OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Zaurus Distro Support and Discussion => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => Sharp ROMs => Topic started by: speculatrix on December 03, 2007, 03:07:53 am
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I am hoping we can persuade Anton to come out of retirement and produce and update to Cacko, if we can come up with a realistic list of things that would be a genuine step forwards.
So, please consider responding with a feature or update item, preferably with a pointer to the source/resources required. If people can offer information as to any updates and new packages that Sharp produced that Cacko doesn't have, or even standard gnu/linux packages that need updating due to security fixes etc.
Thanks!
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I'll start:
the C3200 had text-to-speech package which could be put into the Cacko feed.
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Cacko has the one real advantage: it works!
So, for me the wishlist comes down to
a) 2.6 EABI Kernel + base system similar to cacko 1.23 and as stable!
b) an easy to install toolchain for (cross-)compiling.
Would install that as soon I could get my hands on.
detlef
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a) 2.6 EABI Kernel + base system similar to cacko 1.23 and as stable!
2.6 EABI kernel is not realistic.
the realistic things are:
2.4 kernel as is, basic libraries (glibc, etc) as is; a couple update (mainly due to security reasons) on the rootfs (basic tools), and some update (feature based) on the user-space programs.
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I'd like a fully functionnal support for Wifi cards and WPA intergrated as it is the norm today and my wifi is always messy-behaving.
This is reason why I never actually really use my Z.
An update of Gaim to the latest Pidgin if possible.
A simplier setup of foreign languages (like a one package install of the korean language) such as european and asian languages.
Otherwise, I think that Cacko is great !
edit: I want to precise that I have no idea about how difficult it is to realize what I just suggested. But as it is a wishlist, I did as if I was asking this for Christsmas
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I'd like a fully functionnal support for Wifi cards and WPA intergrated as it is the norm today and my wifi is always messy-behaving.
This is reason why I never actually really use my Z.
An update of Gaim to the latest Pidgin if possible.
A simplier setup of foreign languages (like a one package install of the korean language) such as european and asian languages.
1. you need to specify which card you are using, its manfid (from cardctl) and as much information as possible.
2. I agree, a tool to enable WPA for a particular access point would be nice, as well as a simple WPA PSK editor. I have occasionally thought it'd be quite easy to write a simple command-line driven one.
3. I agree, gaim update would be good too
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a) 2.6 EABI Kernel + base system similar to cacko 1.23 and as stable!
2.6 EABI kernel is not realistic.
To clarify, Sharp violated the GPL and did not release full sources to their hacked kernel. If you changed to 2.6 EABI none of the sharp code would run, thereby defeating the point of Cacko as you might as well use OpenZaurus or Angstrom with Opie!
Also, the version of qtopia is proprietary version 1.5, it just happens that you can use version 1.7 for developing s/w.
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To clarify, Sharp violated the GPL and did not release full sources to their hacked kernel. If you changed to 2.6 EABI none of the sharp code would run, thereby defeating the point of Cacko as you might as well use OpenZaurus or Angstrom with Opie!
Ah, ok. That GPL violation wasn't clear to me.
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I'd like a fully functionnal support for Wifi cards and WPA intergrated as it is the norm today and my wifi is always messy-behaving.
This is reason why I never actually really use my Z.
I am hoping something like this can be implemented for an easy to use WPA settings ap.
Here's a thread to WPA-GUI in the Sharp forum.
https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...&hl=wpa+gui (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22539&hl=wpa+gui)
I downloaded the *.tgz, but wasn't certain what I needed to do to make it work. Does it need compiled? Or is it just unfinished?
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I have tried Cacko (both full and lite versions) and I think it's great except for the following issues:
-- In order to use wifi more than once, I had to remove/insert the wi-fi card to make it work again.
-- The wi-fi taskbar icons would not change colors to show the different connection levels (red, yellow, and green -- it always displayed the blue icon )
-- The clock would gain a minute or two after a reboot, plus clicking on the clock icon would bring up the set time/date program (I hate that)
-- I couldn't open a cacko backup file with 7-zip (the sharp rom backups will open with 7-zip for extracting files etc)
There are probably a few more things, but I can't think of them offhand.
If these few issues were resolved I might think about switching back to cacko.
However, using the tetsu kernel and sd driver along with some of meanie's great packages makes the sharp rom as functionally complete as cacko.
The BIG thing is that Sharp has no "lite" version.
Doug
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My problem with Cacko was that no matter what I tried (I spent about a month) I could not restore complete support for Japanese language. So, I had to go back to stock Sharp ROM with meanie's scripts.
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New feature
make the main file system use squashfs.. it's more efficient on space, but this cannot be remounted as writable like the existing cramfs.
... so...
use unionfs simply overlay a read/write file system (which could be on SD or CF card) onto the rootfs. this also means that you can easily recover from breaking the system by removing the overlay
so, it's a multiple win: space saving, easy recovery, and removal of the nasty tangle of symlinks!
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hostap Injection drivers for the latest aircrack-ng dev suite would be nice.Still trying to get that working on 2.4.18.I think its becoming a 5year mission :G:.
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To clarify, Sharp violated the GPL and did not release full sources to their hacked kernel. If you changed to 2.6 EABI none of the sharp code would run, thereby defeating the point of Cacko as you might as well use OpenZaurus or Angstrom with Opie!
Also, the version of qtopia is proprietary version 1.5, it just happens that you can use version 1.7 for developing s/w.
Sorry, I have to call BS on this one. Sharp did NOT violate the GPL. They haven't been as generous as they could have been, but you can get the full sources of the kernel and their patches to the GPL-ed code from the Japanese Sharp site[1]. What they did not release was the proprietary code for things such as SD drivers. As they most probably have to sign non-disclosure agreements to get their hands on the SD driver code it is not surprising that they never released it.
What we don't have access to is the source code that makes up the rest of the ROM, but as you have mentioned they use a proprietary version of qtopia 1.5 and what software that they taken from GPL code they give the source code for [2],[3]. I know for a fact that Sharp Japan takes GPL violation seriously as I have met with a number of the people who worked there when I lived in Japan. Sharp may not be as free with their code as we might like, but you will find that they have stuck to the letter of the GPL - if not the intent. There are a number of modules or applications that some people think are GPLed but as yet I have heard of no solid evidence that this is the case and even a thread on lists.gpl-violations didn't give a definitive answer [4].
I have written to Sharp Japan previously when they hadn't posted the kernel source for the 860 after what I thought was a reasonable time and although they came up with a face saving excuse, I think it was a case of somebody forgot to post rather than anything else. If you think I'm wrong on any of my points, please let me know as I'm a firm believer in the GPL and feel that it must be enforced when it's being violated.
Cheers
Stu
[1] http://support.ezaurus.com/developer/source/source_dl.asp (http://support.ezaurus.com/developer/source/source_dl.asp)
[2] Dictionary based on zdict. http://support.ezaurus.com/developer/sourc..._dl_mmjisho.asp (http://support.ezaurus.com/developer/source/source_dl_mmjisho.asp)
[3] FreeNoteQT http://support.ezaurus.com/developer/sourc...rce_dl_fnqt.asp (http://support.ezaurus.com/developer/source/source_dl_fnqt.asp)
[4] sharpdzdc_cs.o http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/...uly/000385.html (http://lists.gpl-violations.org/pipermail/legal/2005-July/000385.html)
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Sorry, I have to call BS on this one. Sharp did NOT violate the GPL. They haven't been as generous as they could have
I stand corrected on this, thanks for enlightening me (and us).
since we've already gone off topic, what about the display driver source for the 6000's toshiba video chip?
thanks
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clicking on the clock icon would bring up the set time/date program (I hate that)
You can install qpealarmclock, then clicking on the clock gives a popup menu (to set alarms) similar to those of the other applets.
My problem with Cacko was that no matter what I tried (I spent about a month) I could not restore complete support for Japanese language. So, I had to go back to stock Sharp ROM with meanie's scripts.
What's "complete support" for you? I have installed the japanese-support package, changed the locale to japanese and installed a kernel with japanese buttons (not mapped to ctrl/alt), and I can use japanese just fine.
There are just two things bothering me: The first is the non-UTF8 encoding (but that probably cannot be fixed), and the second is when I open an input applet (the japanese handwriting recognition mainly), the keyboard is switched to romaji input, and japanese input cannot be activated (but I think the SharpROM does the same).
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What's "complete support" for you? I have installed the japanese-support package, changed the locale to japanese and installed a kernel with japanese buttons (not mapped to ctrl/alt), and I can use japanese just fine.
There are just two things bothering me: The first is the non-UTF8 encoding (but that probably cannot be fixed), and the second is when I open an input applet (the japanese handwriting recognition mainly), the keyboard is switched to romaji input, and japanese input cannot be activated (but I think the SharpROM does the same).
My attempts at trying to install Japanese support on Cacko are detailed here:
https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...30&start=30 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=16808&st=30&start=30)
I believe I was able to get some support but it was sketchy, and it crashed sometimes. On Sharp, Japanese support does not cause any issues.
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To clarify, Sharp violated the GPL and did not release full sources to their hacked kernel. If you changed to 2.6 EABI none of the sharp code would run, thereby defeating the point of Cacko as you might as well use OpenZaurus or Angstrom with Opie!
Also, the version of qtopia is proprietary version 1.5, it just happens that you can use version 1.7 for developing s/w.
Sorry, I have to call BS on this one. Sharp did NOT violate the GPL.
They are violating the GPL, since you don't get the kernel sources for the actual kernel that runs on the devices. It's obvious from e.g. the tosa sources. If you compile the kernel using the same compiler and config you will get the orange lines issues, which the sharp kernel doesn't have. That's a clear indicator that source doesn't match the binary 100%. If it doesn't match, it's a GPL violation.
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I did email Anton a week ago, it didn't sound like he had pans to do any updates but if he were then...
- A fix to the Magnified screen bug that eventually reboots the Z when switching modes (on a C750 and C1000 it does anyway)
- Inclusion of the old (tkc?) mount / check / formatter app - nothing better for fixing busted SD cards
- updated SD driver for 2GB SDs (HDSD?)
- model specific packages in the feed named by model and not by chip name (mplayer and libSDL etc)
- updated USB drivers? V4l/webcam?
cant think of much else that would reasonably be in a .01 update.
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may be it is not a 1.24, but an 1.23.1 should be great, so a new cacko install will give all the greatest stuff
For example :
kernel : https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24972 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24972) and SD>1 G drivers
Media : Quasar -> https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24839 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24839)
Emu : Gpsp -> https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24928 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24928) (some sdl issues to fix)
and updated fonts (dejavu, etc) that works with non English language (ie with é, à, è, ï, ...)
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since we've already gone off topic, what about the display driver source for the 6000's toshiba video chip?
[div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE( @ Dec 5 2007, 02:28 AM) [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--][!--quoteo(post=172105:date=Dec 4 2007, 01:52 AM:name=Stubear]
Sorry, I have to call BS on this one. Sharp did NOT violate the GPL. (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=172138\")
They are violating the GPL, since you don't get the kernel sources for the actual kernel that runs on the devices. It's obvious from e.g. the tosa sources. If you compile the kernel using the same compiler and config you will get the orange lines issues, which the sharp kernel doesn't have. That's a clear indicator that source doesn't match the binary 100%. If it doesn't match, it's a GPL violation.
[/quote]
Speculatrix, I assume you are referring to the same problem as koen.
I have no experience with the Sl-6000 (or any other American only version of the Zaurus) so I can't comment on any potential GPL violation by Sharp US. I googled for any info on this, but the only thing I came up was a comment on slashdot by Speculatrix
Even the Sharp Zaurus, until recently one of the few handhelds which came with linux out of the box still has proprietary/closed-source elements - the SD driver is one example. One of the biggest missing pieces of the jigsaw is an accelerated video driver for the Zaurus SL-6000 series - there's a Toshiba TC6393XB chip for which virtually no documentation is available (it also drives the SD card slot, so presumably Toshiba didn't want to release the programmers guide for fear of giving out information on that somewhat proprietary standard).
If you feel this is a GPL violation then it should be addressed to [a href=\"http://gpl-violations.org/]GPL-violations.org[/url] as they have a pretty decent track record of stopping GPL violations.
Cheers
Stu
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If you feel this is a GPL violation then it should be addressed to GPL-violations.org (http://gpl-violations.org/) as they have a pretty decent track record of stopping GPL violations.
Good point. Thanks for the link. Speculatrix: I don't have my hopes high, but I think we should pursue this for Tosa. What do you think?
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i would like latest the latest stable bluetooth stack. The latest tetsu kernel and latest busybox
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If you feel this is a GPL violation then it should be addressed to GPL-violations.org (http://gpl-violations.org/) as they have a pretty decent track record of stopping GPL violations.
Good point. Thanks for the link. Speculatrix: I don't have my hopes high, but I think we should pursue this for Tosa. What do you think?
Hell--at this point I'd be happy with a keymap that works with the pocketworkstation fbvnc.... Any persuit of anything on Tosa is a step in the right direction
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If you feel this is a GPL violation then it should be addressed to GPL-violations.org (http://gpl-violations.org/) as they have a pretty decent track record of stopping GPL violations.
Good point. Thanks for the link. Speculatrix: I don't have my hopes high, but I think we should pursue this for Tosa. What do you think?
yes, definitely, the video driver for the 6000 is one of the key stumbling blocks for it to achieve its potential!
I have made my own private enquiries and not been able to get the programmers guide to the video part of the chip, so Sharps' sources may be the only route.
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I am hoping we can persuade Anton to come out of retirement and produce and update to Cacko, if we can come up with a realistic list of things that would be a genuine step forwards.
So, please consider responding with a feature or update item, preferably with a pointer to the source/resources required. If people can offer information as to any updates and new packages that Sharp produced that Cacko doesn't have, or even standard gnu/linux packages that need updating due to security fixes etc.
Thanks!
Any luck?
C
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I am hoping we can persuade Anton to come out of retirement and produce and update to Cacko, if we can come up with a realistic list of things that would be a genuine step forwards.
Any luck?
We've actually not had many realistic proposals for real additions, have we? a few updates and a few bug fixes. Is there anything in the 3200 that wasn't in the 3100, apart from text to speech?
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I am hoping we can persuade Anton to come out of retirement and produce and update to Cacko, if we can come up with a realistic list of things that would be a genuine step forwards.
Any luck?
We've actually not had many realistic proposals for real additions, have we? a few updates and a few bug fixes. Is there anything in the 3200 that wasn't in the 3100, apart from text to speech?
Would it be possible to compile and drop in the qtopia 4/ GreenSuite stuff that is under discusssion? Wouls dit be worthwhile to persue?
Is there a current web browser for the z that would run in cacko and which is available for download or purchase?
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I am hoping we can persuade Anton to come out of retirement and produce and update to Cacko, if we can come up with a realistic list of things that would be a genuine step forwards.
Any luck?
We've actually not had many realistic proposals for real additions, have we? a few updates and a few bug fixes. Is there anything in the 3200 that wasn't in the 3100, apart from text to speech?
Also the >1GB SD card support was from the 3200 as well. pelrun also patched this for the c7x0 machines so that module can be used in in the non-cxxxx 1.2.4 releases. I would love to see SDHC backported to the 2.4 kernels as well.
Here is the rest of the list I would like to see:
Intergrating evilJazz's new 2.4 kernel with its faster video replay performance thanks to it's faster floating point emulation would be welcome to.
I would like to see the an updated swap part applet that supports greater than 128MB swaps.
An overclocking applet that that hides the crash happy overclocking settings on the 3200.
Backport and integrate the system wide copy and paste applet from Qtopia 2.2
Integrate WPA tools (including graphical) into the Cacko for easy WPA access. Include a wireless scanner that can used to automate the access point config.
As far a bug fixes for 1.23. Patch HancomWord so that the default font size is legible. Fix the power management so that the lowest screen brightness level doesn't turn off the backlight.
As far as browsers go I would recommend looking at basing it on the latest KHTML code. Safari on my iPod Touch has utterly shocked and awed me at how well it works. It is the best mobile browsing experience I have ever had (NetFront, Opera, FireFox, Dillo, and Blazer); it is faster and renders beautifully. FireFox on the Z is a complete dog compared to it. The gecko engine is totally unsuitable of handheld use, IMHO.
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the possibility to use 6Gb of hard disk of c3200 to install applications and programs and not only 30Mb
The injection hostap driver for the latest aircrack-ng
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integrating qt4/qtopia4 might be worthwhile IF you could be sure that you could, say, replace most of the standard apps with new qt4 ones, and yet have sufficient compatibility to still run the original Sharp apps. If you lose sharp compat, you might as well simply install angstrom with qt4 or opie2!
I agree that replacing as many of the kernel modules as possible with ones backported from later 2.4 kernels if possible, but that would be a lot of work; I think Anton did that when he build cacko1.23. And of course updating all the misc patches like ssh, busybox etc would be important - remembering that it all has to be gcc2.95.x compatible for the kernel and glibs!
So, actually, how many Sharp apps are actually worth keeping? Is it simply that cacko is a well-rounded system with working control panels for network, bluetooth, speed, overclocking, dialup, etc? How far off that is pdaXrom, Angstrom, Debian or Poky and would it be more worthwhile to make these work?
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the possibility to use 6Gb of hard disk of c3200 to install applications and programs and not only 30Mb
The injection hostap driver for the latest aircrack-ng
erm, you can run programs off the hard drive - just change your path. if you want it seamless, pick a whole directory e.g. qtopia, move to hdd partition and add a symlink!
for best results, repartition the hdd giving yourself a nice bit ext2 partition so you have proper linux access control, and add a swap partition too?
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integrating qt4/qtopia4 might be worthwhile IF you could be sure that you could, say, replace most of the standard apps with new qt4 ones, and yet have sufficient compatibility to still run the original Sharp apps. If you lose sharp compat, you might as well simply install angstrom with qt4 or opie2!
I agree that replacing as many of the kernel modules as possible with ones backported from later 2.4 kernels if possible, but that would be a lot of work; I think Anton did that when he build cacko1.23. And of course updating all the misc patches like ssh, busybox etc would be important - remembering that it all has to be gcc2.95.x compatible for the kernel and glibs!
So, actually, how many Sharp apps are actually worth keeping? Is it simply that cacko is a well-rounded system with working control panels for network, bluetooth, speed, overclocking, dialup, etc? How far off that is pdaXrom, Angstrom, Debian or Poky and would it be more worthwhile to make these work?
For me the apps to keep are the hancom office apps, the sharp calendar if that is the only way to have a lightweight calendar which wakes up the Z and alarms consistently which kopi never did for me, netfront, opera 7.55, textmaker, tkc apps (zip, backup, FTP, mahjongg, lines, blocks, panels), and tree!explorer+. But that's just me.
If Maslovsky can integrate as well as he did under 1.23 then it would worth it. The only ROM/distro on my Zaurus that came anywhere near the functionality and usability in Cacko was pdaxii13 and even that wasn't as good as Cacko out of the box. I just don't have time anymore to mess around. I just need something that works with minimal fuss!
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japanese handwriting recognition is worth keeping. Actually its the thing preventing me to move to other roms
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japanese handwriting recognition is worth keeping. Actually its the thing preventing me to move to other roms
Pretty much the same. Hancom, Opera, Kino and usable chinese input. Those are what have kept me from using Opie in the past And will probably stop me going to Angstrom in the future.
As far as an update goes if we are talking about a 1.24 revision then there shouldnt be too many changes
Wouldn't qt4 be more a 1.3 or a v2.0 release ? wasnt there a qt4/ SHARP ROM hack a while ago?
C
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the possibility to use 6Gb of hard disk of c3200 to install applications and programs and not only 30Mb
The injection hostap driver for the latest aircrack-ng
erm, you can run programs off the hard drive - just change your path. if you want it seamless, pick a whole directory e.g. qtopia, move to hdd partition and add a symlink!
for best results, repartition the hdd giving yourself a nice bit ext2 partition so you have proper linux access control, and add a swap partition too?
I tried so but I never did it successfully
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integrating qt4/qtopia4 might be worthwhile IF you could be sure that you could, say, replace most of the standard apps with new qt4 ones, and yet have sufficient compatibility to still run the original Sharp apps. If you lose sharp compat, you might as well simply install angstrom with qt4 or opie2!
I agree that replacing as many of the kernel modules as possible with ones backported from later 2.4 kernels if possible, but that would be a lot of work; I think Anton did that when he build cacko1.23. And of course updating all the misc patches like ssh, busybox etc would be important - remembering that it all has to be gcc2.95.x compatible for the kernel and glibs!
So, actually, how many Sharp apps are actually worth keeping? Is it simply that cacko is a well-rounded system with working control panels for network, bluetooth, speed, overclocking, dialup, etc? How far off that is pdaXrom, Angstrom, Debian or Poky and would it be more worthwhile to make these work?
Hi all
It's possible to create a new set of libraries related to a new version of gcc (necessary for compiling qt4) in parallel with the original cacko ones, an analogy is how the different linux distros are dealing with the AMD64 architecture, they have a /lib64 directory for the new 64 bits libraries and a /lib for the old 32 bit ones.
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It seems quite a few programs for Sharp ROM are still under active development in the Japanese communities,
such as
Ebt/EBt-lit: http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/tokada/SL-C...t_index_en.html (http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/tokada/SL-C700/ebt_index_en.html)
Ruby on Rails: http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ruby-gaia/Ruby...2000_tab03.html (http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ruby-gaia/RubyonRailsforWindows2000_tab03.html)
NeoCal: http://bxk07344.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2008-02-20 (http://bxk07344.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2008-02-20)
There are some really nice programs which may have been overlooked by non-Japanese users. The best example is this: http://homepage2.nifty.com/ishihata/yoteihyouforsl-cxxx.htm (http://homepage2.nifty.com/ishihata/yoteihyouforsl-cxxx.htm)
This calendar program fares much better than the stock PIMs and is less blaoted than KO/Pi+KA/Pi. It would be great if it is translated into English (contact the developer?).
A look at these Japanese sites will give you some ideas of what's going on with the Zaurus in Japan, even without knowing Japanese: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yamadaatmn/searchdia...%2a%5bZaurus%5d (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yamadaatmn/searchdiary?word=%2a%5bZaurus%5d)
http://www.nurs.or.jp/~tanapan/toybox/index.html (http://www.nurs.or.jp/~tanapan/toybox/index.html)
Remeber this page has some very nice programs. Some are still being maintained and updated, even Emacs cvs 23.0.50!
http://www.focv.com/ipkg/ (http://www.focv.com/ipkg/)
Of course Meanie's packages are essential addons! http://www.users.on.net/~hluc/myZaurus/ (http://www.users.on.net/~hluc/myZaurus/)
Personally, I think an updated fsck tool is also very important (the stock one is just like a dinosaur), which is very useful as a rescue/repair tool of other systems.
One alternative to update softwares in Sharp/Cacko is to convert from Debian ARM packages, as long as the dependencies (esp. libraries) are met.