OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => 6000 - Tosa => Topic started by: Ethereal on April 01, 2004, 07:52:04 pm
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When I first heard the word on the street about the 6000 series, I was determined to go first class and get a W, with double-barrelled connectivity and a CF slot to spare for...something else. However, given that the \"bird in the hand\" for US consumers is the 6000L, I\'m contemplating just sticking a bluetooth card in the CF slot and calling it \"enough\"--especially since BT can provide internet connectivity, PAN, and GPS.
What\'s everyone\'s take? How much more functionality does the W really bring with it?
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How much more functionality does the W really bring with it?
That\'s an easy one. Bluetooth.
As far as I can tell from the FCC manuals, there\'s no other difference. So, whether the W is worth it depends entirely on how badly you want built in bluetooth. The advantages of having it built in, as you already noted, are that the CF slot stays free. Another advantage is that its already there... no need to worry about leaving the card at home, or finding a place to put it in your carry pouch. And of course, you don\'t need to worry about buying a model that isn\'t compatible. For me, I have two uses for bluetooth: One is to connect to through the internet via my cell phone. The other is (potentially) to connect a keyboard like device for use in landscape mode. A lesser use might be to connect and exchange files with my laptop more easily.
Right now i\'m holding out for a device thats a little more \"perfect\". People say how much better the C series clamshells are, I\'m not a believer yet but perhaps I would become one if I saw one in person. But I would still want a model with built in wireless. Since the 6000W is already available in Japan, its not a big strech to believe they would put those features in a clamshell form factor in the next few months.
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How much more functionality does the W really bring with it?
That\'s an easy one. Bluetooth.
OK, I guess I should have been more concrete: given that adding BT to the 6000L (which I would do immediately if I were to get one) means filling the CF slot, how much potential expansibility is really lost by having a handheld with WiFi and BT, but no open CF slot, compared with having both wireless modes and an open CF slot? Or, if you had an SL-6000W, what would you plug into the CF slot? My candidates would be:
1.) GPS, which can also be done via BT;
2.) Camera, but I don\'t know how much the Sharp CF camera really adds to a Z\'s usefulness;
3.) 1xRTT card, which has the potential to turn the Z into the ultimate convergence device, but that would depend on the right software and the right support from Sprint\'s infrastructure. (Sprint has already announced intentions to support wireless data via a CF card for the Z, but has not commented on voice functionality.) This would definitely make the wait for the 6000W worthwhile, but given Sprint\'s rather...unimaginative attitude toward other precedent-setters like the T608, it feels like pie-in-the-sky.
As for the clamshells, I\'m happy for those who love them, but I have no interest in a handheld device that requires the full-time dedication of both hands to operate. Although, of course, using the keyboard or stylus requires both hands, I can navigate around QTopia passably well with just the D-pad and buttons under one thumb.
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Ethereal, as far as I understand your post, you have two options without any significant tradeoffs:
a) buy a SL-6000W in Japan and put an English SL-6000L -Rom on it
buy a SL-6000L and a nice BT-cf-card AND the sleeve (with the cf-slot) and decide on the cf-card issue later. The bt-card I have doesn\'t stick out of the Zaurus and you could just leave it in there. Only by actually using the device you can be sure, which options you\'ll need most.
For myself, I\'d be happy with a cf-card NOT sticking out of my C860 ;-)
cheers,
Kathrin
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I have to say I really like the idea of getting SL-6000W just because I would like to start using bluetoooth since I can see lots of uses that it maybe worth having. Though at the same time I look at the few things that are avalible bluetooth at this time and I wonder if any of the things I would like to have will every come into reality(bluetooth portable keyboard being on of the first things to come to mind). The other things I would want to uses bluetooth for on the 6000 would be fore a bluetooth headset with a GSM cf card to turn my Z into my phone(If this is even possable).
Also has anyone seen a place you can by the sleeve at yet? That maybe my answer to getting the 6000L till I have figured out if I really want to uses bluetooth and then seeing what is avalible then and upgrade.
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will every come into reality(bluetooth portable keyboard being on of the first things to come to mind)
There are plenty of portable bluetooth keyboards in the pipeline for 2004.
See, for example: http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4457.html (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4457.html)
The bt-card I have doesn\'t stick out of the Zaurus
Which card is that?
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I\'m also looking to \"cell-phone\" my Z using a BT headset.
As for the 1xRTT I thought I read that using the Sprint service you can roam freely and seemlessly between W-LAN and W-WAN.?
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The bt-card I have doesn\'t stick out of the Zaurus
Which card is that?
The NOKIA Connectivity Card DTL-1 Bluetooth CF. Very cheap ;-)
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I think I will go for the 6000L, but I am going to wait a few months to decide, need to see the final pricing after the \"new\" wears off.
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will every come into reality(bluetooth portable keyboard being on of the first things to come to mind)
There are plenty of portable bluetooth keyboards in the pipeline for 2004.
See, for example: http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4457.html (http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4457.html)
That is one of the things I needed to see...Seeing this may help me wait for the 6000W(I am also still $200 away from having enough money saved)...I like my IR keyboard, but it is to much of a pain to keep it in the right place to make it work..
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The bt-card I have doesn\'t stick out of the Zaurus
Which card is that?
The NOKIA Connectivity Card DTL-1 Bluetooth CF. Very cheap ;-)
Who has it for sale?
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Ethereal, as far as I understand your post, you have two options without any significant tradeoffs:
a) buy a SL-6000W in Japan and put an English SL-6000L -Rom on it
Tradeoff: $$$ (It\'s about 1K :shock: USD to have one of the anglicising firms import a Japanese 6000W, and I have yet to find a Japanese retailer that will sell/ship overseas.)
buy a SL-6000L and a nice BT-cf-card AND the sleeve (with the cf-slot) and decide on the cf-card issue later.
Tradeoff: Although I haven\'t seen a photo of the anticipated expansion sleeve, it\'s going to make a fairly large (by handheld standards) device even larger, to some extent.
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I have basically decided to bail on getting a new Zaurus since they failed to come out with a Bluetooth model. Between this and the development site going away, I am totally disappointed. Just a few months ago, I was excited about the SL-6000W, the developer site was fairly active and there still seemed to be minor software updates in the works for my SL-5500.
If I bought the SL-6000L, I\'d be out another $130 for a Bluetooth card, for which there probably isn\'t software for yet on the 6000, and I\'d have to hack around just to get it to work. In a few months, I\'ll probably be able to get two Palm OS 6 devices for the same price, with the features I want, from a company that supports their developer community.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but why buy a PDA from a company that is barely acknowledging the device\'s existance?
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Tradeoff: Although I haven\'t seen a photo of the anticipated expansion sleeve, it\'s going to make a fairly large (by handheld standards) device even larger, to some extent.
Yeah, but I believe it also includes a battery that effectively triples(?) the device\'s battery life. Very nice, IMHO.
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3.) 1xRTT card, which has the potential to turn the Z into the ultimate convergence device
Maybe this not making the SL-6000W available is a gimmick to get people to buy the 1xRTT card. Maybe someone like Sprint even paid Sharp off to go that route.
Using Bluetooth with a 1xRTT Bluetooth phone is a much more flexible solution.
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Using Bluetooth with a 1xRTT Bluetooth phone is a much more flexible solution.
Yeah, and I have a T608, but that adds up to 2 devices on the belt instead of just one--not at all prohibitive, but not ideal...
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I have yet to find a Japanese retailer that will sell/ship overseas.)
I bought my C750 from a Japanese retailer on ebay. He says he can ship the 6000W for around $910, but he claims there\'s not much demand for them. (at $910, I\'m not surprized). But if you\'re interested I can send you his email address.
Cheers,
Jerry
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I have yet to find a Japanese retailer that will sell/ship overseas.)
I bought my C750 from a Japanese retailer on ebay. He says he can ship the 6000W for around $910, but he claims there\'s not much demand for them. (at $910, I\'m not surprized). But if you\'re interested I can send you his email address.
Cheers,
Jerry
Why is it so expensive? Incredible! :shock:
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I have yet to find a Japanese retailer that will sell/ship overseas.)
I bought my C750 from a Japanese retailer on ebay. He says he can ship the 6000W for around $910, but he claims there\'s not much demand for them. (at $910, I\'m not surprized). But if you\'re interested I can send you his email address.
Cheers,
Jerry
The pricing is really a bummer. I\'d considred getting a 6000w for the bluetooth and the transreflective screen, but a 900 bucks it\'s definitly a no go.
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Maybe this not making the SL-6000W available is a gimmick to get people to buy the 1xRTT card. :( Maybe someone like Sprint even paid Sharp off to go that route.
Maybe Bluetooth isn\'t a compelling feature in the US marketplace...
I\'m quite interested in the 6000L. I thought I might like clamshell that one Sharp engineer carried around with him but the vertical/flat orientation is familiar to me (and the bulk of the marketplace).
Honestly I am more interested in the built-in 802.11b than the presence/absence of BT. But then I\'m a thin client application developer who needs network connectivity like fish need water. I also work out of T-Mobile hotspots more often than not (Proof of my affliction (http://qs321.pair.com/~monkads/index.pl?node_id=312185)) and buying another add-in card is not a pleasant thought. Which makes me sympathize with you BT lovers/needers.
The other thing that interests me is now that the WiFi is built-in does the unit (hardware/software) work more efficiently with finer control to preserve battery life longer? The same question would hold true for BT built-in vs add-on.
I see myself making a purchase in the near future. Probably after I get the wife a new dining table to ease her pain a bit...
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Maybe Bluetooth isn\'t a compelling feature in the US marketplace...
It seems as thought all the Japanese manufacturers think so. When I was shopping for a subnotebook recently, I noticed that none of the japanese offerings had built-in bluetooth, but in many cases, the same notebook imported from Japan did have it. Some of last years US models did have it. So my guess is, that they included bluetooth in one product cycle, it didn\'t sell that well, so they gave up.
(Does Sony still sell any Clie\'s with BT? That\'s about the only exception I can think of)
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Maybe Bluetooth isn\'t a compelling feature in the US marketplace...
(Does Sony still sell any Clie\'s with BT? That\'s about the only exception I can think of)
My understanding is that Sony is specifically not including Bluetooth in some of their Clie US models (TH55 for example).
The simple fact of the matter is that the average US consumer has no idea that Bluetooth even exists, let alone what it can be used for. You can\'t be compelled by something which you don\'t know exists.
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The simple fact of the matter is that the average US consumer has no idea that Bluetooth even exists, let alone what it can be used for. You can\'t be compelled by something which you don\'t know exists.
They may not know what \"Bluetooth\" is, but whatever it\'s called, they would understand \"check email or surf the web from anywhere that you have cell service,\" if only Sharp (or another manufacturer) would articulate the advantages of BT technology.
Consumers (OK, some of them) \"get\" the usefulness of WiFi for their mobile devices, even though it accelerates battery drain and requires someone else (your workplace, your favorite Starbucks, etc) to supply the infrastructure to use it. Bluetooth is the mobile data connectivity standard for the \"rugged individualist\" who wants internet access wherever he is, not just while drinking a $6 latte.
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The simple fact of the matter is that the average US consumer has no idea that Bluetooth even exists, let alone what it can be used for. You can\'t be compelled by something which you don\'t know exists.
They may not know what \"Bluetooth\" is, but whatever it\'s called, they would understand \"check email or surf the web from anywhere that you have cell service,\" if only Sharp (or another manufacturer) would articulate the advantages of BT technology.
Oops. That\'s not what BlueTooth is nor what it does. BlueTooth is a peripheral connection technology that replaces short cables that tangle, clutter and become sentient (under my desk, anyway). You can use BT connections to do the things you suggest but you by no means need BT to do them; in fact, having BT alone won\'t allow you to check email wherever you have cell service -- you still need a phone and a service plan that allows you to check email. The same can be done with a cable.
Consumers (OK, some of them) \"get\" the usefulness of WiFi for their mobile devices, even though it accelerates battery drain and requires someone else (your workplace, your favorite Starbucks, etc) to supply the infrastructure to use it. Bluetooth is the mobile data connectivity standard for the \"rugged individualist\" who wants internet access wherever he is, not just while drinking a $6 latte.
I really don\'t know what you are referring to here. Without some kind of access provider you\'re dead in the water with either 802.11b or BT or CAT5, or Coax, or... you get the idea, I hope.
So perhaps its not quite true that the average US consumer has no idea what BT is or what it allows one to do. Maybe some of the above average consummers have trouble, too. :wink:
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BT is so overpriced it is ridiculous. I\'ve been eye it to rid myself of a large tangle of cables but the sticker shock makes me retreat away and stick with the cables.
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Oops. That\'s not what BlueTooth is nor what it does.
You obviously don\'t work in marketing.
The way to get customers to want to buy some technological mumbo-jumbo is to give examples of useful scenerios where the technology plays a part.
Not to tell the guy \"what it is and does.\"
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BT is so overpriced it is ridiculous. I\'ve been eye it to rid myself of a large tangle of cables but the sticker shock makes me retreat away and stick with the cables.
Chicken and egg. Supply and demand. Price comes down when its mass produced and everything has a cheap bluetooth chip in it.
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I\'ve got a 6000L and wanted bluetooth as well, and also didn\'t want to give up the CF or SD slots while I was using bluetooth. So I just plugged in my trusty AirCable bluetooth (which uses the connector on the bottom), set it up and am able to connect fine to my bluetooth phone. Just like on my 5600.
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I think the W version will come out soon in the US, All three versions has diffrent release dates in Japan as well, so i just assume the US will be similar.
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BlueTooth is a peripheral connection technology that replaces short cables that tangle
OK, fine. Actually, Bluetooth was a Viking, or is a 2.4 Ghz spread-spectrum radio communication technology based upon a set of standardised profiles...etc, but no consumer is any more interested in that than in seeing schematics of a clock radio before buying one.
While there are countless \"end user\" things that Bluetooth does, including command dialing, virtual LAN, file transfer, and wireless audio, the \"killer app\" (based both on what I read in tech publications and my own personal experience with friends and colleagues marveling \"and you can use it to connect...anywhere?...anywhere?) for BT connectivity seems to be mobile internet via cell phone.
True, one must have a BT-enabled cell phone from a provider that offers data services, but that\'s not an incredibly difficult thing, unless (like me) one demands CDMA coverage as well. Word on the street (I don\'t use GSM, so I can\'t speak from experience) is that T-Mo permits HTTP access without even paying for a data plan, and a large number of GSM phones are BT-enabled, even if those buying and using them don\'t know it. CDMA is catching up, slowly: Verizon will soon be offering a Motorola CDMA phone with BT that was recently approved by the FCC.
Without some kind of access provider you\'re dead in the water with either 802.11b or BT or CAT5, or Coax,
True, but BT is the most convenient way (who wants to carry a cable to connect their PDA and cell phone?) to get access from a \"provider\" that can provide access that reaches farther than the exit door at Starbucks.
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If you want BT access but want to keep your CF slot open, then use this aircard that connects to the serial (cradle) port of your zaurus. I am thinking this should work with the 6000.
I almost forgot to add the link...
http://www.aircable.net/AIRcable/ZaurusCell.html (http://www.aircable.net/AIRcable/ZaurusCell.html)
-punjester
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the \"killer app\" (based both on what I read in tech publications and my own personal experience with friends and colleagues marveling \"and you can use it to connect...anywhere?...anywhere?) for BT connectivity seems to be mobile internet via cell phone.
Indeed! You can pry my T608 from my cold, dead, hands. It\'s the reason I\'ve decided I won\'t buy another computing device w/out built-in bluetooth. Part of the problem is, I don\'t use it EVERY day (because I have wifi at home and at school), and so I don\'t want to be stuck somewhere and realize \"woops, I left my bluetooth card on the desk at home\"
then use this aircard
Thanks for the idea, I hadn\'t heard of that before. Looks a little bulky though.
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My understanding is that Sony is specifically not including Bluetooth in some of their Clie US models (TH55 for example).
I just checked Sony\'s website. The UX50, at least, does have dual WiFi/bluetooth. If I ever decide to get a PalmOS handheld, that\'s probably the one.
Now, a C860 + built in wifi + bluetooth, well now, one can dream. That would be worth paying the import tax.
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I was just thinking could it be possible to attach a usb-BT on sl-6000L? There are quite small ones available, so it could be \"hidden\" for example in the case (if got one) with a short cable, and it would\'n stick out. I live in Finland, so the price wouldn\'t be much higher (vat. 22% here) if I ordered the W-model from Japan. but first I\'d have to be sure that I can convert it to english...
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Sorry folks, but there is no point in having a PDA if you have to carry around a bunch of accessories (USB/serial Bluetooth dongle, etc.) just to use it.
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Talking about importing 6K-W from Japan: What do you think should it be possible to use the rom from the 6K-L to convert the \"W\"-model to english? Is there some kind of a rom on the CD that comes with the 6K-L?
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Talking about importing 6K-W from Japan: What do you think should it be possible to use the rom from the 6K-L to convert the \"W\"-model to english? Is there some kind of a rom on the CD that comes with the 6K-L?
I don\'t think the ROM comes with it on the CD, but it should be possible (not that I know the particulars) to \"extract\" the ROM installed on the 6000L and package it for re-installation. However, I do not know what Bluetoth chipset is used on the 6000W. If it is not supported by the Bluez drivers, there would be no (English) support for the very functionality it was imported for in the first place!
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I think the W will sell in the US too, so dont worry...
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I sent an inquiry to Sharp yesterday from sharpusa.com about the SL-6000W availability. :?
The answer: they don\'t know if (and when) it will eventually be available in US. :?
But in my opinion it should be available in 1 month more or less. Commercially speaking if they would know that it will never be shipped, they would say this, to get sales directed to the currently available SL-6000L... wouldn\'t they? :wink:
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Commercially speaking if they would know that it will never be shipped, they would say this, to get sales directed to the currently available SL-6000L... wouldn\'t they? :wink:
What Sharp management doesn\'t know about marketing is dwarfed only by what Sharp CSR\'s don\'t know about the products they \"support.\"