OESF Portables Forum

General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: markpmc on August 04, 2004, 09:08:33 am

Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: markpmc on August 04, 2004, 09:08:33 am
Well it's time for me to start bugeting for a new PDA.

Did the A300 flop? I'd really like to see an upgraded model of this thin model.

Any news or rumors on new C Series zauri? I'm looking for built in Wifi w/ bluetooth as an option.

markpmc
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: iamasmith on August 04, 2004, 10:08:15 am
I think this is where the SL-6000 comes in, you don't get the clamshell but you get the option of having WIFI and Bluetooth I believe, if you have deep (and BIG   pockets).

Not sure if SHARP will cram this into the SL-C series, it doesn't need it. Simply plug a card in to use it and feel smug that they aren't wasting space in your pocket with a case large enough to hold all that hardware that you don't use all the time.

Personally I like the minimalist approach + once you have all your CF cards you can probably use them on a whole range of other devices in the future. I would much rather SHARP stuck with the idea of keeping the SL-C series lean and mean and if they do cram anything else in let it be a new accelerator chip or something that's going to improve the overall feel of the device. (BTW: I have nothing to complain about on my SL-C860 here).
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: _Psycho on August 04, 2004, 10:42:46 am
I hope the next version will has as much features as the ipaq 6315 with Wifi, Bluetooth, Gsm, camera 2 mega pixel (like the docomo(sp) phone i saw), voice recorder, 6-8 hours of battery life (the 6315 cpu is a slow omap 185mhz or something).
Put in that a GSP and we have the paradise =P
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: speculatrix on August 05, 2004, 08:10:20 am
At the very least Sharp could put the 6000's screen into the 860, as it's a genuine improvement.

In theory adding bluetooth should be trivial, most bluetooth chipsets cost less than US$10, which would give an 860 a real communications advantage.

If was mobile a lot, I'd want BT over 802.11; however, I'm mainly office bound so wlan would be preferred, but if course it's possible to get usable speeds for tcp/ip over bluetooth. BT would also make it much easier to use an 860 as a VOIP device using a BT headset with a compact flash 802.11 card. BT would also allow adding keyboards, mice, and portable printing.

But, really, an 860 with the screen, BT and 802.11 would get my money *so* quickly.

Oh yeah, and the addition of the USB master function would be essential.

Paul
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Stubear on August 05, 2004, 11:16:13 am
BT isn't too popular in Japan at present. So built in BT is probably a long shot, built in WIFI is more probable.

As the Summer Bonus season is almost over and there have been no announcements by Sharp about a new clam shell model, it seems doubtful that we will see one before Nov/Dec now (when Winter Bonus Season starts) So I don't suggest holding your breath

Stu
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: mussi on August 05, 2004, 12:58:58 pm
I'd prefer to have WiFi as I don't even have Bluetooth enabled devices myself, and frankly, I'm not planning to get some in the near future neither.

802.11b makes more sense as one can use it to surf on the internet and not rely on a cell phone. What would be great, however, is a CF GSM card.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: nathanwms on August 05, 2004, 02:27:36 pm
I'd love to see integrated wifi, BT and even a microdrive; however, all of these can be added now externally.  What I really want is the ability to play a wide variety of video formats at a high frame rate.  The current hardware is the limiting factor and I hope the next clamshell will have a processor or group of processors that will make this happen.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: ashikase on August 05, 2004, 09:03:37 pm
If Sharp does release a new model, my guess is that it will probably be announced at the CEATEC 2004 convention coming up this October - the C700 was revealed at CEATEC 2002.  It looks like my company is sending me to CEATEC again this year, so I will get to find out firsthand

I agree with Stubear about BT - it really isn't very popular here.  I would like to see integrated WiFi, as I really dislike having a card jutting out of my CF slot, but I'm not holding my breath.  Instead, I'm waiting (impatiently) to see if C-Guys come through on their plans to release a Zaurus driver this month for their SD-Link11b card (http://www.c-guys.net/products/sd-link11b.html).

- ashikase
  anpachi, gifu, japan
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: ZDevil on August 05, 2004, 10:48:34 pm
I'd love to see built-in bluetooth, which enables smooth communication among small gadgets like mobile phones, cameras, DVs, headsets and other compmuting devices, in the next model, rather than wifi.

IMHO, the popularity of bluetooth and wifi varies from place to place.  Wifi rocks in Japan and perhaps the US also, despite its still lack of adequate security protection.  Bluetooth is more popular in Europe and in Asia like Hong Kong (where I am staying now).   Please don't get me wrong as I don't mean it to be a flame war again about wifi vs bluetooth.  Afterall this is just a matter of user preference.

Another great sensible move is to have a genuine usb host.  

Dual slot should remain.  Despite the proliferation of new card formats, compact flash still seems to be the best in terms of price, availability and cross-device support.

A built-in camera would be nice.  Many PDAs already have it.  New generation phones get it.  Then why not Z?

Just my 2 zents.  
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: markpmc on August 06, 2004, 11:06:45 am
Quote
CEATEC 2004 convention coming up this October

That's probally as long as I'll be able to hold out. Since I expect my next pda to be in the $600+ range I guess I'll start saving this month.

Thanks,

markpmc
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: mussi on August 06, 2004, 06:03:31 pm
I for my part don't need a camera directly in the PDA (mainly because I prefer to have a real digicam handy), and in my company, it would be a big no-no to carry a PDA with camera around, so we better keep that away.

And I'm slowly willing to pay a few bucks extra to have a cell phone/PDA without built-in camera.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: sylvius on August 07, 2004, 09:53:38 am
The one issue I have with BT is that the security seems really poor. Look at some of the bluejacking/bluesnarfing sites. It's really trivial to hack into BT devices, even ones that are not discoverable. I'm not sure how good I feel about using BT in the middle of NYC, daring people to easily hack in.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Zuber on August 07, 2004, 12:28:16 pm
Bluetooth security on current zaurus units is very good.

Unless you install a fix, most cards seam to be disabled when the unit is suspended. I quite like it that way. Just slip the card out and back in to re-enable.

Back on topic though, I think a built in camera is a bad idea. Too many companies don't allow them on site.

Besides, plenty of camera phones around if it is not a problem.

Now bluetooth for transfer of pics etc. to the z would be useful.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: loopy29 on August 31, 2004, 10:12:18 am
Hi there,

It's been some time since I had been here. I used to own a sl-c750 and was quite fond of it, but at some point I REALLY needed some good PIM apps, which weren't available at the time. So I sold the Z and bought a Palm Tungsten T3. Great PIM apps, really great, but for the rest quite a boring device. The thing I probably liked most about the Z were the immense possibilities. A full shell, new ROMs comping out all the time, ... but no good PIMs. I see a lot has changed now with the advent of PdaX ROM rom and KO/pi, and I'm seriously considering selling the tungsten and getting another sl-cXX device.

However, like probably many others, I feel there hasn't been a "real" significant update for about 2 years since the sl-c700 came out. (The most significant was probably going from 700 to 750, new processor and kernel improvements and all...). So I'm desperately awaiting a succesor that adds some significant features. What I hope for:

*Connectivity with BT AND Wifi built in. Just one of them would be a good start too.
* the screen on the 750 was gorgeous, so no need for improvement there, but if the 6000 transflective screen is better,
* Backlighting for the keys is really important. I used the zaurus a lot while laying in bed with the GF sleeping next to me. No backlights meant frequent typo's.
* I wouldn't mind if the device grew a little (to accomodate the larger screen for instance), but not much.  The 6000 looks way too big to put in your pocket. The sl-c750 was never a problem in that regard.
* Faster processor. PPCs are getting them, so should the Z. This would improve movie playback and emu game playback.
* Nicer materials would be nice to ( cf Sony X505.. or some magnesium alloy)
* Last but not least: A built in HD. They can make devices like the impod mini and even smaller with a 4 or 5 gig HD, so they should be able to put them into the Z. A mp3 player after all also consists of approx the same components. (I know this is a simplification...)
*Don't sacrifice battery life!

(* Camera is NOT necessary. Actually rather not.)

There's my requests. If most of them get implemented, I'd get the new device in a heartbeat for about 700 to 800 euro and I believe so would many others.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: loopy29 on August 31, 2004, 11:00:51 am
Oh, I forgot one more request:

USB host would be very nice. I gues this one shouldn't be too hard seen as they already added it to the 6000. Does anyone know the frequency of past announcements. Isn't it about time for a new one. Maybe at that conference CEATEC? Nobody knows anything more?
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Miami_Bob on September 03, 2004, 01:55:56 am
Built in options are all very well except that, even on standby, they tend to really suck the batteries down. I would much rather have expansion slot options so that I have more control over my battery life.

Have never seen the 6000 screen in real life, but the C860 screen sucks big time in bright light situations no matter what one does to try to compensate. So, depending on battery life again, I might go for that.

And, in case some here DON'T think battery life can be critical, we are JUST being missed by Hurricane Frances now. If my power goes out for a week, my C860 becomes a pretty little brickette on day #2. Where as my old HP200LX would keep giving me phone #s & taking mission critical "to do" notes for about 50 days on a fresh set of AA DuraCells with another set in my pack for replacing THOSE when THEY died. Nuff said??
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: omega on September 03, 2004, 03:08:47 am
Miami_Bob - car battery! ;-)
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: loopy29 on September 03, 2004, 08:22:44 am
Miami_Bob,

Some comments.

Expansion options are off course crucial. However, when I still had my Z (sl-c750) one of the things I disliked was the protrusion the wifi card added. It made it more of a nuisance to type on the keyboard with the wifi card plugged in. Off-course a on/of soft or hardware button should be provided for the built-in wifi.

It would suprise me if a backlight would consume power in standby mode...

Nicer materials don't suck battery power...µ

Many options could be added without sacrificing battery power too much if they are added wisely.

It would raise cost again off course, but I assume that some basic IT features are getting cheaper to manufacture over the course of a few years so that would compensate.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Miami_Bob on September 05, 2004, 02:08:28 am
Quote
Miami_Bob - car battery! ;-)
Welllll. The C860 battery takes hours to full charge. And I recall a former client who, during a power outage, ran his car with the AC on so that he could nap in comfort. He "woke up" wearing a MDCME toe tag. Carbon Monoxide - cause of death.

Besides, when you can't buy gas for about the same period of time that the power is out, you don't run the vehicle unless absolutely needed.

Trust me on these; I'v lived in S FL since about 1957 (G).
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Miami_Bob on September 05, 2004, 02:18:39 am
Quote
Miami_Bob,

Some comments.

Expansion options are off course crucial. However, when I still had my Z (sl-c750) one of the things I disliked was the protrusion the wifi card added. It made it more of a nuisance to type on the keyboard with the wifi card plugged in. Off-course a on/of soft or hardware button should be provided for the built-in wifi.

It would suprise me if a backlight would consume power in standby mode...

Nicer materials don't suck battery power...µ

Many options could be added without sacrificing battery power too much if they are added wisely.

It would raise cost again off course, but I assume that some basic IT features are getting cheaper to manufacture over the course of a few years so that would compensate.
WHen my wi fi card is in, I'm not usually working the keyboard (G). When wi fi is done, the card pops out & is stored. No problem.

I'm over the "double nickel" and have had surgery in both eyes. Got artificial lenses & retinal damages. No backlight & I can't see the C860 display to use the device.

In a more perfect world, on standby internals would use little or no power, but I have found that in real life this is hardly ever the case.

"Without sacrificing battery power TOO much .." (emphasis mine). Each & every add on that I do not need at the moment, sacrifices too much battery power for my liking.

Course, I'm a cranky old hold out who likes his choices his own way (G).

I still say, if I wanted a notebook, I'da bought a notebook (G). My C860 doesn't NEED a DVD burner built in (he said to push the point).
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: loopy29 on September 05, 2004, 05:03:30 am
Quote
WHen my wi fi card is in, I'm not usually working the keyboard (G). When wi fi is done, the card pops out & is stored. No problem.

Carrying essential - and nowadays I consider Wifi essential for any mobile computing device - features as add-ons is a nuisance. They get lost, the take-in extra space and when on the move, e.g. at a conference, I want to travel as light as possible. I NEED Wifi there and it should be built in, even at the expense of battery life...(and I still feel that some features don't eat as much battery as you think when turned off...)

Quote
I'm over the "double nickel" and have had surgery in both eyes. Got artificial lenses & retinal damages. No backlight & I can't see the C860 display to use the device.

I follow you there, I wouldn't wanna live without a screen backlight either. However, I was talking about a keyboard backlight, so you could see the keys in darker conditions. Again, you should be able to easily turn it off. Should help with those artificial lenses & retinal damages.  

BTW, I could live without the built in HD, and OFF COURSE do not need a built in CD  

Concerning battery life, maybe they could use OLED display. I hear it doesn't need backlighting. Should be very interesting. Probably isn't as nice yet as the CG silicon screen...
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: soycap on September 05, 2004, 05:31:26 pm
I did the following keyboard light mod on my sl-5500

http://www.tekprosystems.com/zaurus/mod.htm (http://www.tekprosystems.com/zaurus/mod.htm)

You may be able to do something similar to a clam shell as well.

soycap
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Miami_Bob on September 07, 2004, 05:39:15 am
Quote
However, I was talking about a keyboard backlight, so you could see the keys in darker conditions. Again, you should be able to easily turn it off. Should help with those artificial lenses & retinal damages.  

Concerning battery life, maybe they could use OLED display. I hear it doesn't need backlighting. Should be very interesting. Probably isn't as nice yet as the CG silicon screen...
Ahhh. With the C860 you really don't need a backlighted keyboard. Just tilt the screen a bit forward & let it shine down on the keyboard. Works well even in complete darkness (G).

The C860 screen is very nice ... except in strong light conditions when it becomes unusable. But the level of backlight really makes a major difference in how long the battery lasts (G).
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: attis on September 08, 2004, 07:57:41 pm
 I've actually been emailing Sharp requesting that they make a clam shell version the sl-6000w. Maybe if enough people request these features they will start to pay attention.
http://www.myzaurus.com/requests.asp (http://www.myzaurus.com/requests.asp)
Let them know they have people waiting to give them money.
BTW an OLED screen would rock.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: loopy29 on September 09, 2004, 08:02:59 am
I just made a similar request. I am afraid though that this will not be heard..;
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: dhns on September 09, 2004, 10:14:26 am
I just learned that the SL-5500G seems to be really sold out in Germany (took one year longer than anticipated). No dealer or distributor has any devices left.

So Sharp should be unburdened from that stock and be free to think about new product generations.

Quote
that they make a clam shell version the sl-6000w.
I would prefer a Clamshell version of the SL-6000L (or better: a C860 with integrated WiFi) - I have no use for Bluetooth.
Quote
BTW an OLED screen would rock.
Agreed!

-- hns
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Miami_Bob on September 10, 2004, 03:48:59 am
Quote
I've actually been emailing Sharp requesting that they make a clam shell version the sl-6000w. Maybe if enough people request these features they will start to pay attention.
http://www.myzaurus.com/requests.asp (http://www.myzaurus.com/requests.asp)
Let them know they have people waiting to give them money.
BTW an OLED screen would rock.
Problem is that Sharp has NEVER, TTBOMK, officially released or supported a Cxxx "clam shell" Zaurus outside of Japan itself despite the fact that there are LOTs of us spending very good money & lots of it to obtain them in spite of Sharp's "marketing strategy" or lack there of.

Seems like Sharp Japan just flat does NOT care in the least what their customers, potential customers or once upon a time but no longer customers think, suggest, want and/or do.

Yet they continue to produce those cheap assed, pathetic pieces of complete & total crapola that Radio Shack purportedly "sells" as "clamshell" PDAs.

Pity, really. Cock pistol; shoot self in foot; repeat till out of ammo; reload & loop to start till out of foot; begin on other foot. Way to go, Sharp! DUHHHH!
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Zuber on September 10, 2004, 06:37:59 am
I fail to see why Sharp Japan get so much stick.

It is Sharp Japan that have introduced these excellent units. IMHO, it is Sharp Eurpoe and Sharp USA that have the problem.

From what I have been told, and it may be wrong. Sharp USA, Europe and Japan are all different entities that (are supposed to) work together.

So you can hardly expect Sharp Japan to start selling/promoting/supporting the clamshell model abroad. Apart from anything else, Sharp USA/Europe would be less than happy and would go nuts.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: iamasmith on September 10, 2004, 06:44:07 am
I have seen some references on a Japanese discussion group saying that the SL-C9x0 will probably have a PXA270 processor capable of higher clock rates than current PXA255 models but I think this is all speculation.

I wouldn't hold my breath for OLED/OLEP displays. Sharp spent a lot of time developing the CG Silicon technology as a cost effective, power efficient and small scale display technology - I think their focus is going to be on that for a while.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Miami_Bob on September 10, 2004, 11:36:05 am
Quote
I fail to see why Sharp Japan get so much stick.

It is Sharp Japan that have introduced these excellent units. IMHO, it is Sharp Eurpoe and Sharp USA that have the problem.

From what I have been told, and it may be wrong. Sharp USA, Europe and Japan are all different entities that (are supposed to) work together.

So you can hardly expect Sharp Japan to start selling/promoting/supporting the clamshell model abroad. Apart from anything else, Sharp USA/Europe would be less than happy and would go nuts.
I may be wrong, but my impression is that Sharp JAPAN is the reason that the other Sharp "areas" can not sell the Cxxx series.

And, apparently, the assorted Sharp domains are NOT so completely independent as all THAT, Zub.

Look at

 http://sharp-world.com/index.html (http://sharp-world.com/index.html)

 and at

 http://sharp-world.com/worldwide/index.html (http://sharp-world.com/worldwide/index.html)

Looks like they communicate well enough between themselves when THEY *want* to do so, eh? But ain't it strange how both pages, entirely in anglic, have that:

 " -> Home -> For Business -> Japan "

route mark topside? Which jumps the user directly to:

http://www.sharp.co.jp/ (http://www.sharp.co.jp/)

ALL in Japanese, too.

Who do you guess is the horns on the ox, eh?

If you check "Products" (WORLD WIDE, now mind) you get Electronic Organizers but no PDAs or PMTs. Drill one more layer there & you find 6 ZQ series (including the cheap ass Radio Shack items that I mentioned above) and 3 EL series (ditto).

NOT ONE Cxxx OR SL-xxxx however. And notice, please, that all the world is represented on this page EXCEPT for JAPAN. Hummm? Just coincidence? Or a plot by ALL the other Sharp domains against *Japan*?

NOW, Zuber, with all due respect, I next Googled for "Zaurus", limited to site:Sharp-world.com for 34 hits returned.

Most were corp promo hype like

http://sharp-world.com/corporate/info/his/h_company/1996/ (http://sharp-world.com/corporate/info/his/h_company/1996/)
http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/0103.html (http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/0103.html)

A few were corp hype PDFs like

 Design Strategy for LCD-Applied Products
http://sharp-world.com/corporate/rd/tj1/pdf/4.pdf (http://sharp-world.com/corporate/rd/tj1/pdf/4.pdf)

 Concept Development for LCD-Applied Products
http://sharp-world.com/corporate/rd/tj1/pdf/3.pdf (http://sharp-world.com/corporate/rd/tj1/pdf/3.pdf)

But not a single one was current or relevant to our Z's.

Come on, Zuber. Its obvious as the hand in front of one's face, IMHO, who is calling the Sharp International tune & why the Cxxxs are restricted to Japan only. Sharp JAPAN *wants* it that way.

Again, with all due respect, SHOW me reasons to believe otherwise. I'm willing lo listen to good *facts* with open mind.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: Zuber on September 10, 2004, 04:17:44 pm
Have no facts what so ever  

I'm not saying Sharp Japan don't run the show...

But I assume that they are in business to make money. Hence if Sharp USA etc. managed to do a half decent job in terms of promoting the PDA products and in convincing Sharp Japan that it was worth while (profitable). Then I can't see any reason why Sharp Japan would turn round and say no.

For the same reason that they don't say no to the million other Sharp products that sell in the rest of the world.

Maybe it does not work like that. Who knows. But Sharp do sell plenty of high tech products around the world. So I can't think of an obvious reason whey would make a big fuss over not bringing PDAs to non Japanese markets. In technical terms there is virtually nothig for them to do.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: nathanwms on September 10, 2004, 05:00:35 pm
Quote
In technical terms there is virtually nothig for them to do.
 I agree with your statement; however, because the linux handheld market is so small worldwide, it may not be cost effective after they look at worldwide support of various languages and a worldwide advertising budget.
  Those members of this forum living in Japan seem to indicate that the Z clamshell is doing very well there.  I believe the Z clamshell will continue to be marketed in Japan and thus we will be able to get the latest and greatest for quite some time (thru the importers or directly of course).
  I think Sharp will continue to make handhelds as long as sales are strong in Japan.  Producing handhelds is both a good test bed and advertising for their small screen technology, which is where they really want to make their money.
Title: Is there a new CXXX coming soon?
Post by: roderickv on September 21, 2004, 11:00:22 pm
The problem is that Sharp works against itself. While the Sharp development team are trail blazers IMHO, the Sales and Marketing team (responsible for the US and European markets) are trend followers. When I think of them, inept comes to mind....

Sharp has consistantly misjudged the wants and needs of the US handheld market. You can go back to the orginal Sharp Zaurus SL-XXX series. It was an excellent unit with features way ahead of it's time, with a fanatical group of owners (much like us), with forums, webpages and support groups (because Sharp's support also sucked). SHARP chose to not share the SDK of that Zaurus and so no significant 3rd party software could be developed. As a result, sales of other palmtops and handhelds over took those of the Zaurus and it was discontinued.  Although Sharp compensated for that early SKD mistake by introducing Linux based open sourced machines (which was a nice move), they again got it wrong by not selling the the C-XXX series here and in Europe. They got it in their head that the US market would not want clam shell units, I guess because of the popularity of the Palm Pilots a few years back. Another example is the Sharp Mobilon, which was just a knee jerk reaction to the budding Windows CE market. Sharp would have been much better served to continue developing the exsisting devices (The Sharp Zaurus SL-XXX being one) which was already established and brand recognizable, Lord knows they had the talent, but instead chose to discontinue the Zaurus and jump on the CE band wagon with a CE machine of their own.

So I recognize Sharp for what they are - Great at hardware and development and terrible at sales, support and marketing. If they would just listen to some of the great suggestions they have had over the years from owner and the likes of forums like this one, they would have got it right a long time ago, the development talent is there!