OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: BD iiiiii on July 23, 2004, 03:49:22 pm
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Hi
I'm a real newbie here (unlike some 'newbies who talk about ipk/dev/bin/usr stuff that I totally do not have a clue what they're talking about). My question is simple but I have searched from the beginning of this NewbieIssues forum to here and can't seem to get a grasp on it.
Namely; If Sharp has the latest "SL-5500 v3 Zaurus OS and Synchronization Upgrade" what is the deal with ROM - OpenZaurus - Operating System - Putty SSH - zmame binary file -CACKO/CROW - Opie - Kernel - Pre1 - cross compiler - gunzip kismet-zaurus-arm-2.4.6.tar.gz - aaaaaaahhhh.........
I am so lost!! What in the world does all this mean? Do you need one before the other? Is ROM seperate from, say, OZ? Is OZ an OS a ROM or both? Does flashing ROM mean reinstalling the operating system? Do you have to be careful to match up ROMs with everthing else you've got on your Zaurus? People say you need a CF card to do an upgrade but Sharp instructions say just do it with the Dock. eh? I must be a real bozo. I'm not getting any of this.
I have used DOS from v2.11 to v6.0 and Windows from v2.0 to WinXP Pro spanning 20 years. I program in BASIC (VB6 currently).
I don't have my Zaurus yet, but I'm beginning to think I will go nuts trying to get it to work.
Setup for this post:
Sharp Zaurus SL-5500, new from an online dealer (yet to arrive).
Whatever software/firmware that comes with it.
Want to upgrade to "v3 Zaurus OS and Synchronization Upgrade" from the Sharp site when I get the Zaurus, but am clueless as to whether this is a one-way street, no turning back kind of thing - or what?
Thanks brave sole(s)
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Hello & welcome. Don't feel alone in being confused (G).
First -
<< My question is simple >>
Nope. Questions - plural. MANY questions in your post. Keep this in mind.
<< I am so lost!! What in the world does all this mean? >>
Remember trying to learn a new language? Same thing. Words. Jargon. Start by searching on *one* of your key words then reading the threads that come up. Don't even attempt to understand it all at once. Let it work in the back brain as you read.
<< People say you need a CF card to do an upgrade but Sharp instructions say just do it with the Dock. eh? >>
Take this for an example. If you have read the fora a while then you should have noticed that there are several different types of Zaurus. The clamshell types (C700, C750, C860) do not HAVE docking stations. So they usually flash upgrade the system from a card (CF or SD). Once you have that bit of data firmly in mind, it starts to become obvious that these apparent contradictions (in this case) are due to folks using one term (Zaurus) for different hardware.
<< I must be a real bozo. I'm not getting any of this. >>
Nope. Just an otherwise experienced computer user at the foot of a new learning curve. Take it slow & simplify your questions. Browse & read the old threads. Give things time to make some sense (G).
ROM
Kernel
IPKG
OZ
Kismet
Don't try to figure EVERYTHING out at once. Read the threads related to the terms (even if they don't make sense at first).
Now - take a deep breath, calm your mind & ask the first question (singular, now) that is most on your "want to know" list (G).
We all been there.
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Welcome on board by dediciing on Zaurus.
From your DOS and Windows background, I will recommend you to hold back to upgrade to OZ and all others until you are familiar with Unix operation. My next advice is to gain knowledge in Unix administration and networking skills.
Remember to carry out regular backup, i.e. you need high capacity SD or CF memory card.
Play around with the standard PIM and download freewares that are meant for the original Sharp ROM from http://killefiz.de/zaurus/ (http://killefiz.de/zaurus/).
Pose your question here as newbie, there are a lot of forumers who are willing to guide and help you through.
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I do agree with freizugheit.
For a Win/DOS person (if I may state it like that), you are entering a new world where you have much more choices, and they are confusing.
Don't worry about installing new OSses on your Zaurus, just use it with the OS it comes with: it will suit you very well for quite a long time!!!!!!
Alongside with playing with your Zaurus in its "Factory Settings", you should start to experiment with Linux on a Desktop computer... Use it together with Windows in Dual boot (Linux on a separate partition), or run Linux under VMWare, or use PHAT Linux (is the simplest option for the Linux newbie).
This way you'll get a little feeling what Linux is all about
While experimenting with Linux on a normal PC: if you find out that you really like Linux, and discover that you even like to fiddle around with the "difficult stuff", then you can fully enjoy the Linux capabilities of the Zaurus, and you will automatically try to install every "distribution" you can get your hands on and even make your own if you wish. For now, don't worry about it.
On the other hand, if you discover all that techy stuff is not to your likings, then simply keep the OS you got out of the box and you'll just enjoy the Zaurus as a powerfull and stable organizer.
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Hi to Miami_Bob, and others (freizugheit) and those who have read orig. post but haven't had time to respond yet. (Just found Fraggy's post. Very insightful, thanks!).
M_B, your reply was very thoughtful and helped immensly to calm my fears. Advice from a seasoned 'Uncle' you might say.
As you probably guessed, I left out detailed question specifics in order to give an idea of how confused I was/am. OK, here goes.
The final package that I am hoping for is:
SL-5500
SMC SM2642W Wireless CF
Socket EA2912-325 10/100BaseT/TX CF
Socket MO7000-324 56K Modem CF
Lexar 256MB 12X CF
Kingston 256MB SD
GPS - CF or Serial
Targus PDA IR Universal Keyboard
To perform:
* Wired and wireless browsing of websites (via existing home-based WLAN).
* Keep a searchable db of an existing PIM db ported to the Zaurus via CSV format. (no real need to sync as my PIM db is too valuable to risk corruption).
* GPS map display.
* Some video playback would be nice.
* Manage files (a MS Windows Explorer work-alike).
* Edit/manipulate text (a MS Write/Wordpad work-alike - full blown Word not important).
* Bring over ubiquitous file types like .jpg, .wav, .mpg, .mid, .htm, .ram, .pdf, etc., so as to view/hear them.
* Remote Desktop Connection to my WinXP PC. (gasp! Oh if only I could...).
It was while compiling the above wish-list that I started to notice a giant web of interrelated links all of which, in one way or another, referenced at least one of the following: OpenZaurus, ipk or ipkg, .tgz, .gz, ROM, kernel, mount, and so on.
Now I am not asking anyone to lead me by the hand and explain any of this. I just have an intense nagging premonition. That the foundation makes the building. That if I choose typeX ROM, or typeY OS, or typeZ software suite, I'll render my ability to cross-over to another type, later on, a sure-fire fiasco. One where I'll exclaim "uh-oh, I should have gone with xyz instead, because now I have to completely start over and get everything working again from square one" (feeling of butterflies begins in stomach).
Seriously. Are there predictable forks in the road, where a decision is later found to be "good" or "bad". Or am I being way too intimidated?
Thank you for your kind advice.
p.s. Fraggy went a long way in explaining the overall tenor that my approach should adhere to. Many thanks Fraggy.
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Have you looked at
http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php...20the%20SL-5x00 (http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpWiki&file=index&pagename=Available%20ROMs%20for%20the%20SL-5x00)
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First of all read this http://www.lysator.liu.se/~forsberg/linux/ (http://www.lysator.liu.se/~forsberg/linux/) and also this http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/toc.html (http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/toc.html) for a introduction to linux.
Now a couple of quick explanations:
ROM(s) - Basically another operating system for the Zaurus - like on the Windows platform, Windows 98, XP and 2000 - installed by flashing.
Flash/Reflash - to install a new ROM on the Zaurus. Most people flash/reflash using a SD/CF card instead of the "docking" reflash that Sharp offers. Also the Clamshell models (C7x0 and C8x0 doesn't have a docking station).
IPKG - A program used to pack new programs - like a windows installer program - think of the IPKG program like the "Control panel->Add or remove programs" from windows. It often also refered to as the Package manager. A large program collection can be found on http://killefiz.de/zaurus/ (http://killefiz.de/zaurus/)
Filename.ipkg - a file that can be "read" into the IPKG and installed, instead of the new program packages on Zaurus can "started" (like running installer.exe on windows) - they can be opened used IPKG and letting the IPKG installer manager them
Filename.tar.gz - a "packaged" file - similar to filename.zip for the Windows - these files are normal used for files that can just be copied to the zaurus and run without the need for IPKG. Filename.tar.gz is the "standard" packing format for Linux and therefore many things made on Linux are packed in that format. WinZip on windows can open these files so you can look inside them (Actually the Filename.ipkg files are also files packed as tar.gz - but that just to confuse you :-)
OpenZaurus(OZ) is a whole "new" operating system(ROM) very similiar in feel & look to the default Sharp ROM - the OZ system of has alot of improvements above the default Sharp ROM but until you get a litte more experienced you should probally stick with the one that comes preinstalled on the Zaurus.
Kismet - a tool for "sniffing" wireless network traffic and find open wireless networks - not needed for any of the things you list.
Kernel - kinda hard to explain, think of it MS-DOS that lies under Windows - of course not as "simple" as that. The kernel is the "core" part of the system and everything else is "built" on top of it.
To perform:
* Wired and wireless browsing of websites (via existing home-based WLAN).
* Keep a searchable db of an existing PIM db ported to the Zaurus via CSV format. (no real need to sync as my PIM db is too valuable to risk corruption).
* GPS map display.
* Some video playback would be nice.
* Manage files (a MS Windows Explorer work-alike).
* Edit/manipulate text (a MS Write/Wordpad work-alike - full blown Word not important).
* Bring over ubiquitous file types like .jpg, .wav, .mpg, .mid, .htm, .ram, .pdf, etc., so as to view/hear them.
* Remote Desktop Connection to my WinXP PC. (gasp! Oh if only I could...).
The software/rom/operating system that comes preinstalled with the 5500 can do most of this with some addionational software installed (read above under IPKG) - most the "extra software" can be found on http://killefiz.de/zaurus/ (http://killefiz.de/zaurus/)
The following is not included in the Sharp Default:
* Keep a searchable db of an existing PIM db ported to the Zaurus via CSV format. (no real need to sync as my PIM db is too valuable to risk corruption).
- Don't think there is an export CSV function.
* GPS map display.
- Search killefiz
* Some video playback would be nice.
- Sharp defaults media player isn't the best on the market - i think the best one for the Zaurus 5500 is http://drzvideo.palmpalm.com/ (http://drzvideo.palmpalm.com/)
* Bring over ubiquitous file types like .jpg, .wav, .mpg, .mid, .htm, .ram, .pdf, etc., so as to view/hear them.
- http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=1228 (http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=1228) , http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=1129 (http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=1129)
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It's me, newbie again.
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Adding a note of thanks here to Laze for your really helpful reply. The compendium of terms and explanations is beautiful. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will make great use of it. Running head-on into Linux from Windows is jarring. Some things are familiar though, like kernel. The thing that is most confusing is "ROM" in the Zaurus sense, and "ROM" in the PC sense. PC ROM is what holds the BIOS and structures it (handles all motherboard parameters). On the PC, ROM is not really related to the OS, e.g. you can put many types of Operating Systems on a PC and the ROM doesn't change. I see now that on the Zaurus the OS is part of the ROM, like on the first PC - the Radio Shack TRS-80, and also the Commodore PET (right? ). The question below was written before Laze's reply but I'll leave it in.
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Thanks Guest, for your link.
Question:
The new **SL-5500 v3 Zaurus OS and Synchronization Upgrade** (AKA v3 upgrade) at www.myzaurus.com (http://www.myzaurus.com/ROMupdate5.asp) seems to be an All-In-One package that has many enhancements to the standard SL5500 software plus the latest ROM. If that is correct, do I need to deal with any of the FlashROM update sequence as spelled out at > http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php...ing%20The%20ROM (http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpWiki&file=index&pagename=Upgrading%20The%20ROM)
Thanks for your guidance.
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Actually the term ROM is wrong/misleading - a ROM (read only memory) is normally (as you state) a kinda BIOS or Chipset settings (like the Amiga ROM or similar) - the term has be misused for many different things, like most people say they have many ROMs for UAE - they actually mean disc images (ADF) and similar misuses has been seen.
Actually the ROM term on the Zaurus just covers "everything included to update" your system file. For example the "ROM" download for our ROM pdaXrom contains 3 files that need to flashed into. So the ROM term is wrong - you don't referer to the different Linux distros as ROMs. The ROM is everything the developers decide to include but normally its a different kernel and GUI.
The new **SL-5500 v3 Zaurus OS and Synchronization Upgrade** (AKA v3 upgrade) at www.myzaurus.com seems to be an All-In-One package that has many enhancements to the standard SL5500 software plus the latest ROM. If that is correct, do I need to deal with any of the FlashROM update sequence as spelled out at > http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php...ing%20The%20ROM (http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php...ing%20The%20ROM)
Just follow the http://www.myzaurus.com/ROMupdate5.asp (http://www.myzaurus.com/ROMupdate5.asp) and don't think about anything else - the ROM found there is currently the newest ROM for the 5500 and many things have been fixed and improved. After a couple of months you will probally be "interested" in flashing another ROM just for the kicks and fun of seeing what they look like :-) and later you are going to be looking for a clamshell model and ... then the vicous circle continues and the next thing you know everytime you see someone running Windows you yell "STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,STUPID MICROSOFT!!!! Let me show you how to install Linux..."
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Remote Desktop Connection to my WinXP PC. (gasp! Oh if only I could...)
You can.
Search for rdesktop (and qtrdesktop I think), it certainly works on OZ, it is also supposed to work on the Sharp ROMs. For OZ the necessary files are all in the feed.
Si
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I think you will go crazy.
Question -- have you thought about a wince pda? why try a linux pda?
if you want to try a linux pda, perhaps try linux first -- vmware + redhat, etc.
The links and info Laze gave are pretty good -- but *nothing* compares to actually
doing it.
vmware is one of the safest ways to play with different operating sytems. You have
virtually no way to hurt things (pun intended).
Scott
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I went with SL-5500 because of 1) Price, and 2) Built-in keyboard. I thought (note past tense) that Linux had more in common as to file/disk management syntax with Microsoft, and that I'd see little difference in the command line "front end". Not
Many thanks to Laze (very pithy stuff), lardman (I'll try the RDC and leave a post as to outcome), and Scott.
I can now set forth boldly... says he
Damm the torpedos, Linux, here I come. Splattt.
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You're welcome, BD iiiiii
I don't have the time neither to read the many new posts, neither to give an answer to all things BD iiiiii wants to perform, but I'd like to give a quick answer on * Remote Desktop Connection to my WinXP PC. (gasp! Oh if only I could...).
Not only is this possible, but for this you have different possibilities... And both ways as a matter of fact: you can remote control your Zaurus from your PC and vice versa.
I would use VNC (Virtual Network Computing) as I have the most experience with it (and it is platform independent, so you can remote * ANY * computer system you like), but there are also other apps with similar functionality.
VNC uses TCP/IP, so you can even remote over the internet, although performance is better when the connection is local of course.
(as a matter of fact, it performs just great over LAN!!!!)
I'll read the posts more in detail later and give more details...
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I don't have the time neither to read the many new posts, neither to give an answer to all things BD iiiiii wants to perform, but I'd like to give a quick answer on
QUOTE
* Remote Desktop Connection to my WinXP PC. (gasp! Oh if only I could...).
Not only is this possible, but for this you have different possibilities... And both ways as a matter of fact: you can remote control your Zaurus from your PC and vice versa.
I would use VNC (Virtual Network Computing) as I have the most experience with it (and it is platform independent, so you can remote * ANY * computer system you like), but there are also other apps with similar functionality.
VNC uses TCP/IP, so you can even remote over the internet, although performance is better when the connection is local of course.
(as a matter of fact, it performs just great over LAN!!!!)
VNC certainly works well, but rdesktop also works and requires no (extra) software on your XP machine - it used the remote desktop spftware which is built in.
I think you will go crazy.
Question -- have you thought about a wince pda? why try a linux pda?
if you want to try a linux pda, perhaps try linux first -- vmware + redhat, etc.
I had never used Linux before buying my 5500 (bar a bit of FORTRAN in UNIX) - it's a great motivator to learn if nothing else. I installed Mandrake as a dual boot on my PC when I got my Z to try and learn some more. Never looked back ;-)
Si
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DB iiiiii
Since you have been using computers a while, you have certainly heard this mantra before, but it still doesn't hurt repeating -
BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP!
Particularly before you get into "flash frenzy" or trying funky applications. Trust me on this one! (G)
For backups, a suitable storage card (& reader for your desktop - laptop) is useful.
I don't have experience with the 5x00 series, but the C860 ALWAYS finds some way to remind me to backup frequently when I forget (G).
BTW - I had dabbled with Linux for some time but never had a real motivation to LEARN it till I got my C860 early this year. You should get some good basic reference books on the topic.
In some ways, Linux resembles DOS & its descendents. LS instead of DIR, CLEAR instead of CLS, so forth. In other ways, very different. No drive letters, rather *devices* that can be dynamically mounted & unmounted, takes a bit to adjust to.
Different Linux distributions have subtle differences, one from another. Then, the Zs themselves have jargon & odd quirks all their own.
You have a lot of experience to draw on here in the ZUG. Don't be hesitant to ask questions. Be as specific as you can about hardware & software. Its hard to answer a query when the person doesn't say which type of Z they are talking about, or what OS they are running under, or .... you get the picture (G).
However, once you have your Z in hand, you will enjoy the hell out of the learning, I'll bet!
As far as "a seasoned uncle", well, I can confess to being experienced in several flavors of CPM, being able to code 8080 & Z80 assembler, having made a disk drive walk off a table, soldered discrete components, set off the halon, dropped card decks & patching paper tape. Among other numerous sins of youth (G). Further deponent sayeth naught. (G)
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Bob
Many kernels of wisdom in all that you say. (pun just appeared, honest)
THANKS Uncle Bob!!
Remember all the neat things we could do on the original TRS-80 - with 4K of memory!
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VNC certainly works well, but rdesktop also works and requires no (extra) software on your XP machine - it used the remote desktop spftware which is built in.
True, but the very big advantage of VNC is that you don't need any extra software for the CLIENT: you just need a java enabled web browser, then enter the adress http://remotecomputer_ip_adress:5800 (http://remotecomputer_ip_adress:5800) and voila! You have remote control over the machine in your netscape / IE / Whatever java browser you wish
This means you can access your remote machine from any place in the world by just entering a cybercafe! No need to install software (now that's what we call a really thin client, haha.)
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I do not feel the definition of ROM has been accurately stated. As far as I can tell, a ROM is an image/bundle of the OS. The part that I don't think is conveyed too well is that you can have the sharp rom and then you can have roms that are just variations of the sharp rom (tkc and cacko). I'd recommend one of those roms because they are improved upon the original sharp rom (stability, features and looks/feel). My sister does not know anything about linux and yet she is having a blast with the 5500 (tkc v1).
OpenZaurus *is* different from the original sharp rom as it was developed independently, but there is some compatibility between them. I would say that the diff between OZ and the sharp rom is closer to the diff between win95 and NT analogy.
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To come back on the subject of experimenting with Linux on a PC first, without the need to mess around with multiple partitions and stuff like that, VPC and VMWare are indeed 2 nice "emulators" which allow you to experiment without "breaking" anything. I would definately advise VMWare or VPC, but I recently found another solution that I really liked: the DemoLinuxCD: http://www.demolinux.org (http://www.demolinux.org)
This is a distribution with a Live File system that runs entirely from CD-Rom!!! No need to install, just put in the CD, boot and that's it!!!!! Of course performance is sub-optimal (but very acceptable!), because CD-Rom access is pretty slow, but it has all the stuff you need (it supports LAN/Internet, netscape, windows manager (kde, gnome or wvm), and a lots of apps...) except you can't install new apps or modify configs.
DemoLinux does offers the possibility to use some temporary space on your HDD (100Mb) to speed up performance, store swap and config files, so in a limited way it does allow you to "fool around" a bit and at least to save your settings. But surely it will give you a nice first impression of Linux, without having to install anything!!!!!!!
(also if you would install Redhat Linux 9 or Debian 3 for the first time you may be overwhelmed with the HUGE number of applications you may choose from!!!! DemoLinux comes preconfigured with a wide number of applications, including Star Office to keep in touch with the non-linux world (like Open Office, this Office suite is compatible with M$ word, Excell, etc..)
For me this is great, because new distributions were too bloaty for my Toshiba 233Mhz 96Mb laptop with 5Mb HD space and this distro runs just fine (as a matter of fact I've got a slightly adapted distro for Zaurus development!!!). Cool!
And given the fact that I don't have the time to find out how to finetune a distro to "unbloat" it (I'm not a newby, but certainly not a veteran), this bootable distro came as a present from heaven for me
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Knoppix would be a good one to try too. A friend is using a Knoppix CD to run Linux and experiment and his 5500 to store the documents on, it can act like a USB drive with a little 'USB Storage' app which was backported from the 860, it's probably here on ZUG. Also you can use Knoppix (as I did) to install a full Debian on your hard drive one day, if you want.
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Fraggy.
To come back on the subject of experimenting with Linux on a PC first, without the need to mess around with multiple partitions and stuff like that, VPC and VMWare are indeed 2 nice "emulators" which allow you to experiment without "breaking" anything. I would definately advise VMWare or VPC, but I recently found another solution that I really liked: the DemoLinuxCD: http://www.demolinux.org (http://www.demolinux.org)
Thanks. That is a lot of info, so I'll take some time to chew on it. (even more challenging is what padishah_emperor says - way above my head I'm afraid.)
, but the very big advantage of VNC is that you don't need any extra software for the CLIENT: you just need a java enabled web browser, then enter the adress http://remotecomputer_ip_adress:5800 (http://remotecomputer_ip_adress:5800) and voila! You have remote control over the machine in your netscape / IE / Whatever java browser you wish
You've really got me psyched about this one. I would like to hear/learn more. Do you have any recommendations for sites/more details, or would you mind posting anything here?
I definitely like the idea of utilizing the built in Windows RDC (since all my home PCs use that extensively). On the other hand, the notion of not having to load anything extra onto the client (as you said) is even more appealing.
From wish-list to possibility . wow!
p.s. I had originally played down the idea of accessing a PC from a Z. This forum seemed to have some really die hard Linux people and I didn't want to get on their nerves asking to use my Z just to get to a Win screen - hehe. I guess there's more ac-dc's here than I thought. Actually, I'm starting to get the Linux bug already, and I havn't even gotten my Z yet! See ya.
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even more challenging is what padishah_emperor says - way above my head I'm afraid
You'll get there, if you want to make the effort, and you're doing it now by asking these questions, you'll find lots of help and support from us, in time, you can learn all this stuff - it's all good, take your time, ask questions, use us as a sounding board or to even rant, play and enjoy the process. A year from now, you'll know more than you do today and enrich yourself in the process.
Take care..
-Francis
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You've really got me psyched about this one. I would like to hear/learn more. Do you have any recommendations for sites/more details, or would you mind posting anything here?
I definitely like the idea of utilizing the built in Windows RDC (since all my home PCs use that extensively). On the other hand, the notion of not having to load anything extra onto the client (as you said) is even more appealing.
You're not the only one who wants to achieve that kind of stuff, it's actually quite common for network administrators, especially in MIXED network environments.
VNC: http://www.realvnc.com/ (http://www.realvnc.com/) (NB: I believe you even have commercial "clones" of VNC that support both the VNC as well as the RDC protocol, but for that you need to look elsewhere (just google around!)).
BTW: I can imagine you were a bit affraid to get flamed for this (this being a Linux place), but many of us (if not all) are still connected to the windows world.
Open Source is, first of all, a place of freedom! If you really like Micro$oft, then you are free to do so, although in general this is due to the fact of a lack of experience and knowledge of alternatives (because once you realise the diversity, abundancy and quality that the non-microsoft world has to offer, you start to wonder why the heck people are still using M$ appz and even depend (!) on them...)
I've been "nursed" in an academic environment: where software developers were working in a mixed environment, where Linux, Unix, JavaOS and many other exotic OSses were living together in peace with Windows (95/98/NT)... Ahum... That is to say: all exotic and non-Micro$oft systems were living in peace together, but Micro$oft was always a troublemaker, breaking the rules, breaching security and bending the standards (Micro$oft Java, Micro$oft Kerberus, Micro$oft HTML???? Having to send your CV as a MS Word *.doc? Puke!!!!)... (And I'm not even touching the "buggy" part).
So you can immagine that even in a very tolerant world irritation grows (as a matter of fact, in places where tolerance rules, intolerance is not appreciated and even fiercely hated!).
Micro$oft does not want a free world. If you do not want to live in a free world, we respect that choice, but we hate it when the lack of freedom is pushed onto us... Luckily the world is now quickly changing, but lemme just say this before "antibashers" shout at me: "but you do have a choice!" well this is not entirely true, because MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND! Companies with a lot of money are powerfull enough to bend the law and can easily manipulate public opinions by repeating lies so many times that (unknowing) people start to believe them: I have my own Webdesign company, and I have nothing against Windows Server + IIS + ASP + MS SQL but it's sometimes amazing how hard it is to convince a client that Linux + Apache + PHP and PostgreSQL are not only cheaper but also are better.
Dictators know that the first thing they must control is the press, ruling out the dicidents by either shutting them up, or just shouting much louder... M$ still successfully applies that strategy, except that the small voice of the dissidents is growing louder, slowly but surely...
But eh, sorry I get a bit carried away, hehe, we don't want to start a M$ bashing thread here.
It's just that I hate M$'ses untolerance and greed for power so much, that's all, and yet there's stuff I do like about Windoze, especially as a game platform it kicks arse and DOS still rulez for abandonwarez (retro gaming )
But eh... with some nice tools you can still run M$ Software on an otherwise 100% Linux machine: with VMWare you can run all full blown Windoze versions on your Linux as a very well performing virtual machine. From good old DOS to even WinXP Enterprise Server with Clustering!!!!! (VMware also allows more exotic OSses to be run in a virtual machine, like Sco Unix, BeOS (basically any OS that runs on an Intel CPU...). You can even run more than one virtual machine at the same time on the same PC!
And there is WINE that runs Windows progs under Linux and XWine that runs Windows programs that depend on DirectX technology (3D accelerated games, for example)...
So you can see that Linux is pretty open minded and pretty limitless in possibilities and that's where it gets confusing You'll feel lost (which was your first "complaint"), but again: don't worry in time you'll get more secure. By using VMWare (http://www.vmware.com/), you'll have "best of both worlds" until you are ready to dump your copy of Windows that came with your PC into the waste basket (I'm even authoring Macromedia Director CDs under VMWare!!!), but perhaps I sould try to run it under WINE? lol. (ahum, still need your copy of windows though, to install it in the virtual machine).
Edit: to avoid confusion I'll add the following:
VMWare for Windows (NT/2000/XP) (does not run under Win95/98!!!!) is allows you to run Linux (and other OSses) on a windows machine
VMWare for Linux allows you to run Windows (and other OSses) on a Linux Machine.
VPC for Windows does the same, but also works on Win98 and there is a VPC for Mac! VPC is more suited for gaming because it emulates a directdraw capable videocard. It also uses CPU cycles even when the virtual machine is idle, whereas VMWare is less resource hungry, but emulates a simple vesa videocard... In my opinion VMWare is better suited for "serious work" and VPC for gaming or video intensive appz.
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except you can't install new apps or modify configs.
About DemoLinux, a little correction: it DOES allow you to install new programs, although the space is limited (hopefully in future releases you can choose to reserve more HDD space for that), because right now it uses only 100Mb of your HD space...
NB: as always with Linux: it runs (way) behind with drivers. So if you have extremely new hardware (the latest new gadgets), then some hardware may not be recognized.
This was the case with my onboard network card (I have a ASUS A7N8X motherboard).
Yeah, heard about Knoppix. I'm curious about the knoppix distro, but I don't have much time to experiment with that kinda stuff now... But I'll take a look at it.
BTW: an interesting note on DemoLinux is that they compressed over 1 Gb of applications on a 650Mb CD!!!! It is decompressed on the fly!!!! Wow!
I hope to see more "Live" distros (running from CD) in the future!
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what's wrong with a MS bashing thread? :-> too easy? done before? oh well.
Yes, you can run vmware. Personally, I thought that virtual pc kicked vmware's
core... after 9/11, I had an old NT box that was not on the work domain, at work, as
it was a console to a honkin' old alpha box... so, I loaded up virtual pc and ran my
freebsd on it. alt-return to go full screen, and I had unix (root!) and no windows worries.
It anyone needed the console, they knew to hit alt-rturn and then click on the icon
they needed. Last time I checked, my virtual desktop had been up some 200 days
or so.
vmware, to me, seems buggy, slow... annoying. Yet, now that ms bought
connectix, I refuse to use it -- but, alas, I hear it will be "integrated" with the OS.
*sigh*
Yes, knoppix is ok... but it's also confusing. I highly recomment using a usb memory
stick, etc... otherwise, knoppix is little more than a demo.
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php (http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php)
google for "list of linux live cds" ... first link (almost every time).
The power of unix is that applications conform to your system, your system is
not forced to conform to the next application that you install. ie: no dll hell.
pc people always say "bah, wah! I hate unix, you have to compile"
ah, bah, wah, they don't understand the power that that provides... the stability.
So, yes, it's about freedom and choice. As long as I have a CHOICE, I do
choose. What I do not like is when ms thinks that they have to be the only
os in the world and they try to legislate or make it illegal to not run their shit.
or when you're forced to pay an ms tax... whether when purchasing a machine
or going to a university, etc.
people who use ms and think its the best thing there is, either do not know
better, or are just not that bright. period. I am not saying os is better (in all
cases) -- a lot of it is total sh1t (and abandonware) ... but it's about freedom.
Try to put a title bar off the top of the screen in 'blows... something as simple
as that.
Now, granted, I am a programmer... so I get severly irked when I see the stupid
sh!t that ms does and refuses to address. At least with unix, if it pisses me off
enough, I can fiddle with it. It shouldn't have to be only a choice between these
two, but so far, that's all we have.
So, to get back on topic -- the PDA is linux... and if you never run the terminal
and get to a command line -- you just might not know it's linux other than
you can't load palmos or wince crap on it. On the otherhand, take a look at my
pda: http://zaurus.spy.org/screenshots/scottyelich/pdaXrom/jpg/ (http://zaurus.spy.org/screenshots/scottyelich/pdaXrom/jpg/) -- I can do just
about anything that I can do on my desktop on the PDA. Yes, granted, I'm not
talking about quakeIII or 1024x768 200FPS... I'm talking about surf, read mail,
program, compile, listen to music... and -- the interface is 100% the same!
I learned emacs style keys in the late 80s, and I can use those same keys
today! I learned shell scripting -- and it's valid today... I can actually build on
technology and not worry about (1) product names instead of tech [ie:
active directory instead of ldap and (2) what "embrace and extend" bullsh!t
the company who I'm forced to use has slipped into what I am forced to use
that will break my stuff from the standards that have been set.
A computer is a tool... it should be used as one. You should control it --
it should NOT control you. The next time you're forced to only have one
choice and do it only one way -- think about that.
Scott
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Yeah, bashing on M$ is getting old & boring (even though they more than diserve it.)
Yes, granted, I'm not
talking about quakeIII or 1024x768 200FPS...
Not yet, but heed my word that it is only a matter of time before this happens.
DOOM runs on the Zaurus, Quake 1 runs on it too although slowly... If the engine would be totally rewritten for the Zaurus it would probably run just fine, so there's the power of our freedom!!!!!
I agree it's a tool, but tools get more powerfull each time. Playing Quake is not an "application", but using a Quake engine together with a GPS system in a mobile device might open a whole new world of applications...
So for me, the Zaurus will not only be "just a tool" (of course I will use it's organizer's functionality!) but for me it will also be a "window" to new technologies....
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Yes, you can run vmware. Personally, I thought that virtual pc kicked vmware's core...
Possibly VPC performs much better and is less buggy than VMWare, I dunno... I just don't have much experience with VPC. I played around with VPC a bit with it and I liked it very much, but VPC does not run under Linux
I guess the disadvantage of VMWare would be that it does not run on a Mac?
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what's wrong with a MS bashing thread? :-> too easy? done before? oh well.
LOL
Thanks, Scott. I needed that!
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I notice that the ORIGINAL poster has become very quiet. Perhaps this subject has gotten a bit *technical*, folks? (G)
Don't let 'em intimidate you, BD iiiiii! They don't really MEAN to, they just get carried away (G).
TRS-80? Man, I remember running to the local 7-11 with a box of tubes to use their test station in hopes of getting the d*#$% TV working before game time! (G)
You once upon a time could actually buy quite a nice selection of TUBES at the 7-11s here!!
(G)
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(from Uncle Bob)
TRS-80? Man, I remember running to the local 7-11 with a box of tubes to use their test station in hopes of getting the d*#$% TV working before game time!
You once upon a time could actually buy quite a nice selection of TUBES at the 7-11s here!! (G)
Yeah baby! Standing in front of that big ol' board with its array of different pin hole configurations, and the neat "techie" instructions and labels. Why, it almost took my attention away from the Playboy magazine rack over in the other corner!! ;-) , hey, I said almost.
Don't let 'em intimidate you, BD iiiiii! They don't really MEAN to, they just get carried away (G)
Well, as a matter of fact, I was a little intimidated by the overwhelming contribributions showing up here. I decided to fade back and watch the pros go at it for a while. Very impressive - and I must say, I am learning a lot from the discourse.
Thanks to ALL contributers. Keep it up, please!
Twisk (formerly- BD iiiiii)