OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => Cxx0 General discussions => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 27, 2004, 04:28:44 am
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Hi!
I am STRONGLY considering getting a C860 and having been reading reviews/views etc. and drooling over all the pics I could find on the net. I have a few questions, I hope the Gurus in these forums can answer
1.) I read in a Mobile Computing(or something :roll: ) magazine a not too flattering review. They did praise the display etc, but were not happy with Dynamism\'s translation, they complained about the Japanes/sqaure block menus - this is not a problem, since I will probably flash it with the new Cacko ROM anyway. What DID concern me, was their comment that the C860 could not open an Excel document that could easily be opened on a Palm Zire 21. I don\'t know if this is just stupidity on the reviewer\'s part or a real problem? The C860 surely has enough memory and CPU power, so what gives? I do need to work with small to medium sixed Excel spreadsheets on the C860. Is the coding in the Hancom application to optimised? Is there anybody that can tell me for sure if this is something to be worried about or not? Anybody opened a decent sized Ex el spreadsheet on the C860? Please let me know --- THANKS!
2.) If I flash with Cacko, can I still use the Hancom applications? I would still like to work on Excel, Word and Powerpoint applications(not that I WANT to, but because I HAVE to - the company I work for have all Microsoft crap software :evil: ). Are their maybe other alternatives - maybe Abiword etc.?
3.) If flashed with Cacko, will I still be able to sync with Outlook on my Windows 2000 laptop??
4.) Does the C860 have a handwriting recognition \"virtual\" area like you can have on the Tungsten T3? if not, how does it work? (From the looks of it, I gues I will use the keyboard mostly for text entry though).
Sorry, I know this was a lot to read, but I really want a C860 and just want to make sure I have all the facts. Thanks to anybody that actually answers this mumbo-jumbo
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Hi!
I am STRONGLY considering getting a C860 and having been reading reviews/views etc. and drooling over all the pics I could find on the net. I have a few questions, I hope the Gurus in these forums can answer
It\'s a good thing to get as much information before such a purchase :-)
I\'m not a guru, but I have a C860, so I\'ll try to answer:
1.) I read in a Mobile Computing(or something :roll: ) magazine a not too flattering review. They did praise the display etc, but were not happy with Dynamism\'s translation, they complained about the Japanes/sqaure block menus - this is not a problem, since I will probably flash it with the new Cacko ROM anyway. What DID concern me, was their comment that the C860 could not open an Excel document that could easily be opened on a Palm Zire 21. I don\'t know if this is just stupidity on the reviewer\'s part or a real problem? The C860 surely has enough memory and CPU power, so what gives? I do need to work with small to medium sixed Excel spreadsheets on the C860. Is the coding in the Hancom application to optimised? Is there anybody that can tell me for sure if this is something to be worried about or not? Anybody opened a decent sized Ex el spreadsheet on the C860? Please let me know --- THANKS!
I dont work much with this application, but I never experienced problems with opening documents so far...
2.) If I flash with Cacko, can I still use the Hancom applications? I would still like to work on Excel, Word and Powerpoint applications(not that I WANT to, but because I HAVE to - the company I work for have all Microsoft crap software :evil: ). Are their maybe other alternatives - maybe Abiword etc.?
Yes, the office applications stay untouched with the Cacko-Rom. Please install also the patch to the Elena-Rom, to avoid problems.
3.) If flashed with Cacko, will I still be able to sync with Outlook on my Windows 2000 laptop??
I never tried that one myself, but I\'m sure, that you can.
4.) Does the C860 have a handwriting recognition \"virtual\" area like you can have on the Tungsten T3? if not, how does it work? (From the looks of it, I gues I will use the keyboard mostly for text entry though).
When you choose the character recognition a little area divided in three subfields (Capitals, small letters, signs) will open. There you can enter the text. You can train the recognition to your own handwriting. Still, words get recognized letter by letter. That means that you\'ll have to lift the stylus from the screen after every character.
I\'m a huge fan of this device,
so I think you\'ll like it as well,
cheers,
Kathrin[/quote]
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Hancom Excel, when I open a file of 119664 bytes, I get a pop up saying \"you are trying to open a large-sized file. It may take a while to open\". It takes about 20 seconds to load. I don\'t know what the limit is, I haven\'t hit it yet. Largest spreadsheet I have created is 353792 bytes. But I usuallly work with small simple sheets that I create for use on the Z only. When I copied a spreadsheet to my PC and then back down, I got an error on formulas opening on the Z. Not sure what it was coughing up on. I\'m not sure if all the formulas work. I don\'t use many and I don\'t have english help. The delivered applications with the C-860 that work with Powerpoint are view only. I don\'t know what\'s in Cacko rom, but I believe I recall reading elsewhere on this board that you can find a version of Hancom\'s presentation manager from an earlier Z model that allows you to edit.
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Hi Vishnja/Guest
Thanks for the effort to reply on my questions, it is much appreciated!
I will do some more reading up, but I think I will get one in any case - there just does not seem to be anything that comes close to the functionality of the C860 in terms of a \"mini-laptop\" functionality as well as a PDA all in one. I will only be editing small to medium Excel sheets so it seems that it will not be a deal breaker.
Thanks again!
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Working with Excel documents on the Zaurus is a bit like viewing web sites with different browsers. I have recently worked with Excel documents using Hancom on my C760. It worked astonishingly well, even with rather exotic functions (if-then constructs, is-empty, etc.) in formulas , but you shouldn\'t expect a 100% compatibility, especially when it comes to formatting. For instance, if you use condtional cell formatting in Excel, you won\'t see the effects in Hancom. Text which fits in a column in Excel won\'t fit in Hancom and so on. Same is true for PopUpMenus, Buttons, Links, and other stuff, not to mention VBA Macros. In general, \"plain\" Excel sheets with formulas will most likely work well, yet as soon as a document has a more sophisticated formatting or structure or excessively uses Excel features, you will run into problems in Hancom (as in every other Excel compatible spreadsheet application)
Regards
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I am only a few days in to my C860 and I am still exploring the limits of what it can do. However I have tried several of my Excel sheets on the C860. From 24KB to 580Kb and had no problems. Sure it\'s slower to open than the PC but it scrolls quickly and with one exception I have had no problems with format of the cells or the formulas.
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Lisa (pdabyersguide) explicitely mentions Hancom-office as an advantage of the C860:
http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/ubbthreads/s...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 (http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=linux&Number=8331&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)
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Hi Vishnja/W.E. Coyote
Thanks for the replies!
After much deliberation, I have decided to take the plunge. Now I must just get the guts to part with my hard-earned cash and pray the guy that sells on e-bay(has some positive mentions on this board, I actually think Vishnja bought through him if I read correctly???) actually send the unit.
Thanks for all the inputs from this great community!!!
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After much deliberation, I have decided to take the plunge. Now I must just get the guts to part with my hard-earned cash and pray the guy that sells on e-bay(has some positive mentions on this board, I actually think Vishnja bought through him if I read correctly???) actually send the unit.
Yeah, I got my Zaurus from him and a friend of mine as well.
You will love the Z as soon as you open the package! No pictures can do it justice ;-)
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I believe I recall reading elsewhere on this board that you can find a version of Hancom\'s presentation manager from an earlier Z model that allows you to edit.
I guess my recollections are faulty. I can\'t find any powerpoint or slide presentation editing software for the Z.
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Hi Vishnja, thanks, that gives me a lot more confidence buying from the dude on e-bay!
One more thing, where did you get hold of your Nokia Bluetooth CF card? They seem to have been discontinued, but apparently fits flush with the C860 case and works out of the box(no swearing and hair pulling necessary to get it to work ). It would be great to get a hold of one of these cards.
Thanks!
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One more thing, where did you get hold of your Nokia Bluetooth CF card? They seem to have been discontinued, but apparently fits flush with the C860 case and works out of the box(no swearing and hair pulling necessary to get it to work ). It would be great to get a hold of one of these cards.
Thanks!
You are right, they have been discontinued, but you can still get them at ebay from time to time (quite cheap as well).
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Hi GUEST
I may get flamed for this, but I do not usually recommend a Z for anyone who -really needs- 100% Microsoft compatibility any more than I would recommend it for those who -really needs- a PDA, I think there are better suited machines for both purposes.
I would most certainly recommend it who would like a Linux mini-powerhouse, I quote the following from the ShirtPocket website:
\"Firstly, we would simply like to point out, that we would not recommend this device for the Novice User or Someone that simply wants a simple PIM (Personal Information Manager) device. This is a powerful tool, hence it is advisable to have at least some experience with such devices. Having said that, if you don\'t fall into the above categories then..\"
http://www.shirtpocket.co.uk/docs/zaurus.S...750.SL-C760.php (http://www.shirtpocket.co.uk/docs/zaurus.SL-C750.SL-C760.php)
If you think MS compatibility and PDA is of secondary importance then I really do recommend ANY of the C series machines, especially the C860 because I am biased ;-) You can get a hell of a lot out of these machines, I get more than I would with a laptop, but I would only install Linux anyway, I use mine for X windows, GIMP, C++ compiling, ebooks etc. But I do rely on Hancom Office for writing etc with no issues, I don\'t exchange docs to/from MS Office since I run Linux only, but I\'ve had no issues with interoperability with OpenOffice.
If it\'s right for you, it will quite simply blow you away. I agree with vishnja, you will shake and drool with excitement as you open it. I still keep looking at mine, looking and drooling.... LOL!
On another note, I personally would only buy one from a shop/importer who gave a full 12 month warranty, I almost got one off ebay but I worried about what if something went wrong, or I broke it or messed it up somehow, plus these are expensive devices, I felt it was worth the extra for the piece of mind.
I hope you do get one, have fun.
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If you\'re talking about \"K\" who has 100% great feedback, including some from me (shafferb) you won\'t be disappointed. This guy is first class all the way. I just can\'t say enough about how responsive he was, and how he really delivers on what he promises. All too rare, but \"K\" is just a great guy. My two cents worth.
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I may get flamed for this, but I do not usually recommend a Z for anyone who -really needs- 100% Microsoft compatibility any more than I would recommend it for those who -really needs- a PDA, I think there are better suited machines for both purposes.
Although there are better machines to act as a PDA, surely KO/PI gets closer to providing decent PIM functionality??
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Have to agree with padishah_emperor to a great degree.
One factor is how much text entry you do. My brother is an experienced computer *user* but not a true wirehead. He does much less text than I do. His main need is solid, easy to use PIM software to run his business. So he is a Palm user. The C860 would be MAJOR overkill for him.
One of the pathologists here at work is writing a book. Pocket portability is less important to him than a *full* sized keyboard & screen with full desktop compatibility. The C860 would be unsuitable for his needs, so he carries a notebook system.
I love my C860, but, to be honest, in many ways the PIM software on my old 200LX was significantly more powerful and flexible than the same types of software that I been able to locate for the Z. But, OTOH, the Z has abilities that the HP could never even hope to achieve.
You use the tool that suits the needs and does the job best for YOU. The power inherent in the C860 comes concurrent with less \"ease of use\". But if you are a \"hacker\" of the old, original tradition ..... this little machine will totally blow your mind and have you salivating like Pavlov\'s dogs!
\"And, if this be treason, then make the most of it\".
Patrick Henry (I think ... G)
Bob W
Miami FL
BTW - one of my \"credentials\" is being old enough to have patched paper tape. Seen \'em come & seen \'em go <G>. FWIW.
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I\'m sorry, but Icant\'t share your views (at least not in this thread ;-)) You really don\'t have to be \"a hacker in the old tradition\" to have some use and fun withe Zaurus. It\'s mostly gui-based and you find lot\'s of information how to use it in the net. I\'m no hacker at all, just a linux user and to me Palm devices and Pocket PCs are as interesting as a MP3 Player or a Videorecoder or a router: you configure them once and then forget about them. I use them without thinking at all. The Zaurus is different. It\'s a much more open device, just like a PC.
To me, Guest made a quite wellinformed impression. I don\'t think he was looking for palm, but was asking, whether the Z would provide the functionality he needs for his work.
Of course I do agree, that the Z would be probably the best choice for a \"real hacker\" as well :-)
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I love my C860, but, to be honest, in many ways the PIM software on my old 200LX was significantly more powerful and flexible than the same types of software that I been able to locate for the Z. .
This app runs on the Z.
And I doubt, that there is a PIM App for another PDA, which is compareable.
http://www.pi-sync.net/html/overview.html (http://www.pi-sync.net/html/overview.html)
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Hi Padisha_Emperor and Yodabob
Thanks so much for your insights/tips on this issue. I have been running desktop Linux for a while(written some php/MySQL web pages for work to present and query stats over the web(Apache) and draw graphs etc.). I love the fact that it is Linux. The need for Word/Excel compatibility would basically only be to view mail attachmenst etc. so basic compatibility is all I require.
At work all our meetings are scheduled on Outlook, so basic syncing would be handy to keep all my meetings etc. with me. (If I had anything to say about it, our company would only use Linux, but try and get that into I.T. people\'s brains which is stumped the second they don\'t have buttons to click :-) )
The REAL reason I need(OK, ok WANT a C860) is to use it over Bluetooth and my Nokia 6600 to retrieve corporate e-mail and SSH into the Solaris and Linux boxes I administer. Also to do some shell scripting and Perl programming while on-the-go. I am on standby a lot and want to be able to dial-in to the boxes while on the move, else I need to drive home everytime I get a call-out to dial in via ISDN.
I have not receievd any replies from ryouma(the e-bay guy) in the last two days on my questions, so I am starting to wonder... Another possibility is Brando(www.shop.brando.com.hk), they seem to be cheap - I just don\'t know how reliable. Anyway, my quest to find a C860 continues....
Thanks again for the help!
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The Z is the ultimate device for Linux lovers and \'classically trained\' computer users/hackers. I am convinced though that a Z is an overkill for Windows *users* who want a standard PDA or need MS Office interchange as a priority. If you buy one, just on looks or because you like the screen or keyboard that may not by the best criterion for decision. I think of the Z as more of a blank canvas, you tailor it to your needs, make your own device from it, but to get the most, you have to treat it like any other Linux desktop or laptop, the shell is there, lurking like a Golem. The GUI is fine, to a point only, beyond which the mysteries and shamanic rituals of the shell come into play. If runs any flavour of UNIX I\'m at home, be it a PDP-11 or my Sun, Debian or Zaurus. But I\'ve seen here on ZUG and in the real world, people run into dead ends an get disappointed because they spend a lot of money and then realise they can\'t do X or Y, they could, but it would require \'getting your hands dirty\'. I can\'t advise about wifi or bluetooth, because I don\'t trust anything that doesn\'t have a cable, I\'m a proud luddite at times :-) Anyway, there\'s enough EM radiation flying about and I am already as mad as a moonstruck cow.
I agree with vishnja on most things ;-)
If the original poster reads my inane jibber: don\'t be put off, rather see this as an opportunity to learn something good and worthwhile, the Z more than any machine in a LONG time has re-invigourated my love of computing, the Z will provide a nice GUI and apps for most things, plus like any **real computer or OS** there is power brimming under the surface, all you need is a bit of determination and you can make it do anything.
In short: like Linux? Love the Z.
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Oh fart!
That was me, got logged out. Plus I see the poster has replied.
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Not sure as I said above about the bluetooth/nokia stuff, others here on ZUG will have more experience in that arena, but the info you just posted shows you would get a lot from a Z.
Perl, scripting etc are all doable of course, it\'s Linux! Oh my, get one - GET ONE!
You will LOVE IT.
Join us, give yourself to the darkside... ;-)
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Dang, I\'m the original poster, I surf from home and from my laptop at work and then I forget to log in. Just noticed now that Padisha_Emperor mentioned not being logged in himself!
WOW :shock: , the Ko/Pi PIM from Zautrix looks AMAZING, should satisfy all my PIM needs for sure! We are not worthy, Zautrix, any chance of some programming tutorials etc. for the Zaurus any time soon? That will REALLY be great! This is the type of thing that seems to elevate the Z above all other \"wannabe\" types(i.e. palm, Hp etc).
My only pain now is to actually get my grubby paws on one! I live in South Africa, and you guessed it, I can\'t use Paypal, moneybookers or Westernunion to pay. I have to go the olde International Money Transfer route .... ugh. I am so worried some unscrupulous dude steals my money - then no more C860 infatuation!
Anyway, seems like Brando, Hi-Tech and the e-bay guy seems to be my best bet at the moment. Some good comments from other ppl that have delt with the e-bay guy though, but I see Brando offers 12 mont warranty, and hi-tech seems to be the cheapest...decisions, decisions! :?
Thanks again for all the responses, I hope I can get one soon so I can also start contributing to this community!
Darkside, here I come!...
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The REAL reason I need(OK, ok WANT a C860) is to use it over Bluetooth and my Nokia 6600 to retrieve corporate e-mail and SSH into the Solaris and Linux boxes I administer. Also to do some shell scripting and Perl programming while on-the-go. I am on standby a lot and want to be able to dial-in to the boxes while on the move, else I need to drive home everytime I get a call-out to dial in via ISDN.
I do this frequently and is why I orginally got the 5500 and now my c860 and switched to T-mobile/T610 for the bluetooth and the unlimited GPRS for $20/month. And the battery life is excellent. I use my c860/T610 combo on and off all day with little impact.
For perl I have been using the 5.6.1 ipk. It is smaller than 5.8.0 and works for me (mostly network/socket codes). I will try building a 5.8.4 ipk soon and try to reduce the size. PerlQT is on my list too.
For personal email I use the native Sharp email client, however my ISP requires SSL for SMTP/POP3/IMAP. For now I SSH to my shell account forward pop3/smtp and point the email client to localhost. I\'ll figure out stunnel later. My ISP also has web mail, and with the c860 resolution that is fine too.
For corp email we use Lotus Notes and I need a Windows only tunnel to get in. I use qtrdesktop to get to my XP machine to run the tunnel and read my email.
Other must have apps:
X/qt for X11 applications
Ethereal (X11 app)
nmap with qt frontend
kismet and kismet qt
qpdf
qpe gaim
I must add that when running 10 apps you can get low on RAM. No worries just plug in an SD card and create a 64K swap file and double your memory.
What else beside the Z can do all that? And fit in your pocket?
If you had told me 15 years ago that I would have a VGA, wireless, pocket UNIX workstation, I would have laughed in your face.
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Darkside, here I come!...
Amen to that.
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I have not receievd any replies from ryouma(the e-bay guy) in the last two days on my questions, so I am starting to wonder... Another possibility is Brando(www.shop.brando.com.hk), they seem to be cheap - I just don\'t know how reliable. Anyway, my quest to find a C860 continues....
Yeah, they all might be on \"Golden week holidays\" right now...
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2282.html (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2282.html)
http://japanupdate.com/en/?id=5666 (http://japanupdate.com/en/?id=5666)
Good luck in finding your Zaurus!
cheers,
Kathrin
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Join us, give yourself to the darkside...
Resistance is futile!
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Call me Luck.
If you had told me 15 years ago that I would have a VGA, wireless, pocket UNIX workstation, I would have laughed in your face.
The Zaurus SL-C760 with its PXA255 400Mhz 64Mo RAM 128Mo flash is faster and more powerful than most 6 years old laptop. I\'m sure that Linux gourou + hacker + normal user can share its power without fighting. Just feel the force arround you and understand the Zaurus wealth.
Apparently the Zaurus is the best selled PDA in Japan. Consequently, there\'s two solutions for dark site people:
1. All Japanese are hacker or Linux gourou.
2. In Japan, they think that a Zaurus is for the mass market but they are all wrong.
Have a nice day.
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Apparently the Zaurus is the best selled PDA in Japan. Consequently, there\'s two solutions for dark site people:
1. All Japanese are hacker or Linux gourou.
2. In Japan, they think that a Zaurus is for the mass market but they are all wrong.
*LOL*
You took the biscuit!
K.
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Apparently the Zaurus is the best selled PDA in Japan. Consequently, there\'s two solutions for dark site people:
1. All Japanese are hacker or Linux gourou.
2. In Japan, they think that a Zaurus is for the mass market but they are all wrong.
Nope, I really don\'t get it.
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I must say the C860 and its older siblings look great. I just settled on an SL5600 which for now will be fine.
I\'ve not been able to locate a real solid answer to a quesiton about the C860 (and like) keyboards. They\'re no doubt bigger than anything else built-in, but are they really big enough to someone with modest sized hadns to actually touch-type on them. Or, at the very least, type without having to use the classic hunt-peck methods you have to endures on a keyboard like that found on the 5600?
For my needs decent keyboard access is important. I\'ll get that certainly with a wirelss keyboard attached to my 5600, but if I can get close results with a C860 that\'d go a long way to getting me to buy one.
I agree these litle guys are great. I want to try things with them now that I\'ve not thought about for some time.
I\'m still going to miss my Newton (what a wonderful OS and technology base - especially after NOS 2.0 - speaking as a user and Newton developer) but the Z has a lot going for it.
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For Hancom Word it isn\'t as much the file size as it is the result number of text lines. I tried to open a txt file that was around 750 KB in Hancom Word and my 64 MB Zaurus eventually stopped responding. ...so I think it\'s the number of resulting lines of text instead of just the file size. I suspect I could create a Word document that only said \"Hello World\" and had a 1.5 MB BMP attached, and it would load fine.
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I\'ve not been able to locate a real solid answer to a quesiton about the C860 (and like) keyboards. They\'re no doubt bigger than anything else built-in, but are they really big enough to someone with modest sized hadns to actually touch-type on them
I have large-ish hands, I only do wordprocessing on my Z nowadays rather than on a PC, I had quite a speed on my 5500, but I find the 860 keyboard very adequate, if it\'s sat on a desktop being used \'laptop\' style I can go almost as fast as I do on my desktop machine.
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I have not receievd any replies from ryouma(the e-bay guy) in the last two days on my questions, so I am starting to wonder... Another possibility is Brando(www.shop.brando.com.hk), they seem to be cheap - I just don\'t know how reliable. Anyway, my quest to find a C860 continues....
Yeah I have also been trying to buy a C860 from ryouma for the past few weeks, but he hasn\'t been answering any emails in this time (and I have tried a number of times). Many on this board really recommend him though. Maybe Golden Week (Japanese spring holiday which was last week) kept him offline. I am tempted to go with Japan-Direct; they at least answered my email in ~12 hours.
FWIW,
C.
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Hi Charlesa
I did get a hold of ryouma and have wired the money(still waiting for the damn bank to complete the transaction :-( ). He has been responsive and helpful on e-mail so far, although he did e-mail me to say that the invoice would be a bit late due to the \"Golden Week\" holidays in Japan at that stage. He sometimes does take a while to get back on some points, but I don\'t have any complaints so far.
From just the number of posts on this board, it looks like the dude is quite busy sending Zaurii all over the place, so that might also explain the slow response sometimes experienced.
My bank says the money will be transferred only the day after tomorrow. I am so impatient now that I have finally decided to go ahead with getting one of these little beasts! :-) now I will be a nervous wreck for the next 2 weeks \'til it arrives. I just pray it gets here safely and in one piece!
Good luck with your purchase, cheers!