OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 09, 2004, 05:21:16 pm
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I\'ve been using both the PocketPC and Zaurus and the more I use both, the more I realize how much more advanced the Zaurus is when compared to the other platform.
I was thinking of reviving my website with the objective of educating users on what the Z has to offer.
Looking at how much the prices have gone down, there is a good reason someone might consider the Z.
Some of the ideas I had on advertizing the Z are:
1] A side by side honest comparison of the PPC and the Z
2] A step-by-step guide to would be developers on how to get started on developing for the Z (target audience: Windows developers)
3] Some of the much awaited features of PPC platform if you happen to be aware off are actually laughable! Most of them have already been implemented on the Z!
----On the fly rotation
----Clie style keyboard
----Usable VNC
----Decent FileManager [TreeExplorer is free on the Z and is very pwful]
----Able to edit/View Word/Excel files without losing formatting info (PP
C actually converts Word docs to some smaller format before copying it to the PPC)
What other suggestions do you guys have?
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I think it would be a good idea, but you should also consider (and list) the fact that in some respects Pocket PC is better than the Z (no flames please, I have not joined the dark side ;-)).
Things like:
sync abilities and ease of use/setup.
How polished the apps are (actually this is more a Windows/Linux desktop thing but it might apply).
My point is to make sure your review is not completely one-sided (otherwise people will not pay attention to your opinions).
Si
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I think it would be a good idea, but you should also consider (and list) the fact that in some respects Pocket PC is better than the Z (no flames please, I have not joined the dark side ;-)).
Things like:
sync abilities and ease of use/setup.
How polished the apps are (actually this is more a Windows/Linux desktop thing but it might apply).
My point is to make sure your review is not completely one-sided (otherwise people will not pay attention to your opinions).
Si
Lardman very true. In fact it should help Z users/developers to know where PPC excels and thus can work upon improving that.
It would no way be a MS bashing site. (There are too many sites doing that!)
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If you set this up, message me. I have a sorta detailed comparison of my 5500 and am HP2215 iPAQ. The Z wins, but just barely.
V-Man
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The main problem for me with Palm and Pocket Pc is that they are boring. Period.
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amen
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ppc hand writing recognition is very well done
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This is the kind of stuff which would be interesting for people to read (with some more details and examples, etc.), just as long as it doesn\'t dissolve into some kind of slagging match (started by the other side of course ;-)), and as you say it would allow us to focus on what MS is \'doing right\' and where we can improve.
Go for it.
Si
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I\'ll also need screenshots of pdaX rom and OZ. I have tkc so I can manage that. Will let you guys know when the site is setup. (Thought showing windows users on the choice of roms available is a good idea!)
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How to improve Zaurus
...well rumors claim that Apple may create a PDA (hard disk based). Sharp has some of the best engineers in the world and markets..um..not so well outside of Japan (being VERY charitable here). Rebrand the SLC-860 or its successor with an Apple and sell \'em like hotcakes.
You have a captive market that loves Microsoft alternatives and has recently been dissed by Palm (exiting their Apple support). This is the niche that they failed to find previously.
Linux interoperates very well with OSX via NFS or other technologies. Apple has the hard disk compact enough already in their IPOD. Sounds like synergy to me.
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Rebrand the SLC-860 or its successor with an Apple and sell \'em like hotcakes.
Completely agree... ... if syncing would work well.
Linux interoperates very well with OSX via NFS or other technologies.
Well, that is just file access interoperability. SMB works more or less through USB and WLAN. (But Panther seems not to be bug-free in its SMB integration into the Finder).
What also is deparately needed is data and application interoperability. See my recent poll and the answers in the Mac Issues forum here in the ZUG. Therefore we run a Digital Companion (http://www.dsitri.de/wiki.php?page=DigitalCompanion (http://www.dsitri.de/wiki.php?page=DigitalCompanion)) project working on that issue (independently from Apple & Sharp).
Apple has the hard disk compact enough already in their IPOD. Sounds like synergy to me.
The iPOD disk is not Apple\'s own technology. I think it comes from Toshiba. Others have the same. You can get a 1GByte HD in Compact Flash format from IBM since 2 years and now from Hitachi Storage. Recently they introduced a 4GByte disk as CF. So 4GByte capacity is no magic for all PDAs with CF slot.
-- hns http://www.dstiri.de (http://www.dstiri.de)
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I think the Zaurus needs the following chain out of three things to attract more customers:
Support for Developers =] A strong developer community =] Really good applications.
Problem #1: Support for Developers must be done by the company which sells the hardware platform which is... uhm... Sharp. Which makes this a non-issue Look at all the closed source stuff. SD I can understand because they\'re forced by the SecureDigital consortium. But the other things... libsl, AtiCore, Camera driver, Qtopia 1.5.4 - it\'s bullshit to keep these things closed - it just scares potential developers away.
Problem #2: A strong developer community can only arise when people work together. Which seems not possible - unfortunately. We have a few teams (e.g. the Opie folks and the Cacko team) but most people seem to be individual fighters, i.e. all the clever japenese guys doing programs and kernel patches seldomly work together. And they definitly don\'t care about the rest of the world, i.e. the people working in europe and usa on zaurus stuff, which is very sad.
Problem #3: Good applications can only be created if good APIs are around. To get a good API developers have to work together and peer review and improve stuff. Which leads us right to Problem #2 and forward to Problem #1.
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We have to get used to the fact that Sharp is dead as far as the Z software is concerned. Relying on sharp is no longer an option. We have to continue on what we have. If they release the source that\'ll be great, but don\'t count on it.
Anyone living in Japan who can speak/write Japanese and also is aware of this should write to Sharp Japan on the benefits of releasing the source.
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Sadly, it\'s naive to think that a community can make a tech product more popular when the company behind it doesn\'t care. History bears me out here. There have been plenty of products in the same position with a vocal and loyal fan base but an indifferent company. Examples include Amiga, OS/2, and Newton. In all those cases there was a huge organized community marketing effort, but the product line eventually died anyway. (anyone remember Team OS/2?) and most of those communities were much bigger than the Zaurus.
The only difference between the Zaurus and the aforementioned examples is that part of the Zaurus infrastructure is open source. Open source has slightly different market economics than closed products. IMHO, the people who want to promote the Zaurus and make it more popular need to press this advantage for all its worth. The best way to do that right now is to support the development of OpenZaurus. Having a rock solid completely open replacement ROM, which matches or exceeds the Palm and PocketPC in terms of features and polish would stimulate additional interest in the Zaurus.
Supporting OpenZaurus has an additional benefit. Because so much of OZ is made up of components from projects like Opie which work on other embedded Linux platforms, even if the Zaurus as a product did eventually die, the fruits of development would live on.
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IMHO, the people who want to promote the Zaurus and make it more popular need to press this advantage for all its worth..
That\'s what this thread is all about!
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Sadly, it\'s naive to think that a community can make a tech product more popular when the company behind it doesn\'t care. History bears me out here. There have been plenty of products in the same position with a vocal and loyal fan base but an indifferent company. Examples include Amiga, OS/2, and Newton. In all those cases there was a huge organized community marketing effort, but the product line eventually died anyway. (anyone remember Team OS/2?) and most of those communities were much bigger than the Zaurus.
Actually there are differences as far as OS/2 is concerned. OS/2 was shafted by Microsoft\'s restrictive licensing terms. In those days, OEMs had to pay for a Windows license on every machine sold, even if it was sold with a different OS (i.e OS/2). IBM was also trying to compete with other OEMs selling Windows based PCs. Because IBM was also trying to push OS/2, Microsoft penalised them by charging them significantly higher licenses for Windows. IBM did try to push OS/2 for a number of years, but couldn\'t compete with the popularity of Windows.
Microsoft could only get away with this because of the popularity of Windows in comparison to OS/2. IBM could have probably done a better job of marketing OS/2, but I think that they were totally taken by suprise by Microsoft\'s agressive and somewhat unethical marketing tactics.
Shortly before the release of OS/2 by IBM and Microsoft, during the Windows 1.x days, I was working for a small company developing software for Physicians, the owner of the company decided that we should rewrite our DOS software for OS/2. At the time one had to purchase the OS/2 SDK from Microsoft for $2200, which was a considerable expense for a small company. However Microsoft instead sold us the Windows SDK for under $100, with the promise that when OS/2 was released, we would simply need to recompile our software to be 100% OS/2 compatible. Needless to say that turned out to be less than honest.
I can\'t recall the exact timeline, but OS/2 and Windows 2.x were released sometime thereafter. When OS/2 was released, other than Wordperfect, and Lotus 123, there was very little in the way of 3rd party applications. Windows however was supported by a relatively huge range of 3rd party application along with Word & Excel. I can only surmise that many of the 3rd party developers were conned into developing for Windows like we were. For the average Joe, Windows was clearly the winner, it was cheaper, with tons of available 3rd party apps. For Microsoft, it was a tripple wammy, they established Windows, as well as Word and Excel. It took Lotus & Wordpefect years before they came out with Windows versions of their applications, by which time it was too late.
Up and till this point, OS/2 was a Microsoft and IBM product, so the turnaround by Microsoft must have taken IBM very much by suprise.
The Zaurus is a completely different kettle of fish, Sharp has a wonderful device that people want to buy. Everyone who has seen one of the clamshells has absolutely swooned, and would buy one at a reasonable price from their local electronics store. It just so happens that Sharp doesn\'t want to sell them, advertise them, support them or market them. Are they stupid or just plain arrogant? A small investment in some halfway intelligent staff would pay off hansomely in the long run.
The PDA market is not the OS market of a few years back. Because there are two major players, not one, there is plenty of room for a good product to squeeze in and gain good market share, given support and marketing from the manufacturer.
Clive
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I would say the zaurus is way better than pocket pcs. here is why:
1)it syncs better. the zaurus all i do is drop it in the cradle and hit a botton. with the pocket pc i get all kinds of duplacite things--its terible at syncing.
2)the apps on a ppc all cost money
3)the user interface stinks on the pocket pc. when you click the \"x\" it doesn\'t close the apps it just minimzes them. eventually your ppc crashes and you have to reset.
4)its microsoft
5)the OS is very slow compared to a zaurus or even a palm.
6)the apps on the PPC are installed with exe files on the desktop and trash up your pc with installers.
7)the ppc crashes once a day when playing around and tweaking things.
8)the OS is very un-customizeable
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Here\'s an article on BH on the next version of PPC
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Is_There_a_WM2004 (http://www.brighthand.com/article/Is_There_a_WM2004)
Some snippets:
\"need for Pocket PC developers to add support for VGA (640 by 480 pixels) to their application\"
Zaurus - Check.
\"He also said there will be support for both portrait and landscape modes added to the operating system.\"
Zaurus - Check.
\"will use a new version of Windows Mobile to switch between portrait and landscape on the fly.\"
Zaurus - Check.
\"Though adding higher-resolution screens and dynamic switching of screen orientation are very significant improvements, there has been no hint that Microsoft is going to make the myriad of other changes to the operating system people have been hoping for, like the ability to easily shut down running applications\"
Zaurus - Check.
\'will show developers how to \"take your existing application and prepare it to be orientation aware for portrait, landscape and square devices.\"
Zaurus - *Yawn*
\"Another session, called \"Windows Mobile Development Platform Futures,\" invites attendees to come learn \"what\'s after high resolution and landscape devices\".
It\'s like MS giving a seminar on writing secure apps!
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The best way to do that right now is to support the development of OpenZaurus. Having a rock solid completely open replacement ROM, which matches or exceeds the Palm and PocketPC in terms of features and polish would stimulate additional interest in the Zaurus.
People have brought this up before - they\'ve even brought up the idea of combining forces so as to maximize the zaurus developers... I just don\'t think much has happened in that regard. It\'s a shame - there are so many great features to each fo the ROMs, if the top developers ever decide to collaborate... LOOKOUT! I\'m sure there\'d be some bumping of heads, but the bottom line could potentially knock the socks off the rest, and if open source, live on despite the zaurus\' potential (or lack thereof).
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Boy! Shutting down running applications is a much awaited \'feature\' on the PPC and to be fair, to be able to sync with no hassles is a much awaited feature on the Z.
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Boy! Shutting down running applications is a much awaited \'feature\' on the PPC and to be fair, to be able to sync with no hassles is a much awaited feature on the Z.
Really, it all depends on what you want to sync with! Which ROM to which desktop OS? Again, this is the prob of having many ROMs that all do certain things well... I think that us non-devs are all waiting for ONE ROM to finally be head and shoulders above the others...!
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ONE ROM to rule them all
ONE ROM to find them
ONE ROM to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them
(sorry)
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Fix the sync in OZ and give it a decent mail and browser app and I\'m sold!
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but I think that they were totally taken by suprise by Microsoft\'s agressive and somewhat unethical marketing tactics.
I\'m sure thats what happened at first. But it\'s still IBMs fault for not launching a proper counteroffensive. The fact is there were many political subdivisions in the company, and many top execs at IBM wanted OS/2 to die. A small group of internal executives managed to keep the division alive for a long time, but they never had much support from the rest of the company. I see the Zaurus in a similar position. It doesn\'t really matter that the historical paths that led to the position were different. What matters is that in both cases, you have a company with a great technology that garners loyal support from people who understand the benefits of the technology. But in both cases, the company as a whole does NOT support the small team behind the technology, and as a result, the product sells poorly, becomes a drain on the bottom line, and the bean counters respond to that.
The Zaurus is a completely different kettle of fish, Sharp has a wonderful device that people want to buy. Everyone who has seen one of the clamshells has absolutely swooned, and would buy one at a reasonable price from their local electronics store. It just so happens that Sharp doesn\'t want to sell them, advertise them, support them or market them.
Yup, that was OS/2 in the mid-90s
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I would say the zaurus is way better than pocket pcs
You\'re preaching to the choir here. The problem is the choir is too small.
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I would say the zaurus is way better than pocket pcs
You\'re preaching to the choir here. The problem is the choir is too small.
Amen
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I too think the Z is better then PPC, I\'ve owned enough to know, and gave them all away or got my money back within 14 days. It\'s time to make possession a criminal offence carrying a mandatory sentence of 5 years.
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That\'s what I\'m trying to do. Sell this idea to non Z users. I know I\'ll have to pry out the Z out of your cold dead hands! To create a site for PPC and potential pda customers on why they should atleast consider the Z and OZ. Something similar to MSs getyourfacts ads on the benefits of MS over Unix/Linux.
I mean if MS with baloney can do that why not Z which seriously is a lot superior?
If we get 10 users and even if one of them is interested in Z development, that\'ll be good for the Z!
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ONE ROM to rule them all
ONE ROM to find them
ONE ROM to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them
Isn\'t that the marketing slogan for WinMobile 2004?
\"The great, lidless eye of the evil lord Gates, wreathed in fire, atop the Microsoft headquarters in the land of Redmond, searching for his precious...\"
Sorry, couldn\'t resist... :wink:
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Hey ethereal, that\'ll be a great ad for Z! But then I guess, it\'ll lose its seriousness if we indulge in MS bashing.
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that\'s great
the more people interested in Z
the more effort will Sharp put on