OESF Portables Forum

General Forums => New products and alternatives => Topic started by: ZDevil on February 19, 2007, 05:59:43 am

Title: Em・one
Post by: ZDevil on February 19, 2007, 05:59:43 am
Just learned about this upcoming Windows smartphone  

EM・ONE

Source: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yamadaatmn/20070219/1171876371 (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yamadaatmn/20070219/1171876371)

[img]http://f.hatena.ne.jp/images/fotolife/y/yamadaatmn/20070219/20070219181238.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

Basic spec:
Release date: 31 March 2007
Operating system: Windows Mobile 5.0
Processor: Marvell PXA270 520MHz
Display: 4.1 inches W-VGA (800×480) 16-bit color ASV lcd; Portrait<->Landscape modes ; touchscreen
Graphic chip: NVIDIA GoForceTM5500
Memory: Flash 512MB + SDRAM 128MB
Card: mini SD slot x 1
Connectivity: HSDPA 3.6Mbps ; IEEE802.11b/g ; Bluetooth; miniUSB (2.0?)  
Input: qwerty keyboard, stylus
Audio: built-in speaker (stereo), microphone
Video-out: RGB adapter (sold separately)
Dimension: 140(W)×70(H)×18.9(D)mm
Weight: 250g
Camera: 131 mega pixel CMOS w/ video recording
Battery duration: about 4 hours

(Is this the successor of W-Zero3 by Sharp?)

... Looks super cool! If this can run Linux ....
Title: Em・one
Post by: danboid on February 19, 2007, 11:12:43 am
dumb dumb dumb dumb

stoopid stoopid  stooooooooooooooopid Sharp!

Why oh why oh why? Somebody please explain the current sick fad of this slide out keyboard form factor?! I can summarise my extreme disappointment in 2 words

CLAMSHELL

LINUX!!!

PS

Also, you should hire sash, Meanie, Mickey, Koen, hrw, Maslovsky already and pay me too
Title: Em・one
Post by: kahm on February 19, 2007, 11:18:35 am
Holy hell in a handbasket!

Why, oh why couldn't Sharp put those guts in a clamshell for us ;_;

That's a very nicely spec'd device, indeed...
Title: Em・one
Post by: cybersphinx on February 19, 2007, 12:05:11 pm
Quote
Camera: 131 mega pixel CMOS w/ video recording[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154643\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Correction: 1.31 mega pixel camera
Title: Em・one
Post by: ogrefish on February 19, 2007, 12:40:02 pm
Nice one man, i dunno how i missed your post..good stuff
Title: Em・one
Post by: Antikx on February 19, 2007, 12:42:44 pm
Ya... I want Linux on that.
Title: Em・one
Post by: danboid on February 19, 2007, 12:43:40 pm
If they could release this in clamshell form with a larger internal flash drive (4GB+) and an ARM11 CPU then we will have our Zaurus successor. These hi-res screens are great but they get scratched so easily without the protection the clamshell design brings. The clamshell design also brings the ability to adjust the angle of the screen. A potentially fantastic machine wasted on a trite excuse for an OS and form factor
Title: Em・one
Post by: cvmiller on February 19, 2007, 03:08:08 pm
Quote
If they could release this in clamshell form with a larger internal flash drive (4GB+) and an ARM11 CPU then we will have our Zaurus successor. These hi-res screens are great but they get scratched so easily without the protection the clamshell design brings. The clamshell design also brings the ability to adjust the angle of the screen. A potentially fantastic machine wasted on a trite excuse for an OS and form factor
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Perhaps I just need to get my hands on a clam shell to see the benefits. I own a SL-5500 and a SL-6000, and I love them. I use an IR keyboard and can touch type. The clam shell (pick any of them) keyboards look too small to touch type. And if they are, I don't see the point. (yes the SL series have a thumb keyboard, and it is S-L-O-W).

Anyone live in Ottawa (Canada) who will let me touch (and hold) their wonderful clam shell Zaurus?

Craig...
Title: Em・one
Post by: desertrat on February 19, 2007, 05:22:09 pm
Quote
I use an IR keyboard and can touch type. The clam shell (pick any of them) keyboards look too small to touch type. And if they are, I don't see the point.
No you cannot touch type on the the clam shell keyboards. If you're holding the machine then you use your thumbs to type, if you have the machine on a stable surface then you can peck at it with your fingers. The advantage of an onboard keyboard is that you can use it anywhere. When I'm travelling on train/bus it's pretty difficult to whip out an IR keyboard and start typing. Carrying around an IR keyboard also presents its own logistics problem.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Drake01 on February 19, 2007, 07:03:27 pm
Quote
Battery duration: about 4 hours
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154643\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yikes!
Title: Em・one
Post by: Ling on February 19, 2007, 07:21:06 pm
Quote
No you cannot touch type on the the clam shell keyboards.


OMG, you are making me recall the never ending debate on the HP 200LX BBS with those glue sniffing idiots who would swear to their grave that they were touch typing on their 200LX. The PSION's were probably some of the nicer small keyboards and even they would not even come close to touch typing.  
Title: Em・one
Post by: brashley46 on February 19, 2007, 11:53:21 pm
Quote
Quote
I use an IR keyboard and can touch type. The clam shell (pick any of them) keyboards look too small to touch type. And if they are, I don't see the point.
No you cannot touch type on the the clam shell keyboards. If you're holding the machine then you use your thumbs to type, if you have the machine on a stable surface then you can peck at it with your fingers. The advantage of an onboard keyboard is that you can use it anywhere. When I'm travelling on train/bus it's pretty difficult to whip out an IR keyboard and start typing. Carrying around an IR keyboard also presents its own logistics problem.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
On a relatively stable surface I can use 4 fingers and a thumb pretty quick. The keyboard layout is just different enough from North American standard Qwerty that it's best to slow down anyway.
Craig, if you're an sf fan, I'll have my C860 at the Ad Astra convention in Toronto the first weekend of March ... it's been a couple decades since I got down to Ottawa though.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Da_Blitz on February 20, 2007, 05:19:55 am
that goforce chipset sounds nice, and the vga out could be handy

keyboard wise i think the mebrane ones we see suck but it is small.

i dont really see the advantage the clamshell has over the slide mechnism. however if you addeda ahinge to what they are offering (so you can slide it up to the top then fold it down like a clamshell) then i would be sold on the idea
Title: Em・one
Post by: Snappy on February 20, 2007, 09:54:29 am
I'm kinda with Da Blitz on the sliding thingie, that I cannot really see an advantage that the clamshell has over the sliding mechanism when both are ultimately thumbing devices.

The few times I positioned my c1000 in laptop mode, the screen slowly snapped to the full open position, with a loud resounding 'click'!

If there is some way to get it in Asia, I might give this emOne a go ... since my c1000 is out of action and I'm ... ahhh ... really finding the 5500 trying ...

The 4.1" screen is tasty as well ... and I agree that if that was running linux, it would have been perfect!

Options, options ....
Title: Em・one
Post by: tg on February 20, 2007, 10:47:33 am
Ok - so let's review.

Sharp managed to f**k up the best two things it ever did which are clam handheld with Linux and in return for taking that away we are rewarded with Windows Mobile and stupid camera?

I'm sorry but all the memory and connectivity options in the world can not compensate - I'm soo pissed I hope Sharp goes bancrupt (I also feel like throwing my Aquos through the window).
Title: Em・one
Post by: InSearchOf on February 20, 2007, 10:53:17 am
Quote
I'm soo pissed I hope Sharp goes bancrupt (I also feel like throwing my Aquos through the window).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

If and when you decide to throw... make sure I'm out side of your windows with a net...

Late
Title: Em・one
Post by: desertrat on February 20, 2007, 11:16:06 am
From the other "em" thread:

Quote
there is 4 phone OS's on the market and only one can advertise "crasihng" as a feature
M$ is committed to provide the same user experience on mobile devices as on the desktop.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Antikx on February 20, 2007, 03:10:45 pm
There IS something respectable about consistency.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Snappy on February 20, 2007, 07:18:14 pm
Quote
From the other "em" thread:

Quote
there is 4 phone OS's on the market and only one can advertise "crasihng" as a feature
M$ is committed to provide the same user experience on mobile devices as on the desktop.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154793\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Guys, which version of windows are you using that is crashing?

btw, I also use ubuntu /w xgl beryl in dual-boot mode with WinXP /pro.
Title: Em・one
Post by: harvell on February 20, 2007, 09:02:00 pm
Probably the one that has the rootkit....
Title: Em・one
Post by: Da_Blitz on February 20, 2007, 09:44:53 pm
there has honestlly never been an OS i have used that i could not crash consistantly

linux is no excepition (nvidia 3d drivers with a xen PAE kernel, works everytime 3d kicks in )

however the windows OS's i would crash without intending to do so. for refrence i was talking about windows mobile 5.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Antikx on February 20, 2007, 10:15:04 pm
Quote
there has honestlly never been an OS i have used that i could not crash consistantly

linux is no excepition (nvidia 3d drivers with a xen PAE kernel, works everytime 3d kicks in )

however the windows OS's i would crash without intending to do so. for refrence i was talking about windows mobile 5.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
And the difference between M$ OS's  and *NIX OS's is that you can usually fix the *NIX OS but will quite often have to reinstall a M$ OS. The popularity of M$ OS's has created a whole market for wonderful little pieces of software that fill up the registry and system directories (which doesn't help). If you are careful about what you install XP can be a very stable OS.
But we digress.
Title: Em・one
Post by: desertrat on February 21, 2007, 12:22:43 pm
Quote
there has honestlly never been an OS i have used that i could not crash consistantly
How do you mean by "consistently"? If you mean you can make it crash whenever you want, then that's a whole lot different to windoze where it crashes whenever I don't want.

The trouble with windoze crashes is that more often than not it takes out the whole system.

Quote
Guys, which version of windows are you using that is crashing?
All versions up to and including Win98SE, NT and XP (I skipped ME, 2K). Admittedly with XP it crashes less often, but then this XP box is only used for playing BG2 and has only the bare essentials on it (AVG antivirus and ZoneAlarm). Back when I was still using windoze on a regular basis I would often switch on my monitor in the morning to find that Win98 had died from the BSOD (I leave my machines on 24/7). With linux I could have uptimes of weeks and months (usually depending on how often I update the kernel).
Title: Em・one
Post by: speculatrix on February 21, 2007, 12:39:09 pm
Quote
I'm sorry but all the memory and connectivity options in the world can not compensate - I'm soo pissed I hope Sharp goes bancrupt (I also feel like throwing my Aquos through the window).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

what's wrong with Sharp Aquos products? I have been contemplating buying one of their Aquos TVs... only I suppose I'd find it'd be a suddenly discontinued model and the new model would have a different OS, there's be no firmware updates, they'd suddenly stop selling them in my country and technical support would be cancelled...
Title: Em・one
Post by: tg on February 21, 2007, 01:47:22 pm
Quote
Quote
I'm sorry but all the memory and connectivity options in the world can not compensate - I'm soo pissed I hope Sharp goes bancrupt (I also feel like throwing my Aquos through the window).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

what's wrong with Sharp Aquos products? I have been contemplating buying one of their Aquos TVs... only I suppose I'd find it'd be a suddenly discontinued model and the new model would have a different OS, there's be no firmware updates, they'd suddenly stop selling them in my country and technical support would be cancelled...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154895\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Absolutely nothing wrong with Aquos LCD - great product. I was just letting off some steam since I'm so angry with Sharp due to them replacing wonderful Zaurus with that POS that I went as far as trashing another (wonderfull) Sharp product.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Snappy on February 21, 2007, 07:38:22 pm
Quote
there has honestlly never been an OS i have used that i could not crash consistantly

linux is no excepition (nvidia 3d drivers with a xen PAE kernel, works everytime 3d kicks in )

however the windows OS's i would crash without intending to do so. for refrence i was talking about windows mobile 5.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I see ...   ... Yes, Windows Mobile 5 ... well, it plain sucks ... even hardcore dell axim users swear on it! Some even downgraded to an earlier version just to have a stabler OS.

Quote
All versions up to and including Win98SE, NT and XP (I skipped ME, 2K). Admittedly with XP it crashes less often, but then this XP box is only used for playing BG2 and has only the bare essentials on it (AVG antivirus and ZoneAlarm). Back when I was still using windoze on a regular basis I would often switch on my monitor in the morning to find that Win98 had died from the BSOD (I leave my machines on 24/7). With linux I could have uptimes of weeks and months (usually depending on how often I update the kernel).

Oh come on, Win98 is like almost 10 years old! I have to agree that Win98 was pretty flaky ... but at the same time, the whole thing with IRQ and hardware was a nightmare! If you take a linux distro from 1998 ... I think there's a high chance that it was a challenge to install and get all the drivers working anyway.

I use WindowsXP on a daily basis, Pro in the office, Home at ... well, home! ... and neither of them crashes on me. And when some crazy app crashes, I just kill it via taskmanager. The only time my notebook BSOD was when my ram died. I promptly replaced it and I'm back in business. (Incidentally, I just sent the ram back to newegg last month and got a *FULL* refund for it! hohoho)

Notably, I don't overclock my system. Actually, I underclock it to conserve on battery life.  There was a time when I would overclock my system (cpu, ram, gpu etc) like mad, and yes, Windows (98 if I don't recall wrong) was very very unstable.
Title: Em・one
Post by: maximusz on February 21, 2007, 11:16:34 pm
This looks soooo coooool - except for the Windows crap on it. Here is a nice reveiw

http://www.origamiportal.com/modules/news/...php?storyid=321 (http://www.origamiportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=321)

It will be interesting to see a hands on review in March and to port this to Linux...... I know that this forum community is more then capable
Title: Em・one
Post by: tg on February 22, 2007, 08:13:22 am
Quote
This looks soooo coooool - except for the Windows crap on it. Here is a nice reveiw

http://www.origamiportal.com/modules/news/...php?storyid=321 (http://www.origamiportal.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=321)

It will be interesting to see a hands on review in March and to port this to Linux...... I know that this forum community is more then capable
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

There is no doubt that the community is capable but the question is who in the linux community will be motivated to spend any development time on this?
I think most developers on these forums by far prefer clam design so as soon as there is a new clam device out there (linux or not) that is where the focus will go - until then developers will probably continue to work on Zaurus.
If you really like this device the easiest (although not cheap) thing to do is buy OQO which gives you similar screen+keyboard design but also access to real linux distributions (x86 processor).
Title: Em・one
Post by: daniel3000 on February 22, 2007, 08:22:52 am
If this device is really as good as it is advertised, people will develop Linux kernels and drivers for it.

The only question is:
Will the device stay on market long enough for these people to produce good results within the life cycle of it, so it will be useful to other users, too?
With pdaXrom etc. we slowly get into the "very stable and usable" stage, but unfortunately, the hardware is not produced anymore.

daniel
Title: Em・one
Post by: tg on February 22, 2007, 10:00:06 am
Quote
If this device is really as good as it is advertised, people will develop Linux kernels and drivers for it.

The only question is:
Will the device stay on market long enough for these people to produce good results within the life cycle of it, so it will be useful to other users, too?
With pdaXrom etc. we slowly get into the "very stable and usable" stage, but unfortunately, the hardware is not produced anymore.

daniel
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154979\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Exactly - and it took a while to get to this stable and usable stage (and that is after starting out with device that already had some type of linux on it). This is why I find it extremely unlikely that anyone will spend a couple of years on this to make it work well - by then it will already be obsolete (and still there is an issue of no clam which I think people on these forums care about).
Title: Em・one
Post by: ZDevil on February 22, 2007, 02:01:42 pm
(Lifting an amorphous gear in one hand, sinking into the pocket with another hand; chanting solemnly)
To clam, or not to clam: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the hand to suffer
The nuts and bolts of outrageous innovation,
Or to spend a fortune on a sea of penguins,
And by opposing end them?
Title: Em・one
Post by: gr8ful on February 22, 2007, 02:21:26 pm
LOL

That's clever, really clever.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Antikx on February 22, 2007, 08:38:39 pm
Title: Em・one
Post by: speculatrix on February 26, 2007, 06:20:24 am
copied from the closed alternate thread:
Quote
The only new novelty that I can find (Kudos to Sharp for still having some design chops that they started with the Zaurus) is the Dual Sliding thingie on a smartphone.
(or maybe I have missed any such earlier devices)
Here are some nice photos of the dual sliding action.
http://www.engadget.com/photos/sharps-em-o...nd-wifi/162942/ (http://www.engadget.com/photos/sharps-em-one-a-dual-sliding-pocketpc-with-hsdpa-and-wifi/162942/)
(So sharp really did ditch the Zaurus line in favour of the Pocket PC platform based PDA/Smartphone combo)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154676\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I believe the Nokia N95 has a two-way slider - slide the back down relative to front to get number pad, up to get media controls.

the em-one is pretty nifty.
Title: Em・one
Post by: ZDevil on April 07, 2007, 10:21:25 am
Can't help but drool over the demo ...

http://www.sharp.co.jp/em/s01sh/ (http://www.sharp.co.jp/em/s01sh/)
Title: Em・one
Post by: gr8ful on May 18, 2007, 05:44:41 pm
Here's a hands-on mini review from a poster over at Internet Tablet Talk (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5804).  He seems to be impressed with the device compared with the Nokia N800 & 770:

I just got back from a 2 week business trip in Japan, and was able to see the launch of the Sharp EM-ONE. There was a massive display and marketing push at the huge Yodabashi Camera store in Akihabara. Some observations...unfortunately my camera was back at the hotel.
(Note: I had a 770 and currently have an N800)

- The form factor feels better than the N800. The N800 to me is too slick due to the rounded edges (I also prefer the feel of the 770 over the N800). The weight, width and height feel similar to the N800, but is thicker due to the keyboard. I didn't find it to be too thick and could easily slip into a similar pocket as the N800.

1) The screen is comparable to the N800, and the NVidia video chipset is fast. Videos played full screen (using WM6) with no stuttering. Photos looked good.

2) Apps launched fast. Overall, I think the CPU felt faster than the N800.

3) Windows Mobile 5 is the OS. In my opinion, this is a much better mobile OS than the current version of Maemo. As stated on ITT, there are so many details with the the N800 interface and apps that just don't work correctly.

4) ActiveSync - WM5 syncs with Outlook and I can have all my calendars and mail there.

5) The browser was fast and the experience was similar to the N800. I didn't get to try YouTube videos though.

6) Full QWERTY Hardware Keyboard. There is an on-screen keyboard, but the vertical sliding keyboard was pretty nice to use and easy to type on.

7) 1.3 Megapixel camera. Sliding the keyboard horizontal turns the unit into a 1.3MP camera. It worked well and the pictures were not bad.

Basically that Sharp device looks like a N800 done right : no more messy and clunky Linux interface, real video playback capabilities, much better text input.
Title: Em・one
Post by: Ragnorok on May 18, 2007, 11:07:28 pm
- Not sure I like miniSD as the only aux storage option, nor even the fact that it's a phone.  Better to have BT and a dedicated phone in your pocket for link-up than try to stuff everything in one device.  In the US that locks you to a carrier ... big black mark.
- That keyboard looks about goofy as well.  One would be forced to use it like an oversized thumb board.  Bogus.  The clamshell Zs are usable either way, table top or two thumbs, equally well.  Also doesn't mention backlighting on the keys, or I missed it.  I miss that terribly on the Z line, but at least I can position the display to shine on the keys in the dark.  Not so this thing.
- Then it runs Winbloze.  Biggest drawback of all, but if it's flashable that'll be corrected in the long run.
- All in all it looks like something designed for people who don't know what a pocket computer is.  They just want some fancy doo-dad and don't care that their insecure uber-multi-phone is spreading viruses and trojans via an ad-hoc mesh network to hundreds of millions of systems wordwide.
- I'll keep my Linux, thanks...