OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Gemini PDA => Gemini PDA - Sailfish OS => Topic started by: depscribe on March 06, 2018, 07:56:29 pm
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It looks as though a working Linux for Gemini is some time away. And I just picked up an old and unused Android tablet I had around here and was mortified by the permissions I am required to grant to very nearly anything I care to install. I wish to be utterly rid of Android at the first opportunity. But I can find no reference to any version of Sailfish for Gemini that currently exists. The nice videos talk about Sailfish 3.0, available in the autumn sometime. Is there no current Sailfish for Gemini? And the community version shown no sign, at least on its webpage, of being available for anything except a Sony phone, and even then one is more or less invited to write it himself. No offense intended to the good people of PC, but they seem to promise all sorts of things, but they offer execrable Android plus a long list of vaporware. I really hope I am wrong, but . . .
So is there a Sailfish OS that anyone knows of that works on the Gemini?
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It looks as though a working Linux for Gemini is some time away. And I just picked up an old and unused Android tablet I had around here and was mortified by the permissions I am required to grant to very nearly anything I care to install. I wish to be utterly rid of Android at the first opportunity. But I can find no reference to any version of Sailfish for Gemini that currently exists. The nice videos talk about Sailfish 3.0, available in the autumn sometime. Is there no current Sailfish for Gemini? And the community version shown no sign, at least on its webpage, of being available for anything except a Sony phone, and even then one is more or less invited to write it himself. No offense intended to the good people of PC, but they seem to promise all sorts of things, but they offer execrable Android plus a long list of vaporware. I really hope I am wrong, but . . .
So is there a Sailfish OS that anyone knows of that works on the Gemini?
Currently a POC version (based on 2.1.x it think) exists and was showcased on the MWC, but is not available publicly. It is unclear if that version will be ever released.
My hopes are for the the official version of Sailfish OS 3 later this year as it will contain new features that will be beneficial for use on the Gemini PDA.
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It looks as though a working Linux for Gemini is some time away. And I just picked up an old and unused Android tablet I had around here and was mortified by the permissions I am required to grant to very nearly anything I care to install. I wish to be utterly rid of Android at the first opportunity. But I can find no reference to any version of Sailfish for Gemini that currently exists. The nice videos talk about Sailfish 3.0, available in the autumn sometime. Is there no current Sailfish for Gemini? And the community version shown no sign, at least on its webpage, of being available for anything except a Sony phone, and even then one is more or less invited to write it himself. No offense intended to the good people of PC, but they seem to promise all sorts of things, but they offer execrable Android plus a long list of vaporware. I really hope I am wrong, but . . .
So is there a Sailfish OS that anyone knows of that works on the Gemini?
Currently a POC version (based on 2.1.x it think) exists and was showcased on the MWC, but is not available publicly. It is unclear if that version will be ever released.
My hopes are for the the official version of Sailfish OS 3 later this year as it will contain new features that will be beneficial for use on the Gemini PDA.
Actually it is version 2.2.0.44 as this photo reveals.
https://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1802/Sail...18/P1388100.jpg (https://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1802/SailfishOSMWC2018/P1388100.jpg)
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Currently a POC version (based on 2.1.x it think) exists and was showcased on the MWC, but is not available publicly. It is unclear if that version will be ever released.
My hopes are for the the official version of Sailfish OS 3 later this year as it will contain new features that will be beneficial for use on the Gemini PDA.
Thanks. I was afraid of that.
And I guess we do not know what was working on the version they got running on at least one machine, which we can hope was a stock Gemini. If it supported the hardware, albeit imperfectly, it seems like something they might ought to release. Along with whatever Linux they had in the video that led at least one of us to send them money. The video showed working LibreOffice and GIMP. That was some months ago. The impression was that the thing would ship with working Linux. The impression imparted seems to be at variance with the facts.
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Currently a POC version (based on 2.1.x it think) exists and was showcased on the MWC, but is not available publicly. It is unclear if that version will be ever released.
My hopes are for the the official version of Sailfish OS 3 later this year as it will contain new features that will be beneficial for use on the Gemini PDA.
Thanks. I was afraid of that.
And I guess we do not know what was working on the version they got running on at least one machine, which we can hope was a stock Gemini. If it supported the hardware, albeit imperfectly, it seems like something they might ought to release. Along with whatever Linux they had in the video that led at least one of us to send them money. The video showed working LibreOffice and GIMP. That was some months ago. The impression was that the thing would ship with working Linux. The impression imparted seems to be at variance with the facts.
The Sailfish OS port shown at MWC is very likely using the Android kernel with libhybris support. This means all the hardware supported under Android will be available for Sailfish OS, including LTE/4G etc.
This is all very much work in progress, yes. For the Sailfish OS and Linux support one has to be a bit patient. The Linux support is also done mostly by volunteers so the more developers get their unit the more work can be done. The Sailfish OS 3 support may be official by Jolla and properly tuned for the device.
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The Sailfish OS port shown at MWC is very likely using the Android kernel with libhybris support. This means all the hardware supported under Android will be available for Sailfish OS, including LTE/4G etc.
This is all very much work in progress, yes. For the Sailfish OS and Linux support one has to be a bit patient. The Linux support is also done mostly by volunteers so the more developers get their unit the more work can be done. The Sailfish OS 3 support may be official by Jolla and properly tuned for the device.
I have no complaint with the community, but I grow increasingly skeptical about PC. Which is reinforced by my just now going back to look again at the video of the Gemini running Linux/LibreOffice/GIMP and it is no longer on Vimeo.
It is indeed very much a work in progress. That is not what we were led to believe. Trying to put the best possible face on it, I was at least hoping there would be a non-Android OS absent the promised and demonstrated on video Linux. Of the possibilities, Sailfish seemed the likeliest because it was actually working on a telephone. But now I learn not even it is available.
Now, it can be argued that PC is a company of only three or four people and it is amazing that they produced what they did in a year. But I daresay that if they had said upfront that they were a company of three or four people seeking investors to produce a phone that more or less runs Android though is lacking some common features plus some other operating systems if someone decides to write them, they would have gotten many fewer backers. Based on what I have seen so far, it seems like a phone that kind of sucks, but it has a keyboard. A list of ideas, only some of which were realized. Much of which I would be happy to accept if the list of non-Android OSes was other than vaporware.
Really, really disappointing. I very much regret sending them money.
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I apologize. I found the Gemini Linux video: https://vimeo.com/239095559 (https://vimeo.com/239095559)
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Up to this point, I think Planet have been mostly concentrating on the hardware side.
And I think that's exactly the right thing for them to do. Software can be added and updated after delivery; hardware can't.
So if you're expecting a 100% complete, polished, all-singing, all-dancing device from the moment you open the box, you should prepare yourself for slight disappointment.
I, on the other hand, am in it for the long term. [fx: glances down at 19-year-old Psion 5mx open and running on desk.] Given Planet's limited resources, I'm pleased to hear that the Gemini's hardware seems fully functional, elegant, and polished. And I'm very pleased to hear that as well as customising Android, they're also providing tools and making the platform as open as they can, including supporting the free software community in porting and supporting several other OSs on it. I suspect that will matter much more in the long term than a short delay in providing a Debian download.
In short: patience, my friend. Patience
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Up to this point, I think Planet have been mostly concentrating on the hardware side.
Yes, that's obvious, in that hardware exists. Given the reports we've seen come in, though, I am not sure I'd recommend them in the concentration department. I'm thinking of all those pictures they put up of the happy Planet folks at the factory -- but none of them noticed that the wrong chip was being installed, which makes you wonder why they were spending limited resources being there at all. At minimum, QC has been kind of poor, and one might reasonably suppose that being there they would have gotten a sense of that.
And I think that's exactly the right thing for them to do. Software can be added and updated after delivery; hardware can't.
On the Indiegogo page the Gemini is titled: "Gemini PDA Android & Linux keyboard mobile device," only it was shipped as "Gemini PDA Android keyboard mobile device ." This might be forgiven were it not for a thorough-going tone deafness -- producing a Linux installer that runs only on Windows, for instance. What were they thinking? Were they thinking at all? It could be argued that they had time to produce only one. Fair enough -- but don't you suppose that just about any sentient being would therefore release one for Linux? Then, it takes them 10 days to discover for themselves what everybody who had received one has known for more than a week -- the wrong chip is in it. We get news that the device cannot be charged while the hub is attached, which for some of us is a Very Big Deal. There is at least one reliable report that if one has the device on while it is being charged, it goes into a reboot loop. If this is concentration on hardware, I suppose we might give thanks that they didn't concentrate on software.
So if you're expecting a 100% complete, polished, all-singing, all-dancing device from the moment you open the box, you should prepare yourself for slight disappointment.
I was expecting them to deliver what they said they were going to deliver. If there were to be no reliable Linux, that's something they should have said months ago instead of releasing a video purporting to show how far along Linux was on the device. That would have been honest and forgiveable, and knowing that I suspect many of us would have backed them anyway. Doing it the way they did, with their unsurpassed tone deafness, we're left to think that they told us things when they knew or should have known otherwise. I choose the latter, because I try never to attribute to malice that for which stupidity will answer. But either way, the effect is the same -- it's difficult to trust what they say, such as the wrong chip débâcle being somebody else's fault. No, it's not. They are responsible for making sure the representations they make are accurate.
I, on the other hand, am in it for the long term. [fx: glances down at 19-year-old Psion 5mx open and running on desk.] Given Planet's limited resources, I'm pleased to hear that the Gemini's hardware seems fully functional, elegant, and polished. And I'm very pleased to hear that as well as customising Android, they're also providing tools and making the platform as open as they can, including supporting the free software community in porting and supporting several other OSs on it. I suspect that will matter much more in the long term than a short delay in providing a Debian download.
I do not disparage your approach in the slightest. But again, the device is offered as "Gemini PDA Android & Linux keyboard mobile device," not "Gemini PDA Android & Linux keyboard mobile device for those in it for the long haul and who hope that it will one day be a Gemini PDA Android & Linux keyboard mobile device." But no, they kept us informed of very little, and much of what they told and showed us turned out to be wrong or else did not reflect any known reality. Videos of Linux running happily and well. Pictures of the wonderful factory where each and every Gemini was being perfectly assembled.
In short: patience, my friend. Patience
At this point we have no choice. But I think that we would benefit from keeping PC's feet to the fire a little bit. I hope the reaction to their waiting to address the chip issue (and their failure to address any of the other issues except by, occasionally, scrolling way down in the Indiegogo comments section) will help them to see that keeping us informed in a timely manner is a far better way of dealing with people called "backers" than what they've been doing.
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What does any of that have to do with Sailfish OS being developed for the Gemini?
Back on topic...
The more I look into the Sailfish OS, the more I like it. But, talk about a niche of a niche. They developed a whole OS around a single obscure smartphone. The Gemini is only the 3rd planned device planned to use Sailfish.
But - if Sailfish can do what it is meant to do, it could be the ideal distribution for the Gemini. Effectively it should give us a Linux system with Android drivers to match the phone's hardware and the ability to use Linux and Android applications without rebooting.
Where do I line up to be a Sailfish beta tester once I have my Gemini in-hand?
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What does any of that have to do with Sailfish OS being developed for the Gemini?
I agree I slid off-topic -- I was simply trying to find out if there were any of the offered operating systems other than Android (of which Sailfish is of course one) that actually supports the Gemini hardware and that can be gotten and installed. Like you, I think Sailfish shows great promise and, like more familiar Linux distributions, it's one of the operating systems that have been displayed working on Gemini. So it began by my desire to find out if there is an actual version of Sailfish for Gemini that is actually available for anyone to get and use. The answer was, sadly, no.
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And the community version shown no sign, at least on its webpage, of being available for anything except a Sony phone, and even then one is more or less invited to write it himself.
The more I look into the Sailfish OS, the more I like it. But, talk about a niche of a niche. They developed a whole OS around a single obscure smartphone. The Gemini is only the 3rd planned device planned to use Sailfish.
None of these statements are accurate. First, community builds of Sailfish are not supported or promoted by Jolla. The developers that build them distribute them through their own preferred channels so you have to look in places other than Jolla-managed web sites for them, but they exist for a lot of devices. http://talk.maemo.org/ (http://talk.maemo.org/) and https://forum.xda-developers.com/jolla-sailfish/general (https://forum.xda-developers.com/jolla-sailfish/general) are good places to start if you are looking for builds to download. These community builds lack the features that Jolla licence from third parties for commercial builds, specifically Android support, MS Exchange support and predictive text input.
Even considering just the commercial builds, it is simply not true that the Gemini is only the third device planned for Sailfish. Other devices include the Jolla 1, the Intex Aquafish, the Jala Accione, the Turing Phone. The Jolla Tablet was definitely planned for Sailfish (what else ), although very few were eventually shipped. Even the tablet, which was the final nail in the coffin of Jolla's hardware strategy, seems to be about to come back from the dead. Just look on Indiegogo
"developed .. around a single obscure smartphone" is also not really correct. It is just that Jolla's early strategy was to ship their own smartphone as a showcase for the OS, but that strategy always involved licencing Sailfish for other devices too.
This is getting away from Gemini-specific issues, but I hope that it helps fill in some of the background.
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There exists 2.1.3.7 image for Gemini
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There exists 2.1.3.7 image for Gemini
Where
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Guys, i can't post the link public, because of the wish of the Porter, but you can ping me on Telegram: @explit
and i will give you the Link, if you promise me not to post it public
I'll make sure that the link will be removed, in case anybody will post it
Varti
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Is there any way for those of us not on Telegram?
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Is there any way for those of us not on Telegram?
+1 - maybe PM?
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Is there any way for those of us not on Telegram?
+1 - maybe PM?
+2 - I'm excited to see this OS, 'in the wild'. I would prefer to get it directly from Jolla though. This method feels a bit grey.
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Is there any way for those of us not on Telegram?
+1 - maybe PM?
+2 - I'm excited to see this OS, 'in the wild'. I would prefer to get it directly from Jolla though. This method feels a bit grey.
+3 - Also want to try it out, once I get my Gemini.
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Is there any way for those of us not on Telegram?
+1 - maybe PM?
+2 - I'm excited to see this OS, 'in the wild'. I would prefer to get it directly from Jolla though. This method feels a bit grey.
+3 - Also want to try it out, once I get my Gemini.
I'd really like to be using sailfish as my main driver. Gemini not due until June but would like to be prepared! If PMing is an option then yes please!
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Is there any way for those of us not on Telegram?
+1 - maybe PM?
+2 - I'm excited to see this OS, 'in the wild'. I would prefer to get it directly from Jolla though. This method feels a bit grey.
+3 - Also want to try it out, once I get my Gemini.
I'd really like to be using sailfish as my main driver. Gemini not due until June but would like to be prepared! If PMing is an option then yes please!
+4..... please
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As stated earlier, Explit will send the download link to anyone who'll ask for it on Telegram. This might be annoying for anyone who doesn't have an account there, but please understand that he's not allowed to release the link in the wild, and that he needs to keep a list of all the users who are downloading it. Also, it's much easier to maintain the list if all the request come from one source only.
Varti
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As stated earlier, Explit will send the download link to anyone who'll ask for it on Telegram. This might be annoying for anyone who doesn't have an account there, but please understand that he's not allowed to release the link in the wild, and that he needs to keep a list of all the users who are downloading it. Also, it's much easier to maintain the list if all the request come from one source only.
Varti
Roger that!
Telegram sent.
Many thanks
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Also is there anyone able to share their experince of this current "unofficial test" release of Sailfish on Gemini?
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Also is there anyone able to share their experince of this current "unofficial test" release of Sailfish on Gemini?
I have read some comments on IRC from an user testing it. The installation was apparently a pain, apart from that it was much more finished and faster than Debian. Everything seemed to be working except for camera and gps, the display also tended to go upside down if the device was tilted forward, probably because the accelerometer is in the keyboard part and that was confusing it.
Varti
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I found this use full info below if anyone does manage to get it and want to take it for a spin.
Installing Sailfish
It's now in "closed beta". Don't ask me where to download it from. Hopefully it will be public soon. Here are the steps to install it in it's current form:
Install Android + Linux image, set up Debian (at least run resize2fs if you don't run the full script)
Make a backup of linux_boot: sudo dd of=linux-boot.img if=/dev/disk/by-partlabel/linux_boot
Download the sailfish .zip file to Android's Download directory. For some reason TWRP didn't find it if i just copied it to Android filesystem via Debian. MicroSD card should also work.
Boot TWRP.
Select the .zip from Downloads and install.
Power off and boot to Linux. Sailfish should start. The tutorial is a bit broken but you should get past it.
In Sailfish make a backup of linux_boot: dd of=sailfish-boot.img if=/dev/disk/by-partlabel/linux_boot
Switching between Sailfish and Debian
Overwrite the linux_boot partition with image you made earlier. For example to get from Sailfish to Debian, use dd if=linux-boot.img of=/dev/disk/by-partlabel/linux_boot
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I was going to install this, but decided to wait for the full sailfish 3. It has functionality specific to the gemini (hardware keyboard) and is designed to run on it. From the limited demo videos available online, it looks really slick. Good things come to those who wait - 1yr for my gemini, worth the wait........