebay for used laptops and I can get a much more powerful processor and better screen for less money.
What would be the advantage of the Kohjinsha over say a FUJITSU P5010D - just sold for $645 -
Brand:Fujitsu, Hard Drive Capacity: 60 GB, Screen Size: 11 inches, Processor Type:
Intel Pentium M, Centrino, Operating System: Windows XP Home, Primary Drive:
CD-RW/DVD Combo, Processor Speed: 900 MHz, Condition:Used, Memory (RAM): 512 MB
The size and battery life is almost the same...
The Libretto U100 regularly sell for $1000 - again - I am not trying to be rude, but am I missing something?
Thanks in advance for your help.
-
lower heat output,no ambient sound (no fans), weight, and most likly better battery life. plus a built in CF and SD slot
hackability would come into it as well.
the liberatto would be good if you need a bit of extra grunt and graphics power however this is a specilised device where the liberato while specilised is more "general pourpse"
-
Thanks for all the reviews and cool photo's - the Kohjinsha looks fantastic.....but..... am I missing something? The price for this processor looks a bit high? The last few days I have been bidding on ebay for used laptops and I can get a much more powerful processor and better screen for less money.
What would be the advantage of the Kohjinsha over say a FUJITSU P5010D - just sold for $645 -
Brand:Fujitsu, Hard Drive Capacity: 60 GB, Screen Size: 11 inches, Processor Type:
Intel Pentium M, Centrino, Operating System: Windows XP Home, Primary Drive:
CD-RW/DVD Combo, Processor Speed: 900 MHz, Condition:Used, Memory (RAM): 512 MB
The size and battery life is almost the same...
The Libretto U100 regularly sell for $1000 - again - I am not trying to be rude, but am I missing something?
Thanks in advance for your help.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149527\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Whoa there, partner. Check your ruler again. There is no comparison in size between the Fujitsu and the Libretto/Kojinsha.
Fujitsu - Libretto/Kohjinsha (Which is near enough to the Libretto)
3.85lbs - 2.2lbs
10.3"w - 8.1"w
7.8"d - 6.5"d
1.6"h - 1.5"h
That's like saying a Civic and a Smart Car are almost the same size because they're both sub-compacts.
There's a whole universe of difference in portability between an 11" laptop and a 7" one. If 11" is small enough for you - consider yourself lucky. My libretto was the first real "laptop" that I consider small enough and useful enough to haul around on a daily basis, and I've spent a lot of time and money looking. (Previous "small" laptops that I've owned and used - Fujitsu Stylistic 1000, Toshiba Libretto 50M, Toshiba Libretto 110CT, Toshiba Portege 310CDT, Panasonic Toughbook CF-M34 mkI)
The Kohjinsha is interesting because it provides 100% of the portability of the Libretto at a third of the (new) cost, and half the average eBay cost, while still providing 90% of the functionality. (It lacks the PC card slot, fingerprint reader, firewire port, and has a lower screen resolution, in addition to being slower. OTOH, it has tablet mode, which is much nicer for couch surfing than the Libby, and a better keyboard)
It also runs cooler, and is infinitely quieter than the Libby.
Personally, I would place it half way between the Libretto - an ultra portable but full featured laptop, and the Zaurus - A PDA that wishes it were a laptop. It fills the niche that Microsoft is trying to put it's poorly concieved UMPC/Origami machines in, and does it with style.
(OOH! Looking up the Fujitsu 5010 found me the 1510D - Same weight as the libby, 1" wider, but has a tablet mode and a touch screen! /me wants!!)
-
Thanks for your input Kham,
I would agree that there is a great advantage to the low noise and lack of heat generated by the Kohjinsha, but the processor seems sooo slow to me.... I currently have a IBM T22 with Kubuntu installed (P3 900 Mhz, 384megs ram), and I find this a bit on the slow side. My fear is that I would have a super portable device with the Kohjinsha but would have to wait constantly.
Are there any reviews that have posted benchmarks to give a good comparison for the speed? I have read reviews comparing the Kohjinsha to a P3 500mhz to P3 300 mmx.
It would be interesting to see the speed difference from WinXP and Puppy on this system.......
Thanks for you help,
-
Thanks for your input Kham,
I would agree that there is a great advantage to the low noise and lack of heat generated by the Kohjinsha, but the processor seems sooo slow to me.... I currently have a IBM T22 with Kubuntu installed (P3 900 Mhz, 384megs ram), and I find this a bit on the slow side. My fear is that I would have a super portable device with the Kohjinsha but would have to wait constantly.
Are there any reviews that have posted benchmarks to give a good comparison for the speed? I have read reviews comparing the Kohjinsha to a P3 500mhz to P3 300 mmx.
It would be interesting to see the speed difference from WinXP and Puppy on this system.......
Thanks for you help,
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
just my .02 usd, but with a lighter machine, maybe using lighter software than is included with kubuntu would be the way to go? A quick look at the packages in things like psaXrom Damn small linux and GPE would give you a good idea here, then just set it all up in your fav distro (doing it ground up in debian or gentoo or slack would probably be easier than cutting down ubuntu)
-
i am planning on turning it into a linux box thats mostly cmd line so low heat and noise is more important that cpu speed
if i can get good FB support then i can still use mplayer to watch moives so i am happy, perhaps even X on a FB to graphically surf the net (links is nice but its lacking some things)
-
Thanks for your input Kham,
I would agree that there is a great advantage to the low noise and lack of heat generated by the Kohjinsha, but the processor seems sooo slow to me.... I currently have a IBM T22 with Kubuntu installed (P3 900 Mhz, 384megs ram), and I find this a bit on the slow side. My fear is that I would have a super portable device with the Kohjinsha but would have to wait constantly.
Are there any reviews that have posted benchmarks to give a good comparison for the speed? I have read reviews comparing the Kohjinsha to a P3 500mhz to P3 300 mmx.
It would be interesting to see the speed difference from WinXP and Puppy on this system.......
Thanks for you help,
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have three words for you: Memory, Memory, Memory. Oh, and HD. THe IO on this thing is much faster than P3's that they're comparing the processor speed to, and that makes all the difference in the world. Plus, the 1gb maximum PC2700DDR ram means that the K will feel much faster than your P3900 with 384mb of PC133. This thing runs windows very, very well, and it only in very obviously CPU limited tasks that you notice you have a slow processor at all (HD/Large res Video, etc) Most standard tasks are IO or memory limited and those kinds of things run just fine on the K.
-
I hope your right Kham, if the increased memory and better HD increase the speed that much, I am getting very tempted to convert to the dark side (or should I say "K side")
I was reading an aritcle on the Roan Digital Vega, this uses the AMD LX800 processor chip and it claims that "The CS5536 companion chip has some hardware 2D acceleration built-in and this helps speed up Windows beyond what would be expected of a 500Mhz PII class processor. It also helps video processing which runs right up to 2mbps for advanced video codes such as Divx, Xvid and WMV9 before frame drop becomes apparent"
I would assume that this would also be true for the K as well?
Here is the article on the Vega
http://www.carrypad.com/content/view/35/9/1/1/ (http://www.carrypad.com/content/view/35/9/1/1/)
THanks for your help in making this tough decision.
-
This guy has a fully loaded K = 80gig HD and 1 GiG of ram.
http://www.handtops.com/blog/104/0/Kohjins...y_new_baby.html (http://www.handtops.com/blog/104/0/Kohjinsha__my_new_baby.html)
he provides some benchmarks and copmarisons to other machines.....the performance is a bit dispapointing.....
Just as a summary, this baby is about 1/10th speed of an Intel Core Duo 1.66GHz machine (32-bit).
Khoji results at the end. Timing results are "how many per 5s interval +/- measuring errors, so allow 10/20% variance".
PERF3: 27 October 2002 14:21 v8.0.9a, AMD 750Mhz, Linux 2.4.19
1) loop Time: 5.01 545,000/sec
Mac OS X 10.1.5 PPC G3/500MHz gcc 2.95.2
PERF3: 5 December 2002 09:45 v8.0.9c
1) loop Time: 4.91 230,000/sec
Intel P4 2.53GHz Linux 2.4.20
PERF3: 29 July 2003 23:14 v8.1.2b
1) loop Time: 5.01 1,475,000/sec
Intel P3 1.2GHz, WinXP, CL .NET 7.00
PERF3: 19 April 2004 21:08 v9.0.3a
1) loop Time: 4.99 805,000/sec
Intel P3 1.2GHz, WinXP, CL 2003 7.10
PERF3: 19 April 2004 21:06 v9.0.3a
1) loop Time: 5.00 940,000/sec
Sun Ultra-10 440MHz solaris-10-sparc64
PERF3: 25 March 2006 09:37 v9.1.5a
1) loop Time: 4.99 170,000/sec
Sun Ultra-10 440MHz solaris-10-sparc64
PERF3: 25 March 2006 09:39 v9.1.5a
1) loop Time: 5.12 155,000/sec
Linux 2.6.16.5 Intel Core Duo 1.66GHz 32 bit gcc-4.0.3
PERF3: 10 December 2006 14:05 v9.2.1c
1) loop Time: 4.97 1,030,000/sec
Khojinsa Windows XP - AMD Geode 500Mhz Visual Studio 2005 Express
PERF3: 10 December 2006 14:11 v9.2.1c
1) loop Time: 5.05 175,000/sec
He does clearly specify in the blog that
"I rarely notice the cpu speed issue, and the extra RAM avoids a few disk accesses."
This confuses me a little..... the P3 1.2 machine is approx 4.6X faster then the Khojinsa, but he rarely notices the cpu speed issue?
I have to get my hands on this to test it out myself.............
What is the community's thoughts?
-
Intel P4 2.53GHz Linux 2.4.20
PERF3: 29 July 2003 23:14 v8.1.2b
1) loop Time: 5.01 1,475,000/sec
Intel P3 1.2GHz, WinXP, CL .NET 7.00
PERF3: 19 April 2004 21:08 v9.0.3a
1) loop Time: 4.99 805,000/sec
Intel P3 1.2GHz, WinXP, CL 2003 7.10
PERF3: 19 April 2004 21:06 v9.0.3a
1) loop Time: 5.00 940,000/sec
________________________________
Is this saying that a P4 was slower than a P3 with half the clock speed? Looks like some Linux FUD or am I reading this wrong?
-
okay if you want to run ubuntu or its direvative kubuntu try xubuntu it is a lite weight gui and you can use it with kubuntu and ubuntu desktop software if you install those gui's but not to use them
-
I think that it would be much more useful to talk about performance per watt than try and compare it to some power hungry processors. For me a Z for mobile use and a K for everything else especially hooked to a 19 lcd for drawing will do perfectly for me. Of course this is all just my humble opinion.
-
Synthetic benchmarks are just that ... synthetic. Most test components and not the whole system, so they may or may not reflect real-world performance. My experience has been that though the K is no speed demon, it's plenty fast enough for most application software.
Case in point, a couple weeks ago I needed to do final editing and format clean-up on a 100+ page MS Word document containing 11 sub documents, some of which contained a dozen or more graphics. Word on the Mac was doing things that broke the formatting when the doc went back to Windows, so I hooked my display and keyboard up to the K and spent the next day and a half using it to do all my final edits. Repagination was a little slow and paging through the graphics heavy sections sometimes required waiting a second or two for graphics to load, but in general it was perfectly usable.
Another example, as part of my holiday R&R I've been playing Battle for Wesnoth on the K over the course of the last few days. Map scrolling isn't quite as smooth as it is on my dual-G5 PowerMac, but I certainly don't see the 10x to 20x slowdown that CPU benchmarks alone would suggest. The game is perfectly playable, and the fact that I can plop down in the La-Z-Boy and play for hours without scorching my lap or having to drag out an AC adapter is mighty appealing
-
Thanks for your input Dave, that is the kind of real world experience that I was looking for.
Reading up on most other mini laptops (liberetto and fujitsu) models of the same size , the biggest user complaint is the heat generated and how it can become uncomfortable. This is where the K should shine.....
Thanks for a great blog site Dave, please keep us updated on your thoughts on the K after a month or two of use.
-
I'm with Dave and Kahm on this one.
General-purpose benchmarks are mostly useless on this kind of device -- unless you're going to use it ONLY to calculate more decimals of PI, or break encryption keys, or encode mpeg4... which would be a mistake :-)
The only meaningful information is about tasks you will actually carry out on the machine : browsing, word processing, viewing pictures and video, etc, both as measurements (launch times) and general qualitative feedback (usability), as Kopsis did on his blog.
I must thank Dave here because his blog helped overcome my last hesitations, and I have also been playing with my KJS for a few days now. I fully agree with his conclusions : this device is much more usable and capable than one would suspect from the spec sheet and comparisons with past ultramobiles.
My unit came directly from Japan so I had to install my localized Windows XP myself. The hardest part was booting up the Japanese OS first and finishing the first-boot installation and registration. If you think you know Windows by heart from A to Z after all that time, just try it once in Japanese (or any other language that has no As and no Zs :-)...
All the drivers for the specific hardware of the SA1 are under one directory, and internationalized or at least in English, so no problem here. To play it safe I installed the new XP in the second (D:) partition in case I needed something from the first, but I haven't used the first one since.
The only glitch I found is that of course you need to set the SA1 to boot from an external USB CD-ROM drive, in the BIOS setup. But once XP completes the initial installation and reboots, it cannot find the CD anymore and is unable to finish copying files. On a hunch I disabled the boot-from-CD option and rebooted, and it continued just fine... I don't know if this is due to the external CD-ROM I was using, to my Windows CD, or a bug in the KJS BIOS.
Also, instead of the vanilla install disk, I used a customized version with all service packs and critical updates included, and many tweaks to reduce memory and resource consumption. The result is very pleasing : as Dave said, XP runs surprisingly well on this setup, boots fast and feels positively snappy.
The screen is really great, bright and crisp. Along with the SD card reader it makes a fantastic photo viewer (my wife was sold on the first slideshow :-). Although it has the same 800*480 definition as the Nokia 770 Internet tablet, being almost twice as large it can use smaller fonts and fit more information for a given eyesight.
Ever since Windows95 I have kept my taskbar vertical, at the right side of the screen, instead of the default horizontal at bottom. It really pays here !
Web surfing is nice on the 770, it is great on the SA1, mainly because I can use a real Firefox with all the extensions I'm addicted to. Fast, too.
I haven't gotten around to installing OpenOffice yet, but with the VGA-out I'm sure the next presentation at work will be a hit :-)
Autonomy is great, even with Wifi on. I'm just wondering if we'll still be able to procure replacement batteries in a couple of years when we need them :-)
Haven't used tablet mode much yet, but probably good for watching movies...
As Dave noted, the keyboard is the one real weak point. However, as I've always been a lousy typist and will likely remain one, I'm probably less affected by this than you touch-typing divas out there :-)
Lastly, I'll second Kahm's warning about comparisons with older machines, which I've verified first-hand. I also have an old (4+-years) Samsung NV5000 (identical to the Q10). It was an 1.2kg, 12" ultraportable icon in its heyday. This one has a 900Mhz PIII (slower on batteries due to Intel SpeedStep), a 6GB disk and was upgraded to 392 MB RAM.
And sure enough, the KJS feels MUCH faster and snappier to use ! Not to mention the USB2 ports and card readers...
PS for Dave : on your blog you mention that some Firefox/TB dialogs don't fit in the screen, vertically, and you need to move them around with the keyboard shortcuts to get at the lower buttons. Have you tried Fn-F1 ? On my unit it switches to a 800x600 view. The picture is somewhat blurred because it is vertically compressed to 480px, but it's enough to let you click on OK or Cancel :-)
-
PS for Dave : on your blog you mention that some Firefox/TB dialogs don't fit in the screen, vertically, and you need to move them around with the keyboard shortcuts to get at the lower buttons. Have you tried Fn-F1 ? On my unit it switches to a 800x600 view. The picture is somewhat blurred because it is vertically compressed to 480px, but it's enough to let you click on OK or Cancel :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually it's Fn-ESC But yes, that's a good tip that I discovered that after I wrote my article. You're right that the 800x600 is a bit fuzzy for text, but the screen scaling modes are actually quite usable in Battle for Wesnoth (and probably other games that don't need Direct3D). It works as a sort of poor-man's anti-aliasing
-
PS for Dave : on your blog you mention that some Firefox/TB dialogs don't fit in the screen, vertically, and you need to move them around with the keyboard shortcuts to get at the lower buttons. Have you tried Fn-F1 ? On my unit it switches to a 800x600 view. The picture is somewhat blurred because it is vertically compressed to 480px, but it's enough to let you click on OK or Cancel :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually it's Fn-ESC But yes, that's a good tip that I discovered that after I wrote my article. You're right that the 800x600 is a bit fuzzy for text, but the screen scaling modes are actually quite usable in Battle for Wesnoth (and probably other games that don't need Direct3D). It works as a sort of poor-man's anti-aliasing
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150083\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Neat! For web browsing, I think Opera also supports dynamic scaling. fyi, I use FF personally and no, I don't have a SA.
btw, OT, for Battle for Wesnoth ... in the hardest level setting, one of the stage is quite impassable ... anyone completed the 2nd campaign?
For the uninstructed, BfW is a RTS game set in a backdrop much like Warcraft.
-
My non-stop stream of Kohjinsha propoganda continues ...
My review (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaMiniReview) now has photos (and a few edits since I originally posted the link).
I've also posted a page of Z vs. Kohjinsha pics (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaZaurusPhotos).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148885\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Would you mind posting the K's charger specs ? Thanks in advance.
cycle_55
-
Output is 19V DC, 2.63 A. Input is international (110/230V, 50/60Hz).
The "brick" is quite small, with a standard plug for the AC cord which can thus be replaced with a local one. Anything else you need to know ?
-
Output is 19V DC, 2.63 A. Input is international (110/230V, 50/60Hz).
The "brick" is quite small, with a standard plug for the AC cord which can thus be replaced with a local one. Anything else you need to know ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thanks, this will do. I couldn't find it in any of the advertising. Thanks again.
cycle_55
-
Actually it's Fn-ESC But yes, that's a good tip that I discovered that after I wrote my article.
Yup, sorry. Shoulda lifted my fat ass to check instead of posting from notoriously fail-prone memory :-)
-
Actually it's Fn-ESC But yes, that's a good tip that I discovered that after I wrote my article.
Yup, sorry. Shoulda lifted my fat ass to check instead of posting from notoriously fail-prone memory :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150161\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I looked again, and actually Fn-Esc switches to a widescreen-type resolution of 1024x600 - that's why it's so blurry, it's scaled both ways.
If the problem is only with screen height, it's possible to manually (via screen properties) switch to a regular 800x600, which is a bit sharper.
-
Dave, if you're still around and can spare a few minutes, I could use some help here...
As you know I've been reinstalling XP of my SA1 by myself, and everything went well except for one problem with the keyboard driver...
I'm interested in the following information concerning your unit as reinstalled by Conics :
1) Are the three keys with japanese labels on either side of the spacebar functional ?
2) On the top row, are the five keys between F8 and Ins all functional ?
3) In your Control Panel, System, Hardware, Device list, what is the name of the installed keyboard, and its driver files ?...
In my original japanese installation, 1) is no, 2) is yes, and 3) is gibberish :-)
In my self-installed XP, even if I manually force a japanese keyboard driver, two of the top keys are dead, so I have missing symbols...
TIA,
fp
-
1) Are the three keys with japanese labels on either side of the spacebar functional ?
No.
2) On the top row, are the five keys between F8 and Ins all functional ?
The "|" isn't showing anything in Wordpad, but the others work.
3) In your Control Panel, System, Hardware, Device list, what is the name of the installed keyboard, and its driver files ?...
Standard 101/102-Key (i8042prt.sys, kbdclass.sys).
The problem isn't your keyboard driver, it's the langauage mapping. Under Control Panel, Regional and Language Options, Languages, Details... you can select a "Default input language". Mine came set up with "English (United States) - Sarutek Keyboard" ... an option you probably don't have.
I've since built my own input method that is exactly like the Sarutek except it swaps the "+" and ":" symbols. If you PM me your preferred email address, I can send you an installer for my custom input method.
-
Keep an eye on this:
1) ~$1500USD: oqo has released a new oqo2. Another category of computer, but worth o keep on eye on it: http://www.oqo.com (http://www.oqo.com)
2) ??: flipstart, the 2/3 year vapourware minicomputer from Paul Allen company has just redesigned their website: http://www.flipstartpc.com/ (http://www.flipstartpc.com/)
Interesting times we are living in. It seems that everyone has been waiting 2007 to launch their products, not to mention apple !
-
actually i am in the market for a new highly capable mobile PC that must be IO heavy and the OQO apealed (Blew up my Z, wrong polarity on the charger problem)
at the moment its a toss up between the new oqo and this beast. ethire way its likly to get one of those solid state drives in it at some point. might wait and see
-
I've since built my own input method that is exactly like the Sarutek except it swaps the "+" and ":" symbols. If you PM me your preferred email address, I can send you an installer for my custom input method.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thanks, Dave. I just did that.
fp
-
Keep an eye on this:
1) ~$1500USD: oqo has released a new oqo2. Another category of computer, but worth o keep on eye on it: http://www.oqo.com (http://www.oqo.com)
2) ??: flipstart, the 2/3 year vapourware minicomputer from Paul Allen company has just redesigned their website: http://www.flipstartpc.com/ (http://www.flipstartpc.com/)
Interesting times we are living in. It seems that everyone has been waiting 2007 to launch their products, not to mention apple !
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150646\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I saw over in the Pocketpenguin forum that Vulcan's Flipstart website had been updated, and I signed up for the "first to know" thing right away. I would buy a flipstart the very instant it becomes available, as I view it as the perfect Z killer:
Flipstart:
5.8"x4"x1"
454g
256mb ram (although I hope they bump this to at least 512 in their release)
30gb HD
1024x600 screen
wi-fi
USB2.0
Camera
VGA out
vs the Z
4.9"x3.4"x1"
298g
64mb ram
4gb HD (very slow)
640x480 touchscreen.
USB1.1
vs Kohjinsha
8.1"x6.5"x1.5"
980g
512mb-1gb ram
40-80gb HD
Wi-fi/BT
USB2.0
VGA out
The flipstart is half again heavier, only 0.9" wider and 0.6" deeper, same thickness. You gain x86 compatibility, built in wireless, a useful screen resolution, more memory (very, very important) and a much larger and faster HD.
The size might put it over the top for some, but I keep my Z in my coat pocket. The reduced battery life (3-4hrs) is still pretty good, and wouldn't affect my usage. The loss of the touchscreen will be harder to take, though.
It's like they compressed a Kohjinsha down into the size of a Z and left a higher res screen.
I just bought a Macbook, which probably means my use of the Libretto will go down. If Vulcan comes out with this little wonder I'd probably sell off all but 1 Z and the Libretto, then carry the Flipstart. (And either an FIC open moko phone or an iPhone )
-
Seeing how tiny 1024x600 looks on the Kohjinsha's screen, I wouldn't dream of using that on one the size of the Flipstart's. And yes, it has more memory, but then it's going to run Windows, no ? :-)
-
Good points, kahm...
As an OT aside, which MacBook did you get??
I've been seriously considering getting the 2GHz white one, so that I can run OSX and XP using Parallels....
Only other thing tempting me right now (except for the $$$ involved...) is the new ModBook shown at MacWorld...would love to have a Mac tablet....
Thanks,
Mark
I saw over in the Pocketpenguin forum that Vulcan's Flipstart website had been updated, and I signed up for the "first to know" thing right away. I would buy a flipstart the very instant it becomes available, as I view it as the perfect Z killer:
Flipstart:
5.8"x4"x1"
454g
256mb ram (although I hope they bump this to at least 512 in their release)
30gb HD
1024x600 screen
wi-fi
USB2.0
Camera
VGA out
vs the Z
4.9"x3.4"x1"
298g
64mb ram
4gb HD (very slow)
640x480 touchscreen.
USB1.1
vs Kohjinsha
8.1"x6.5"x1.5"
980g
512mb-1gb ram
40-80gb HD
Wi-fi/BT
USB2.0
VGA out
The flipstart is half again heavier, only 0.9" wider and 0.6" deeper, same thickness. You gain x86 compatibility, built in wireless, a useful screen resolution, more memory (very, very important) and a much larger and faster HD.
The size might put it over the top for some, but I keep my Z in my coat pocket. The reduced battery life (3-4hrs) is still pretty good, and wouldn't affect my usage. The loss of the touchscreen will be harder to take, though.
It's like they compressed a Kohjinsha down into the size of a Z and left a higher res screen.
I just bought a Macbook, which probably means my use of the Libretto will go down. If Vulcan comes out with this little wonder I'd probably sell off all but 1 Z and the Libretto, then carry the Flipstart. (And either an FIC open moko phone or an iPhone )
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150854\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
-
Seeing how tiny 1024x600 looks on the Kohjinsha's screen, I wouldn't dream of using that on one the size of the Flipstart's. And yes, it has more memory, but then it's going to run Windows, no ? :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150859\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The K's screen is 800x480, and is actually quite large (7")
The screen on the FLipstart is 1024x600, at 5.8", which will run it about ~200dpi, which is almost exactly the same as the Z. (The panasonic wordsgear reader has a 1024x600 5.6" dispay, and it's officially 210dpi)
So it is no worse than the Z, with substantially better resolution.
-
Good points, kahm...
And with the cancellation of the Zaurus, something like the flipstart can't come out fast enough.
And I'd probably wipe windows and run Linux with a lightweight windows manager on the Vulcan anyway.
As an OT aside, which MacBook did you get??
I've been seriously considering getting the 2GHz white one, so that I can run OSX and XP using Parallels....
2ghz White, with 2gb of ram. Running XP and Vista via parallels, and it's as smooth as a baby's bottom
I very nearly packed it up and sent it back 30sec after opening it. It's quite heavy for it's size, and looks bigger at home than it does in the store. I thought it would be a little chunky compared to my Libretto, but its first impression was more like the fat lady at the circus
Thankfully, I'm mostly over it now and am otherwise impressed with the unit.
-
I'd been waiting for flipstart and oqo to announce something for years. By now i'm under the impression that neither will actually arrive. Besides, wasn;'t the flipstart supposed to sell for about $1500 us? too high fior a z killer if I remebered the price right.
-
I'd been waiting for flipstart and oqo to announce something for years. By now i'm under the impression that neither will actually arrive. Besides, wasn;'t the flipstart supposed to sell for about $1500 us? too high fior a z killer if I remebered the price right.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151146\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, the update on the flipstart's webpage is very new. When we last heard of them almost 2 years ago they knew they were a victim of premature announcements, so they stated that they wouldn't say anything else about the Flipstart until they were good and ready to realease a product.
That sentiment is what leads me to be hopeful that they're actually going to release a product, and probably (relatively) soon - I would say this year some time.
As for the price - I could actually care less at this point. I'm now looking for a tool that does what I want, in a form factor that I like. The Z came very close, but now that I'm actually putting it to use I'm finding a bunch limitations in speed, memory, etc.
It is an unfortunate fact that there is simply nothing else on the market like the Z. The HTC Universal is the next best thing, but it is painfully obvious that it's a phone first, and that I wouldn't be much better of with it instead.
So, what I want is a Zaurus, but with more memory and built in networking. It's got to be a pocketable clamshell, have a good keyboard, and a good screen. A faster hard drive and better software compatibility would be nice, too.
If it costs 1500$, then so be it. If I had it then I wouldn't need either my Z or my Libretto. Plus, x86 compatibility means I could run anything I wanted on it, rather than a slow, but stable distribution, or a half built alpha with semi-modern software.
I've said it before - if the Vulcan Flipstart actaully goes on sale, I will be standing at the front of the line with my credit card out.
-
I mostly agree about the comparison, and the Z's shortcomings. and the possible advantages of the flipstart. The z's limits for my use are more that something which fits in a pocket will always leave a lot to be desired for wordprocessing due to the size of the keyboard and to an extent, the screen. I try to use ssh to get more powerful computers to handle anything significant where possible, so the processing speed doesn't bug me much--though memory does sometimes. My mentioning the price wasn't by way of complaint, is was more by way of saying that the flipstart at 1500 would be really pushing the price/perfomance ratio for me. The Z package is:
portability
versatility
efficiency
affordability
.
think about it this way: 1500 might be a neo, a 12-14" modest (but much more powerful than a flipstart, Koshinja, umpc) laptop and enough change to buy a new mobo/cpu with serious power (or a zaurus, for that matter). Or a neo, a Kosh. and enough change to pay for about a year of unlimted gprs.
which is the better solution for most of us?
btw I seem pretty hung up on the neo these days, don't I?
-
anyone seen the htc fireball/bird/whatever
it had video out and a nvidia goforce chipset as well as some chunky flash and ram with a 640x480 screen and USB host support, no keyboard but in some ways its a step up
-
As an OT aside, which MacBook did you get??
2ghz White
..
I very nearly packed it up and sent it back 30sec after opening it. It's quite heavy for it's size, and looks bigger at home than it does in the store. I thought it would be a little chunky compared to my Libretto, but its first impression was more like the fat lady at the circus
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151145\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
You really ought to take a look at the Sony TX2... can't run mac-osx. I took it on holiday with me to the USA, I only occasionally take a laptop with me due to the burden of carrying it, first time I've taken one and not felt it to be a burden. The only snag is it doesn't feel too strong so you do end up bulking it up with padding. However, it's still too big to take everywhere, so the Z was still very useful.
-
The K's screen is 800x480, and is actually quite large (7")
I know that kahm, as I'm typing on it :-)
But it does have a scaled 1024x600 mode. Of course it's blurry from interpolation, but it gives an idea of using such a definition on a 7" screen.
That's why I personally wouldn't think of using it on a even smaller one, but your own eyesight may differ :-)
-
Thanks for the feedback, kahm....
Well, I took the plunge on Friday and got one....so far it's great!
Had a G4 iBook previously, so size not too different...
Installed Parallels and Vista beta that I had last night, works great....installing the new Parallels beta now...
All in all, happy camper right now, just wish it had touchscreen...
2ghz White, with 2gb of ram. Running XP and Vista via parallels, and it's as smooth as a baby's bottom
I very nearly packed it up and sent it back 30sec after opening it. It's quite heavy for it's size, and looks bigger at home than it does in the store. I thought it would be a little chunky compared to my Libretto, but its first impression was more like the fat lady at the circus
Thankfully, I'm mostly over it now and am otherwise impressed with the unit.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151145\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
-
I mostly agree about the comparison, and the Z's shortcomings. and the possible advantages of the flipstart. The z's limits for my use are more that something which fits in a pocket will always leave a lot to be desired for wordprocessing due to the size of the keyboard and to an extent, the screen. I try to use ssh to get more powerful computers to handle anything significant where possible, so the processing speed doesn't bug me much--though memory does sometimes. My mentioning the price wasn't by way of complaint, is was more by way of saying that the flipstart at 1500 would be really pushing the price/perfomance ratio for me. The Z package is:
portability
versatility
efficiency
affordability
.
think about it this way: 1500 might be a neo, a 12-14" modest (but much more powerful than a flipstart, Koshinja, umpc) laptop and enough change to buy a new mobo/cpu with serious power (or a zaurus, for that matter). Or a neo, a Kosh. and enough change to pay for about a year of unlimted gprs.
which is the better solution for most of us?
When I bought my laptop last year, I bought one that cost twice as much for half the features. I almost didn't, but it was probably a very good choice for me. I currently carry 2 Zs (one on Cacko, one on pdaXii13) and my libretto every day. If I had the Vulcan, I could eliminate all three of them.
For the most part, the Z is pretty good for portablility. You still have to factor in carrying around a case filled with memory cards, wireless cards, and power adapters.
Versatility and efficiency depend on each other, and the requirements of the user at the time. If you use it like a PDA with the convenience of a keyboard, it performs pretty well. It even makes a pretty good surfing platform if you can stand the wireless card jutting out the side (Which I can't). OTOH, if you try and use it more like a computer, which is possible, you soon run into performance issues like waiting over five minutes for a search and replace to finish. Efficiency goes down as versatility increases due to limitations of the platform. Serious work can be done, so long as you're willing to wait on it.
Affordability is somewhat questionable, as the Z is rather expensive for what you get. Less so now than when they came out, though - they're now closer to $500 than $750. Also consider that it's not really easy or particularily cheap to get CF Wi-fi cards or USB host cables. We don't have a working CF 802.11g card for the Z yet, and the 802.11b cards are harder to find.
Now, don't get me wrong - I still love the Z. I own everything from an early production 5000D to a 3100, but we're running into walls on both the hardware and software, and I'm getting just old enough not to have time to play with it anymore.
I've looked for years, and spent a lot of money, on trying to find the best in portable computing. I think the Z is the ultimate formfactor, but limitations in memory and connectivity sour the experience.
btw I seem pretty hung up on the neo these days, don't I?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151152\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, I was thinking about the Neo, then the iPhone. Since the iPhone is going to be too locked down and the Neo is actually going to have BT, I'll probably get a Neo. It does look like a very nice piece of kit
-
The K's screen is 800x480, and is actually quite large (7")
I know that kahm, as I'm typing on it :-)
But it does have a scaled 1024x600 mode. Of course it's blurry from interpolation, but it gives an idea of using such a definition on a 7" screen.
That's why I personally wouldn't think of using it on a even smaller one, but your own eyesight may differ :-)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151165\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Can you use see the screen on a Zaurus? It will be almost the same density. The screen on my Libretto is 1280x720, and it's only 7.5". That's too small sitting on a desk at normal typing distance, but quite nice holding it in the hand like you would the Vulcan.
When I set the K up for my friend, I didn't know about fn-esc changing the screen res, so I was doing it through the display control panel. When you set it to a higher screen res, WinXP removes the 800x480 option from the slider, and you have to dig a bit to find how to set it back. I'm trying to bug my friend into finding it for himself, but he seems not to care whether it's set to 800x480 or 1024x600
-
You really ought to take a look at the Sony TX2... can't run mac-osx. I took it on holiday with me to the USA, I only occasionally take a laptop with me due to the burden of carrying it, first time I've taken one and not felt it to be a burden. The only snag is it doesn't feel too strong so you do end up bulking it up with padding. However, it's still too big to take everywhere, so the Z was still very useful.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151160\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I own a Libretto U100, which is a very powerful and portable tiny laptop. I wanted an OSX machine just because of OSX and didn't want to get a mini The macbook will probably mostly live on my desk and I'll only take it out if I need something more powerful on the road...
It only seemed so huge and heavy because it lacks in comparison to the libby That, and looking at it in the local stores, it seems smaller. (I was out at Futureshop with a friend yesterday, and he swears that the model in the store is smaller than mine at home . Plus, we can't pick them up in the store, so the weight was a bit of a surprise. They are quite dense...)
-
kopsis,
I am seriously thinking of buying a SAF1F00A, and since you have the actual hands-on with it, I have a few questions regarding the touchpad:
First, does sidescrolling work as expected?
Second, is it a synaptics touchpad (you can tell in the mouse setup).
Third, I read in another review that the buttons on the touchpad are loose and floppy feeling, and I just want to get your opinion on that.
By the way, your review is very enlightening, thanks for that.
Thanks,
Doug
-
First, does sidescrolling work as expected?
Well, I'm a keyboard person and don't pay much attention to pointing devices, so I'm not exactly sure what "expected" would be
Second, is it a synaptics touchpad (you can tell in the mouse setup).
Yes ... or at least it's using synaptics drivers.
Third, I read in another review that the buttons on the touchpad are loose and floppy feeling, and I just want to get your opinion on that.
They definitely are, and it was a little disturbing at first. But its not due to build quality, it's just how they're designed. I've quickly gotten used to it. I'm actually bothered more by the plastic chrome finish that causes them to always proudly display my fingerprints
-
Well, that gives me something more to think about.
Crappy keyboard, floppy mouse buttons, 800x480 resolution.
For the price they want, I might be better off spending $150 on a new high-capacity battery for the four-year-old laptop I already own.
Plus I also have the C1000.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Thanks for the input kopsis,
Doug
-
Well, that gives me something more to think about.
Crappy keyboard, floppy mouse buttons, 800x480 resolution.
For the price they want, I might be better off spending $150 on a new high-capacity battery for the four-year-old laptop I already own.
Plus I also have the C1000.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Thanks for the input kopsis,
Doug
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156700\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I wasn't going to say anything but I have to comment on a couple of things. I don't find the keyboard crappy, it is small and requires that your fingers stay close together when you type. I am as quick on this keyboard as on a full size one now. My mouse buttons are not floppy at all and the pad works as good or better than on previous laptops I have used. I am very happy with this machine, it has replaced my laptop but of course not my Z.
I have only one little beef and that is that the sd slot is not a full slot, in other words the sd card does not go all the way into the slot. Good luck with your decision.
cycle_55
-
cycle_55,
Thanks for the info.
I guess another question I have about the keyboard and mouse keys is are they quiet when you press them, like the average keyboard/mouse, or do they a make a clicking sound?
I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I have a need to know this stuff.
After all this, I guess the deciding factor for me might be the squashed-up screen (or maybe chopped-off would be more accurate).
Being among the senior citizen crowd, my eyes are getting a little on the old side and I'm thinking web pages and such might be a little hard to read.
Thanks again,
Doug
EDIT:
I just broke down and ordered one, so we'll see how it is when it gets here.
I'll report back with my conclusions.
Thank you all for your very helpful information.
I have a set of cd's for Slackware 10, so maybe I'll install that on the second partition.
-
Good move... Here's some reassurance while-U-wait :
- I believe the keyboard issue is mostly a matter of getting used to it and "breaking in" the keys by using it some. At first I had the same experience as related by others here, but I find it less the case as time goes by.
- I have no problems with the touchpad and mouse buttons - certainly less so than with a lot of regular laptops I've used in the past. The keyboard is reasonably discreet, typically laptop-like.
- my eyes aren't brand new either but I find the screen quite usable. I also have a Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, with the same resolution but with a 4" screen, and *that* is sometimes hard to squint at. The larger screen on the KJS makes a lot of difference. With the hardware scroll buttons at the side, the reduced vertical size is less of an issue.
All in all, if used for what it's designed to do, the KJS is a very nice sublaptop at a very good price compared to others for its size, weight, autonomy and connectivity.
-
Good move... Here's some reassurance while-U-wait :
...[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156893\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thanks for the encouragement, I can hardly wait.
-
cycle_55,
Thanks for the info.
I guess another question I have about the keyboard and mouse keys is are they quiet when you press them, like the average keyboard/mouse, or do they a make a clicking sound?
I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I have a need to know this stuff.
After all this, I guess the deciding factor for me might be the squashed-up screen (or maybe chopped-off would be more accurate).
Being among the senior citizen crowd, my eyes are getting a little on the old side and I'm thinking web pages and such might be a little hard to read.
Thanks again,
Doug
EDIT:
I just broke down and ordered one, so we'll see how it is when it gets here.
I'll report back with my conclusions.
Thank you all for your very helpful information.
I have a set of cd's for Slackware 10, so maybe I'll install that on the second partition.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yes, please, provide more info. Today, once again, before March paycheck, I have found myself wandering over conics.net and dynamism .... Where are you getting your from? Did you get a discount over web price?
Thanks
-
Yes, please, provide more info. Today, once again, before March paycheck, I have found myself wandering over conics.net and dynamism .... Where are you getting your from?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I bought it from Conics.
Did you get a discount over web price?
The price is listed on their site (no discounts).
-
Has anybody tried running Linux on one of these yet?
-
See the posts by Kopsis earlier in the thread and go read his blog posts on the KJS. He tried, and it boots Linux just as it should, and then there are the (unfortunately usual) issues with this kind of customized hardware : running X in 800*480 on that video chipset, keyboard layout, Wifi and BT support and so on...
Most of those are probably solvable, but as he says, he bought the critter to use it, not to tinker with it, so he didn't want to spend the time and effort. If someone does, thought, it could make a nice little Linux sublaptop...
-
Here's something that would be an awesome feature for this little Kohjinsha...
If someone could come up with a program that would allow you to run a zaurus rom/distro in a directory the same way Dosbox allows you to run Dos and its applications.
It could be called ZaurusBox.
I have no idea if something like this is possible or not, but it's food for thought.
-
qemu with full arm system emulation?
just added recently, sure it isnt the Z but the platform they did simulate is quite capable and would run most Z software, you might need to tweak the distro a bit but that should be it
-
Or, you can run Linux like any other program in Windows (http://www.lifehack.org/articles/technology/beginners-guide-run-linux-like-any-other-program-in-windows.html)
-
Here's something that would be an awesome feature for this little Kohjinsha...
If someone could come up with a program that would allow you to run a zaurus rom/distro in a directory the same way Dosbox allows you to run Dos and its applications.
It could be called ZaurusBox.
I have no idea if something like this is possible or not, but it's food for thought.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=156956\")
[a href=\"http://www.virtera.com/]http://www.virtera.com/[/url]
download it quick before it disappears
-
Here's something that would be an awesome feature for this little Kohjinsha...
If someone could come up with a program that would allow you to run a zaurus rom/distro in a directory the same way Dosbox allows you to run Dos and its applications.
It could be called ZaurusBox.
I have no idea if something like this is possible or not, but it's food for thought.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=156956\")
[a href=\"http://www.virtera.com/]http://www.virtera.com/[/url]
download it quick before it disappears
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156994\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I downloaded this last year.
I don't think it would run on the Kohjinsha SA1F00A/SA1F00B, unless this small laptop can run Linux natively.
Quote from "install.pdf"
• Microsoft Windows is not supported.
3.Host Requirements and Pre-requisite Software
The requirements for the host computer are:
• IBM PC compatible, Intel or AMD x86 processor with clock speed 1.0 GHz or higher:
• Intel Pentium 4 or Xeon.
• AMD Athlon or Opteron.
• 512MB of RAM and 10MB of available hard disk space (in directory /opt).
• Linux O/S: 2.4.x or 2.6.x kernel.
• Tested Linux distributions:
• Red Hat 9.0
• Fedora Core 1, 3, and 5
• Fedora Core 2 (use RPM for Fedora Core 1)
• Fedora Core 4 (use RPM for Fedora Core 3)
• SuSE 9.2
• SuSE 10.1
• Mandrake 9.2
• Debian 3.1 (sarge)
• Other recent Linux distributions may also work but are not tested.
• Microsoft Windows is not supported.
• VM-arm runs as a 32-bit program. If run on a 64-bit x86 O/S (e.g. On Opteron, AMDLast year when I signed up and downloaded this, there was a description on the website that said "There may be support for Microsoft Windows at a later date"
Those are not the exact words, but that is what I remember.
-
qemu with full arm system emulation?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156960\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Theoretically possible, but performance on the Kohji would be really poor. You'd be looking a speeds on par with underclocking a Z to 50MHz or less. A better move would be to build OE for x86 and run that in QEMU with KQEMU acceleration. I've actually run a Debian server VM that way on the Kohji and it worked pretty well. Note that VMWare, Parallels, and (probably) VirtualPC don't support the Kohji's Geode processor, so QEMU is about your only high performance virtualization option.
As for Kohji screen concerns ... the screen is awesome! It's one of the machine's best features. The native 800x480 resolution is sharp and clear and surprisingly usable for most tasks. I find that I can use it for long periods with no eye strain and I seldom ever have to switch to one of the higher "scaled" resolutions.
-
Same here. I only ever use the Fn-Esc thing for those huge dialogs where some widgets or buttons are off-screen...
-
I just broke down and ordered one, so we'll see how it is when it gets here.
I'll report back with my conclusions.[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
My Kohji was shipped out a few hours ago.
-
I received my Kohji yesterday.
I'm still messing around with it.
Will post more details later.
-
I didn't see this posted in this thread:
http://www.pocketables.net/2007/03/new_touchscreen.html (http://www.pocketables.net/2007/03/new_touchscreen.html)
The link to the source of the statement doesn't hit a page at http://blog.icube.us (http://blog.icube.us), and I couldn't find it by searching there.
I'd be interested in touchscreen functionality for quick data entry using selection list and custom widgets, which I had working on the Z using pyQt.
-
The touchscreen upgrade reminds me of the tempting Sigmarion III! If the price is not gonna be hellishly expensive ...
-
I've seen that rumor a few days ago too. ATM, it's still only a rumor.
To me it doesn't quite fit in with the "philosophy" of the original SA1. It was said that part of its reasonable price came from repurposing existing non-touch-screens made for GPS navigators...
Anyway, if true, it will probably raise the price quite a bit : new screen, new XP license, redesigned case to fit a pen...
In any case I wouldn't regret my purchase : the foldable screen and "tablet mode" is nice to show off, but as with my old Zaurus, I find I hardly ever actually use it. I bought the SA1 as a very light, compact and versatile sublaptop for a fraction of the price such units usually go for, and that's how I use it...
-
Nothing wrong with rounding out the model line, I guess. But the beauty of the SA1 for me is that Kohjinsha kept the price low and I didn't have to pay for a single feature that I don't use. In terms of feature set, the SA1 almost feels like I spec'd out the machine myself
Some folks might be able to put a touchscreen to good use, but I'm not one of them. But if the rumor is true, it will be very interesting to see what it does to the price.
On a slightly different note, I see Conics.net now has SA1 batteries available. Pricey (a little over $100 with shipping) but I couldn't resist. Ability to use your laptop through an entire coast-to-coast flight without carrying 5 lbs of batteries ... priceless
-
Ah, that's good news, I was wondering what would happen when the original wears out...
-
As others have said, I work in a windows (and a few macs) environment. When I must have windows, my laptops dual boot and my wife and daughter still use windows as their primary. With this in mind, if I am going to have a Windows machine, it needs to run the latest version. Any word on Vista on the K? With vLite, it might do OK. My Fujitsu P5000D runs Vista Beta in VMPlayer OK, so I assume the K might as well.
As to the comment that it would be easier to build with Gentoo from the ground up rather than cut down *buntu, either that person is really capable or has never tried Gentoo. I think Xubuntu with some trimming of unneeded pieces would be a better start for the less capable (like myself).
Also, I started looking at the Libretto U100. An earlier post mentioned the specs for the u100. The actual specs are Width 8.27 in. Depth 6.5 in. Height 1.17 in. Weight 2.16 lb. A favorable comparison to the K. As it is an X86 with an Intel GME 855 chipset and AC 97 sound, it will definitely run your favorite flavor of Linux. As to the price it is several hundred dollars more. I am trying to determine if it is worth the extra money. I keep hoping that Kahm will provide some feedback on the U100 vs the K.
-
One of the first things I did on my KJS (as for all other Windows boxes I setup) was to install Firefox and never touch IE.
Now I have just discovered this great Firefox plugin : FullerScreen.
It gives "F11" a whole new life, and is just perfect on such a screen !
-
One of the first things I did on my KJS (as for all other Windows boxes I setup) was to install Firefox and never touch IE.
Now I have just discovered this great Firefox plugin : FullerScreen.
It gives "F11" a whole new life, and is just perfect on such a screen !
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
On my desktop windows box, Firefox 2.0.0.3 already has full screen built-in.
I don't have any fullscreen plugin, extension, or theme.
I hit F-11, and it goes full screen, with no titlebar and toolbar, and the statusbar at the bottom is also missing. (True full screen)
-
On my desktop windows box, Firefox 2.0.0.3 already has full screen built-in.
I don't have any fullscreen plugin, extension, or theme.
I hit F-11, and it goes full screen, with no titlebar and toolbar, and the statusbar at the bottom is also missing. (True full screen)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158177\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
On my Linux box with Firefox 2.0 I have full screen as you mention already "built-in". I know I did not install any plugins. This is on my Suse box.
Thanks for documenting this feature - I didnt know this existed with a sigle button press.
-
F11 works on my dapper box w/ default firefox 1.5 too.
-
Yes, of course, Firefox has had a "fullscreen" mode called by F11 ever since day 1. But it has a few shortcomings, like :
- when it hides your statusbar, it hides it for good, you need to get out of fullscreen mode to see it,
- if you have several tabs open, it doesn't hide the tab bar, thus not "true" full screen.
The plugin is meant to improve on the existing feature, that's why it is called "fullERscreen", and reuses the F11 key.
What it does is, it hides everything including the tab bar, but if your mouse comes near the top or bottom of screen, the tab bar and status bar pop up (so you can change tabs or click on something on the status bar), then disappear again when the mouse moves away. There is also an option where the status bar pops up if something changes (e.g. Gmail notifier).
It may sound like a small change but it makes a lot of difference, especially on a 800*480 screen like the SA1 has.
-
fuller screen seems really useful!
http://glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.p...6-fuller-screen (http://glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?2007/02/20/3246-fuller-screen)
-
I do believe I was on topic recommending this useful extension to users of this specific machine. Sorry if it was well-known to you already, it wasn't to me, nor to several others from the look of it.
I don't see that you have contributed anything essential to the SA1 discussion, either, to make you the appointed "on-topic" guardian.
EDIT: Hmm, the post this was following up on, just disappeared ?...
:-)
-
I do believe I was on topic recommending this useful extension to users of this specific machine. Sorry if it was well-known to you already, it wasn't to me, nor to several others from the look of it.
I don't see that you have contributed anything essential to the SA1 discussion, either, to make you the appointed "on-topic" guardian.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158254\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I certainly didn't know it existed and thank-you for pointing this out. It is definitely helpful on my K although I don't use it all the time. Thanks.
cycle_55
-
so where does a soon to be owner hang out for the latest info on these things?
just wondering if there is a forum or a haciking gudie on it, google dosent turn up much and at the moment i am wonedring about wifi support under linux. cant seem to get the chipset (anyone able to do a lspci for me?)
[edit]
can anyone confirm if it has 333Mhz ram or 400Mhz ram, the data sheets say it supports 400 but the specs that i have seen all say it ships with 333 (looking to upgrade a bit )
-
so where does a soon to be owner hang out for the latest info on these things?
they're just small PCs, so no expertise required :-)
just stick in a gentoo disk and wait three months for everything to build!
-
so where does a soon to be owner hang out for the latest info on these things?
just wondering if there is a forum or a haciking gudie on it, google dosent turn up much and at the moment i am wonedring about wifi support under linux. cant seem to get the chipset (anyone able to do a lspci for me?)
[edit]
can anyone confirm if it has 333Mhz ram or 400Mhz ram, the data sheets say it supports 400 but the specs that i have seen all say it ships with 333 (looking to upgrade a bit )
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=158402\")
Here's a UMPC site that has news, information and comparisons. There is also a forum, but I'm not sure how helpful it is.
[a href=\"http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/]http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/[/url]
-
I don't know of any better forum than here :-)
The resident guru (ie the guy who got one first) is kopsis, look for his blog in his sig, he did some quick tests with Linux.
-
I have tried to get a response from the author, but no joy... if anyone else has any actual experience with the Toshiba Libretto U100 versus the K, I would be interested. My concerns with the K are:
1) Japanese keyboard, keyboard size, key action, etc.
2) Type I CF versus Type II or PCMCIA
3) No port replicator dock option
4) Looks like there will be issues with Linux compatibility
For more money, the U100 seems to address all of these from a proven company with strong support in the US for a US model notebook. I am interested in thoughts from those who have owned both or at least tried both. Thanks.
**UPDATE** Didn't want to add any more off-topic stuff to this thread, but thought I would note that I bought a U100. Thanks to Kahm for the feedback.
-
i have some big plans for this thing
just wondering if there is anyone out there who would benifit from my hacking on it
the only problem i can see is with wifi, after checking the amd site it seems that most of thier patches are in the mainline kernel and x.org (or so they say) which is a good thing, shame about the lack of 3d but i can live with that
at the moment because i cant get a ssd for the thing i was thinking that i might be able to cram 3x CF cards in there (8GB a peice) as i dont really need the 40G+ that i get with it, i am more concerned with battery life, im guessing 20MB/s/card
also i belive a custom rebuild of the battery pack is in order with higher capacity cells and see if usb client is routed out to one of the usb ports (could come in handy)
IO wise i think its good but i am thinking of putting in a IR blaster wired to the hedaphone jack for lirc support as i have used it before on my main PC and quite like it (esp. with mplayer and its new menu support meaning you dont have to leave mplayer to change files)
any one else have ideas for some more hacks?
-
actually i have been researching linux compatability
seems AMD is big on support for linux and have nearly all thier patches in the latest releases or svn (2.6.20 supports IDE, audio, Video out (Framebuffer, however marked "experimental") USB Host (no client), Hardware 128bit AES, RNG generator (these 2 are a must for me )
dont forget its the same chip as the peperpad, which means that most if not all the required patches are there
x.org wise it seems that in 7.2 or svn (of 7.2) there is support for video hardware on the chip with 2D acceleration (i assume hardware cursor, hardware rotation and hardware blt support, lower cpu overhead)
thats not to mention MMX and 3Dnow support (so thats how the do acceleration of WMV and DVD)
now moving onto the coprocessor (ie USB, IDE, Audio, LPC (think xbox modchip hack, more on this latter), it support acpi and apm, we are probelly more comfterble with APM and acpi dosent really bring much to the table (i dont think it can modulate its clock so acpi freq adjustment is most likly non exsistent)
good news is that it looks like software suspend will work quite well provided you partion properly (more on that latter) but i think suspend to ram would work welll for me (apm -s)
IDE wise it will do up to udma5 (100MB/s), im going to go out on a limb here and say that the CF card is on the ATA bus and therefore cant do CF/IO however from what i read it does support SDIO (its a software thing with a bit of hardware) which means 4bit SDIO. i dont belive this is supported by linux however. it remains to be seen. after all they might have a chip that does SD/MS/CF to USB in there
i assume wifi is on the pci bus and if so that simplifies things, else its usb and there is less support for usb than pci. im betting (and hoping) on a realtec chip. i am also assuming bluetooth is on the usb bus as it makes more sense form a driver perspective and would explain why there are only 2 usb ports on the outside
can anyone give me a lspci and lsusb output, otherwise mine should arive in the next two days and i will tell you then
it also looks like linux bios has support for both the cpu and the companion chip, meaning it should be able to boot the device. what this means is grub in flash or somthing like PXE in flash or FILO, which is basically LILO but dosent need a BIOS or etherboot
the LPC can be used to override flash (i belive) just like on the xbox, so if you want to shave some boot time without risk anyway thats way off in the futre
as for the onscreen buttons, i mwouldnt be able to tell you if they are supported, same with teh LAN (but its a good bet that lan will just work), backligt i am not sure (this is backlight control not "will it turn on" so you can turn it on and off at will (or dim)
well thats about it cant wait to get my unit
-
Anyone seen / heard of this :-
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htcadvantage.html (http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htcadvantage.html)
Dunno the price though.
Specs:-
- Mobile Power Pad with detachable thin full keyboard
- Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 5.0 Pocket PC
Phone Edition
- 133.5mm (L) x 98mm(W) x 16mm(T)
Thickness with keyboard: 20 mm
- 359g with battery pack
- Intel® PXA270 624 MHz with ATI Graphic Chip W2284
- ROM: 256MB
- RAM: 128MB SDRAM
- HDD: 8GB
- 5” transmissive colour TFT-LCD, 640x480 dot pixel
VGA resolution
- Backlight LEDs
- Touch screen
- HSDPA/UMTS
(2100 MHz for Europe, 850/1900 MHz for USA)
- GSM/GPRS/EDGE
(quad-band, 850/900/1800/1900MHz)
- Main Camera
- 3 mega-pixel CMOS imaging sensor with autofocus
- 2nd Camera
- VGA CMOS imaging sensor
- High power LED for camera flash
- Built-in microphone
- Dual speakers
- Loud speaker for Hands-Free operation
- Bluetooth® v2.0
- Wi-Fi® 802.11b/g
- Internal GPS antenna
- 20 parallel channel GPS receiver
- 3V USIM/SIM card slot
- HTC ExtUSB™ (11-pin mini-USB 2.0 and
audio jack in one)
- HTC proprietary 16-pin combined port
(USB 1.1 host/VGA and TV Out)
- HTC VueFLO™ motion sensor assisted
browsing experience.
- miniSD™ card slot
- Battery
- Removable and rechargeable Lithium-ion
battery, 2200mAh
- AC adaptor
- Voltage range/frequency: 100~240V, 50/60Hz
- MMS and Java™ applications
- Smart Dialling and Voice Speed Dial
- Comm Manager
- AMR/AAC/WAV/WMA/MP3 codec
- Adobe Reader LE for PDF
- ZIP software and more
- Available in Black
- Travel charger / HTC ExtUSB™ sync. cable / Stereo
wired headset with microphone / Stylus / Battery /
Carrying Case
-
Da Blitz,
is that Kohjinska you are getting your pocket peguin project now ;-) ?
Where are you getting it from ?
-
the Kohjinska is basically the same as the PP laptop that i had in mind, but at the moment i need somthing a bit more portable where speed isnt an issue (size and wieght are as well as the ability to lug files around)
one advantage is i might venture to that undifined relm known as "outside" during a festival called "the middle of the day", im expecting the worst and got the Kohjinska so i would not be unprepared
anyway got it off Ebay for 899 + 79 shipping (the SA1F00B model, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...0490&rd=1&rd=1) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220098610490&rd=1&rd=1))
anyway the PP project is more than the hardware, thats just the first stage
-
well that was quick, 4 days from ordering to having it in my hands (Japan to Sydney Australia)
great unit, bit heavyier than i thought it wwould be however it will be lighter when i am done withit and it was easy to get used to it, keyboard was "difflent" harder than i was used to but i expect the stiffnes to be an advantage latter on
everything was set up with skype and firefox on the desktop (but not in the taskbar, only IE) which i was impressed about and drivers properly setup and drives nicly partioned
basically the attention to detail is incredabile, only problem was with wifi but encrypted networks and windows have never played nice for me
i was right about the realtech ethernet chip, but thats a given
did notice that the 800x480 is not really high enough for most of the windows option boxes
Wifi is on USB, which makes sense from a turn off/on perspective as the AMD companion chip handels power to each port as well as data, meaning easier enabling and disabling of the hardware (and no hacks to enable and disable under linux such as GPIO twiddling), driver provider in windows is windbond, however i never even knew they made wirerless chipsets
Bluetooth is also on USB, which is very nice and handy, discovery was simple and easy (that bluetooth app they have is the best example i have seen to date)
for the CF, under windows it shows up as a PCMCIA card, so its not hanging off the IDE bus (which i should not have even mentioned, didnt think about IDE not bieng hotplugable)
-
Da Blitz :
What is that "PP laptop" projet you speak about ?
How do you go about "modding" such a battery ?
PS: about the large dialogs, you did see the Fn-Esc trick, right ?...
-
Also, what was the problem with Wifi ? I have a WPA-encrypted WLAN at home and the KJS work OK with it...
-
Da Blitz,
is CF IO? (can you plug a IO Cf Card in the CF compartment, let's say a GSM/GPRS or modem card?)
-
sorry i only have normal CF cards, i would be able to give you more info about if it is indeed CFIO capable however it turns out my USB DVD burner is dead (i belive i crushed it)
that FN+ESC trick is nice but i dont like the bluring
the WPA problem is several parts, it dosent detect encryption on my AP however i have WPA-TKIP running on it, if i enter the settings by hand then it connects alrigh but will drop out latter (my house is a big RF shield, never worked out why, i dont get mobile phone reception ethier) when this happens it detects my link as not having encryption and drops back to open authentication and overides the settings (ARghh, i have a 33 char password and its a pain to type twice on that keyboard, it takes me about 5 attempts)
as you can imagine it gets stuck at trying to connect to the encrypted network with settings for an unencrypted AP settingns
simple solution was a lan cable
when it did connect it didnt handel dhcp adrsess assignment properly (i says properly because it seems only windows XP machnise cant obtain an IP, *nix and WinCE get one fine)
modding the battery involves pulling the battery pack appart and chucking in higher capacity battries, thees battries are more expensive than the ones they use and hence why they are not in the thing already (its about profits )
the PP laptop project is an upsized PP PDA with heavier hardware (harddrive, bigger screen, crazy ram and battery, FPGA), but its a smal part of somthing much larger
-
Thanks for the clarifications -- just one last problem standing : I don't get what "PP" stands for :-)
-
Pocket Penguin.
-
Doh ! (slaps his head with a rubber brick)
Thanks :-)
-
bit of an update, the backlight buttons dont rely on the OS, which is nice
the joystick and touchpad "just work"
the wifi and bluetooth buttons are OS independent as well as the LEDs to turn them on and off
SD card is on SUB as a cdrom device (ie usb to removable storage), havent checked the CF yet but i belive this may be plugged into a chip on the pci bus
installing debian at the moment so expect a hardware compatability update and a optimised kernel soon
-
bit of an update, the backlight buttons dont rely on the OS, which is nice
the joystick and touchpad "just work"
the wifi and bluetooth buttons are OS independent as well as the LEDs to turn them on and off
SD card is on SUB as a cdrom device (ie usb to removable storage), havent checked the CF yet but i belive this may be plugged into a chip on the pci bus
installing debian at the moment so expect a hardware compatability update and a optimised kernel soon
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158777\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Finally somebody giving Linux on the K a hard look! I look forward to hearing how it goes.
-
well it looks like lots of TI chips (which have decent lin support)
seems debian loaded yenta support (cardbus), not sure if its 16bit or 32 bit but it looks promising, lspci says its a TI PCIxx12 cardbus controller, so it looks promising for usinga CF to PCMIA adaptor and bieng able to use it with 32 bit cardbus as well
i was right about SD, the chip is a TI 5 in 1 card reader (SD MMC MS MS PRO xD), one nice thing is that the kernel picks it up as a SDHC controller, i will leave the rest to you to figure out
there was sominthing about a compaq touch screen driver, but i wouldnt read too much into that
the one problem i am having is making the wifif show up, when i do tha majic key combo the light lights up but i get no recignition of anything chaning in the system, digging through the device manager in windows indicated it was on a USB bus which would make sense (4 usb ports on the companion chip, bluetooth on one, wifi on the other, 2 external) which is a bit of a problem (anyone have any ideas?)
under debain GDM dosent work "out of the box", i am going to try x.org.conf tweaking to see what i can do
anyway enjoy, at the moment i am sturuggling with my root password, which must have dropped a letter on both attempts without me relising it (stupid keyboard). so i hope to have that fixed soon
btw, the keyboard really does take time not only to break in but get used to, if your password is longer than 16 chars then go for somthing shorter or you will end up wasting as much time as i did (45 mins )
Bluetooth is a cambridge device on usb and "just works" with linux (ohh yeah!!!)
sleep button and display switch button dont work as in windows (dosent matter to me, it works as a ~ instead which puts it in a better postion )
-
well it looks like lots of TI chips (which have decent lin support)
seems debian loaded yenta support (cardbus), not sure if its 16bit or 32 bit but it looks promising, lspci says its a TI PCIxx12 cardbus controller, so it looks promising for usinga CF to PCMIA adaptor and bieng able to use it with 32 bit cardbus as well
i was right about SD, the chip is a TI 5 in 1 card reader (SD MMC MS MS PRO xD), one nice thing is that the kernel picks it up as a SDHC controller, i will leave the rest to you to figure out
there was sominthing about a compaq touch screen driver, but i wouldnt read too much into that
the one problem i am having is making the wifif show up, when i do tha majic key combo the light lights up but i get no recignition of anything chaning in the system, digging through the device manager in windows indicated it was on a USB bus which would make sense (4 usb ports on the companion chip, bluetooth on one, wifi on the other, 2 external) which is a bit of a problem (anyone have any ideas?)
under debain GDM dosent work "out of the box", i am going to try x.org.conf tweaking to see what i can do
anyway enjoy, at the moment i am sturuggling with my root password, which must have dropped a letter on both attempts without me relising it (stupid keyboard). so i hope to have that fixed soon
btw, the keyboard really does take time not only to break in but get used to, if your password is longer than 16 chars then go for somthing shorter or you will end up wasting as much time as i did (45 mins )
Bluetooth is a cambridge device on usb and "just works" with linux (ohh yeah!!!)
sleep button and display switch button dont work as in windows (dosent matter to me, it works as a ~ instead which puts it in a better postion )
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158790\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have the same problem with wifi and was going to try and turn it on in the bios and see if it shows up then. I'll have to wait till tomorrow to try that.
cycle_55
-
time for another report
acpi works well, in fact it works flawlessly, i only tested it for detecting the screen bieng closed, battery, and temp but they work fine (thats all i needed), next is suspend to ram and disk but the suspend to disk can wait till i get my kernel out
the screen issue was me doing bad things with X, i enabled several resalutions, however it ranks them by size and of course i chose 1600x1200 as the max for testing, basically it dosent slide and it dosent like having the mode changed at all
debian detecteted and set it up as a vesa device which is fine but i should be able to get a bit more out of it down the track (performance wise, ie accelerated 2d draw)
reminds me i need to release a keyboard mapping as the default one has some notable ommisions (ie '|', which is annoying) there is nothing really that mapps nicly to it so it will be a custom job, at the moment i am using gb but its not and exact match, lucky for me those 2 japanese buttons next too the keyboard would make great buttons for prev/next VT (for those who know my Z's keyboard layout with those 5 buttons at the bottom)
one problem i do have is that VGA is always on, may not seem like much but it chews power. you may also want to note that it is not independent from the LCD screen, its one or the other or both but both must be at the same refresh and rez, hence the 1600x1200 limit when the hardware can do 1080p (over 2000)
still cant get wifi to work but that is somthing i cant work on till i crak the root password, bout to boot a live CD to change it. however before i had an encrypted partion on it which is a PITA unlses you are using the gentoo live CDs to work with
the reason bieng this thing has AES-128 acceleration, so its free security, unfortunattly debian dosent give you a choice of encryption settings so it takes a performance hit during installation and dosent included the reqired module by default (old kernel)
sound is recignised however i havent tested it and the basic cat to dsp dosent work (write error, invalid arg)
a nice tidbit is /dev/input, there are 7 event devices (0 to 6), 3 mice and 3 touch screens (?), turns out the touch screens are generated by the mice devices, i assume to give a fixed rather than reletive value (config option for TS is in the kernel and hard coded). so it isnt a touch screen its just mouse emulation of a touch screen)
cant wait to check out those event devices once i have root
signing off
-
just noticed the screen blanks automatically for the lcd on screen close, as it should
thanks for ttat idea about wifi i will test it on reboot
-
In Ubuntu you only need your password to do a #sudo passwd root. I take it it's different in Debian? I've tried many of the major distros, but not Debian, so I don't know for sure.
-
Dave (Kopsis) has updated his blog with a device report listing in response to a query from someone here. He's not too optimistic about the Winbond chip...
-
For those who don't want to scroll through the entire thread, here is a link:
http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/ (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/)
-
yep thats a proper pcmcia slot alright, just put a flash acrd in and it does the standard pcmcia autodetection stuff
looks like this thing has mmx2 as well as mmx and 3dnow as well as 3dnow2, turns out quake2 is VERY playable on this thing even with some of the graphics turned up , no native rez stuff but 800x600 is fine
monitor out seems stuck at 640x480, need to work out why but it can do that while the screen is at 800x600 (which looks alright to me, could be better but i just pretend i am getting free AA vertically without the performance hit
at the moment i am doing a benchmark of openssl speed before and after inserting aes-i586 (uses mmx or whatever) to see the diffrence, once i build my kernel then i will give the aes acceleration a go
when i compile my kernel i will geta couple of nice things, AES crypto processor, RNG (debian has this built in already) none of the uneeded IDE drivers and such (lean mean fighting machine ) and Geode FB support, which i am hoping will allow me to set abitry sizes so i can do 800x480 and then use X with a FB as the driver (no accelerated but better than vesa)
i must say that the new debian is very well polished for this machine, the acpi stuff works great and tells you how long your battery will last and how long it takes to charge with notifacation which i find handy, when bluetooth is enabled it notifies you and turns itself on, only problem is i am not running and services at the moment to make use of it, and the notification of network status is gerat, keep in mind that i havent every had linux on a laptop and so is all new and shiny
things that work
suspend 2 disk/hibernate (and works well!!!)
network
side rocker (its just a button on the keyboard)
hinge close detection (great with s2d
on screen mouse and keys (up and down is a keyboard button)
brightness (OS independent, very handy that ie works with dos )
speakers
CF (its PCMCIA)
USB
video out (640x480 of whatever is on screen (ie it will down or upscale))
ethernet
on screen LEDs
bluetooth (works great, 12mbps device)
things that dont
suspend to ram
SD
things that need to be fixed
wifi
keyboard mapping
video output
i can see the wifi card with hal-device-manager however it is stuck there (even if disabled, leading me to think there is more too it, well no problem i can rip it out quite eisaly and wire in a linux supported one, i think i prefer cat5 anyway
btw anyone know where winbond puts its wifi chipset info?, i am begining to think its just a rebranded chipset but until i can activate it i cant be sure
-
Da Blitz, this is all very encouraging. I hope Wifi doesn't turn out to be a showstopper, and you can turn all this into an usable distro for us lamerz out there, so we can get rid of XP or at least double-boot :-)
Thanks for your work,
fp
-
Well i have been playing a bit more now
sound is working sort of, the headphone sockets on the front don't work but the speakers do, not sure why. however when you put the headphones in the speakers are disabled. quick side note, its a realtek alc55 and suprorts spidf out, hopefully through the headphone jack but woudnt hold my breath
to get sound working you need to set up your .asoundrc to upmix al input to 48000hz as the chiponly supports this output and apps wil fai otherwise completewith wired cryptic error messages
just found an old cf wifi card i thought didn't work as i had problems with on the Z however it was detected just fine
looks like suspend to ram works, its just gnome cant do it properly. don't know why but doing it from the command line works
typing this on the sa as we speak, keybaord still sucks.takes alot of pressure on the buttons to make sure the keys are recognized
cpu wise this thing isnt bad, takes awhile to load a slashdot page with lots of comments hwoeveri dont mid waiting and you can do some things such as killing off flash and adds to greatly speed things up or use the txt based slashdot theme
so next thing is to compile a custom kernel to get the benifts of things like the crypto processor and that should fix the video out stuff, wil start that when i solder in a new power butto for the PC, of all the things to fail why did it have t be that
-
i have one last tip for anyone else who wants to use gnome, put those bars that are on the top ad bottom of the screen on the sides of the screen, you getmore verticale room and it makes it more 4:3 ike a normal monitor
i guess the same applies to widows with the start menu, give it an hour or two of web browsing and you will appreciate it
-
Da Blitz,
If I remove the 7 screws on the bottom of my Kohjinsha, will the bottom come off without disturbing any of the inside components?
The reason I'm asking is I want to replace the 40GB hard drive with a higher capacity one.
I wonder if that would void the warranty.
Thanks,
Doug
-
i have one last tip for anyone else who wants to use gnome, put those bars that are on the top ad bottom of the screen on the sides of the screen, you getmore verticale room and it makes it more 4:3 ike a normal monitor
i guess the same applies to widows with the start menu, give it an hour or two of web browsing and you will appreciate it
That's a good tip, I've been doing just that for almost 12 years, ever since Windows95 came out :-)
Even 4:3 screens have always been wider than high, while most content we view is higher than wide, so it has always eluded me why UI designers insist on making those tool/task/launch bars horizontal, eating up valuable vertical real estate...
-
thanks for reminding me, i forgot to void the warenty
i have yet to pull the thing apart, i really need to find the pics f the inside again before i do it so i can do some planning
the other reason for not doing it is i just had a minor coolant leakage over my video card, nothing major but there is a 50 50 chance that card is a write off, i am confident it ill work as i caught it within moments of it happening. as you can iagine i dont want 2 brokn machines at the same time
i am hoping to replce the HD with flash, i ran sme pwoer calculations and found that flash uses at least 50% less electicity, not to mention eliminatig that clicking, i haveyet to play with laptop mode hoowever. first i eed to find the /proc flag to dmp file ioo accsess so i can sse whats syncig (i am assumng syslog-ng)
-
it has always eluded me why UI designers insist on making those tool/task/launch bars horizontal, eating up valuable vertical real estate...
I like to see what tasks I have in my taskbar, also I like to be able to see the clock. As you can see from the screenshots, neither are legible when taskbar is vertical.
-
i am pleased to announce that i have got sound working, meaning if you disable suspend on hinge close and map the volume slider to net/prev track then it becomes a nice media player (i use mpd)
basiacally i had to use alsamixer to enable "duplicate front' (haha, just found the pipe and " buttons), PCM is the master volume, master is the speakers and surround is the headphones, being able to have the speakers and headphones at 2 different volumes and being able to mute ethier or both is very handy
dontforget to set output to 48000hz in the program or .asoundrc
as for my desktop, i have included a pic. i tried gdesklets but was unhappy with the very high cpu usage ad over 170MB of ram usage for 4 applets
also i like firefox's spell check so expect an improvement n spelling, that and the keyboard finally beginning to be broken n means i will be using this device alot more
files will be up soon (kernel, x.org xorg.conf, asoundrc, keymap for console and X, and others (what did i forget?)
also included my current sa setup, still polishing it but it gives me the stats i what (notification of music change, eth plug in and out, power including charge and discharge time, message notification and to top it off cpu and hard drive temp (very handy)) the start menu in the top left is the gnome 'smart start menu" aka main menu and the bottom left is the window selector applet,its nice as it displays a link for each program on every virtual desktop, not just the one you are on and its small so i replaced the task bar with it. maxes switching virtual desktops easier
i expect now that i have sound working that i sh ould have a bit of extra motivation to do the other stuff . adding matchbox and running stuff similar to the Z is my next goal after full hardware support
and finally some extra productivity hints fr size constrained keyboards, my setup is F1 - xterm, F2 - Maximise program, F3 - web browser, F4 - (alt + F4) close app, F5 - F8 switch between virtuap desktps. if you know you app names well then i would change F3 t a "run command" app
enjoy
-
Da Blitz,
If I remove the 7 screws on the bottom of my Kohjinsha, will the bottom come off without disturbing any of the inside components?
The reason I'm asking is I want to replace the 40GB hard drive with a higher capacity one.
I wonder if that would void the warranty.
Thanks,
Doug
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I know this isn't addressed to me but....
If you are absolutely sure that you really want to do this, I could give you some pointers as I have taken both my K's apart. I would not recommend it as the connectors holding the flex cables are very fragile. I am assuming that my warranty is void.
cycle_55
-
Da Blitz,
If I remove the 7 screws on the bottom of my Kohjinsha, will the bottom come off without disturbing any of the inside components?
The reason I'm asking is I want to replace the 40GB hard drive with a higher capacity one.
I wonder if that would void the warranty.
Thanks,
Doug
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I know this isn't addressed to me but....
If you are absolutely sure that you really want to do this, I could give you some pointers as I have taken both my K's apart. I would not recommend it as the connectors holding the flex cables are very fragile. I am assuming that my warranty is void.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think I'll just make use of my 2.5" external hard drive instead then.
Thanks,
Doug
-
well i found a list of winbond wifi cards (its like pulling teath) and i would agree that its the W89C35D 11g USB2.0 Card as its the only wifi card they make that uses usb
there is one funny bug with it, i can see it but cannot enable or disable it with the hotkeys like with bluetooth, so i am assuming that its power pins are not connected to the usb port but instead to the internal power rails, not that it matters
there is a 2.4 dirver by winbond themselves, i did manage to find a product brief that lists the features (such as aes and all that stuff and Wake on WLAN). so unless there is someone with time to burn i would not expect there to be any wifi support as this chip is RARE, and i do mean rare. i cant find any mention of other hardware with the chip, and there is no direct link to the docs on the winbond website.
-
Ok, Linux purists, look away now
It turns out another option for Linux on the Kohjinsha is to use VirtualBox to run a Linux virtual machine on Windows. The speed is surprisingly good (even in GNOME) and the virtual network operates through the built-in WiFi perfectly. With the VirtualBox guest OS drivers installed I can even run fullscreen at the native 800x480 resolution. This post is coming to you from Firefox in Ubuntu 6.06LTS on my SA1! That is a pleasant surprise considering neither VMWare nor Parallels will run on this machine.
The downside is that it takes a relatively long time to boot, and I'm sure that it's still not as fast as running native. Lastly, if you want direct access to hardware for things like WiFi hacking, this isn't going to cut it. But if you just want to run Linux apps in a real Linux environment (as opposed to something like Cygwin), this is not a bad solution.
-
AAAHHHHH, my eyes they burn!!!.
the googles... they do nothing
-
Ok, Linux purists, look away now
It turns out another option for Linux on the Kohjinsha is to use VirtualBox to run a Linux virtual machine on Windows. The speed is surprisingly good (even in GNOME) and the virtual network operates through the built-in WiFi perfectly. With the VirtualBox guest OS drivers installed I can even run fullscreen at the native 800x480 resolution. This post is coming to you from Firefox in Ubuntu 6.06LTS on my SA1! That is a pleasant surprise considering neither VMWare nor Parallels will run on this machine.
Good news indeed, and thanks for the tip about the little-known VirtualBox !
I'm sure Da Blitz will get his own way eventually, but in the meantime we have a proven workaround... :-)
-
If you google for "kohjinsha", it will list www.kohjinsha.com.
It is a Japanese website, but google will translate it (sort of).
Anyway, scroll down the page for a link to drivers.
There are linux drivers for the following:
> Media slot Driver - Improvement of compatibility of SDHC card
> AES driver - For kernel 2.6.x
> Chip set Driver - For kernel 2.6.x
> Video driver - For kernel 2.6.x
> Sound driver - For kernel 2.6.x
> Mouse driver - For kernel 2.6.x
> Wireless LAN Driver - For kernel 2.6.x
> Bluetooth Driver - For kernel 2.6.x
-
Impressive catch -- we're so accustomed to having to reverse-engineer everything that the last place we'd look is on the vendor website (especially in Japanese :-)...
The Google tools are surprisingly good for this, too.
Da Blitz, is this for real ? Unfortunately it seems the Wifi file contains binary, not code...
-
$%#@*%^&*(^&$%<^$!!!!!!!
now i am impressed with them (and i thought thier windows setup was good)
actually the only thing we really need from them is perhaps the video driver and definattly the wifi, everything else is in the mainline
i knew winbond had 2.4 drivers but 2.6, thats great news
trying now, will report back in the next couple of hours
-
guess who gave us a binary kernel module [edit] sorry fpp, misread your post [/edit]
will try it latter, but looks like it will make life difficult
also it gave me some clues as to how to set the VGA out port to the desired resoultion, i may need to get in touch with somene still running windows to run a test or two for me
-
well a quick load of the module and i get an error saying its not in the corect format
thanks for playing try againg next time
anyway it disagrees on symbol struct_module, i am assuming its because i am running somthing latter than what the module expects
if they have a binary perhaps they have more. will get an email message formatted and ready to go. if there is anyone who speaks japanese who wonts to proof read it and make sure its easy to translate then feel free to post
-
I'll proofread it for ya.
-
also it gave me some clues as to how to set the VGA out port to the desired resoultion, i may need to get in touch with somene still running windows to run a test or two for me
Windows tests ? Just ask :-)
-
BTW, the rumored touchscreen version does exist after all.
-
Could you elaborate on that, fpp?
(EDIT: Full specs (courtesy of conics.net) HERE (http://conics.net/temp/sa1f00/specs-KOHJINSHA-vw.html). Costs about 902$, whilst the non-touchscreen models cost about $769.)
Anyways, what's the general consensus on this one? Is it good, or more importantly, is it worth the money?
I'm pretty sure that it has enough horsepower to handle general tasks (office & internet), but what about multimedia? How's the 3D performance (I'm not talking about anything recent, but more like Quake 1 or something like that.)?
It seems like a good device, but I've seen similar devices that are much more powerful (though more expensive, quite obviously) from Fujitsu, and some UMPCs, that are quite similar (but keyboardless).
-
All the info you need, pros & cons, lies in the 15+ pages of this very thread, and on Kopsis' blog. Sorry for being too lazy to sum up... plus, I own one, so I'm biased :-)
-
While I'm semi-tempted by the new touchscreen Kohjinsha...
But then started thinking that by the time that you get it with 1GB RAM and 100GB HD, you've now spent about the same ($1000 +/-) as what a new or refurbed Fujitsu P1610 is going for on eBay...
Granted the P1610 is slightly larger (about 1/2" wider and 1/4" deeper...) but, it has better specs and probably better build quality, right??
Of course, then I start thinking about the new Fujitsu 'McCaslin' mini-TabletPC that Intel just showed as part of their presentation.....
So, it goes....
-
that annoyed me when i heard the anounment, but thats what i get
anyway it plays quake 2 at native rez just fine without slowdown, you might even be able to shoe horn quake 3 on there with the graphigs turned down (i had everything enabled for quake 2, but with a hacked autoconf file)
youtube plays fine if you turn the quality to low, sits at 90% when playing
-
the windows tests are simple, basically i didnt leave windows on there for long and never played with the monitor
what i need to know is if you want a higher rez on the monitor output does that also put that same rez on the screen (ie if you wanted 1280x1024, is that the same rez bieng pumped out by the monitor and the lcd screen)
i assume thats the case and that you cant change them independentlly, i might point out that under linux at the moment i have the lcd at 800x600 and the VGA out downscaling the 800x600 lcd output to 640x480 (it looks bad but its ok for some things)
i am assuming at this point in time that the "video for linux" part that isnt mainline yet controls the scaling eigine. email msgs from AMD indicate that they were not concontrating on this feature or would leave it till last so its inclusion on the kohjinsha website leads me to belive that it is controlled thrugh that interface rather than presenting a second monitor output (which it cant do and would be ugly in x.org as the second one couldnt display anything)
one advantage is that the rez could be changed easily (output, not the display) althogh xrandr handels that well these days
Dir Sirs
We are a group of mobile computing enthusiast who use or mainly run linux on our devices such as the zaurus by sharp.
we noticed on your website patches for the 2.6 linux kernel for driver support of the hardware on the device. however we noticed that you provide a binary driver for the widcomm wifi chipset.
We have tried loading the module however there was not enough infomation provided to tell us which kernel it is compatibel with. after looking around online we could not find the source code to this device so that we could use the device. having the source code would be the ideal solution as we would not have to worry about the diffrent kernel virsions and which ones are compatible
we humbely ask you for accsess to the source code so that we may use wifi under linux
thank you for listining and taking our requests into consideration
Jay @#$$# on behalf of the OESF community
misc @ mydomain
i tried to approach them in the manner i believe the are accustomed to, i am not sure if i hit the nail on the head with that one but i feel i was close, anyone good with the culture with emphasis on business deals? i think thats the aproch to take but my experince only comes from watching one to many anime (for refrence i hae gone for fudeal japan in the way i talk to them. ie talking to someone who is of higher class)
tell me if i am crazy. thats just what i think and i like to pretend i understand psychology... and spelling
i dont want to force the GPL postion in the opening rounds, i dont think that is a good way to aproch it and i am not sure about the leaglease stuff in this case, you know how the wifi companies are. i belive in this case if they felt "threatened" by the GPL they would mearly pull the drivers. i will make an offsite backup before posting of the drivers in case they pull them and we latter need the drivers
comments?
-
Hi Da Blitz,
I think you are approaching them correctly. Just a bit of spell checker would certainly improve your email ;-)
-
thanks, i thought i was going over the top.
should go to firefox 2 like i have on the kohjinsha as it has that nice spell check feature
will wait a day or two then send it off in case someone wants to comment on it
-
Do you need it translated or are you gonna send it in English?
-
not sure, i suppose translated is best but i didnt think anyone would offer (if you are willing !!)
-
not sure, i suppose translated is best but i didnt think anyone would offer (if you are willing !!)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I can do it, but I'm snowed under now... So only gonna take the time if you are serious about it. If you don't care, then just send in English.
-
well i did a bit more searching and found a link to someone fiddling with ndis wrapper (i belive its in french)
http://www.andesi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=51281 (http://www.andesi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=51281)
i got the basics and it looks like he is using a kohjinsha (i searched for te serial number and the chip identifies itself tha same way, considering the lack of info i would say its only used in this product)
says ho wolud get back to them then nothing, oh well
guess its onto the email message
-
Yes, it's in French, but it's not about a KJS, he's grappling with a USB Wifi adapter with a Winbond chip. Maybe it's exactly the same as in the KJS though, so if the NDIS wrapper gimmick works for him it might work for us...
Want me to PM him to see if he's still around there ?
-
Rather than open a new thread (maybe we need a forum for people's candidates for the z-killer or next best thing), I'll put this here because it is a K-like device: The Data Evolution Corp Cathena. Too big and heavy to be a Z replacement, but pricing doesn't seem to be too bad, swivel screen and claimed to have a touch screen.
Edit: I originally linked to the wrong product page, here is the right one for Cathena CX -- thanks b_lizzard, from later post:
http://www.dataevolution.com/cathena_cx_info.htm (http://www.dataevolution.com/cathena_cx_info.htm)
Edit: Apr 26 pdf news release: http://www.dataevolution.com/pdf/PR%20-%20...0CX%20Final.pdf (http://www.dataevolution.com/pdf/PR%20-%20Cathena%20CX%20Final.pdf)
The spec's from LinuxDevices.com:
Key features and specifications of the Cathena CX, according to the company, include:
* Processor -- AMD Geode LX800, clocked at 500MHz
* Memory -- 512MB SDRAM, expandable to 1GB
* Storage -- built-in 40, 80, or 100GB hard drive
* Display:
o 7-inch TFT WVGA (800 x 480) LCD
* User input devices:
o Passive matrix touch-screen
o Built-in touch pad
o QWERTY keyboard
o 5-way directional joystick
* Wireless:
o Integrated 802.11b/g WiFi
o Bluetooth 2.0+ with EDR
* Audio:
o Built in stereo speakers
o Audio in/out jacks
o Volume control
* Other input/output ports:
o Ethernet
o 2 x USB 2.0
o VGA video out (max. 1600x1200)
* Memory card reader (SD/MMC/MS/CF)
* Power -- Li-Ion battery, approx. 5 hours operation
* Size -- 8.6 x 6.4 x 1 inches (218 x 163 x 25.4mm)
* Weight -- 2.2 lbs (990g)
Availability
The Cathena CX is currently available with a choice of Windows XP (Home or Pro) or Windows XP Embedded, and is priced from $799 (depending on options).
-
That Cathena it's the Kohjinsha+touchscreen, but for an unknown reason they changed the name.
-
It looks cheaper, though. And also, better support.
-
if you colud PM him that would be great, might as well ask him if its the KJS, you never know
oh well if no one has any comments on the email i will send it off tomorrow
-
just noticed that thats a diffrent company offering the Cathena.
things could get intreseting
-
What am I missing? At the link you provided, which seems to be the company that makes it, it says that it has a 12" non-touch-screen. I assume that the linux devices information is for a different computer.
-
What am I missing? At the link you provided, which seems to be the company that makes it, it says that it has a 12" non-touch-screen
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=160016\")
My bad .... the Apr 26 pdf news release on the same site has the right 7 in screen.
[a href=\"http://www.dataevolution.com/pdf/PR%20-%20Cathena%20CX%20Final.pdf]http://www.dataevolution.com/pdf/PR%20-%20...0CX%20Final.pdf[/url]
I'll update the original post.
-
The product page for the Cathena CX is here (http://www.dataevolution.com/cathena_cx_info.htm).
-
AAAHHHHH, my eyes they burn!!!.
the googles... they do nothing :(
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
- Omigod! I'm DYIN'
-
if you colud PM him that would be great, might as well ask him if its the KJS, you never know
Actually I did so right away without waiting for your answer. He's been posting to that forum recently, we'll see if he gets back to me...
-
Well, looks like angelv over at http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/ (http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/) managed to get the binary Kohjinsha WiFi driver working with RH4. He's promised details soon
I see he's also started a SA1 Users mailing list on Google Groups (http://groups.google.com/group/kohjinsha-sa1f00-users (http://groups.google.com/group/kohjinsha-sa1f00-users)). Probably a good idea ... seems odd that right now one of the most active English SA1 discussions is buried on a Zaurus forum
-
I keep saying this should be a mobilty fourm dedicated to linux, there are other mobility fourms out there but they are all windows witha linux fourm that gets 2 posts a year
still i think i will be signing up to that list
as a side note, been having problems with S3 suspend, the other day i noticed it turns on at random. i did some thinking while in bed and as soon as i thought of it the thing turned on by itself
i didnt know there was a telepathy module in there, i will have to check lsusb again
anyway, seems you cant disable "turn on from S3 when lid is opened" which i find anoying as a slight twist of the screen can turn the thing on without anyone noticing (supprising how long that battery lasts when playing mp3s/doing nothing, it defitattly gets 5 hours and i think i can push it to 6 hours)
final note is that acpitool -B gives you how much battery capacity the thing has in its battery pack (in miliwattts) as well as its current consumption in mW's
lcd off, and playing mp3s/ doing nothing it draws 420mW, screen on 550mW, battery capacity on mine is 2550mW fully charged (it tells me its rated at 2540mW but charged to higher )
-
I'm in that list real soon too
-
I keep saying this should be a mobilty fourm dedicated to linux, there are other mobility fourms out there but they are all windows witha linux fourm that gets 2 posts a year
still i think i will be signing up to that list
as a side note, been having problems with S3 suspend, the other day i noticed it turns on at random. i did some thinking while in bed and as soon as i thought of it the thing turned on by itself
i didnt know there was a telepathy module in there, i will have to check lsusb again
anyway, seems you cant disable "turn on from S3 when lid is opened" which i find anoying as a slight twist of the screen can turn the thing on without anyone noticing (supprising how long that battery lasts when playing mp3s/doing nothing, it defitattly gets 5 hours and i think i can push it to 6 hours)
final note is that acpitool -B gives you how much battery capacity the thing has in its battery pack (in miliwattts) as well as its current consumption in mW's
lcd off, and playing mp3s/ doing nothing it draws 420mW, screen on 550mW, battery capacity on mine is 2550mW fully charged (it tells me its rated at 2540mW but charged to higher )
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160053\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I am mostly running windows on mine and almost never power down. I just put it on standby and am quite sure that at least a couple of times it randomly turned itself back on. I have noticed some bios upgrades on the Kohjinsha site. On another note, I would hate to see this discussion leave. I know this is an oe site and all that but this information is useful in an overall sense even though it is not specific to the Z. I think we should ask to have a 'Mobility Linux' section added to this site or the tyrannozaurus site.
-
I noticed that the Cathena appeared on linuxdevices, so I told them it was already around as the Kohjinsha, and pointed them here.
Welcome, LinuxDevices.com readers!
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2032212006.html (http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2032212006.html)
-
i wasent too sure if they picked up on that or not
however they do mention the company thats selling them in the us is linux friendly which is good. however all the hard work has been done for them. the hardware design is great in that its os independent. i mean the backlight, touchpad and pointer should all work under dos if you gave it a go
its only the wifi
-
just noticed the llatest openbsd release had a whole lot of support for the LX chip and its companion (ie this laptop) including the IDE chipset and the AES crypto engine
migh be worth giving it a shot as i am getting some wierd file system coruptoin (must not play with hdparm)
-
Has anyone tried using external CF wifi cards that they use with their Zauri?
I am asking because apparently the built-in usb wifi is not working well under Linux and as I found out it is most likely not supported in wifi wardriving software like NetStumbler or AiroPeek/AirMagnet.
I am considering purchasing the touch screen model on my trip to Singapore in the end of the month , but having wardriving capabilities is important to me and if internal card is not supported then at least being able to do it with my Ambicom card that serves me so well with my Z.
-
The Kohjinsha has a Type I CF card slot see specs (http://conics.net/temp/sa1f00/specs-KOHJINSHA.html).
A wireless CF card is too wide (Type II) and will not fit in the slot.
Actually, the slot is wide enough, but they have put in some bumpers that prevent you from inserting anything wider than a regular CF card.
I don't know if a wireless card would work in it if those bumpers were removed, but I'm sure doing that would void the warranty.
Someone should check it out (but not me)
-
Actually, most CF WiFi cards I've used are Type 1. The only Type 2 CF "card" I've seen is my 4G microdrive. I don't have any of my WiFi cards handy (the beauty of the SA1 is that I don't have to carry all that junk around any more) but I did find an old wired ethernet CF card and when I plugged it in, Windows detected it and prompted me to install drivers. I didn't try to go any farther than that (since I know this particular card is broken), but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.
Now, whether Linux running on the SA1 would see it may be another matter, but I believe a few posts back that someone (Da Blitz?) determined that the CF slot was being handled as PCMCIA just like it is on the Zaurus.
-
My CF memory cards all go in the slot just fine, as does my wired ethernet CF card.
My wireless CF card is too wide and will not go into the slot, but it fits perfectly in my Zaurus.
-
My ambicom wireless card goes in fine and is recognized, have not tried it with linux yet.
cycle_55
-
my netgear wifi card works fine, detected and worked
-
Then my wireless card must be the oddball.
It works great in my Zaurus, though.
-
Thanks for all the replies guys!
I don't think my card is type II
I have read the CF specs and apparently the only difference between TYPE I and TYPE II is width and all other dimensions are the same.
My wifi card seems to be the same width as all my regular memory cards so I guess it should fit in just fine.
So Da_Blitz it worked for you under linux too?
-
never tested it under windows
i belive the cf2 spec calls for higher power draw, hence why the form factor is diffrent (so you cant plug a higher current device in)
-
Not according to http://www.compactflash.org/faqs/faq.htm (http://www.compactflash.org/faqs/faq.htm)
They say that the only difference between type I and type II is dimensions while electrically they are the same.
Anyway gotta wait for my trip now and hope I will find the device in Sim Lin square stores
-
ok, here in Singapore, I can confirm that the Kohjinsha appeared at the iKnown store under PA Mart in a world book fair in Suntec.
Two models: Black 40gb, White 100gb
Both: 512mb, touch-screen 7" *LED* backlight etc.
Only complain I have is that the keyboard ... is very stiff and small. It's more like the size of a Jornada keyboard, but stiffer. It would be more touch-typeable if it were softer. Maybe using it for a while will loosen it up, I don't know.
4-5hr batt life ... supposedly anyway.
Hope I'm not writing things that you already know.
oh, did I mention, that it has a promo price of SGD$1050 for the black unit and SGD$1199 for the white unit? Converts to 687.623 USD and
785.200 USD respectively.
Still deliberating on getting it. If the keyboard is nicer and I'm not so used to my notebooks, I would have gotten it already.
It's nice and all ... too bad, they did not install any tablet related app to really show off the tablet mode. It comes with WindowsXP Home, and not XPTablet. Installing Office is supposed to make hand recognition work.
-
Here are the specs in short FYI:
CPU: AMD® Geode™ -LX800
Cache: 64KB instruction cache +64KB data cache
Graphics: AMD® Geode™ CS5536 (+ 8MB video RAM)
RAM: PC2700 (SODIMM DDR333): 512MB or 1GB (1 slot)
Display: 7-inch 800x480 touchscreen TFT LCD
Input: 77 key Japanese keyboards, touchscreen, stick pointer, scroll button and mouse button
LAN: 10BASE-T/100BASE-TX
Wireless LAN: IEEE802.11b/g
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Sound: Realtek AC'97 Audio, Built-in stereo speaker, Built-in microphone and brightness setting button,
External memory: 3In1 media card slot, SD memory card (SDHC & SDIO !), Memory stick/MMC card, CF card slot (Type-1)
USB: 2.0 x1
Video output: Analog CRT port ×1
Standard battery: Lithium ion battery (11.1V 2600mAH)
Drive time: ~ 5 hour
Charge time: ~ 2.2 hours
Power consumption: The maximum time 60W, usually the time at the time of 15W/economical electric power at the time of 2W and waiting under 2W
Dimensions: 218mm (W) x 163mm (D) x 25.4mm (H)
Weight: 990g (with battery)
-
A couple of questions about the touchscreen version :
- does the tactile digitizer noticeably degrade the display compared to the original non-touchscreen SA1 ?
- when the new version first appeared, there was a rumour on a forum over here that maybe the touchscreen was something special that required the stylus provided by KJS to work with. This came from a board member who only had the unit in hand for a few moments, and was unable to use the screen with his fingers or the stylus of his own PDA. Can anyone confirm or deny this ?
TIA,
fp
-
A couple of questions about the touchscreen version :
- does the tactile digitizer noticeably degrade the display compared to the original non-touchscreen SA1 ?
- when the new version first appeared, there was a rumour on a forum over here that maybe the touchscreen was something special that required the stylus provided by KJS to work with. This came from a board member who only had the unit in hand for a few moments, and was unable to use the screen with his fingers or the stylus of his own PDA. Can anyone confirm or deny this ?
TIA,
fp
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162134\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
AFA the ones I tested at the bookfair are concerned, I had no non-touchscreen SA1s to compare with, but the ones I tested were pretty bright and crisp.
I can use my fingers and finger nails on the screen. Actually, I probably used my nails as I've always been on my PDAs and Zaurus.
Why? Oh Why must the keyboard be so stiff ...
-
A couple of questions about the touchscreen version :
- does the tactile digitizer noticeably degrade the display compared to the original non-touchscreen SA1 ?
- when the new version first appeared, there was a rumour on a forum over here that maybe the touchscreen was something special that required the stylus provided by KJS to work with. This came from a board member who only had the unit in hand for a few moments, and was unable to use the screen with his fingers or the stylus of his own PDA. Can anyone confirm or deny this ?
TIA,
fp
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162134\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
AFA the ones I tested at the bookfair are concerned, I had no non-touchscreen SA1s to compare with, but the ones I tested were pretty bright and crisp.
I can use my fingers and finger nails on the screen. Actually, I probably used my nails as I've always been on my PDAs and Zaurus.
Why? Oh Why must the keyboard be so stiff ...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162143\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with this keyboard? There must be something wrong with me....
cycle_55
I keep forgetting that this is an international forum and should have written "does not" instead of "doesn't".
-
Anyone else have (no) problem with the keyboard?
-
A couple of questions about the touchscreen version :
- does the tactile digitizer noticeably degrade the display compared to the original non-touchscreen SA1 ?
- when the new version first appeared, there was a rumour on a forum over here that maybe the touchscreen was something special that required the stylus provided by KJS to work with. This came from a board member who only had the unit in hand for a few moments, and was unable to use the screen with his fingers or the stylus of his own PDA. Can anyone confirm or deny this ?
TIA,
fp
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162134\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
AFA the ones I tested at the bookfair are concerned, I had no non-touchscreen SA1s to compare with, but the ones I tested were pretty bright and crisp.
I can use my fingers and finger nails on the screen. Actually, I probably used my nails as I've always been on my PDAs and Zaurus.
Why? Oh Why must the keyboard be so stiff ...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162143\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with this keyboard? There must be something wrong with me....
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162144\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Obviously you're not the only one, since the last comment was a complaint on the keyboard.
Complaining for the sake of complaining accomplishes nothing.
R.
==
-
Following Snappy's reply, I went to the show room of
Personal Automation Mart Pte Ltd (P.A. Mart Pte Ltd)
109, North Bridge Road #04-18
Funan The IT Mall Singapore 179097
Tel: (+65) 6338 3530 Fax: (+65) 6338 3532
Website:www.pamart.com.sg
to test drive the Kohjinsha SA1F00W (S$1,198 =US$790)
[img]http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/04/kohjinsha_02.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
The black version, Kohjinsha SA1F00V (S41,049 = US$690),
[img]http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/04/kohjinsha_01.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
is not available for testing.
The salesman was asking me to pre-order and said that it was selling like a hot cake ever since the news was published on the local Sunday Times on 27/05. The new stock should be available on 29/5. When I saw the latest Compaq notebook running at 1.7GHz costing about S$1,299, I held back my purchase.
When asked whether the company planned to introduce the machine during the forthcoming PC Show at Singapore Suntec City Convention Centre from 31/5 - 3/6. The salesman said that they might want to do so. Normally, you will expect big discounts or good deals for every IT devices during the trade fair.
The following were my observation during testing:
I could feel the heat emitting from the demo set that is running by the adaptor.
The TFT colour screen was not so sharp as expected.
The keyboard is indeed not suitable for those who have big fingers.
-
I keep forgetting that this is an international forum and should have written "does not" instead of "doesn't".
This is a new one to me. Are you implying that non-native English speakers (readers) aren't (are not ) familiar with the apostrophe abbreviations? If so that is something I wasn't (was not) aware of.
-
Thanks freizugheit &others for the quick feedback on my questions.
Oh, and I do have issues with the keyboard too :-)
Apparently something can be done about that, see the latest post in Kopsis' blog, or the SA1 Google Group.
-
Is the Kohjinsha capable of running Vista?
It's my understanding that M$ won't be allowing OEM XP by the end of the year. I expect to see hardware specs for UMPC's to jump soon if not already.
-
I keep forgetting that this is an international forum and should have written "does not" instead of "doesn't".
This is a new one to me. Are you implying that non-native English speakers (readers) aren't (are not ) familiar with the apostrophe abbreviations? If so that is something I wasn't (was not) aware of.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162162\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I apologize if I insulted anyone, that was not my intention. It is my understanding that translation engines are not able to deal with the apostrophe, and the next poster appeared to misunderstand my question.
cycle_55
-
I keep forgetting that this is an international forum and should have written "does not" instead of "doesn't".
This is a new one to me. Are you implying that non-native English speakers (readers) aren't (are not ) familiar with the apostrophe abbreviations? If so that is something I wasn't (was not) aware of.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162162\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Me too. I thought that was only true of androids.
edit: In light of the post above, I should say and translators.
-
Is the Kohjinsha capable of running Vista?
Have a look at the minimum system requirement (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/systemrequirements.mspx) for Windows Vista.
BTW, I forgot to mention that the Kohjinsha SA1F00W or V does not come with an external CD-ROM drive. Hence you need pocket about US$100 to purchase a USB CD-ROM drive.
-
Is the Kohjinsha capable of running Vista?
Have a look at the minimum system requirement (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/systemrequirements.mspx) for Windows Vista.
BTW, I forgot to mention that the Kohjinsha SA1F00W or V does not come with an external CD-ROM drive. Hence you need pocket about US$100 to purchase a USB CD-ROM drive.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think Antikx was really wondering if Kohjinsha will, at some point, start shipping SA1s with some flavor of Vista pre-installed. But I suspect that by the time Microsoft gets really serious about not letting OEMs ship XP (even on hardware that doesn't meet Vista min requirements), Kohjinsha will have a new machine out that replaces the SA1 (my guess would be about this time next year).
I really can't see any good reason for installing Vista on an SA1 that already has XP. You wouldn't get the Aero UI (no 3D graphics chip) and I suspect what you would get would run slower than molasses in January
But if you do need an external optical drive for installing something more useful (like Linux), $25 for an IDE/USB enclosure and $5 for a flea-market 5.25" CD-ROM drive will do the trick. You can get by even cheaper if you do what I did and find a really good sale on a 3.5" enclosure and just duct tape its guts to an old CD-ROM drive (yes, I did watch a few too many episodes of MacGyver as a kid)
-
But if you do need an external optical drive for installing something more useful (like Linux), $25 for an IDE/USB enclosure and $5 for a flea-market 5.25" CD-ROM drive will do the trick. You can get by even cheaper if you do what I did and find a really good sale on a 3.5" enclosure and just duct tape its guts to an old CD-ROM drive (yes, I did watch a few too many episodes of MacGyver as a kid)
you may laugh at that however thats what i did, funny thing is i did it all with a swiss army knife as well
one thing i have always wanted to try is netboot + grub. appartentlly there is a way to setup a netboot server so that it boots grub that then presents you iwth a achoice of OS's to install. if you change OS's, do virtulaisation or any other funky stuff where you have to install a bit it could be nice
or my faviorte trick, knoopix + qemu + kqemu + windows install. install windows to the local drive while surfing the net!!!... some assembly reqiuired
-
But if you do need an external optical drive for installing something more useful (like Linux), $25 for an IDE/USB enclosure and $5 for a flea-market 5.25" CD-ROM drive will do the trick.
When I first received mine I was in a hurry so I borrowed an external DVD burner from a friend, it was litterally huge and bigger than the SA1 itself :
http://www.monbo.net/KJS/KJS-SA1-CDROM.jpg (http://www.monbo.net/KJS/KJS-SA1-CDROM.jpg)
Later I dug into my treasure chest and found a "slimline" plain CD reader that came from an old laptop. I shopped around and found an enclosure specially made for those by ICY-BOX (about 25$). This is more in line with the SA1 size and looks, plus it's powered by the USB port if you really need it :
http://www.monbo.net/KJS/KJS-SA1-KB.jpg (http://www.monbo.net/KJS/KJS-SA1-KB.jpg)
You can get by even cheaper if you do what I did and find a really good sale on a 3.5" enclosure and just duct tape its guts to an old CD-ROM drive (yes, I did watch a few too many episodes of MacGyver as a kid)
Well, it's good of you to own up to that, but after that hairbrush-bristles-in-the-keyboard hack job, it was more or less public knowledge already, right ? :-)
-
i remeber someone talking about changing the hard driev with a CF card and getting incresed battery life, not sure if it was here or the mailing list but can anyone give me nummbers on how much more battery life they got out of it, should have a 16GB CF card comming in this week and depending how it goes its goiung in the Z or the kohjinsha
-
i remeber someone talking about changing the hard driev with a CF card and getting incresed battery life, not sure if it was here or the mailing list but can anyone give me nummbers on how much more battery life they got out of it, should have a 16GB CF card comming in this week and depending how it goes its goiung in the Z or the kohjinsha
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm hoping that SDHC will come to the Z, in which case you could fit a 16GB sdhc card, then with an internal 16GB cf card you've have a pretty mighty Zaurus!
-
i remeber someone talking about changing the hard driev with a CF card and getting incresed battery life, not sure if it was here or the mailing list but can anyone give me nummbers on how much more battery life they got out of it, should have a 16GB CF card comming in this week and depending how it goes its goiung in the Z or the kohjinsha
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm hoping that SDHC will come to the Z, in which case you could fit a 16GB sdhc card, then with an internal 16GB cf card you've have a pretty mighty Zaurus!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I don't see how storage alone makes the Z mighty. I think a RAM or CPU upgrade would be necessary to make the Z mightier than it already is for me.
-
i remeber someone talking about changing the hard driev with a CF card and getting incresed battery life, not sure if it was here or the mailing list but can anyone give me nummbers on how much more battery life they got out of it, should have a 16GB CF card comming in this week and depending how it goes its goiung in the Z or the kohjinsha
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm hoping that SDHC will come to the Z, in which case you could fit a 16GB sdhc card, then with an internal 16GB cf card you've have a pretty mighty Zaurus!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I don't see how storage alone makes the Z mighty. I think a RAM or CPU upgrade would be necessary to make the Z mightier than it already is for me.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162339\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
That'd depend entirely on how it is used, I expect. otoh more ram would have been nice
-
I don't know how long more I can resist getting one ... I think I might crumble this weekend and just get one. Heck with the keyboard ... I guess it will 'soften' over time?
-
I don't know how long more I can resist getting one ... I think I might crumble this weekend and just get one. Heck with the keyboard ... I guess it will 'soften' over time?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162349\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Do not fear the keyboard.... There is of course a chance that not all the keyboards are exactly the same and maybe mine is the only one like this. Mine is fine and if it were not, I would ask them to send me another one. The amount of pressure I have to apply to any one key is not that much different than on the C3100. The key travels further than a key on the Z but the amount of pressure is only marginally different. The key has to be pressed dead center otherwise nothing is registered which is what one would want on a small keyboard when touch typing. Pressing off center or two keys at once registers nothing instead of the wrong letter. Other than the Z, this has got to be the most useful laptop I have ever owned. For what it is worth these are my thoughts after using mine everyday for a few months. Good luck.
cycle_55
-
it takes awhile to break in and i find having my hands come down from a more vertical postion helps, putting the back up a bit helps to reduce mistakes but for real work i jsut vnc into it or ssh
its not bad but i wouldnt want to use it as my primary keyboard
-
Thanks for the encouragement!
I'm probably going to retire one of my notebooks and see how it can replace my zaurus.
I don't know how long more I can resist getting one ... I think I might crumble this weekend and just get one. Heck with the keyboard ... I guess it will 'soften' over time?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162349\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Do not fear the keyboard.... There is of course a chance that not all the keyboards are exactly the same and maybe mine is the only one like this. Mine is fine and if it were not, I would ask them to send me another one. The amount of pressure I have to apply to any one key is not that much different than on the C3100. The key travels further than a key on the Z but the amount of pressure is only marginally different. The key has to be pressed dead center otherwise nothing is registered which is what one would want on a small keyboard when touch typing. Pressing off center or two keys at once registers nothing instead of the wrong letter. Other than the Z, this has got to be the most useful laptop I have ever owned. For what it is worth these are my thoughts after using mine everyday for a few months. Good luck.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162359\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
-
The stiffness of the keyboard isn't that hard to get used to. It will soften slightly over time but it will always feel stiff if you come back to it after using a regular laptop KB. The issues I had with it (layout and dropping keys) are both fixable (http://superdave.blogdns.org/superdave/KohjinshaKeyboardImprovement) with a small investment of time and money.
But even before I fixed the KB, I used my SA1 every day. The capability and convenience more than outweighs any minor usability flaws
-
I'll tell ya ... this is one hell of a gadget!
Left it in suspend mode after fully recharging it ... it dropped only 10% batt after five hours of suspend ... *grin*
Will have to try 12 hours suspend to see if it survive.
The keyboard on the unit I got turn out to be softer than the demo unit. woo hoo ...
btw, besides getting Portrait Pivot Pro to rotate the screen display, does anyone know how to activate the screen rotation? I'm referring to rotating the visual display to show portrait and landscape mode and not transforming the unit from clamshell to tablet.
I see from the graphics display properties (AMD Geode) that there is such a function, but is grayed out. I've signed up with AMD as an embedded developer to get the latest graphics drivers. Wonder if it will help.
Ideas?
-
I'll tell ya ... this is one hell of a gadget!
Left it in suspend mode after fully recharging it ... it dropped only 10% batt after five hours of suspend ... *grin*
Will have to try 12 hours suspend to see if it survive.
The keyboard on the unit I got turn out to be softer than the demo unit. woo hoo ...
btw, besides getting Portrait Pivot Pro to rotate the screen display, does anyone know how to activate the screen rotation? I'm referring to rotating the visual display to show portrait and landscape mode and not transforming the unit from clamshell to tablet.
I see from the graphics display properties (AMD Geode) that there is such a function, but is grayed out. I've signed up with AMD as an embedded developer to get the latest graphics drivers. Wonder if it will help.
Ideas?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162450\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Glad you like it....I hardly ever turn mine off, I just always have it on standby.
cycle_55
-
I used to run linux in standby on teh thing till i had the drive resume problems, but do you guys get a ranbow effect show up on the screen for about 2 or 3 seconds on resume?
just wondering if the resume behavior between linux and windows is the same
btw suspend to disk works great still, its only suspend to ram. and unfortunattly i never got suspend to disk and ram working at the same time so taht if the battery does run out you can suspend from the drive
-
I can see where it would use battery on standby, but not on hibernate, although mine seems like it might be doing that.
I'm running the original Windows XP on it.
I haven't had time to try Linux on it yet.
Also try this...
- Set the screen brightness at a setting lower than full brightness.
- Turn the unit off.
- Remove and replace the battery.
- Turn the unit back on.
What is the brightness setting now?
On mine, it always goes to full brightness.
This tells me the battery is used to maintain the brightness setting when turned off.
I wonder what else drains the battery that we're not aware of.
-
Left it in suspend mode after fully recharging it ... it dropped only 10% batt after five hours of suspend ... *grin*
Will have to try 12 hours suspend to see if it survive.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162450\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It should ... mine's gone 48 hours on suspend (though that was before I upgraded the RAM to 1 GB). The only time my SA1 gets turned off is disassembly and air travel
-
I'll tell ya ... this is one hell of a gadget!
Left it in suspend mode after fully recharging it ... it dropped only 10% batt after five hours of suspend ... *grin*
Will have to try 12 hours suspend to see if it survive.
The keyboard on the unit I got turn out to be softer than the demo unit. woo hoo ...
btw, besides getting Portrait Pivot Pro to rotate the screen display, does anyone know how to activate the screen rotation? I'm referring to rotating the visual display to show portrait and landscape mode and not transforming the unit from clamshell to tablet.
I see from the graphics display properties (AMD Geode) that there is such a function, but is grayed out. I've signed up with AMD as an embedded developer to get the latest graphics drivers. Wonder if it will help.
Ideas?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162450\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Glad you like it....I hardly ever turn mine off, I just always have it on standby.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well ... I left it for a further 12 hours of suspend and it has 56% of batt ...
This is excellent news!
-
I used to run linux in standby on teh thing till i had the drive resume problems, but do you guys get a ranbow effect show up on the screen for about 2 or 3 seconds on resume?
just wondering if the resume behavior between linux and windows is the same
btw suspend to disk works great still, its only suspend to ram. and unfortunattly i never got suspend to disk and ram working at the same time so taht if the battery does run out you can suspend from the drive
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162456\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Which distro did u use? I might try ubuntu on it sometime ...
-
If it does hibernation correctly, it should be as good as a shutdown, except that it stores an image of the system and sets a flag so that the startup sequence loads up the resume image to memory and move off from where it stopped instead of a fresh boot.
So everything should be turned off ... although some settings like "wakeup on lan" etc may and should drain power ...
I can see where it would use battery on standby, but not on hibernate, although mine seems like it might be doing that.
I'm running the original Windows XP on it.
I haven't had time to try Linux on it yet.
Also try this...
- Set the screen brightness at a setting lower than full brightness.
- Turn the unit off.
- Remove and replace the battery.
- Turn the unit back on.
What is the brightness setting now?
On mine, it always goes to full brightness.
This tells me the battery is used to maintain the brightness setting when turned off.
I wonder what else drains the battery that we're not aware of.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162468\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
-
Left it in suspend mode after fully recharging it ... it dropped only 10% batt after five hours of suspend ... *grin*
Will have to try 12 hours suspend to see if it survive.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162450\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It should ... mine's gone 48 hours on suspend (though that was before I upgraded the RAM to 1 GB). The only time my SA1 gets turned off is disassembly and air travel
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162473\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Fabulous! ... that is excellent news!
Just wondering out loud ...
1. Is it just my machine or setting, but is it that you can only have either the LCD or external monitor activated and not both together?
2. Any way to activate screen rotation without Portrait Pivot Pro?
3. Dial keys. Any way to install it to trial before buying them ... if it's possible at all?
-
i can see why the battery would drop on hibernate, most lose power over time.
the distro i am using is debian, give ubuntu a go if you want but i dont mind getting my hands a bit dirty (in fact i had ho to get suspend working, onec you know how its a one liner)
-
An interesting new entry coming up :
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/breaking/oqo-ch...ller-265892.php (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/breaking/oqo-chipmaker-via-launches-nanobook-the-cute-lil-600-pda-killer-265892.php)
Very similar to the SA1 with some significant pluses :
- more powerful (VIA C7 1.2 Ghz) with similar autonomy (4.5 hrs)
- touch screen
- native Linux support
- price (600$ target)
- and above all, mainstream availability : distributed in Europe (by Packard Bell) and in the US. No more gray market and imports :-)
We'll see if and when this come true...
-
Interesting newcomer indeed. I love the options that are starting to appear on the market. In another few months I'm going to have a hard time choosing which platform will replace my C1000.
-
Yup. I'm all the happier to have my little SA1 (which I'm posting this on, connected through cell phone), to tide me over till next year :-)
-
Now that we are really spoilt for choices, does anyone know where a docking station can be found for the Kohjinsha?
-
Nice review of Kohjinsha II here!
http://www.blogger.com/feeds/8733547468848...3/posts/default (http://www.blogger.com/feeds/8733547468848921783/posts/default)
-
for those not subscirbed to the kohjinsha mailing list here is some info i have come across, i may have also discovered a thing or two on the mobo anyway
Im currently running power tests on the device and very nicly asking the
battery for its power disipation (turns out acpi can be handy)
anyway attached are the power consumption figures including with the
wifi board removed (there is enough room for just about any usb wifi
card you can think of in there, im removing it and putting a Linux
friendly one in there)
Backlight Tests, Idle:
Backlight Min 480mW
Backlight 2 493mW
Backlight 3 509mW
Backlight 4 532mW
Backlight 5 561mW
Backlight 6 570mW
Backlight 7 586mW
Backlight Max 596mW
Full Load Tests:
* ls -laR / (hitting the drive)
Backlight Min 636mW
Backlight Min 766mW
* ls -laR /proc
Backlight Min 609mW
Idle Backlight Min:
Wifi On 482mW
Wifi Off 480mW
Wifi Removed 445mW
Bluetooth Off 440mW
Bluetooth On 460mW
Bluetooth Scanning 467mW
as you can see it appears the wifi card is in low power mode at all
times (i assumed as much, Linux noticed that its always present
regardless of the on/off state) but what is nice about it is the power
savings gained by removing it.
looking at a typical battery (and i assume thats what i have) we have a
capacity of 2530mWH, for an idle load with low backlight thats 5.27H (5
hours 16 Minutes). a 10mW saving represents 6 minutes battery life
approx. so by dropping the wifi module i have gained 24minutes battery life
thats fine for the moment as i am using Linux and at teh moment the wifi
card dosent work for me. this will soon change and i will have to redo
the tests, however its interesting to look at teh running time for the
backlight
Max: 5.27H
Min: 4.24H
so for an idle load i lose about an hour for maxing the backlight, under
load however things get worse
Max: 3.3h (766mW + 100mW (backlight, based of idle load))
Min: 2.9h (766mW + 100mW (backlight, based of idle load))
so a Hitting the drive while pegged at 100% with the backlight maxed out
vs low backlight, sitting idle not wirting to disk gives you an extra 2.37H
it seems that having bluetooth on reduces running time by about 12
Minutes, i have offset this with the wifi so i might just leave it on
all the time and set it up to connect using bluetooth to my phone for 3G
net access
don't worry this is drawing to a close
My next test will be posted in the next few days, it consists of several
parts.
* The effects of replacing the Hard drive with a CF card, both under
idle and full load (sustained read and write)
* The new tickless kernel
* If possible shutting down the external monitor out. after seeing a
talk on x.org and randr i have found out that some motherboards waste
alot of power on those sockets when its not even plugged in
* New handhelds.org power related stuff for shutting down the sound
CODEC when not in use
* Power usage when ethernet is disabled
have fun with those numbers, the only one i cant do is wifi related
power usage when wifi is active (and optionally transferring data)
because i have not set up the driver
-
So are you saying you're dumping Kohjinsha and falling back on Zaurus?
-
So are you saying you're dumping Kohjinsha and falling back on Zaurus?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162838\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I never gave up the Zaurus, I still have my C1000 and use it all the time.
-
Im currently running power tests on the device and very nicly asking the
battery for its power disipation (turns out acpi can be handy)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
very interesting. I will have to try some similar power saving techniques on my Sony TX2; interestingly, the physical switch DOES appear to disconnect the bluetooth adaptor.
BTW, I found that putting a bluetooth version 2 adaptor onto my linux firewall gave me MUCH faster internet browsing speed from my laptop than when using the older bt v1 adaptor... up from 256 kbps to 700+ kbps, and of course much lower power than wifi.
on the Z, using bluetooth to surf the net seemed only barely slower because the bottleneck is the Z's ability to render pages; that said, Angstrom and Minimo is quite snappy over wifi and I haven't got bluetooth working to compare it with
-
Surprised to hear your choice.
Not doubting you, but just wondering if you were referring to the screen in native 800x480 or 800x600 or the 1024x600 mode?
800x480 is crystal clear and definitely has larger fonts than c1000.
Granted I got the touch-screen version ...
*** I'm Selling My Kohjinsha ***
After much soul-searching I've decided to sell my Kohjinsha.
It's the black 40GB model and it's in mint condition.
It does NOT have a touch-screen.
I purchased it from Conics in March, so there's lots of warranty left on it.
I checked with Brett and he said the warranty would be transferrable to a new owner.
This is the email reply I received from Brett:
Hi Doug,
sure, no problem.
the warranty is on the hardware, not the owner.
(as long as the new owner mentions you if requesting warranty service)
regards,
-Brett
Doug wrote:
> Hi Brett,
>
> I bought a Kohjinsha computer from you in March of this year.
> Now I think I am going to sell it.
> I would like to know it the warranty would be transferrable to a new
owner.
>
> Regards,
> Doug
I have everything that came with it:
- AC Power supply for the USA.
- Battery
- The original box
- All the original books
- DVD with restoration archive and drivers
- Protective cover
- Warranty papers
Reasons for selling:
- The screen is really awesome, but the small fonts are hard for me to see.
- I hate the keyboard layout and feel.
- It's nowhere near as convenient to carry around as my Zaurus
I'm asking $750.00 which includes fully insured shipping by UPS to anywhere in the USA.
The only method of payment I am able to take is cashiers check or money order from a US bank or post office.
Doug
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
-
yeah the real killer is bluetooth 1.0 speed, my phone only has 1.0 and when i use it as a modem for teh kohjinsha i dont get the full speed (usb requires a kernel module from outside mainline)
what did you mean about the physical switch disconnecting bluetooth? i assume you ment that the button combo turns off the bluetooth modiule so it dosent draw power.
the one i am intrested in is if under windows the buttons turn off the wifi module and put it into low power mode, if it does then it may just be a firmware issue under linux preventing it from tuning off compleattly
-
Surprised to hear your choice.
Not doubting you, but just wondering if you were referring to the screen in native 800x480 or 800x600 or the 1024x600 mode?
800x480 is crystal clear and definitely has larger fonts than c1000.
Granted I got the touch-screen version ...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Actually, I'm talking about the 800x480 mode.
True, the screen is awesome, but the fonts are so fine I have a hard time with it.
Of course, I'm no spring chicken any more either
On the Zaurus, the fonts seem a bit bolder, which makes it easier for me to read.
I think if I liked the keyboard better, I might try changing the fonts to compensate, but the keyboard really sucks as far as I'm concerned and I don't feel like doing brain surgery on it to (maybe) make it better.
-
actually i have been thinking about giving matchbox a try on the thing as its not the fastest piece of hardware in the world. that and the fonts are a bit bigger (i hate tiny clocks)
-
Well, after a couple days, I decided to try and experiment with the keyboard a little bit.
I gathered up all Kopsis' info on remapping the keys, and got up the courage to try and remove a couple of the keycaps.
I was successful at removing two of them without removing the keyboard by just prying up on them with my fingernails.
After the first two I think I might be able to change them successfully.
I'm not sure if I'm going for the hairbrush trick or not though.
I have a keyboard coming that I ordered on ebay.
I'm also going to play around with the fonts and see what I come up with there.
Doug
-
after reading up a bit on teh keycap problem i noticed that some people say that even after the mod the keys are not perfect
so bieng an egineer i look into it a bit futher,
the problem i see with teh hairbrush idea is that if you push it off center thenthe hair brush bristle also gets of center, the way to avoid this is to attach the hair brush bristle to the rubber itself so its always in the center and glue it there
then sharpen the top to a point that fits in the "cup" (at first i would have said a ball for the top but i relise just how hard that would be)
put button back in with point in cup and the force applied should now "in thery" be more along the verticle giving better button pushes
dont know if anyone thinks the effort is worth doing it but you can cheat by using pins rather than hair brisles if you have side cutters and a file, just make sure you take the point off or your fingers may be bleeding in a couple of months
anyway thats how i will be doing it, lets just say there was way too much caffine involved in teh creation of tihs idea
-
after reading up a bit on teh keycap problem i noticed that some people say that even after the mod the keys are not perfect
so bieng an egineer i look into it a bit futher,
the problem i see with teh hairbrush idea is that if you push it off center thenthe hair brush bristle also gets of center, the way to avoid this is to attach the hair brush bristle to the rubber itself so its always in the center and glue it there
then sharpen the top to a point that fits in the "cup" (at first i would have said a ball for the top but i relise just how hard that would be)
put button back in with point in cup and the force applied should now "in thery" be more along the verticle giving better button pushes
dont know if anyone thinks the effort is worth doing it but you can cheat by using pins rather than hair brisles if you have side cutters and a file, just make sure you take the point off or your fingers may be bleeding in a couple of months
anyway thats how i will be doing it, lets just say there was way too much caffine involved in teh creation of tihs idea
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think I'll just change the keycaps to start with, and maybe sometime at a later point, I'll mess around with a touchy/feely trick.
-
after reading up a bit on teh keycap problem i noticed that some people say that even after the mod the keys are not perfect
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
True, but the improvement is pretty dramatic. As one of my mentors used to say: "anyone can strive for perfection, but only the best engineers know how to stop at good enough."
Your idea sounds like it will work, but it's going to be a lot of extra work for that last fraction of a percent. Given that the hairbrush mod is totally reversable (as long as you don't glue the bristles in), you may want to try it first on a few keys and see what you think.
-
Kopsis,
I just did a system backup, then installed your keyboard remapping files and edited the registry to check it out.
The keys are all perfect, except for the following:
The Alt and Windows keys are still working in their original position, as opposed to their being shown reversed in your final result photo.
Also, it appears the new F9 and F10 keys are cosmetic only, as they retained their original key mapping.
This is not a problem, I just thought I would mention it.
Thanks for the tutorial,
Doug
-
The keys are all perfect, except for the following:
The Alt and Windows keys are still working in their original position, as opposed to their being shown reversed in your final result photo.
Oops ... should have mentioned that in the article. They were not meant to be moved from their original positions. I accidentally swapped them when reassembling and didn't realize it until after I had taken the photos
Also, it appears the new F9 and F10 keys are cosmetic only, as they retained their original key mapping.
Yeah, I may map F9 and F10 (or maybe something else) to them eventually, so I stuck them on the KB "for future use".
-
thought about my mod a bit more and using the non pointy end should mean you dont have to glue it, glue would help but its my experince that glue + silicon is asking for trouble
basically you have the head on teh silicon and the smaller end (sharpended a bit) in the keycap
cant wait to try it,i would compare it to the hair brush butthe keyboards i bought off ebay dont seem to have any problems at all
-
Oops ... should have mentioned that in the article. They were not meant to be moved from their original positions. I accidentally swapped them when reassembling and didn't realize it until after I had taken the photos
<snip>
Yeah, I may map F9 and F10 (or maybe something else) to them eventually, so I stuck them on the KB "for future use".
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162970\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Whew ... that's a relief, I thought I had done something wrong.
I might have to get that Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator and mess around with it.
I'm also going to have to try and figure out those registry entries for remapping keys.
Regards,
Doug
-
Do try the free Key Tweak utility, much easier than either !
I remapped most of the japanese keys on my SA1 to useful ones, with a couple to spare...
-
Do try the free Key Tweak utility, much easier than either !
I remapped most of the japanese keys on my SA1 to useful ones, with a couple to spare...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162999\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Will it also change existing Japenese keys, such as:
" + *
2 ; :
--to-- the English versions
@ : *
2 ; 8... etc ...
Or will it just remap a complete key as it is in it's current state?
-
As I understand it, Key Tweak deals with scan codes, ie it remaps an entire key to another. Individual values for the scan code can then be adjusted with MSKLC or a similar utility.
-
I saw the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator, but I don't want to install the .NET Framework.
-
KeyTweak is is a "user interface" for modifying the "Keyboard Layout\Scancode Map" registry key. I had some problems with it mapping some of the "extended" keys, but once I understood what it's doing (and knew the scancodes for the various keys), it was pretty easy to modify the registry by hand to accomplish what I wanted.
KeyTweak lets you substitute one scancode for another but it won't let you change how a scancode is interpreted. For that you need Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (MKLC). Yeah, the .NET requirement is annoying ... that's why I keep a "throw-away" Win2K VMWare virtual machine on one of my Linux boxes. Take a snapshot, install a bunch of bloated stuff, use it, when I don't need it any more I roll back to the snapshot
-
KeyTweak is is a "user interface" for modifying the "Keyboard Layout\Scancode Map" registry key. I had some problems with it mapping some of the "extended" keys, but once I understood what it's doing (and knew the scancodes for the various keys), it was pretty easy to modify the registry by hand to accomplish what I wanted.
KeyTweak lets you substitute one scancode for another but it won't let you change how a scancode is interpreted. For that you need Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator (MKLC). Yeah, the .NET requirement is annoying ... that's why I keep a "throw-away" Win2K VMWare virtual machine on one of my Linux boxes. Take a snapshot, install a bunch of bloated stuff, use it, when I don't need it any more I roll back to the snapshot
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163015\")
I have an evaluation copy of [a href=\"http://powershadowsecurity.com/default.aspx]PowerShadow[/url].
Thanks for the idea.
-
It appears new Kohjinshas are coming out:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/kohjins...100-and-dmb-tv/ (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/kohjinshas-k600-gets-an-intel-a100-and-dmb-tv/)
-
It appears new Kohjinshas are coming out:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/kohjins...100-and-dmb-tv/ (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/kohjinshas-k600-gets-an-intel-a100-and-dmb-tv/)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yeah ... saw that and was like thinking ...
1) That's a forward thinking company who trumps themselves with a quick turn-around-time for new designs,
2) Why did I have to get the 1st gen ... the curve edges look kinda groovy (may be a bit too applish to some) though the 1st gen has some character in them,
3) That is one funky antennae there ... will it snap out,
4) I'm still glad I got the 1st gen and I'm pretty happy with it, though handwriting support could be better.
So, I promise to myself, I will use this 1st gen Kohjinsha Origami (I still like Origami over UMPC) until at least 2 ~ 3 years later.
Also, I may need to find a new owner for some of the other gadgets soon, since it is working out real nice.
If someone can answer the ubuntu or pdaXrom on Kohjinsha question on the other thread, it would be great!
-
the new K looks really nice, and so does the via nano reference design mentioned in the article. I'd be interested in one of these if they ran linux --and i mean fully, not mostly, or in progress. If it doesn't support linux (and it is a computer of some sort)i won't pay for it, however cool it might be.
The Asus eepc (also mentioned) seems more like what I'm looking for, or an OLPC
-
I'm not sure I like the rounded shapes, looks more like a toy, and seems much thicker from the pictures too. I have no need for the TV and the stupid antenna either... but maybe the keyboard has improved ? :-)
-
Way too much waisted space around screen - also probably as a result of that resolution is only 1042x600.
But I still like the fact they are coming out with version 2 so soon.
-
Well, the keyboard arrived today for my Kohjinsha.
The only problem is, the seller sent a substitute make/model, and the keys are made differently.
Now I have to deal with an ebay seller selling merchandise from Hong Kong.
Probably $20.54 down the drain.
Just my !@#$% luck!!!!
-
Well, the keyboard arrived today for my Kohjinsha.
The only problem is, the seller sent a substitute make/model, and the keys are made differently.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Ouch! I hope that wasn't the same seller I recommended in my article. If it was, let me know so I can add a warning.
-
Well, the keyboard arrived today for my Kohjinsha.
The only problem is, the seller sent a substitute make/model, and the keys are made differently.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163352\")
Ouch! I hope that wasn't the same seller I recommended in my article. If it was, let me know so I can add a warning.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
It doesn't look like it.
[a href=\"http://cgi.ebay.com/77-Keys-Pad-Usb-Multimedia-Keyboard-Laptop-Notebook-2-0_W0QQitemZ250024972336QQcmdZViewItem]This[/url] is the ebay page I ordered it from.
If you scroll down the page, you'll see the item number KB-8571.
The item I received has the same looking keys until I pulled one of them off and the underside of the keycap was made totally different.
The keyboard I received is a Cross Mark model 59373003888 according to a white label stuck on the outside of the blister pack. On the card inside the blister pack is the number 2366 with no mfgr name.
That item sale was ended right after I placed my order with a quantity of 85 still available, and the pictures have been removed from the page.
I'll see what this guy will do for me, and then take it from there.
-
I have had correspondence with the seller of the keyboard.
He wants me to provide pictures of what I received so he can help me.
At the moment it's looking positive.
With 17217 ebay ratings since Dec-30-03 and 99.5% positive feedback, I think he will do what he can to take care of me.
It's not my intention to give the seller negative feedback just because I was upset at the time.
I'll let it play out and see how it turns out.
I'll keep you posted.
-
Here's the scoop regarding my keyboard:
The seller only has the type he sent me.
He said he will refund my money if I return it to him at my expense.
It would cost over half what I paid for it to send it back to China.
All I can say at this point is this:
Buyers beware ... the item you see may not be the item you receive.
Be prepared to expect a substitute.
Ask questions first, and buy later.
This (http://cgi.ebay.com/77-Keys-Pad-Usb-PC-Keyboard-Laptop-Notebook-2-0-Desktop_W0QQitemZ250129244405QQihZ015QQcategoryZ33965QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) is the keyboard I actually received.
Doug
-
in UK/Europe that would be illegal to supply the wrong goods and then to not pay the return fee - under the "distance selling directive".
unfortunately when the seller is not in the UK you've very little recourse. Your only chance is to force a full refund from paypal, but I believe they will not recover delivery charges (I had this one when I bought something listed as new and it wasn't, had to pay GBP10 to have it professionally assessed to prove it was used, and ended up only being refunded the cost of the item by paypal, worse, the seller didn't have sufficient funds anyway to cover the refund).
so, basically, on ebay, if the seller is unreliable you're screwed.
-
He said he will refund my money if I return it to him at my expense.
It would cost over half what I paid for it to send it back to China.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163533\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
That's really unfortunate. Who would have thought there are actually multiple OEMs making keyboards in this form factor?!
But I have to say that I am curious about the "feel" and accuracy of this different model. Have you tried it out using the USB port? How does it compare to the SA1's keyboard? It looks like it's about the same size so an entire keyboard transplant may be theoretically possible.
-
Here's the scoop regarding my keyboard:
The seller only has the type he sent me.
He said he will refund my money if I return it to him at my expense.
It would cost over half what I paid for it to send it back to China.
All I can say at this point is this:
Buyers beware ... the item you see may not be the item you receive.
Be prepared to expect a substitute.
Ask questions first, and buy later.
if you paid using paypal then you can fill one of their forms asking for the refund of the money you paid because you received a different product than the one you paid for. Even if the seller signed off ebay, this will work (it worked for me once, two weeks ago, same problem). Give it a try, and good luck.
-
I had a no-show for something from ebay, via paypal as well. A few emails and days later, paypal refunded me in full.
Delivery charges when the item was sent, are usually non-refundable, though some sellers will absorb the return shipment for problematic goods.
-
btw, is it just me, or is there a wave of zaurus sellers? I sense that this is in anticipation of or a response to the whole series of kohjinsha and sub-lite notebook that is going for cheap.
One thing I do on my zaurus akita that I don't do on my kohjinsha is to write my diary or journal before I sleep at night; sure the korigami is very small and light for a tabletpc or notebook, but still a bundle to hold and prop up while typing in bed. With my Z, I can thumb away laying in bed and it's quite ok.
How are you guys using your Kohjinsha?
-
btw, is it just me, or is there a wave of zaurus sellers? I sense that this is in
there are quite a few C1000s being sold in the UK too; I am wondering if people are upgrading to 3200s in the anticipation of them disappearing.
-
How are you guys using your Kohjinsha?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163574\")
My real Zaurus replacement is my [a href=\"http://europe.nokia.com/A4142101]Nokia E61[/url]. I've found there is a lot of value in having a pocketable device with a full keyboard and good app support (i.e. a decent OS). The Z sort of filled that role, but the lack of built in voice and data connectivity (WiFi needs a fragile card sticking out the side and I still had to carry a phone for voice) eventually got too annoying for me.
My Kohjinsha picks up nicely where the E61 starts hitting its limits. Web browsing, music/movies, software development, and working with documents. Some of these (music/movies) I used to do on the Z, but for the others I had to either carry a big bag of Z accessories (portable keyboard and such) or a full laptop.
So the Kohjinsha has allowed me to go from phone+Zaurus+laptop to smartphone+Kohjinsha. So far I'm pretty happy with how this new arrangement is working out
-
How are you guys using your Kohjinsha?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
[/quote]
I am using mine mostly like you do, I use my Z to write articles and take notes during the day as things pop into my head. The K is used for everything else and I still have a small office where I have a desktop which does all the intensive stuff I do such as downloading. I am still looking for an appropriate phone.
cycle_55
-
I am curious about the "feel" and accuracy of this different model. Have you tried it out using the USB port? How does it compare to the SA1's keyboard? It looks like it's about the same size so an entire keyboard transplant may be theoretically possible.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163537\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The feel and accuracy are somewhat better than the SA1 ... it doesn't seem to miss keystrokes, however there is still a little play in the keys (nothing serious).
The opening for the keyboard on the Kohjinsha is about 1/32" more in both length and width than on the USB keyboard.
As far as a "transplant", I havent a clue, but I think it would be a big improvement if it could be done.
It does work very nicely as a USB keyboard on the K ... using the English(United States) language option, all the keys work as displayed on the keyboard.
All in all, it's a nice working little keyboard and I've decided I'm going to keep it.
For $20 it's not worth the hassle of going around with the seller about it.
-
Official info for the new Kohjinsha:
http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sh/sh6wb04a/index.html (http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sh/sh6wb04a/index.html)
-
So is it correct to say that for tabletPCs or Kohjinshas running MS Vista, it would be considered tablet enabled? ie, there is no Vista TabletPC edition right? Vista has handwriting natively built in right?
-
So is it correct to say that for tabletPCs or Kohjinshas running MS Vista, it would be considered tablet enabled? ie, there is no Vista TabletPC edition right? Vista has handwriting natively built in right?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think all Vista editions EXCEPT for Vista Home Basic have the tablet PC functionality built-in.....
HTH...
-
So is it correct to say that for tabletPCs or Kohjinshas running MS Vista, it would be considered tablet enabled? ie, there is no Vista TabletPC edition right? Vista has handwriting natively built in right?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I think all Vista editions EXCEPT for Vista Home Basic have the tablet PC functionality built-in.....
HTH...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
*ouch* ... MS is beginning to get on me with all their 'flavors' of Vista ... becoming a joke!
-
How are you guys using your Kohjinsha?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163574\")
My real Zaurus replacement is my [a href=\"http://europe.nokia.com/A4142101]Nokia E61[/url]. I've found there is a lot of value in having a pocketable device with a full keyboard and good app support (i.e. a decent OS). The Z sort of filled that role, but the lack of built in voice and data connectivity (WiFi needs a fragile card sticking out the side and I still had to carry a phone for voice) eventually got too annoying for me.
My Kohjinsha picks up nicely where the E61 starts hitting its limits. Web browsing, music/movies, software development, and working with documents. Some of these (music/movies) I used to do on the Z, but for the others I had to either carry a big bag of Z accessories (portable keyboard and such) or a full laptop.
So the Kohjinsha has allowed me to go from phone+Zaurus+laptop to smartphone+Kohjinsha. So far I'm pretty happy with how this new arrangement is working out
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Aye ... That's true for me as well ... although the Kohjinsha is bigger and heavier, it has more things built in, and so I end up with lesser things to bring but still have equal if not more functionality than carrying the Z with the accessories.
-
I am using mine mostly like you do, I use my Z to write articles and take notes during the day as things pop into my head. The K is used for everything else and I still have a small office where I have a desktop which does all the intensive stuff I do such as downloading. I am still looking for an appropriate phone.
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Aye ... the kohjinsha is really beginning to sink into me, or me into it. It is still too heavy to lay down on one's back and read or surf with it, no matter which way I turn, but it is truly meeting most if not all my other needs.
-
Can someone write up a quick table of these new handhelds emerging including a possible street price? It would be amazingly helpful! Especially with new ones like the Asus Eee, Kohjinsha, Via's UMPC. It get's very confusing also to know what's currently available and release dates. So much info!
Hope that the request isn't an annoying one.
-
Can someone write up a quick table of these new handhelds emerging including a possible street price? It would be amazingly helpful! Especially with new ones like the Asus Eee, Kohjinsha, Via's UMPC. It get's very confusing also to know what's currently available and release dates. So much info!
Hope that the request isn't an annoying one.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163951\")
No worries, it's not much of a hassle ... especially when these info is easily found in some of the umpc sites.
In any case, AFAIK, only Kohjinsha is out in the market, on the shelf, below the bed, in the toilet, ... you get the idea?
Kohjinsha - ~ US$680 to US$780 depending on model. Available in Singapore, US (via parallel importers like conics, dynamism etc)
Asus Eee -
Via's UMPC -
ok, here's a better idea ... ... Prices are on individual pages...
[a href=\"http://www.umpcportal.com/products/]http://www.umpcportal.com/products/[/url]
-
Thanks Snappy! Never knew about umpcportal!
The Kohjinsha sounds cool, but may be considered pricey depending how the Asus Eee does when it arrives.
I liked the looks of the Pepper Pad on there. It looks like a gaming PocketPC.
-
thought people might be interested in a video review of the nanobook aka packard bell XS; this looks like a real rival to the Asus eee - depending on price, cheaper by far than the Fuj U8420/U1010 but less sexy!
http://www.ultramobilelife.com/index.php?o...ask=view&id=340 (http://www.ultramobilelife.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=340)
-
Konjinsha SH8 announced.
http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/art...php?storyid=856 (http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=856)
-
Konjinsha SH8 announced.
http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/art...php?storyid=856 (http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=856)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167003\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
looks very nice, and not massively expensive; it'd be nice if the TV tuner module could be swapped for a DVB-T module so it'd work here in the UK!
I note that the vye website pdf on it has an image stolen from Akihabaranews - see the green space pig in the background?
-
btw, is it just me, or is there a wave of zaurus sellers? I sense that this is in anticipation of or a response to the whole series of kohjinsha and sub-lite notebook that is going for cheap.
One thing I do on my zaurus akita that I don't do on my kohjinsha is to write my diary or journal before I sleep at night; sure the korigami is very small and light for a tabletpc or notebook, but still a bundle to hold and prop up while typing in bed. With my Z, I can thumb away laying in bed and it's quite ok.
How are you guys using your Kohjinsha?
I invested in a Kohjinsha SH6 just before the announcement of the SH8 but have been extremely impressed. Couldnt wait to get rid of the Vista, and now running Fedora 7 which was an easy install even to get the integral wireless working with the rt73 serialmonkey driver, and touchscreen with the PenMount 6000 Driver.
Still use Zaurus with PdaxII13 but use Notecase on both Zaurus and the Kohjinsha for capturing meeting notes. The Kohjinsha has effectively replaced my work laptop as far easier to lug around for presentations, but the Zaurus remains an invaluable work tool for on the fly notes in confined spaces such as trains etc. It is an excellent combination of mobile tools especially as no Windows needed.
The only gripe is the battery life, should have gone for the high capacity battery. Seriously considering replacing the internal hard disk with a more power friendly option as did not go for the SSD version. Have already had the Kohjinsha completely apart as accidently triggured the BIOS password like a total idiot, and had to remove the battery on the Motherboard to reset the BIOS. Luckily there are a few good articles on the web that give advice on this nerve racking experience. Not sure what the best option would be for the disk replacement at this stage, but getting access to the drive is not that difficult
Mike
-
Couldnt wait to get rid of the Vista
you do know, dontcha, that if you can get a free downgrade to XP pro from Vista business? install XP (need some random installation disk), then ring up MS's activation hotline when it want's to validate, quote the product key for vista you have and they'll give you the activation code.
we just bought some laptops at work with Vista, and I'll be downgrading them before they get used.
-
I'm just curious if the SH8 keyboard would fit and work on my SA1.
It has two shift keys (really needed) and the F1-F12 keys are all straight across the top.
Plus they say the SH8 keyboard is much improved from the original one.
If I thought I could get it to work, I might try and order just the keyboard.
Doug
-
I don't believe they're compatible, unfortunately - else many of us SA1 users would have jumped at the opportunity :-)
I hear the SH6/SH8 keyboard is the same model as the one on the Asus EEE PC though.