OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => Nokia Tablet => Topic started by: B_Lizzard on January 06, 2007, 07:24:04 pm
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Well, it seems that information about the N800 has "leaked" - along with a lot of high-quality (*really* high quality) images. HERE's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/5th_avenue/sets/72157594461870146/) the photo set, with some juicy images, and HERE's (http://www.carrypad.com/product/product.php?id=56) a page with the current spec sheet, along with some links...
It seems that Nokia didn't lay on their laurels on this one. It looks like a real good advancement, in terms of specifications, and should address most issues put up by most of the community. They upped the RAM to 128MB, which amounts to 4-5 times more free memory during operation, they apparently added a CPU with twice the power, plus 2 SD card slots. They also added a webcam A nice little keyboard and it's good to go!
And, apparently, the device is already available at certain CompUSA stores. Quick, run!
ADD: HERE's (http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2007/01/critical-question-answered-yes-n800-is.html) another link with interesting info.
ADD: MORE IMAGES (http://www.carrypad.com/gallery/v/n800jt/) (Careful with the bandwidth, sonny).
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v6 processor rev 2 (v61) with VFP support (320bogomips vs 125bogomips for the Nokia 770)... 128Mb RAM.... 256Mb Flash...
I want one!
Sharp? are you listening?
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THIS (http://blog.tokash.org/) blog contains a lot of valuable information, courtesy of a happy new N800 owner! The guy posted about 70 pictures of the N800 HERE (http://images.tokash.org/main.php?g2_itemId=143). Enjoy
The Chicago CompUSA megastore is confirmed to have some N800's in stock (At least they *did*). If anyone lives in the Chicago area, run!
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v6 processor rev 2 (v61) with VFP support (320bogomips vs 125bogomips for the Nokia 770)... [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
omap 2420
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v6 processor rev 2 (v61) with VFP support (320bogomips vs 125bogomips for the Nokia 770)... [div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=150335\")
omap 2420
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
OMG!
[a href=\"http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11990&contentId=4671]http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbu...&contentId=4671[/url]
2D/3D acceleration!!
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did any notice ir or usb or BT? how would a keyboard be connected?
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It has USB (Albeit only USB slave, which is, I guess, what you meant when you said it has no USB), it has bluetooth 2.0, but no IR. You could use a BT keyboard.
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It does have USB host, although it is not activated by default and the port is unpowered, so an appropriate cable or powered hub is needed. But you can connect an USB keyboard that way, or mount an external drive, etc.
BT is easier, of course, though more expensive.
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It has USB (Albeit only USB slave, which is, I guess, what you meant when you said it has no USB), it has bluetooth 2.0, but no IR. You could use a BT keyboard.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150365\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Honestly I didn't see the mention of either. I kinda skimmed it. thanks
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Awesome! If Pandora runs on this, it'd be truely great, and going on my want list.
TI OMAP's tend to have a USB OTG port as their main port, and it looks like the only one availible on this processor. Only trouble is enabling host mode. On the 770, you had to put 5 Volts into the connector, and enable it software.
With FPU and 3D accel, PSX emulation would be possible at a decent speed, though the controls aren't laid out for it.
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As koen said, the processor is an OMAP 2420. According to the maemo FAQ: "The processor is a 330-MHz, ARM11-based Texas Instruments (TI) OMAP 2420.".
Does anyone know how this compares to the (more common) Xscales?
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As koen said, the processor is an OMAP 2420. According to the maemo FAQ: "The processor is a 330-MHz, ARM11-based Texas Instruments (TI) OMAP 2420.".
Does anyone know how this compares to the (more common) Xscales?
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=150427\")
[a href=\"http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/006812.html]http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developer...ary/006812.html[/url]
*and* the vfp is ~10 times faster as softfloat and ~100-500 times faster as hardfloat
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I'm certainly getting this as a replacement to my (aging) Jornada 690!
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Can someone shed some lights on the comparison with Sony's Mylo?
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Can someone shed some lights on the comparison with Sony's Mylo?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I took a quick look at a mylo whilst in phoenix, it's small and unimpressive physically, so much so that the US$350 seemed a joke!
I think the Nokia could wipe the floor with it if packaged right, especially with GPS support.
The new apple iPhone will really get things buzzing!
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Went to my local CompUSA for a pick-up. Spotted the N800 there for $399 and N770 for $349. Since the store is not in a very populated area, I guess it's a national launch in most of the CompUSA. I'm surprised the older N770 didn't get much discount.
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Went to my local CompUSA for a pick-up. Spotted the N800 there for $399 and N770 for $349. Since the store is not in a very populated area, I guess it's a national launch in most of the CompUSA. I'm surprised the older N770 didn't get much discount.
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I was very disappointed that the N800 came out too late for me to visit a compusa whilst in USA, but maybe just as well otherwise I might have accidentally bought one! The specs are definitely something to drool over.
What Nokia need to do is produce an accessory BT keyboard which can be clipped on, with some sort of stand or hinge for the N800 to turn it into a clamshell. Maybe the PocketPenguin project could morph into a desktop converter/docking station for the N800.
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N800 main page (http://www.nokiausa.com/N800/1,9008,main:1,00.html)
support (http://www.nokiausa.com/support/phones/main/1,2836,N800,00.html)
there's no mention of it on the UK web site, so I wonder how long we'll have to wait for it to be available here.
my brother is in the USA at the moment, I am very sorely tempted to ask him to buy me one... but then I'd have to sell one of my other devices!
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Anyone want to compare that Omap to the Freescale iMX31?
Also has Floating Point/3D/USB2-480/DDR266/AnythingelsebutSDHC. . .
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dont need to compare really, they are both arm11 processors with diffrent peripherals, the iMX.3 has the clock speed edge however and probelly memorey accsess as well (does the nokia use ddr?) more importantly i think that the crossbar switch would see the iMX.3 performe better under load (more responsive, higher thouruput on multiple high IO)
ive always wondereed, is SDHC software or hardware as well?
anyway thanks koen for the stuff about the ar11, do you have a link to numbers at all. it just confirms my decision to go with a chip with vfp
cant wait to see how this handels 3D tasks, couple this with the dual proc stuff and it could make for a very meaty (not in the pda version) computer
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there's no mention of it on the UK web site, so I wonder how long we'll have to wait for it to be available here.
It's available already...
Nokia N800 Direct Webpage (http://direct.nokia.com/Product.aspx?model=n800&u=/Product.aspx?model=n800) although I agree there's no mention of it on the UK website.
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there's no mention of it on the UK web site, so I wonder how long we'll have to wait for it to be available here.
It's available already...
Nokia N800 Direct Webpage (http://direct.nokia.com/Product.aspx?model=n800&u=/Product.aspx?model=n800) although I agree there's no mention of it on the UK website.
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odd, it asks for my country, if I select USA it tells me the price, so I clicked back and tried different european countries and none, not even scandinavian countries which is Nokia's origin.
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ive always wondereed, is SDHC software or hardware as well?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150677\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
According to sandisk it's software.
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odd, it asks for my country, if I select USA it tells me the price, so I clicked back and tried different european countries and none, not even scandinavian countries which is Nokia's origin.
Strange - it goes straight to the UK N800 Buy page for me (£269), although it's possible I've told Nokia I'm in the UK on previous accesses of their website.
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odd, it asks for my country, if I select USA it tells me the price, so I clicked back and tried different european countries and none, not even scandinavian countries which is Nokia's origin.
Strange - it goes straight to the UK N800 Buy page for me (£269), although it's possible I've told Nokia I'm in the UK on previous accesses of their website.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150805\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
ah, it's a weird cookie + javscript problem.. deleted my cookies.. when I went to the page, it asked me to select country, I chose UK, and it then said nothing found. clicked back, reloaded and the UK page appeared - GBP269, which is quite a mark up compared to US$400.
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anyway thanks koen for the stuff about the ar11, do you have a link to numbers at all. it just confirms my decision to go with a chip with vfp
If anyone reading this has one, take a look here and post some output please:
http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ (http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/) (use the *.vfp.out binaries for the N800, *.softvfp.out for the N700).
This can be compared with existing data for the Zaurus here: https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...51&hl=benchmark (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3451&hl=benchmark)
I'll have to recompile the Zaurus benchmarks so people can compare on newer hardware (or look in the compiling_things.txt file in the above directory for links to the code and compiling instructions).
Si
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lardman, what is the point in benchmarking nonoptimized code (you don't have any of -O options specified (-Os, -O2 or -O3) in compiling_things.txt)?
By the way, some tests benchmarking video decoding performance (also for N800) have been done in this thread (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22280) (lower time is better). But compilation options were not quite the same, Nokia 770 and N800 mplayer binaries were compiled with -O4 option (it is default in upstream mplayer configure/makefile), and zaurus tests were compiled with -Os.
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Gah. The Nokia online shop doesn't even *list* Canada! AARGH
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lardman, what is the point in benchmarking nonoptimized code (you don't have any of -O options specified (-Os, -O2 or -O3) in compiling_things.txt)?
I simply wanted a comparison between the two Nokias, it shouldn't make any difference whether the code is optimised or not, as theonly difference between the compilations was the soft or hard float option.
I agree that if we were comparing with the Zaurus or some other platform with a different compiler (so it can't run the same code) then it would make a difference.
With that said, I'll produce the optimised benchmarks too.
For the record, these are the results from my Nokia 770 (unoptimised code):
Nokia770-39:/home/user# ./whetstone.softvfp.out
Loops: 1000, Iterations: 1, Duration: 13 sec.
C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 7.7 MIPS
Nokia770-39:/home/user# ./dhry.softvfp.out
Microseconds for one run through Dhrystone: 6.4
Dhrystones per Second: 156250.0
Si
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Gah. The Nokia online shop doesn't even *list* Canada! AARGH
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Tigerdirect carries the N800 but does not advertise it on the canadian site. I had to call in to confirm.
J.
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http://mobilecrunch.com/2007/01/18/nokia-n...-one-months-use (http://mobilecrunch.com/2007/01/18/nokia-n800-a-real-world-review-after-one-months-use)
"N800 Photos Posted a.k.a. Thwarted by My NDA
Sometimes being tight with a company is a double edged sword. Take the recent unveiling of the Nokia N800. I’d been using the device daily for a month but couldn’t post the images or do an unboxing because I am under NDA to the company; that’s the admission price I paid to have access to the N800 before anyone else in North America."
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http://mobilecrunch.com/2007/01/18/nokia-n...-one-months-use (http://mobilecrunch.com/2007/01/18/nokia-n800-a-real-world-review-after-one-months-use)
"N800 Photos Posted a.k.a. Thwarted by My NDA
Sometimes being tight with a company is a double edged sword. Take the recent unveiling of the Nokia N800. I’d been using the device daily for a month but couldn’t post the images or do an unboxing because I am under NDA to the company; that’s the admission price I paid to have access to the N800 before anyone else in North America."
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Hi Speculatrix,
Yeah, bought one on the day it became available here in North America. Took some getting used to compared to the Z but overall a very sweet device.
I put a 4GB SD card into it and the unit worked right off the hop.
J.
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If you have the time I 'm sure a number of us would appreciate a mini-review.
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If you have the time I 'm sure a number of us would appreciate a mini-review.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152116\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
yeah, I would like to see a three-way comparison... living with the Nokia 800, 770 and zaurus
covering web browsing, voip telephony, media playback, networking with wifi and bluetooth, developing your own applications, and general use + battery life.
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Aye, this is something I would really love to see as well. Especially considering the processor speed on the nokia is not really comparable in mhz
If you have the time I 'm sure a number of us would appreciate a mini-review.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152116\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
yeah, I would like to see a three-way comparison... living with the Nokia 800, 770 and zaurus
covering web browsing, voip telephony, media playback, networking with wifi and bluetooth, developing your own applications, and general use + battery life.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152136\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
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All of that info (and more) is readily available here :
http://www.internettablettalk.com/ (http://www.internettablettalk.com/)
Of course they talk about as much of the Zaurus there than we of the Nokia here, but I guess one can compare with his own experience :-)
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Any clues on battery life? Nokia say 3 hours of use, which ain't exactly hot.
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I was like -->| |<-- this close to having an N800 in my hands today! ... went to compusa and they only have it in the box ... no display sets!!! grrr ... and the 770's batt is dead! bummer!
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I see Infosync have finally reviewed it:
summary:
http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/n/7427.html (http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/n/7427.html)
review:
http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/n/7427.html (http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/n/7427.html)
they only gave it 73%
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Two good reviews:
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html (http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html)
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html (http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html)
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Two good reviews:
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html (http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html)
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html (http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8033409446.html)
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erm, cut n paste error? these URLs were the same!
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The right URL:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17092/Revi...Internet-Tablet (http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17092/Review-Nokia-N800-Internet-Tablet)
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After reading some of the reviews and posts in internettablettalk, I got a vague impression that N800 can run debian packages. Can anyone confirm that?
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I reviewed the N800 here:
http://slashdot.org/~macemoneta/journal/ (http://slashdot.org/~macemoneta/journal/)
Alternate locations:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/blog/m...N800_Experience (http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/blog/macemoneta/2007-02-17/Nokia_N800_Experience)
http://macemoneta.blogspot.com/ (http://macemoneta.blogspot.com/)
Overall very interesting, but the software catalog is small with little change. Without an infusion of developers, this product will fade away.
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I reviewed the N800 here:
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hmm, very interesting. whilst I was initially very excited, I don't think I'll be trading my z 3100 for an n800 until a combo slide-on hard-case mini keyboard is available for the N800.
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I reviewed the N800 here:
http://slashdot.org/~macemoneta/journal/ (http://slashdot.org/~macemoneta/journal/)
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The more I read about it, the less I understand what it is actually good at. An internet tablet with a 4'' with less than 4 Hrs runtime doesn't seems an exceedingly convincing concept to me.
If it had a set of good PIM apps, it would be ok. If it had umts connectivity, it would be ok. If it had a keyboard, it would be ok. Somehow I have the impression that something is missing here.
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I reviewed the N800 here:
http://slashdot.org/~macemoneta/journal/ (http://slashdot.org/~macemoneta/journal/)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154854\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The more I read about it, the less I understand what it is actually good at. An internet tablet with a 4'' with less than 4 Hrs runtime doesn't seems an exceedingly convincing concept to me.
If it had a set of good PIM apps, it would be ok. If it had umts connectivity, it would be ok. If it had a keyboard, it would be ok. Somehow I have the impression that something is missing here.
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Having just purchased an N800, I can answer some of the questions. The battery life is getting better. I just went 36 hours with the N800 connected to my WLAN. I wasn't playing with it all of those 36 hours (I did sleep), but anytime I wanted to, I picked it up and did things. I also had a ssh session into the N800 from my latop the entire time.
PIM apps are there in the form of GPE PIM apps. I haven't loaded them all, but the Calendar is nice (not perfect, but neither is the Z's).
I understand, and have seen videos of people connecting to the Internet via their bluetooth phones. But haven't done this myself (data plans are horribly expensive in Canada).
I did buy a Think Outside Bluetooth keyboard, which works quite nicely. I take a lot of notes on my Z and now N800, so a keyboard was a given.
The N800 is far from perfect (there is a problem with it corrupting 8GB SDHC cards right now). But it is a nice upgrade from my SL-6000 (double the RAM, double the flash, Skype, as well as SIP phone, Opera 8.5, and Flash 9, and the ability to take 2 SDHC cards).
Craig...
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I think the N800 has a definite niche. Having had both a 6000 and 3200 I realised that once I was used to a PDA with a proper keyboard I didn't want to go back to a thumboard; however, I am adept with Palm Graffiti (v1) and still use my T3 as a PIM and never think "if it only had a keyboard". I've not tried an N800, but if it had good (even if stylised like Graffiti) handwriting recog, I'd probably be happy.
The Palm Foleo has also been an interesting failure, had the price been right and it'd been smaller, I'd have considered one as the equivalent of a big brother to the Z. So far, noone's been bold enough to make such a thing, perhaps until the new Fujitsu?
Consumers are fickle, and the only company who can seem to sell anything no matter whether it's overpriced or underfeatured is Apple.
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Having both an n800 and a C-3100 (pdaxii), I find I reach for the nokia for the internet experience and the zaurus for everything else.
My two biggest frustrations on the n800 are (1) lack of built-in keyboard (yes, I have a bluetooth keyboard); and (2) the non-standard (hildon) user interface.
The apps that have been designed for the n800 are pretty cool and innovative, and there is an active developer community -- but it does not seem as easy as a straight compile or access to full debian as in titchy for zaurus. The zaurus has a bigger stable of traditional applications.
The n800 does have a very rich python environment, so many of the new and cool apps are written in that.
The n800 is also a fine media player device, although, subjectively, I find mplayer on the zaurus to be better performing. There are some innovative audio players for the n800, my favorite being a port of exaile for its interface and ogg playing abilities. But I still prefer xmms (not available on the nokia) for many of my purposes.
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I am wondering whether we zaurians could tap into the software library of the N800 if we could install a few compatibility libraries - I've given up on extracting a working Skype from the Sony Mylo, but there's one on the Nokia, also there's a google talk app with voice which would be nice.
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I am wondering whether we zaurians could tap into the software library of the N800 if we could install a few compatibility libraries - I've given up on extracting a working Skype from the Sony Mylo, but there's one on the Nokia, also there's a google talk app with voice which would be nice.
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Both apps work quite nicely on the N800.
I would think that zaurus users would run into the same problem that N800 users run into when wishing to use a qtopia app... the inverse - being gnome, which is what's actually behind hildon. And even then, I think that skype is tightly tied to the hardware on the N800. Not sure about google talk (or Gizmo Project, which also exists for the N800), but I suspect both of those apps are also tightly tied to the hardware.
Next year's application development should prove to be interesting, with the several MIDs that are coming out. From what I've seen, there won't be much in the way of qtopia, rather most will be some variant of gnome.
R.
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I am wondering whether we zaurians could tap into the software library of the N800 if we could install a few compatibility libraries - I've given up on extracting a working Skype from the Sony Mylo, but there's one on the Nokia, also there's a google talk app with voice which would be nice.
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Alas, if only it were that simple. The Z uses an ARM5 and the N800 uses an ARM6, and the binaries are not compatible
The N800 doesn't have bash (built-in), and I have already tried to "borrow" bash from the Z, won't even run enough to give a core dump.
I was quite happy with my Z, but I was interested in trying out some of the newer apps for the N800, such as Skype, and Flash9. I had hopes I could get my WiSpy working, but without a Host USB adaptor (which the 770 has) it doesn't look like that is going to happen.
Craig...
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The N800 doesn't have bash (built-in), and I have already tried to "borrow" bash from the Z, won't even run enough to give a core dump.
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There's a port of bash for the N800 on maemo.org.
R.
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I would think that zaurus users would run into the same problem that N800 users run into when wishing to use a qtopia app... the inverse - being gnome, which is what's actually
that wouldn't be a problem - angstrom has GPE/GTK/X11.
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Alas, if only it were that simple. The Z uses an ARM5 and the N800 uses an ARM6, and the binaries are not compatible
The N800 doesn't have bash (built-in), and I have already tried to "borrow" bash from the Z, won't even run enough to give a core dump.
ah, very useful to know, thanks!
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Alas, if only it were that simple. The Z uses an ARM5 and the N800 uses an ARM6, and the binaries are not compatible
A minor correction: N800 uses ARMv6 instruction set (ARM11 core) and Z uses ARMv5 + IWMMXT instruction set (XScale core).
Anyway, most packages on N800 are compiled for ARMv5 and the same binaries can be used on Nokia 770 as part of OS2007 Hacker's Edition. Third party binary blobs such as skype and other proprietary payload may be compiled with hardware specific optimizations enabled though.
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Alas, if only it were that simple. The Z uses an ARM5 and the N800 uses an ARM6, and the binaries are not compatible
A minor correction: N800 uses ARMv6 instruction set (ARM11 core) and Z uses ARMv5 + IWMMXT instruction set (XScale core).
Anyway, most packages on N800 are compiled for ARMv5 and the same binaries can be used on Nokia 770 as part of OS2007 Hacker's Edition. Third party binary blobs such as skype and other proprietary payload may be compiled with hardware specific optimizations enabled though.
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They also may use the DSP core present in the TI OMAP processors.
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thanks everyone for enlightening me. I'm still discovering just how different ARM processors can be - so much so that I'm surprised that some apps do run on different platforms at all, but I guess if they're built for low-end ARMs and rely on system libraries for most things then there's a good chance of cross-platform independence.
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Just thought I'd throw this out there.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/25/nokias-...t-hits-the-fcc/ (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/25/nokias-next-internet-tablet-hits-the-fcc/)
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I can't officially say for sure, but over at tabletblog.com Daniel's dug up something that indicates the next version of the tablet will have a slideout keyboard: http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/third-intern...-confirmed.html (http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/third-internet-tablet-slider-confirmed.html)
R.
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