OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => Off Topic forum => Topic started by: Capn_Fish on March 21, 2008, 06:40:37 pm
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My N810 came today (), so here are some first thoughts/comparisons to the Zaurus:
-It's smaller
-Its screen doesn't seem quite as nice (seems similar to a ThinkPad LCD, not so much like a touchscreen)
-The keyboard is OK, worse than the Z's. You need to hold your thumbs parallel to the screen's long sides to type on the top row.
-Keymap is NOT set up for standard Linux use (/ is a key combo?!?)
-Poky doesn't work with the touchscreen (), Angstrom results with a normal image soon.
-It appears to be difficult to brick (no restore menu, but other detects USB on boot, can flash it from there)
-The battery door feels flimsy when removed from the device, solid otherwise
More to come!
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I must admit I was disappointed by reviews of the keyboard, that when slid out the top row was too close to the edge... still not good enough to persuade me to sell my Z. I've even thought about about trying to make a cradle/clamshell adaptor for the N800, but getting a keyboard just the right size is tricky - I bought a nintendo aluminium case which would actually work quite well!
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Hey Capn, just noticed that you got your N810!
Since it's been a few days now, hopefully you've gotten more accustomed to the keyboard...
What do you think now??
As I said in another post, the N810 is definitely a different animal than the Z.....
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So far I've been pretty disappointed:
-Keyboard still is irritating (will be better with remapping)
-SD slot is REALLY hard to remove cards from
-The filesystem is messed up (where the heck is "Documents"?!?)
-Debian won't boot yet, Angstrom won't boot, Poky's touchscreen won't work (in other words, the whole reason I got the N810 has been voided)
-No native compiler/dev tools
-Fanoush's initfs (required for SD booting) is difficult to make work
Other than that, the extra RAM is nice, and the screen is reminiscent of the ThinkPad's (which I like). Once some usable second-party distro boots, I'll be happier.
EDIT:
-getting root access is a pain
-interface eats too much RAM, is hard to customize
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So far I've been pretty disappointed:
-Keyboard still is irritating (will be better with remapping)
-SD slot is REALLY hard to remove cards from
-The filesystem is messed up (where the heck is "Documents"?!?)
-Debian won't boot yet, Angstrom won't boot, Poky's touchscreen won't work (in other words, the whole reason I got the N810 has been voided)
-No native compiler/dev tools
-Fanoush's initfs (required for SD booting) is difficult to make work
Other than that, the extra RAM is nice, and the screen is reminiscent of the ThinkPad's (which I like). Once some usable second-party distro boots, I'll be happier.
EDIT:
-getting root access is a pain
-interface eats too much RAM, is hard to customize
Gee, Capn, almost get the impression that you're not happy with the N810...
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The hardware: ~90-95% pleased
The software: ~30-45% pleased
So it ought to be nice with a new OS.
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I'd like to see some close ups of the sliding mechanism. There might be a way to extend the tracks a bit if it's plastic.
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-Keyboard still is irritating (will be better with remapping)
-SD slot is REALLY hard to remove cards from
-The filesystem is messed up (where the heck is "Documents"?!?)
-Debian won't boot yet, Angstrom won't boot, Poky's touchscreen won't work (in other words, the whole reason I got the N810 has been voided)
-No native compiler/dev tools
-Fanoush's initfs (required for SD booting) is difficult to make work
Other than that, the extra RAM is nice, and the screen is reminiscent of the ThinkPad's (which I like). Once some usable second-party distro boots, I'll be happier.
EDIT:
-getting root access is a pain
-interface eats too much RAM, is hard to customize
hmm, I'm sorry that my doubts have been confirmed. I have a 6000 - bought soon after an 860 - and I found the keyboard was irritating enough to drive me back to the 860.
documents? there's a MyDocs directory and in there are directories like .documents & .sounds & .videos where you put your data. I removed all the dirs and made them symlinks to the SD card. Yeah, no idea what joker thought of that one!
there's lots of good repos of software, for which you need to enable "red pill" mode (someone was a fan of the matrix), and this gives you access to lots of goodies (canola media player, games, utilities). hmm, can't find a native compiler myself. You'll have to learn Python :-)
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On the software note - from a user perspective and not a hackability perspective, I am actually happier with the OS2008 on N810 than the Zaurus.
The N810 allows me to do more in terms of daily life usage , than the Z in these areas
Skype/Gizmo
Chat online
Connect to Internet by 3G thru BT for constant internet access
Podcast support and listening and downloading - all in one device - on the Z it was a bit more difficult to do all .
Good Video and media player
Very good browser support and flash support - plus support for mobile versions of sites (and iPhone versions)
On hackability and tweaking perspective, the Z did allow more to be done. But again I always want to use my device first and then tweak and hack. The same was true on my Zaurus C1000. In that useage sense, I do like the N810 and what is provides right now.
Of course, I do miss many other aspects of the Zaurus , and do now and again fire up my Z.
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A co-worker of mine has a N770 and N800. He loves it and it does seem to have a lot of out of the box functionality and there are some cool projects being worked on for the NITs. I am a little dismayed at what I read about the hardware though. There is so much more potential for things like accelerated 3D, and superior video playback, but the device was not put together by Nokia to fully exploit this hardware, which is a little annoying. It is a cool device none the less.
I will stick with my Z for now and wait a bit longer to see if there is another hardware release from Nokia or how good the Neo1973 (screen seems a bit too tiny) when it is released.
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On the software note - from a user perspective and not a hackability perspective, I am actually happier with the OS2008 on N810 than the Zaurus.
The N810 allows me to do more in terms of daily life usage , than the Z in these areas
Skype/Gizmo
Chat online
Connect to Internet by 3G thru BT for constant internet access
Podcast support and listening and downloading - all in one device - on the Z it was a bit more difficult to do all .
Good Video and media player
Very good browser support and flash support - plus support for mobile versions of sites (and iPhone versions)
On hackability and tweaking perspective, the Z did allow more to be done. But again I always want to use my device first and then tweak and hack. The same was true on my Zaurus C1000. In that useage sense, I do like the N810 and what is provides right now.
Of course, I do miss many other aspects of the Zaurus , and do now and again fire up my Z.
You've highlighted things the Z will probably never have: Skype and Flash.
Skype could be a make or break deal for some; the SIP/VOIP clients on Zaurus, especially for Cacko, have not been magnificent, not sure if latest Ekiga or similar on Angstrom are good.
I've had bluetooth networking via PAN, and also using a 3G phone working just fine, it's just PPP over RFCOMM over BT!
There was a nice shoutcast client for QT; I think Quasar addressed many weaknesses.
The Nokia also has working sat nav, whereas the Z only has it using a hacked-up tomtom application.
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You've highlighted things the Z will probably never have: Skype and Flash.
Skype could be a make or break deal for some; the SIP/VOIP clients on Zaurus, especially for Cacko, have not been magnificent, not sure if latest Ekiga or similar on Angstrom are good.
I've had bluetooth networking via PAN, and also using a 3G phone working just fine, it's just PPP over RFCOMM over BT!
There was a nice shoutcast client for QT; I think Quasar addressed many weaknesses.
The Nokia also has working sat nav, whereas the Z only has it using a hacked-up tomtom application.
Very true and a good point you bought up about the GPS. Actually as a in-car device and in-pocket too the N810 doubles up pretty good.
In the car GPS and media player come in handy (am looking forward to Canola Car edition).
Actually for the Zaurus I invested in a Wifi Card, but held back from the BT card. True the Zaurus did offer this with the add-ons.
IN fact while I was a loud mouth supporting separate add-on expandability paradigm of the Zaurus, but now with the built-in wifi and BT on the N810, I am spoilt and feel foolish about my earlier stance. Makes you realize how viewpoints change with different perspectives.
On the promise of better things to come for the Nokia IT, I am looking forward to better QT support on the IT with Nokia purchase of Trolltech.
Also the noBounds project looks promising... and the supposed developments of Diablo (OS2008 revision) should stir up a few things.
And yes, I should mention, there is already a kernel hack to get rotation supported on OS2008. In fact Canola using this hack supports portrait mode media player too (don't know why Nokia left this out, all modern handheld OS's should support rotation).
BTW Capn_Fish, getting root access is as easy as installing one software (becomeroot) from the repositories. I didn't really find it that hard (except that its not in-built, maybe as a security concern).
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I already have root access, but why do you have to type "sudo gainroot" when "su" was invented? Seriously...
EDIT: That's a rhetorical question, BTW. I realize they probably have a good reason for it, but I STILL want to be able to simply "su"
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I already have root access, but why do you have to type "sudo gainroot" when "su" was invented? Seriously...
EDIT: That's a rhetorical question, BTW. I realize they probably have a good reason for it, but I STILL want to be able to simply "su"
"alias su sudo"
:-P
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Or, more to the point:
alias su "sudo gainroot"
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Or, more to the point:
alias su "sudo gainroot"
or even easier, on oss-xterm just create a toolbar shortcut to add a menu item for sudo gainroot (along with shortcuts for Tab, Esc, PgUp, PgDn, Ctrl). that way you don't need to type anything at all, just a click and you are in su mode.
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I have yet to figure out how to do that (one would think it would be easy, granted I have not searched the forum, not that that should be necessary, I have not tried overly hard yet).
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I have yet to figure out how to do that (one would think it would be easy, granted I have not searched the forum, not that that should be necessary, I have not tried overly hard yet).
From what I remember, install becomeroot. Pretty sure you need to be in red pill mode. Once that's installed, fire up the terminal and type sudo gainroot.
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I meant add stuff to the sidebar. Sorry for not being more specific.
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I meant add stuff to the sidebar. Sorry for not being more specific.
Ahhh I don't think anybody has figured that part out. Did they ever fix the size thing? With the 2007 os when you hit the menus with the stylus, they were stylus sized, when you hit them with your finger, they were finger sized. When 2008 came out every thing was finger sized all the time. A lot of stuff moved forward with the new os, some stuff went backwards. Nokia really doesn't listen to its users, so changes and updates are ungodly slow.
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Go into xTerminal.
Select main Menu -> Tools -> Settings
Click on Toolbar Shortcut
Add (New) a new shortcut
Title = Sudo (or whatever you want to name it)
Value = s . u . d . o . KP_Space . g . a . i . n . r . o . o . t . KP_Enter
The discussion on this and the above command to go into the shortcut command line is as per this thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=143956&postcount=18)
(Note : you dont need any additional software for this)
If you want a Menu in the side bar to lauch xterm and go into su mode at the same time, then install "Personal Menu" application.
You can then add custom commands to start any app you want from the sidebar itself. Pretty customizable app.
You can see my personal menu with the item X Terminal SUDO for launching from sidebar (method 2), as well as in the background the X Terminal itself with the toolbar shortcut SUDO added as explained in method 1.
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It appears I have hope yet for a new distro on the N810!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/24/nokia-i...u-and-qt-ports/ (http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/24/nokia-internet-tablets-to-get-ubuntu-and-qt-ports/)
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It appears I have hope yet for a new distro on the N810!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/24/nokia-i...u-and-qt-ports/ (http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/24/nokia-internet-tablets-to-get-ubuntu-and-qt-ports/)
Yeah!
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An update (long delayed): Debian runs quite nicely (much more so than Maemo, at least), and most everything works. The only things I can think of that are in progress/not working are the GPS and USB host (). USB host is close, or so I gather.
Hope somebody finds this interesting...
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An update (long delayed): Debian runs quite nicely (much more so than Maemo, at least), and most everything works. The only things I can think of that are in progress/not working are the GPS and USB host (). USB host is close, or so I gather.
Hope somebody finds this interesting...
yes, I do. ITT is a very busy site and I scan it quickly for interesting stuff but don't have the time to read more than a few percent of posts. I'm thinking of giving debian a go on my n800, before I flash to Diablo, seeing as how reports suggest you really do want to start from scratch otherwise things don't work properly.
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I actually flashed Diablo right before doing the new-style Debian install. A couple of users have made a set of scripts that automatically set up the rootfs and stuff, you can read the how-to (a bit lacking IIRC) here:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Debian_for_NITs_development (http://wiki.maemo.org/Debian_for_NITs_development)
You do need a bunch of non-Diablo repos if you do it from Diablo (basically the Chinook counterparts to the default Diablo repos).