OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => 6000 - Tosa => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 05, 2004, 02:40:51 pm
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Seems to me that Sharp is exiting the consumer PDA market in the US:
1. The SL-5600 will be discontinued soon (if not already).
2. The SL-6000 is only being marketed to enterprises, and has an unreasonable price for consumers.
3. Sharp are not offering the SL-C860 or similar models in the US at all.
Seems to be the end of the road for the Zaurus as a consumer PDA in the US.
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2. The SL-6000 is only being marketed to enterprises, and has an unreasonable price for consumers.
Hopefully, if Sharp is really going to refuse to retail the 6000 stateside, some \"enterprising\" enterprise customer will realise that there\'s money to be made selling them out the back door as fast as Sharp ships them in the front.
Maybe it\'s time to form Ethereal, Inc... :wink:
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Can you please provide your source?
This would be a cruel early April Fools joke.
-Lox
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Can you please provide your source?
This would be a cruel early April Fools joke.
-Lox
I have no source. This is just information I have gleaned from reading these forums and putting it all together. I hope I am wrong !
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] I hope I am wrong !
Good. Because you are. I expect to be able to buy the SL-6000W as a consumer from a website such as http://www.macconnection.com (http://www.macconnection.com) within three weeks for $699, based on the prediction of a Sharp employee yesterday. In other words, I believe I will actually pay LESS for it than would a Japanese consumer purchasing today, who would be faced with a bill of about $750.
Now, this isn\'t where Sharp will make its money, I\'m sure. Packaging the 6000 with Websphere Everyplace and selling it to the laptop-hating mobile corporate types in batches of a thousand, there\'s the gravy! But they won\'t \"exit\" the consumer market.
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] I hope I am wrong !
Good. Because you are. I expect to be able to buy the SL-6000W as a consumer from a website such as http://www.macconnection.com (http://www.macconnection.com) within three weeks for $699, based on the prediction of a Sharp employee yesterday.
That is great news I hope that the Sharp employee is right!
Now, this isn\'t where Sharp will make its money, I\'m sure. Packaging the 6000 with Websphere Everyplace and selling it to the laptop-hating mobile corporate types in batches of a thousand, there\'s the gravy!
And I am sure that many of these corporate types would absolutely love the C7xx C8xx form factor. Why is Sharp steadfastly refusing to release them to American & European markets, it doesn\'t make any sense to me.
Regards,
Clive
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] I hope I am wrong !
Good. Because you are.
I disagree. Just because certain online retailers make an enterprise product available to anyone with a credit card, doesn\'t mean that the product is \"in the consumer market\". There will be no marketing or promotion of any Zauruses to consumers (outside of Japan), and support from Sharp will probably be limited. You won\'t be able to buy Zaurus\'s at any consumer electronic shop (although Fry\'s is the only one I know of that used to sell it). You probably won\'t be able to buy it from consumer focused online shops either (like Amazon). ISV commercial software development will probably cease to be.
In short, us hardcore Zaurus fans will still be able to get out hands on it, but it is in no way, shape, or form a \"consumer product.\"
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]] Just because certain online retailers make an enterprise product available to anyone with a credit card, doesn\'t mean that the product is \"in the consumer market\"
Actually, that\'s exactly what it means. http://www.pcconnection.com (http://www.pcconnection.com) is an example of a vendor in the consumer market.
]] support from Sharp will probably be limited.
I see. You\'re confused in that you think poor support == not in consumer market.
]] You won\'t be able to buy Zaurus\'s at any consumer electronic shop
Who cares? See, there is this thing called the Web ... oh, nevermind
]] You probably won\'t be able to buy it from consumer focused online shops either (like Amazon)
Ummm, what? You can already get it from Amazon Japan.
]] ISV commercial software development will probably cease to be.
Well, you don\'t have to develop anything for it, but most Zaurus development goes on without Sharp support already, so ...
]] In short, us hardcore Zaurus fans
You sound so bitter and clueless. Are you sure you\'re a hardcore Zaurus fan? ... Um, oh, wait. Nevermind.
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] I hope I am wrong !
Good. Because you are.
I don\'t think $699 is a competitve price for a Wireless handheld. A typical wireless handheld is more like $399 or $499. Sure, Linux lovers might be happy to spend the extra cash, but thats not the consumer market. The consumer market is all those non technical consumers currently buying palms, ipaqs and sonys. If Sharp has exited that market, then they will become just a niche player. I expect 3rd party support will also wane, especially if linux on any of the 3 aforementioned products becomes more usable.
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You sound so bitter and clueless.
Hello, Pot, you\'re black.
I won\'t bother responding any further because you just don\'t get it.
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]] support from Sharp will probably be limited.
I see. You\'re confused in that you think poor support == not in consumer market.
Actually Sharp\'s support was shockingly poor even when the Z was in the consumer market. If the Sl-6000 is not a consumer item, their support will be gone completely. Look at the fiasco with the www.zaurus.com/dev site for an example of their indifference.
]] You won\'t be able to buy Zaurus\'s at any consumer electronic shop
Who cares? See, there is this thing called the Web ... oh, nevermind
Not everyone likes to shop on the web, a large proportion of people prefer to actually see and touch something before laying out their hard earned cash.
]] You probably won\'t be able to buy it from consumer focused online shops either (like Amazon)
Ummm, what? You can already get it from Amazon Japan.
So what, you can also get the C860 from Amazon Japan. Amazon Japan is not Amazon the rest of the world!
]] In short, us hardcore Zaurus fans
You sound so bitter and clueless. Are you sure you\'re a hardcore Zaurus fan? ... Um, oh, wait. Nevermind.
It is easy to get nasty when posting anonymously, I think that this comment is completely uncalled for.
Clive
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well as the anonymous poster comments himself - nevermind.
Lets all \'nevermind\' that he just makes his silly presumptious and nasty comments just to make no valid points at all.
Actually \"us hardcore Zaurus fans\" do care about all such points that DrWowe pointed out. Just because we are geeks of some kind doesnt mean that I will go buy any Linux thingie from Sharp without having the chance to hold it once and play with it some at a consumer store or some expo gathering or whatever opportunity we get (like touchbasing with another local zaurus user to have a look at his Zaurus-we zaurus users actually do that too - thats what makes the community great).
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Sorry for the anonymous post. I meant to post as zorg, my usual name, but was annoyed by the post I was replying to (and the bitterness toward Sharp I saw in it) and did so too quickly. I also didn\'t review my post for content as long as I usually do, so sorry if I seemed too harsh, although reviewing it now, I don\'t think I was harsh beyond the typical tone of this forum.
As for consumer availability, you can already see the SL-6000 docking station listed at PC Connection, and I assume from my source at Sharp that the SL-6000W will be there by 31 March at $699. That\'s the consumer market, as far as I\'m concerned.
My only reservation now is that someone else said the $699 price was actually for the SL-6000L or N, and that the W won\'t be available at PC Connection at all for a while. It is possible that my source at Sharp meant the SL-6000L or N, but said SL-6000W. Oh, well. If it doesn\'t show up soon, I will probably shell out the $1069 for a Japan-Direct import. It will replace a $1299 notebook, not a $399 or $499 pda. It has the specs of a new and different product, one that could make its own category.
The Web has beaten the physical stores to a pulp. I don\'t visit them very often and, when I do (Fry\'s, Best Buy), I see sales droids who know nothing of value, and only the least common denominator products in inventory, usually nothing I would purchase. The really successful ones (Best Buy) seem to be fleecing rubes with Least Common Denominators. A profitable business, but no more interesting to me than a Vegas Casino.
The physical stores don\'t sell the Hush ATX, the Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite, neither of my cameras, nor a dozen other worthwhile techtoys I get from websites.
I am surprised that anyone on this forum except a PocketPeecee troll would need to play with a Z before purchase. On the other hand, I do prefer to purchase from Web retailers like B&H, who handle returns without question, so I do see the need for a safety valve. It\'s just that I already have one on the Web.
Again, I apologize for the \"anonymous\" posting, although zorg is not the name on my paycheck stub! And I apologize if it seemed too harsh to call you bitter and clueless. Many of your previous posts seem quite clueful (and I appreciate them) but you, and many others on this board, do seem to harbor a bitterness toward Sharp that makes much of what you say *seem* clueless, as if you\'re so used to Sharp blowing it that you won\'t be satisfied unless Sharp blows the 6000. I remain hopeful that Sharp will hit a home run.
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I\'m probably not the only one to have noticed, however PC Connection already show pricing for a not better indentified \"SL6000\":
http://shop.pcconnection.com/web/Shopping/....htm?Platform=B (http://shop.pcconnection.com/web/Shopping/SearchNav.htm?Platform=B)
As Zorg wrote, the price is $699. A little steep for somebody looking for a PDA (although powerful), but definitely much more palatable for anybody in need of a laptop replacement.
Happy drooling...............
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Zorg,
I tend to agree with your take that Sharp\'s latest offering will include the consumer market, and that the measure of that availability is not finding a giant aisle display at WalMart.
However, I would also draw a distinction between availability on the consumer market and visibility on the consumer market. A thousand Zaurus users is a community, but a million Zaurus users would be a consumer base for makers of aftermarket add-ons, from cases to software. (I\'m dying fo a decent, usable drug reference!)
Also, although I (as an anesthesiologist) spend most of my life in scrubs, with no pockets to speak of, I appreciate the large segment of the PDA-buying public for whom a make-or-break issue is: \"Will this fit in my coat pocket?\" That question is a very hands-on one. (I know, pick an online retailer with a good return policy, but I find it hard to fault those who would rather not risk the hassle.)
Although Sharp probably isn\'t going to freeze out the die-hards (who are watching places like this board for the first whispers of US availability), I think it\'s a shame that Sharp can\'t get a little marketing energy behind a truly worthy product that most of the world\'s (non-Japanese) PDA users will never even hear of.
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I think that japanese companies do not think anyone outside their country even cares about high tech toys. I also think its sad American companies do not notice this niche and try to fill it.
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I can understand your hopefullness and eagerness in seeing Sharp succeed - we all do - since we all like the zaurus so much. And hence I can understand your anger at people who believe otherwise - its more of the wishful syndrome maybe, and I am guilty to that too. Thats cause Sharp doesnt seem to share our steadfast belief in the zaurus as much as we do.
As for calling some as pocketpeecee trolls (i an one who backed the idea of actually holding a zaurus and playing with it before makeing a decision), I think you got it wrong.
See I actually held and played with a SL-6000 (at Linux expo) as well as the SL-5500 and 5600 (till now I owned a SL-5000d).
But after getting the chance to actually hold a C7xx in my hands, I decided to go for the C750 instead of the 6000. Of course price was a consideration too, but before this I was actually thinking of buying the 6000. So its not that I have to hold a zaurus to tell the difference between a zaurus and a pocketpc, but rather to tell the difference between the different zaurii. Maybe that makes me a Zaurii troll, say what ? :wink:
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Perhaps my older post was misunderstood. You see, I\'m not at all trying to troll. I own a Z 5600 that I got when the price started falling, and I would happily upgrade to a 6000W if the price was right. I LIKE the Zaurus. But what I CAN\'T STAND is a company that doesn\'t believe in its own products. The FACT is that Sharp is not marketing to consumers AT ALL anymore. (and they weren\'t doing much before either, but now its official) To the extent that the Zaurus sells into the hands of people like you and me, and of course it will to some extent, its because of tech savvy enthusiasts such as the majority of people who visit this website and other PDA forums. People who understand the value of solid technology and engineering, and people who WANT a tiny Linux workstation in their pocket, and are willing to pay more than the devices that ARE in the consumer market. These sales will happen in SPITE of Sharp\'s marketing, not because of it.
Just realize that these people represet a TINY minority of the consumer PDA market. Sure, there are enough of us to account for some sales. Maybe even a few thousand. Now consider that overall PDA sales are 10s of millions each year, of which some sizable fraction are consumer sales, and you can see that the Zaurus is just a splinter on the Pie Chart, if it\'s visible at all. And its doubtful that the marketshare will be growing much without marketing.
With regards to PCConnection, I don\'t consider them a consumer site at all. They\'re a typical internet tech reseller. They provide tech products to knowlegable buyers, much like a distributer. Their customers are made up of tech enthusiasts, IT professionals, etc, with IT professionals being the majority. The average consumer wouldn\'t have a clue what to do with a site like that. And no, nobody reading this site is an average consumer, at least when it comes to tech. And the majority of the people buying Zaurus\'s from PCConnection will be buying them for business purposes. Overall, the Zaurus 6000 may not be a terrible seller. It definately has practical business uses.
All this is to say that I\'m not unhappy they are selling it. Quite the contrary, I look forward to having the opportunity to buy one myself. Just realize that the title of this thread is still true.
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Okay that was annoying. I logged in right before posting that and it still came out guest...
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SL-6000 series has been available in Japan. See the price(before Tax, Japan Yen):
SHARP SL-6000L 4 73,720 ゲットプラス 80,000 Cat Works 80,400
SHARP SL-6000N 4 67,740 ゲットプラス 73,800 Cat Works 74,000
SHARP SL-6000W 3 79,030 ズーコム 84,800 Cat Works 85,300
SHARP SL-C860 21 55,000 ナニワ電機 55,500 ネオカデン 56,980 特価COM
The price is good. Isn\'t it?
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It appears to me that Sharp is content being one of the dominant handheld companies in Japan and serving a niche market worldwide. Sharp is an extremely diverse company and I don\'t think they have plans to be a worldwide handheld leader. In some ways, it seems as though they use the handheld market as a test bed for their small lcd screen technology and have little to no desire to ramp up the marketing machine and take on the Palm and PocketPC market.
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Nathanwms: I agree. Thanks for putting it so concisely. I also have a feeling that it IBMs influence that\'s keeping them in the North American market at all.
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@DrWowe
Exactly, if you have no plans to compete aggressively in the worldwide commercial market the next best thing is establishing yourself in the corporate market. It has worked well for Symbol who makes handhelds primarily to satisfy corporate needs. The corporate market yields a much bigger payback for each advertising/marketing dollar spent and often requires fewer people on the marketing end to support.
The corporate market can provide Sharp with a strong and steady income stream without the expense of trying to \'run with the big dogs\'. On the one hand I can understand why Sharp is marketing the Zaurus as they are; however, as a satisfied Zaurus user and one who believes the Zaurus C-XXX series is the best handheld hardware platform on the market, I would love to see Sharp promote it as such.