OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joshp on March 22, 2004, 06:43:16 pm
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I need some help choosing witch zaurus to buy.
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Keyboard and lanscape editting are tops for the 860. The only thing I truly envy with the 6000, is the transflective screen.
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Have not seen the 6000 screen.
Would not be willing to give up on quality of the C860 screen just for better outddoor. Is it as good ?
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Which flavour of 6000? I\'m eagerly awaiting the US debut of the SL-6000W, but I think that has more to do with my individual needs (wireless connectivity) and taste (I like the tablet form factor; I think a PDA should be what it is and not a Barbie-doll size laptop.) than with the inherent superiority of one device over the other.
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I think a PDA should be what it is and not a Barbie-doll size laptop
But the Z isn\'t a PDA at all, it\'s a Personal Mobile Tool
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The 6000 is superior in many ways...
Primarily a larger 4\" tranflective screen - the screen is the best part, and the extra few fractions of an inch add to the viewing ease greatly.
USB host feature - this expands the 6000 to a true laptop replacement much more than the 860
support for 1xRtt networks out of the box - of course if its a software only thing can be extended to the 860 as well.
I dont mention built-in wifi and bluetooth - since thats just a question of an add-on with the 860 and doesnt reaaly serve as a differentiating factor between the two models in terms of feature avalability.
The keyboard of course is a plus point for the 860 - so if a lot of typing needs are involved - the 860 edges the 6000 in that department
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I dont mention built-in wifi and bluetooth - since thats just a question of an add-on with the 860
Not if one wants both (and maybe even another CF-based add-on like 1xRTT) without carrying and constantly shuffling a deck of cards!
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if you want both, you can have that on the 6000 courtesy the add-on sleeve, not on the 860 of course.
But then you obviously can\'t want to have a Bluetooth, Wifi and 1xRTT expansion all at the same time surely.
My only dislike of built-in wifi (or BT) is the building in of obsoleteness into the machine. As the wifi standards change and emerge, the older device with the built-in standard becomes obsolete (remember the fixed batteries of older PDA\'s - as the battery died you had to throw the PDA away basically). I would not want the same to happen with built-in standards - expandibility is always a more open option.
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But then you obviously can\'t want to have a Bluetooth, Wifi and 1xRTT expansion all at the same time surely.
Not all three at the same moment, but I\'d like to be able to move from areas of cellular phone connectivity to areas of WiFi connectivity more seamlessly than having to eject and insert CF cards. Also, the 6000W has the potential to be the ultimate convergence device--with CF add-on cell connectivity, the device can act as a speakerphone, or if you need privacy, just take the call on your BT headset. No cell coverage in your office? Use VoIP, and you\'re connected again, via speakerphone or headset as you please.
I realise this is very ambitious and would require the right software, but the combination of Sharp\'s H/W and existing connectivity technology infrastructure make it possible, for the first time AFAIK.
As for the obselesence of the built-in BT and WiFI, I think the device\'s core H/W will be obsolete long before 802.11b and/or BT1.1 are thrown on the ash heap of history.
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I have a 5500 and would buy ANYTHING that would allow me to use this thing for straight up VT-100 ability to the serial port. If the 860 can do that, I would buy it. Not because of glitz, but ability. After all, it is SUPPOSED to be a personal mobile tool. :?
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860 all the way. The clamshell 0wns !!!!!
First, while the 6000 screen may be even better, the 860 screen is still the best Ive seen to date. It more than gets the job done, \'cept those days where im wireless hacking at the beach
RE:built in wifi......well what would I do with all these cool Cf cards I have laying around if i had built in wifi???? Whats blue tooth????
While I still love my 5500, I noticed to often that when I was actualy working on it I prefered to use the landscape view. The problem with that is if you are trying to type....you got the keyboard facing one way and the screen the opposite. It just isnt the best arrangement.
The clamshell form factor just plain kicks @ss over the standard PDA designs, Zaurus sl-5000 through sl-6000 or otherwise.
just my .02
jrsjkd
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The 6000 would be my choice. I did see it at the Linux World IBM booth and fell in love with the screen.
I prefer the pad or tablet layout of the 5000D, 5500 & the 6000 over the clamshell designs. For me, clamshell designs make sense when the key centers are .6\" or better. Less than that, and I can not touch type anyway.
As for built-in obsolescence, my handhelds typically last 2 years, so I don\'t worry about it.
My preference here may not matter. I am, for the first since Nov 2001, thinking of getting a PocketPC handheld. Though I love the power and flexibility of my Zaurii, Sharp\'s lack of interest in their own product line scares me. The recent shutdown of DevNet is further evidence of their indifference to their own product.
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Flash: RE vt100, me too (that and Cisco consoles). Try here http://serialio.com/products/adaptors/ZThinCable.htm (http://serialio.com/products/adaptors/ZThinCable.htm)
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I wonder if it would be possible to build a clamshell \"accessory\" that fits into the 6000 expansion sleeve slot and gives you a landscape keyboard.
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with usb host, anything coulb be possible
I wonder if it would be possible to build a clamshell \"accessory\" that fits into the 6000 expansion sleeve slot and gives you a landscape keyboard.
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I havent actually seen either a 860 or a 6000, but I have seen and played with the 5600 in Fry\'s Electronics (should have seen the store clerk when I showed him how to reboot into a Linux console) and was incredibly inpressed with it. I have been enlightened by the ZUG and other media how powerful the Z can be. I am thinking I will go with the 6000 mainly because of the screen and the USB Host (although usefulness of the USB host is still unproven). I have been using my Handspring Prism like 2-3? years (160 x 160 16 bit Screen, Whopping 8 Meg Ram 33 MHZ FEEL THE POWER) But I still may wait longer for the New Intel 520 MHZ based PDAs to come out as I am still using my Prism now. ASUS is to use the new Intel chip in there new MyPal A730, and I am assuming that the future Z\'s will have this soon as well (maby a SL-6500???). I think I have hit the Limit for Palm OS functional use. I am eager to see what Palm OS 6 can do, but I dont think it will rival Linux, but I do think it may give Win CE a run for its money.
just some of my strange thoughts...
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well the wild fantasy would be for the next 960 version to have all the features of the 6000.
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Thanks all for input.
JP
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After starting with a sharp wizard in 95, I have went through several different pda(Other wizards, Handspring Visors, and now a Handspring Treo). I thouhgt my wizard was kewl when I got it. Though I have to say I never really like the keyboard. It was to small to every be worth while to uses. No matter if I end up getting a SL-6000W or SL-C860 I will still uses an external keyboard with it. Hte rest of the time I will uses some kind of had recegnition.
Though still the built in WiFi and bluetooth is one of the main reason I will go with a 6000 over a 860. This leaves my cf slot open for what every I may want to put in there and still be able to connect to a wireless netowrk and have a bluetooth headset, keyboard, and mouse...I guess I see alot more options with the 6000 then I can with a C860...though if sharp comes out with a C that has all of the same features as the 6000 I will have to think about which one I will be getting at the beginning of march when I finally have the monty for a Z...
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[No matter if I end up getting a SL-6000W[/quote]
Sadly, its starting to look doubtful that Sharp will release this model outside Japan, based on rumors I\'ve been hearing. I had the same frustration looking at subnotebooks -- many manufacturers seem to be shying away from putting bluetooth in their US offerings.
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...many manufacturers seem to be shying away from putting bluetooth in their US offerings.
Why? They don\'t like making money? With all the worthless pseudo-features for which American consumers are willing to fork over their cash, why wouldn\'t a manufacturer want to distinguish their product by adding such a useful, functional feature?
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...many manufacturers seem to be shying away from putting bluetooth in their US offerings.
Why? They don\'t like making money? With all the worthless pseudo-features for which American consumers are willing to fork over their cash, why wouldn\'t a manufacturer want to distinguish their product by adding such a useful, functional feature?
How many people in the US do you think know what buletooth is. For that mater how my know what wifi is. People in the us what things like a palm pilot, easy to use with no room for error. Granted the T2 does come with buletooth, however the T3 seems to be selling more. Now how many people in the US do you think want to spend the time leareing howto us the zaurus, and how to get the most out of buletooth. Whan thay can just go and get a Palm or a M$ device. The zaurus bets both of tham, but whan was the last time you walked into a Best Buy and saw a zaurus next to a palm pilot, sharp never markted the zaurus. Even though the zaurus is a better pda than any other on the market the laearing cruve for it is to large if your not used to linux.
JP
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On anthore note what roms are avable for sl-c860, and how well do that work?
JP
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Why? They don\'t like making money? With all the worthless pseudo-features for which American consumers are willing to fork over their cash, why wouldn\'t a manufacturer want to distinguish their product by adding such a useful, functional feature?
I think it hasn\'t sold well so far. Many of the Japanese subnotebook manufacturers (Sony, Fujitsu, etc) had models with bluetooth last year. But the current models don\'t. Draw your own conclusions. The still offer bluetooth in their Japanese models. Interestingly, US companies like HP and Dell are still offering bluetooth. I don\'t really know what to make of that, actually.
Lets hope some of Sharp/IBM\'s enterprise customers convince them they need to release the 6000w in the US because thats the only way its going to happen.
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I wonder if it would be possible to build a clamshell \"accessory\" that fits into the 6000 expansion sleeve slot and gives you a landscape keyboard.
with usb host, anything could be possible
Why waste a perfectly good USB port, and require an annoying cable? No, I\'m thinking of a sleeve attachment, into which the 6000 attaches via the sleeve connector. (look at the pictures carefully, you\'ll see a sleeve attachment port much like the iPaq 3xxx and 5xxx series have.) The extra advantage of this is you could get a very snug fit, where the sleeve and Zaurus function as one, which means it could be operated standing up like the Cxxx Zaurii. Even better, this attachment could be manufactured by anyone, not necessarily Sharp. And it would make the 6000 a superior device to the Cxxx in every respect.
Of course, I\'m dreaming here, but it IS possible.
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How many people in the US do you think know what buletooth is. For that mater how my know what wifi is. People in the us what things like a palm pilot, easy to use with no room for error. Granted the T2 does come with buletooth, however the T3 seems to be selling more. Now how many people in the US do you think want to spend the time leareing howto us the zaurus, and how to get the most out of buletooth. Whan thay can just go and get a Palm or a M$ device. The zaurus bets both of tham, but whan was the last time you walked into a Best Buy and saw a zaurus next to a palm pilot, sharp never markted the zaurus. Even though the zaurus is a better pda than any other on the market the laearing cruve for it is to large if your not used to linux.
JP
Actually, I think BT is ripe for the US consumer market:
1.) No searching/shopping for \"the right cable,\"
2.) Fairly \"idiot-proof\" configuration: enter the same number on two devices, and they\'re connected for life.
I think BT pairing (in general, not necessarily on the Z) is probably easier than getting on any WiFi network that\'s secured in any way, and BT doesn\'t suck batteries dry like WiFi.
I agree that Sharp doesn\'t seem to know what \"marketing\" is, but I\'d expect savvier manufacturers to boost their BT products with slogans like \"surf wirelessly anywhere you have cellular service\" (for GSM, at least, and the 10,000 of us with T608).
I don\'t think linux is what\'s holding the Z back (at least from a useability standpoint; software availability is another matter); unless you install the \"Expert Only\" terminal client, you\'ll never even see a shell prompt!
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Your right linux is not whats holding the Z back. Lack of \"markting\" form sharp, as wall as sharps shity programming ie. \" sd module\" has realy hald the Z back. The US market is to use to Palm and M$ devicis to pay the Z a closer look. And the fact that sharp never rellesd a clamshell Z for the US does not help much. The Z is more powerfull than any other PDA/PDM on the market only becouse peaple install the \"Export Only\" shall prompt and start hacking; to the non computer person the Z looks like any other Palm or M$ device.
JP
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I think apart from Sharp marketing there is the fact that educating US users is a very tough task and requires big money.
And as long as you hide the fact that the Zaurus uses linux to the users, then the Zaurus has to compete with Microsoft and Palms on the same merits - software avalability, ease of use and plain simple suck factor. I think its the fact the it runs Linux which makes it so attractive - sadly only to us geeks.
The US consumers (and friends I know who qualify as general guys) are generally pretty unaware of technology - they cant differentiate between a IE or Opera, in fact dont even know what Opera is, dont know what a bluetooth technology is really about (except that its some wierd wireless technology), are confused when it comes to difference between GSM, CDMA etc, are totally lost with terms like 1xRTT (i cant blame them there), cant see the use of telnet or FTP or SSH, cant be bothered with a console, let alone a file manager on a PDA. Do they even understand what a USB host is for ?
So there you go, all the plus points of the zaurus are lost on the general users. This is one reason why the Zaurus fails aganst the palms and other devices - no big name attached to them (vis-a-vis the US users) and all the strengths of the Zaurus are lost on them. I guess Sharp cant afford to spend money educating them firstly and then selling them to educated buyers.
They would much ratehr sell to a captive audience - Japanese usres and Corporate enterprise guys.
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The US consumers cant differentiate between a IE or Opera, in fact dont even know what Opera is, dont know what a bluetooth technology is really about (except that its some wierd wireless technology), are confused when it comes to difference between GSM, CDMA etc, are totally lost with terms like 1xRTT
So there you go, all the plus points of the zaurus are lost on the general users.
I think I\'m pretty close to being a general guy--one of the turnoffs of desktop linuces is the constant tinkering to get working things that (usually) \"just work\" in Windoze.
However, I think there are advantages of the Zaurus that can be made apparent to average users. Most of my colleagues don\'t know WTH Opera is, but they do understand I have the only PDA at my hospital that can provide all the security features required to access online medical records. \"Bluetooth\" may not mean anything to Joe sixpack, but being able to check email or surf the web anywhere his cellphone works probably will.
Further, the Z is very strong in the hardware department--the CF slot, basically extinct in the world of PPC/Palm, makes the Z nearly as extensible as a laptop--modem, ethernet, WiFi, BT, camera, GPS all come in CF packages, and rarely in SDIO. Even those few SDIO devices are often useless for want of drivers--witness the Palm WiFi fiasco (the primary reason I bailed on Palm). Also, the ubiquitous keyboards on Z\'s--even the tiny ones--are a huge advantage for answering email on the go.
These are all advantages that US consumers will \"get,\" if Sharp would articulate them.
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I like the form factor of the 860.. with the clamshell for input, or folded over for bigscreen PDA style. But, built-in BlueTooth and WiFi in the 6000 is really nice. I currently use a CF Wifi card in my 5500 as an access point detector. When I\'m travelling, I whip out my Z to see if there are open AP\'s, rather than pulling out the laptop. -- If the Wifi software on the Z was better, this would be a great feature. As it is now, it\'s a bit spotty. I\'m hoping the WiFi software for the 6000 improves this.
The Bluetooth feature is nice too. I have a 15\" PowerBook G4, and bluetooth is a very convenient feature. No cables to lug around. I use it for a keyboard and mouse input, and I bought a Palm Tungsten T to use with it. Sync\'s great with iSync. My current phone is not bluetooth capable, but when my commitment ends, I\'m switching to one that does. BT sync to both my PowerBook and PDA will be great, not to mention Internet access via BT in areas without WiFi.
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However, I think there are advantages of the Zaurus that can be made apparent to average users. Most of my colleagues don\'t know WTH Opera is, but they do understand I have the only PDA at my hospital that can provide all the security features required to access online medical records. \"Bluetooth\" may not mean anything to Joe sixpack, but being able to check email or surf the web anywhere his cellphone works probably will.
[...]
These are all advantages that US consumers will \"get,\" if Sharp would articulate them.
Your hospital is an enterprise market. That is exactly what Sharp is going after. The #1 mobile phone provider in the US is Verizon. No supported Bluetooth phones there. Sharp is doing exactly what the market dictates to them.
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Your hospital is an enterprise market. That is exactly what Sharp is going after. The #1 mobile phone provider in the US is Verizon. No supported Bluetooth phones there. Sharp is doing exactly what the market dictates to them.
If they\'re after my hospital, they\'re not doing so well--remember, I have the only PDA with Opera. It impresses, but the end is usually \"Zaur...what? I\'ve never even heard of one of those. I got my Palm at Circuit City!\"
And actually, Verizon is about to offer a bluetooth phone. (http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=787)
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I wonder if it would be possible to build a clamshell \"accessory\" that fits into the 6000 expansion sleeve slot and gives you a landscape keyboard.
I have one of those accessories (sic) it is called a Pocketop IR Keyboard
And I can touch type on it. IRK 0.11.0 works great on my new SL-6000
Craig...
[OK, so the keyboard isn\'t really attached, but it has way cool factor]