OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ultra-hp on June 01, 2004, 07:22:13 pm
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I thought that this was dead? Last news release was in 2002 - now they claim it will be out in 2004.
Video
http://news.com.com/1606-2-5222650.html (http://news.com.com/1606-2-5222650.html)
website
www.oqo.com
Ultrathin and light Windows XP notebook weighs in at 14 ounces
A 14-ounce notebook replacement that runs XP and offers full computer functionality is the promise of OQO\'s Ultra Personal Computer. Jonathan Betts-LaCroix, OQO\'s chief technology officer, gives ZDNet\'s David Berlind a preview of the unit, set for release in July 2004.
photo
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/03.jpg (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/03.jpg)
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/37.jpg (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/37.jpg)
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/34.jpg (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/34.jpg)
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/39.jpg (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/39.jpg)
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/48.jpg (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/48.jpg)
http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/40.jpg (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/img/40.jpg)
Any thoughts or opinions?
It\'s a nice design- except that the screen will get scratched - I wonder if we can convert this to Linux? With 1 gig processor and 20 gig hard drive - it would be cool! Biggerst problem is estimated price is $2000 USD :roll: - OUCH!
I still love my SL-C760!
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I prefer the Flipstart - a much better form factor for me, not much bigger than the Z!
http://www.mini411.com/show/news/5 (http://www.mini411.com/show/news/5)
It should be possible to run Linux on these devices which would be cool.
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yawn
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2000!? WKKSHHHHH Nonsense.
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These people who make it know that people like us like the zaurus and try to copy it so they can take the market away!
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I am confused by your reply padishah_emperor...........what do you mean?
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Notice that they do NOT have the courage to include the C860 in their \"handtops\" list for the survey? <G>
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I am confused by your reply padishah_emperor...........what do you mean?
I thought it was self evident really. Yawn sums up quite nicely what I think of this XP device. It will appeal to click-kiddies and geeks with more money than sense. When someone makes something like a tiny laptop and puts Linux on it, then I\'ll take an interest.. oh hang on.. Sharp did that, it\'s called a 860.
Sorry, you asked for opinions and thoughts and \'yawn\' is mine, runs XP and costs too much. It ought to dance a merry jig and make my breakfast for that kind of money. All those lovely specs just to drag that XP thing into working, waste. Worse still, port Linux to it, with various bits not implemented or working after. Into File 13 along with that flapjack or flipflop or flipstart or what ever. I\'ll cast my lot with Sharp until the Z passes into history, as a former 200LX user, I\'m used to getting a number of years from a device before I start looking at other things.
ORG, Shouldn\'t this be off-topic?
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see http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/ (http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/)
and you will find something really cool.
[img]http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/Images/U_lead_top.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
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Yawn...
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I am confused by your reply padishah_emperor...........what do you mean?
I thought it was self evident really. Yawn sums up quite nicely what I think of this XP device. It will appeal to click-kiddies and geeks with more money than sense. When someone makes something like a tiny laptop and puts Linux on it, then I\'ll take an interest.. oh hang on.. Sharp did that, it\'s called a 860.
Sorry, you asked for opinions and thoughts and \'yawn\' is mine, runs XP and costs too much. It ought to dance a merry jig and make my breakfast for that kind of money. All those lovely specs just to drag that XP thing into working, waste. Worse still, port Linux to it, with various bits not implemented or working after. Into File 13 along with that flapjack or flipflop or flipstart or what ever. I\'ll cast my lot with Sharp until the Z passes into history, as a former 200LX user, I\'m used to getting a number of years from a device before I start looking at other things.
ORG, Shouldn\'t this be off-topic?
Why would it appeal to me? First off, it has some awesome hardware. About the only thing that I saw that was lacking was that it didn\'t have the CG screen. It\'s about the same size as a C series, and is roughly about as powerful as an older (but not that old) laptop.
As for your observation on how a linux port to it would be somewhat lacking, exactly how is that different than what we have now? While most of us love to fiddle with the latest ROM that comes out, few of us could say that they ran \"perfectly\". This is in no way a insult, as far as I\'m concerned, a good part of the fun is fiddling with it
But yes, XP would have to go. And 2K$ is a bit much. I\'ll stick to my 860 as well
As for off-topic, isn\'t this the general discussion forum?
John
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I was under the impression this was off-topic as it isn\'t related to the Z, as for your other points I was not opening a debate, merely replying to the posters request for thoughts and opinions, I gave mine, its crap.
As for fiddling, that\'s Linux. Mine runs perfectly for me, apart from when I break something, or am playing. MS products are no brainers, these machines will appeal to people who like such things, not me. Zauruses are not aimed at these kind of people. Click-kiddies.
If people are interested in these XP things they can buy it. No problem, computers have to come in different varieties to suit different people and their needs. But I wouldn\'t have one given to me. Well, I would, then I\'d sell it and import some more Z\'s for friends who cannot afford one. But that\'s me.
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the VAIO U looked really nice!! :-)
U50 --] 900Mhz, 256M
U70 --] 1Ghz, 512M
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see http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/ (http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/)
and you will find something really cool.
Where\'s this really cool thing then? I just see another XP machine. Plus it\'s Sony, buy today get axed tommorrow.
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Plus it\'s Sony, buy today get axed tommorrow.
Careful that sonds a bit like Sharp DevNet...
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I prefer the Flipstart - a much better form factor for me, not much bigger than the Z!
http://www.mini411.com/show/news/5 (http://www.mini411.com/show/news/5)
It should be possible to run Linux on these devices which would be cool.
Actually the FlipStart is quite a bit bigger than the Z, but the OQO is almost EXACTLY the same size as the Z.
SL-C760 4.7\" x 3.3\" x 0.9\"
OQO 4.9\" x 3.4\" x .9\"
FlipStart 5.8\" x 4\" x 1\"
I don\'t think the Flipstart will fit in my pocket :-) That thing is huge.
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I\'ve read somewhere OQO will support linux and flipstart have absolutely no willing to support it ... also even if it\'s more expensive than our zauriis, hey look at the specs ...1500~2000$ for 1Ghz cpu/256Mbram/20Gb hard drive and compare to your 700+$ Z with 400Mhz cpu/64or128Mb ram etc... double the price but also double the specs just throwing my 2 pence anyway
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Plus it\'s Sony, buy today get axed tommorrow.
Careful that sonds a bit like Sharp DevNet...
Ha, ha, Touché.
John
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From the FAQ on the Vulcan site:
Can I run Linux on FlipStart?
FlipStart is a generic x86 PC using off-the-shelf components from leading manufacturers. As with other x86 PCs, a Linux port should be possible with tweaks to some device drivers (such as the 1024x600 screen resolution, WiFi chip, etc.). However, Vulcan currently has no plans to provide support to Linux porting efforts.
Looks good to me , but then so does the thought of a Zaurus with faster processor and mini hard drive.
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These things are more look more like a castrated laptop then a Zaurus. No doubt they have x86 CPU\'s which will probable consume 5 to 10 times the power of a Arm processor. Then add to that a hard drive, which means you\'ll be sucking batteries faster then a 76 Chrysler New Yorker with its 440 (7.2 liter) engine sucks gas.
PS Anyone want to buy a 76 New Yorker two door with only 80,000 miles. I\'ll sell it for 20 cents a pound.
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These things are more look more like a castrated laptop then a Zaurus. No doubt they have x86 CPU\'s which will probable consume 5 to 10 times the power of a Arm processor. Then add to that a hard drive, which means you\'ll be sucking batteries faster then a 76 Chrysler New Yorker with its 440 (7.2 liter) engine sucks gas.
PS Anyone want to buy a 76 New Yorker two door with only 80,000 miles. I\'ll sell it for 20 cents a pound.
Yes, battery life is an area where the Z wins easily. I believe all these WinXP devices only claim a couple of hours of use between charges.
Of course, once one adds wireless and hard drive use battery life is going to be rather poor.
I remember renting a New Yorker in one of my first trips to the US. We always refered to it as \"The Brothel Creeper\". Of course MPG was not an issue back then.
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IF everything that was pointed out here was $10 I\'d get the sony one. IF it was $10 not $2000!!!!!
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Where\'s this really cool thing then? I just see another XP machine. Plus it\'s Sony, buy today get axed tommorrow.
it is just a tiny PC,not XP only,you can install linux or BSD or whatever you want.
As a matter of fact,you get the most freedom.
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mmh, yawn still stands. It\'s not a Z, really this is off-topic as it has nothing to do with the Zaurus.
Anyhoo, I\'d get another Z one day as a spare, in a year if I had a cash surplus, but anything else no. I like what I have, this is my second Z. You (I wont say traitors ;-)) can point out anything but if it\'s a PC with XP, I\'m not interested. I only have PC hardware at home because I can run Linux on it and it was easy to get a TV card for my Linux media centre, otherwise I\'d use my Sun all the time. x86 compatiblity is a convenience for precompiled binaries and off-the-shelf hardware, not a necessity for me at all. I\'ve been using ARM platforms since Acorn invented them, so the fact that these are PCs in one way or another means nothing to me.
As for the Sony thing, I have been stung by every Sony product I have ever wasted my money on, from amplifiers to TVs, VCRs and Clie\'s. Never again - ever! ;-) Freedom? I have the \'freedom\' I want already, a $2K PC derivative will not give me anything more than a Z. For practical day-to-day things, my Z beats everything else. If I am out and want to sit in a field and write something, I can switch on my Z, tap HancomWord and be writing within a 2-3 seconds, can a PC do that? No. Even with Linux on a FlapJack or any of these things, I\'d have to switch on or even boot, open say OpenOffice, wait for that, all by which time my inspiration would be gone. No, the Z is my ultimate ultra-personal computer. I can watch whole movies, I\'ve got all my favorite albums on it, all my books and everything works rapidly, faster in practical terms than any PC. Not to mention that these will all have at least a couple of components unsupported by Linux, like the FlipFlop\'s mono LCD indicator screen, you can bet it will require proprietary drivers for XP only.
Nah! Yawn. But that\'s me.
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You do know exact what you want,but I don\'t.
I am just looking for something \"NEW\" all the time.
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You do know exact what you want,but I don\'t.
I am just looking for something \"NEW\" all the time.
mmh, a recipe for unhappiness...
I\'m never really tempted by anything anyone shows me or tries to sell me. Unless I really want something, I rarely show interest. I tend to start by knowing exactly what I want and then buying to fill that need as a long term investment, rather than buying and then looking for a need. That\'s me, I used to be completely the other way round, I\'d rather give $2K to charity than buy for the sake of it. :-)
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see http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/ (http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/)
and you will find something really cool.
Where\'s this really cool thing then? I just see another XP machine. Plus it\'s Sony, buy today get axed tommorrow.
Padish,
I really have to take issue with your attitude to these Xp boxes... I\'m a happy Zaurus camper, but I\'m also objective about what it\'s good at and what it isn\'t good at. F.I., I would never dare to give one to any of my realtives, it\'s just too flakey.
There is room for both hardcore systems for the likes of you and I, who actually enjot tweaking and fiddling with computers for it\'s own sake,and for systems which are there to do a job (maybe not that well). Someone who makes chair legs doesn\'t want to spend most of their time stripping lathes apart...
What killed Psion was the lack of hardware investment, so that although it had (and still has) the best PDA software around and by-far the best keyboard, no-one wants to be using an 18MHz b&w screened PDA any more when there are 400MHz full-colour devices around. Like it or not, it\'s the economies of scale of the the Windoze community that gets the big hardware vendors interested in producing cheap, powerful kit to push along nasty creaky OSs like XP. In the end we all benefit. :-)
Arnie
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Padish,
I really have to take issue with your attitude to these Xp boxes...
Ok, go for it ;-)
I\'m a happy Zaurus camper, but I\'m also objective about what it\'s good at and what it isn\'t good at. F.I., I would never dare to give one to any of my realtives, it\'s just too flakey.
Thats YOUR opinion, I have given a Z to a family member who has not had one problem with it, beyond insufficient compact flash storage. I take issue with you as to the Z being flakey, maybe for Windophiles who don\'t know how to setup or run Linux but I have not had many problems, no more than I expect from any Linux box when setting it up.
There is room for both hardcore systems for the likes of you and I, who actually enjot tweaking and fiddling with computers for it\'s own sake,and for systems which are there to do a job (maybe not that well). Someone who makes chair legs doesn\'t want to spend most of their time stripping lathes apart...
Well, I used to be a UNIX sysadmin and enjoy fiddling, now I don\'t. I set my kit up and leave it.
What killed Psion was the lack of hardware investment, so that although it had (and still has) the best PDA software around and by-far the best keyboard, no-one wants to be using an 18MHz b&w screened PDA any more when there are 400MHz full-colour devices around.
I haven\'t even mentioned Psion, nor is any comparison relevant. I did not rate the Psion that much, it was ok but I wanted more computer and less PDA, I broke TWO of those lovely keyboards.
Like it or not, it\'s the economies of scale of the the Windoze community that gets the big hardware vendors interested in producing cheap, powerful kit to push along nasty creaky OSs like XP.
OK, not sure what you are getting at. But yes, the mass cattle buying into Bills vision do subsidise PC hardware in the grand scheme of economics, but it may be wrong as I was putting computers together cheaply before Microsoft dominated and made everything bland and boring. Like I said before, x86 compatibilty isn\'t really important to me. My main computer was a Sun until recently when I finally dispensed with my interest in computing, I have an entertainment system running Debian and a Z, that\'s is me, no-one else.
I don\'t have to justify anything to you do I? or anyone really as I am expressing my view only. I\'m not a money grabber or aspire to wealth, I live a fairly frugal life and would not feel comfortable sleeping at night making the worlds richest man even richer and spending that kind of money on anything like a PC. I saved for a year for my Z, and even at the moment of purchase I agonised as to whether I should go through with it or not, I\'m glad I did, I will get more use from it than a desktop system or laptop or simple PDA. My choice, my money, I\'d rather buy a Z, a £300 PC and give the rest away to people and causes who could use it better than I could in the guise of a mini PC :-)
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OK, not sure what you are getting at. But yes, the mass cattle buying into Bills vision do subsidise PC hardware in the grand scheme of economics, but it may be wrong as I was putting computers together cheaply before Microsoft dominated and made everything bland and boring. Like I said before, x86 compatibilty isn\'t really important to me. My main computer was a Sun until recently when I finally dispensed with my interest in computing, I have an entertainment system running Debian and a Z, that\'s is me, no-one else.
You sound bitter, must have something to do with that Sun box...
I don\'t have to justify anything to you do I?
Nope. Feel free to quit anytime. :roll:
John
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Very interesting! Yes, WindowsXP would have to go... and it is way out of my price range. 20GB is nice! I\'m glad flip-start, this, and others like this are starting to come out... maybe that will encourage Sharp to put better clamshells in the US as well.
I think this conversation is more about hardware and less about OS... can\'t you put Linux on anything?
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I looked at both these devices. The Sony Vaio is not impressive to me at all. Besides, Sony just announced that they are dropping all hand held/ Palmtop lines in the US. So it will probably never make it out of Japan anyway.
The OQO has some promise. It docks into a docking station, so the idea of taking your full functioning computer wherever you go becomes more of a reality. No syncing needed. Built in Bluetooth, and 802.11b, nice but why not 802.11g? 20 gig HD, 1ghz processor, 256DDR RAM, also nice for the size. Firewire, nice too. But why in the world would you only have USB 1.1? Also, no CF or SD slots?? Not good. The right idea, but it needs to be tweeked some. Maybe second or third generation will be worth taking a look at - when the price comes down and they correct the mistakes mentioned above. Until then I will continue the love affair with my C860....
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What killed Psion was the lack of hardware investment, so that although it had (and still has) the best PDA software around and by-far the best keyboard, no-one wants to be using an 18MHz b&w screened PDA any more when there are 400MHz full-colour devices around.
Disagree with you on this point my friend! The best PDA software with \"one of the \"best keyboards\" (more sturdier than the Psion) was the Sharp Zaurus ZR-5800. I still own both and used them for years, in fact my new C860 replaced my Psion 5mx which had replaced my Zaurus ZR-5800. The death nail for the Psion was when the company discontinued the line and pulled support. Agreed it was on it\'s last leg but there was a significant user base still out there, me included. The Zaurus ZR- line had a similar fate but Sharp refused to release the SDK so 3rd party software was practically nonexistent. But nothing compaires to the tight integration of the Zaurus ZR-5800 software! Because it was proprietary, it was tight (you could link anything to anything else and time and date stamp it at the same time) couldn\'t do that with the Psion 5mx) and it was word and excel compatible. You could print directly from it to a printer for goodness sakes! I wish someone-anyone would/could develop a copie of it to run on the new Zaurus C860, I would be in heaven and I am positive so would a lot of others.
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Sony just announced that they are dropping all hand held/ Palmtop lines in the US.
\"Palmtop\"? Sony actually refers to that as a Palmtop? I remember when notebooks used to be almost that small... and they called them \"Laptops\". Palmtop doesn\'t mean you can \"hold it in your hand\" it means \"it is smaller than your hand\". I often hold my laptop in my hands and it is a heavy beast... but it isn\'t a palmtop, and neither is this \"Notebook\" from Viao.
Zaurus... now THAT\'s a palmtop.
802.11b, nice but why not 802.11g? ... But why in the world would you only have USB 1.1? Also, no CF or SD slots??
I missed that before. Yes... the lack of CF, & USB 2 is a big deal. (I personally can live without the SD slot I don\'t like the \"closed greedy\" SD patent owners and I don\'t think we should head down that path, unless needed... such as with the Zauri). I don\'t know enough about the 802.11b versus 802.11g to know the difference. Is 802.11g faster?
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I dunno
I\'d be quite happy with win 95 on the zaurus ....
in some sort of emulator -- so I could play some simple/old games.
Scott
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You sound bitter, must have something to do with that Sun box... :P
No I am not bitter at all, I\'d shoot Bill G dead without a flicker of moral doubt if I could but I\'m not bitter. I\'m not bitter that people throw money at him for producing something no more interesting than a half baked cow turd, I\'m not bitter that I and my parents went through hell and back to pay for tertiary degrees in a subject that was killed for me by Microsoft and brain dead managers who buy their stuff. I\'m not bitter that that mogul makes millions in the time it takes me to lay a dump, while children starve and most of the world struggles on less than a dollar a day. Not bitter at all really, coz I am never going to work in IT or buy MS products ever again. It\'s a blessing, not something to be bitter about. Free at last, free at last, thank God, I am free at last.
I don\'t have to justify anything to you do I?
Nope. Feel free to quit anytime. :roll:
Well thanks for your permission to bail, but I wasn\'t addressing you. :roll:
Look, these things may be ok for some, no doubt. Not for me. I have the device/ uPC I always wanted, it would do *nothing* for me at all, in fact I would get much less use from one of these than I would a Z, so why would I want one? I pity those who constantly search for more and more things to buy and never find any joy or contentment, it\'s sad. And like I said, I justify nothing to no man.
What a lovely chat this is.
Tony is right of course, if it shipped with Linux by default and had 2 or 3 times the battery life and a quarter of the price, I\'d look again. I just have a moral and ideological objection to anything Windows.
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have the device/ uPC I always wanted, it would do *nothing* for me at all, in fact I would get much less use from one of these than I would a Z, so why would I want one?
For me this device holds 3 specific things I\'m very interested in:
* x86 support (to play old PC games and my now obsolete e-book reader from the 1980s)
* Faster (The Zauri is still a little slow for some \"desktop\" stuff such as high-quality video playback and 3d games)
* More harddrive space. (I spent a small fortune to get 2 GB for my Zaurus and this has TEN TIMES that much!)
The extra ports, and built-in wifi, would also be helpful.
It does look awkward, though... not as stylish and cool as my clamshell C860... and it took me 1 whole year to save up for my $1000 Zaurus device and accessories... I don\'t think I would have $2,000 anytime soon...
So... for me it\'s really cool, somewhat laking in some areas, but too expensive. Hopefully in 3 years (when I\'m ready for my next \"Palmtop\") this device will have a grandson which will have the missing pieces and will be cheaper.
...and \"yes\", I would hopefully be running Linux on it.
I would say that the whole Zaurus movement isn\'t as much about these Sharp devices as much as having powerful Linux Palmtops. Most of the work done here would be useful for an x86 Linux Palmtop as well. What does everyone else think?
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I pity those who constantly search for more and more things to buy and never find any joy or contentment, it\'s sad.
I\'m looking for a desktop replacement. My Zaurus might \"barely\" make the cut, but I would have to compromis on a lot of stuff. Yes, I AM looking for a new device, and my SL-C860 IS only a temporary machine (temporary meaning 3 years or so). I am still looking for a desktop replacement without compromises...
I\'m still looking for OpenOffice in my Palm...
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This is a very interesting discussion indeed, which for me only solidifies in my mind that as far as form factor and features, Sharp is on the right track and has just about everything we are all asking for. If the next generation Zaurus Clamshell integrates all the things we have added externally (more memory, wifi, bluetooth) I think we have a winner.
My desired palmtop specs:
Form Factor: SL-CXXX
Display: 4\" CG Silicon Transflective or 4\" OLED
Internal storage: 256 mb ram and internal 4GB (or higher) microdrive
Ext. expansion: CF and SD
Processor: new Intel x-scale processor, up to 624 mHz (rumored)
Wireless: Built-in 802-11g and Bluetooth
Battery: capable of 8 hours continuous wi-fi use (possibly fuel cell)
Other hardware options: USB host, speaker, built-in microphone, button activated screen rotation
Software: New PIMs comparable with Palm devices, rock solid sync on all platforms
I don\'t think this is asking too much, seeing as much of this is currently available and employed technology. Something on this order would provide many of us the power and flexibility we need in a laptop replacement without a significant increase in size.
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I agree with everything above!
...except 1 thing...
Internal storage: 256 mb ram and internal 4GB (or higher) microdrive
256 MB Ram, yes. 4GB, yes. Microdrive, no. Static Flash, yes. Would you want to have to go and buy another Zaurus just because your internal microdrive has crashed?... otherwise you would have to disect your Zaurus to replace the crashed microdrive manually.
Also, we would need a change in mentality towards the VGA Zauri. If the hardware is a replacement for your laptop, but people still think of it as a PDA, then the desktop apps will never get ported to the Zaurus. ...and the Zaurus would end up only a \"very powerful PDA\" instead of a \"slightly slow laptop\".
Case in point: OpenOffice, Complete Browser, Complete E-mail applications (with Exchange support), etc...
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Actually I have to disagree Tony, I\'d prefer a removable microdrive to flash, my only gripe with the C series is the use of flash memory which will eventually start dying, it\'s the weakest link in the chain. Not an issue for people who look at the Z as a temporary thing as you do, but I want 5-10 years life from mine.
Also you\'re missing the point I made earlier, speed. It does not matter how fast these PC\'s are, they are still too slow for practical usage. Can you boot, click on OpenOffice and wait for it to load within 2 or 3 seconds? No, the Z can do it with HancomWord. It\'s the reason I don\'t use pdaXrom anymore, I don\'t want to wait for things to load, AbiWord was too slow to load. These PC\'s would need 6GHz processors and some kind of hard disk from the Starship Enterprise to work as fast. 20GB HD, nice but would soon fill up with full apps etc. I\'ll never fill the internal storage on my Z in 10 years. A 4GB microdrive on my Z will go MUCH further than it would on a PC equivalent. Big PC applications on a device as small as a Z are just not needed for me, and would be slow and cumbersome to use, I just could not get the practical usage from it.
Anyway, I\'m done on this thread, I\'ve said my peice.
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flash memory ... will eventually start dying
Where did you hear that? Flash memory won\'t die any faster than the CPU of your computer. It\'s a microchip. No moving parts = No wear. Theoretically the movement of the electrons will eventually eat away at inidividual atoms, but I doubt you\'ll notice any problems for a thousand years or so...
You would also still have your CF card to put whatever you want on it.
Also you\'re missing the point I made earlier, speed. It does not matter how fast these PC\'s are, they are still too slow for practical usage. Can you boot, click on OpenOffice and wait for it to load within 2 or 3 seconds? No, the Z can do it with HancomWord.
I agree. Speed IS an issue (I mentioned that as 1 of my 3 wishes above).
These PC\'s would need 6GHz processors and some kind of hard disk from the Starship Enterprise to work as fast.
LOL!!
20GB HD, nice but would soon fill up with full apps etc. I\'ll never fill the internal storage on my Z in 10 years.
You lost me. You would \"soon\" fill up 20 GB, but it would take you 10+ years to fill up 2-4 GB? Isn\'t that backwards? Are you refering to Windows apps being larger? If so: 1) We would have Linux on it, not Windows, 2) Windows is bloated, yes... but not THAT bloated. My Windows machine has: OS (600 MB), and apps (2 GB)... and I have almost everything on it. 20 GB is a lot of space (even for Windows machines). Of course... most people fill up their 20 GB... but it\'s not with OS and Apps... it\'s with digital pictures, videos, files, etc...
Anyway, I\'m done on this thread, I\'ve said my peice.
May the force be with you.
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Actually flash has a finite number of ops before it starts going, its gone 2AM here and I am too knackered to remember the exact details, it\'s about 100,000 erase/write cycles I think. If like me your\'re into heavy use and compiling, swap etc it\'s an issue if you want 10 years from the machine.
The other point where I lost you, I was clumsily trying to say that 20GB would soon fill up, OS and apps would take a chunk, on the Z, all the Qtopia apps I could ever want, even X/Qt and GIMP all fit in the Internal flash with about 50% free (I keep docs etc on CF), therefore I\'d get more use from a 4GB Microdrive-fitted Z than one of them XP boxes.
When is the next episode of the Linux League coming?
May the Farce be with you too :-)
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If you continuously log one line of text every second to file on a flash storage device without wear levelling it will die in a matter of days (or hours if it\'s a s*nd*sk). Microdrives don\'t have this problem.
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I just have a moral and ideological objection to anything Windows.
Without walls, nobody would need windows.
Without fences, nobody would need Gates.
I find it interesting that QDOS, which Gates & Co bought from Seattle Computing, was a blatent piracy of CPM-86. So blatent that Digital was even still included in parts of the code.
Gates has been a bully, a cheat and a liar from the very beginning. But I have no problem at all with people *using* Micro$oft products .... just so long as they don\'t PAY for them.
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Besides -
\"Zaurus has competition from Windows?!?\"
Negatory, Rory.
Zaurus is *hardware*. Wind-Hozed is *software*.
LINUX has competition from Windows?!? IOTTMCO, amigo!
How many Linux programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
As many as you want; they\'re all virtual anyhow.
How many OS/2 programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
Its a device driver problem. Contact the manufactorer.
How many Wind-Hozed programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
None. Its their new standard.
Or maybe they\'ll change it in a future version. Who knows.
Someone once told me that the biggest problem with Micro$oft was their address.
One Micro$oft Way.
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I just have a moral and ideological objection to anything Windows.
Without walls, nobody would need windows.
Without fences, nobody would need Gates.
I find it interesting that QDOS, which Gates & Co bought from Seattle Computing, was a blatent piracy of CPM-86. So blatent that Digital was even still included in parts of the code.
Gates has been a bully, a cheat and a liar from the very beginning. But I have no problem at all with people *using* Micro$oft products .... just so long as they don\'t PAY for them.
I agree 100%. Have you ever seen the study where it shows that it\'s nearly impossible to be legal with all the ms licensing ... and on top of that, most pcs have 2 or 3 licenses purchsed for them simply because of all the confusing and forced feeding of the ms system?
ms is awesome.... when it\'s free.
oh, and I\'m not talking \"free\" where universities have been forced into buying licenses for all students and where that cost is passed on to the students.
I\'m talking about if someone sends you some ms crap format, and you can\'t read it -- and your work buys some ms product so you can ... maybe one day companies will wake up and see just how much money they\'re wasting.
Scott
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I\'m feeling bitter ;-)
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Actually flash has a finite number of ops before it starts going, its gone 2AM here and I am too knackered to remember the exact details, it\'s about 100,000 erase/write cycles I think. If like me your\'re into heavy use and compiling, swap etc it\'s an issue if you want 10 years from the machine.
That sounds contrary to what I remember reading on the subject. Do you have any links or documentation on that
When is the next episode of the Linux League coming?
I\'ll have to put one together sometime soon. It will likely be in the new ZUG newsletter coming out in a few weeks. fun fun...
If you continuously log one line of text every second to file on a flash storage device without wear levelling it will die in a matter of days (or hours if it\'s a s*nd*sk). Microdrives don\'t have this problem.
Has the whole world gone mad? Microchips die faster than harddrives with moving parts?!? Does anyone have a link to a recent reputable source on this subject? (It needs to be something recent... because the witch doctor scientists from 10 years ago said many things that we now know just aren\'t true). One of my friends used to work at a Microchip plant in North Carolina, USA, and he knew all of the ins and outs in regards to these chips. He had never heard about microchips (flash or otherwise) dying out over time.
Has anyone actually had their Flash memory die on them (after it was working fine for a while), without the presence of smoke? On the other hand, how many people have had their harddrives die? My harddrives usually die about 3-4 years after I buy them. ...my flash cards date back to 6+ years ago without any problems...
Without walls, nobody would need windows.
Without fences, nobody would need Gates.
Wow! You should sell posters with that on it!
Someone once told me that the biggest problem with Micro$oft was their address.
One Micro$oft Way.
Ha Ha Ha!! That\'s true. \"Microsoft Campus\" is actually on a street called \"Microsoft Way\". Bill Gates works in building 8, or \"8 Microsoft Way\". \"1 Microsoft Way\" IS one of the 10 main buildings, but I don\'t remember what it does.
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Ha Ha Ha!! That\'s true. \"Microsoft Campus\" is actually on a street called \"Microsoft Way\". Bill Gates works in building 8, or \"8 Microsoft Way\". \"1 Microsoft Way\" IS one of the 10 main buildings, but I don\'t remember what it does.
It\'s probably used for hatching plans on world domination or something foul, I\'ve heard they worship a calf and do blood sacrifices there.
As for the flash thing, there are some threads or mentions within threads on this site, I\'ve asked about it before, or do a Google on it, I was just working from memory. But I\'ve heard something similar to what Zazz says. I\'ve had a 16MB MMC die, don\'t know what from but I used it soley for swap on my old 5500 for about a year with severely heavy use.
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TonyOlsen wrote:
Ha Ha Ha!! That\'s true. \"Microsoft Campus\" is actually on a street called \"Microsoft Way\". Bill Gates works in building 8, or \"8 Microsoft Way\". \"1 Microsoft Way\" IS one of the 10 main buildings, but I don\'t remember what it does.
It\'s probably used for hatching plans on world domination or something foul, I\'ve heard they worship a calf and do blood sacrifices there.
No no no... you\'re thinking about building 3... Building 1 was where they kidnapped and tortured prominant members of competing companies.
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That sounds contrary to what I remember reading on the subject. Do you have any links or documentation on that
Has the whole world gone mad? Microchips die faster than harddrives with moving parts?!? Does anyone have a link to a recent reputable source on this subject? (It needs to be something recent... because the witch doctor scientists from 10 years ago said many things that we now know just aren\'t true)..
Google \"flash memory life\" english & in past 3 months got 1,480,000 hits and about 2nd was:
Using Flash Memory in Embedded Applications - Life-time
http://www.esacademy.com/faq/docs/flash/lifetime.htm (http://www.esacademy.com/faq/docs/flash/lifetime.htm)
\"Flash Life-Time
Most Flash memories only guarantee a limited number of erase and re-write cycles. Typical values are guaranteed cycles of 10,000 times. Most parts will work far longer - it\'s just not guaranteed. So if your application counts on it - don\'t design it to do more than the maximum numbers of erase cycles over the entire lifetime of the product.\"
Lots of other refs to same info more or less.
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I\'ve also been told be a few people that have worked a lot with flash memory that CF cards, in particular, are good for about 100,000 write cycles. Of course, that was 3 or 4 years ago and CF cards could be much better now.
Concerning the OQO device, I did contact them about 2yrs ago when I first saw the thing advertised and asked if it would run Linux. They said they were very interested in hiring Linux driver developers or would be open to offering NDA\'s to people willing to develop drivers.
If I could run Linux on it, I might be willing to buy one off eBay about a year after they are released. No way would I pay $1500-$2000 for a handheld computer... not unless it came with a decent docking station so it could truly replace my desktop.
I\'m hoping Apple comes through and comes out with a PDA. Since all my machines now run Mac OS X, it would be great to have something the size of the C series Zaurus with builtin firewire/USB, wifi/bt, mini-iPod HDD, and pocket versions of iPhoto, Quicktime, iTunes, addressbook, calendar, etc. While on my recent vacation to Florida, I would\'ve killed for such a device so we could unload photos from our digital camera and even movies from our camcorder and preview the contents.
But, I\'m not holding my breath for a true Apple PDA (most likely, the 4th Gen iPod will just add a few more PDA-like features). Instead, I plan on working on some Zaurus-model-indifferent software for syncing with OS X\'s PIM software and I\'ll save my pennies for a clamshell Zaurus to-be-released with builtin wifi/bluetooth.
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The OQO prototype has appeared at WinHEC and it can be attached to a docking station and docked to be used as a standard desktop. I\'m pretty impressed with their cable with dongles for firewire, USB 1.1 and a standard VGA output for hookup to projectors
Now if someone ports the entire thing to Linux, I\'ll drop my C760 and buy one immidiately man! 256 Meg of RAM might not be enough to give a good Win XP experience but I\'m sure that a properly setup Linux machine would run really sweet on it. Already Debian and pdaXrom runs so well on the C760 and thats with lower specs.
Check it out!
http://www.oqo.com (http://www.oqo.com)
http://news.com.com/1606-2-5222650.html (http://news.com.com/1606-2-5222650.html)
Concerning the OQO device, I did contact them about 2yrs ago when I first saw the thing advertised and asked if it would run Linux. They said they were very interested in hiring Linux driver developers or would be open to offering NDA\'s to people willing to develop drivers.
If I could run Linux on it, I might be willing to buy one off eBay about a year after they are released. No way would I pay $1500-$2000 for a handheld computer... not unless it came with a decent docking station so it could truly replace my desktop.
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Hey Scott, P_E & all you other folks who love to hate the Gates! A little bit stale news but still, *this* should be worth watching the reactions (G).
Check out
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/12/04/1318...2.shtml?tid=109 (http://slashdot.org/articles/03/12/04/1318212.shtml?tid=109)
\"Microsoft to Charge for FAT File System\"
<< pario writes \"According to Microsoft, the Redmond company is going to charge a license fee for any product that is formatted in FAT by the manufacturer. Any manufacturer of compact flash memory cards or digital cameras may end up paying Microsoft as much as $250,000 for the use of the file format. The FAT File System is covered by several US patents.\" >>
hehehehehe Let the GAMES *begin*!
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Where did you hear that? Flash memory won\'t die any faster than the CPU of your computer. It\'s a microchip. No moving parts = No wear. Theoretically the movement of the electrons will eventually eat away at inidividual atoms, but I doubt you\'ll notice any problems for a thousand years or so...
It took me a bit, but here is an explanation on *why* the cells go bad:
\"SD Memory Card like most of semiconductor cards stores information in a flash memory. The flash memory has memory cells (small rooms) corresponding to each unit (bit) of the information. Each memory cell has an electrode covered by delicate glass (container), where the information is recorded by choosing either to store an electron or not to store. As it is covered by glass with superior insulation performance, no electron stored there should escape under normal conditions, and the information usually remains intact for over 10 years.
Because the electrode storing an electron is covered by glass, it is necessary to put sufficient energy on an electron to enable it to pass through the glass. Similarly, higher voltage is required to take out the electron through the glass, thus causing damage to the glass. This could cause the electron to escape from the container, and eventually the electron could fail to remain within the glass. The service life is said to terminate when re-writing for 100,0000 to 1 million times has been executed. But at this level, an error might occur in the order of one bit of information, and this can be considered to be normal for recording for practical purposes. Such trouble can be prevented by applying a method called error correction technology. Execution of 100,000 times of re-writing is more than enough to re-write daily 25 times for 10 years, so in a practical sense it would be safe to say it is trouble-free for such duration.\"
http://www.sdcard.com/b2b/TextPage.asp?Page=8 (http://www.sdcard.com/b2b/TextPage.asp?Page=8)
The 100,000 number is for NOR technology. NAND gets 1 to 2 million erase cycles before it dies.
How\'s that for off-topic?
John
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Hey Scott, P_E & all you other folks who love to hate the Gates! A little bit stale news but still, *this* should be worth watching the reactions (G).
Check out
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/12/04/1318...2.shtml?tid=109 (http://slashdot.org/articles/03/12/04/1318212.shtml?tid=109)
\"Microsoft to Charge for FAT File System\"
<< pario writes \"According to Microsoft, the Redmond company is going to charge a license fee for any product that is formatted in FAT by the manufacturer. Any manufacturer of compact flash memory cards or digital cameras may end up paying Microsoft as much as $250,000 for the use of the file format. The FAT File System is covered by several US patents.\" >>
hehehehehe Let the GAMES *begin*!
grrrrr...
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Foul abominations, the b*stard son of a thousand devils!!
I flob from on high over all MS products, they are evil, evil! I\'d have ol\' Billy Boy Gates, flayed alive and use his skin as a standard to be paraded during war! Everyone who ever bought a MS product should be given an apology and his money given to the poor. I\'m gonna go and lay down.... It\'s a hot day and my temper has gone.
:evil:
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:twisted: Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan (http://bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html) :twisted:
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Microsoft IS shaitan! Whispering sweet tempatations, I\'m glad that this thread which was a pro-XP device one has turned into MS bashing, not enough of it! Time for Flame Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope.
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I\'m glad that this thread which was a pro-XP device one has turned into MS bashing, not enough of it! Time for Flame Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope.
\"My work here is done.\"
Zauriini are once more united! Cry \"Havoc\" & let loose the dogs of jihad!
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http://www.sdcard.com/b2b/TextPage.asp?Page=8 (http://www.sdcard.com/b2b/TextPage.asp?Page=8)
Wow! After reading that article I now know to avoid SD Audio player like the plague!! YIKES!
waalkman, Thanks for the explanation. It makes more sense now!
I\'m glad that this thread which was a pro-XP device one has turned into MS bashing, not enough of it!
I don\'t think this thread was ever about the good in WindowsXP... the main point was \"Wow! Look at this new hardware!\"... I\'m sure most (if not all) were think \"Wow! Look at this new (Linux enabled) hardware!\"
Time for Flame Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope.
LOL! I agree!
OpenSource is the only real friend. (Almost) everything else serves money and hence will eventually betray you.