OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Gemini PDA => Gemini PDA - General Discussion => Topic started by: Ifanafi on July 08, 2018, 03:28:54 pm
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USA Phone & Data Networks: Which ones work or don't work and why...
There is much consternation herein with USA phone carriers / data networks services that are or have become incompatible with the Gemini 4G WiFi device.
That is because the Gemini is UNCERTIFIED by them. Certification is an expensive nuisance. One Planet Computers is not (Yet, if ever?) able to invest in.
The reality is that some Gemini backers on networks like VERIZON, which are known to restrict and hobble their SIM chips so that settings like APN cannot be changed, and more... are less than fully functional.
Such is the sorry state of this backer's Gemini use - SMS / TEXTS are sometimes sent, other times not. Since the latest firmware update, SMS / texts are now not received when they are sometimes sent.
LIST OF USA NETWORKS:
1. VERIZON = serious problems with calls and / or text messaging.
Your input about Verizon is welcomed.
Info about other USA networks that work 100% is welcomed.
Thank you.
Ifanafi
P.S. I am minutes away from pulling the SIM from my Gemini (writing it off as a loss) and resurrecting my factory-reset Samsung Galaxy S5.
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So, I use Ting (https://ting.com), which is a Sprint & T-Mobile resaler, and I have no issues. Data, Voice, SMS, MMS, & tethering all work no issues. One of their selling points is bringing phones on to their network.
DM if you want a to give them a try and get a $25 service credit.
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USA Phone & Data Networks: Which ones work or don't work and why...
There is much consternation herein with USA phone carriers / data networks services that are or have become incompatible with the Gemini 4G WiFi device.
That is because the Gemini is UNCERTIFIED by them. Certification is an expensive nuisance. One Planet Computers is not (Yet, if ever?) able to invest in.
The reality is that some Gemini backers on networks like VERIZON, which are known to restrict and hobble their SIM chips so that settings like APN cannot be changed, and more... are less than fully functional.
Such is the sorry state of this backer's Gemini use - SMS / TEXTS are sometimes sent, other times not. Since the latest firmware update, SMS / texts are now not received when they are sometimes sent.
LIST OF USA NETWORKS:
1. VERIZON = serious problems with calls and / or text messaging.
Your input about Verizon is welcomed.
Info about other USA networks that work 100% is welcomed.
Thank you.
Ifanafi
P.S. I am minutes away from pulling the SIM from my Gemini (writing it off as a loss) and resurrecting my factory-reset Samsung Galaxy S5.
2. AT&T - I am using an AT&T SIM Card and added the Gemini (booting Android as shipped) to my data account, and data acquisition has been fine. I even used it while traveling in a car for a Zoom conference and found that I was able to follow the conference presentations on the Gemini but I used my iPhone for the voice link. I have also streamed Netflix nicely on AT&T for short periods on the Gemini. I live about 30 miles from NY City so there is full coverage.
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Works on the T-Mobile side of Project Fi. Does not roam to Sprint or other Fi carriers, which is as expected, it's not a Fi device.
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+1 on the Verizon Wireless problems. Can only receive calls, cannot make them. Can only send texts, cannot receive them. This happens whether I use Android or
Sailfish. I spent significant time discussing the Gemini issues with the second level of tech support @ Verizon Wireless. They told me the Gemini will not work on their network unless/until the manufacturer (Planet Computers LTD) contacts them and works out the details.
I had planned on using the Gemini as a replacement for my Nexus 5x, as well as a very portable linux device to replace my long in the tooth IBM thinkpad (yup, not Lenovo) which I had been using with linux to travel to and manage some industrial equipment. The Gemini does the latter OK, but at least for me, it's not a replacement for a phone.
I should have bought the wifi-only model. I should have bought it through the indiegogo campaign, rather than direct from Planet Computers. Oh yeah -- also I haven't received the leather pouch I ordered with the device back in May. Sigh. Chalk it up to experience, live and learn, etc.
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T-Mobile on the Eastern US works very well: calls in and out, 4G, steady data.
Since I use the Gem as my only phone, I do notice some incoming calls going directly to voice mail--my guess is that a weak-signalled call, such as from a car, doesn't connect all the lines. That's happened about three times. And it did not happen with my T-Mobile/Blackberry Priv.
I have not yet suffered any dropped calls going out from my end. SMS works fine, both ways.
Jake
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MikeC
Please repost / email your 'me too' Verizon issues directly to Planet's support AND CC: robin @ planetcom.co.uk because this Verizon predicament is unacceptable given Planet's assertions that the Gemini would work on the Verizon network.
Thanks you.
In the meantime, I am investigating other cell carriers replies herein have mentioned.
------------------
+1 on the Verizon Wireless problems. Can only receive calls, cannot make them. Can only send texts, cannot receive them. This happens whether I use Android or
Sailfish. I spent significant time discussing the Gemini issues with the second level of tech support @ Verizon Wireless. They told me the Gemini will not work on their network unless/until the manufacturer (Planet Computers LTD) contacts them and works out the details.
I had planned on using the Gemini as a replacement for my Nexus 5x, as well as a very portable linux device to replace my long in the tooth IBM thinkpad (yup, not Lenovo) which I had been using with linux to travel to and manage some industrial equipment. The Gemini does the latter OK, but at least for me, it's not a replacement for a phone.
I should have bought the wifi-only model. I should have bought it through the indiegogo campaign, rather than direct from Planet Computers. Oh yeah -- also I haven't received the leather pouch I ordered with the device back in May. Sigh. Chalk it up to experience, live and learn, etc.
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Thanks for replying.
Good start. Same cell number porting to Ting from Verizon is doable.
Ifanafi
So, I use Ting (https://ting.com), which is a Sprint & T-Mobile resaler, and I have no issues. Data, Voice, SMS, MMS, & tethering all work no issues. One of their selling points is bringing phones on to their network.
DM if you want a to give them a try and get a $25 service credit.
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Hi,
I'm in the DC area and on T-Mobile and have been seeing the exact same
issues I saw with my old LG F3Q phone (I got from T-Mobile!). T-Mobile has
been switching away from the frequencies that phone and Gemini support. This
reflected in the only 60% support listed on FrequencyCheck:
https://www.frequencycheck.com/compatibilit...e/united-states (https://www.frequencycheck.com/compatibility/EaDXIlv/planet-computers-gemini-pda-lte/united-states)
As a result, when the Gem gets a good compatible signal, most everything is
great - solid 4G and 4G LTE. But there are tons of times when any modern phone
will get 4G and the Gem only sees 3G or little/no signal at all. That means
dropped calls and spotty data when a coworker's T-Mo phone next is doing fine
right next to me.
As long signal gets through the Gemini chipset, sending and receiving SMS/MMS
messages has been fine.
The only other shortcoming has been the lack of support by any added T-Mobile
features... Their support for calls/texts over wifi (using your cell #)
doesn't work. The scam call blocking/caller ID doesn't work.
On their website, T-Mo claims they provided devevlopent information for phone
devs to support their services. But at this rate, will we ever see that level
of activity from Planet?
Good luck,
PJS
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A cautious warning of sorts that is welcomed.
Thank you for relating and sharing.
Ifanafi
------------
Hi,
I'm in the DC area and on T-Mobile and have been seeing the exact same
issues I saw with my old LG F3Q phone (I got from T-Mobile!). T-Mobile has
been switching away from the frequencies that phone and Gemini support. This
reflected in the only 60% support listed on FrequencyCheck:
https://www.frequencycheck.com/compatibilit...e/united-states (https://www.frequencycheck.com/compatibility/EaDXIlv/planet-computers-gemini-pda-lte/united-states)
As a result, when the Gem gets a good compatible signal, most everything is
great - solid 4G and 4G LTE. But there are tons of times when any modern phone
will get 4G and the Gem only sees 3G or little/no signal at all. That means
dropped calls and spotty data when a coworker's T-Mo phone next is doing fine
right next to me.
As long signal gets through the Gemini chipset, sending and receiving SMS/MMS
messages has been fine.
The only other shortcoming has been the lack of support by any added T-Mobile
features... Their support for calls/texts over wifi (using your cell #)
doesn't work. The scam call blocking/caller ID doesn't work.
On their website, T-Mo claims they provided devevlopent information for phone
devs to support their services. But at this rate, will we ever see that level
of activity from Planet?
Good luck,
PJS
-
MikeC
Please repost / email your 'me too' Verizon issues directly to Planet's support AND CC: robin @ planetcom.co.uk because this Verizon predicament is unacceptable given Planet's assertions that the Gemini would work on the Verizon network.
Thanks you.
In the meantime, I am investigating other cell carriers replies herein have mentioned.
------------------
+1 on the Verizon Wireless problems. Can only receive calls, cannot make them. Can only send texts, cannot receive them. This happens whether I use Android or
Sailfish. I spent significant time discussing the Gemini issues with the second level of tech support @ Verizon Wireless. They told me the Gemini will not work on their network unless/until the manufacturer (Planet Computers LTD) contacts them and works out the details.
I had planned on using the Gemini as a replacement for my Nexus 5x, as well as a very portable linux device to replace my long in the tooth IBM thinkpad (yup, not Lenovo) which I had been using with linux to travel to and manage some industrial equipment. The Gemini does the latter OK, but at least for me, it's not a replacement for a phone.
I should have bought the wifi-only model. I should have bought it through the indiegogo campaign, rather than direct from Planet Computers. Oh yeah -- also I haven't received the leather pouch I ordered with the device back in May. Sigh. Chalk it up to experience, live and learn, etc.
Done.
-
Sorry guys, I cannot add any recent experience, but...
my first U.S. compatible smartphone was an Ericsson R380 World. Whilst staying 3 months in Texas I decided to buy a local SIM card. Those at Verizon did not even know what a SIM card was: they only sold phones. The one at T-Mobile (the brand I used at home) grudgingly sorted out a SIM "You're sure ? You can get a phone with it as well ?"
Anyway., from what I remember the entire business model of Verizon is that you should use their phone.
And that phone is entirely filled with stuff that protects it from being used in any other way than they want you to.
Apparently that hasn't changed. Well, I am afraid that Planet PDA cannot change that.
Also, T-Mobile (Deutsche Telekom) originally comes from Europe, so from it's day one it followed the (European) GSM standards without much tampering.
Was there any fair chance that the Gemini would work on Verizon ?
-
Sorry guys, I cannot add any recent experience, but...
my first U.S. compatible smartphone was an Ericsson R380 World. Whilst staying 3 months in Texas I decided to buy a local SIM card. Those at Verizon did not even know what a SIM card was: they only sold phones. The one at T-Mobile (the brand I used at home) grudgingly sorted out a SIM "You're sure ? You can get a phone with it as well ?"
Anyway., from what I remember the entire business model of Verizon is that you should use their phone.
And that phone is entirely filled with stuff that protects it from being used in any other way than they want you to.
Apparently that hasn't changed. Well, I am afraid that Planet PDA cannot change that.
Also, T-Mobile (Deutsche Telekom) originally comes from Europe, so from it's day one it followed the (European) GSM standards without much tampering.
Was there any fair chance that the Gemini would work on Verizon ?
The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
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The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
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@gymbo
I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.
In the US there are 4 primary carriers, some are more open or less open to
devices they didn't sell. Verizon has historically been one of the least
open because they have been the biggest for a long time.
T-Mobile and AT&T have long been GSM carriers, so that should help.
T-Mobile used to be the smallest carrier in the US, so they also welcomed
people with devices from other networks. As such, SIMs usually aren't a
problem with the US version of T-Mobile. I just pulled my SIM from my old
phone and stuck it in the Gem.
The problem I've seen with many devices in the US is frequencies.... With my
Nokia 9290, Nokia 9500 and with my LG F3Q, the problem was similar. They all
supported frequencies that worked fine in Europe, but less so here.
That seems like it might be proving to be the case with the Gemini here.
....at least as it stands with T-Mobile. I was getting pretty solid service,
but in the last week it has gotten *noticably* worse. WTF!?
@jakfish - Things still holding up for you on T-Mobile?
But I also know, T-Mo is rolling out on newer frequencies that the Gem doesn't
seem to support. Doomed? :/
PJS
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The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
--------------------
FYI
Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.
Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13
Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41
Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.
* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.
The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.
By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.
Ifanafi
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Here's a helpful link re: CDMA, GSM.
https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp (https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp)
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The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
--------------------
FYI
Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.
Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13
Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41
Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.
* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.
The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.
By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.
Ifanafi
Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.
It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.
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Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers.
I still don't understand from that perspective, when every other network seems to cope perfectly well without that restriction.
The more likely perspective is that they can wring more money out of people if they keep control of who can use their network. Wouldn't work with me though, I would just avoid them.
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The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
--------------------
FYI
Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.
Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13
Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41
Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.
* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.
The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.
By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.
Ifanafi
Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.
It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.
-----------------------------
USA cell carriers require phone manufacturers to submit their devices to an expensive ($100k+) several month review process for certification.
Planet has said they cannot $afford that necessity. And that is why the Gemini is not certified and has compatibility issues with the likes of Verizon.
-
The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
--------------------
FYI
Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.
Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13
Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41
Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.
* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.
The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.
By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.
Ifanafi
Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.
It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.
-----------------------------
USA cell carriers require phone manufacturers to submit their devices to an expensive ($100k+) several month review process for certification.
Planet has said they cannot $afford that necessity. And that is why the Gemini is not certified and has compatibility issues with the likes of Verizon.
Could you point me to a link or two that describes this process? Thanks.
-
The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
--------------------
FYI
Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.
Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13
Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41
Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.
* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.
The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.
By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.
Ifanafi
Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.
It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.
-----------------------------
USA cell carriers require phone manufacturers to submit their devices to an expensive ($100k+) several month review process for certification.
Planet has said they cannot $afford that necessity. And that is why the Gemini is not certified and has compatibility issues with the likes of Verizon.
Could you point me to a link or two that describes this process? Thanks.
------------------------------
By the way, Planet mentioned and Google searches confirmed that the smartphone certification process typically costs $15-$50 and up to 100K+ (testing and fees) and, therefore, Planet was not / is not still (if ever) able to afford the full gambit of tests. I think there is a post by Planet about that herein.
Anyway. There are several Telecommunication Certification Bodies (TCBs) and other FCC, GCF and other certification "labs" that review / approve new, smart phones (at the presale stage) for certification in the US, Europe and worldwide.
http://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/gcf-proce...frame-and-labs/ (http://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/gcf-process-costs-timeframe-and-labs/)
http://www.metlabs.com/services/wireless-a...-certification/ (http://www.metlabs.com/services/wireless-and-rf-testing/fcc-compliance-testing-certification/)
http://metlabs.com/services/wireless-and-r.../smart-devices/ (http://metlabs.com/services/wireless-and-rf-testing/smart-devices/)
https://www.icsalabs.com/ (https://www.icsalabs.com/)
https://f2labs.com/ (https://f2labs.com/)
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014...ids-open-source (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/23/how-google-controls-androids-open-source)
Some cell carriers like Verizon do their own testing: https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/27/11126390...e-test-lab-tour (https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/27/11126390/verizon-device-test-lab-tour)
Ifanafi
-
AT&T
I put my SIM card into my Gemini, powered it on and it simply worked.
Keep in mind that Planet is a European company selling a Eurpean GSM phone. Most Europeans have absolutely no clue what the USA's CDMA phone networks thing is all about. Every network in Europe is GSM. From a European perspective, everything is GSM and phones can move from carrier to carrier with a simple card exchange. Planet's PR people quite possibly had no idea that CDMA existed.
Trying to use a European GSM phone on a US CDMA carrier doesn't work any better than trying to take a CDMA phone to a GSM network in Europe. Incompatible standards.
You could always switch carriers?
Verizon, Sprint and US Cellular are all CDMA. I had service with US Cellular once - they were fantastic. Left them because they were CDMA and I wanted more fun devices.
T-Mobile and AT&T are GSM. There are exceptions, but if you want the best general compatibility with European devices or networks, these are the US companies with the most similar phones & systems.
-
Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .
-
The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.
It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??
Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...
(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)
--------------------
FYI
Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.
Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13
Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41
Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.
* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.
The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.
By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.
Ifanafi
-----------------------
UPDATE: Defection
Given the known, confirmed and chronic issues the Verizon network has with the Gemini (4G, WiFi), this morning I ported 4 phones from Verizon to MetroPCS' (T-Mobile) Unlimited Plan. Currently that plan requires 4 lines to qualify for activation. Plans change often.
Anyway. Going forward my total monthly cost for all 4 lines is a stunningly low $100 (all inclusive of taxes, fees, surcharges and other BS charges). Such a deal!
By the way, that unlimited everything plan has a 35GB ceiling before one receives a warning message about possible throttling down of services.
Now my Gemini works well as a phone… at last!
Ifanafi
P.s. Planet support will surely welcome this as good news because I have been a prickly barb in their rumps over Verizon's dysfunctional-to-incompatible issues with the Gemini.
UPDATE: I disabled WiFi and now enjoy reliable downloads and Internet over cell data. The likelihood of our 4 lines reaching 35GB of data is unlikely.
Now I use WiFi only at home / office because of close proximity to my router. And infrequently when traveling AND ONLY with WiFi Privacy protection app (from Symantec Norton - an affordable, annual subscription required).
Onward we Gemini soldiers march!
-
@Ifanafi
I don't think FCC or UL/ETL/etc safety testing has much of anything to do with
the kinds of approvals a company like Verizon wants.
FCC testing is just to prove an radio emitting device complies with technical
transmission & non-interference standards. Places like UL, Metlabs (and
others) do testing for safety standards (that you don't get electrocuted,
etc.), AFAIK.
Carriers like Verizon want to put their proprietary s/w on phones using their
networks. In the specific case of Verizon, they're famous for their "super
cookie" insertition, etc.
From what I've seen with T-Mobile, they don't *require* their s/w be installed,
but unapproved devices are deprived from their "value added" services...
CallerID, Wifi calling, etc.
The fact that people here have connected their phones to almost all the US
networks in limited ways appears to me to reflect the networks will tolerate
the "unapproved" GSM Gemini's.
But the fact that connections are to varying degrees spotty (with the possible
exception of AT&T?) - reportedly more or less half the US frequencies seem to
be supported by the second-rate MediaTek chipset - appears to reflect a major
Gemini shortcoming for North American usage.
I wish a simple firmware reflash could improve the MediaTek performance. :/
Is Planet Computing OK with writing off a 340-500 million potential North
American customers as things are now? ...or do they have to be AT&T users?
Sure would be nice if Planet Computers would comment on all this.
Thanks,
PJS
-
...
But the fact that connections are to varying degrees spotty (with the possible
exception of AT&T?) - reportedly more or less half the US frequencies seem to
be supported by the second-rate MediaTek chipset - appears to reflect a major
Gemini shortcoming for North American usage.
I wish a simple firmware reflash could improve the MediaTek performance. :/
Is Planet Computing OK with writing off a 340-500 million potential North
American customers as things are now? ...or do they have to be AT&T users?
Sure would be nice if Planet Computers would comment on all this.
Thanks,
PJS
There is nothing wrong with the Mediatek chipset. It is primarily a GSM chipset for the European market. In the US, the mobile phone networks are divided into two types of systems. GSM and CDMA. If you're on a CDMA, your phone will generally not travel with you to a GSM network. Neither will a GSM phone typically travel with you to a CDMA network.
https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp (https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp)
I'm actually kind of shocked that the Gemini works on any CDMA networks at all.
-
Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .
After many many many calls to customer service, I have a SIM card in my Gemini with working data on the US Verizon network. The card had to be activated in a Verizon branded phone first, then moved to the Gemini. I had to manually set the Data Access Point Name to "vzwinternet" and the connection name to "Verizon". I would have thought the connection name was unimportant, but it seems to matter.
Problems I noted so far:
1. Data roaming had to be turned on for data to work when using many Verizon cell towers even though the MMC = 311 and MNC =480 of the towers. These are Verizon native towers, but data would not work unless I had roaming on.
2. There was a spot or two while drive 100+ miles where I lost coverage due to a tower using band 13 (as indicated by a Verizon branded phone). Band 13 is not supported by the Gemini.
3. With the CE edition of sailfish, I can not send or receive SMS messages. I can receive a phone call, but after the call completes, Sailfish complains that the SIM card is missing until I reboot the device. Sailfish can not originate calls (no service error) even though data is working.
I am also having trouble getting the Gemini/Sailfish to stop connecting to some rough network named "213423" with a corresponding MMC = 213 and MNC =423, which is strange because MMC = 213 is not for cell sites in the USA. When Gemini switches to this network, I need to turn airplane mode on and off again to get it to go back to Verizon.
When I have the stomach for Verizon tech support, I will call them about the roaming bug and the 213423 network, which seem to be a provisioning problem with my SIM/account.
-
Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .
After many many many calls to customer service, I have a SIM card in my Gemini with working data on the US Verizon network. The card had to be activated in a Verizon branded phone first, then moved to the Gemini. I had to manually set the Data Access Point Name to "vzwinternet" and the connection name to "Verizon". I would have thought the connection name was unimportant, but it seems to matter.
Problems I noted so far:
1. Data roaming had to be turned on for data to work when using many Verizon cell towers even though the MMC = 311 and MNC =480 of the towers. These are Verizon native towers, but data would not work unless I had roaming on.
2. There was a spot or two while drive 100+ miles where I lost coverage due to a tower using band 13 (as indicated by a Verizon branded phone). Band 13 is not supported by the Gemini.
3. With the CE edition of sailfish, I can not send or receive SMS messages. I can receive a phone call, but after the call completes, Sailfish complains that the SIM card is missing until I reboot the device. Sailfish can not originate calls (no service error) even though data is working.
I am also having trouble getting the Gemini/Sailfish to stop connecting to some rough network named "213423" with a corresponding MMC = 213 and MNC =423, which is strange because MMC = 213 is not for cell sites in the USA. When Gemini switches to this network, I need to turn airplane mode on and off again to get it to go back to Verizon.
When I have the stomach for Verizon tech support, I will call them about the roaming bug and the 213423 network, which seem to be a provisioning problem with my SIM/account.
------------------------------
Two Saturdays ago I stood by and watched a competent Verizon tech (asst mngr) do all that you mentioned and yet she failed to make my Gemini fully functional and compatible with Verizon.
Invariably everything tried would not take permanently. And what seemed to take would be lost after the Gem was restarted.
A huge failing with the Gemini's incompatibility with Verizon is the inability to add APNs and save with permanence edits to any of the Gem's listed Verizon APNs. Tweaked APN info either did not reappear among the list of installed Verizon APNs; or when it did once save and appear, the device remained unacceptably less than 100% functional. Furthermore, I did not like changing the various settings to accommodate my situational usage needs such as you mention.
So, fook'em.
All that capped off and ended too many weeks of failed efforts to make my Gem work well, without any dysfunction like those you describe, and that I, too, experienced with the Verizon SIM. Enough already. The fact remains that the device is designed and optimized for European users and unfortunately flawed for USA users on CDMA nets like Verizon.
That situational predicament Planet placed smartphone users like me in is disconcerting given the size of the US market for a device like the Gemini, even if it mostly garners niche interest from techie / Linux users over smartphone users like me.
Realizing and accepting that disappointing situation necessitated my porting four phone lines away from Verizon and end the trial-and-error processes I slgged through since receiving my Gem June 5th.
BTW, my deep, comparative research into this CDMA incompatibility issue (which I speculate Planet DID NOT DO SO THOROUGHLY AS ME) and learned understanding of GSM-enabled US cell carriers led me to choose MetroPCS / T-Mobile-Sprint (I live in the US mid-Atlantic region). Only switching cell carrier made my Gemini a fully functional 4G WiFi device, at last (and now costs me just $100 monthly - a welcomed upside I see as resulting compensation for nearly two months of aggravation caused by owning a Gemini).
Cheers!
P.S. Although I have stated often that I look forward to Gemini 2.0 - I shall not back it if Planet fails to choose a better, USA-cell marketplace accommodating chip set AND program the Android AND Sailfish OSs to be both 100% compatible and fully functional OUT OF THE BOX as a 4G-5G WiFi smartphone device on all but the smallest of US cell nets.
Ifanafi
------------------------------
-
Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .
After many many many calls to customer service, I have a SIM card in my Gemini with working data on the US Verizon network. The card had to be activated in a Verizon branded phone first, then moved to the Gemini. I had to manually set the Data Access Point Name to "vzwinternet" and the connection name to "Verizon". I would have thought the connection name was unimportant, but it seems to matter.
Problems I noted so far:
1. Data roaming had to be turned on for data to work when using many Verizon cell towers even though the MMC = 311 and MNC =480 of the towers. These are Verizon native towers, but data would not work unless I had roaming on.
2. There was a spot or two while drive 100+ miles where I lost coverage due to a tower using band 13 (as indicated by a Verizon branded phone). Band 13 is not supported by the Gemini.
3. With the CE edition of sailfish, I can not send or receive SMS messages. I can receive a phone call, but after the call completes, Sailfish complains that the SIM card is missing until I reboot the device. Sailfish can not originate calls (no service error) even though data is working.
I am also having trouble getting the Gemini/Sailfish to stop connecting to some rough network named "213423" with a corresponding MMC = 213 and MNC =423, which is strange because MMC = 213 is not for cell sites in the USA. When Gemini switches to this network, I need to turn airplane mode on and off again to get it to go back to Verizon.
When I have the stomach for Verizon tech support, I will call them about the roaming bug and the 213423 network, which seem to be a provisioning problem with my SIM/account.
------------------------------
Two Saturdays ago I stood by and watched a competent Verizon tech (asst mngr) do all that you mentioned and yet she failed to make my Gemini fully functional and compatible with Verizon.
Invariably everything tried would not take permanently. And what seemed to take would be lost after the Gem was restarted.
A huge failing with the Gemini's incompatibility with Verizon is the inability to add APNs and save with permanence edits to any of the Gem's listed Verizon APNs. Tweaked APN info either did not reappear among the list of installed Verizon APNs; or when it did once save and appear, the device remained unacceptably less than 100% functional. Furthermore, I did not like changing the various settings to accommodate my situational usage needs such as you mention.
So, fook'em.
All that capped off and ended too many weeks of failed efforts to make my Gem work well, without any dysfunction like those you describe, and that I, too, experienced with the Verizon SIM. Enough already. The fact remains that the device is designed and optimized for European users and unfortunately flawed for USA users on CDMA nets like Verizon.
That situational predicament Planet placed smartphone users like me in is disconcerting given the size of the US market for a device like the Gemini, even if it mostly garners niche interest from techie / Linux users over smartphone users like me.
Realizing and accepting that disappointing situation necessitated my porting four phone lines away from Verizon and end the trial-and-error processes I slgged through since receiving my Gem June 5th.
BTW, my deep, comparative research into this CDMA incompatibility issue (which I speculate Planet DID NOT DO SO THOROUGHLY AS ME) and learned understanding of GSM-enabled US cell carriers led me to choose MetroPCS / T-Mobile-Sprint (I live in the US mid-Atlantic region). Only switching cell carrier made my Gemini a fully functional 4G WiFi device, at last (and now costs me just $100 monthly - a welcomed upside I see as resulting compensation for nearly two months of aggravation caused by owning a Gemini).
Cheers!
P.S. Although I have stated often that I look forward to Gemini 2.0 - I shall not back it if Planet fails to choose a better, USA-cell marketplace accommodating chip set AND program the Android AND Sailfish OSs to be both 100% compatible and fully functional OUT OF THE BOX as a 4G-5G WiFi smartphone device on all but the smallest of US cell nets.
Ifanafi
------------------------------
I started out trying AT&T. That was even worse than Verizon out here in the Western Slope of Colorado. AT&T has a single 4G LTE tower in a two county area. All other towers are UMTS, in spite of the wonderful map their marking people have created that shows solid LTE coverage. Maybe I should bring this false advertising up with the US Commerce Department. Good luck to me on that. I think the broader problem is that US cellular providers suck. And a total failure of the US Government to require meaningful inter-operational regulations, portability, and standard compliance in exchange for the operators using our spectrum. While I would love to use T-Mobile, I live in a T-Mobile coverage hole. I had a really good experience with T-Mobile years ago, before they kicked me off there network for living in a roaming area. I don't blame them. It's was me who deceived them to get the service in the first place. Oh how I wish T-Mobile had service here.
As I mentioned previously, the Verizon problem appears to be provisioning, not the Gemini hardware, except for the lack of band 13/700MHz.
Regarding US band difficulty on the Gemini, and to Planet Computers' defense:
Every modern cellular modem has a baseband section, and an RF section, often in the same IC The baseband section is the same for all radio bands of operation since the underlying modulation is the same regardless of what radio band is being used. The RF section, with it's programmable I/Q modulator/demodulators can usually be tuned over most of the radio spectrum between 500 MHz and 6 GHz on the same IC. The front end Low Noise Amplifiers and RF driver amplifiers are also typically broadband as well. The trouble is with the interface between the amplifiers and the antenna:
1. A switchable RF filter is required for EACH band of operation,s both to clean up the transmitted signal before it hits the air, and to isolate the transmit and receive signal paths, which operate simultaneously, on different frequencies through a common antenna. (unlike WiFi where transmit and receive take turns on the same frequency). So even if the RF section can cover the entire spectrum of 500 MHz to 6 GHz, you still need to put a filter on the circuit board for EACH band. That ends up using a lot of space in the PCB.
2. The antenna inside the Gemini is small. It is very difficult to design an antenna of that size that is both efficient, and can cover a large number of RF bands. I have yet to see an OEM antenna from any manufacturer that covers ALL the bands in the USA with any respectable performance specifications. Especially with the addition of the old UHF TV 700 MHz band, which with it's lower frequency as compared to the other bands, makes the antenna larger. When the USA thinks it's special and it's going to go do thing's it's own way, this is what you get.
Take a look at the IoT radio modules from companies like Telit. There are always different modules for the US than for the rest of the world. They are pin compatible, but have different filters in the guts, and no antenna. They kick the antenna problem out to the user.
-
I just got off the phone with Verizon, again. The magic application form that was submitted (twice now I think) to get the Gemini approved for use on the Verizon Network here in the USA, came back as unapproved. So I'm back to a data only device (no phone, no SMS) on their network. And of course WiFi works too. I find it mystifying that data works on Verizon even when the phone does not, but so it is. Maybe Verizon is not fully using LTE? Maybe LTE for data and 3G for voice? I **THINK** full spec LTE uses VoIP/SIP for voice. Maybe I can find some other more functional country that would have me.
-
@gymbo
I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.
Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.
You can't blame Planet for that.
Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.
-
I just got off the phone with Verizon, again. The magic application form that was submitted (twice now I think) to get the Gemini approved for use on the Verizon Network here in the USA, came back as unapproved. So I'm back to a data only device (no phone, no SMS) on their network. And of course WiFi works too. I find it mystifying that data works on Verizon even when the phone does not, but so it is. Maybe Verizon is not fully using LTE? Maybe LTE for data and 3G for voice? I **THINK** full spec LTE uses VoIP/SIP for voice. Maybe I can find some other more functional country that would have me.
--------------------
Verizon's review and approval process requires more than an application or two.
Rather, Verizon requires stringent testing of phones seeking access to their network AND sales outlets.
Testing is done at their NJ testing facility (Verizon's old HQ facility) wherein each device endures crash-test dummy like tests.
The device's manufacturer must pay many thousands of dollars in fees for testing.
I doubt seriously Planet paid Verizon for their testing.
Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. IMHO, Planet did not know fully the precise specifics of Verizon's network APNs.
There is no valid reason / excuse for the Gemini's Verizon APNs to lack critical numbers: 13 and certain specific frequencies.
-
@gymbo
I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.
Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.
You can't blame Planet for that.
Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.
--------------------
Illogical.
Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.
Fully functional compatibility necessitates that, at the very least, a phone device's APNs are exactly those of Verizon's USA network.
The Gemini does not have them all.
Verizon's EU? network probably and necessarily has slightly different configurations than their USA network.
Planet, I believe, probably assumed (incorrectly) that configuring the Gemini with same EU settings would therefore work in the USA.
Reality has proven Planet was mistaken (even if their mistake was not intentionally deceptive but rather a gamble they lost).
Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. I appreciate you coming to Planet's defense. However, your defense is illogical and patently wrong.
I have been deep down the Verizon Gemini incompatibility rabbit hole and the evidence is clear (and presented in more detail elsewhere herein) that the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon US network. This backer and others relied on Planet's statements of Verizon compatibility which proved wrong (and, I believe, deduced by extrapolation from their very limited, short-term use of a Gemini in (Boston?) USA. RE: GSM vs CDMA, et al.
P.P.S. After six weeks of back-and-forth go-around over this with Planet Support, and in the face of missing certain bands and frequencies info that caused my Verizon SIM Gemini many dysfunctions, Planet eventually, reluctantly admitted the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon network, and said "sorry" to me (via email).
By then I decided to switch carrier and dropped Verizon so I can use my Gemini.
-
@gymbo
I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.
Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.
You can't blame Planet for that.
Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.
--------------------
Illogical.
Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.
Fully functional compatibility necessitates that, at the very least, a phone device's APNs are exactly those of Verizon's USA network.
The Gemini does not have them all.
Verizon's EU? network probably and necessarily has slightly different configurations than their USA network.
Planet, I believe, probably assumed (incorrectly) that configuring the Gemini with same EU settings would therefore work in the USA.
Reality has proven Planet was mistaken (even if their mistake was not intentionally deceptive but rather a gamble they lost).
Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. I appreciate you coming to Planet's defense. However, your defense is illogical and patently wrong.
I have been deep down the Verizon Gemini incompatibility rabbit hole and the evidence is clear (and presented in more detail elsewhere herein) that the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon US network. This backer and others relied on Planet's statements of Verizon compatibility which proved wrong (and, I believe, deduced by extrapolation from their very limited, short-term use of a Gemini in (Boston?) USA. RE: GSM vs CDMA, et al.
P.P.S. After six weeks of back-and-forth go-around over this with Planet Support, and in the face of missing certain bands and frequencies info that caused my Verizon SIM Gemini many dysfunctions, Planet eventually, reluctantly admitted the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon network, and said "sorry" to me (via email).
By then I decided to switch carrier and dropped Verizon so I can use my Gemini.
By this
Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.
YOU also admit that they ARE stopping devices based on what device it is, and not necessary because they are incompatible as such...
Which was my point...
If a device can function on a network/carrier, although not on ALL their frequencies, why not let it? Yes, give the user some kind of warning that the service may be unstable and unavailable in areas where it doesn't support the right frequencies/bands.
And I would be surprised if there are not quite a few devices that ARE certified for Verizon that doesn't support ALL their frequencies/bands too... (I might very well be wrong, as it is based on solely on my rather limited understanding of the matter... But frequencies/bands seems to change quite often, and there has been 4G phones out there for a while, so it seems unlikely that there are not, at least older phones, that does not support all frequencies/bands that have been approved. And it would seem rather odd if they would then get revoked??)
-
I'm actually kind of shocked that the Gemini works on any CDMA networks at all.
That is because LTE is not CDMA. With 4G/LTE, everyone in the USA is finally agreeing on an over-the-air interface. Now if we could just get all the carriers to stop using UMTS, EVDO and CDMA in the older bands, and get them to switch there voice networks over LTE too, then the Gemini would work in many more locations. If you loose your data service during a voice call, your phone is switching it's radio to a 2G or 3G service for the voice call. This little cheat allowed carriers to add LTE data service without the cost of upgrading there voice networks.
-
@gymbo
I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.
Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.
You can't blame Planet for that.
Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.
--------------------
Illogical.
Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.
Fully functional compatibility necessitates that, at the very least, a phone device's APNs are exactly those of Verizon's USA network.
The Gemini does not have them all.
Verizon's EU? network probably and necessarily has slightly different configurations than their USA network.
Planet, I believe, probably assumed (incorrectly) that configuring the Gemini with same EU settings would therefore work in the USA.
Reality has proven Planet was mistaken (even if their mistake was not intentionally deceptive but rather a gamble they lost).
Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. I appreciate you coming to Planet's defense. However, your defense is illogical and patently wrong.
I have been deep down the Verizon Gemini incompatibility rabbit hole and the evidence is clear (and presented in more detail elsewhere herein) that the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon US network. This backer and others relied on Planet's statements of Verizon compatibility which proved wrong (and, I believe, deduced by extrapolation from their very limited, short-term use of a Gemini in (Boston?) USA. RE: GSM vs CDMA, et al.
P.P.S. After six weeks of back-and-forth go-around over this with Planet Support, and in the face of missing certain bands and frequencies info that caused my Verizon SIM Gemini many dysfunctions, Planet eventually, reluctantly admitted the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon network, and said "sorry" to me (via email).
By then I decided to switch carrier and dropped Verizon so I can use my Gemini.
By this
Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.
YOU also admit that they ARE stopping devices based on what device it is, and not necessary because they are incompatible as such...
Which was my point...
If a device can function on a network/carrier, although not on ALL their frequencies, why not let it? Yes, give the user some kind of warning that the service may be unstable and unavailable in areas where it doesn't support the right frequencies/bands.
And I would be surprised if there are not quite a few devices that ARE certified for Verizon that doesn't support ALL their frequencies/bands too... (I might very well be wrong, as it is based on solely on my rather limited understanding of the matter... But frequencies/bands seems to change quite often, and there has been 4G phones out there for a while, so it seems unlikely that there are not, at least older phones, that does not support all frequencies/bands that have been approved. And it would seem rather odd if they would then get revoked??)
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Reasonable speculation that doesn't jive with reality and the planned obsolescence of cell phones.
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I have a T-Mobile USA SIM in my Gemini. Here's my experience:
I already have a smartphone on a T-Mobile One (postpaid) plan. I was able to add a data/SMS (no voice) SIM for my Gemini for US$20/month after rebates and credits.
(1) Google Android: All functions (voice/SMS/cellular data) work "out of the box" with rooted Google Android. The SIM is recognized as T-Mobile 4G.
VoLTE calling and SMS sending and receiving over LTE work from the Gemini (Google Android) works over cellular data using the "T-Mobile Digits" app from Google Play Store and the phone number of my non-Gemini T-Mobile SIM. VOIP calls from the Gemini Google Android work with a separate SIP account and an Android SIP client.
(2) Sailfish: SMS sending and receiving and cellular data work in Salifish. I don't know of a VOIP app for Sailfish, and don't have voice service on the SIM in my Gemini, so I haven't tested voice calling in Sailfish.
(3) Debian: Neither voice calling nor cellular data work in Debian on the Gemini. (WiFi does work, but only with a braodcast SSIS, not with a "hidden" SSID, and the settings don't "stick". I have to re-enter the wi-fi password each time I re-boot the gemeini into Debian.) There is a "wireless" tab in the "connman" GUI, but I can't get it to do anything.
Has anyone been able to get cellular data to work with Debian on a Gemini with a T-Mobile USA SIM?