OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Gemini PDA => Gemini PDA - General Discussion => Topic started by: SimonL on January 03, 2018, 09:36:58 am
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Has anyone heard if mass production has started yet? I believe the plan was for it to start on 1st January but I’ve not heard anything to confirm this.
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Has anyone heard if mass production has started yet? I believe the plan was for it to start on 1st January but I’ve not heard anything to confirm this.
Yes, according to this update they should already have started the production, though I have not found any recent confirmation for this:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-p...374#/updates/36 (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/17922374#/updates/36)
It would be unfortunate if they have missed this deadline, since in this case they won't have any final revision of the device on show during the CES.
Varti
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Has anyone heard if mass production has started yet? I believe the plan was for it to start on 1st January but I’ve not heard anything to confirm this.
Yes, according to this update they should already have started the production, though I have not found any recent confirmation for this:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-p...374#/updates/36 (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/17922374#/updates/36)
It would be unfortunate if they have missed this deadline, since in this case they won't have any final revision of the device on show during the CES.
Varti
Fingers crossed that they’re well into it then, and that we’ll get our units soon!
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well, as Czech keyboard is not designed yet, I do not believe too much for January deliveries ... :-(
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well, as Czech keyboard is not designed yet, I do not believe too much for January deliveries ... :-(
That's interesting, was this news from an official comment from Planet?
It might be that just not all keyboards are ready, so they'll for now start shipping only the units that have a ready layout.
Varti
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I am sure they said production will start on 7th jan
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well, as Czech keyboard is not designed yet, I do not believe too much for January deliveries ... :-(
That's interesting, was this news from an official comment from Planet?
No, this is not the official statement, so I presume they probably start shipping on first-comes first-serves basis (I backed them in spring 2017) and start with "ready" keyboards. I do not know how much work/delay is in defining the keys on HW
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I am sure they said production will start on 7th jan
The most recent update stated that the mass production cycle would run from 1st to 7th January. That was back in November, however, and all seems to have gone quiet. It would be good to hear something official at some point to say that production has indeed commenced, but my concern would be that Planet's lack of updates would suggest that not everything is going to plan.
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From reading posts over at the Pyra handheld forum about all the trials and tribulations getting PCB boards, RAM, cases, keyboards, etc, all debugged and working just right, I would guess the Planet folks are probably crazy busy doing QC work to make sure all turns out well for us an them...
As I just ordered yesterday I assume my unit won't be part of the first batch to be shipped. So, setting my expectations accordingly.
Can't wait to get it though...
Mark
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From reading posts over at the Pyra handheld forum about all the trials and tribulations getting PCB boards, RAM, cases, keyboards, etc, all debugged and working just right, I would guess the Planet folks are probably crazy busy doing QC work to make sure all turns out well for us an them...
I also believe that they are probably not sleeping at all these days, so that they can meet the CES deadline
As I just ordered yesterday I assume my unit won't be part of the first batch to be shipped. So, setting my expectations accordingly.
Can't wait to get it though...
I have read that they'll produce an initial batch of 3000 units, and at the moment there are 3339 backers on Indiegogo, though not everyone has backed for a Gemini. There's a 25$ perk for a t-shirt only, for example, and many have ordered the front camera which is a separate perk, no idea if indiegogo is counting the latter as separate backers... so maybe me and you will be included in this first batch. Otherwise, it would be more fair that they ship them on a first come-first serve basis.
Varti
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I have read that they'll produce an initial batch of 3000 units, and at the moment there are 3339 backers on Indiegogo, though not everyone has backed for a Gemini. There's a 25$ perk for a t-shirt only, for example, and many have ordered the front camera which is a separate perk, no idea if indiegogo is counting the latter as separate backers... so maybe me and you will be included in this first batch. Otherwise, it would be more fair that they ship them on a first come-first serve basis.
Doing a quick check, I see 764 WiFi plus 4G; 393 WiFi only; 372 "all in"; 7 of the gold-plated ones; and 4 of the 5-packs, or 20 units. Which totals 1556 units. Now, we need to figure at least 100 will be put out for review and sales samples, but even if it is far more than that it would likely total less than 2000. So all of us who have ordered them at this point should get them from the first batch, no?
Which is more than we knew the last time I can remember this kind of salivating interest: in late 1990, when we were all yearning to get our hot little hands on the GA release of OS/2 2.0. The rumors were crazy (even among IBM employees; I lived near Armonk so I knew a great many of them). The semi-official discussion page was, of all places, on the old Prodigy online service (a joint venture between IBM and, of all companies, Sears and Roebuck, headquartered two blocks from my house), and no tea-leaf reading of celebrity news in the tabloids equalled the speculation on that forum!
(Steve Ballmer at Microsoft said he would "eat a CD if OS/2 ships in 1990." It did, technically, to a couple hundred business clients, but Ballmer did not, as far as we know, eat the CD, though if he did it would explain a lot. Meanwhile, those of us awaiting shipment, many of whom were members of something called "Team OS/2," talked up the nonexistent product and worshipped Lee Reiswig, head of IBM Personal Software Products and nicknamed "The Blue Ninja." And it was the first time most of us ever heard the acronym FUD -- fear, uncertainty, and doubt -- which was what Microsoft, with its puny Windows 3.0 delayed and delayed and delayed, was spreading about our glorious OS/2.)
Every time it got delayed by a few days there would be great anguish and the rumor that IBM had scrapped OS/2 -- which is, actually, the kind of thing IBM would do (ask the XYQuest people. IBM partnered with XYQuest, which had produced the very popular XYWrite, to create "Signature," a GUI version of the program, then discontinued it three days after launch; IBM survived but XYQuest didn't) -- but by late January the new OS/2 had been seen in the wild, though no stores were stocking it. I finally went knocking from door to door at various IBM buildings in and around Armonk and found one lone copy, which had been given to some department that had no interest in it, and a guy who sold it to me for full retail price, in cash, which I'm sure he kept.
There's a moral to the story, but I'm not sure what it is unless it's that we should be glad that the Gemini isn't an IBM product!
(And to nudge this post back onto topic, sort of, I did ultimately get OS/2 to run on a tiny computer, a Zeos Contenda with a 386/25 chip and 4 megs of RAM. Never could get it installed on the Toshiba Libretto, though, because there was no driver for a PCMCIA floppy on the install disk. So the Libretto was a Linux machine -- even so, I had to pull the hard drive and do the install on another machine.)
I'll be quiet now.
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I've been involved as a backer in five new products via crowdfunding websites. Fortunately all of them were successful, but they all delivered months or in once case more than a year after the first estimated shipping date.
I will only back what I can afford to lose, and I am prepared to end up with nothing if it comes to that but this project does feel very different from Vega+ so I am optimistic.
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Some of us have ordered x2 4g wifi units so we have to take count for that too.
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Some of us have ordered x2 4g wifi units so we have to take count for that too.
I'm thinking that the "claimed" means the number of units, so someone buying two ought to tick the number up by 2. Which is to say thast the total number of backers number is kind of useless. I could be wrong.
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Doing a quick check, I see 764 WiFi plus 4G; 393 WiFi only; 372 "all in"; 7 of the gold-plated ones; and 4 of the 5-packs, or 20 units. Which totals 1556 units. Now, we need to figure at least 100 will be put out for review and sales samples, but even if it is far more than that it would likely total less than 2000. So all of us who have ordered them at this point should get them from the first batch, no?
Thanks for checking this, I'm now confident I'll receive my unit now, save for last-minute manufacturing issues.
Which is more than we knew the last time I can remember this kind of salivating interest: (...)
That was an interesting read. I have never tried OS/2 myself, in 1990 we had a family trip to Muenchen, Germany, to buy a Commodore Amiga 500, and that was our main computer at home until we bought a 486 running (cough) MSDOS. A friend of mine though is a fan of OS/2 and I remember he showed me eComStation on his laptop some years ago. I have heard about ArcaOS too, which seems to continue the OS/2 legacy.
I will only back what I can afford to lose, and I am prepared to end up with nothing if it comes to that but this project does feel very different from Vega+ so I am optimistic.
Same here. I hope that every backer understands that we are actually financing a project, rather than buying a product. I'm anyway also optimistic, I have followed this campaign closely and everything has progressed as I was expecting.
Varti
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The timeline on the 7 Nov Planet update was notable for being very precise and not overtly featuring much by way of contingency. A link to that update:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-p...087#/updates/36 (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/16382087#/updates/36)
The latest update, 19 Dec, has a paragraph updating us on the timeline. In that they say "we remain on track to start production in January 2018". The update is here:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-p...087#/updates/41 (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/16382087#/updates/41)
It's an interesting choice of words - they choose not to say that the production was going ahead as they said (in the first week of January), but to give scoop for a slip - or introduce contingency if you like.
While I want them to be on the Nov schedule of making the units starting last Monday and finishing this Sunday I somehow don't believe it. Planet management will also be focused on CES (ends 12 Jan) and my gut feeling says that production will start in the second half of the month, and be 'slow' to get going. Some will be madein Jan but perhaps not all? Of course if a supplier really lets them down then it all slips further. Anyway I'm hoping for delivery in February, but wont loose sleep if its March. More then that and I would be concnerned.
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I'll give an example of a successfully crowdfunded electronic device, on Kickstarter Pebble watch:
Campaign end and funding closed: May 18 2012
Production Planned start: September 2012
Actual Production start: January 2013
Shipping started: January 23 2013
All backers fulfilled: December 2013
This would be considered quite a good timeline, delays for Pebble were quite small compared with other Kickstarter electronics projects. In fact over 80% of Kickstarter projects deliver late.
If there are delays caused by unexpected events such as Spectre then summer or autumn 2018 would not surprise me.
Just don't be talking about Zano or Vega+.
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According to Pocket-Lint Gemini starts shipping in the coming days:
“Already earning the company over $1m on the social funding site, the new Gemini, which has finally become a reality, will start shipping to customers who've already ordered via Indiegogo from this week. New orders will be getting into customers hands in the following weeks the company tells Pocket-lint when we went to see the device ahead of it going on sale.”
https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/143...hose-psion-days (https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/143232-planet-gemini-pda-goes-on-sale-letting-you-relive-those-psion-days)
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According to Pocket-Lint Gemini starts shipping in the coming days:
“Already earning the company over $1m on the social funding site, the new Gemini, which has finally become a reality, will start shipping to customers who've already ordered via Indiegogo from this week. New orders will be getting into customers hands in the following weeks the company tells Pocket-lint when we went to see the device ahead of it going on sale.”
https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/143...hose-psion-days (https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/143232-planet-gemini-pda-goes-on-sale-letting-you-relive-those-psion-days)
Fingers crossed then!
Varti
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Production has indeed started and some units done and with Planet at CES now...
This is per the new Indiegogo update #42 today....
Mark
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Production has indeed started and some units done and with Planet at CES now...
This is per the new Indiegogo update #42 today....
Thanks for the heads up Archi, reading it now!
Varti
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Production has indeed started and some units done and with Planet at CES now...
This is per the new Indiegogo update #42 today....
Mark
Looks to be pretty good news: " . . . We are quickly going to test the production units in key countries Japan, UK, USA, Germany for mobile network testing.
"First Gemini backer units will be shipping in January.
"We will communicate more on the shipping schedules after the CES show." . . .
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Production has indeed started and some units done and with Planet at CES now...
This is per the new Indiegogo update #42 today....
Mark
Looks to be pretty good news: " . . . We are quickly going to test the production units in key countries Japan, UK, USA, Germany for mobile network testing.
"First Gemini backer units will be shipping in January.
"We will communicate more on the shipping schedules after the CES show." . . .
Very good news indeed! I do not think it's a coincidence this was update #42 - the answer to life, the universe, and everything
Off-topic, but dep, i always dreamed of owning a libretto. I think I made do quite well with my Psions though, all things considered.
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I'm pretty confident that I will receive a Gemini from the first or second production batch.
Planet seem to be a little conservative about over-promising on this, and also seem to be working hard to achieve the quality that people expect rather than building down to a price. This this assures me that we won't be receiving alpha or beta grade hardware, although the software might only be a near release candidate beta.
I don't think they will to respin the hardware unless a serious fault is found, the product is too low volume and if there's a minor fault they'll probably just hot wire the PCB instead unless they really have to replan the PCB or something because of timing issues causing stability problems for components with previously unseen tolerance variations.
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I don't think they will to respin the hardware unless a serious fault is found, the product is too low volume and if there's a minor fault they'll probably just hot wire the PCB instead unless they really have to replan the PCB or something because of timing issues causing stability problems for components with previously unseen tolerance variations.
Watching all the CES videos, Janko is quite candid in his answers to questions but there are still a few gaps to be filled. I've read in the following:
1. Mobile cell network testing is ongoing. This will be to make the phone networks in the various territories comfortable with the device I think.
2. Devices will be shipping with software in late beta state. The adaptation of Android is not 100% complete and will improve with updates. GPU hardware acceleration only partially implemented. Oreo some months away, even if GPU drivers are now available.
3. Device will not ship with dual boot linux, it will be Android only. The Debian will be available as a web download for owners to flash in themselves.
4. Linux OS on Gemini is a rough implementation and a long way behind Android. Of course that won't bother the enthusiasts who will enjoy hacking it around. Janko and Planet would be very happy to accept help from the open source community.
5. Hardware production partner is invested in the project, so Planet have not had to fully commit financially to production tooling. This is good as even $1million is not much money to get this type of project in production. This may apply to the final product or the keyboard maker or both (I believe they are two different manufacturers). Think about 2500 crowdfunded units, the vast majority of keyboards will be for US and EU territories, but those supported markets where there were maybe 10 or 20 backers, imagine have to make just a few special keyboards for each of those. I would hope there is a bespoking process but would still expect it to be expensive.
6. HDMI output is custom mode. This may allow Planet to control accessory sales like Apple try to, although Janko said that the cable adapter is not expensive.
HDMI out is clone screen, not dual expanded desktop.
I do believe that the product will take off on general sale and may have been held back a bit by IndieGogo and risks perceived with putting money into backing projects - there are enough stories of projects failing or being eternally delayed. The future of Planet making these things and a version 2 will depend on it. Psion sold over a million units.
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thanks, @andrewl, a good summary of the situation.
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Agree - thanks, @andrewl and good to see info from videos consolidated and thoughtful reflection.
I think its going to be quite close as to if the Gemini is long term viable (ie Gemini2 and Gemini3 updates come along) or stalls at this version. I want it to be a success, of course, but I'm not in the camp of going "rah, rah, rah, this is the only show in town with a good small keyboard and so it will naturally be a success."
A lot will depend on the reviews - I mean proper reviews with benchmarking and battery testing etc. That and day-to-day usability that reviewers find. I think the bulk of sales will be Android and it has to be a success there. I ordered back in March looking for a unit to replace my phone with something more versatile. To have it as well as a phone seems wrong - I may as well have a portable bluetooth keyboard and use that with my exiting phone. Or pack my Thinkpad in my bag as I do now - extra weight but very versatile. Anyway having 2 phone size devices, with 2 screens etc doesn't make sense to me.
I keep banging on about the battery only being half the original specified capacity. It's very much pushed as a device for creatives and it has to last lots of hours. If it can't I don't really want to be carrying around a battery power bank - more cables, another thing to charge etc. Others will be happy to, I know. Incidentally when this came up at the London backers meeting in November, somebody from Planet suggested that you could use Airplane mode to extend life and be able to type more. This is bonkers - suggesting I sit in the middle of London with a mobile device and I'm supposed to cut myself off from all comms to get decent life for the use intended. I was also told there was a division of opinion within Planet about if they needed to sort out a bigger battery option or not. My view is coloured by voting with my feet to get a mobile with a big battery - my Lenovo P2 (which cost £200 incidentally) has a 5100 mAh battery and its so liberating not having to worry about power. Performance isn't top class, but I'll take more battery every-time. Anyway I think the original spec was right and the final spec is a concern - but lets see the reality when its reviewed and we get our own units.
As a phone replacement NFC is an option in low-end devices but not high-end (and I think of Gemini as high-end). Fingerprint security is more or less mandatory on all phones - its so convenient. The lack of the latter is a big concern for usability. Both NFC and Fingerprint were originally spec'd and got dumped along the way.
Pukka reviewers might also be very concerned about the optional camera. I don't have a problem with it being an option but 5MB seems laughably crude compared to where all phones are these days. I don't think it inspires confidence and just makes you reflect even more about what you would be giving up if you replaced your existing phone with the Gemini. To be honest I think it's an option that detracts rather then adds to the marketing proposition.
At the moment I'm just not sure how it will work out as a phone replacement - it might all be a bit too crippled - great keyboard maybe, but two limited in other phone respects. We will see. Finally I say all this as Psion 5 user and loved the device at that time. Remember the earlier ones too - started with a Psion Organiser ][!
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@andrewl
Thanks from me, too.
@BSTM
The battery is said to be replaceable, so there's hope Planet or some 3rd party might come up with a larger replacement battery that fits the form factor. Same for the external camera, since it's an add-on; the choice of 5MP might have been dictated by space constraints, which in turn might have been due to the last-minute changes done in the PCB layout. If the inclusion of the camera would have been planned from the start, a higher quality one might have been used instead.
Varti
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@BSTM thank, interesting to read reasons for choosing to back Gemini. I would guess there will be pros and cons that are unique to all of us, Planet have to strike a balance and build in what will be important features for most people, unless we each have a custom device built to our own requirements then few of us will be happy with everything.
For my own requirements I've never considered the Gemini as a phone replacement; even though I have opted for a 4G version I will still be carrying a smartphone. I want a Gemini to write on, and so that I can fill otherwise idle waiting moments with productive activity which will hopefully free up other time for me. Currently, for this purpose, I use a Chromebook which gives about 8 hours use. I typically get through about 30-50% of one charge so I am sure that Gemini's battery will be enough for my needs.
In the past a Psion 5 has served this same purpose for me, the only reason that I stopped using the Psion was its lack of connectivity so as long as the Gemini keyboard is close to the Psion usability standard then I am confident that it will be OK.
The feature of Psion 5 that I will miss is the screen. For words I have less use for colour, but I do need to be able to operate in bright daylight and of course the Psion transflective LCD was superb even in direct sunshine. I fear a backlit LCD won't be anywhere near as effective. I would have been very happy with an e-paper display.
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@BSTM
The battery is said to be replaceable, so there's hope Planet or some 3rd party might come up with a larger replacement battery that fits the form factor. Same for the external camera, since it's an add-on; the choice of 5MP might have been dictated by space constraints, which in turn might have been due to the last-minute changes done in the PCB layout. If the inclusion of the camera would have been planned from the start, a higher quality one might have been used instead.
Varti
Yep - some hope for a bigger battery. But I dont think that will help sell the device to those who will review it properly over the coming weeks or 'average users' comparing specs. Unless Planet actualy say soemthing on the subject. The reason they havnt, I think, is because thickning the underside of the case would destroy the current keyboard tilting geometry. So it's not easy, but nothing is impossible one would hope.
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The battery matter was addressed in the Sept 12 update:
"Our aspiration was for the Gemini to have an 8000 mAh battery.
We could not fit the 8000 mAh battery in the dimensions we set for the device, as one of our backers noticed early on in the campaign.
Keeping the aspiration of 8000 mAh we tried to find the largest off the shelf removable battery that would fit the device. We were finding batteries with capacity of around 3000 mAh and this was not satisfactory.
We proceeded to look at other solution making the battery replaceable, but not removable in the sense of not requiring any device maintenance.
In the end we decided to create our own custom battery that can fit the space.
The battery is not removable, but is replaceable. Having a removable battery would make the device thicker and we did not want that either. The battery can be replaced, as it plugs in neatly into the side PCB. Replacement batteries will be available.
The battery size has been measured at 4220 mAh and we are yet to do the final longevity tests (talk time and standby time)
Even at 4220 mAh, the Gemini regular battery is still one of the largest batteries on a mobile phone device.
We are still keen to cater for an even larger battery and we are considering to introduce an large battery add-on that would come with a thicker base cover to cater for the larger battery volume, making the dimensions of the device much thicker. "
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I thought it was also mentioned that a substantially larger battery might have required the Gemini to be stowed in checked baggage for certain flights. I am hoping to take mine with me on an international flight in about 6 months, and if I wouldn't be allowed to keep it with me on the plane, I would be less than pleased.
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I thought it was also mentioned that a substantially larger battery might have required the Gemini to be stowed in checked baggage for certain flights. I am hoping to take mine with me on an international flight in about 6 months, and if I wouldn't be allowed to keep it with me on the plane, I would be less than pleased.
It's strange because the IATA and FAA rules forbid Li-Ion in equipment or loose in checked hold baggage, they insist that they are in carry-on bags.
Their nominal limit per passenger is 100Wh which at 5V is 20000mAh for loose uninstalled, or in a device so you would be OK with 8000 or 4220.
There was a temporary restriction on devices over a certain size between particular destinations in the summer and this may have influenced the decision and the overall size of the Gemini but that restriction is mostly gone now, there are laptops on every flight I've been on lately.
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Based on the perks for devices, it looks like Planet Computers were expecting a ceiling of about 15000 device orders in addition to the batch for the very early backers. Without other sales channels I can't see them reaching 15000 sales. But without such volumes I can't see them continuing to developing a V2 device.
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We are still keen to cater for an even larger battery and we are considering to introduce an large battery add-on that would come with a thicker base cover to cater for the larger battery volume, making the dimensions of the device much thicker. "
That was in September.
At the November London backers meeting I asked about this and got no warm vibes at all that anything would happen. They don't hold a comon view on if this is needed or not - or they didnt then. That said, they have been under great pressure to get the unit into production of course - higher priority one would say. That said (2), but that hasnt stoped them working on the camera add-on.
The others thing that came out of the London Backers mtg was the lack of keyboard backlighting. It took an age to actualy get to be able to play with a unit and in the gloom of the bar I suddenly found I couldn't actualy see the legends on the keycaps and do anything useful. Not a deal breaker perhaps, but an inconvience that ought to be corrected in another iteration.
We are where we are and the mobile phone reviewers will make of the Gemini what they do. I look forward to getting my unit and truly hope it is good enough to be my daily driver.
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I thought it was also mentioned that a substantially larger battery might have required the Gemini to be stowed in checked baggage for certain flights. I am hoping to take mine with me on an international flight in about 6 months, and if I wouldn't be allowed to keep it with me on the plane, I would be less than pleased.
It's strange because the IATA and FAA rules forbid Li-Ion in equipment or loose in checked hold baggage, they insist that they are in carry-on bags.
Their nominal limit per passenger is 100Wh which at 5V is 20000mAh for loose uninstalled, or in a device so you would be OK with 8000 or 4220.
There was a temporary restriction on devices over a certain size between particular destinations in the summer and this may have influenced the decision and the overall size of the Gemini but that restriction is mostly gone now, there are laptops on every flight I've been on lately.
Great post. There was a temporary restriction but it seemed very confused and more associated with laptops (and tablets?) rather than phones. Meanwhile some Chinese phone makers are really picking up on what some want in a phone - The latest Ulefone has a 6080mAh battery with 6inch screen 13MP camera and 9.9mm thick. £165 + taxes...
https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ulefone-po...earbest-2874463 (https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ulefone-power-3-4g-phablet-6gb-ram-64gb-rom-hi-fi-face-recognition-quad-cameras-6080mah-battery-corning-gorilla-glass-4-screen-165-gearbest-2874463)
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Great post. There was a temporary restriction but it seemed very confused and more associated with laptops (and tablets?) rather than phones. Meanwhile some Chinese phone makers are really picking up on what some want in a phone - The latest Ulefone has a 6080mAh battery with 6inch screen 13MP camera and 9.9mm thick. £165 + taxes...
https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ulefone-po...earbest-2874463 (https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ulefone-power-3-4g-phablet-6gb-ram-64gb-rom-hi-fi-face-recognition-quad-cameras-6080mah-battery-corning-gorilla-glass-4-screen-165-gearbest-2874463)
I checked out the cabin device ban on gov.uk (https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions/electronic-devices-and-electrical-items). They give the maximum device dimensions for certain destinations as:
Quote: "if they’re larger than any of these measurements:"
16cm in length
9.3cm in width
1.5cm in depth (thickness)
Gemini specifications on IndieGogo:
Measure: 17.14 cm x 7.93 cm x 1.51 cm
Interesting on the length.
As for batteries. I wish they could all be specified in Wh for comparison, because of Ohms law a difference in operating voltage makes it difficult to compare batteries capacities between different devices. A 6080 mAh battery at 3.3V is about 20Wh but 30Wh at 5V. 4220mAh 5V battery at 3.3V is 21Wh (6364mAh).
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I checked out the cabin device ban on gov.uk (https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions/electronic-devices-and-electrical-items). They give the maximum device dimensions for certain destinations as: (...)
Thanksfully, those destinations are only a few: Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
Varti
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Great post. There was a temporary restriction but it seemed very confused and more associated with laptops (and tablets?) rather than phones. Meanwhile some Chinese phone makers are really picking up on what some want in a phone - The latest Ulefone has a 6080mAh battery with 6inch screen 13MP camera and 9.9mm thick. £165 + taxes...
https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ulefone-po...earbest-2874463 (https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ulefone-power-3-4g-phablet-6gb-ram-64gb-rom-hi-fi-face-recognition-quad-cameras-6080mah-battery-corning-gorilla-glass-4-screen-165-gearbest-2874463)
Can't stand gadgets with non-easily-replaceable batteries. Use an LG V20 myself with a ZeroLemon 10000mAh replacement battery. Before that a G4 with the equivalent ZeroLemon for that. Prior to that a Nexus 5 with the "add-on" ZeroLemon case which was generally a horrendous experience all round. And in the distance of time a Samsung Galaxy Nexus (again with a big old extended battery).
Even though I've got an "all-in" perk (and the flipping camera too) I've no desire to carry the Gemini around for the phone functions. It's not quite flexible enough a form factor to handle being a phone 100% of the time for me, whereas the V20 does that fantastically well while being just about usable with one hand, Dual SIM allowing me to get rid of separate work/personal phones too.
(Order number 2620 so fingers crossed I'm in the first wave)
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be careful about promised battery capacity from some of those cheap Chinese vendors... this Doogee one promises 12,000mAH but when Chris@TechTablets took it apart, that's not what he found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF3B80BZwcQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF3B80BZwcQ)
on another phone, he found that the second of a twin camera arrangement didn't work and might even have been a dummy!
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@BSTM
The battery is said to be replaceable, so there's hope Planet or some 3rd party might come up with a larger replacement battery that fits the form factor. Same for the external camera, since it's an add-on; the choice of 5MP might have been dictated by space constraints, which in turn might have been due to the last-minute changes done in the PCB layout. If the inclusion of the camera would have been planned from the start, a higher quality one might have been used instead.
Varti
Yep - some hope for a bigger battery. But I dont think that will help sell the device to those who will review it properly over the coming weeks or 'average users' comparing specs. Unless Planet actualy say soemthing on the subject. The reason they havnt, I think, is because thickning the underside of the case would destroy the current keyboard tilting geometry. So it's not easy, but nothing is impossible one would hope.
I would rather have a 3/4lb Gemini in my pocket and a 1lb battery in my travel bag than to have a 1.75lb Gemini. I think they got the balance right. 4000mAh is still a lot of battery.
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we might get lucky and a third party could produce a better camera module which is plug compatible.
I suspect that the Gemini will do OK for battery for many people, since the clamshell will remain closed for longer meaning the display is off more than a typical smartphone?
It would be interesting if somebody comes up with an external e-ink display. Remember the Yotaphone? https://yotaphone.com/gb-en/ (https://yotaphone.com/gb-en/)
That would allow the G to show status messages and alerts without draining the battery.
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This is the last update I got yesterday:
Shipping will start in Jan (right at end of). We will then have to try to ramp up mass production as quickly as possible to get as many units as we can out before Chinese NY.
I would hope that your unit is part of that first shipment but can’t 100% promise given uncertainties of this being the first one the factory will really be increasing production of Gemini
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This is the last update I got yesterday:
Shipping will start in Jan (right at end of). We will then have to try to ramp up mass production as quickly as possible to get as many units as we can out before Chinese NY.
I would hope that your unit is part of that first shipment but can’t 100% promise given uncertainties of this being the first one the factory will really be increasing production of Gemini
Where did you get this update?
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Where did you get this update?
they posted a full update on indiegogo this morning regarding mass production runs and initial shipping: http://indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-a...-phone#/updates (http://indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates)
-- eliyahu
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This is the last update I got yesterday:
Shipping will start in Jan (right at end of). We will then have to try to ramp up mass production as quickly as possible to get as many units as we can out before Chinese NY.
I would hope that your unit is part of that first shipment but can’t 100% promise given uncertainties of this being the first one the factory will really be increasing production of Gemini
Where did you get this update?
I contacted them via Facebook and they got back to me (I think it was Robin).
Where did you get this update?
they posted a full update on indiegogo this morning regarding mass production runs and initial shipping: http://indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-a...-phone#/updates (http://indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates)
-- eliyahu
Yes, seems like they posted an update after my reply.
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Has anyone heard if mass production has started yet? I believe the plan was for it to start on 1st January but I’ve not heard anything to confirm this.
Update 44 just came in and yes its started, mass production begins 29th and shipping shortly after!!!!!!!
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This is the last update I got yesterday:
Shipping will start in Jan (right at end of). We will then have to try to ramp up mass production as quickly as possible to get as many units as we can out before Chinese NY.
I would hope that your unit is part of that first shipment but can’t 100% promise given uncertainties of this being the first one the factory will really be increasing production of Gemini
Just out of interest, when did you back Gemini please?
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This is the last update I got yesterday:
Shipping will start in Jan (right at end of). We will then have to try to ramp up mass production as quickly as possible to get as many units as we can out before Chinese NY.
I would hope that your unit is part of that first shipment but can’t 100% promise given uncertainties of this being the first one the factory will really be increasing production of Gemini
Just out of interest, when did you back Gemini please?
Order ID: 1266
Contribution Date: March 5, 2017
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@tielemans.jorim, Thanks for the update. I backed the project a few days before you. Hopefully production goes well so we get our hands on the Gemini in the next few weeks.
Order ID: 817
Contribution Date: March 1, 2017
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I'm fatalistic about not making the pre-Chinese New Year batch (#2044, May 2017) but was kind of curious if anyone knew if wifi vs. 4G will make a difference? It seems like it would make sense to do the wifi only units first, as there are fewer of them.
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I'm fatalistic about not making the pre-Chinese New Year batch (#2044, May 2017) but was kind of curious if anyone knew if wifi vs. 4G will make a difference? It seems like it would make sense to do the wifi only units first, as there are fewer of them.
I think that Planet will try to satisfy the early bird backers first regardless of which version of Gemini they have chosen, but I would agree that WiFi only units are not subject to network carrier certification so one less hoop to jump through.
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According to a post on Gemini Planet on Facebook, the final production and assembly have been postponed to next Thursday, since the firmware required a last-minute fix and it is now being recompiled.
Varti
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According to a post on Gemini Planet on Facebook, the final production and assembly have been postponed to next Thursday, since the firmware required a last-minute fix and it is now being recompiled.
Varti
That post was on Tuesday 30th Jan and said that firmware was being compiled "today" and that production would start Thursday (1 February) i.e. THIS Thursday. There has not been a week's delay as implied by NEXT Thursday which would be the 8th February. Don't frighten people like that! :-)
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According to a post on Gemini Planet on Facebook, the final production and assembly have been postponed to next Thursday, since the firmware required a last-minute fix and it is now being recompiled.
Varti
That post was on Tuesday 30th Jan and said that firmware was being compiled "today" and that production would start Thursday (1 February) i.e. THIS Thursday. There has not been a week's delay as implied by NEXT Thursday which would be the 8th February. Don't frighten people like that! :-)
Sorry, didn't mean to scare anyone For some reason I'm used to say "next (day)" instead of "this", I never thought this to be wrong. I'm not a native English speaker, so please forgive me if sometimes I write something wrong, and feel free to highlight any error you find in my posts
Varti
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In any case, this from Planet just now (update 45):
Gemini mass production has started!
Dear Gemini Backers!
The final assembly of Gemini started today!
The Planet team has been in China since Monday. Yesterday our CEO, COO and CTO visited the factory to see the final keyboards being assembled (see the first two photos).
This was exciting to see as we witnessed the actual laser etching process of a keyboard and saw some of the smaller quantity keyboards being quality controlled.
Today our COO, Robin Parker and CTO, Davide Guidi, visited the assembly facility to see the assembly process start.
Seeing the production line confirmed exactly how complex Gemini is when it comes to assembly!
We saw 42 steps in progress. Each being done by a different factory worker. This was only part of the assembly and did not cover some of the LCD screen assembly and keyboard assembly which were done separately or the latter stages of packaging.
Altogether truly amazing to watch Gemini taking shape step by step on the production line after having worked on this project as a very small team for over a year. It has been a long day coming but so happy to be there when it all started in earnest.
Fingers crossed for the next few days to see how the factory can get through units. We will provide a more in depth update in the next few days, but just wanted to share this important milestone news with you. Here are some photos of the production line:
Best regards,
Team Gemini
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Great update. So from this post I understand they're planning to oversee the whole production cycle.
Varti
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According to a post on Gemini Planet on Facebook, the final production and assembly have been postponed to next Thursday, since the firmware required a last-minute fix and it is now being recompiled.
Varti
That post was on Tuesday 30th Jan and said that firmware was being compiled "today" and that production would start Thursday (1 February) i.e. THIS Thursday. There has not been a week's delay as implied by NEXT Thursday which would be the 8th February. Don't frighten people like that! :-)
Sorry, didn't mean to scare anyone For some reason I'm used to say "next (day)" instead of "this", I never thought this to be wrong. I'm not a native English speaker, so please forgive me if sometimes I write something wrong, and feel free to highlight any error you find in my posts
Varti
No problems Varti - the English language has too many traps for any of us to avoid them all. This one is a usage convention - when we say "this Thursday" (or whatever day) it is actually shorthand for "Thursday this week" next Thursday would be "Thursday next week". Logically, you were quite right: if Thursday has not yet occurred this week then the next Thursday is, in fact, the one that falls in this week. But, never accuse the English language of being logical!
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Now Gemini PDA in Production phase according to the Indiegogo page.
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Gemini perks on Indiegogo will be going up to USD $499 for the WiFi and USD $599 for the 4G+WiFi Gemini perk. Perk prices will be changing on 9th of February 2018. Anybody wishing to contribute to the Gemini campaign at the current perk prices should do so before 9th of February 2018.
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In case anyone missed it, here is the full update:
New Campaign Update!
The Gemini PDA Android & Linux keyboard mobile device team just posted.
posted by Planet Computers
Feb 5, 2018 • 2:02AM PST
Gemini perk price changes & last call for keyboard layouts
Dear Gemini backers!
Gemini has been in production for several days now. As well as overseeing the production line, Planet staff will be conducting the first batch quality check on Wednesday this week - in two days. The next step is packaging up the units and shipping them out to backers.
ADVANCE NOTICE OF GEMINI PERK PRICE CHANGES
As Gemini is now in production, the price of the Gemini perks on Indiegogo will be going up to USD $499 for the WiFi and USD $599 for the 4G+WiFi Gemini perk. Perk prices will be changing on 9th of February 2018. Anybody wishing to contribute to the Gemini campaign at the current perk prices should do so before 9th of February 2018.
KEYBOARD LAYOUT SELECTION - LAST CALL
If you have not yet communicated your choice of keyboard layout, please register your choice on the following link:
https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/544265fe9...ac42a5daca19dd3 (https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/544265fe9f8a4a319ac42a5daca19dd3).
This is our final call for keyboard layout selection for current backers. Any backers that have not specified their keyboard choices will receive a standard Gemini QWERTY keyboard.
WiFi TO 4G GEMINI UPGRADE PERK
Also, another reminder that we have a new perk available on Indiegogo allowing you to upgrade from the WiFi only Gemini version to the 4G version.
We will be sending out an update on Gemini shipping dates later this week and how you can check the status of your perks.
Best regards,
Team Gemini
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they didn't say how big the first batch was
At CES Planet reported that the initial order would be for 2750 units.
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they didn't say how big the first batch was
At CES Planet reported that the initial order would be for 2750 units.
Thanks for that.
Seems like mine will be in the second batch, made after Chinese New Year, as my Order ID is 4624
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Big News! All HDMI cables and cases are ready, and the first Gemini units will start getting prepped for shipping from tomorrow
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Update #48 suggest at least 1000 Gemin devices will be shipped next week
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Update #48 suggest at least 1000 Gemin devices will be shipped next week
I am clearly not in the first batch, which is okay: by the time I get mine, all of you will have worked out the recipes that will make it easy to convert it into a nice, Linux-only computer and phone.
Though I do wish they would say when the factory will reopen, post-CNY.
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Update #48 suggest at least 1000 Gemin devices will be shipped next week
I am clearly not in the first batch, which is okay: by the time I get mine, all of you will have worked out the recipes that will make it easy to convert it into a nice, Linux-only computer and phone.
Though I do wish they would say when the factory will reopen, post-CNY.
If we assume 1000 units can be manufactured in a week subject to stock then I think most backer units should be manufactured by 3rd week March. After the Chinese new year I think there is one working week in February.
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If we assume 1000 units can be manufactured in a week subject to stock then I think most backer units should be manufactured by 3rd week March. After the Chinese new year I think there is one working week in February.
On Facebook, a backer with an order ID of 59xx asked Planet when will his device be shipped. They answered that, basing on his ID, they expect his unit to be shipped end of April.
Varti
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Wondering if there is still the risk that the devices manufactured so far might not make it out of HK due to CNY?
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If we assume 1000 units can be manufactured in a week subject to stock then I think most backer units should be manufactured by 3rd week March. After the Chinese new year I think there is one working week in February.
On Facebook, a backer with an order ID of 59xx asked Planet when will his device be shipped. They answered that, basing on his ID, they expect his unit to be shipped end of April.
Varti
Got the same answer today from "R" via email to / from Planet Computers (PC) saying based on my Order IDs: 66XX they anticipate shipping my bundled perks by the end of April.
BTW, what shipping carrier is PC using out of Hong Kong ($50 to USA)?
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On Facebook, a backer with an order ID of 59xx asked Planet when will his device be shipped. They answered that, basing on his ID, they expect his unit to be shipped end of April.
Got the same answer today from "R" via email to / from Planet Computers (PC) saying based on my Order IDs: 66XX they anticipate shipping my bundled perks by the end of April.
Hi Ifanafi, thanks for the confirmation. "R" is probably Robin Parker, one of the three Planet's directors.
BTW, what shipping carrier is PC using out of Hong Kong ($50 to USA)?
Planet has some time ago said they'll be using DHL.
Varti
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So has production restared for the remainder devices?
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So has production restared for the remainder devices?
Someone on Planet’s FB page has speculated that the production might restart either this or the next week. Planet’s comment was (posted yesterday): ”I could [comment on this] but not with 100% certainty. Now Chinese New Year is over and workers return to the factories, there can be some timelag before the factories are 100% up and running plus then there is scheduling of production lines to organize.”
Varti
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Someone (Mikuláš Formánek) wrote that today (Feb 28) they sent "the second thousand"...
We'd know with how much frequency they could sent other 2-3 thousand and we could decide if the 5000 Gemini requested will be in our home/office: end of March? April?
Actually the frequency depends also in Chinese works, delivery from there to Planet, and so on...
Salvo
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That's not true though. Dr. Janko did mention that in the PC Mag interview (it's on YouTube).
However yesterday, I got a Facebook reply from Planet saying the next shipment will be "mid-end of March" and "they cannot with 100% certainty say when production restarts, due to several factors ((new) workers returning, streamlining of multiple production lines)". It's on their page under a photo of MWC.
Ergo I think Dr. Janko misspoke.
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Ergo I think Dr. Janko misspoke.
He also said he thought there's a market for 10 million of these beasties, at the current rate of production that'll take 1,500 years to roll out of the factory.Personally I reckon there's a market for no more than 250,000 assuming they can get them to market.
They need to increase production by a factor of 100 to stand any chance of success.
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Planet will need to schedule in a production slot with the factory to have their Geminis manufactured.
Let's say, for discussion, that the next production slot for Gemini begins 26th March (there has been some indirect suggestion that it will be around then).
So all components need to be ordered in, be checked and ready to start, including keyboards.
Assuming they use the same production workers from the previous run, and they are mostly already trained.
So, depending on how much line time they have in the slot, perhaps another 1000-1500 Geminis are produced, which then go through the delivery logistics process, being delivered over a 2-3 week periods. How far up the order number list will be fulfilled for this is not easy to know, because most orders are 4G upgrades and accessories - each one of these takes one order number.
Then the same cycle will start again around the end of April.
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Ergo I think Dr. Janko misspoke.
He also said he thought there's a market for 10 million of these beasties, at the current rate of production that'll take 1,500 years to roll out of the factory.Personally I reckon there's a market for no more than 250,000 assuming they can get them to market.
They need to increase production by a factor of 100 to stand any chance of success.
I agree!
For the present backers at that rate of production probably they will deliver the 6000-8000 orders not in April but in May or June...
If there will be more backers the time increases and so on...
A not pleasant condition. I do hope they would plan something to solve.
Salvo
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I think Planet will have to play the long game, to prove that there is a real market for this type of device.
The last time I recall a new phone-like device going on sale with a keyboard was the Samsung Galaxy Relay:
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_r...g_t699-4914.php (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_relay_4g_t699-4914.php)
If Samsung and the carriers had achieved enough sales, I'm sure there would have been a follow-up.
The UMPC market also died.
I think we have to accept that while we hope there will be a keyboarded-device revival, it's always going to be a niche market.
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...
I think we have to accept that while we hope there will be a keyboarded-device revival, it's always going to be a niche market.
yes, indeed!
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... I risk to will have a perfect Gemini for August!
But how much we can definite a niche market?
10.000 pieces are nothing for a device that have a small group of dealers.
Also the Blackberry Passport was a product of a niche market, but .... whit 700.000 pieces.
We are so far from be a niche: also this game is open.
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I think Planet will have to play the long game, to prove that there is a real market for this type of device.
The last time I recall a new phone-like device going on sale with a keyboard was the Samsung Galaxy Relay:
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_r...g_t699-4914.php (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_relay_4g_t699-4914.php)
If Samsung and the carriers had achieved enough sales, I'm sure there would have been a follow-up.
The UMPC market also died.
I think we have to accept that while we hope there will be a keyboarded-device revival, it's always going to be a niche market.
I had a similar device released about a year prior, and used it as long as I could manage, the Samsung Captivate Glide: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i927_capti..._glide-4071.php (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i927_captivate_glide-4071.php)
I love(d) my Psions and hope that typing on the Gemini will be every bit as satisfying as my 5mx (hopefully even more so while standing, rather than at a desk or on my lap, because of the new hinge design that is more like the 3a/3c, albeit the Gemini has sturdier material). That said, I was infinitely happier doing texting and email on the go with the Captivate Glide device (despite its lackluster keyboard) than I am with my current screen slab phone.
Obviously I am not alone, and wish the best for all of us and for Planet as well! *waits impatiently for the next batch*
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I agree!
For the present backers at that rate of production probably they will deliver the 6000-8000 orders not in April but in May or June...
If there will be more backers the time increases and so on...
A not pleasant condition. I do hope they would plan something to solve.
Salvo
Based on the new video today the orders on hand comprise, in total (I believe including those already shipped), about 4200. Let us hope that there is some improvement on the ~800 every other month, because otherwise it will be early winter before everyone gets theirs. My sense is that they're kind of renting factory time, perhaps on an as-available basis, though this is surmise on my part.
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Based on the new video today the orders on hand comprise, in total (I believe including those already shipped), about 4200. Let us hope that there is some improvement on the ~800 every other month, because otherwise it will be early winter before everyone gets theirs. My sense is that they're kind of renting factory time, perhaps on an as-available basis, though this is surmise on my part.
It's more than a surmise, it's confirmed on the IndieGogo comments page.
The assembly/manufacturer production time has to be scheduled in between other clients and all components need to be available and operatives trained.
I don't think Planet are going to be one of the bigger accounts.