OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cyberdoc1971 on August 14, 2007, 11:36:12 pm
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I know some of this has been touched on in pother previous forums, but has the age of the Linux-powered pda (Zaurus/Archos PMA/Etc.) come to an end? This was in discussion especially when Sharp made the decision to discontinue the Zaurus line. I have also seen the decline in other PDA lines (Palm and Windows Mobile), with very little news of any new PDAs coming out(personally, the Follio is a sub-notebook, not a PDA).
I have seen other users Z's and other units starting to have problems, and lack of parts does not help. Like you I got into the mobile Linux when it started up, I was lucky recently to get my hands on an Archos PMA430, bit I have concerns that the PDA is about dead to make way for the converged device, which I am not too fond of. So people, what are your thoughts on this?
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i think due to the nature of the devices it wont die quickly, by not running proprietary OSs we gain the ability to have the device updated until the hardware physically expires
i like converged devices but i prefer something slightly different to most people, my idea of the perfect phone is a small black box with bluetooth and 5 buttons on the top, everything is handled by the buttons and audio for feedback
back on topic however the entry to using a PDA is higher than most people give it credit for, out of the box it needs extra software IMHO to be useful and most people i find are not up to that task, the umpcs change that because its a familiar x86 architecture running windows and they can use the same apps on the PC, i guess that would explain the general down turn
i think there are several different other reasons as well, more enphisis on phones (i count pda phones as pdas) and the high cost of PDAs, i wouldn't say its a cheap hobby.
i think the follio is more limited than that, i would say its a screen extender for your mobile
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While I love the Zaurus as a PDA, but its slow-dying future seems to put me off and I am looking into getting a phone with basic PIM functions - and while a year back I( would have cringed at the though - even I am looking at a MS Windows Mobile 6 platform - since seems the only platform which has a future of continuing support and development for it.
A Linux phone has been so much talked about - but on the converged devices market, I still don't see Linux - and open like the Zaurus - anywhere on the horizon - hence the defection.
Its sad to see thw age of PDA's dwindling - cause even though I know my phone can do Opera, it still cant replace the PDA functions totally and as effectively as the Zaurus does.
Only if the Zaurus matured and iterated over different models with more functions to cater to the converged device market - but again, only if pigs flew !
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I agree that Only if the Zaurus and others (Archos/Kyocera/Simens/etc)matured and iterated over different models with more functions to cater to the converged device market. Still not crazy about WM6, or converged devices which unfortunately has become a monopoloy. I know there are a few DIY OS tinkers out there, which have put Linux on the Simpad and the older Compaq iPaq, I wonder if they are running into some problems with lack of PDAs, accessories, parts, etc?
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my tastes seem to be very uncommon in the marketplace, since all devices except the zaurus fail them. (and i haven't yet got my z.)
did some white paper inspire the marketers and designers to avoid some of the z's characteristics?
especially the thumbpad and size... the only significant devices i know that have the right idea are zaurus and hplx (honi soit qui mal y pense).
perhaps it's all due to a few gurus?
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my tastes seem to be very uncommon in the marketplace, since all devices except the zaurus fail them. (and i haven't yet got my z.)
did some white paper inspire the marketers and designers to avoid some of the z's characteristics?
especially the thumbpad and size... the only significant devices i know that have the right idea are zaurus and hplx (honi soit qui mal y pense).
perhaps it's all due to a few gurus?
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its just marketing at its best. the z and the hplx are models for a niche market of smart people. marketeers prefer to market products to the general dumb masses that buys hype and have less demands on hitech features but are pleased with something that looks good and plays music/video, pim and the occasional web surfing, and they dont mind their device being obsolete in the near future since they expect to replace it anyway...
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i think i'd be ok with a (properly thumbable) pda for the dumb masses that could be made to run linux, or an updated (still thumbable) z with "ubuntu for the dumb masses".
what features would i miss in those cases? or which features would they have that the dumb masses would not like?
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i think i'd be ok with a (properly thumbable) pda for the dumb masses that could be made to run linux, or an updated (still thumbable) z with "ubuntu for the dumb masses".
what features would i miss in those cases? or which features would they have that the dumb masses would not like?
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linux
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i think i'd be ok with a (properly thumbable) pda for the dumb masses that could be made to run linux, or an updated (still thumbable) z with "ubuntu for the dumb masses".
what features would i miss in those cases? or which features would they have that the dumb masses would not like?
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linux
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nuff said.
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I'd say choice and freedom.
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I will say that no device has excited me more than the OpenMoko/Neo1973. The base phone has pretty much the ability to do everything I regularly did with my Z, but the lack of a keyboard was a killer--on the other hand, the small device size looks great.
However, with the possibility of a USB host cable and the ability to carry around a small USB (or bluetooth if supported) keyboard if I expect to need it will probably push it as my favorite mobile device. I love the Z as a 'mini pc' but it has never quite lived up to that promise except for a few times (biggest block to me when traveling: getting the browser to click that "I accept the hotel's rules" page when getting a net connection; just never was happy most of the time).
So yeah, I'd say the era of the "pocket PC" as a mass device is probably over. I still think you'll see them around for some time in niche markets.
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marketeers prefer to market products to the general dumb masses that buys hype and have less demands on hitech features [...] and they dont mind their device being obsolete in the near future since they expect to replace it anyway...
Sounds just like the iphone.
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marketeers prefer to market products to the general dumb masses that buys hype and have less demands on hitech features [...] and they dont mind their device being obsolete in the near future since they expect to replace it anyway...
Sounds just like the iphone.
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That could be the other thing that has been putting the final nail in linux mobile's coffin. Not trying to be a hater, but most of what I hear is how so much better the iPhone is than anything else...to me it's all hype.
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I don't know much about the iPhone, but I've heard you need to use your actual fingers to tap on the screen (like the iPods etc.). Well, when it's -20 degrees Celsius up here in Canada, I REALLY don't want to have to take off my gloves to make a phone call. But I guess the wow-factor makes the dumb masses forgiving of stuff like that.
[edit]Also, if I'm lying in bed trying to read information on some website while lying sideways (it may be far-fetched to some, but I do it with my Z all the time -- comfortable reading without having to sit up. ), I really don't want the screen to automatically flip sideways preventing me from reading the site without doing logic puzzles (ie reading upwards) or yoga (ie awkward positions).[/edit]
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meanie wrote:
> linux
but that is why i wrote "that could be made to run linux" rather than "that runs linux". the question remains hw: desktops started proprietary and now run linux even if they are made for windows. in principle pdas can do the same, even if they have not yet.
dumb masses pdas don't have the z's thumbability and size. there has to be a reason.
so: if linux is the only or main thing that the dumb masses dislike, as you imply, then what is keeping the hw from being z-ish and satisfying leets? (not rhetorical. really want to know the real reasons.)
sometimes these things are fashions led by self-appointed gurus, and sometimes they are economics and marketing.
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btw not saying i disagree that linux is not a priority. but the z was made, and the hplx was made, and if there are no reasons why they are no longer made, then there might be a reason they will be made, if you get what i mean.
of course, device after device comes out with nothing like the z's gestalt, so there is a reason there somewhere.
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btw not saying i disagree that linux is not a priority. but the z was made, and the hplx was made, and if there are no reasons why they are no longer made, then there might be a reason they will be made, if you get what i mean.
of course, device after device comes out with nothing like the z's gestalt, so there is a reason there somewhere.
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yeah, patent!
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btw not saying i disagree that linux is not a priority. but the z was made, and the hplx was made, and if there are no reasons why they are no longer made, then there might be a reason they will be made, if you get what i mean.
of course, device after device comes out with nothing like the z's gestalt, so there is a reason there somewhere.
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yeah, patent!
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Not sure how off-topic we are, or if we are, but please elaborate about patent.
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the only mass market product I see which rivals the Zaurus is the HTC universal:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=149 (http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=149)
which does run linux quite well now:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus (http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus)
... although it's had good reviews it's never been massively popular, because I think it's too big to be comfortably used as a phone - though now people have to use hands-free (typically bluetooth) headsets in their cars, I think there *might* be a gradual shift away from people expecting to hold their phone to their ears, so oversize smartphones such as the uni could catch on.
sadly, whilst the replacement for the uni has some interesting features, it's only QVGA again. anyone who thinks the uni is/was a pinnacle of smartphones for running linux might want to get hold of one before they vanish!
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=733 (http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=733)
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thanks for the heads up on the uni, i have been thinking about it for awhile
in terms of feature set, if you have to explain what linux is for mor than 2 minutes then people are not intrested and its a strike against the product, if you say "ins not microsoft" its a strike against the product, if you say "its free" then its also a strike against the product
in my experience, very few people believe that a quality product like linux could be given away for free and believe microsoft, while expensive can do no wrong. when you tell them about microsofts bad track record (on multiple fronts) they just go "huh?", its at this point that i remember i am more informed about IT happenings than most people and that if some of the issues hit the front page of a normal news paper only then would people care
so i would say menie is right, and also so its a marketing thing, linux is effecitvly in the same position as the "free tibet" movement (saw them today, thats why they are an example) you see people advertising it but most people dont care, extending that idea, they say they dont care until they try somthing else and realize its not microsoft
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This topic is really getting pretty conplex - naturally so, since there are a lot of reasons involved - social, technological, functional etc for which the Zaurus is losing ground while devices like iPhone, and smartphones (Touch, Moto Q) etc are so much more prevalent.
While the Zaurus does a lot of thinks pretty well, it missing one major mark - its not a phone. That single ommision I beleive makes it a niche market device - more so with Linux on it. A phone is coveted by everyone - much more than a PDA. Hence largish devices are trying to converge to a smaller foot-print device like a smartphone or an iPhone to be able to cater to the phone-PDA market. That gives the mfrs a bigger market to play to.
And if we look beyond the techy, geeky goups, how many people really need a FTP server or Web server running on a PDA, or even understand its potential ?
As long as a manufactuirer can plug in a decent Opera or Safari on a phone and add some PIM, it becomes denoted as a "computer" as well as a phone. No wonder the dumb-masses will consume that - since it actually fulfills their "mobile computing" needs (essentially music , picture slideshows, video player, DOC editors and a browser) as well as server as a fashionable phone.
Now do you visualise the Zaurus as a phone, forget being fashionable ?So yes, while the iPhone, touch and Q's are moving away from the Z'is form factor - on the other hand, the HTC Shift, Uni's and UMPC's are moging up to a smaller but functional laptop replacement with more power to run full fledged OS's.
And that is where the Zaurus should have moved up to - cause it had the potential to become a great UMPC. Instead it got stuck in the PDA segment - which is essentually dead.
So no point in blaming the gurus and marketing - cause both those factors are very dependant on what the general masses will consume.
They will not consume a uber PDA in these days.
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... and believe microsoft, while expensive can do no wrong. when you tell them about microsofts bad track record (on multiple fronts) they just go "huh?",
It's sad and disgraceful how MS's dirty habits are influencing other manufacturers and the way people think about technology in general. I was looking at a PMP the other day and within a few moments of playing around with it crashed, "thoughtfully" the manufacturer gave the unit a reset button. When I pointed out to the salesman that the unit crashed he said "yeah, when it crashes just use the reset button" and then he continued "it's software, windoze does that all the time and 'all it takes' is a 'quick' reset to put things right again". I was thinking WTF.
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It's sad and disgraceful how MS's dirty habits are influencing other manufacturers and the way people think about technology in general. I was looking at a PMP the other day and within a few moments of playing around with it crashed, "thoughtfully" the manufacturer gave the unit a reset button. When I pointed out to the salesman that the unit crashed he said "yeah, when it crashes just use the reset button" and then he continued "it's software, windoze does that all the time and 'all it takes' is a 'quick' reset to put things right again". I was thinking WTF.
You definitely have a point there. That's in line with some UMPC manufacturers including a dedicated Ctrl+Alt+Delete button (If you need one, there's a problem). I've been using Linux since February (yes, I'm a bit of a newb), and Linux has never crashed on me once. Ever. I managed to crash X Windows exactly once in all that time, but Linux was still running and I just issued a startx and all was fine again (to be fair, I was running KDE on a very old PC with a 333 MHz processor and a crappy video card). Now that I don't use Windows at all, if I had a device that crashed on me every two seconds I would not consider it acceptable.
My Z occasionally closes open apps upon resume (only when I have a lot open -- ie Firefox with many tabs open) because it basically runs out of memory on resuming, but that's it. My Palm T3 never crashes unless an app is specifically responsible (although it would be nice if only the app crashed and not the whole OS). The Z is an oddball in the market and the T3 is pretty old now -- back from the era where Palm actually made stuff that worked instead of making fancy bricks.
My new dumbphone that I just got a few days ago has already frozen the front-mounted LCD on more than once and all it has to do is sit in my pocket waiting for a call. The phone still functions, but I have to open and close the phone to get the front LCD to turn off -- and if it's sitting in my pocket I can't tell if the screen is on or off and the battery starts dieing. Such is the future of gadgetry, unfortunately.
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nilch> They will not consume a uber PDA in these days.
is it really the case that people won't buy a non-phone thumbable pda?
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Is The Z, Archos Pma, Etc Dead?
Here is how I see it:
To still be alive, a PDA or PDAphone need to have customers, faithful customers, good press with good review and companies working on solutions arround it. It needs to evolve to meet customers expectations, press expectations and partners expectations.
- Customers buy the product, the accessories, the applications and they talk about it all around. The users are the one that make your company and product stay alive because they bring you the money.
- Press and reviews show how the product works. They show you how the device can be useful. They bring you news of the market and show you how to solve your every day needs. They even create new expectations on hardware and software.
- And to finish, companies bring you new software, new accessories, new services...
So, don't you think that the Z, the Linux Archos, (...) are just missing all of those points?
You buy a Zaurus. Are you happy with it? How are you using it? Are you happy with the software and the hardware list in the device or on the net? Is it easy to use? Will Joe six packs, your neighboring, be happy with it? If one of your answers is no, this market is in trouble. People who are not happy with this device won't talk about it. If you still want to promote it, will you really interest other people? ssh, apt-get, startx, "mv image-yoyo-1234.zaza /mnt/cfcard/image.img", reboot, kill sound-at-poweron, freeze, reboot, modprobe...? If they can't get it, they won't buy it and the company won't have the needed income to continue. You just loose because this is not a mass market but a to small one.
The press has similar expectation than advanced users. They also react like your Joe six packs. Even if they have advanced skills, they will think about their audience first. Mainly they want to have useful devices and want to report to Joe six packs (the one that bring them money) "This device is good to solve your issue. You need to buy it, it won't disappoint you". If you don't feed the press with good device hardware and good software solution, they won't publish good reviews and won't promote it at all. More than this, as they have their hands grafted on their Pc keyboard and are used to other devices, they will always have a nasty review about your device as long as your PDA keyboard is trying to mimic a full Pc keyboard for example, or if you don't have good synchronization solution, or good PIMs, .... They won't think a lot. They won't tell their readers "without this keyboard, you will need to type slowly with a stylus or mark you device with fingerprints"...
People expect good hardware upgrade and a lot of good and easy software and the Zaurus and other hardware and software expectations are not fulfilled since many years. There is no big market for companies to work on (no money to do if you prefer). There are no big news around the Zaurus either (software and hardware) nor a big user base.
And the result of all this? All those devices are dying!
Well, who should we blame?
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Wow! Amrein, that is the best explanation that I have see so far, it basically defines my disgust with the current market, as well as other companies dirty tactics to influence decent companies to get out of the industry.
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well--actually, I really like my Z.
it could be faster< hve real docking, etc... but on the whole it suits me.
Something to consider about the markets is that smartphones are really getting better, and laptops are getting cheaper. e $500 laptop is gonna be much more powerful than my Z, and a good smartphone is still more portable. Part of what limits the appeal of the Z is that it doesn' do much "outta the box" with out some work, knowhoaw and a community-- Also, are any umpcs anything but niche geek-toys?
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ever since switching to Linux i have hated the whole "reset to fix" methodology of windows
i just have to accept the fact that i am far outside the statistical norms for these products, and that what i want out of my equipment is most likly not worth investing the effort into when they can get a larger market by dumbing it down and letting the user work around thier system rather than the other way around
most of the comercial stuff out there is a bit too user friendly for me, i like to push my hardware/software to the limits. an example would be the hamachi VPN tool vs openvpn, sure i could have the vpn up in mere minutes with hitmachi (or whatever it was called) however i like to
a. know how it works
b. do it right
c. design it correctly
hence i chose openvpn, sure it takes a bit of extra effort but i know its the correct solution for me, custom tailored, thats why i like gpl software. it normally has the most knobs (btw in this case the "correct" solution was to connect all 3 sites using openvpn and do routing so that even if one node is bieng hammered you can still log into the other nodes and join the vpn, overegineered... yes cool... yes possibly save me one day... defiantly)
thats what the zaurus and most linux platforms have, the ability to mold the system into something we want, all my systems use heavily modified keyboard layouts (dvorak) and key bindings (all the Fxx keys are bound to windows management functions). most people merely interact with a computer, we as a community defiantly go a lot futher
speaking of smart phones, if someone calls me the power management stuff hangs and it dosent sleep, hence giving me bad battery life. yes its a wince PDA
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nilch> They will not consume a uber PDA in these days.
is it really the case that people won't buy a non-phone thumbable pda?
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Its just that a Uber PDA these days has morphed into a what is generally called as a UMPC. Juts a PDA with limited (moddable) function, is I guess a dying breed. Instead a UMPC (like the Shift) is moving towards a PDA + PC function combination.
So users have a choice between a phone+PDA (for those wanting a phone device) or a PDA+PC combo (for those wanting a power packed portable device), so then why would anyone ( the "common user") choose just a PDA in these days ?
This is what I mean in my post.
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Yes, but UMPCs aren't doing very well. I've never seen a UMPC out in the wild -- the smallest laptop I've seen is a Libretto. The masses just aren't geeky enough to spend that kind of money on something when they could get a laptop for much less. Maybe in 20 years everyone will have a very small UMPC that does everything they need and then they can just hook it up to a docking station when they get home and use it as a full PC. But that day has not come, and right now all of these gadgets are for geeks. There just isn't a market for it yet.
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Yes, but UMPCs aren't doing very well. I've never seen a UMPC out in the wild -- the smallest laptop I've seen is a Libretto. The masses just aren't geeky enough to spend that kind of money on something when they could get a laptop for much less. Maybe in 20 years everyone will have a very small UMPC that does everything they need and then they can just hook it up to a docking station when they get home and use it as a full PC. But that day has not come, and right now all of these gadgets are for geeks. There just isn't a market for it yet.
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I am not so sure ... if there are 4-5 companies bringing out UMPC's or UMPC styled PDA's, then surely its not for geeks anymore. You can bet your dollar that so many comanies will not be making products (or experimenting even) for a market whose time has not come yet. Yes, I do agree that not too many people are buying yet - thats mainly because of the price factor - but the day a UMPC breaks the $1000 barrier, it won't be too much more for it to become a consumer product.
Yes on the other hand the converged device like the smartphone (a PDA+phone) is more of a mass market product now. It must have taken some time for it to become so, cause many people did say that a phone and a camera and a pda - an all in one device - just wouldn't work. It was too complex for notmal people.
20 years you say - I am sure that's just figurative speech.
Of course I am not future teller either and I could be dead wrong.
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Haha, your point about the phone+PDA converged device just reminded me why standalone PDAs are now dieing. The dumb masses don't realize that the more devices converge the crappier each function gets. My mom insists on having a DVD/VCR converged device (granted it's hard to find a quality VCR that doesn't contain a DVD player). But when you have a huge high-definition TV, you get way better quality if you buy a good standalone DVD player with more outputs than just component and S-video. (By the way, I'm not calling my mom stupid -- just technologically illiterate)
Perhaps when there is a UMPC/PDA/phone/television/toaster that fits in your pocket (and doesn't burn the toast) more people will buy UMPCs, but not until then. (Another problem, again relating to my technologically illiterate mother -- I'm always told that the screen on my Z is too small. It would be the same problem with UMPCs until they master that roll-out screen)
[edit]And yes, 20 years was just a made-up date. I tried to make it later in the future than I would think possible and for good reason. They said by 2000 we would live like the Jetsons. In the movie 2010: The year we make contact (or whatever it's called) their spaceships are like those in Star Trek (No, I'm not a Trekkie. I hate that show -- and I definitely don't speak Klingon). Although I can't deny that in 2010 we will have that kind of space technology because it is only 2007, I am, needless to say, VERY doubtful that we will have that technology in 3 years. Yes, basically I'm trying to cover my butt.[/edit]
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To still be alive, a PDA or PDAphone need to have customers, faithful customers, good press with good review and companies working on solutions arround it.
Agree.
- Press and reviews show how the product works. They show you how the device can be useful. They bring you news of the market and show you how to solve your every day needs. They even create new expectations on hardware and software.
In theory that is what ought to be happening. In practice, most of the so-called "reviews" you read on the web (I haven't bought paper magazines for years so no comments on that medium) are little more than a product description. Very often they "review" pre-production products and state that they "expect any shortcomings will be fixed by the time the product is released", however the chances are that those shortcomings are still there in the released product. These same "reviewers" probably don't even update their "review" for the released product. Let alone conduct long term tests whereby they use the product extensively over a period of time so they can uncover any flaws a user might expect to encounter when using the product on a day to day basis.
The press has similar expectation than advanced users. They also react like your Joe six packs. Even if they have advanced skills, they will think about their audience first. Mainly they want to have useful devices and want to report to Joe six packs (the one that bring them money)
Pah! Most are only concerned with getting in the latest machines/gadgets/devices for "review". When the average guy in the street buys a device I think it's reasonable to assume that they will use it for a good few years. However these so-called reviewers probably change their devices more often than their underpants, leaving them no time to actually understand and use the device they're writing about.
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I am not so sure ... if there are 4-5 companies bringing out UMPC's or UMPC styled PDA's, then surely its not for geeks anymore. You can bet your dollar that so many comanies will not be making products (or experimenting even) for a market whose time has not come yet.
The wince machines have always had quite a number of manufacturers making them, however it wasn't until Palm stumbled that the wince machines finally started to make headway and eventually dominate.
And there's always M$'s underhand tactics to consider. They could very well be using "marketing" dollars to bribe manufacturers to make these UMPCs even though most models never sell enough to make a profit.
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I am not so sure ... if there are 4-5 companies bringing out UMPC's or UMPC styled PDA's, then surely its not for geeks anymore. You can bet your dollar that so many comanies will not be making products (or experimenting even) for a market whose time has not come yet.
The wince machines have always had quite a number of manufacturers making them, however it wasn't until Palm stumbled that the wince machines finally started to make headway and eventually dominate.
And there's always M$'s underhand tactics to consider. They could very well be using "marketing" dollars to bribe manufacturers to make these UMPCs even though most models never sell enough to make a profit.
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UMPC' may not necessarily mean Wince based UMPC's. Its too bad we don't see any other - but I am taking about UMPC's in a OS agnostic way - more about features and hardware.
While I know (and I indulge in it too) blaming Microsoft for market realities not agreeing with the way we see things is a natural and amusing pastime, I don't think either 3rd party mfrs or Microsoft will be spending big bucks unless there is a potential to sell it and for users to want it. Would you have though that people would go about buying $600 - $750 phones (yes mobile phones) 5 years back ? But Nokia says its N95 is its flagship product and Apple is about to make a kill in the next quarter with higher than expected (Wall street expectation) sales. Just examples.
A little bit of arm twisting on MS's behalf is true, but you can't arm-twist a whole market.
While it does take a shining product to lead the way, often times, its over several iterations of a product that market acceptance is finally achieved. That's the classic case of Wince PDA's (and I hate them). But reality is reality and more and more people are using them and smartphones.
So I don't see why the dumb masses will not accept PDA's with more features sometime in the future.
Talking about this dumb-masses term - ultimately in mass market economics, if the dumb mass market is endorsing a product , then there must be a quality to the product that is shining , irrespective of what geeks and niche-specialists think. In mass market, its the dumb masses who are the definitive specialist.
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It's true about the dumb masses wanting and craving the UMPC's mostly for the "geek" effect, instead of a practical affordable device that can fit in their budget.
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It's true about the dumb masses wanting and craving the UMPC's mostly for the "geek" effect, instead of a practical affordable device that can fit in their budget.
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Ah ! I am amused by the way you look down on the dumb-masses and make a summary judgement about "their" budgets.
So while the dumb-masses try to be geekish, the geeks tell (or preach ?) them what is practical and can fit their budgets - interesting twist .. and did I say amusing too ?
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It's true about the dumb masses wanting and craving the UMPC's mostly for the "geek" effect, instead of a practical affordable device that can fit in their budget.
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Ah ! I am amused by the way you look down on the dumb-masses and make a summary judgement about "their" budgets.
So while the dumb-masses try to be geekish, the geeks tell (or preach ?) them what is practical and can fit their budgets - interesting twist .. and did I say amusing too ?
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Actually I don't know anyone who owns a umpc/powerful pda who doesn't also have some other noticeable geeky traits-- always somehow involving linux, regardless of the os on the handheld. Then again, I don't spend time in the parts of society where blackberries are prevalent, either, so possibly my perception is skewed
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It's true about the dumb masses wanting and craving the UMPC's mostly for the "geek" effect, instead of a practical affordable device that can fit in their budget.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166624\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Ah ! I am amused by the way you look down on the dumb-masses and make a summary judgement about "their" budgets.
So while the dumb-masses try to be geekish, the geeks tell (or preach ?) them what is practical and can fit their budgets - interesting twist .. and did I say amusing too ?
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dumb masses, i thought those were you guys
just kidding... but i guess i should have used the more political correct term of 'normal users', but i don't really like the term normal as it suggests a collection of people who need to adhere to a norm like this rotten concept of fashion. you gotta conform to the norm of being fashionable and hence buy and wear all that crap that everyone else is wearing. the same concept is used here. whatever mr average normal dude is using as a gadget is what everyone who considers himself/herself as normal needs to have, thus device xyz is popular with the normals and hence all other normals follow and buy it. umpc just have not reached the critical mass yet to be adopted by those normal users.
i personally don't like to use the term 'normal'. my preferred term for those people is 'imperfect clone'
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Lol, sorry guys, I did not mean to use "geek" in a bad way, actually being a little "geeky" means that you keep up with what in and what is not with all the tech out there. As dfor the "dumb messes", that refers to people that have the impulse to have the newest and latesst, but not necessarily the greatest, as in these Win-powered UMPC's.
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You consider these crappy Windows UMPCs the greatest?
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You consider these crappy Windows UMPCs the greatest?
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Not really, they are a good attempt in a portable computing concept, but have a lot of shortcomings (price, dependability, etc), and because of the UMPC's...they have forced too much change in the PDA markets.
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Haha, your point about the phone+PDA converged device just reminded me why standalone PDAs are now dieing. The dumb masses don't realize that the more devices converge the crappier each function gets. My mom insists on having a DVD/VCR converged device (granted it's hard to find a quality VCR that doesn't contain a DVD player). But when you have a huge high-definition TV, you get way better quality if you buy a good standalone DVD player with more outputs than just component and S-video. (By the way, I'm not calling my mom stupid -- just technologically illiterate)
Perhaps when there is a UMPC/PDA/phone/television/toaster that fits in your pocket (and doesn't burn the toast) more people will buy UMPCs, but not until then. (Another problem, again relating to my technologically illiterate mother -- I'm always told that the screen on my Z is too small. It would be the same problem with UMPCs until they master that roll-out screen)
[edit]And yes, 20 years was just a made-up date. I tried to make it later in the future than I would think possible and for good reason. They said by 2000 we would live like the Jetsons. In the movie 2010: The year we make contact (or whatever it's called) their spaceships are like those in Star Trek (No, I'm not a Trekkie. I hate that show -- and I definitely don't speak Klingon). Although I can't deny that in 2010 we will have that kind of space technology because it is only 2007, I am, needless to say, VERY doubtful that we will have that technology in 3 years. Yes, basically I'm trying to cover my butt.[/edit]
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Speaking of 20 years and displays--I find i still like the idea of an eyewear display, at least in theory. The wearable computer with an eyeglass display was the 80's future concept, if I recall correctly.
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Good Idea as I recall, it is still a concept being worked on. Last I had heard the-gadgeteer.com had an article on wearable computers, and there are still some small companies making some.
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Except I absolutely despise glasses. And I need them -- so I opt for contacts. Even if my glasses could perform some awesome computing, I would never wear them. But perhaps others are more willing than I...
That's the problem with all of these mobile technologies. There will never be a perfect device. If it's really usable, it's too big. If it's small, the screen is too small to be usable and the controls are awkward. People are fickle. As much as I dislike the iPhone, it seems to be the only device trying to revolutionize mobile computing -- which is needed in order to have a really usable yet mobile device. New input methods allow for more screen real estate, making the device more usable for mobile computing. The Z is great, but if I didn't have a backpack (I usually do since I'm a student) I probably wouldn't carry it around with me. It's just too big. Plus, if it got any smaller, it wouldn't be usable.
It's a catch-22. Until we get magical chips implanted in our brains that overlap computing images over top of the images seen from our eyes, thereby making a truly invisible and mobile computer that we can't even feel, nothing will be perfect. Plus, what kind of moron would get a chip implanted in their brain?
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As dfor the "dumb messes"
Hey, that's even better term than "dumb masses"
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It's a catch-22. Until we get magical chips implanted in our brains that overlap computing images over top of the images seen from our eyes
That's old hat - plus users complain that the overlaid images gives them migraine. The latest technology allows the information to be injected directly into your consciousness.
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As dfor the "dumb messes"
Hey, that's even better term than "dumb masses"
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LMAO , I didn't mean for the typo...that's mostly due to being dyslexic, but I think a good term none the less.
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That's old hat - plus users complain that the overlaid images gives them migraine. The latest technology allows the information to be injected directly into your consciousness.
man, are the ads and spyware going to suck then. i can see the noob trick of rm -rf / bieng popular
some of the head mounted displays are nice, my personal favs are fairly scifi looking (ARvision-S @ http://www.trivisio.com/mixed-reality.html) (http://www.trivisio.com/mixed-reality.html)) as they are one of the few that has non tv resolution (800x600, basically the highest you can get ) and it supports vga, pal ntsc or USB as an input (only guys i know who do usb) so it isnt as hard to connect (http://www.trivisio.com/cameras.html, seems they bump up the specs, most list pal/ntsc at around 320x240)
the microoptical stuff is good if you want somthing more invisible but it starts at $2000USDtthe one i likes alot cheaper at $899 (prices from http://www.tekgear.ca/) (http://www.tekgear.ca/))
still ther would be alot of bulk with all the cabeling and support stuff, i guess thats why most people build it into vests. that biometrics over bluetooth thing that appeared on hackaday was intresting however