OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Gemini PDA => Gemini PDA - General Discussion => Topic started by: Pdajah on January 12, 2018, 01:46:54 pm
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Here are some ideas I have seen mentioned:
- e-ink display on the outside to see status info / caller
- edge to edge screen to maximise screen real-estate
- finger print senor key
- higher mega pixel camera (external)
- silo and stylus
Any other ideas?
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Here are some ideas I have seen mentioned:
- e-ink display on the outside to see status info / caller
- edge to edge screen to maximise screen real-estate
- finger print senor key
- higher mega pixel camera (external)
- silo and stylus
Any other ideas?
Items on your list would each add about $50-$100 to the price tag. Would you be OK if the next version of the device was $250+ more?
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Here are some ideas I have seen mentioned:
- e-ink display on the outside to see status info / caller
- edge to edge screen to maximise screen real-estate
- finger print senor key
- higher mega pixel camera (external)
- silo and stylus
Any other ideas?
Items on your list would each add about $50-$100 to the price tag. Would you be OK if the next version of the device was $250+ more?
I'm just listing in summary what has been mentioned in various places. This just an ideas list thread. Planet Computers can judge. If you look at the Indegogo page you'll see the external camera was added after requests from backers.
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Some sort of pointing device -- I'm thinking TrackPoint-ish -- would be awfully welcome. But it would need to be precise, as in ThinkPads, rather than awful, as in the Sony Vaio P.
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Factory applied screen protector
Car mount for use of the Gemini for navigation
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The only wish I would need is a screen that is effective in direct sunlight, as the original Psion was.
And maybe if it were possible I would like to completely remove Android and use Linux only.
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Some early android phones had tiny trackballs - does anybody remember the HTC Desire? One of those would be a great addition.
edit, found this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/9308 (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/9308)
I'm not a big user of phone cameras, but the depth of the Gemini should allow for decent optics, if they're going to fit a camera, at least make it feel like it's designed in.
I also want them to fix the proprietary video out and use usb-c or micro-hdmi.
I don't know what Bluetooth audio this version can do, I'd like AptX but am not too hopeful, maybe the next version can have a SnapDragon processor and AptX-HD.
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a back lit keyboard
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a back lit keyboard
I agree, sort of, but I think the screen is so close to the keyboard that it might not be needed.
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Some good ideas there.
However, in 20 years of using a Psion 5mx (including in bed most nights, with the lights off, and you can stop sniggering at the back), I've never felt any need for a keyboard backlight. The keyboard has so few extra keys that there's little chance for confusion, and if you do much typing with it, you come to feel where all the keys are (whether in two-thumb or full touch-type mode).
Similarly, I never need to resort to a stylus; most of what I do is via the keyboard, and I find that a fingernail's plenty accurate enough for the screen. (I just turn or bend my index finger slightly.) A stylus would give slightly greater precision and visibility, of course, but Psion apps don't require infinite precision, and a fingernail's much more convenient.
So those are two things that might not be quite so important after all!
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This has reminded me that at one point, Psion themselves asked for ideas for a successor to the 5mx. I can't recall everything I suggested, but it certainly included a colour screen, headphone socket, stereo audio, more storage, and probably Bluetooth and/or USB, faster processor, thinner/lighter — all of which the Gemini has! And much more besides. So we are (about to be) living in good times.
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one key feature: to be able to replace the board inside the first generation Gemini with an upgraded board one day!
even if Planet didn't do this, I would hope some entrepreneur would step up and make a replacement logic board that could be easily slotted into the carcass to give us an upgrade.
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one key feature: to be able to replace the board inside the first generation Gemini with an upgraded board one day!
even if Planet didn't do this, I would hope some entrepreneur would step up and make a replacement logic board that could be easily slotted into the carcass to give us an upgrade.
Ditto!!
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Some sort of pointing device -- I'm thinking TrackPoint-ish -- would be awfully welcome. But it would need to be precise, as in ThinkPads, rather than awful, as in the Sony Vaio P.
Ditto! (again)
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Software side: is ChromeOS a viable option? Google seems to be positioning it as the preferred platform for keyboard-equipped devices in their family, and now that ChromeOS can run the majority of Android apps, it might make more sense for the Gemini 2, as a keyboard-driven machine.
Hardware side: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/02/goo...-compatibility/ (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/02/google-joins-universal-stylus-group-hopes-for-cross-device-compatibility/) (Universal Stylus Initiative support) — may be feasible as Google are now a USI group member? Would presumably require device drivers plus hardware support in the screen. Would allow the Gemini to work with any USI-compatible smart stylus.
And of course 128Gb of on-board storage and/or a higher capacity limit on the micro-SD card slot would be welcome.
(I'm taking into account the fact that Planet Computing are a small start-up and I expect for the next 6-18 months they're going to be preoccupied by ramping up manufacturing and sales before they can start planning a regular upgrade/release cadence going forward. 18 months is a very long time in the smartphone field, which Planet have staked out a tiny but unique corner of ...
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And of course 128Gb of on-board storage and/or a higher capacity limit on the micro-SD card slot would be welcome.
The microSD slot is microSDXC. It has a theoretical capacity limit of 2TB.
Planet Computers has only tested and validated media of up to 256GB in it. That doesn't mean that larger cards won't work - just that they haven't been tested. Note, that the only larger cards are 400GB and a new 512GB that isn't available quite yet.
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Sdxc and sdhc cards are the same, just that the former come formatted as exfat.
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Given that the camera is optional and to be honest a rear mounted 5MP job is pretty useless but if it there was an infra red job available I could see that being useful for hardware troubleshooting (finding a hot spot on a board indicates a point of failure).
No reason why one couldn't be available for the first iteration.
Most digital cameras work well into the IR but have filters to remove it, a neat bit of design would be to have a camera with 3 options, 1) Normal with IR filter, 2) Visible light filter to image just IR, 3) No filter for composite visible and IR image.
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a back lit keyboard
I agree, sort of, but I think the screen is so close to the keyboard that it might not be needed.
Sadly, the angle of the screen is such that it is still hard to see the keys in the dark. I've cursed my Gemini while trying to check few messages in bed. (Okay, I should be turning of my electronics at night, I know). A backlit keyboard on V2 would be very welcome.
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About the e-ink screen, I told on the past on the Facebook page that I will agree it.
But not on the same version that we know better.
E Ink society have developped alredy on 2017 a new screen called ACeP (Advanced Color ePaper) that is able to work by 32.000 colors. It dont have problems of reflex and is ultra-low-power.
That could be the perfect screen for Gemini V2!
... Or for V3?
https://eink.com/color-technology.html (https://eink.com/color-technology.html)
(Riccardo Dusi)
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About the e-ink screen, I told on the past on the Facebook page that I will agree it.
But not on the same version that we know better.
E Ink society have developped alredy on 2017 a new screen called ACeP (Advanced Color ePaper) that is able to work by 32.000 colors. It dont have problems of reflex and is ultra-low-power.
That could be the perfect screen for Gemini V2!
... Or for V3?
https://eink.com/color-technology.html (https://eink.com/color-technology.html)
(Riccardo Dusi)
+1 for e-ink. Would make a dream device for me.
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I haven't actually got a Gemini (yet!), but I've been following the project with interest, and I just thought i would throw my two pence worth in. I think most people would prefer the focus to be on ironing out the bugs in the current generation and improving the software, however here is my wish list for v2 - sorry its so long!
Screen
1) 7" 18:9 (as rumoured for Xiaomi Mi Max 3) OR
2) 7.5-7.9" 21:9 Ultrawide screen - to utilise full width of case
3) Capacitive hardware buttons next to screen (Back, home and overview), so software buttons are not required at all
4) High brightness OLED. You could then have a high contrast mode with white text on black, that would consume a similar amount of power, and be readable in sunlight. Maybe.
5) Anti glare coating
I'm not sure about E-ink to be honest. It could be great, especially for web browsing and typing in direct sunlight, but you would sacrifice decent video playback etc. Its also a bit of an unknown - conventional screens are ubiquitous and low risk.
Keyboard and input
6) I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but it sounds like they are on to a winner. Perhaps with some tweaks to improve the quality, perhaps adjusting layout based on user feedback as people get used to their devices. Thinner keyboard bezels could improve aesthetics.
7) Keyboard backlight would be helpful. The size of the Gemini means you can easily work on a plane or train, but it would be great to be able to do this without using an external light - I'm not a touch typer - i always have to look!
8) Physical keyboard buttons for back home and overview android keys (it may already have this with Fn keys?), and other tweaks so that you can use android entirely without touching the screen
9) A built in stylus would be great, especially for using Linux or windows.
Software
10) Android - bake into the ROM a UI switcher - the ability to switch apps between phone/phablet/tablet modes. I'm sure once some clever people get xposed running this will work using Phab7, but I think this is a really useful stock feature. The tablet UI for instance is often better optimised for portrait mode.
11) Windows - my vote is to give people the option - if version 2 had a Snapdragon 845, Windows for ARM could be implemented without too much work. You could use the android OS 90% time, and just boot into windows for the things that it can't do.
12) Give away a good few free units to some of the amazing developers at XDA developers etc. As almost everything android is optimised for portrait, touch screen use, I think Planet could use all the help they can get!
Other hardware
13) Battery - This could easily be bigger without compromising too much i think, even if it made the device a little thicker. The originally proposed 8000mAh sounds about right.
14) External Camera - Keep it optional - I'm actually happy that this is an option, as I don't see to much point in having one. I may be wrong, but I think most users would carry a phone in addition to this? Maybe it is just me, but without an external screen this makes a poor phone, and an even worse camera, which is exactly why i would carry a phone in addition to this. Even if the camera quality was amazing - you'd either have to shoot blind, or open it up to take a photo, both of which are a bit odd.
15) 4G - Perhaps it is possible that the Gemini can share a phone number and data allowance like the Apple watch does? You could then reply to texts and emails either from either your Gemini or your phone.
16) For V2 does it make sense for Planet to sub contract out the hardware design and manufacturer to a phone manufacturer, like google does with Nexus and Pixel? Planet have clearly spent a lot of time designing this hardware for manufacture, and there isn't really any other way to do it for a device so different from existing ones. It must be blummin hard to make a new device, but lots of Chinese manufacturers make great phones - Planet could give them the design of the V1 device and let them design and manufacture V2 (with Planet in control), leaving them to focus of the software side of things where they can have the most impact.
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After a couple of weeks of using the Gemini as my sole phone.
Improvements to model 1 not requiring huge change
1. A spacebar that works on the left and right side of the key, rather than only in the centre
2. Stronger/firmer tactile feedback on keypress. I know I can turn on vibration, but I use a mechanical keyboard on my computer and prefer the physical feeling of "yes, it's pressed"
3. Play/Pause controls work on wired/bluetooth earphones when the case is closed, they only work when case is open and unlocked
4. If Bluetooth is enabled, after reboot, it is still enabled, rather than disabled as it is now
Additional features possibly requiring re-tooling/redesign
1. External volume control buttons
2. Rubber 'feet/strips' on the underside to prevent slippage on smooth surfaces
3. Do away with the magnets that hold the Gemini closed, improved 'spring' instead, so we can turn on the compass
4. It would be nice to have an external camera, it's awkward trying to take pics with the internal one - maybe I should look at the camera add-on
5. Some form of display on the outside to show who is calling, maybe notifications - e-ink has been suggested earlier - although, I guess it could be argued I should get a smart watch and have notifications and status info pushed to that, removing the need for an external display and giving me a much more convenient display - though I have not worn a watch in 30 years...
Someone mentioned factory installed screen protector, I simply have not removed the screen protector that came with the Gemini.
That's about it for the moment.
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My suggestions:
1. Have 2 versions. One basic like the current with some improvements and refinements but with lower price. Second version with a higher screen to body ratio and external display.
2. More focus on productivity apps. The integration of hardware and software made the Psion devices unique.
3. User removable battery.
4. Bottom / base edges to have rubber feet.
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You read my mind.
Replacements / upgrades to Gemini 1 guts like its logic board would be most welcomed from a third party ONLY IF PC goes belly up (meaning no Gem 2).
From PC, I'd welcome any improvements / upgrade to components / configurations and would buy them in a Gemini 2 (2-3 yrs hence).
Ifanafi
one key feature: to be able to replace the board inside the first generation Gemini with an upgraded board one day!
even if Planet didn't do this, I would hope some entrepreneur would step up and make a replacement logic board that could be easily slotted into the carcass to give us an upgrade.
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Hi guys,
After a month with the Gemini, here's my list for hardware improvements...
At this point, this would be order of most to least importance to me:
- proper high quality camera with flash
(I needed one within an hour getting the Gemini)
- external display - large enough for a dozen lines of text?
(try reading the shopping list on an open Gemini!)
- more external buttons - volume, accept & decline
(the external display looses value if you have to open to do anything)
- backlit keyboard
(typing in the dark is impossible)
- support for new call frequencies
Thanks,
PJS
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I expect that my smartwatch (original Huawei, the W1, the best looking of any Android Wear devices IMNSHO) will be invaluable when using my Gemini, allowing me to monitor notifications and cancel incoming calls I don't want, and I'll also be dependent on my bluetooth headset for most calls.
A small external display would probably be needed if I didn't have the above.
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I'm really liking the idea of E-Ink display, for a Psion like daylight display performance. True it would not make for good video playback but I've got enough devices that will do better video playback than a Gemini anyway, and none of them are a tiny little screen like a Gemini, the size means that it is not an ideal video device anyway. For a productivity device, rather than a consumption device E-Ink would be great.
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I have used my Gemini for over a month. My main usage has been MS productivity software (as that fits in with my employer's software requirements), e.g., Outlook, Word, Excel.
Plus I use the Gemini for a bit of internet browsing, playing morning workout videos when I am travelling, and playing old games via emulators. 80s computer games work really well on the Gemini as they mostly do not assume (or often even implement) a mouse, thus work properly when driven via a keyboard only.
I have a 4G version, but have no need for a phone so have not used any phone functions.
Pretty much there is nothing that I really want or miss on the 1st gen. Planet Computers have done a fantastic job.
I would expect a new version to have more RAM, storage and battery; but only because prices tend to drop and software requirements tend to inflate. There is nothing wrong with the provided RAM, storage and battery.
I definitely would not want to see anything that messes with the exterior. Exterior mounted cameras, notifications, etc will mess with the lovely aesthetic of the device.
However:- A couple of user-configurable buttons on the short sides of the exterior would be nice, but not essential.
- A more easily accessible SD card slot would also be nice, but again not essential.
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- Hinge that offers 2 positions (90 degrees and current one). I find myself wishing the screen was perpendicular often
- Capacitive layer underneath keyboard like BlackBerry devices for scrolling and a mouse. When using the hardware keyboard I would love quick access to a mouse pointer
- Silo'd Wacom EMR pen like the Galaxy Notes
- A quality camera module add-on
- ChromeOS option
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After a few days' use:
* Fix/strengthen the hinge. Mine wobbles too much when typing, and I'm worried about bending it back too far. And I've seen reports of it popping off, which is worrying.
* Rubber feet. They don't need to be large or protrude much, but without them it slides around too much on a desk.
* Allow headset buttons to work while the unit is closed.
* Fix the keyboard: the keys are still much too wobbly.
And of course loads of software stuff too...
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I've found the keyboard key action on my later order Gemini (47xx) to be perfect, there is nothing about any of the keys I would describe as wobbly.
Even the space bar works fine with an edge press. I wouldn't change a thing.
In fact I would only want backlit keyboard if it were possible to disable it (to save battery life) as the touch-typability of the Gemini means that I don't need to look at it anyway. This is a skill developed many years ago on Psion that I didn't lose over the years.
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1. A spacebar that works on the left and right side of the key, rather than only in the centre
Have you tried this: https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34914 (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34914)
I did something similar, but used a piece of a sticky label instead of paper. Since then my entire spacebar has worked just fine. Do note that anything thicker than around 0.1mm may prevent the Gemini from closing properly and, in my case, made spacebar feel mushy. A 0.07mm (according to my cheap digital calipers) sticky label was just right for my keyboard (on which I'm typing this).
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Hi,
two years ago I re-activated my Psion 5mx because I wasn't really satisfied with an android tablet for things like text typing (note taking during seminars and such). Though, of course, the Psion 5mx is a technical dinosaur.
I will now switch to the PC Gemini, thus retire my good old Psion 5mx again, because in my opion the PC Gemini merges the best from both worlds.
So far I don't have any requests for features the lack of which would nag me. Just a dream: a conversion app like the good old PsiWin, which would be able to import all that data (word, jotter, data) from the Psion world.
Kind regards
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For my purposes (I write a lot without table/desk) it would be cool to have
- Energy saving display (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi))
- Back lit keyboard
- Some improvements for thumb typing (without sticky keys the Gemini is a way to wide and no fun)
A slightly larger writing tool (https://cl5944.myportfolio.com/product-service-scripto (https://cl5944.myportfolio.com/product-service-scripto)) is another of my dreams.
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One thing I hadn't picked up on was there's no volume control buttons on the outside. I simply took them for granted.
I didn't think I'd miss the fingerprint reader of my LG V20, but I do, because I use LastPass and I can unlock LP and sign in to a website with the touch of a finger.
I'd also like the AptX codec; this may mean switching from Mediatek to Qualcomm for the CPU/GPU SoC. The sound through my bluetooth headset (LG HBS900) is better on my old phone. This is particularly because the sound through the wired headphone jack has a lot of electronic "fuzz" noise.
As before, a miniature trackball would be a bonus. And standardised USB-C video mode to use standard USB-C hubs with HDMI out.
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Backlighting the keyboard would be tricky if they want to avoid making it any thicker, an alternative might be to put a LED roughly where the ambient light sensor is pointing across the keyboard, perhaps a UV LED and phosphorescent ink on the keys would prevent stray (visible) light dazzling the user.
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A Hub/Docking station, slightly wedge shaped to to match the open Gemini and plugging into the right USB C, the hub should have HDMI, RJ45 a few USB A & C sockets, a SD card reader at the front and a track pad on the flat upper surface, power pass through would be nice but might be impractical. Could be used abutting the Gemini or with a short male to female USB C lead put to the left side (for left handers).
Actually the track pad could be optional, just have a blank top plate for users who hate track pads, perhaps with a small pile of Planet branded Post-It notes :-)
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Backlighting the keyboard would be tricky if they want to avoid making it any thicker
perhaps optical fibres could guide the light from some hidden LEDs to under the key caps?
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I've found the keyboard key action on my later order Gemini (47xx) to be perfect
Having done some more typing on my second-batch Gemini, I can say that it's keyboard is clearly not as good as the Psion's. The keys are noisier (and I mean the physical clicky sound, as I've turned off the haptic/vibration and software sounds), they're more likely to stick if you don't press them near the centre, and they're relatively insensitive (many presses don't register).
And the spacebar is particularly bad. Not in the obvious way, though; it works at most points along its length, but you have to hit it pretty close to the middle of its width. If I hit it just a few mm too far up or down, it sticks and won't press. (On my 5mx, you can the spacebar anywhere along any edge or corner. On the Gemini, anywhere near the Voice Assistant label sticks solid.)
It's not bad, and better than some keyboards I've used, but there's still clear room for improvement.
And on the software side, far too many apps don't recognise PgUp/PgDn/Home/End; and there's no way to type characters such as curly quotes and long dashes (and anything else not listed in the Sym or emoji pop-ups).
Plus (as discussed elsewhere) it could do with key shortcuts in the AppBar or elsewhere.
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For the trackball people, would a nipple (1990s toshiba) fit the bill? A trackball would either make the Gemini wider or deeper.
A nipple could sit between the V & B keys. Although, I remember the Tosh one being in the middle row of letter keys.
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Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I'd prefer being able to use a wired headset (ie, I wish the 3.5mm jack would work with a wired headset).
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My list after 3 weeks of happy usage...
1) backlit keyboard
2) hardware volume control
3) fingerprint reader
4) Dock with USB3 ports, HDMI, card reader storage etc.
5) small screen on outside or a different design that allows the screen to be on outside.when closed
6) decent camera - like One+ 5 has
7) better wifi
8) more internal storage for dual boot
9) software switching between OS without reboot!
10) wider screen
11) more than one position for the screen - when watching movies on my daily commute it could do with being 10-15 degrees more upright as the bag on my lap is not level!
12) matt screen
But I love it as it is and hope Planet Computers can make a success of it past the crowd funded campaign.
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Please add a hole for attaching a strap. I live in constant fear of dropping my Gemini.
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For the trackball people, would a nipple (1990s toshiba) fit the bill? A trackball would either make the Gemini wider or deeper.
A nipple could sit between the V & B keys. Although, I remember the Tosh one being in the middle row of letter keys.
1990s Toshiba or 2018 Dell laptop. 5590 for example, has one.
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1) Phone keypad and little screen with caller display details on the exterior, like the Nokia Communicators.
2) NFC
3) Properly-integrated camera
Other than that, love it.
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Some G2 speculation - Gemini PDA could get a Wear OS powered second screen (https://www.slashgear.com/planet-computers-gemini-pda-android-wear-os-external-display-06536798/)
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The lg v20 has a secondary screen. There's been some work getting it functional in Lineage OS. Some people prefer it to a smartwatch. I also have a smartwatch!
An external flash/torch would be good.
Also, how about an IT transmitter so we can control our home theatre devices?
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Lose the haptics on the keyboard, or change it from a buzz to a single click.
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Lose the haptics on the keyboard
I hope you're aware you can turn that off? Gemini Keyboard app -> Preferences -> Vibrate on keypress.
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I hope you're aware you can turn that off?
Absolutely, it's one of the first things I did as I suspect it was for most people.
My point it that it is a pointless feature, although a slight clicky effect to simulate what you get on a mechanical switch might be useful.
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The lg v20 has a secondary screen. There's been some work getting it functional in Lineage OS. Some people prefer it to a smartwatch. I also have a smartwatch!
An external flash/torch would be good.
Also, how about an IT transmitter so we can control our home theatre devices?
Better use a Raspberry or similar with WiFi, FHEM and a NanoCUL. Gives much more flexibility, since this setup ca be used with any device.
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Would like to see the V2 with a display without rounded edges.
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I would like:
a stylus (like the tablet Nokia 770 had, very usefull in Debian).
a backlit keyboard
a better keyboard.
The rest is OK
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Fingerprint sensor! (Back of case, key, I don't care, but something. Didn't realize how much I used it till I lost it, especially for password managers)
Backlit would be nice. A little more oomph processor wise would be nice, too.
Make the USB-C ports work the same way (charge on either, etc.)
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I think the point about charging from either side is a good one. I always worry about a device getting bricked just because the port wears out.
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I would welcome separating the far-left hand side (black box of Planet's links) from the App Bar.
AND, perhaps, the optional ability to float that as a widget anywhere on the desktop.
Speaking frankly, the App Bar becomes redundant after one creates a widget (in Nova Prime Launcher - a circle with two rows of three dots each) to access all installed apps from the desktop.
With that done, the missing black box link to Planet's various links remains inaccessible, and thus this feature tweak request.
Cheers!
P.S. One wonders doubtfully whether or not Planet reviews these requests. but if they do review these, then how bloody long might it take them to incorporate any of these in promised, far-flung-into the future updates?
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Speaking frankly, the App Bar becomes redundant after one creates a widget […] to access all installed apps from the desktop.
Your use must be very different from mine, then! I don't want to be able to access all installed apps from the desktop; I want to be able to access my favourite apps without returning to the desktop!
I'm still using the supplied Launcher3, so I can't speak exactly about Nova Prime. But compare:- Press Alt.
- Wait up to a second for it to appear.
- Tap the app you want. (It's always at the same position, so once you get used to it you know exactly where to tap without looking. And it's always at the bottom of the screen, so not far to reach.)
with:- Press Alt+D. (Or you could press the circle button, but you might have to drop out of full-screen mode first…)
- Wait up to a second for it to appear.
- Check which page is showing, and if necessary, swipe sideways to show the relevant page.
- Tap the app you want. (Because there are several pages, you're less likely to remember exactly where it is. And it could be anywhere on screen, so further to reach.)
It's clear to me which of those is better!
Of course, what I really want is:- Press predefined key combination.
That's how I had my Psion set up: Ctrl+Fn+D opened my dictionary, Ctrl+Fn+F started FreeCell, Ctrl+Fn+Z went to the previous app, &c &c. I'm still not sure whether it's possible to do that on Android…
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Your use must be very different from mine, then! I don't want to be able to access all installed apps from the desktop; I want to be able to access my favourite apps without returning to the desktop!
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Of course, what I really want is:- Press predefined key combination.
That's how I had my Psion set up: Ctrl+Fn+D opened my dictionary, Ctrl+Fn+F started FreeCell, Ctrl+Fn+Z went to the previous app, &c &c. I'm still not sure whether it's possible to do that on Android…
That is how I would like to be able to set up things too. And how I've BEEN set up since my Nokia 9500-days too...
But it seems Planet IS working on something for keyboard shortcuts, my post here (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35268&view=findpost&p=288975), that should at least HINT towards that they are working on it...??
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Your use must be very different from mine, then! I don't want to be able to access all installed apps from the desktop; I want to be able to access my favourite apps without returning to the desktop!
...
Of course, what I really want is:- Press predefined key combination.
That's how I had my Psion set up: Ctrl+Fn+D opened my dictionary, Ctrl+Fn+F started FreeCell, Ctrl+Fn+Z went to the previous app, &c &c. I'm still not sure whether it's possible to do that on Android…
That is how I would like to be able to set up things too. And how I've BEEN set up since my Nokia 9500-days too...
But it seems Planet IS working on something for keyboard shortcuts, my post here (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35268&view=findpost&p=288975), that should at least HINT towards that they are working on it...??
I would like to see a Nokia Communicator style device. With a touchscreen on the top part of the phone.
The screen should also be able to change to the second one that had the keyboard.
I would like to see a similar navigation key that is on the Nokia E90 communicator. (the square one)
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The US keyboard really should not have a backslash and pipe key. Replace that key with apostrophe and quotation mark. People very rarely use backslash on Android or Linux.
Making an external display would only increase costs and make damaging the device much easier. A better idea would be to make the inner display able to flip around and become external. There are several great designs for this from HTC. No need to keep the keyboard exposed wroth this idea, either.
Or they could make the display removable and reversible like the Surface Book. The Communicator design is very antiquated and suboptimal in terms of bulk, cost, weight, and durability.
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Or they could make the display removable and reversible like the Surface Book. The Communicator design is very antiquated and suboptimal in terms of bulk, cost, weight, and durability.
The last phone to get the Communicator "badge" is actually the E7, and it has a "fold-under" keyboard, so it doesn't involve two screens...
But I think I prefer the screen protected inside the device, and maybe a small and simple screen on the outside (maybe an e-ink, or a few lines of LCD text-display).
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But I think I prefer the screen protected inside the device, and maybe a small and simple screen on the outside (maybe an e-ink, or a few lines of LCD text-display).
Having a screen on the covers makes the leather holder pointless as it would obscure the screen, I wonder if they could move the USB and mic on the right side and fit a small LCD showing a single line of text there, also would be better when the device is in a pocket as you could see it without removing it from your pocket - if they want to be really clever make the silver button a rocker or slider switch so you can scroll the text in either direction.
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Having a screen on the covers makes the leather holder pointless as it would obscure the screen, I wonder if they could move the USB and mic on the right side and fit a small LCD showing a single line of text there, also would be better when the device is in a pocket as you could see it without removing it from your pocket - if they want to be really clever make the silver button a rocker or slider switch so you can scroll the text in either direction.
With a removable and reversible display, you can make your screen internal or external. This would satisfy everyone and also allow PC to expand into the much larger candy bar market.
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I believe that any kind of hinge that allows for that kind of use will be too weak for any serious use... And if you make it removable and reversible you could just get a standalone keyboard. You couldn't use the keyboard anyway, when it is "reversed", and with the way the Gemini is designed you would need another battery (on the screen side) to be able to swap it around when it is powered on...
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The reversible and removable hinge is something that has worked well for Microsoft and several other laptop OEMs. Having a removable screen that fits perfectly with the phone portion is also far more desirable than some giant, ungainly Bluetooth keyboard that doesn't match the Gemini size.
The Gemini II would be far more attractive to consumers with a removable keyboard. It also becomes much more versatile for those of us who love the keys. This idea would also increase the battery life.
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The reversible and removable hinge is something that has worked well for Microsoft and several other laptop OEMs. Having a removable screen that fits perfectly with the phone portion is also far more desirable than some giant, ungainly Bluetooth keyboard that doesn't match the Gemini size.
The Gemini II would be far more attractive to consumers with a removable keyboard. It also becomes much more versatile for those of us who love the keys. This idea would also increase the battery life.
OK, when was the last time you carried your laptop in your trouser pocket?? A phone will get far rougher treatment than a laptop, so just because it works on/for laptops (and tablets, for that matter), doesn't mean it will work for a phone. And the added battery life would of course come at the expense of more bulk...
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The Gemini II would be far more attractive to consumers with a removable keyboard. It also becomes much more versatile for those of us who love the keys. This idea would also increase the battery life.
Er, no. The battery is in the keyboard to act as a counterbalance to the screen, if you put the power in the screen part it wouldn't be able to sit like it does now unless the keyboard overhangs a lot behind the screen which would make everything too cumbersome, also you'd lose the protection the keyboard offers the screen when the device is closed.
Just how would it extend the battery life? If the connection is wireless you'd need to charge both the keyboard & the screen separately, people would just love that and it would increase the power consumption and depending on the type of connection (cough Bluetooth) there might be a noticeable lag. If a connector is used then it's fiddly and a certain failure point as crud will ingress the connectors.
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The Gemini II would be far more attractive to consumers with a removable keyboard. It also becomes much more versatile for those of us who love the keys. This idea would also increase the battery life.
Then it may as well be just a bluetooth keyboard with a dock to mount any phone you choose.
As the X27 phone/screen part of the Gemini is a $200 Android phone similar to Elefone S8, what we are paying $400 more for is the keyboard and the keyboard integration (and a bit for all the linux support).
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I quite liked the motomod keyboard, I nearly backed it on indiegogo. If you want a detachable keyboard then you should probably look into that.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard...or-the-moto-z#/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard-mod-a-physical-keyboard-for-the-moto-z#/)
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There are two features I really miss on Gemini, and very much hope to see addressed in Gemini II:
1. Fingerprint reader. Lack of it was extremely hard to forgo, almost a deal-breaker; if it was present I'd probably pledge right from the start.
2. High-quality main camera. Since CPU is MTK, which means no high-end camera module or Google HDR+ to compensate module quality, I made my peace with that.
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Hi all,
After the last few days, my experience has really got me thinking that
Planet *really* needs to look at a better quality SOC chipset for any potential
Gemini follow on...
The problem with cell phone frequencies has only been getting worse and worse
with T-Mobile in the US. T-Mobile is switching the frequencies they use -
trying to bring online lower frequencies that work better in buildings, etc.,
while killing the few frequencies the Mediatek chipset supports.
It's getting quite ugly. I finally get the phone I've waited 20+ years for
and it won't work???
Getting bummed....
PJS
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Hi all,
After the last few days, my experience has really got me thinking that
Planet *really* needs to look at a better quality SOC chipset for any potential
Gemini follow on...
The problem with cell phone frequencies has only been getting worse and worse
with T-Mobile in the US. T-Mobile is switching the frequencies they use -
trying to bring online lower frequencies that work better in buildings, etc.,
while killing the few frequencies the Mediatek chipset supports.
It's getting quite ugly. I finally get the phone I've waited 20+ years for
and it won't work???
Getting bummed....
PJS
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...and that is why I now use my Gemini only as a WiFi device for which it performs rather brilliantly.
Yesterday, I reverted to using my aged Samsung Galaxy S5 for phone service.
By the way, I am considering giving my Gemini to a nephew, Eric, to reconfigure as a Linux terminal device for his tech job.
He thinks it is perfect and really meant for that purpose.
And Eric would get far more and better use from it than I have to date (I am terribly disappointed in the Gemini's cell phone failings and shortcomings).
Ifanafi
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...and that is why I now use my Gemini only as a WiFi device for which it performs rather brilliantly.
Yesterday, I reverted to using my aged Samsung Galaxy S5 for phone service.
By the way, I am considering giving my Gemini to a nephew, Eric, to reconfigure as a Linux terminal device for his tech job.
He thinks it is perfect and really meant for that purpose.
And Eric would get far more and better use from it than I have to date (I am terribly disappointed in the Gemini's cell phone failings and shortcomings).
Ifanafi
I don't have any phone problems with Gemini, it works quite well but that may be because I'm not in USA.
However, even before I received the Gemini I had figured out that it was not going to be a great phone, it was always my intention to keep using my smartpone for smartphone stuff. Not because of connectivity but because of form factor.
However, as a 4g connected input device for writing whilst out on the hoof, the Gemini with Sailfish is the device I've been waiting for and there is nothing else like it.
I would change the screen to e-paper if I could. I don't even need colour, but it is making a big difference to my work already.
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- I don't need a second screen on the outside
- I don't need a trackpoint (or trackpad) when I have a touch screen
- I never needed a fingerprint reader (yet)
- I wouldn't want the 2nd Gemini to be bigger (smaller would be OK)
- I don't have problems with normal typing and none with thumb-typing on the gemini (a first online typing test I've done a few days after I received my Gemini: 214 strokes/min with 2 thumbs, 298/min "normal" 6-8 fingers; 530-590 with a "MX-Blue"-keyboard on the PC for reference; no it's not that one you'll see on my pictures)
- I don't need a bezel-free screen (however, the current round corners are a bit annoying here and there)
but
- I wouldn't say no to a backlit keyboard, especially for the FN-symbol-keys
- I wouldn't say no to an adjustable screen position
- a better integrated rear camera of decent snapshot quality and a flash-light would be also usefull
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The Gemini II would be far more attractive to consumers with a removable keyboard. It also becomes much more versatile for those of us who love the keys. This idea would also increase the battery life.
Then it may as well be just a bluetooth keyboard with a dock to mount any phone you choose.
As the X27 phone/screen part of the Gemini is a $200 Android phone similar to Elefone S8, what we are paying $400 more for is the keyboard and the keyboard integration (and a bit for all the linux support).
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As well as paying for the carrot-and-stick promised Sailfish OS by 2019 AND greatly improved Linux flavors by only they know when.
Ifanafi
P.S. One hopes against the odds that Planet is taking copious notes from this section for inclusion of the best, doable features for its 2.0 version.
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- I wouldn't want the 2nd Gemini to be bigger (smaller would be OK)
- I don't have problems with normal typing and none with thumb-typing on the gemini (a first online typing test I've done a few days after I received my Gemini: 214 strokes/min with 2 thumbs, 298/min "normal" 6-8 fingers; 530-590 with a "MX-Blue"-keyboard on the PC for reference; no it's not that one you'll see on my pictures)
Agree with the slightly smaller. On the thumb-typing I'm getting more comfortable with the Gemini... But I have to say that without sticky keys (for caps, Fn, Cntrl, etc.) it doesn't even get close to being as easy as my Zaurus SL-C3200. The only reason I'm finally moving away from the Zaurus after 15+ years of use is its lack of built in connectivity... Do you not find the Gemini keyboard pretty much all the way at the upper limit of size for thumb typing?
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A simple unambiguous way to enter F1 to F12, or at least F1 to F10. Can't use the normal modifier keys because it should be possible to apply them to the F keys - perhaps reduce the width of the number keys and add an extra narrow button at the end of that row to act as an F modifier for the number keys to give F1 to F10
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^ Yes, yes, F-Keys would be very usefull, I forgot. I never never ever used CAPS on a keyboard, so it would be nice if Caps could be reprogrammed as "change the number keys to F-keys") - but it should work in all emulators as well, and that could be a problem then..
Do you not find the Gemini keyboard pretty much all the way at the upper limit of size for thumb typing?
it shouldn't be bigger, indeed, but normally I don't use thumb-typing on the Gemini, especially if I want to write more.. but nonetheless it's 1000x better than thumb-typing "omn atht ipohne on-scteen- keybprd" ;-) (well, ok, it was not that bad, on my previous mentioned typing test I had 150 strokes/min on the iPhone 5S thumb-typing with an accuracy of 89,82% (incl. corrections) and 214/min on the Gemini but with 99,07% accuracy (incl. corrections))
However I don't have any problems with my thumb on FN or ALT and my index finger on the (left) shift, and the shift key is on both sides anyway, so no need for sticky keys (for me) ..
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After two months of Gemini usage, I would be happy to have (in order of importance):
1. high quality external camera
2. better headset quality (I have some static noise which is annoying)
3. OLED display
4. larger battery (at least 8000 mAh, the 4k is minimally better than 3k batteries in most top phones)
5. backlit keyboard
6. smaller bezel on the left and right side (but edge to edge is not necessary)
7. user configurable keyboard
8. better split-screen setup
9. one USB 3 port (this could fit in at the CAPS LOCK light)
Right now I feel that I do not need:
- fingerprint sensor
- NFC
- stylus
- external display
- two SIM slots
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My only wish is a backlit keyboard with color options (at least green, and maybe red) I had a R/G/B one (https://www.geekinsider.com/review-iclever-3-color-backlight-bluetooth-keyboard/), and never used the blue one it is too intense.
I also tried the mac as well as lenovo backlit, and it is usually difficult to find the right amount of white light.
I see many people wanting an external display, I guess that would be pretty cool, have you considered to getting a pebble of ebay and making an account on http://rebble.io/ (http://rebble.io/) ?
I still use my pebble, and it is amazing with the gemini.
9. one USB 3 port (this could fit in at the CAPS LOCK light)
I think both the USB ports are version 3 already (maybe you wanted the classical shape 'type A'?)
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Just thought of this when reading another thread were the height of the screen was an issue.
Many people want some kind of screen on the outside.
So, and this is a major redesign but what the hell. Add a second screen to the existing one hinged at the top of it so when shut it concertinas down and the new extra screen is facing out, when opened the new screen is above the existing one giving you an effective double height screen. I suspect power distribution could be an issue but possibly a small battery or super cap in the bezel might be enough.
The device would be quite a bit thicker but the advantage of having a large screen might be enough to justify it.
A compromise might be to have a full width but half height extra screen which could fold back into a depression on the main screen back when shut (look I'm thinking of this as I type, don't expect perfection) and would effectively extend the main screen to 1620 high when opened and could probably be done without adding too much to the overall thickness.
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The option of a 'Factory Flash', preinstalled OS's, I'll have Sailfish & Debian please!!
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As well as paying for the carrot-and-stick promised Sailfish OS by 2019 AND greatly improved Linux flavors by only they know when.
Sailfish OS by 2019 is going to require a separate payment to Jolla to use all features including support for Android apps.
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Sailfish OS by 2019 is going to require a separate payment to Jolla to use all features including support for Android apps.
That is the latest (not released yet) version of Sailfish - version 3. I have been using the PC supplied community edition 2.1.4.14 since it was released, and have to say it is brilliant, bugs and all
I'll be lining up to buy version 3 when it comes out - jolla is a small dev team and I don't begrudge giving them money for a good product.
To add my 2 cents to this thread, my list would be (including the highly unoriginal, but popular hardware features):
* factory installed sailfish 3 (or later) version option
* back-lit keyboard
* better camera
Obviously updated chipset/ram/flash etc is always good on a V2.
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I suspect a backlit keyboard won't be viable.
Right now, all keyboards start off with the same set of blank keys, and then the labels are ‘etched’ with a laser (causing the plastic to lighten and expand slightly). All keyboard layouts can be etched with the same machine; it's very quick.
However, if the keyboard were backlit, each key would have to be moulded from two types of plastic (the opaque dark grey, and a translucent white), customised for the particular label. I suspect this couldn't be done in-house, but would need each keyboard variant to be carefully designed, ordered in, and stored.
Having different keyboard layouts probably complicates Planet's logistics enough already: the number of models they have to deal with is at least twice the number of keyboard layouts (one for Wifi-only and one for 4G variants — and more due to the different mains adapters). But ordering in keys with labels would probably complicate it an awful lot more. This is feasible for a company with the size (and margins) of Apple or Dell, but for Planet I fear it may not be.
And all that's before you consider the difficulties of piping light (whether through fibres or air) through the rubber membrane, the extra battery drain…
But don't get too downcast. I've been using that keyboard in bed almost every night for 20 years (first on a Psion 5/5mx, and now on a Gemini), and I've hardly ever had any trouble hitting the right keys. (There aren't quite as many as on a full-size computer keyboard, for one thing; and I find my thumbs learned very quickly where to go.) So I don't think the lack of a backlight justifies that much concern, really.
For me, things like allowing earphone buttons to work with the lid closed, getting the built-in speakers to work in-phase and in stereo, fixing the wobbly keys, ensuring the hinge is strong enough, and adding rubber feet are much more important.
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I second your suggestions "...things like allowing earphone buttons to work with the lid closed, getting the built-in speakers to work in-phase and in stereo, fixing the wobbly keys, ensuring the hinge is (tempered) strong enough, and adding rubber feet are much more important."
Ifanafi
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The option of a 'Factory Flash', preinstalled OS's, I'll have Sailfish & Debian please!!
* factory installed sailfish 3 (or later) version option
Well I just had this correspondence below with ´hello@planetcom´ which sort of puts the kybosh on my procurement plans.
MC: Do you have any plans to ship the Gemini with other preinstalled OS configurations, (personally I'm thinking Sailfish and Debian), in the near future?
PC: I don't believe that the Gemini would be shipping with the dual boot setup out of the box. The majority of our customers prefer to use Android.
Such a shame, I´d even convinced my girlfriend I needed one.
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It's really not that hard to flash your Gemini to run Sailfish and Debian.
If you lived near Cambridge England I'd happily meet up over a beer or coffee and do it for for.
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But don't get too downcast. I've been using that keyboard in bed almost every night for 20 years (first on a Psion 5/5mx, and now on a Gemini), and I've hardly ever had any trouble hitting the right keys. (There aren't quite as many as on a full-size computer keyboard, for one thing; and I find my thumbs learned very quickly where to go.) So I don't think the lack of a backlight justifies that much concern, really.
I almost agree, but the one problem with this (for me, at least) is finding where to put my fingers. I often end up with my hand one key off. It would be great if the next model had little nobs on the F and J keys so that you can recognise them by feeling that, just like a usual keyboard has. That's the one thing I'd like addressed, and it seems easy to do, but what do I know.
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I suspect a backlit keyboard won't be viable.
Right now, all keyboards start off with the same set of blank keys, and then the labels are ‘etched’ with a laser (causing the plastic to lighten and expand slightly). All keyboard layouts can be etched with the same machine; it's very quick.
However, if the keyboard were backlit, each key would have to be moulded from two types of plastic (the opaque dark grey, and a translucent white), customised for the particular label. I suspect this couldn't be done in-house, but would need each keyboard variant to be carefully designed, ordered in, and stored.
Having different keyboard layouts probably complicates Planet's logistics enough already: the number of models they have to deal with is at least twice the number of keyboard layouts (one for Wifi-only and one for 4G variants — and more due to the different mains adapters). But ordering in keys with labels would probably complicate it an awful lot more. This is feasible for a company with the size (and margins) of Apple or Dell, but for Planet I fear it may not be.
And all that's before you consider the difficulties of piping light (whether through fibres or air) through the rubber membrane, the extra battery drain…
But don't get too downcast. I've been using that keyboard in bed almost every night for 20 years (first on a Psion 5/5mx, and now on a Gemini), and I've hardly ever had any trouble hitting the right keys. (There aren't quite as many as on a full-size computer keyboard, for one thing; and I find my thumbs learned very quickly where to go.) So I don't think the lack of a backlight justifies that much concern, really.
For me, things like allowing earphone buttons to work with the lid closed, getting the built-in speakers to work in-phase and in stereo, fixing the wobbly keys, ensuring the hinge is strong enough, and adding rubber feet are much more important.
For years the thinkpads use a "neat" trick - the led in the display that lits the keyboard from top - just one diod properly placed can do that. In times I used jornada, I helped myself by tilting display slightly towards the keyboard and there was enought light to see a keyboard symbols. With Gemini this is hardly possible, as the display has only one position and it would not hold half way open., so the keyboard remains dark, which I also somethimes see as a problem.
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The old Fujitsu u810 had two lights under its display that shone out onto the keyboard. That wouldn't work on a Gemini, but you could shoot out 45-degree beams from either side of the display.
That said, the Fujitsu u810 setup wasn't the best lighting of a keyboard.
Jake
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For years the thinkpads use a "neat" trick - the led in the display that lits the keyboard from top - just one diod properly placed can do that. In times I used jornada, I helped myself by tilting display slightly towards the keyboard and there was enought light to see a keyboard symbols. With Gemini this is hardly possible, as the display has only one position and it would not hold half way open., so the keyboard remains dark, which I also somethimes see as a problem.
It IS possible (although VERY awkward) to use the old Communicator trick (probably used mostly on the 9500/9300...) of tilting the screen to shine on the keyboard. But there are two major problems with using this on the Gemini:- You need a lighter background than the one which is standard on the password-screen of the Gemini to be able to use it properly there...
- The hinge is "spring-loaded", so it requires additional force to hold it at the right angle. The Nokia 9500 also had only one "angle" it opened to, but it didn't have a spring-mechanism "pushing" it open...
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oh yes, I also pretty much miss a backlit keyb, not really because of the letters itself, but because of the special characters that are set on several buttons.
and some mark on the 'f' and 'j' buttons that are sensable with my fingers would be nice.
i think i'll never understand those who need droid to be preinstalled, i think that the target group of such phones would like to get rid of the holy trinity (droid/iphone/win) - but this is just my guess.
maybe the other option could be a slidable phone instead of openable, this hinge also bothers me a little, especially on hard surface.
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oh yes, I also pretty much miss a backlit keyb
It would be nice, yes. I don't think it's likely, though.
There's little room under the keyboard for extra LEDs and/or fibres. But, more significantly, the keytops themselves would need to change completely: instead of manufacturing five* sizes of blanks and then using a laser to ‘print’ the letters on for the relevant language, I think each keytop would need to be manufactured separately for each language. That's feasible for a company like Apple, but I suspect it's simply impractical for the small manufacturing volumes for each Gemini keyboard type.
[size=](* Full-size keys, top row keys, Space, Enter, and Tab.)[/size]
and some mark on the 'f' and 'j' buttons that are sensible with my fingers would be nice.
Mmm.
I wonder whether a tiny drop of cyanoacrylate glue (‘Superglue’ &c) would work? Anyone want to try that?
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A shiny white led on the outside would also be nice like on phones nowadays, so one can use it as a flashlight for example looking for something in the dark.
Regarding to different keyboards to different languagages: when ordering the Gemini you have to choose the language of the keyboard. Still, I still did not have my Precious One if I do not choose the default US layout. So I think this is a dead end anyway also without backlit.
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Planet should make the users vote using one of the online available voting sites to actually see which features are the most looked for...