OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => New products and alternatives => Topic started by: Biggerfoot on January 09, 2007, 02:43:28 pm
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As a Mac user, the new iPhone is a tempting replacement for my trusty 5500. I am looking forward to seeing it in person.
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The clamshell Zs have 640x480 screens as well as keyboards. And they run Linux. I also like the option to switch ROMs, not that I have in a while. Linux seems to be a better fit on a handheld than OSX does as well. I just think that the Z is more flexible.
I personally don't like OSX or Apple, so pardon me if I'm being negative.
By the way, this probably should have been a poll.
Edit: For those of you who couldn't tell, I'm quite sure the iPhone won't replace my Z. Also, with it being a phone, there seems to be little chance of a working Linux OS for it any time soon.
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It won't be replacing my Zs either. I am an OS X fan and I like the iPhone concept but, the screen resolution and the lack of USB Host or card slots are killing it for me.
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It won't be replacing my Zs either. I am an OS X fan and I like the iPhone concept but, the screen resolution and the lack of USB Host or card slots are killing it for me.
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I forgot about those! USB host is really nice, but you really end up with only one card slot after you add in wireless.
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It won't be replacing my Zs either. I am an OS X fan and I like the iPhone concept but, the screen resolution and the lack of USB Host or card slots are killing it for me.
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I forgot about those! USB host is really nice, but you really end up with only one card slot after you add in wireless.
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Unless you performed surgery on a 1000 and added the wireless internally.
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"iPhone also introduces an entirely new user interface based on a large multi-touch display and pioneering new software, letting you control everything with just your fingers."
Sure is a fancy way of saying "we couldn't figure out how to put a keyboard on it so we'll let you smear your screen all up with your fingers."
I'm not sure what this does that the Cingular 8525 couldn't do, other than use iTunes instead of URGE.
The biggest impact this will probably have is on the next release of Microsoft's mobile OS.
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hmm, makes for interesting comparisons with Nokia's N95 smartphone and the tablet N800.
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I think, the iPhone is squarely in the category of a phone, with a PDA functionality added on. It just is a plain well designed phone. The Zaurus on the other hand is more of a PDA falling into the category of a mobile computer. The iPhone is certainly not a computer even if it has OSX under the hood.
That's because there is no keyboard for faster input, no USB host (a computer which accepts peripherals), no screen to allow real-world computing real-estate (i mean even those old PALMS with 20x20 or whatever screen resolution tried computing, but doing PIM apps aint computing really), no support for ROM switch to make it flexible and fit the computing task at hand. So certainly it can't replace the Zaurus.
I think comparing the iPhone with the Zaurus is a bit like comparing apples with oranges.
While on the other hand the Zaurus could not be called a phone (even it it had GSM radio on it). Tha't because its not built like a phone form factor and also various other reasons.
So the two just seem to be differet categories altogether.
Thats how I see it.
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Actually i was quite impressed and am happy to see some pressure applied to the stock microsoft theme set that gets shipped, its plain ugly and has need a rehash for years
i cant wait to see linux running on it as it seems like a very solid unit, whoever apple seems to have done a very good job at polishing the interface, and i mean very good. i would class it as a mid range device however as it really seems to be lacking some of the top end features that power users like
aother thing i like is the lack of buttons and the fact that the touch screen can detect more than one pointer on the screen at once (great for games) which would open up some intresting posibilities (rotate pictures with 2 fingers, allowing you to change the point around which it rotates easily)
anyway apple seems to be keeping to the "keep it simple" pholosphy that has worked for so long, i feel this hurts some people in the long run but it cuts down on my tech support calls.
if i didnnt have my htc tytn then i would have considered this as my next phone, but i dont think it really competes except in terms of interface which once wisbar has been installed is less of an issue
time will tell
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This may replace my Z in the category of a carry every where gadget (pda phone). I'll wait for the 3g version they say is coming (currently only edge) and I must be able to access the commandline. I'm curious as to the cpu and ram. I am disappointed with the screen resolution and battery time. For any serious keyboard input, I would hope you could use a bluetooth keyboard. The Z would just be relegated a portable computer.
Sure it doesn't have alot of things the Z has but has the things I like (phone, osx, internet, bluetooth, 4GB hdd, 2MB camera and unix/linux)
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It's a piece if shit...really!
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It's a piece if shit...really!
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Damn dude, don't hold it in. Just tell us how you really feel! I kinda like it. Pretty slick, if it really works.
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I personally don't like OSX or Apple, so pardon me if I'm being negative.
Capn Fish,
Have you used Apple products before?
What's wrong with OSX?
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lets see......4 gigs of space......+music +video=they are on crack!!!! so they expect me to buy online stuff and keep it in my phone? haha!
I would be believe 1 terabyte but 4 gigs? really....they think i'm stupid and totally insulting my intelligence.
It's like my levi's i been owning since I was in high school- They expect me to throw it away after use and buy a new one. Guess again.
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Well, as far as a smartphone goes, it looks intriguing. Then again, I'm looking for an upgrade for my Treo 650 and was going to look into one of those linux smartphones with the VGA display. (And I just bought my first Mac today - a Macbook )
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lets see......4 gigs of space......+music +video=they are on crack!!!! so they expect me to buy online stuff and keep it in my phone? haha!
I would be believe 1 terabyte but 4 gigs? really....they think i'm stupid and totally insulting my intelligence.
It's like my levi's i been owning since I was in high school- They expect me to throw it away after use and buy a new one. Guess again.
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No offence but, I'm not quite following you here. Our 3200s only have 6 gigs of space built-in. Are you insulted by Sharp, too?
Yes, you can add more through the SD slot but, by the time the iPhone ships the highest capacity you will be able to buy will be a 2GB SD for your Z thanks to SDHC. That gives you the exact same capacity as the high end iPhone. I know some of us have 4GB SD cards but, those are no longer being manufactured since the SDHC cards were released and stocks of them will surely dry up before June.
I'm not counting the CF slot in my 3200 because it spends most of the time with a network card of some sort stuck in it. And I believe that is how most people around here use their Zs as well.
Based on the pictures I saw the battery on the iPhone looks to be user replaceable unlike the iPods
Other than that to each his own.
When I first saw the the 5000/5500 I had pretty much the same reaction as I did when I saw the iPhone today. Which was, "Cool gadget! I can't to see the version they'll release that has all the features I want. When that happens I will pick one up for sure." In the Zs case, I needed, clamshell, VGA screen, USB host, multi-gigs of storage, WiFi for less than a grand. Sharp
got almost all of that right except for the WiFi. Apple needs to provide me with the same wish list and I'll pick one. Although, I bet I have to give up on clamshell for the iPhone just like I gave up on WiFi for the Z.
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I'll just say it once.
Let me know when you can just drag a file into that phone without it needing itunes or some other crap software and I would be very happy when that's available.
Other than that, it is total crap.
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on diff note....
Just the other day, I helped a buddy kick the ipod and went for the zen from creative(4-6 inch screen, 60gb hardisk). Sure it needs software but all we do is drag and drop video, music, pictures and it comes with a cf slot for pictures with usable adaptors for etc. media cards- simple.
my cuzin ran into a mini-ipod, ituns crashed like hell on my bro's pc---was total crap. The solution was to use winamp with plugin to make it run. It is just awesome without that bloated software. 4 diff pc's running that itunes totally sucks.
I really preffer using terminal or dos to transfer files over to my unit. Sometimes explorer or filebrowser without some company needing to put stupid software on my pc which causes tons of problems.
my nephews pc- I showed him a few tricks avoiding itunes totally and now all his friends and himself included use winamp to transfer files into ipod video along with videos done in xillisoft.
So there you have it. I love the product but the software is total pain in the butt!
phone looks gorgeous. best phone in the block..i may buy one but i want to look at it first. Believe me when i tell you ill be using it as a phone only.
can I run e17 on this?
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I think comparing the iPhone with the Zaurus is a bit like comparing apples with oranges.
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Well put, and I agree.
Maybe we will find the iPhone to be fairly hackable telephone after it's been released, but the Zaurus is still in the PDA category... and sadly it is a dieing category.
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I'll just say it once.
Let me know when you can just drag a file into that phone without it needing itunes or some other crap software and I would be very happy when that's available.
Other than that, it is total crap.
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on diff note....
Just the other day, I helped a buddy kick the ipod and went for the zen from creative(4-6 inch screen, 60gb hardisk). Sure it needs software but all we do is drag and drop video, music, pictures and it comes with a cf slot for pictures with usable adaptors for etc. media cards- simple.
my cuzin ran into a mini-ipod, ituns crashed like hell on my bro's pc---was total crap. The solution was to use winamp with plugin to make it run. It is just awesome without that bloated software. 4 diff pc's running that itunes totally sucks.
I really preffer using terminal or dos to transfer files over to my unit. Sometimes explorer or filebrowser without some company needing to put stupid software on my pc which causes tons of problems.
my nephews pc- I showed him a few tricks avoiding itunes totally and now all his friends and himself included use winamp to transfer files into ipod video along with videos done in xillisoft.
So there you have it. I love the product but the software is total pain in the butt!
phone looks gorgeous. best phone in the block..i may buy one but i want to look at it first. Believe me when i tell you ill be using it as a phone only.
can I run e17 on this?
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You can barely run e17 on the Z.
I drag and drop music on my iPod all the time. Sure it uses iTunes, but I've never had a problem with it. My wife and her assistant both use iTunes on their pc's, never have a problem with it. I figure by the time I can get my hands on an iPhone, most of the bugs will have been worked out. Though I may never get one if they stick with just cingular. They aren't up here yet...
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does anybody have a detailed iphone specs?
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From this thread at 1src:
http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=...94&postcount=26 (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=968694&postcount=26)
Specs:
Screen size: 3.5 inches
Screen resolution: 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method: Multi-touch
Operating system: OS X
Storage: 4GB or 8GB
GSM: Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data: Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera: 2.0 megapixels
Battery
* Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
* Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions: 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight: 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
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Thanks, but those are already up there on Apple's website. I mean the specs of CPU, flash memory, etc that developers are interested.
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This iphone, just like the Nokia N800, is another 'almost' but ultimately a failure in my eyes. If the Nokia N800 had been a clamshell with keyboard, internal HDD and proper USB host then that would've been a true successor to the c3x00 Z's. The iphones screen (res wise) and HD aren't big enough to make it a good video playback device and I'll bet it has all sorts of annoying DRM to stop you enjoying music properly on it.
On the other hand, the computing industries refusal to release a better clamshell device than the c3x00 helps protect my investment and bragging rights but it does make you wonder if the PDA market really is dead.
kahm:
I honestly think you should start listing the computers you DON'T own in your sig, it'll be shorter. Do you have an IT block in your house
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e17 on the iphone, not likly but i have heard roumors of the zune doing those sorts of tricks
i think i am at the point where i feel that the "common man" is holding me back in terms of technolagy. we have all this cool stuff that is too "complicated" for the users or so they say
as an entry level phone this thing is a real killer, no more no less. where this thing dosent compete is in the top end (i feel the same way about blackberries) however that wont stop somepeople from bragging that its a top end phone and the best on the market
to those people i say "is your phone loaded with an ftp server, webserver and a mobile torrent client and can do aoying things with bluetooth to other people " some people need these features some dont (btw the web and ftp servers are for moving files around on wlan, its my version of samba for wince)
on the other hand i am learning from apple, they did make some incredable UI choices and asthetic choices as well (keyboard pops up a notification above the top to show which button you pushed). after seeing this and the fund drive for the open source nvidia cards it really pushes me too finish off what i have been doing (even more so after my Z "incedent")
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For me:
iPhone = iPod within the hood of a nice consumer Phone and creatively designed user interface + internet&mail access.
Zaurus = Minicomputer for your pocket with a multitude of communication options and accessories
-- hns
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personally, I'm more interested in the neo.
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One main issue for use as a personal phone is battery life. 5 hours? that is terrible. at least 12 is perfect. Not alot of phones can do this I agree but I expected more. I was willing to gor for such a device but not for 5 hours talktime.
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No offence but, I'm not quite following you here. Our 3200s only have 6 gigs of space built-in. Are you insulted by Sharp, too?
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given there are 20GB microdrives existing, I am surprised apple didn't use one... however I have never found any way of actually buying one!
the latest JVC everio digi camcorders have 60GB options, if these are microdrives then I would love to have one in the Z!
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I personally don't like OSX or Apple, so pardon me if I'm being negative.
Capn Fish,
Have you used Apple products before?
What's wrong with OSX?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150604\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I find OSX hard to use, but that's probably just me not being used to it. I feel that they took perfectly good Unix and messed it up. The lack of a right mouse button is awkward too. I also don't like the bar at the top of the screen or the one at the bottom. I don't know what either one is called, but one seems to be a quick launch/taskbar and the other seems to be a standard launch bar.
I have used iPods, and I don't really like the scroll wheel. It kind of hurts my thumb after a while. Their desktop all-in-ones, whatever they're called, are pretty slick, but I don't like the white. It stands out too much, and I also like to be able to tinker inside my desktops easily.
Does that clear that up well enough?
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The future will tell if the Apple iPhone will be a totally closed device with nobody other than Apple and Apple blessed co-developers will be able to develop apps for it or others can also write apps for it using a freely (or easily) available SDK - which actually makes it an open device.
I doubt that 2nd option will ever happen.
So in essence you are locked down to what Apple provides and maybe a little hack here and there.
If that is indeed the case, then it really can't compare with the Zaurus. I mean how many Windows Smartphone phones have been loaded with Linux (OE) (widely) so far ?
Do we think we can just put a FTP server or VNC client on it and get going ? No way I think. Apple is going to lock it down well and good to its own walled garden of hardware and software (with MS Windows support of course thrown in). The only difference is that this time its a hardware company dictating what works and what does not instead of the ISP, which screwed us so far with Smartphone features disables and killed.
Hope I am proved wrong though.
But I have to give it to Apple for designing this beauty and I think it will move the ground from underneath many a phone designer and service provider in terms of changing the playing field.
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I find OSX hard to use, but that's probably just me not being used to it. I feel that they took perfectly good Unix and messed it up. The lack of a right mouse button is awkward too. I also don't like the bar at the top of the screen or the one at the bottom. I don't know what either one is called, but one seems to be a quick launch/taskbar and the other seems to be a standard launch bar.
I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but in what way is it messed up?! Open "Terminal" and there's a perfectly good Bash shell awaiting your command. Enter a common Unix command (note Unix != Linux) and it works pretty much as expected. In fact, Apple even provided command line tools that support administering many of the Mac's "custom" features. Sure it takes some time to learn. The same would be true if you were a BSD person using Linux for the first time or a Linux person using Solaris.
Install Apple's X11 server and you can install and run standard Unix X Windows apps (including a genuine Xterm if the Mac's Terminal prog isn't Unixy enough for you). For example, I use GnuCash on my Mac all the time.
As for the "bar" at the top, that's for your menus. The menus for your focused app show up there. Note how you can just throw your mouse cursor to the top of the screen and hit the menu bar -- much easier that having to aim for a 30 pixel thick strip of sceen real estate located at some random position on the display. Google for Fitt's Law to learn more about this aspect of GUI usability.
And the single button mouse argument? Please. You can use pretty much any mouse you want with Macs and they fully support the second button. Even Apple's own Mighty Mouse (though technically having no buttons) supports left and right clicks.
OS X is far from perfect (don't even get me started about the supposed "consistent look & feel"), but if you're going to bash it, at least pick on the "real" issues.
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I find OSX hard to use, but that's probably just me not being used to it. I feel that they took perfectly good Unix and messed it up. The lack of a right mouse button is awkward too. I also don't like the bar at the top of the screen or the one at the bottom. I don't know what either one is called, but one seems to be a quick launch/taskbar and the other seems to be a standard launch bar.
I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but in what way is it messed up?! Open "Terminal" and there's a perfectly good Bash shell awaiting your command. Enter a common Unix command (note Unix != Linux) and it works pretty much as expected. In fact, Apple even provided command line tools that support administering many of the Mac's "custom" features. Sure it takes some time to learn. The same would be true if you were a BSD person using Linux for the first time or a Linux person using Solaris.
Install Apple's X11 server and you can install and run standard Unix X Windows apps (including a genuine Xterm if the Mac's Terminal prog isn't Unixy enough for you). For example, I use GnuCash on my Mac all the time.
As for the "bar" at the top, that's for your menus. The menus for your focused app show up there. Note how you can just throw your mouse cursor to the top of the screen and hit the menu bar -- much easier that having to aim for a 30 pixel thick strip of sceen real estate located at some random position on the display. Google for Fitt's Law to learn more about this aspect of GUI usability.
And the single button mouse argument? Please. You can use pretty much any mouse you want with Macs and they fully support the second button. Even Apple's own Mighty Mouse (though technically having no buttons) supports left and right clicks.
OS X is far from perfect (don't even get me started about the supposed "consistent look & feel"), but if you're going to bash it, at least pick on the "real" issues.
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Sorry! I don't mean to bash Apple. They do a great job in the innovation department.
I don't use Macs often, but the last time I did, I couldn't find the Terminal, and that was semi-looking for it. As for the mouse thing, the Macs I've used had the standard Mac mice with them, and I don't carry a spare mouse everywhere I go.
It's not that I hate Apple or Macs, I just don't like them. I feel that if I'm going to use something other than Windows, I'll use Linux. It works on my current hardware.
That's one other thing I have against Macs. They cost more than a standard PC. I guess that's what you pay for style, but I don't really like the white. I'm cheap, so I buy refurb computers from Dell at a fraction of full price, and if something breaks after the warranty is up, I can easily open the case and replace just about anything.
I don't want to start a war or anything, so sorry if I'm not a fan of Apple. I'm trying to voice my opinion without ticking anybody off or saying bad things just because.
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The future will tell if the Apple iPhone will be a totally closed device with nobody other than Apple and Apple blessed co-developers will be able to develop apps for it or others can also write apps for it using a freely (or easily) available SDK - which actually makes it an open device.
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I've seen comments in a number of places today suggesting that the iPhone will be a "closed" platform but I really can't understand what's prompting them. I fail to see any good reason why Apple would want to lock third party developers out of the iPhone. OS X is *very* open to developers. The entire OS X SDK (including compiler and IDE) is a free download to anyone willing to fill out the registration form on Apple's web site. The success of the Mac is largely a result of high quality third party software ... much of which comes from small development shops. My experience has been that Mac shareware is of extremely high quality and is a big contributor to the Mac's loyal user base (you can have my copy of Quicksilver smwhen you pry it from my cold, dead fingers ).
To me it looks like the iPhone will support OS X Dashboard Widgets (in fact the whole UI is strikingly similar to Dashboard). If that's true (and you can install new widgets), then you'd be able to create your own apps using little more than HTML and Javascript (which is how one currently writes Widgets for OS X). And the fact that Widgets are not compiled means that they could potentially work cross-platform allowing you to run the same Widget on your iPhone and your Mac.
I see the potential for a rebirth of the Palm Pilot software development world where developers could create small, simple, specialized apps without investing thousands of hours in embedded software development. This could only help sell more iPhones, so why would Apple oppose it?
And as for Cingular, they already ship all their Windows Mobile devices unlocked (at least for adding software) so why would this be any different? As long as they keep their exclusive, more iPhones = more contracts = more guaranteed monthly revenue. And most useful apps will want to interact with the network in some way, so more available apps means more network usage (and more $$$) for the Cingular. Some carriers are too short-sighted to recognize such a business opportunity, but I've seen little evidence that Cingular is amongst them.
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I think many here are too negative about iphone and may want to consider the following before completely dismissing it so early in the game.
1. Commercialy supported unix on pda/phone device (this is a first?)
2. Light versions of many very good apps (ok some will argue this but please do you really believe that apps such as itunes and safari are not likely to be better than anything else running on pda's at the moment - if not imediately then very soon?)
3. Sync that actually works more or less the same as on desktop (and is comercially supported by sucessful and rich company whose future likely depends on this type of device doing well)
The biggest problem I see with iphone as presented is lack of keyboard (but somehow I think we will very quickly see all kinds of accessories including bluetooth keyboards and mice in all kinds of forms/sizes/fashions - this will happen since new phones and ipods seem to trigger accessories very quickly, even expensive ones such as iMacs ). Also, I think that either some interesting 3'rd party keyboard, or some future apple release will convert iphone to clamshell format (those of us who love clamshell z's know this works best regardless of what Jobs said in his keynote).
Other minor concerns which I think/hope will be worked out soon are no clear up-front statement regarding support for 3rd party software development, batery life, initial limit of 8Gig storage (a big drawback), and processor power - but clearly if enough people buy into this device (and I think with all the hype and ipod fanaticism this is guaranteed to happen) we will soon see much more powerful iphones - few years down the road powerfull enough to perhaps retire the mac mini.
Anyway, I am now much more hopeful about future pda/phone offerings since at minimum iphone will push many others to carefully review their strategies (maybe even Sharp although the realist in me is affraid that Sharp's answer to iphone will be probably be another fancy Japanese electronic dictionary).
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FWIW, I use an old but 'souped-up' PMG4 tower for my main machine at home. It runs OSX well and overall it's a real joy to use.
For my mouse I'm using a Kensington trackball with 2 buttons.
Before that I was using the Kensington trackball with 4 buttons (until it broke)...
So, OSX definitely supports more than 1 mouse button if that's what you want to use....
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Kopsis, I don't mean to foretell the future (never was into that line of thought), but all my negetive forecast (or rather projections) was because when you look at the ISP and Phone industry, they have not really been proponents of openness and accesability very much. And I was just going by the same yardstick.
Of course if Apple really does open it up to 3rd party development, than the better. In fact I think the phone itself by its nature and its collaboration with Cingular (As an ISP they stand out beyond the Verizons and Sprints in terms of openness) to change the Voicemail part itself shows that Apple can move and shake this frigid industry like they did with the Music industry by sticking to their guns of charging a flat rate for all songs. So I do take my hats off to Apple for trying something new.
And by calling them "closed", remember that I am comparing against the Zaurus (not Sharp) yardstick of openness, that's what the thread was all about.
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It appears cisco is suing apple for iphone.
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/01/10/2320257.shtml (http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/01/10/2320257.shtml)
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I'll wait for a totally open, linux eating phone without any bells and whistles which I can program any way I choose. By saying this I am not knocking anyone.
cycle_55
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just had a major thoght last night
seems to me that apple really has the low end cornered, windows has the middle ground and linux has the high ground (in terms of how good you are with technolagy)
of course there are exceptions but i find it rather funny. now if only each one relised this and agrreed to stay in thier respective nicheies (windows im looking at you)
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Any chance we can get an "unlocked" iPhone, which means you can switch carrier just by switching the SIM card? I am not hoping this will ever happen in the US. But Jobs mentioned that iPhone will enter the Asian market by 2008. AFAIK, a locked wireless handset has little chance to survive in the Asian market. Maybe we can see an unlocked version in Asian or European market. The value of iphone will not be justified until then as a piece of standalone hardware and an open set of OS+SDK. Any wireless ISP crap should be stripped off before I'm willing to pay the price.
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As a Mac user, the new iPhone is a tempting replacement for my trusty 5500. [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150571\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, I am a mac user too, and the iPhone is useless to me. I use my Zaurus heavily for spreadsheets, and need a keyboard. Time to check out the OQO Model 02, I reckon.
The iPhone is a real disappointment (but not a surprise)...
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How is it that every new devise which comes along is going to replace the Z. My Z is going to very difficult to replace. I would be much happier with these sorts of threads if they were more about comparing apples to apples
cycle_55
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How is it that every new devise which comes along is going to replace the Z. My Z is going to very difficult to replace. I would be much happier with these sorts of threads if they were more about comparing apples to apples
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
yeah, I got an OQO and it does not replace the Z. It may do other things that the Z can't do, but the Z does so many things it can't do. And btw, the OQO is an overprized piece of $$$$. And don't ever buy from expansys. Their service is crap.
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platform but I really can't understand what's prompting them. I fail to see any good reason why Apple would want to lock third party developers out of the iPhone. OS X is *very* open to developers. The entire OS X SDK (including compiler and IDE) is a free download to anyone willing to fill out the registration form on Apple's web site. The success of the Mac is largely a [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150730\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
if a significant part of the iPhone system is made open source or at least available for download, then I for one would be interested in seeing it ported to the zaurus!
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And don't ever buy from expansys. Their service is crap.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I agree with that... two of us bought refurb'd Palm T3s at work, described as "as new, boxed, complete" - they were listed by specific number, and different units had different grades and descriptions implying that they were 100% definite as to condition. One arrived as described - could have been brand new, the other very tatty. Took quite a while to get expansys to even take notice, ended up forcing a refund by threatening credit card chargeback.
Anyway, this is off-topic.
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I've seen comments in a number of places today suggesting that the iPhone will be a "closed" platform but I really can't understand what's prompting them. I fail to see any good reason why Apple would want to lock third party developers out of the iPhone.
Well, the same argument would hold for the iPod and 3rd party games - but it was and is locked...
OS X is *very* open to developers. The entire OS X SDK (including compiler and IDE) is a free download to anyone willing to fill out the registration form on Apple's web site. The success of the Mac is largely a result of high quality third party software ... much of which comes from small development shops. My experience has been that Mac shareware is of extremely high quality and is a big contributor to the Mac's loyal user base (you can have my copy of Quicksilver smwhen you pry it from my cold, dead fingers ).
To me it looks like the iPhone will support OS X Dashboard Widgets (in fact the whole UI is strikingly similar to Dashboard). If that's true (and you can install new widgets), then you'd be able to create your own apps using little more than HTML and Javascript (which is how one currently writes Widgets for OS X). And the fact that Widgets are not compiled means that they could potentially work cross-platform allowing you to run the same Widget on your iPhone and your Mac.
That is exactly the same conclusion I came to while trying to collect all these bits of information. And, Safari understands HTML&Javascript - all similar requirements for Google Maps on a Phone.
-- hns
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How is it that every new devise which comes along is going to replace the Z. My Z is going to very difficult to replace. I would be much happier with these sorts of threads if they were more about comparing apples to apples
cycle_55
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I know I look at whether these new devices will replace my Z because I am dying for more innovation (better screen, faster processor, more memory) and better integration (wifi, BT). For most of the power users on this site, it will take one special device to replace ALL that you are doing with your Z's. For some the iPhone may fit the bill.
The one thing Apple has done with the iPhone and basing it on OSX, they have laid the foundation to build on. Can you imagine in the future an iPhone that runs a mobile version of iWork (word processor, presentation, and soon to be added spreadsheet) and a mobile version of iTunes so you can purchase and download music, TV shows, and music wirelessly. Then think about integrating all of this with your .Mac account accessible wirelessly so that you can store and retrieve your iWork documents there, store and retrieve your iTunes media there, etc, etc, etc.
It's obvious that the iPhone is not for everyone. I do like the innovation they put into the phone, but will it be open to third-party development? If you want a hackable phone, then the Neo1973 by FIC may be what many are looking for. It won't replace the Zaurus for many of you either, but it sure will be fun to play with.
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I know I look at whether these new devices will replace my Z because I am dying for more innovation (better screen, faster processor, more memory) and better integration (wifi, BT).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150824\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
IMVHO the HTC universal can be zaurus killer, and there's still too much that's work in progress (http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus).
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I'm way, way more interested in the OpenMoko phone...
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hmmm...I don't see anthing about speech recognition for dialing through a bluetooth headset. That could be a deal breaker...
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if a significant part of the iPhone system is made open source or at least available for download, then I for one would be interested in seeing it ported to the zaurus!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
What are you smoking man, give me some of it... wish I could have pipe dreams like that.
As much as we like the iPhone, and as much as we debate the probability of it not being closed, there is no way Apple is going to give out the source to that - and don't tell me "Oh OSX is based on UNIX which is open source (depends) so..." .
I mean look at iTV, ok Apple TV- its meant to get your iTunes movies to the TV basically - so it plays well within the Apple garden. The iPod, the iTunes, iTv and now I bet the iPhone will all just play well to Apple services. Of course that's not to say that 3rd party developers can write apps for it, but open-source it so you can port to some other device - I need that hell of a smoking stuff that you are smoking speculatrix.
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hmmm...I don't see anthing about speech recognition for dialing through a bluetooth headset. That could be a deal breaker...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
My Moto can't even pronounce my wife's name correctly. I had to change her entry to "Wife".
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if a significant part of the iPhone system is made open source or at least available for download, then I for one would be interested in seeing it ported to the zaurus!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
What are you smoking man, give me some of it... wish I could have pipe dreams like that.
As much as we like the iPhone, and as much as we debate the probability of it not being closed, there is no way Apple is going to give out the source to that - and don't tell me "Oh OSX is based on UNIX which is open source (depends) so..." .
I mean look at iTV, ok Apple TV- its meant to get your iTunes movies to the TV basically - so it plays well within the Apple garden. The iPod, the iTunes, iTv and now I bet the iPhone will all just play well to Apple services. Of course that's not to say that 3rd party developers can write apps for it, but open-source it so you can port to some other device - I need that hell of a smoking stuff that you are smoking speculatrix.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150838\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I've been doing basically the same thing with my macbook pro from my wife's iTunes. In windows, so I don't see your point. Yes, it's an extension of iTunes, so what?
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The one thing Apple has done with the iPhone and basing it on OSX, they have laid the foundation to build on. Can you imagine in the future an iPhone that runs a mobile version of iWork (word processor, presentation, and soon to be added spreadsheet) and a mobile version of iTunes so you can purchase and download music, TV shows, and music wirelessly. Then think about integrating all of this with your .Mac account accessible wirelessly so that you can store and retrieve your iWork documents there, store and retrieve your iTunes media there, etc, etc, etc.
You are citing our dream.
And some demos for such an - open source - foundation are already available. If you don't believe: http://www.quantum-step.com/download/sourc...AppKit/Sources/ (http://www.quantum-step.com/download/sources/mySTEP/AppKit/Sources/)
I get the impression we should rename "QuantumSTEP" to something like "OpenApplePhone" - but that raises trademark issues...
For those who still do not know QuantumSTEP: it is a version of GNUstep (i.e. open Cocoa) using an X11 server plus an application suite that runs on either a Mac or a Linux PDA. The application suite already includes prototypes of a POP3/IMAP Mail client, a WebKit based Browser, Calculator, Calendar, AddressBook, Navigator, Music/Video/Photo recorder, etc.
And, you can write Cocoa-Apps in Xcode that are "Universal Binary".
.Mac integration is only a matter of having a WebDAV client on the Zaurus/Linux.
Demos run on the Zaurus and we are only waiting to get OpenMoko devices to really have a demo on a mobile phone.
Please also take a look at the application suite of QuantumSTEP:
http://www.quantum-step.com/swi/index.php (http://www.quantum-step.com/swi/index.php)
And at the FOSDEM presentation from last year: http://xdev.org/fosdem2006/QuantumSTEP-Fos...2006-Slides.pdf (http://xdev.org/fosdem2006/QuantumSTEP-Fosdem-2006-Slides.pdf)
Let me ask one question openly:
Why is everybody just complaining that the iPhone is closed and asking to have an open OS X phone from Apple instead of supporting a project that is already here for 3 years?
Only a small handful of people appears to be recognizing or supporting QuantumSTEP so far. Is it required to have the marketing and development muscles (i.e. budget and brand) of Apple? Or having the polished look of all images/icons/screenshots?
Or is it sort of a fandom issue - not technology? (the 160ppi display of the iPhone is also praised as the best you can get - a C3200 or N770 has 220ppi)
-- hns
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nope this will definetly not replace my zaurus 100%. It's just an overpriced phone.
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/01/12/0430200.shtml (http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/01/12/0430200.shtml)
so says steve jobs...NO 3rd party ALLOWED!
It is a piece of crap....read posts. sprint and at&t will not allow such nonsense to go around unless they make money......HAHA!
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so says steve jobs...NO 3rd party ALLOWED!
Well, I stand corrected. Personally, I think that's a significant blunder on Apple's part. I can see not letting joe-hacker toss just any old piece of Objective-C code on this thing. But a nice safe Widget sandbox would add huge potential to Apple's phone without the risk of compromising system integrity.
Oh well, my Cingular contract doesn't run out until year end, so that should be enough time for the clever engineers in Korea and Japan to start cranking out more flexible knock-offs
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I can see not letting joe-hacker toss just any old piece of Objective-C code on this thing. But a nice safe Widget sandbox would add huge potential to Apple's phone without the risk of compromising system integrity.
What makes the real difference to toss just an old piece of Objective-C on a MacBook with Wireless connectivity? The risk of compromizing system integrity (especially the networks) is 100% the same... Or are the Mobile networks inherently less safe than let's say DSL?
-- hns
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What makes the real difference to toss just an old piece of Objective-C on a MacBook with Wireless connectivity? The risk of compromizing system integrity (especially the networks) is 100% the same... Or are the Mobile networks inherently less safe than let's say DSL?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150934\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
it depends on the partitioning of the cpus and the gsm system - gsm is encrypted with secret keys which are stored locked in the sim also using secrets... and the network stack has to be very reliable to prevent it screwing up the radio connection for all phones on the same base station.
thus you can't allow untrusted code to access any data used by the gsm stack. take a look at the pocketpenguin forums to see more about this.
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so says steve jobs...NO 3rd party ALLOWED!
Well, I stand corrected. Personally, I think that's a significant blunder on Apple's part. I can see not letting joe-hacker toss just any old piece of Objective-C code on this thing. But a nice safe Widget sandbox would add huge potential to Apple's phone without the risk of compromising system integrity.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
This will be a deal breaker for me as well (and I also stand corrected). The fact that Jobs went out of his way in NY Times to point out that iPhone should not be thought of as computer replacement is extremely disapointing.
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thus you can't allow untrusted code to access any data used by the gsm stack. take a look at the pocketpenguin forums to see more about this.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150946\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
That is only an issue if you run both on the same processor in a single operating system. If you have two (an application processor with any OS and a module) - what stops you from using a serial interface and GSM 07.07 AT commands to communicate between both?
In that case, it is the same as plugging a GSM card into your Zaurus. You can see the interface, send command etc. but can't get anything in or out of the module which is not allowed by the protected firmware of the GSM module. And, you can't tear down southern california's networks...
And, for hitting a price point of 499-599$, the cost difference between a single and two processor architecture can't be the real argument... And, finally a single processor architecture would mean that Apple has developed a full GSM stack to run as a Mach device driver. This is much too complex to get through FCC
-- hns
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And, for hitting a price point of 499-599$, the cost difference between a single and two processor architecture can't be the real argument... And, finally a single processor architecture would mean that Apple has developed a full GSM stack to run as a Mach device driver. This is much too complex to get through FCC
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150964\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
true, I think it unlikely that the GSM side doesn't run on a separate processor, but there might still be some level of trust, e.g. firmware upload into it, some shared memory.
however, I think it'll be mainly to ensure that the applications installed have to use only cingular services and itunes for music stores etc.
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so says steve jobs...NO 3rd party ALLOWED!
Well, I stand corrected. Personally, I think that's a significant blunder on Apple's part. I can see not letting joe-hacker toss just any old piece of Objective-C code on this thing. But a nice safe Widget sandbox would add huge potential to Apple's phone without the risk of compromising system integrity.
Oh well, my Cingular contract doesn't run out until year end, so that should be enough time for the clever engineers in Korea and Japan to start cranking out more flexible knock-offs
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm debating about this item. I might still get it as a new phone for replacing my Siemens s56. If it has bluetooth, ill probably be fine. I will not use the idiotic services they provide though. It is totally ridiculous.
I am still waiting for qtopia's green phone.
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What makes the real difference to toss just an old piece of Objective-C on a MacBook with Wireless connectivity? The risk of compromizing system integrity (especially the networks) is 100% the same... Or are the Mobile networks inherently less safe than let's say DSL?
The "network integrity" thing is a likely a red-herring meant to distract from the real issues at hand. Note that in the NYT article Jobs did say you will be able to add applications and those apps may be developed by 3rd parties, but the only way to get them will be to buy them from Apple.
The optimist in me says that Apple wants to be able to exert some control over software quality. If my "cool iPhone game" app crashes the phone's UI, user's aren't likely to figure out it's my app, they'll just say that the iPhone is flakey. This is already true for Windows Mobile based phones. A lot of the instability that Windows Mobile has been blamed for is really a result of poorly written applications.
Now, we could go into the huge philosophical debate about how a "good" OS should protect apps from harming the system or each other. But reality is that in an embedded device like this, OS software is usually forced to cut corners to get adequate performance. I can easily write a Zarus app that will render Qtopia unusable. Sure the OS keeps running, but what good does that do me if I can't switch out of the broken application? Most people don't want to telnet to their phone and "kill -9" the offending process
The pesimist in me says this is a way for Apple to guarantee they get a cut of 3rd-party software revenues. Once everyone has an iPhone that wants one, how do you continue generating revenue? With computers, technology advances force upgrades. Not always true with things like phones. Getting a cut of app software purchases and upgrades would help fill the gap between initial purchase and replacement.
Reality is that both are probably true to some degree. We'll have to wait to see how this plays out, but I'm much less enthusiastic than I was a couple days ago.
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most manufacterers mant to move to the radio and main proc in one (ie radio as a thread in a realtime OS and the user OS in another thread) because of the huge cost savings, it wouldnt suprise me if they did that with the iphone as it would then give them a significant price advantage, i belive motoralla just released a phone that did that only the real time OS was linux
anyway GSM has been cracked AND artificially weakened, and as for turning the phone into a high tech jammer, well lets just say there are cheaper ways
i would say he has valid points about taking down the network but that says alot for how much he trusts this mobile OS in my opinion and what the techs working on the device know about gsm
i mean everyone knows tha petrol + mobilephone tower = cheap way to "crash" the network
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most manufacterers mant to move to the radio and main proc in one (ie radio as a thread in a realtime OS and the user OS in another thread) because of the huge cost savings,
Well, there are phonessold for less than 100EUR complete. These have definitively a single processor. And, you can get a complete GSM module for around 30 EUR. So, what is the huge cost saving? Probably 5-10 EUR.
If they are able to spend 512MB flash for OSX, they can also spend 5-10 EUR for a separate module (which also saves several Mio EUR of integrating a GSM stack into any kernel).
So, I am quite sure they have a separate, dedicated and protected processor for GSM.
BTW: I should mention that QuantumSTEP for a Zaurus needs only approx. 20 MByte of user space files. So, by removing Qt from a Zaurus, a QuantumSTEP ROM would not need any extra memory...
What I still do not have any idea about the processor they use. It seems not to be an Intel x86. Most likely an ARM (as most other phones). But: OSX is inherently very floating-point intensive for doing all the nice graphics. So, is there an ARM version with integrated FPU?
-- hns
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i mean everyone knows tha petrol + mobilephone tower = cheap way to "crash" the network
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=151156\")
indeed, a fire wiped out commercial broadcast radio for large areas round where I lived:
[a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmitter_Peterborough]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmitter_Peterborough[/url]
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If they are able to spend 512MB flash for OSX, they can also spend 5-10 EUR for a separate module (which also saves several Mio EUR of integrating a GSM stack into any kernel).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151185\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I used to work in mobile radio and paging systems, where they would happily spend $10,000 on engineers time to save a few cents on the assembly cost each pager (making 100,000 PER WEEK), but "waste" 20 cents on higher performing components to increase battery life by 10%.
I think you misunderestimate how serious companies are at cost reduction. OK, just US$5 for a module. Multiple that by one million phones manufactured. Are you telling me that US$5M isn't a lot of money? Then, add on the costs of additional circuit board and testing, the module becomes perhaps US$15 by the time the iphone reaches the shelves, maybe pushing the iphone into a different price bracket, stopping the notoriously fickle consumer from buying it - even if it dents sales by a few percent, that's a lot of money... all for something that the average consumer won't understand!
So, you ask, how come they'll put in 512MB flash instead of 256 and miss a few things off? Because the marketing men look at the competition and say it needs a certain minimal specification to be "worth" the price point of X.
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thanks for that link, it lead to some good info (i have been researching this topic alot lately
BTW: I should mention that QuantumSTEP for a Zaurus needs only approx. 20 MByte of user space files. So, by removing Qt from a Zaurus, a QuantumSTEP ROM would not need any extra memory...
BTW: I should mention that Ncurses for a Zaurus needs only approx. 200 KByte of user space files. So, by removing Qt from a Zaurus, a Ncurses ROM would not need any extra memory...
i only say because thats what i use give me "abook" (its an app) anyday
i thoght they said a samsung processor, most of the newer ARMs have an option and i know the zune has a fps, would kick arse to play quake on the zune (same chipset i am using at without the graghics accelerator)
by the sounds of its its a new graghical API, hence why they want people to do widgets instead, that way you get cross platform compatibility without doing somthing stupid like .net CF 2 on winCE (i mean could they make that update ANY larger) that way they can just reuse the web browser code instead of having 2 libries so less space used (not that they need to save space)
im still of the opinion that this isnt a top end phone like job makes out, but thats a bit OT
i have hated the flash +256MB = + $100 equation (or simmilar) because i know how much the chips cost and how much work it is, i really disagree with that practice. or the DVR large capacity drive thats 20GB larger yet costs more than a 400GB drive for the upgrade
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...so when is the penguin mock up coming?
I think btw that we ptretty much aren't expecting the i-phone to be the next Z.
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true but knowing apple i was expecting some nice hardware that could be hacked, personally its a bit of a let down however it does seem to be in thier "keep it simple" ideas
mmm, mock up. i would love to see it. i would say about the time i get windows XP playing nice uner a VM, it just dosent like my system unless its virtual. hoping to work on it tonight but at the very least i expect about 10 pages of notes and diagrams tonight (mainly PCB layout)
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here's a marketing video for what the iPhone can do
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/13/nbc-and-npr...e-iphone-humor/ (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/13/nbc-and-npr-feature-iphone-humor/)
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i have hated the flash +256MB = + $100 equation (or simmilar) because i know how much the chips cost and how much work it is, i really disagree with that practice. or the DVR large capacity drive thats 20GB larger yet costs more than a 400GB drive for the upgrade
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=151210\")
read [a href=\"http://www.amazon.co.uk/Undercover-Economist-Tim-Harford/dp/0349119856/sr=1-2/qid=1168856633/ref=sr_1_2/203-7780877-5344761?ie=UTF8&s=books]The Undercover Economist[/url] for some good explanations of why product pricing can be quite peculiar when you understand the production processes.
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thanks for that
just relised why cinglar dosent like third party apps (after reading my ealier comments and linux user and developer, the british have the best mags)
remeber how i said that gsm encryption is weak, now imagine you have acsess to the baseband and can chose which band you want to listen to rather than the one you were allocated. insta phone tap without the hugely exspensive phone tap system and cheap enough that your average consumer can buy it
ideally you would want the baseband to be on the same chip and the code but after reading a bit about it it wouldnt supprise me if it is a baseband issue, after doing a bit of research the "baseband issue" seems to be almost a religos thing with the telcos, they dont want it open sourced, which is a problem for a certin open source project i know
i always had a laugh when i see nokia equipment advertised with "features easy wire tapping facilities for goverment complince" as a "feature"
then again i might be getting paranoid in my young age
btw had a good laugh at the you tube thing
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But reality is that in an embedded device like this, OS software is usually forced to cut corners to get adequate performance.
Psion managed to create an ultra stable OS with their Epoc using far fewer resources, both in terms of manpower and R&D (they are a tiny company compared to the likes of M$, Apple, Sharp etc) and hardware (Epoc16 runs on an 8086 compatible with as little as 128KB ram/1MB rom). Its "secret" ingredient is that it had a hardware support for memory management which stopped misbehaving programs from trashing memory outside its allocated memory space.
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remeber how i said that gsm encryption is weak, now imagine you have acsess to the baseband and can chose which band you want to listen to rather than the one you were allocated. insta phone tap without the hugely exspensive phone tap system and cheap enough that your average consumer can buy it
ideally you would want the baseband to be on the same chip and the code but after reading a bit about it it wouldnt supprise me if it is a baseband issue, after doing a bit of research the "baseband issue" seems to be almost a religos thing with the telcos, they dont want it open sourced, which is a problem for a certin open source project i know
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151225\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
it's not *quite* that simple. AIUI, each gsm telephone link to the base station has its session own encryption key, the snag is that the negotiation of that session key is weakened because the primary key is weakened from 64 to 56 bits as gov'ts demanded that the 64 bits was too strong and told telcos to make eight bits zero, thus making it possible to brute force the key with the available computing power at the time.
outside the EU, they might even use smaller keys, you just don't know, not unless you had the telco's private key to unlock the SIM and get the network operator's key out of it!
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i wouldnt say that OS guys cut corners, considering that nearly everyone outsources phone OS dev to symbian, linux/windriver/montavista, wince
i think its more a case that you make do with the hardware you are given and i think that holds true with the epoc example you mentioned
the new arm chips are great and feature rich, they have had a mmu for a long time but it can be an advantage somtimes to turn that stuff off, shock gasp horror i know but i have heard of people turning off the mmu and cache in arm chips so that the timings are predictable which for dsp work with a base band processor is critical
i think we are really forgetting that embbeded development is really a diffrent world and is driven by diffrent market forces, in the mobile phone world those market forces are the telcos, they can say what is and isnt allowed on thier networks and cingular and the others relise this. i also belive that they relise the customers would be willing to rip thier throghts out over somthing they cant fix due to the botched and weakened implemintations (thank you nsa)
in relation to the iphone, its market angel is somthing i simply cannot fathom, i see it but i dont understand it, but i say the same about windows. its alien to me and some of thier postions are plain wierd however i belive for them to come out on top they have made very correct decissions at the cost of the user, though they will never know it and its not that bad because the top can be lonly and complicated (try explaining how thi internet works to someone)
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If they are able to spend 512MB flash for OSX, they can also spend 5-10 EUR for a separate module (which also saves several Mio EUR of integrating a GSM stack into any kernel).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151185\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I used to work in mobile radio and paging systems, where they would happily spend $10,000 on engineers time to save a few cents on the assembly cost each pager (making 100,000 PER WEEK), but "waste" 20 cents on higher performing components to increase battery life by 10%.
I think you misunderestimate how serious companies are at cost reduction. OK, just US$5 for a module. Multiple that by one million phones manufactured. Are you telling me that US$5M isn't a lot of money? Then, add on the costs of additional circuit board and testing, the module becomes perhaps US$15 by the time the iphone reaches the shelves, maybe pushing the iphone into a different price bracket, stopping the notoriously fickle consumer from buying it - even if it dents sales by a few percent, that's a lot of money... all for something that the average consumer won't understand!
So, you ask, how come they'll put in 512MB flash instead of 256 and miss a few things off? Because the marketing men look at the competition and say it needs a certain minimal specification to be "worth" the price point of X.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151195\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, I know how much they look for cost savings (I have worked for a mobile phone company for some time). But there is always a tradeoff being made between BOM savings, development cost to leverage the BOM saving (which depends of course on expected number of devices being sold), and timing. If you can save 5 EUR by invesing 5 Mio EUR into R&D (which is roughly 30 man years), the break even is at 1 Mio units. But if it needs 1 year to develop everything, you better spend the 5 EUR to finish the product earlier. You can save the potential savings for the next generation.
-- hns
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This is an interesting read in terms of the 3rd part "closed" issue. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech....D286B4D23C.html (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/D79522A8-B27A-486C-84AC-17D286B4D23C.html)
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[img]http://i10.tinypic.com/313gkmb.gif\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
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iPhone has competition already: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/11/iphone-...arated-at-birth (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/11/iphone-and-lg-ke850-separated-at-birth)
Yikes!
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Is iphone's screen better or worse than Zaurus' CG Silicone technology? (not pixelwise comparison but LCD material quality)