OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => Cxx0 General discussions => Topic started by: TonyOlsen on April 23, 2004, 10:45:55 am
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Has anyone tried to run Bochs (Intel x86 IBM PC emulator) on a VGA Zaurus? Did it work?
If it did, how did you set it up? I read the directions and it\'s a bit greek to me. Can anyone help?
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(wind blowing.... tumbleweed rolling...)
Sorry Tony, we\'re out of luck, surely one of those seasoned \'porters\' wants to try, come on...
I think I could do it, I would need SDL dev libs and a good dose of patience. Someone must have a full cross-dev setup to try?
Could someone give dosbox a go?
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(wind blowing.... tumbleweed rolling...)
Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! LOL!
Ahm\' the sheriff of this here\' ghost town.
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We\'re on a roll tonight ;-)
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Wow Tony, you sure love your polls
I would like to try it but I haven\'t had the time. I think it\'d be amusing to try Windows 98
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Yes, I LOVE the polls! I think it\'s cool how they can offer perspective in the discussion. For example, here, it appears that noone has ever gotten Bochs working on their Zaurus. ...AND, which is very surprising, over half of the people out there don\'t really care about having an x86 emulator on their Zaurus. I guess they don\'t see any value in being able to run applications where the source code isn\'t available.
Maybe someday...
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Considering the speed difference between bochs and qemu it seems fairly safe to say that bochs is quickly approaching obsolescence.
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qemu? I\'ve never heard of it... but you\'ve gotten my attention! tell me more!!
I assume qemu is another x86 emulator. Is there a port for the Zaurus? Is it fully graphics compatible? Can it run Win98SE? Can it run in VGA (640x480) mode?
Cool! Thanks!
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See this (http://zaurususergroup.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3693) thread. Full PC emulation is not yet supported for the Z. It may or may not happen in a couple of months. If it does it will be much more usable than bochs.
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I didn\'t get a link in the last post...
oh.. so it won\'t run Windows98 and graphical games?
Is there any x86 emulator for Zaurus that works all the way?
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I didn\'t get a link in the last post...
oh.. so it won\'t run Windows98 and graphical games? :(
Is there any x86 emulator for Zaurus that works all the way?
qemu currently only runs \"user mode\" applications; that is, i386 linux binaries. It should be enough to run WINE presumably, and some windows applications under there; but I fear it may be unbearably slow. Graphics heavy games will most likely not be playable through that route.
With some (significant?) extra arm support, qemu may be able to run in system mode on the Z, meaning you\'d have a fully emulated i386 machine. Probably quite slow, but maybe useable.
Bochs has apparently been built and run on 5500s, so it should work
on C7xx Zaurii, but users report that its extremely (barely useable) slow for that.
Fortunately, http://dosbox.sourceforge.net (http://dosbox.sourceforge.net) works, if your major interest is DOS games (Or Windows 3.1)
Lord Davon has built the latest stable and CVS in http://zaurus.spy.org/feeds/davonz/ (http://zaurus.spy.org/feeds/davonz/)
you\'ll need pdaxrom and a few extra libraries.
DOS games run at approximately a fast 286 to slow 386 speed;
if the games are old enough, that should be fine. Qemu is reputed to be more efficient, but isn\'t all there yet, for most purposes.
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I can\'t seem to find the Zaurus IPK for DOSBox. Do you have a link, or do you have the IPK you could post here?
Thanks in advance!
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I\'m also looking for the Qemu Zaurus IPK... both of the applications I want to run (WarCraft II and an old Ascii-based reader program) are old enough that they will probably work. I looked at DosBox and it says it actually works with WarCraft2 (It\'s cool that they acutally have a list of applications and how well they run. ).
Does anyone have the URL for the Qeme Zaurus IPK?
thanks!
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there are a couple of tarballs with Dosbox in the zaurus.spy.org feeds I mentioned. You don\'t need to install as an ipk.
Keep in mind that you will probably not get performance better than
286 / slow 386 on a Zaurus, with Dosbox. Qemu may do better - when/if it can run full machine emulation.
Zazz has put a tarball of his qemu build on http://zaurus.zapto.org/zazz/qemu/ (http://zaurus.zapto.org/zazz/qemu/)
and read the README
nobody has yet made an ipk, as qemu is barely stable enough this far in.
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I looked at DosBox and it says it actually works with WarCraft2 (It\'s cool that they acutally have a list of applications and how well they run. ).
Keep in mind that the applications list is based on apps tested against an i386 dosbox system, so things will likely run much slower on the Z. Mouse support on the Z is sketchy - mouse heavy games are pretty frustrating, IMO [there may be a fix for this; I don\'t think it should be too difficult]
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DosBox
Yeah, I saw those tarballs. I downloaded all 3, but they weren\'t IPK and I didn\'t know what to do with them... and I also didn\'t know if I was only supposed to use the \"xscale\" one or all 3... I tried executing the 3 files in terminal, but that didn\'t work.
Qemu
Thanks for the link. I downloaded the file and will try to install it. ...but the tarball didn\'t contain any IPK files. I\'m going through the Readme file and will try to get it working from the Terminal. I\'ll post my results.
I\'m going to try to get both of them working... and whichever one works first wins.
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Is there an SDL or Qtopia version of Dosbox?
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On another note, why is \"DOS games\" the only thing that matters? With a decent emulator, and a copy of the HP200LX rom, you could all relive your glory days!
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I\'m also looking for the Qemu Zaurus IPK... both of the applications I want to run (WarCraft II and an old Ascii-based reader program)
I think you can forget about warcraft 2 on a Zaurus.
Hell, it\'s good but not that good
I struggles to run scramble and donkey kong using the mame emulator .
Warcraft 2 could be possible, but you would need to obtain the source and expect to re-write most of the code to be \"zaurus friendly\".
If you want to emulate it then expect to get a frame every hour, if it runs at all.
You may have better luck with an Atari st or Amiga emulator running something like populous, which was the forerunner to the other 3d games like warcraft and command and conquer.
What does your ascii based reader program read? there may already be a custom zaurus app to suit your requirements.
Peter
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Try as I may, the qemu-i386 (378 KB) does not work on the Zaurus. When I go into the directory where this is located, I type
qemu-i386
and I get:
bash: qemu-i386: command not found
I also tried the free-dos images
qemu-i386 c.img
(c.img is in the same directory)
..but resulted in the same \"command not found\" result.
I suspect this file wasn\'t compiled for the Zaurus but for another platform. The \"i386\" in the name, to me, says that it is a 386 emulator (since qemu can be used to emulate many platforms and not just 386\'s.)
Any thoughts?
Has anyone actually gotten DosBox or Qemu working on their Zaurus? :?
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The DOS reader if for obsolete Folio/Infobase NFO ebook files (incompatible with the new NFO readers from Folio)... It is 100% ASCII based. I\'m sure an x86 emulator can run it.
I used to run just it fine on my 200LX (8 MHz), so I\'m sure it will be much faster on my 386 emulator on my 400 MHz Zaurus! Qemu says that it is about 1/4th or 1/10th the speed of the actual machine, which means it will run like a 40 MHz 386 or 100 MHz 386. That\'s slow... but not that bad!
DosBox lists WarCraft II as \"playable\", but not \"fully supported\"... which means that most stuff works but something may not. ...I used to play WarCraft II on an old 386 and it was a little slow, but it worked... and it was fun!
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Oh... WarCraft II isn\'t 3d... it\'s 2d. WarCraft III is 3d, but I\'m not interested in that one...
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Anyone want to try recompiling FreeCraft (now known as Stratagus) for the Zaurus?
http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/wargus/ (http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/wargus/)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/stratagus/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/stratagus/)
http://www.happypenguin.org/show?FreeCraft (http://www.happypenguin.org/show?FreeCraft)
http://www.bebits.com/app/2994 (http://www.bebits.com/app/2994)
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/games/freecraft (http://packages.debian.org/unstable/games/freecraft) <-- Already compiled for ARM?
http://stratagus.sourceforge.net/screenshots.shtml (http://stratagus.sourceforge.net/screenshots.shtml)
etc..
Also:
http://sourceforge.net/search/ (http://sourceforge.net/search/) (search for \"stratagus\")
This is the open-source version of \"War Craft II\". Anyone else drooling over the idea of having War Craft II (rated the best computer games for a number of years) on their Zaurus?
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I want to run Elite (anyone else here in the UK remember that on the BBC A/B?) via DOS (CGA).
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I moved the WarCraft 2 thread to its own thread:
http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...iewtopic&t=3883 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3883)
Please post future WarCraft comments to that thread instead of this one...
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I found a SDL version of Bochs for zaurus here
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~tzer-jen/zbochs/ (http://www.its.caltech.edu/~tzer-jen/zbochs/)
it looks good but there is just the souce code,will anyone try it?
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Try as I may, the qemu-i386 (378 KB) does not work on the Zaurus. When I go into the directory where this is located, I type
qemu-i386
and I get:
bash: qemu-i386: command not found
Linux is NOT DOS. Unlike DOS, Linux doesn\'t let you run commands just anywhere by default, if you want to run a fiel that is not in your PATH then you need to append a ./ to the filename to run it.
So you should be using
./qemu-i386
Stu
P.S. If you really want to run commands from your current PWD then add . to your PATH
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The http://zaurus.zapto.org/zazz/qemu/ (http://zaurus.zapto.org/zazz/qemu/) link I was given contains 3 files. 2 tarballs and 1 readme.
One tarball ( qemu-0.5.3-armhost-i386user.tar.gz ) isn\'t recognized by my Windows WinZip program. WinZip says that file is empty or corrupt.
The other file ( qemu-i386-static.gz ) DOES contain something, but WinZip asks me for the extension. I assume it has no extension, and so it creates a 994 KB qemu-i386-static file. This is the file I\'ve been trying to get working.
I placed qemu-i386-static, and 3 of the 4 \"FreeDos\" images, on my CF card and put it in the Zaurus. I open terminal and type:
bash-2.05$ cd /mnt/cf
bash-2.05$ ./qemu-i386-static a.img
Error loading a.img
I can display the Qemu help and it has options for Path, Size, Help, ActivateLog, PageSize, and it says it needs a \"program\"... but nothing regarding a boot image. I\'m thinking I misunderstood the function Qemu. I\'m now thinking it is only for running individual Linux i386 commands and in fact can\'t do anything \"DOS\" at all...
Please let me know if I\'m wrong here..
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Keep in mind that you will probably not get performance better than
286 / slow 386 on a Zaurus, with Dosbox. Qemu may do better - when/if it can run full machine emulation.
if performane like xt still okay for me.
im just to want using back my hplx pim post/lx function only. :wink:
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The http://zaurus.zapto.org/zazz/qemu/ (http://zaurus.zapto.org/zazz/qemu/)
I\'m thinking I misunderstood the function Qemu. I\'m now thinking it is only for running individual Linux i386 commands and in fact can\'t do anything \"DOS\" at all...
Please let me know if I\'m wrong here..
Unfortunately, it looks like you\'re right here.
Qemu can operate in two modes:
* System emulation
* User emulation
User emulation allows it to run Linux binaries compiled for the target architecture- in this case, i386 linux binaries that normally wouldnt run
on your ARM linux.
System emulation is a bit trickier, and actually simulates an entire target computer- allowing you to run a full Operating System or whatever you like. System emulation is not available for the ARM port of Qemu just yet; looks like it may require considerable extra code (maybe not so much work, but it\'s beyond me) There are hints that System Emulation is being ported to ARM, but it\'s not here just yet.
Dosbox and Bochs support full system emulation on ARM already, though.
So, Qemu will not, today, run any DOS software. Bochs may, if you\'re lucky. Dosbox surely will.
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Ok... so I\'ll take Qemu off my radar... for now. I\'ll instead focus on DosBox...
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Well, I an now answer \"Yes\". I have an older console version of Bochs up & running fairly peppily on a C860 with standard Sharp v1.31 ROM.
There are still some irregularities with the display and it is not in color but I have been able to run a number of older PC/XT DOS apps (no, not CPACK, yet - sorry).
At work & very hectic right now but will make a fuller report soon.
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Wow! I await your findings with great anxiety! Thanks!
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OK. As promised -
Before I describe how I have Bochs running DOS on my C860, you need to be aware of a major, but easily avoidable, hazard.
Bochs is not aware of the event if DOS crashes or terminates. So you do not return to Bochs itself where you could exit gracefully to the bash prompt. Even if you close the terminal, each Bochs session will still be running and using resources blind in the background. PS does not show these sessions. You need to use \"PS x\" to see their pids.
When I first started working with Bochs, I had several running copies go orphaned in background and the performnce of my C860 began to dramatically drop. I had just opened WhatsUpOnZ to check for & kill any such processes, when my memory bar in the applet tray went abruptly to bright red (the first & only time that I have seen it do so), and my C860 immediately locked up entirely. No responce to ANY keys or stylus.
After pulling the battery several times & a long wait on the final pull, the system booted normally and seemed to be running OK, For all of about 30 seconds, at which point it hard locked again. Each time that I could coax it to reboot, the system would run for some varriable but relatively short period of time and then freeze.
It appears that the sudden low memory condition, caused by multiple rogue copies of Bochs (perhaps 2 or 3 at most), corrupted some system file(s) needed at some point shortly after bootup. I didn\'t have the luxury time to try to figure out exactly which files were bunged but I had done an NAND backup not long before the crash. So I restored from NAND. And proceeded again with a LOT more caution.
Do NOT allow background sessions of Bochs to build up! After each DOS crash or termination, open another terminal and run \"ps x\" to get the pid of the Bochs process. Then \"kill -kill (pid)\" to terminate the session! This is essential. Otherwise you may have a semi-brick! And it wouldn\'t hurt to do an NAND back up frequently when working with the program.
OK - you have been warned.
This has been tested on C860s with standard Sharp ROM v1.20 & 1.31 with no obvious differences.
First link to:
http://www.ece.uah.edu/~wes/ (http://www.ece.uah.edu/~wes/)
and download Bochs 1.4.1 from:
http://www.ece.uah.edu/~wes/bochs_1.4.1_arm.ipk (http://www.ece.uah.edu/~wes/bochs_1.4.1_arm.ipk)
Note that the author says:
\" I have misplaced my zaurus and I will not be maintaining the software on this page.\"
\"Bochs x86 emulator. Compiled to use the console, but there\'s an X option which I didn\'t use because i\'m not running X on my zaurus at the moment. I tested it with freedos, and input was extremely slow. Also, I had to reduce the amount of memory in the bochs settings to keep it from running out of memory and crashing. Still, I think it\'s really cool that it works at all. There are some demo packages for it here.\"
(\"here\" is http://bochs.sourceforge.net/diskimages.html) (http://bochs.sourceforge.net/diskimages.html))
The IPK is a TAR-GZ type and installed without problems on my C860s. It includeds the two depends lib files. Before you can run Bochs, you need an image of a bootable disk or diskette for the OS you intend to run.
The only DOS at the link to images on Sourceforge is a FreeDOS version which runs VERY slowly under Bochs and crashes frequently for no obvious reason. This was what i was working with when I locked up my C860. I was sufficiently frustrated such that I decided to try making a boot image of PC DOS v7 instead.
Several programs that claimed to write and access these raw sector IMG files produced ones that Bochs could not use. I was finally able to make a Bochs acceptable 1.44Mb FDD IMG using RawWrite for windows version 0.5 by John Newbigin, that I found on a Red Hat distro CD in my stash.
I made a PC DOS v7 bootable 1.44Mb floppy img & a blank 1.44Mb \"B:\" img using RawWriteW then made a 4Mb \"C:\" img and a 10Mb \"D:\" img using the \"bxutility\" program included with Bochs. The \"bxutility\" program is simple to use and well documented.
Make sure that your bootable floppy has FDISK, SYS, FORMAT, XCOPY and so forth before you img it.
This is my file layout
/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/
/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/1.4.1 ...... files installed by Bochs
/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/bin ........ img files
/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/latest ..... sym linked by install to 1.4.1
My \"bochsrc\" config file is:
# configuration file generated by Bochs
romimage: file=/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/1.4.1/BIOS-bochs-latest, address=0xf0000
megs: 4
vgaromimage: /home/QtPalmtop/bochs/1.4.1/VGABIOS-elpin-2.40
floppya: 1_44=/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/bin/a.img, status=inserted
floppyb: 1_44=/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/bin/b.img, status=inserted
diskc: file=/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/bin/4MbC.img, cyl=121, heads=4, spt=17
diskd: file=/home/QtPalmtop/bochs/bin/10MbD.img, cyl=306, heads=4, spt=17
# no parport #1
# no sb16
boot: c
log: /home/zaurus/Documents/bochs/logs/bochs_out.txt
mouse: enabled=0
ips: 500000
vga_update_interval: 30000
keyboard_serial_delay: 20000
keyboard_paste_delay: 100000
floppy_command_delay: 50000
private_colormap: enabled=0
i440fxsupport: enabled=0
time0: 0
# no ne2k
newharddrivesupport: enabled=0
# no loader
panic: action=ask
error: action=report
info: action=report
debug: action=ignore
keyboard_mapping: enabled=0, map=
keyboard_type: mf
To start, change the \"boot c\" line to \"boot a\", boot the floppy image, Format C: with the /S option. Copy whatever files that you want. Then switch to your 2nd terminal and \"ps x\" - \"kill -kill (pid)\" to terminate the Bochs session.
Now change the boot line back to \"boot c\" and restart Bochs. You should have DOS from \"hd C:\".
DOS in a Bochs runs signifiantly faster under opie-embeddedkonsole 1.5.9.2 than it does under qkonsole 0.9.3-20040205. Plus Konsole uses less memory than Qkonsole & Konsole shows the \"\" char instead of the yen char. Attempto at running in qkonsole \"with magnified screen\" (ie: in portrait with the keyboard acessable) were excruciatingly slow and had repeated hangs and crashes.
OK. enough for one over long post. I have some more notes that I\'ll contribute later, but this should be enough to let folks dupliate the process safely.
Some screen shot PHGs are attached in a ZIP to show what you should expect to see.
Feedback, folks?
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Good work Bob, I\'m going to have a go this weekend, there are some DOS apps I\'d like to try :-)
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Good work Bob, I\'m going to have a go this weekend, there are some DOS apps I\'d like to try :-)
P_E - The only DOS apps that have failed to run so far are the ones using the APP200 HP-LX calls (of COURSE! .... G). The screen display is in B&W and some what funky at points (you\'ll see what I mean).
I have run MSD even & gotten system reports! A keyboard monitor that reports which scan codes are actually being generated by key presses & releases. PCTOOLS v4.2, even. QED & LIST. A whole bunch of PC DOS v7 utils. All functional.
But I haven\'t had time to install & configure keyhelper on the sacrifical C860 yet, so I have not been able to find a way to generate function keys (ie: F1, F2 & etc) or ALT keys, which is a major PITA.
Still & all. only been up & running for two VERY hectic days, so ......
Let me know what you find! (G!)
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Come on, gang. I want to see that first bar in the poll start to climb.
If you voted & can\'t change or vote twice, then lets start a new thread to reflect the new conditions! (G)
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thanks Bob, great work!
when im back to office i will try.
sepsep
@phuket hoilday
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How does someone gets files in and out of the c.img and d.img files? I assume that when I\'m in bochs DOS mode, I can\'t see the rest of my files outside of the IMG files?
Can someone post the b.img, c.img, and d.img files... everything minus the actual DOS boot image?
I\'m excited to try this out!
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How does someone gets files in and out of the c.img and d.img files? I assume that when I\'m in bochs DOS mode, I can\'t see the rest of my files outside of the IMG files?
Can someone post the b.img, c.img, and d.img files... everything minus the actual DOS boot image?
I\'m excited to try this out!
Tony -
So far I haven\'t found a utility that will write directly to the IMG files without making them unreadable by DOS inna Bochs. Its a major PITA, but I have been copying files to a 1.44 FDD & using RawWrite to make an IMG of the floppy. Then copying them to a HD IMG inside DOS Bochs.
There has to be a more elegant way, but I haven\'t been able to find it yet. But I HAVE gotten a LOT of practice starting & stopping Bochs! (G)
BTW - The DOS key scan utility shows that KeyHelper passes CTRL key combos through but NOT the ALT key combos. I haven\'t figured out how to get Keyhelper to fake F1 - F10 yet, either. Time, time, time (sigh).
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BTW - you can use the BXUTILITY from the Bochs IPK to *create* fresh IMG files (in case I wasn\'t clear about that in my first ramble). Both FDD & HD.
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BTW - you can use the BXUTILITY from the Bochs IPK to *create* fresh IMG files (in case I wasn\'t clear about that in my first ramble). Both FDD & HD.
Ah... that will come in handy. I\'m thinking I could make a d.img of the program DOS program directory I want to use.
As my signature states... this is one of my main Zaurus quests, and I\'m very excited to have it running!
Has anyone ventured to try to run GUI programs on Bochs... or even venture to try Windows98SE on it? (I personally don\'t \"need\" that, but it would be fun... )
Also, does Bochs work full screen? Some GUI-based DOS apps need the full VGA screen and when you aren\'t in full screen you can\'t get that.
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I built the latest version of bochs (2.1.1) and have it running on Xqt. I also built in the VNC protocol. I will try plain text and SDL later, but only if there is interest and only if the performance does suck (e.g. dir<enter>, then d i r appear at one sec interval, then the output (thats fast)). I am using the freedos image link from bochs and it is very slow. Howerver only 4MB of ram is used and it appears stable. I have not tested audio either. I do not know DOS, I thought I\'d just take a look at it.
Advice on how to best test this?
Thanks.
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VNC is slow, so slow. I was unable to get tightvnc to work, the Z vncviewer does work, but slow.
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I\'d like to build for SDL. Any recommendation on SDL to use?
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Ok, got the performance problem fixed. ips: 750000. The default ips was too high.
Typing in DOS and the display is realtime.
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I tried Bochs (under Qtopia) and Dosbox (under pdaX). I can say that Bochs is much harder to tune, and it\'s a little faster than Dosbox (but only a LITTLE, it\'s almost insignificant). Dosbox is simple enough to configure (write parameters into dosbox.conf file and edit it, Dosbox will recognize it and use the new parameters). It\'s a pity that I haven\'t managed to get it running even with the speed of 286-10 (the screen redrawing is VERY slow, no matter how many frames it skips, and even Adlib support makes things to be MUCH worse). It would be very nice if someone could achieve the performance of 286 - most of the games I want to run on my Z require nothing more.
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I built the latest version of bochs (2.1.1) and have it running on Xqt.
Hey, dj. By Xqt do you mean X11/pdaX ROM?
I also built in the VNC protocol. I will try plain text and SDL later, but only if there is interest and only if the performance does suck (e.g. dir<enter>, then d i r appear at one sec interval, then the output (thats fast)). I am using the freedos image link from bochs and it is very slow.
Scrap the freeDOS. Seriously. It is probably the reason that Bochs has gotten the reputation of being so slow, IMHO. PC DOS 7 is running more or less at real PC speeds for me.
Dir listings flash right up. But my own main reason for working on DOS in Bochs is trying to get the HP200LX CPACK200 to run on my C860 as a \"stopgap\".
I looked at DOSbox but it was rather poorly documented on how to get it up & running. The Bochs IPK that I located ran right from install. All that was needed besides the IPK was the bootable IMG.
I *LIKE* **THAT** kind of consideration (G).
Howerver only 4MB of ram is used and it appears stable. I have not tested audio either. I do not know DOS, I thought I\'d just take a look at it.
Advice on how to best test this?
I\'m going to try some of my old benchmarking softwsre this weekend to see what kind of performance is reported. Actually, to emulate plain DOS, only 1Mb RAM plus maybe some for overhead SHOULD be needed.
Thanks for the input!!
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ips: 750000 and freedos is now fast. I will build an SDL version as soon as I get the zports dev tree to link to.
I am currently testing X11 with Cacko 1.21b with Xqt for X.
dmame kills it with RIP ] CS.limit. I need some DOS code to test. I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.
Also is there a recommendation on VBE vs no-VBE?
Thanks.
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I tried Bochs (under Qtopia) and Dosbox (under pdaX). I can say that Bochs is much harder to tune, and it\'s a little faster than Dosbox (but only a LITTLE, it\'s almost insignificant).
Reaper - Found that the terminal console makes a MAJOR difference in Bochs performance. No disrespect, but I don\'t want to have to flash an X ROM just to run an emulator of a *simple* DOS system (aka HP200LX).
If it won\'t run with a stock Sharp ROM, its not what I need.
Dosbox is simple enough to configure (write parameters into dosbox.conf file and edit it, Dosbox will recognize it and use the new parameters).
I could NOT find a comprehensive FAQ for setting up DOSbox. Major points against it, in my book.
The Bochs that I\'m using is the same as what you describe. Text config file that can be specified when Bochs initiates. Very easy to modify.
It\'s a pity that I haven\'t managed to get it running even with the speed of 286-10 (the screen redrawing is VERY slow, no matter how many frames it skips, and even Adlib support makes things to be MUCH worse).
PC DOS 7 under the old Bochs is running at \"normal\" speeds for me. Of course, I\'m not trying any fancy stuf like sound, etc and the display is somewhat mangled with ^Ds and the like once the DOS apps run. But its early in the \"game\". (G)
It would be very nice if someone could achieve the performance of 286 - most of the games I want to run on my Z require nothing more.
What I\'d like to see right now, is some way to emulate ALT keys & F1 - F10 keys. I haven\'t gotten Keyhelper to do either one and these two are essential to a LOT of DOS apps operations.
But ..... only starting out. And I would say, yes, I get what I would call 286 speeds (except for that %^$#!)&*^% CPACK! grrrrr).
Thanks for the info!
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PC DOS 7 under the old Bochs is running at \"normal\" speeds for me. Of course, I\'m not trying any fancy stuf like sound, etc and the display is somewhat mangled with ^Ds and the like once the DOS apps run. But its early in the \"game\". (G)
I think I am getting good speeds with freedos so far. From # /tmp/bochs to c:] 15 sec boot time using 2.11 with the X windows interface. The screen looks like a perfect PC screen. No strange characters. Ctrl-C locks it up however for a long time (10-15 sec). Full screen edit works realtime. If PC DOC 7 will improve this I will switch to that.
What I\'d like to see right now, is some way to emulate ALT keys & F1 - F10 keys. I haven\'t gotten Keyhelper to do either one and these two are essential to a LOT of DOS apps operations.
This should be easy with xmodmap if you are running Xqt on Sharp or Cacko ROM with bochs x display.
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ips: 750000 and freedos is now fast. I will build an SDL version as soon as I get the zports dev tree to link to.
Great! I\'ll kick my BOCHSRC up to 750,000 ips then! Thanks! I felt bad reporting such dismal results for FreeDOS, since it *is* a worthy effort.
I need some DOS code to test. I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.
What type DOS stuff you want? I still have tons of old shareware - freeware CDs stacked up (G).
Also is there a recommendation on VBE vs no-VBE?
Thanks.
No opinion from here yet. Will fuminate (er, make that RUMINATE - danged ham handed fingers) on it.
Thanks, again! Working together we all can get this sucker flying, I believe.
I\'m going to *have* to make the time to get a cross compiler for the Z functional (sigh .... G)
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This should be easy with xmodmap if you are running Xqt on Sharp or Cacko ROM with bochs x display.
Tell me more, amigo. My first C860 has to go back for repairs but when it returns, I\'ll have my \"sacrificial\" test bed back to torture any way I want without worrying about temporarily bricking it up (G).
From what I\'ve seen so far, you gotta work REALLY hard to completely brick the C860!! Just some downtimes take longer to recover from.
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Just install Xqt (xqt.sourceforge.net) it runs on any sharp or sharp-based ROM. Start up X with a window manager (I prefer fluxbox), then run bochs with display set to x in bochsrc.
Xqt is just an X server for Qtopia.
Pic:
[img]http://sense.net/zc/scrn006.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
bochsrc:
romimage: file=BIOS-bochs-latest, address=0xf0000
megs: 1
vgaromimage: VGABIOS-lgpl-latest
floppya: 1_44=a.img, status=inserted
floppyb: 1_44=b.img, status=inserted
#diskc: file=c.img, cyl=121, heads=4, spt=17
diskc: file=c.img, cyl=306, heads=4, spt=17
#diskc: file=c.img, cyl=900, heads=15, spt=17
boot: c
#log: out.bochs
log: /dev/null
mouse: enabled=0
ips: 800000
display_library: x
pit: realtime=0
As for xmodmap, I\'ll have to play with it. Keyhelper is being used to set the to keys next to \'-\' as ctrl and alt. You should be able to set alt-1 as F1.
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Just install Xqt (xqt.sourceforge.net) it runs on any sharp or sharp-based ROM. Start up X with a window manager (I prefer fluxbox), then run bochs with display set to x in bochsrc.
Xqt is just an X server for Qtopia.
Hey, now THATS *very* nice! You\'ve \"talked\" me into it, dj (G).
As for xmodmap, I\'ll have to play with it. Keyhelper is being used to set the to keys next to \'-\' as ctrl and alt. You should be able to set alt-1 as F1.
Yeh. KeyhelperConfig shows them as CTL & ALT and the scan code DOS util shows the CTL combos, but all the ALT key combos come out as ESC.
The 1, 2, 3 & 4 keys don\'t seem to work \"normally\" in combo even in terminal alone. I\'ll make a list of the exact results that I\'m getting after I\'ve had some shut eye (G). Old man\'s gotta get his rest in.
THANKS! I\'ll start on Xqt tomorrow!
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OK, friends & \"neighbors\". Some interesting results to share. These come from Landmark\'s SPEED200 utility, v2.00 1990.
One of my stock HP200LXs tested out equivalent to a 4Mhz AT; CPU Clock 5.948Mhz; no FPU; CGA video at 1342.08 char/ms.
At 500,000 ips, Bochs DOS on a C860 with stock Sharp ROM v1.31, *independent* of the DOS type, the console type and the VGA BIOS image (!), tested equivalent to a 5Mhz AT; 80486 class processor; CPU Clock at 0.524Mhz (yes, thats what it said each time); 20Mhz 80287 FPU; VGA video at 995 char/ms.
FreeDOS was noticably slower in responce to key input than PC DOS 7 and Qkonsole was noticably more sluggish with each OS than when they ran under the embedded Konsole. It seems to be a key stroke buffer related delay, from what I could see.
Kicking up to 750,000 ips (THANKS, dj!), Bochs DOS became equivalent to an 8Mhz AT; 80486 class processor; CPU Clock 0.786Mhz (yes, again, thats what it said each time); 30Mhz 80287 FPU & VGA video at 1495 char/ms. Again, the figures were independent of the flavor of DOS, the terminal type, the VGA ROM image type & the perceived responciveness of the system.
Not too shabby really. But its been a long day at the lab, so I fogged out early & faded before I got too deeply into tweaking. That way lieth my \"all nighter\" sessions (G).
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Hi!
Reading the whole thread, what about using (parts of) qemu or bochs to run third-party, binary-only kernel modules? Can it be done? For example the binary-only part of nokia-d211 GSM/GPRS Modem card would be interesting. (nokia ships a nokia_cs source-code which links to a binary-only lib doing the real work.)
BjoKa
P.S.: Does anybody know of a GSM/GPRS card compatible with the zaurus? Searching a day now, but didn\'t find any clear answer
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!
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Hi!
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!
Howdy, BjoKa. Post was just fine. Can\'t answer your questions myself, but I anyone CAN, this is the place that you\'ll find them (G).
Welcome, friend!
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P.S.: Does anybody know of a GSM/GPRS card compatible with the zaurus? Searching a day now, but didn\'t find any clear answer
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!
Hi Bjoka. You would have more people see your question if you had started a new thread on it. In anycase, there is some info on GPRS scattered around the site.
I found this thread http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...&highlight=gprs (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1382&highlight=gprs) which might be helpful.
When you are searching on ZUG, I\'ve found it best to use the search link on the forum section, not the one on the front page. If you do a search on GPRS you\'ll find a lot of other threads to check out as well.
Welcome and good luck.
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datajerk - Well, I checked the X/Qt Server Project pages. An over abundance of options & downloads there (G).
Could I possibly persuade you to give us a mini FAQ (here or in its own spin off thread) on which IPKs are needed for minimum xqt installation, some of the Tricks, Traps, Got\'chas & such that you have learned from by your experiences and any other details to help us jump start the learning curve?
TIA!!
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datajerk - Well, I checked the X/Qt Server Project pages. An over abundance of options & downloads there (G).
Could I possibly persuade you to give us a mini FAQ (here or in its own spin off thread) on which IPKs are needed for minimum xqt installation, some of the Tricks, Traps, Got\'chas & such that you have learned from by your experiences and any other details to help us jump start the learning curve?
TIA!!
Bob,
These are the instructions I followed to install X/Qt.
Download and then install the following packages in this order:
1. xqt-fonts-misc
2. xqt-server
3. glic-locale
4. xbase-etc
5. xlibs
6. xqt-startup-script
8. xbase-client
Some of them should run from SD but I installed all to internal.You\'ll end up with two new icons:
X/QT Server: starts the X/QT server and enables a connection to an external X-server
Start X: starts a local X-server and enabled to run X-programs.
Bill
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Bob,
These are the instructions I followed to install X/Qt.
Thanks, Bill. I\'ll start downloading packages (G). The previous threads on the topic all seemed to list what packages were loaded by folks having trouble getting their systems running well rather than the IPKs used by those who DID get fully operational installations. Its appears to be a complex subject, and I\'ll take instruction on how to do it right the first time from whom ever has the experience under their belt to share! (G)
THANKS, again!
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I built the latest version of bochs (2.1.1) and have it running on Xqt.
Have searched and not been able to find Bochs 2.1.1 as IPK for Z. Can you suggest where a copy might be downloaded?
THANKS!
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Yo, Bill. Just to check -
Is glic-locale same as glibc-locale-eucjp or a different package?
Is xbase-client same as xbase-clientS?
Which Bochs version are you running?
TIA!!
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Bob,
Yes, glibc-locale-eucjp is correct. The \"eucjp\" part made me wonder at first, but it works. When you get blackbox running on x/qt, you\'ll see some submenus are japanese.
Also affirmative on xbase-clients. Sorry I wasn\'t crystal clear.
I have not tried running bochs on x/qt yet. But, I would like seeing the project progress to the point of being able to use abiword and gnumeric.
Bill
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Yes, glibc-locale-eucjp is correct. The \"eucjp\" part made me wonder at first, but it works. When you get blackbox running on x/qt, you\'ll see some submenus are japanese.
After installing the files, the local Xserver just got to the background with the \"X\" and aborted if a key was pressed or the screen tapped.
I have hardcopy of the earlier threads so started trying some of the suggestions from them. Used \"xinit\" & checked for zombie X processes. Still no joy. But the precise error messages from command prompt seemed to be changing.
Finally resorted to one suggestion. Uninstalled glibc-locale-eucjp & xqt-fonts-misc. NOW there were two particular lines immediately before the server shut itself down.
The process could not find either rxvt or blackbox! It seems the startup config does not look for any other window managers (such as fluxbox, which I HAD installed).
Installed blackbox & everything was perfectly copacetic. I\'m sure that I\'ll be able to hunt down where the script looks for rxvt &/or blackbox to change it to fluxbox. BUT, one of the blackbox menu options is to launch other window managers. THAT script was easy to find & I just edited in a line to launch fluxbox FROM blackbox.
Now that its running well, I\'m going to add back in the two uninstalled packages to see what happens. Will report from the front later (G).
Also affirmative on xbase-clients. Sorry I wasn\'t crystal clear.
Hey, you did great. Its not easy once we start loading a lot of libs & apps to know what is already installed and critical to a later success. (G) Without your help, it would have taken me a LOT longer to figure this puppy out.
I have not tried running bochs on x/qt yet. But, I would like seeing the project progress to the point of being able to use abiword and gnumeric.
Bill
I\'m not going to try the old Bochs & DOS under XQt because I\'m not sure that it can be shut down gracefully, like dataj\'s later version apparently can. I\'ll see if I can cop an IPK of the new ver somewhere.
Anyhow, folks, if you can\'t get XQt to run after installing all the packages, make SURE that either rxvt or blackbox are installed. Cause you are for dog gone certain NOT gonna get it going without one or the other (or a modified startup script for another of similar nature).
THANKS, again, Bill. You reduced my learning curve tremendously! Much appreciated, amigo!
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Bob,
Great that you got it working and that I was able to help. There\'s nothing better than to know you\'ve helped out.
I, too, want to run fluxbox, but don\'t know how. I had it installed, but like you said, x/qt looks for blackbox. Blackbox isn\'t all that bad. You can adjust the style a bit from the menus.
I did get gimp going though. It\'s amazing to see it load up, and it\'s not as slow as I thought it would be.
Bill
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Have searched and not been able to find Bochs 2.1.1 as IPK for Z. Can you suggest where a copy might be downloaded?
http://www.sense.net/zc/bochs/ (http://www.sense.net/zc/bochs/)
Recommended settings for your bochsrc files:
romimage: file=/usr/local/share/bochs/BIOS-bochs-latest, address=0xf0000
vgaromimage: /usr/local/share/bochs/VGABIOS-lgpl-latest
megs: 1
log: /dev/null
display_library: x
Here are the configure settings I used:
./configure
--host=arm-linux
--build=i686-linux
--x-includes=/opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/X11R6/include
--x-libraries=/opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/X11R6/lib
--prefix=$HOME/zaurus/bochs/usr/local
--enable-config-interface
--enable-new-pit
--enable-cpu-level=5
--enable-icache
--enable-mmx
--enable-sb16=linux
--enable-repeat-speedups
--enable-guest2host-tlb
--enable-all-optimizations
--enable-vbe
--enable-fpu
--with-rfb
--enable-idle-hack
--without-sdl
--with-x11
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Bob,
Great that you got it working and that I was able to help. There's nothing better than to know you've helped out.
I, too, want to run fluxbox, but don't know how. I had it installed, but like you said, x/qt looks for blackbox. Blackbox isn't all that bad. You can adjust the style a bit from the menus.
Hummm - my last post here seems to have vanished in the conversion. Ah well..
You were a great help, indeed.
I have found 2 ways to run fluxbox in xqt.
You can add it to the blackbox menu at
/opt/QtPalmtop/share/blackbox/menu
by going to the section that launches other window managers, copy the top line & edit the copy line to "fluxbox". Then launch fluxbox from blackbox.
Or by editing
/home/zaurus/.xinitrc
changing the line at the end from blackbox to fluxbox.
THANKS, dataj - you are TOPS!
Not complaining, just bug reporting -
I *have* been able to get the HP-LX CPACK software to run in the newer xqt-bochs v2.1.1 but that version of Bochs has some major bugs that I haven't been able to resolve so far.
- will not recognise HD img files, even when made fresh from bximage
- maps both the ";" & ":" Zaurus keys as ";" so it is impossible to change drives
(ie B: is seen as B;)
terminals in both blackbox & fluxbox see the keys correctly so bochs is the problem
- once the bochs VGABIOS image takes over, bochs becomes larger than the physical screen size.
- a couple others that I don't recall right off the top.
I'm going to have to put this project on hold in order to send my test bed C860 back for repair before the backlight fails entirely. No longer willing to risk putting my mission critical Z at risk of downtime (after that last scare).
But ... "Ah'll be bach!"
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- will not recognise HD img files, even when made fresh from bximage
I am using the freedos C: HD img without issue.
- maps both the ";" & ":" Zaurus keys as ";" so it is impossible to change drives
This is a problem with other applications as well. Xqt keymaps are wrong (they match standard PCs it appears, I plan to fix some day). You can remap any keys with xmodmap. Also bochs supports its own keymaps. (Read bochs docs).
terminals in both blackbox & fluxbox see the keys correctly so bochs is the problem
Yep. Look at bochs docs for keymaps.
- once the bochs VGABIOS image takes over, bochs becomes larger than the physical screen size.
VGA text mode is 720x400 resolution. VGA fonts are 8x16, however an extra pixel is added to the 8 for the space between fonts, except the special line drawing fonts. It is strange how it work. (8+1)*80 = 720.
If you run dosemu you will notice that the X VGA fonts are truely 8 pixels (7 for the char and include the space). So I need to take the X VGA font and convert to bochs format and redo some code to fix that. I am dumping the X version and working on the SDL version. With the SDL version I should have more control over the keys as well. Don't expect anytime soon.
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ehm... and what about trying to run Sensible Soccer? it's small, light and really addictive
Anyone did it?
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QUOTE
I need some DOS code to test. I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.
What type DOS stuff you want? I still have tons of old shareware - freeware CDs stacked up (G).
How about my DOS application.. which is the main reason why I'm trying to get Bochs working. (I've attached the program and the e-book manual to this message.)
Thanks for all of this great information. (Sorry I haven't been here to test this stuff, but we just had a baby 2 weeks ago and I haven't had any time... hopefully I will soon)
By the way... the recent change in the ZaurusUserGroup page code really messed me up. None of the links in my notification e-mails worked and the "Last 15 posts" no longer appears...
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This thread has been on full stop for some time ...
I am looking forward on emulating an i386 System and try to get DOS or even windows 98 over my Zaurus C860, maybe as a cool prank to the local guys, or even to awe myself
I've seen those pictures of an SL 5500 running the win98 boot screen ... It cannot be that difficult
Anyone got any new hint ?
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I cannot imagine Bochs on a processor as slow as the Z's running any faster than say a 286 or even an aging 386, and even that'd be pushing it.
Or can people report better results?
I think this would be a novelty rather than actually usable.
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Miami Bob,
If you can't get the CPACK running, are you able to run programs such as PE, MM/LX, VR, etc using palrun?
SNi
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How about the DOS app I attached above?
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I would just like to comment that I was successfully able to use the mcopy command of the Windows port of the mtools program to copy files from Windows to a hard disk image file. I believe that you need to install Cygwin for the mtools program to work, because when you untar the mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar file, it creates several symbolic links to the mtools.exe program, mapping various executable file names to mtools.exe. For example, when you use the mcopy.exe program to copy the files from Windows to the c.img file, the mcopy.exe program is actually a symbolic link to the mtools.exe file. Some Unix programs like uuencode/uudecode use this technique to alter their behavior depending on the program name with which they are called. I no longer recall where I got the mtools tar file, so I have attached it to this message. You can visit http://www.cygwin.com (http://www.cygwin.com) to download the Cygwin package, which allows you to run a lot of i386 Linux programs unmodified on a Windows system without rebooting into Linux.
1. Install Cygwin on your Windows computer.
2. Start Cygwin. You will then get a Unix command line prompt.
3. While in Cygwin, execute:
tar xvf /cygdrive/c/mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar
This assumes that you have saved the mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar file on the root directory of the C: drive. Cygwin mounts your Windows drives as:
/cygdrive/c for the C: drive
/cygdrive/d for the D: drive, and so forth
You can type the
mount
command by itself to see how Cygwin has mapped your drives.
The process of extracting the files from the *.tar file creates a directory named mtools-3.9.6 which contains the mtools.exe program and the associated symbolic links. I copied all of these files to the /usr/local/bin directory, because that directory is in my PATH, to make the mtools program names executable from the command line without having to specify the full path to each program:
cd mtools-3.9.6
cp * /usr/local/bin
cd ..
Alternatively, you could add the mtools-3.9.6 directory to your PATH environment variable by adding the following line to the .bash_profile file so that the directory is in your PATH the next time that you restart Cygwin:
PATH=$PATH:$HOME/mtools-3.9.6
When you first enter Cygwin, you are in your default $HOME directory. You have to create a file in this directory named:
.mtoolsrc
Note the period in front of the file name. This file needs to contain a single line which reads:
drive c: file="/cygdrive/c/c.img" partition=1
You can create this file without using vi or any other editor with a command:
echo 'drive c: file="/cygdrive/c/c.img" partition=1' > .mtoolsrc
The single quotes indicate a literal string.
This assumes that you have the c.img file on your C: drive.
You can then use the mcopy command as though it were the MSDOS copy command to copy files from your Windows hard drive to the c.img file. For example:
mcopy /cygdrive/c/filename.txt c:
When you are done, you can exit from Cygwin with the command:
exit
You can also access the files of your Cygwin $HOME directory from Windows under:
C:\cygwin\home\Default
The text files in Cygwin are terminated with Line Feed characters instead of Carriage Return / Line Feed pairs, so Notepad will not work directly on the text files in Cygwin.
This is longer than I expected it to be. Let me know if you have any problems with the steps that I listed.
I have Master of Orion v1.3 (the MSDOS version) running under Bochs on my Windows 98 system. My ATI Radeon 9700 Pro video card apparently uses so much ROM space that an EMS swap page cannot be set up, so I cannot run Master of Orion (MOO) natively. Running it under Bochs is nice, because MOO tends to crash occasionally, and a virtual reboot of the computer in Bochs is faster than a physical reboot.
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POSE on dosbox/qemu?
anyone gotten the Palm Emulator to run on Zaurus?
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POSE on dosbox/qemu?
anyone gotten the Palm Emulator to run on Zaurus?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=63401\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Isn't that a little like having a Lamborghini emulate a VW bug? :-P :-D :-)
"Yeah... just listen to that Palm Emulator Roar when I rev' up the engine!" LOL. :-)
But in reality I do understand the need for it (A palm emulator). There are some applications that are written for the Palm that aren't yet written for the Zaurus (sadly enough), such as some e-book readers (oh I know that we have some readers that claim to read all... but I have some e-books that only work on palm. I hope someday that will change).