OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Zaurus - Everything Development => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => pdaXrom Development => Topic started by: InSearchOf on December 08, 2007, 08:22:04 pm
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All,
PdaXrom 2.0 developement will be on hold until further notice. pdaXrom is working on taking an alternate path of development for the future. We will keep everyone up-to-date with any progress that is made once everything becomes official.
Thanks
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All,
PdaXrom 2.0 developement will be on hold until further notice. pdaXrom is working on taking an alternate path of development for the future. We will keep everyone up-to-date with any progress that is made once everything becomes official.
Thanks
Whoa He didn't say "Late"...
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hahaha... I didnt take notice to that.... I guess I must mean business!
Late
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I know it might be heresy for you guys, but I'm just an old missionary, you know... So forgive me, but
Please consider using OpenEmbedded and joining a huge, vibrant team.
The experience you guys have with X11-focused environments on PDAs is great, it would make a huge difference to the Angstrom initiative.
Now go and flame me for suggesting that
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Disclaimer: I'm not a spokesperson for pdaXrom, nor am I a leader in the project. These are my opinions/views/impressions, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views/impressions of anybody else.
I don't know if a "hage...team" is what pdaXrom wants. I think part of the appeal is that there's a small group of devs that personally can help people and work together (or independently) more closely (I realize how little sense that makes).
I wouldn't be against using OpenEmbedded as the build system (I'm not a Linux n00b, and I find the pdaX build system a pain), but I would NOT like to have it merged with other projects. Angstrom/OZ has always felt less flexible and less like a real Linux system to me than pdaXrom does, and I fear that would be lost if the projects merged.
Just my 0.02 USD.
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Well, the pdaXrom could be a dedicated team/distro in OE and would benefit from lots of commits that have the same goal -- improving the Linux experience on embedded devices. I don't think anything would have to be lost... except the build system, of course
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Well, the pdaXrom could be a dedicated team/distro in OE and would benefit from lots of commits that have the same goal -- improving the Linux experience on embedded devices. I don't think anything would have to be lost... except the build system, of course
Actually, this might not be a bad idea--IF it were feasable to retain the focus on useability. OE seems to have a strong pull towards dev centered and bleeding edge issues. This is very useful stuff, obviously, but as I keep saying, has tended to result in systems "in flux" and partly broken (much in the same way a mechanic's car is often in pieces). OE really could benefit from the focus pdax has had on useability, and pdaX seems to need direct access to low-level development.
EDIT: Or, the people involved might want to try to help with a fast solid stable debian on Zaurus
..or they may be wanting newer gadgets (though I hope not quite yet)
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why not simply delete most of the documentation on pdaXrom and then it'd be much more like OpenZaurus and Angstrom?
ok, ok, I am only kidding, really I am. ouch!
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EDIT: Or, the people involved might want to try to help with a fast solid stable debian on Zaurus
..or they may be wanting newer gadgets (though I hope not quite yet)
that could be a great idea i'm speaking about debian
but with all new gadgets coming out there (n810, eee, iphone, ...) people begin to ask why continue with the zaurus.................
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Because I, for one, am too cheap to buy new gadgets on a whim. The Zaurus is also an almost-perfect platform, and there is much work to build off of, making development easier. Plus, those people who have started Zaurus projects (eg, pdaXrom) are likely going to be loathe to not finish them.
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Because I, for one, am too cheap to buy new gadgets on a whim. The Zaurus is also an almost-perfect platform, and there is much work to build off of, making development easier. Plus, those people who have started Zaurus projects (eg, pdaXrom) are likely going to be loathe to not finish them.
yes, and i've paid my zaurus so high that i would not sell it for a non better device i really appreciate the form factor of the zaurus, the usb host, the keyboard and the screen (although 800x600 would be better). no device out there give the same high level of satisfaction for a so small device
anyway when you talk about pdaxrom do you talk about pdaxii13 too ?
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the zaurus still has a lot of life left in it, a lot has been achieved too - maybe the problem is there's too much choice - at least three distros (lots more if you count each flavour of pdaX and sharp)
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Because I, for one, am too cheap to buy new gadgets on a whim. The Zaurus is also an almost-perfect platform, and there is much work to build off of, making development easier. Plus, those people who have started Zaurus projects (eg, pdaXrom) are likely going to be loathe to not finish them.
yes, and i've paid my zaurus so high that i would not sell it for a non better device i really appreciate the form factor of the zaurus, the usb host, the keyboard and the screen (although 800x600 would be better). no device out there give the same high level of satisfaction for a so small device
anyway when you talk about pdaxrom do you talk about pdaxii13 too ?
OK I also think that Zaurus is almost perfect hw platform ... Do you want bluetooth 2.0? ... just buy new CF card. Do you want newer Wifi standard? Buy new card ... dont need to buy new device. Do you want Eth? You can use usb/net. etc. etc... What I see main problem of all linux devices on the market is _compatibility_. When you have WM mobile machine from _any_ vendor you can run _any_ application you buy/program by yourself and it will run as binary and you just dont care if it is hardfloat or sofftfloat if it is eabi or armel or armv5te or armv5tel binary you dont care if it is packaged in deb of ipk if it is qtopia or gpe or pdaxrom, that application just, listen just works! In linux PDAs we have only with Zaurus plenty of incompatible distros and I do not even speak about Nokia's maemo, Google's Andoid etc etc.... For small example. I'd like to run Garnet VM (Palm OS) emulator released for Nokia N770, N800, N810 on my c1000 in pdaxrom. And I just cannot! Why? I wonder if OS (linux) is really good when it is imposible for me to run one application binary on _same_ procesor on almost _same_ version of kernel on almost same hardware. Maybe it is OK on desktop where linux market is quite OK but it seems to me waste of developers time on small embedded linux market. What do you think? Are you satisfied with diversity of Embedded linux market?
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just dont care if it is hardfloat or sofftfloat if it is eabi or armel or armv5te or armv5tel binary
It seems you completely missed the point of EABI, it's the new _standard_ by ARM ltd that allows you to mix hard- and softfloat binaries. There's a reason why angstrom and maemo are using it and debian wants to.
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just dont care if it is hardfloat or sofftfloat if it is eabi or armel or armv5te or armv5tel binary
It seems you completely missed the point of EABI, it's the new _standard_ by ARM ltd that allows you to mix hard- and softfloat binaries. There's a reason why angstrom and maemo are using it and debian wants to.
Maybe I missed the point, I am not developer. I'd like (and I think I am not alone) to understad all about this "hardfloat, softfloat, eabi, armel, armv5te, armv5tel etc" (can you explain please?) ... but my question is simple ... Can I run for exaple Garnet VM or any other Nokia binary on Z in any distro? If yes ... then how? if not then ... why? And I am sure if Garnet VM will be released on Windows Mobile (for Access it is only a bit of rewrite to other SDK) it will run on any WM machine. Do you catch my point?
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Because I, for one, am too cheap to buy new gadgets on a whim. The Zaurus is also an almost-perfect platform, and there is much work to build off of, making development easier. Plus, those people who have started Zaurus projects (eg, pdaXrom) are likely going to be loathe to not finish them.
yes, and i've paid my zaurus so high that i would not sell it for a non better device i really appreciate the form factor of the zaurus, the usb host, the keyboard and the screen (although 800x600 would be better). no device out there give the same high level of satisfaction for a so small device
anyway when you talk about pdaxrom do you talk about pdaxii13 too ?
I generally just talk about pdaXrom unless specifically stated otherwise. I haven't used pdaXii13, so I couldn't really comment on it if I wanted to.
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just dont care if it is hardfloat or sofftfloat if it is eabi or armel or armv5te or armv5tel binary
It seems you completely missed the point of EABI, it's the new _standard_ by ARM ltd that allows you to mix hard- and softfloat binaries. There's a reason why angstrom and maemo are using it and debian wants to.
Maybe I missed the point, I am not developer. I'd like (and I think I am not alone) to understad all about this "hardfloat, softfloat, eabi, armel, armv5te, armv5tel etc" (can you explain please?) ... but my question is simple ... Can I run for exaple Garnet VM or any other Nokia binary on Z in any distro? If yes ... then how? if not then ... why? And I am sure if Garnet VM will be released on Windows Mobile (for Access it is only a bit of rewrite to other SDK) it will run on any WM machine. Do you catch my point?
How about this question "What makes you think that the creators of Garnet VM intended it to run on any other embedded Linux platform?". From the looks of the product page it was intended only for Nokia devices, therefore, how can the expectation of using it on other platforms be reasonable? My point is that if a closed source developer chooses to only support one platform then you are stuck with that choice. The Linux community cannot tell the folks at Nokia how to develop their applications.
I think what you getting at is a standard for all Embedded Linux software, but that is difficult with all the variety of devices that Embedded Linux runs on. Such a standard could be created just like the Linux desktop standards, but I am not aware of such a thing at this time. Even if such a thing existed it would require a developer to target their applications to this standard if they wanted it to run on other systems.
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It seems you completely missed the point of EABI, it's the new _standard_ by ARM ltd that allows you to mix hard- and softfloat binaries. There's a reason why angstrom and maemo are using it and debian wants to.
I presume though that this still doesn't allow you to use old binaries (e.g. Sharp's proprietary applications) even if you load the old libraries too?
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It seems you completely missed the point of EABI, it's the new _standard_ by ARM ltd that allows you to mix hard- and softfloat binaries. There's a reason why angstrom and maemo are using it and debian wants to.
At last Koen has made a useful contribution to the pdaxrom forum I've always wondered what EABI was but it had never been important enough for me to actually go and find out. Now I know, thanks.
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I generally just talk about pdaXrom unless specifically stated otherwise. I haven't used pdaXii13, so I couldn't really comment on it if I wanted to.
..anything you can say about the new direction?
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It seems you completely missed the point of EABI, it's the new _standard_ by ARM ltd that allows you to mix hard- and softfloat binaries. There's a reason why angstrom and maemo are using it and debian wants to.
At last Koen has made a useful contribution to the pdaxrom forum I've always wondered what EABI was but it had never been important enough for me to actually go and find out. Now I know, thanks.
you can also rtfw :
http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort (http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort)
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I generally just talk about pdaXrom unless specifically stated otherwise. I haven't used pdaXii13, so I couldn't really comment on it if I wanted to.
..anything you can say about the new direction?
Nope. I'm not "in" on this decision. InSearchOf will have to be making the statements, I'll just offer opinions and perhaps advice.
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Sorry, to keep you guys on a branch waiting for the big news... I just want to make sure everything is 100% before making an announcement. The reason I made this announcement is because I didnt want January 1st to come around and then I say that nothing has been done for the past month... Just keeping the community in the loop.
If this goes the way we want... it will be a VERY good thing...
Thanks for your patience
Late
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Sorry, to keep you guys on a branch waiting for the big news... I just want to make sure everything is 100% before making an announcement. The reason I made this announcement is because I didnt want January 1st to come around and then I say that nothing has been done for the past month... Just keeping the community in the loop.
If this goes the way we want... it will be a VERY good thing...
Thanks for your patience
Late
be sure we will wait and will not sell our mighty Zaurus before christmas
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If this goes the way we want... it will be a VERY good thing...
The death of pdaXrom, too bad, but long live... well, my bet would be debian
Although it would be better to join forces with the OE guys, I can't imagine that some people would set their pride aside, so I don't think this will happen. That's my second bet.
Hopefully it's a choice that will keep some of us from having to buy new gadgets for a while.
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No new gadgets...
Late
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The death of pdaXrom, too bad, but long live... well, my bet would be debian
What do you mean "the death of pdaXrom?" It's not dead to the best of my knowledge (Did I miss some major announcement?).
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I hope that pdaxrom 2.0 will be released a day. I am a big fan of pdaxrom. I have tried debian, angstrom , openzaurus and I go back always to pdaxrom. I am actually on pdaxII13 v 5.5.5 from meanie which is for me the best rom ever
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Sorry, to keep you guys on a branch waiting for the big news... I just want to make sure everything is 100% before making an announcement. The reason I made this announcement is because I didnt want January 1st to come around and then I say that nothing has been done for the past month... Just keeping the community in the loop.
If this goes the way we want... it will be a VERY good thing...
Thanks for your patience
Late
LMAO... that has to be the most tantalizing post I've seen this year. Good luck with whatever it is!
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Just one newb question.
Will pdaXrom 2.0 ever be able to be installed without U-boot?
There seems to be many, many, posts about the troubles people have with U-boot.
I am still using pdaxii13, (thanks Meanie)
I am hoping a future 2.6 kernel version of pdaXrom could be used without having to install U-boot.
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The death of pdaXrom, too bad, but long live... well, my bet would be debian
What do you mean "the death of pdaXrom?" It's not dead to the best of my knowledge (Did I miss some major announcement?).
I didn't say it's dead yet. Hey, I'm still using it myself. But by telling the development is put "on hold" due to a shift in direction seems to me an end-of-life (pre-)announcement.
I hope InSearchOf surprises us differently, but personally I don't think so. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Any news that can be shared, InSearchOf?
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Ouch, this hurts!
Well, first I have to show my admiration for all of you that have kept (and I hope will keep) pdaXrom running. I understand how big task is it.
I should say that the zaurus is a kind of "travel laptop" for me, a laptop I can carry in my pocket. I don't use it as a PDA, I already have a pdaphone that I use for all my PIN needs, I use the zaurus as a pocket unix machine, this makes it unique.
Looking at the future I think it would be a very good idea having Angstrom as the base for the a new pdaXrom, there are advantages:
-- They provide a very good, clean and clear build system, why don't use it?
-- They write kernel code and add functionality, I suppose that if something different is needed for pdaXrom, it is easier to add only that functionality than trying to put together 150 patches and trying to make some sense from them...
Basically pdaXrom would build an easy to use system over the (strong) shoulders of Angstrom (look at how well Ubuntu stands on the shoulders of Debian).
Maybe pdaXrom need more contributers as well, here I can speak in my own name: I've been trying to contribute since I bought my zaurus in Akihabara more than 2 years ago, but I have a very big problem, my time. I am sure this is a problem pdaXrom devs have as well, but I cannot make it better.That does not mean I cannot contribute: I can do small things in the short periods I have some free time, and I think there are many people like me.
Maybe it would be a good idea to have the problems listed in one place, broken down in very small, self contained pieces, with some kind of difficulty scoring (difficult, average, easy) and a "tutor", somebody who knows how to solve it and give hints of how to do it. People could take the piece they want, ask to the tutors if they have any problem, solve it and commit afterwards.... learning in the process as well. This way you can "morph" a tecchy Angstrom in a more friendly pdaXTrom...
I don't know, I just wanted to be useful.
E
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Any news that can be shared, InSearchOf?
Yeah, tell us InSearchOf, what is going on behind the scenes!
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BTW, pdaXrom could benefit from OE without having to join Angstrom. Sonkei did just that. It is possible to create an overlay in OE where you define anything what you want to do differently, but you still benefit from any changes in areas that you choose to share the base. If I am not mistaken, openmoko was the first project to make use of this overlay feature. Give it a try. pdaXrom would be back in business in no time.
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any news there ?
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Started back working on pdaXrom 3 days ago... the planned move didnt go a well as planned but it could still happen... but I'm going to continue chugging away at it...
I agree, just as much as everyone else, that all the devs need to get together and get on the same page (including myself) to keep this distro running strong.... please feel free to PM me with anything questions you may have
Sorry for the delay uneventful delay...
Late
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Started back working on pdaXrom 3 days ago... the planned move didnt go a well as planned but it could still happen... but I'm going to continue chugging away at it...
I agree, just as much as everyone else, that all the devs need to get together and get on the same page (including myself) to keep this distro running strong.... please feel free to PM me with anything questions you may have
Sorry for the delay uneventful delay...
Late
Thanks for your effort. Can you share some of the new features with us please?
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New features...
*Updated Kernel
*Updated Xfree
*Updated Cross-Compiler
*WM still on the fence...
Late
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woot woot!
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woot woot!
nice
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As default wm, please conside openbox + feh + conky, since there are not gtk2 program, use less memory.
openbox is high configurable, easy to add keybind and a pipe menu to support zaurus' special function.
conky is also. Please enable double buffer extension, it seems like BuildDBE in def file. Enable DBE make conky display better.
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New features...
*Updated Kernel
*Updated Xfree
*Updated Cross-Compiler
*WM still on the fence...
Late
Sorry to be a pest but a month has passed and the natives are getting restless. We already lost GROG! to the Nokia horde and jpmatrix is slipping away with each passing day on eBay. Any more news on this....
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Ok.... Keep in mind I'm not speaking for the rest of the pdaXrom devs. But will NOT have anytime for the next few months to even start working on pdaXrom. Currently I just moved into a new position at my job and they didnt backfill my position so I'm doing the work of 2 people and it sucks... So that is where I'm at currently in my life and pdaXrom doesnt fit to nicely in there...
So to Zaurus community, I would like to say sorry and I will be back soon, but hopefully the rest of the devs will back fill in my, hopefully short, absence
Late
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Ok.... Keep in mind I'm not speaking for the rest of the pdaXrom devs. But will NOT have anytime for the next few months to even start working on pdaXrom. Currently I just moved into a new position at my job and they didnt backfill my position so I'm doing the work of 2 people and it sucks... So that is where I'm at currently in my life and pdaXrom doesnt fit to nicely in there...
So to Zaurus community, I would like to say sorry and I will be back soon, but hopefully the rest of the devs will back fill in my, hopefully short, absence
Late
THANKS for the update, but sorry to hear about your job situation....
You come out here to Silicone Valley to work!....
Anyway, hope things get better soon!
Mark
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Ok.... Keep in mind I'm not speaking for the rest of the pdaXrom devs. But will NOT have anytime for the next few months to even start working on pdaXrom. Currently I just moved into a new position at my job and they didnt backfill my position so I'm doing the work of 2 people and it sucks... So that is where I'm at currently in my life and pdaXrom doesnt fit to nicely in there...
So to Zaurus community, I would like to say sorry and I will be back soon, but hopefully the rest of the devs will back fill in my, hopefully short, absence
Late
Ouch! Sorry to hear of your misery. I've been there and am doing that at the moment and ,believe me, I know it sucks. Hopefully, they are compensating you for the grief like my employer did.