OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: nevarrie on August 27, 2004, 11:29:18 am
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Now that my Treo 180 has died I have bought a cheap gsm phone to hold me till I can find another pda phone. One of the things I am looking at is Turning my SL-6000L into my cell phone line I did at one point with my Visor deluxe with a SpringBoard Expansion Card. I know that there are a few CF cards out there for GSM and Sprint has one for PCS. I have seen discusions about using them for internet connections though has anyone really used one of there cards to turn their Z into their main cellphone that they send a recieve calls with?
From what I can tell this should be possable I guess I am more interested in if it is practical or if I am better off trying to get a Treo 650 or maybe a Motorola A780...
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I am able to connect to the internet with my SL-5500 through my cell phone.
If interested, I will give details.
Doug
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dougeeebear, I don't think that's the aim. The original poster has the same question as myself: Is anyone having experimented with these CF cellphones. The idea is to turn the Z into a cellphone, not connect it to a separate cellphone. We want to reduce the Batman factor by one (removing one of these devices in your belt) and increase the Bond factor, by integrating one more device into an existing one.
Hope this clarify.
However, if your own setup is not yet documented in the howtos, I strongly encourage you to document it and submit a document to integrate in the HOWTOs. For sure, it will help somebody else.
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Thank you dsavard for clearing that up.
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I have done some initial experiments with the Audiovox RTM8000 but did not find enough time to really use it in daily life. So I have no experience about battery drain and real useability. The card itself is small enough so that it does not disturb other operation.
The RTM8000 comes with an earphone with micro and a button to accept or cancel incoming calls. Dialing out is a little cumbersome as I am not aware of a dedicated phone dialer software for the Z (my own solution within the myPDA-Zaurus-Edition project http://www.dsitri.de/wiki.php?page=Screenshots (http://www.dsitri.de/wiki.php?page=Screenshots) is not yet completed/working).
So the first step is to install the card (one has to fiddle a little with the serial_cs.o and do an additional serialctl command). Then, a terminal program like minicom can be used to issue an AT command to set the PIN and then ATD to dial (voice mode). There are several threads on ZUG on this topic.
-- hns
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This is an interesting post, I would quite like to try something similar when my 5600 arrives.
The Audiovox RTM8000 is currently not sold outside the EU afaik so you may have to get one imported if you're in the US:
http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...12410&langId=-1 (http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=12410&langId=-1)
I am not aware of a dedicated phone dialer software for the Z (my own solution within the myPDA-Zaurus-Edition project http://www.dsitri.de/wiki.php?page=Screenshots (http://www.dsitri.de/wiki.php?page=Screenshots) is not yet completed/working).
Lets hope you or someone else has a break through on this soon, its a really good idea
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jamesm: Where did you get the info it is not sold in the US? I would like to check if it is in Canada.
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jamis esm: Where did you get the info it is not sold in the US? I would like to check if it is in Canada.
dsavard: Check out the link I posted to the audiovox site, the relevant quote is below:
**Currently sold only outside the US
I'm sure it doesn't mean that they cannot be obtained from within the US, but it sounds like they're not sold directly from within the country.
If you're unable to get one from Canada then I would be happy to send you one over from the UK.
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jamesm: How much is it selling? I was unable to find the info on the site since the CF phone is not sold at the on-line store.
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dsavard: A quick scout around some UK resellers has found this online store:
http://www.widget.co.uk/asp/product.asp?re...archFor=&PT_ID= (http://www.widget.co.uk/asp/product.asp?recorprod=&product=118&cat=&ph=&keywords=&recor=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=)
They're selling the unit for 169.99 GBP (~394.72 CAD). I can't say for certain if thats a good price, although widget.co.uk do appear to be fairly competetive on most items in their store.
One way to get around the shipping taxes is to have someone buy it for you and then send it on as a gift. (I'm not sure on the legality of this method) The actual amount of tax/shipping from the UK to Canada is not something I'm familiar with.
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It's too much expensive. I will check if it is selling in Canada today and that's only part of the problem, since cell companies tend to sell subscription with only the cellphones they are reselling.
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It's too much expensive. I will check if it is selling in Canada today and that's only part of the problem, since cell companies tend to sell subscription with only the cellphones they are reselling.
That might be the reason why it is not sold in the US...
They might have seen no reason to list the card in catalogs and subsidize it or bundle with a subscription. And 'cause they rarely offer subscriptions without a device, it is no business for Audiovox.
But my card has a FCC number so it is definitely approved for PCS operation.
-- hns
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I can't really comment on the state of cell phone operators in the US/Canada, however European mobile telephone companies have been going through something of a purple patch in the past five years so consequently coverage, service and hardware are readily available and very competetive; price wise.
The main factor in the high price of this card is probably the size of the market. Even with a massive European cell phone user base, there is still limited apeal for users to buy specialist hardware like a GSM CF card.
I may still look into this as an experiment for my 5600; in the UK one can pick up a 'Pay-as-you-talk' SIM card for about 5GBP and talktime prices are coming down all the time.
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for any word on the introduction of 3G CF cards.... imagine a 400+kbps mobile connection on a pda
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I just found by chance that Expansys seems to carry the product in the US and CAN:
http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=RTM8000 (http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=RTM8000)
http://www.expansys.ca/product.asp?code=RTM8000 (http://www.expansys.ca/product.asp?code=RTM8000)
-- hns
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That brings the price down a fair amount!
Let us know if you manage to get hold of one and get it working.
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I'm excited about this product also. I have done some searching and the only ones that seem to have anything in the way of a dialer are the myPDA folks and I am not interested in venturing into mac land. It appears there app is not finished yet. If others are interested, I would be willing to contribute to a bounty to get a program to write us a dialer app. I would think it would be a money-maker, but it is hard to gauge the size of the Z community.
My CC is getting ready to head to Expansys.
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I just found by chance that Expansys seems to carry the product in the US and CAN:
http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=RTM8000 (http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=RTM8000)
http://www.expansys.ca/product.asp?code=RTM8000 (http://www.expansys.ca/product.asp?code=RTM8000)
-- hns
Thanks for the link. I was waiting for my current cellphone provider to let me know if they are reselling this product and/or activates it. The answer is no in both cases. So, even if I am managing to buy one, they will refuse to activate it.
Anybody knows if there is a carrier in Canada who will accept to activate these beasts? It seems the practice is to sell the cellphone or any other wireless device with the communication plan.
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I just found by chance that Expansys seems to carry the product in the US and CAN:
http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=RTM8000 (http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=RTM8000)
http://www.expansys.ca/product.asp?code=RTM8000 (http://www.expansys.ca/product.asp?code=RTM8000)
-- hns
Thanks for the link. I was waiting for my current cellphone provider to let me know if they are reselling this product and/or activates it. The answer is no in both cases. So, even if I am managing to buy one, they will refuse to activate it.
Anybody knows if there is a carrier in Canada who will accept to activate these beasts? It seems the practice is to sell the cellphone or any other wireless device with the communication plan.
I have this card and use it in US with t-moblie GPRS (not voice as I decided
to get a separate data plan from my t-mobile voice plan - they gave me a separate
sim card for the data plan). In this sense what I'm saying is not relevant to the 'Zaurus as Cell Phone' discussion but one thing I'd like to point out is at least from my experience this card very quckly drains the battery.
I manage only about 50-60 minutes with my fully charged c-860 (with big battery). Again, this is GPRS data plan only but I can't imagine much better battery life if this is used for
voice application. This is all with latest Cacko ROM and I don't know if other ROM
with perhaps improved device driver would make a lot of difference.
BTW, for those 50-60 minutes (before the battery goes out) browsing the web during my Jersey-Manhattan daily train ride is a real pleasure.
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It's actually relevant to Zaurus as a cellphone if the device drain the battery so fast it is almost not handy to use it as a cellphone.
BTW, in USA your mobile communications providers are much more customer friendly. Here, in Canada, there is only three or four big names acting mostly as monopolies in there respective regions. So, why should they bother with these few guys asking for anything else they have in their marketing basket and customed to maximized the profit (selling a telco plan + a cellphone or a specialized device like the Blackberry)? They are making profits on the device and the plan. Also, they are locking the SIM cards to make sure you will have to buy a new phone if you decide to switch to another provider.
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Fido.ca is know to sell data only plans. Regarding the audiovox, did some tests today with a 6000L - started at 10 am, was still running at 10pm when I decided put it on charge. I just downlocked the CPU and lit off the LCD screen. Received and passed 2 calls, read the ny times using opiereader.
Ok I did accidently turned off the phone for 1h when I hit power instead of LCD off, but 1) I will do the test again tomorrow and 2) to me a full wordkday of charge is more than enough.
I purchased the 6000 extension (2nd battery holder) thinking I may need it to use it as a cell phone but the 6000 on a single battery is good enough for me with the audiovox. I plan to try to leave it on 24/7, only charging at night like a real cellphone.
Now working on a commercial dialer/fax/sms/mms/wap software suite. The code will be GPL but I hope I can raise some funds on the binaries - at least to finish the "phone" software suite.
BTW If somebody is already using the fax functionnality of the audiovox on linux, I'd be very interested to know how.
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I have just found that Rogers is also selling such plans. After asking a rep at expandsys, I was redirected to the following site: GSM World (http://www.gsmworld.com), select Roaming and select the country. There is only two in Canada: Rogers and Fido, and Rogers has just made an offer to buy Fido last week. This week, Virgin annonced its intention to offer mobile communications services in Canada.
Seems, accordingly to analysts Rogers are contracted a debt to buy Fido in response to Virgin's intentions. After looking at what is offered in other countries, it is very discouraging to see there is no competition at all in Canada for mobile services. I really hope the coming of Virgin will change this picture. At least, the announce they made is pulling in that direction.
Happy to here the battery of the SL-6000L is lasting a workday, that's just enough for me. I also have a second battery, plus an adapter to plug it in the car.
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Received and passed 2 calls, read the ny times using opiereader.
Wait, what application do you use to dial/ID calls now?
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Nothing public (yet). It is under work.
minicom also work - gives you caller id, let you call numbers, but having the Z play a tune on an incoming call is way beter
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That' great. Hope you can come up with something soon.
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Yes there SOLDi in the US here is the link and it's UnLocked
Chi Mei - G1
CF - G1, GSM / GPRS
GSM unlocked Tri Band World phone
Tri-Bank EGSM900 / DCS1800 / PCS 1900 - GSM World Phone (http://www.convergentech.com/detail.aspx?ID=2)[img]http://www.convergentech.com/images/compact_flash/cf_gsm_gprs/gprs_8_cut.gif\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
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Tri-Bank EGSM900 / DCS1800 / PCS 1900 - GSM World Phone (http://www.convergentech.com/detail.aspx?ID=2)
It looks a very similar (especially the SIM card area and the antenna mounting position) to the Audiovox RTM 8000 (which is also made by Chi Mei as the FCC ID reveals).
Link (http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/largeimage.jsp?image=/images/products_large/rtm8000_y.jpg)
[IMG=http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/largeimage.jsp?image=/images/products_large/rtm8000_y.jpg]http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/largeimage.jsp?image=/images/products_large/rtm8000_y.jpg[/IMG]
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Is there anybody who got the audiovox card working under RC5? Tried the HOWTO, but can´t connect to t-mobile in Germany
How do i have to configure minicom? Tried /dev/ttyS3 but i cannot dial
any tips?
If i get an incoming call i cannot answer or hangup via minicom -- only with the headset!
Please help!
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Interesting thread.
I've just recently resurrected my old SL5500 and had been wondering about using it as an alternative mobile handset also.
After reading through the thread I did a cursory google search and came up with the following card, which looks interesting.
It claims to "support Unix" and includes an integrated rechargeable battery (so no drain from your PDA battery). It's also available from expansys, so should be available to US/Canadian buyers out there.
http://www.totalpda.co.uk/Pretec-CompactGPRS-CF-Card.aspx (http://www.totalpda.co.uk/Pretec-CompactGPRS-CF-Card.aspx)
Unfortunately my wallet is fixed on house renovations these days so can't afford to buy one of these for testing, however, hopefully someone may find the info useful.
dtwilson.
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Do we know anything about how it does "unix". I'd like to assume that we're really just talking about the card coming up as a modem (which it should).
Really all GPRS controls are a series of specialized at commands and are very, very easy to implement. All software would have to do is echo to the at command to the proper serial device. Of course, this is on my list of things to do... just not soon.
Thanks for the link!
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I actually have the Pretec CompactGPRS compact flash card and have gotten it to work successfully for dialing up the internet via my AT&T EDGE/GPRS service. It was a lil bit of a hassle to get working (you can go to http://www.sdgsystems.com/support (http://www.sdgsystems.com/support) ) and download the .ipk for the Pretec which basically installs a pretec.conf in /etc/pcmcia/ (If I remember correctly) so that it's recognized by the hotplug system.
This is the link to the forum post where they talk about getting the card working at SDG Systems:
http://www.sdgsystems.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80 (http://www.sdgsystems.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80)
You can actually get it set up so that you can use the network icon to dial up the internet, you just have to create a dummy configuration for a dial-up modem first, then copy over your working connect script to the file name that the Zaurus Networking program set up.
All in all it works fine. I like the fact that it has it's own battery which allows you to not worry about sucking all the juice out of your zaurus. I've gotten it working on my 5600 and now also on my 6000L though on the 6000L I can't get the Networking app to realize that I've plugged in the modem and that it should allow me to dial-up. It doesn't think it's there so I have to go to the terminal and pppd call DIALUP039184019384031948103948 to get it to dial but it works
If someone does happen to get the Pretec card (or is thinking about it) and needs help getting set up, let me know, I'll be more than happy (ok maybe not, but I'll help anyway) to help you out.
Oh, and it does come with it's own charger and headset and a CF to PCMCIA (PC Card) adapter so you can ALSO use it on your laptop for internet access or SMS, faxing, etc. Software comes ready for Windows, but not for Unix (naturally).
And if anyone has any ideas as to why the card isn't being recognized by the Network App as my modem when I insert it, lemme hear'em. I'm pretty annoyed that all the files are the same as far as I can see on the 5600 and the 6000L (at least the changes and new file [pretec.conf] to get the card working) and so it doesn't make any sense to me why it works fine on the 5600 and not on the 6000L.
OH and before I forget: the card does appear as /dev/ttyS3 and you can feed it AT commands like any other modem. I haven't actually tried using it for making voice calls yet (my AT&T EDGE/GPRS service is data only though I could *probably* jam my cell phone SIM card into it and make regular voice calls.... YMMV).
Polito
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Just a quick post to let you know I have a text-mode version the dialer ready for tests. I've been using it for the last week without any problem. I'd be interested in beta testers... a GUI is coming soon.
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polito or anyone esle that may have got that card. ive been wondering if it is able to make voice calls as well as do data
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i'll test your text version dialer. would you please post your site or a link to your ipk, thanks
i'm going to be using the audiovox 8000 cf, as soon as it arrives.
lu
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Well I can officially report that my Pretec CompactGPRS CF card is able to place voice calls. I knew it would under windows with the included software, but hadn't tried it with the Zaurus.
I was able to use kermit to connect and send a simple:
atdt1231234567;
command and have it dial the number. YES, that IS a semi-colon. Without it the GPRS card will try to make a data call. I was able to call my office line with the Zaurus and leave messages.
The only problem I ran into and was unable to figure out how I could get it to work, was trying to send DTMF tones in order to make button selections (ie, Push 1 in order to hear your message, Push 2 to append, Push 3 to blah blah blah) so I couldn't actually do anything but make a call. So this (so far) wouldn't work if you were trying to navigate menus where you have to push numbers in order to advance. Does anyone know how this would be done?
Unfortunately (and I don't know if there's some special way to do this that I don't know about) you have to use the included headset in order to hear the telephone calls. You can't expect the speaker and microphone on the Zaurus to work as a cellphone would.
To hang up after the call you just issue the standard
ATH0
interesting interesting interesting....
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Hello guylhem
i am ready to test your dialler
please send it to mail@deniscallies.de
hopefully waiting to try it under PDAXom RC 5
bye Denis
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Ok guys, I'm cleaning up a version and will upload it soon on externe.net/zaurus/gsm
Don't hold your breath, it's just simple program that:
- rings + show caller id when you are called
- lets you dial number (type them, press enter)
To hang up, you must use the button on the earplug that comes with the audiovox [only because there's no gui yet ]. OTOH it should work on both opie/qtopia and pdaxrom
The GUI has been started - it will be available soon fo both roms.
the dialer is a first app of a commercial GPL suite of zaurus tools we're trying to set up. Basically useres will pay a small fee for the binary (say $35) and get the GPL sourcecode along with it. That'll sustain the devel costs for other apps we'd like to code (sms, wap/imode browser etc) while also letting anyone hack the application, offer features etc.
I hope the Z community won't distribute the binary - nothing will prevent anyone from doing that, since the source will be GPL. Yet that would seriously damage the likelyhood of a full suite of phone applications if we can't recoup devel costs.
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I hope the Z community won't distribute the binary - nothing will prevent anyone from doing that, since the source will be GPL. Yet that would seriously damage the likelyhood of a full suite of phone applications if we can't recoup devel costs.
Distributing the source and selling the bins might be a more popular idea; pay software never seems to fare well on the Z.
In any case, it's goodto hear *somone* is working on phone software, since Trolltech doesn't seem to include a phone dialling/control utility to Qt/embedded.
TBH, I wouldn't pay for what essentially is a AT-gui, but I would for a decent piece of telephony software. I'd love to put a $ bounty on KDEPIM/PI integration, for example, but I don't know how zautrix and Co would feel about cooperating with pay-sofware. I guess you'd have to ask them
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the idea behind pay for binary GPL is to have some friends working with me. I don't know c++/qtopia well enough to do a gui. I want to do GPL software. They are motivated by $. So everyone wins: GPL software, gui, $.
regarding the telephony app, it may not be integrated with kdepim because I best like standard sharp apps, but someday who know? (or if 20 users ask for that :-)
anyway it will be integrateed in the standard addressbook, and I'll try to add some voip roaming feature. (eg when you are on wifi, automatically use voip)
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BTW do you pretec guys access the modem in 115200 like on the audiovox ?
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Can´t wait to test your Software...
I´ve not been able to manage my audiovox through minicom
so my hope hangs on you!
bye Denis
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As far as how I've accessed the Pretec CompactGPRS, it just depends on what I set the serial line to via kermit. The card isn't picky about what speed I set.
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hey guylhem will your software work with the pretec card or is it only goin to support the Audiovox one?
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From a coder view, it's just a glorified minicom. If you card doesn't work with minicom, odds are it won't work with the dialer either.
The next version will include multiplexing support - that may help with some cards such as the compaq cradle for ipaq, but that's all
Hey I'll do my best to have it online tonite so you guys can test it.
roadmap:
- text mode version to see whether it work with most cards
- gui for qtopia
- multiplexer support to help with some cards and make it possible to use the audiovox for gsm voice + data at the same time
- gui for X
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This has been quiet for a while... any progress on this, guylhem?
cheers
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Nope. Lot of work lately. Will try to start again ASAP.
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The only problem I ran into and was unable to figure out how I could get it to work, was trying to send DTMF tones in order to make button selections (ie, Push 1 in order to hear your message, Push 2 to append, Push 3 to blah blah blah) so I couldn't actually do anything but make a call. So this (so far) wouldn't work if you were trying to navigate menus where you have to push numbers in order to advance. Does anyone know how this would be done?
at+vts=(tone key);
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adding dialer support to existing apps (like ko/pi)
shouldn't be a licence issue, if they implement it as an external command line plugin.
the phonebook app can issue a command line dialer with the phone number + name as $1 $2 arguments.
eg
# mydial --num="325464325" --title="John Biryon"
this way anyone could write a dialer from their program, maybe even with call logs etc.
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Hello
I really need some help for the GUI part. Something quite simple - buttons from 0 to 9 with green phone, red phone, * and #. Buttons which can be pushed, and a small "screen" over that to display the stuff being pressed. No further devel until that (trivial) part is solved.
We had a (working) part that only compiles/work with qt 1.7 on x86. qt 1.5 (the version sharp uses) is strangely crashing. The code looks clean (I only do C/command line, no gui - I know I should learn C++/qtopia, find me some free time :-).
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The license will be GPL. I fail to understand what problem it will cause to kopi which is also GPL.
Writing a command line dialer is trivial. just echo
atdtxxxxx; > /dev/ttyS3 or wherever you modem is.
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i understand you want it for qt based rom, isn't it?
personally, i would do it in python+pyqt.
but i've switched to pdaxrom now, and i dont have there qt right now
i'll try to see if i can improvise something that'd be sufficient for u,
but you'd have to pour your contents into the functional parts.
are u interested ?
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I am. Something very basic in C, as described above (numbers, buttons, screen...), will be just fine.
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Excellent news- Thanks to TimW (yes the one who did opie-reader) who sent me a squeletton application, I could successfully create a graphical dialer application.
Created yesterday. It's **WORKING**. First release today ! Stay tuned.
http://externe.net/zaurus/zedialler (http://externe.net/zaurus/zedialler)
http://www.externe.net/zaurus/modules.php?...order=0&thold=0 (http://www.externe.net/zaurus/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=52&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
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Wow, by chance I checked this today after a long time and voila! - Thanks! I thought the project had died.
Are you interested in any graphical work for the project? ie phone icons and such? If you are I'd be more than happy to make some stuff up.
One thing though - I get an error when i try to start in on my c860 with cacko 1.22 hotfix A
# cardctl resume; ./zedialer
Bus error
Thanks for the hard work! Maybe soon i will ditch my cheap cell for good.
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Sounds like a good start. What cards will it work with?
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Hi
On compatibility - if your card works with minicom, then it should work with zedialler.
Regarding artwork, yes I'd be very interested - especially in icons (both for qvga and vga devices).
I will try to upload a new version tonight. Else send me a PM with your ICQ# - I will try to send you something else.
Guylhem
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guylhem,
I was able to start it (GUI) but not to call from. The same command typed in minicom works fine. Seems it not communicates with modem...
Before starting of zedialer I have resumed the card and activated it with at+cpin=.... in minicom.
Power Off from menu hangs my Z till I brutally removed the card.
Anyway good for begining. Keep the good work continuing.
suruaZ
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I was able to start it (GUI) but not to call from. The same command typed in minicom works fine. Seems it not communicates with modem...
Before starting of zedialer I have resumed the card and activated it with at+cpin=.... in minicom.
Same report for me, the card works fine with minicom but not with zedialer... (SL-C3000, EagleTec GSM/GPRS CF card).
BTW, I get a "QLibrary open failed: /home/QtPalmtop/lib/libqsfepj.so, libkke.so.1: cannot load shared object file: No such file or directory" message when I launch zedialler, and another one as well: "QObject::connect: cannot connect QPushButton::clicked() to ZeDiallerWidget::(null)". The first message is probably not related to zedialler, but the second obviously is!
And when I exit zedialler, I get two "No destructor needed yet" messages, which are probably more warning than error messages...
Keep up the good work!
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Hi all.
I have wanted to use my Z as a cell phone ever since I got it, but I can't see how you can justify doing it at present. The cheapest I have seen a CF GSM card is still well over 100 pounds!!! The cards are much more likely to get broken (I am still not confident with my wifi card). They are difficult to set up and lack support by mobile phone companies. IICR, the 6000 is the only Z that could even possibly be used without a headset, and knowing these things it probably isn't very good. Battery life is another major issue- from what has been said so far I'm guessing that my 5500 probably won't last more than an hour (more like 30 mins), without even making any calls.
Yeah, prices should come down as more people buy them, and I know that Z support is being worked on, but why not buy (or get given) a real cheap, small, old mobile and use that for voice calls? There is always the connecting the phone to the Z for internet issue (irda? serial? bluetooth?), but still.
I guess the main issue here, as always, is cost. How much can I get a suitable (low power drain) GSM card for in the UK?
Thinking about it, maintaining line of sight for irda can be rather impractical, likewise a serial cable could get rather annoying (as well as being hard to get hold of- it would have to be home made to connect the two devices without an special adapters), so maybe bluetooth is the only option for connecting the two devices together. I don't know how much bluetooth phones are these days, but bluetooth CF cards are about 40 pounds. You could also have a bluetooth headset this way.
Just my 2 cents.
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The license will be GPL. I fail to understand what problem it will cause to kopi which is also GPL.
Yeah, there will be 0 issues.
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I have wanted to use my Z as a cell phone ever since I got it, but I can't see how you can justify doing it at present. The cheapest I have seen a CF GSM card is still well over 100 pounds!!!
It depends where you're shopping, I suppose... I bought mine during a trip to Hong Kong for about 70 pounds. While not cheap (especially when considering the inconvenients of use of such a card when compared to a real phone), it's not as expensive as it once was. I remember seeing the AudioVox RTM8000 in a shop in Hong Kong more than one year ago, it was over 300 pounds at that time...
The cards are much more likely to get broken (I am still not confident with my wifi card). They are difficult to set up and lack support by mobile phone companies. IICR, the 6000 is the only Z that could even possibly be used without a headset, and knowing these things it probably isn't very good. Battery life is another major issue- from what has been said so far I'm guessing that my 5500 probably won't last more than an hour (more like 30 mins), without even making any calls.
Sad but true... At the moment, I think that the Zaurus must remain switched on so that the CF slot is still powered, if you want to be able to receive calls. Maybe we could find a way to, say, switch off the screen and underclock the processor while the Zaurus isn't used so that the power consumption is reduced but the card is still reachable on the network, but even like this, I doubt you'd have a full day with the card simply connected to the network, not even transmitting.
Yeah, prices should come down as more people buy them
I don't really expect the prices to come down, I fear that on the contrary they'll remain quite expensive because most devices will have the GSM/GPRS function built-in (if only for the power issue).
I know that Z support is being worked on, but why not buy (or get given) a real cheap, small, old mobile and use that for voice calls? There is always the connecting the phone to the Z for internet issue (irda? serial? bluetooth?), but still.
At the moment, I have an old phone indeed for my daily phone needs, and the CF card to connect the Z to the net while away from home or a WiFi network. That being said, my CF card's SIM is from another carrier (the same as my wife's phone plan), so it'd be nice to be able to receive phone calls on the Z with that card, even if this means first calling her (from whatever phone) so that she can call back with her unlimited voice plan (evenings & week-ends, but only applies to calls on the same carrier). Basically, the Z wouldn't completely replace my phone, but would act as a second phone with just a minor bulk addition to my usual stuff (I always carry the Z anyway, so it's just a matter of fitting the CF card and a headset in my Zaurus beltcase).
Thinking about it, maintaining line of sight for irda can be rather impractical, likewise a serial cable could get rather annoying
I used both methods for some time in the past, and stopped accessing the net while on the go for that reason. Only with the Treo 600 smartphone did I really make use of my GPRS plan. If you have to juggle with more than one device (even if it's a bulky one with the CF card bulging on the side), IMHO it's a pain and probably not worth it for a regular use. Of course, if you only connect through IR/cable once per week, then it's not a major problem...
maybe bluetooth is the only option for connecting the two devices together. I don't know how much bluetooth phones are these days, but bluetooth CF cards are about 40 pounds. You could also have a bluetooth headset this way.
Bluetooth sure eases the process. Still not perfect (I remember having to switch off Bluetooth on my Ericsson t39m phone when not actually using it, otherwise it would dramatically reduce the battery life of that otherwise great phone), but a big improvement nonetheless. Unfortunately, you still need to carry two devices (even if not in both hands at the same time), and it's hard to find a simple bluetooth phone those days, the carriers want you to purchase their toys with color, hires screen, digicam and polyphonic ringtones... I had to dig a bit to find a second hand t39m (my wife having fetched mine to use with her Sony Clie TH55 via bluetooth - for occasional internet connections ) for my "phone" needs. Add to this the limitations of the current Bluetooth implementation (hard if not impossible to pair a phone with both a headset and a PDA, to be able to initiate a call from the PDA through the phone, and use the headset once the call is established). Not to mention using the headset to listen music on the PDA, for instance (tricky at best, you need some special BT profile, etc.)...
Right now, I don't know if using a BT headset with a GSM/GPRS CF card would be possible (assuming the Zaurus would have either built-in bluetooth capabilities or through, say, a BT SD card), as I fear that the voice signal is only available through the CF card's headset jack. Of course, one could imagine a cable between the CF card's jack and the Zaurus audio input/output jack, and then redirecting the audio stream to the BT interface, but I'm sceptikal at best!
All in all, it's true that at the moment, the Zaurus won't completely replace a mobile phone. But it sure would be great to be able to use it - even occasionally and with all the problems you mention - as a cell phone, hence the need for a good GUI.
One area where a good GUI would come in handy is sending / receiving SMS. It's so much easier to type a message on the Zaurus keyboard than on the phone (even with T9 and such) that I think it would be equally useful as voice functions!
(Note to moderators: sorry if it's long & boring and probably more than a bit off-topic! If you feel it's too much OT, I'll edit my post and cut some of my rant... )
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I am so gonna have to make my own palmtop...
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Long ago I had a Handspring Visor with the "springboard" GSM module, and it was pretty good, even though the integration with the standard Palm datebook was crude (basically it had an import feature for its own phone book).
I got quite excited when I discovered that, with a compact flash GSM card there was a chance of doing the same... I found an audiovox rtm-8000 on ebay for a good price (be warned, there are two versions, one with a headset socket which does voice, the other without) - I paid GBP40 (EUR60? USD70?).
At first I thought it didn't work, "dmesg" told me the Z saw the card, but no joy in minicom or zediallar.
It's been a long time since I played with modems (I used to work in data/voice telephony, but not for 10 years, and I've been on broadband long enough that my regular modem is "lost" in a drawer somewhere). I had to discover the following things:
* dmesg on the zaurus reports the new modem device as ttyS03. that's a lie, it's ttyS3
* you have to "cardctl resume" to make the card power up, by default (in Cacko) at least, the card is left inactive/suspended ("cardctl status" tells you if it's there).
* minicom saves its config to /usr/local/etc
* it's best to disable the PIN on the SIM card otherwise the CF GSM card can't register! there is some magic to send the PIN to the CF modem, but reading the AT command set was bending my brain!
once done, the card auto-registered just fine: at
OK
at+CREG?
+CREG: 0,1
at+COPS?
+COPS: 0,0,"ONE 2 ONE"
A friend works in the mobile industry and he told me where I can download all the AT command codes - they're in the ETSI document 27.007 from
www.3gpp.org specs (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/27_series/27.007/)
A google for "extended GSM AT data" and similar gives good results too.
So, I then tried Guylhem's zedialler.. ringing the Z simply crashes it. I did manage to get it to make a call, but it's not massively robust, but it shows what could be done.
is there a fund set up towards paying someone to finish off zedialler, or, adding some code to kphone/pi??
Paul
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is there a fund set up towards paying someone to finish off zedialler, or, adding some code to kphone/pi??
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82370\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
There is no fund for KPhone/PI, I dont know about ZDialler.
Thanks for the update though. Have you tested data connectivity at all?
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* it's best to disable the PIN on the SIM card otherwise the CF GSM card can't register! there is some magic to send the PIN to the CF modem, but reading the AT command set was bending my brain!
at+cpin="1234"
I do it very often while connecting to my GPRS provider with minicom
suruaZ
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at+cpin="1234"
I do it very often while connecting to my GPRS provider with minicom
ah, very good to know that. thanks.
weird, when I enter it, the card then says "OK", registers, and I lose usbnet connectivity! According to /var/log/messages on the PC, it's as if I unplugged the USB port.
at+creg?
+CREG: 0,0
OK
at+cops?
+COPS: 0
at+cpin="1234"
OK
--- if you're on usbnet, quickly unplug/replug USB and hope not to lose ssh session ---
at+creg?
+CREG: 0,1
OK
at+cops?
+COPS: 0,0,"UK CELLNET"
I tried the manual dialup suggested in externe forums:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:MXBMF...lient=firefox-a (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:MXBMFhUZgF8J:externe.net/zaurus/forum/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D4405+gprs+setting+zaurus+cacko&hl=en&client=firefox-a)
and got back the gibberish which is ppp.
So, I've now got to try and get the GPRS stuff working, weird thing is when I resume the card, and use minicom to unlock the PIN, the cacko dialup networking program tells me the card is busy. sigh.
Paul
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weird, when I enter it, the card then says "OK", registers, and I lose usbnet connectivity! According to /var/log/messages on the PC, it's as if I unplugged the USB port.
at+creg?
+CREG: 0,0
OK
at+cops?
+COPS: 0
at+cpin="1234"
OK
--- if you're on usbnet, quickly unplug/replug USB and hope not to lose ssh session ---
at+creg?
+CREG: 0,1
OK
at+cops?
+COPS: 0,0,"UK CELLNET"
If modem response OK after "at+cpin..." it's mean SIM card accepted the PIN.
Loosing of usbnet is not related to this, I beleive.
I tried the manual dialup suggested in externe forums:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:MXBMF...lient=firefox-a (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:MXBMFhUZgF8J:externe.net/zaurus/forum/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D4405+gprs+setting+zaurus+cacko&hl=en&client=firefox-a)
and got back the gibberish which is ppp.
So, I've now got to try and get the GPRS stuff working, weird thing is when I resume the card, and use minicom to unlock the PIN, the cacko dialup networking program tells me the card is busy. sigh.
On remote location (low signal level) I have problems with connecting to my GPRS provider through the built-in network applet so I do the next:
1. With minicom:
Unlock the SIM with at+cpin...
at+cgdcont=... to set up GPRS
atd1234... to call GPRS provider
After connection established (CONNECT, and some !}}!}... rubbish) I switch to the next shell window
2. With shell:
just start pppd with something like "pppd file pppd-options"
It works fine for me although not the best (comfortable) solution.
suruaZ
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I found an interesting program called qtphone:
qtphone (http://qtphone.sourceforge.net/)
and gotten it to build on linux-x86
very swish user interface. looks very promising. however, it seems totally useless in that it doesn't actually have any code to do the dialling.
however, if it could be built for Zaurus, and the useful code from zedialler (http://www.externe.net/zaurus/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=52) combined with it, it'd be a major step forward!
Paul
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I found an interesting program called qtphone:
qtphone (http://qtphone.sourceforge.net/)
"As of 2005-05-04 13:26, this project is no longer under active development"
Yeah. As this (and many other projects) proves, a GUI is easy to code but very hard to design properly. Especially for a softphone, it's critical to have a usable GUI, but the really hard work is done behind the scenes, handling the actual functionality, and the integration with the rest of the environment.
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qtphone (http://qtphone.sourceforge.net/)
"As of 2005-05-04 13:26, this project is no longer under active development"
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83236\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Yeah. I asked the guy why:
Thanks for the interest.
Unfortunately, I have no time to work on it.
My goal was to start up an non-profit org to build these types of products.
That has not happened yet.
Robert.
Yeah. As this (and many other projects) proves, a GUI is easy to code but very hard to design properly. Especially for a softphone, it's critical to have a usable GUI, but the really hard work is done behind the scenes, handling the actual functionality, and the integration with the rest of the environment.
Agreed..... however, in my very humble experience, I can write a tremendous amount of back-end code in the time it takes to develop a decent GUI front-end. But then I don't have much experience of the very latest design tools for creating GUIs (although in this case the Z uses an antiquated version of QT anyway).
I could probably write a useful command-line dialler tool in two days... if I understood all the extended AT+ commands that is!!!
I am still looking for a zaurus app to write, so maybe this is it. I've gotten cross-compiling to work and already submitted a command-line app to ELSIX and I'm working on the qtopia/qt-e tool chain.
Paul
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Agreed..... however, in my very humble experience, I can write a tremendous amount of back-end code in the time it takes to develop a decent GUI front-end. But then I don't have much experience of the very latest design tools for creating GUIs (although in this case the Z uses an antiquated version of QT anyway).
I can design the GUI if you'd like, it's not particularly hard, just a bit time-consuming, and it's very much an evolutive process. You might want to get in touch with Zautrix if you want to patch Kphone to support hardware dialling, I'm sure he's be happy to accept quality patches. I haven't tested it yet, but it's "usable" as in working, so there's probably room for improvement.
Want an real, new assignement? Build software that reads commercial maps for GPS apps? Or maybe a caching feedreader? If it's ideas you lack, I shall provide.
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I can design the GUI if you'd like, it's not particularly hard, just a bit time-consuming, and it's very much an evolutive process. You might want to get in touch with Zautrix if you want to patch Kphone to support hardware dialling, I'm sure he's be happy to accept quality patches. I haven't tested it yet, but it's "usable" as in working, so there's probably room for improvement.
Want an real, new assignement? Build software that reads commercial maps for GPS apps? Or maybe a caching feedreader? If it's ideas you lack, I shall provide.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83283\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
well, I've now tried building qtphone (off sourceforge), but I think it's too reliant on the latest release of the fullblown Qt.
I did wonder about patching kp/pi to add hardware dialling. I suppose that would be the most powerful option.
I used to be really into GPS, and had a Garmin. I analysed the map file format, to see if I could edit it in anyway, and it wasn't v nice. There's already solutions for GPS out there.
I figured, naively, that doing a simple dialler app would be quite easy. As ever, it's putting together the toolchain that's a pain in the arse. I got mgetty partly working, but there's something peculiar with the gsm modem, the Z's usbnet hangs when the modem is doing certain things.
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ev1l - do you really look like your avitar? It's giving me nightmares.
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ev1l - do you really look like your avitar? It's giving me nightmares.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Attatched. Personally, i think he looks more like your avitar. Sorry ev1l, if I got the wrong pic
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Hi,
back to the thread's original topic -- I finally managed to do a test of battery life using my 5500. With the RTM 8000 and an SD card in, logged onto the network doing GPRS (running IRC all the time, i.e. sending a few frames every couple of minutes), no backlight, processor underclocked to 162 MHz the unit lasted almost exactly 10 hours running off a fairly new internal 1100 mAh LiIon battery (an EN-EL5 compatible battery modified to work with the Z).
So that should give a rough guideline as to what can be expected. Turning the display off completely on a regular basis will most likely add a bit more time, but all in all performance is roughly the same as second generation GSM mobiles -- reminds me of my very first handset (an Ericsson GH-172, IIRC), which had a comparable battery life (but was a lot less fun ).
So unless you want to really deprive yourself, using a Z as a cellphone doesn't really seem like a sensible option, even though the result isn't nearly as bad as some people have suggested in this thread.
Best regards,
Chris.
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ev1l - do you really look like your avitar? It's giving me nightmares.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
No, I look like the picture xjqian posted. My avatar is a porn star in a Mario costume.
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back to the thread's original topic -- I finally managed to do a test of battery life using my 5500. With the RTM 8000 and an SD card in, logged onto the network doing GPRS (running IRC all the time, i.e. sending a few frames every couple of minutes), no backlight, processor underclocked to 162 MHz the unit lasted almost exactly 10 hours running off a fairly new internal 1100 mAh LiIon battery (an EN-EL5 compatible battery modified to work with the Z).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83859\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
That's pretty good actually. What the autonomy on a modern mobile phone with GPRS on 100%?
The clamshells come standard with a 1800mAh battery, too
So that should give a rough guideline as to what can be expected. Turning the display off completely on a regular basis will most likely add a bit more time, but all in all performance is roughly the same as second generation GSM mobiles
On the clamshells you just close the lid and the screen goes off, so it's quite easy to save power. The problem is that there is no dynamic frequency-management, so you'd have to set it back up when you open the lid anyway
So unless you want to really deprive yourself, using a Z as a cellphone doesn't really seem like a sensible option, even though the result isn't nearly as bad as some people have suggested in this thread.
Especially since the sound in/out is on the card itself. And the apps are not integrated with the phone capability (yet?).
When do we start porting the 2.6 kernel to the HTC Universal?
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What the autonomy on a modern mobile phone with GPRS on 100%?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Good question, never did use IRC on my mobile for that amount of time, but chances are it will still be quite a bit more than what a Z could offer even with an 1800 mAh battery. Of course that kind of comparison would be extremely unfair to the Z -- one would rather have to compare it to devices like the MDA, which IIRC aren't too hot when it comes to battery life as well.On the clamshells you just close the lid and the screen goes off, so it's quite easy to save power. The problem is that there is no dynamic frequency-management, so you'd have to set it back up when you open the lid anyway [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, I'm sure an appropriate applet could be written to handle that.Especially since the sound in/out is on the card itself. And the apps are not integrated with the phone capability (yet?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The latter could probably be fixed quite easily by doing some sort of add-on to KA/PI. As for the card having its own audio circuitry, well, that is somewhat annoying, I guess. But I'm sure it's something one can get used to.
But ...
creating an application/applet that provides the full functionality of a current generation phone would be a lot of work. We're not only talking dialing numbers, but also sending and receiving SMs and, possibly, MMs. The latter would, at the very least, mean implementing the entire WDP/WSP/WTP stack and building some sort of glue code so you could feed the resulting data to Opera and/or OM/PI as well as VLC or MPlayer. And the end result would still not be very nice. And writing an integrated app that 'does it all' would be a huge project, even though there are a lot of usable code fragments out there.
All that seems like way too much effort for a phone that, in the end, won't even last 24 hours.
Best regards,
Chris.
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On the clamshells you just close the lid and the screen goes off, so it's quite easy to save power. The problem is that there is no dynamic frequency-management, so you'd have to set it back up when you open the lid anyway [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Well, I'm sure an appropriate applet could be written to handle that.
Sure, but as usual, someone's got the write the damn thing first.
Especially since the sound in/out is on the card itself. And the apps are not integrated with the phone capability (yet?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=84080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
The latter could probably be fixed quite easily by doing some sort of add-on to KA/PI.
Same here.
But ...
All that seems like way too much effort for a phone that, in the end, won't even last 24 hours.
Too much work for whom?
The main reason I don't believe in the Z as a future-proof system is simply the lack of a decent software stack based on device integration (instead of trying to teach you English). It could have been an MDA-Universal 2 years before HTC even had a chance, but everyone dropped the ball on the software, and now we're stuck with a semi-braindead device
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Hello
Got a new release much more reliable. It can receive and make calls and hopefully survive a suspend.
I need testers with various zaurus and gsm cards. Please contact me my PM or at gmail.com.
Thanks,
Guylhem
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funnily enough, my app to do zaurus dialler (really an excuse to learn QT and linux serial programming) almost does something now. I've been more focussed on an SMS terminal than voice.
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Hello
Getting the first version working was not the real problem. Making the thing robust and portable was :-) Hopefully now a ring doesn't crash it, it doesn't leak memory etc.
Now we plan to support configurability (ex: don't even bother ringing when this number calls) multiple calls , sms and multiplexing (the hardest part - to allow voice and data operation at once)
Maybe we can do something together for the SMS functions ? That would be very welcome...
Do you have something ready, or at least a suggestion of features ?
Guylhem
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Maybe we can do something together for the SMS functions ? That would be very welcome...[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=88230\")
If you're looking for code on how to send SMS in general, you may want to have a look at the [a href=\"http://smstools.meinemullemaus.de/]SMS Server Tools[/url].
Best regards,
Chris.
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If you're looking for code on how to send SMS in general, you may want to have a look at the SMS Server Tools (http://smstools.meinemullemaus.de/).
thanks, I've already looked at building smstools for zaurus - the snag for me is that it needs libmm, and I can't get it to build!
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Maybe we can do something together for the SMS functions ? That would be very welcome...
Do you have something ready, or at least a suggestion of features ?
I don't have anything just yet worth showing, it's my first ever qtopia app and is a learning exercise. I'm happy to give away the source code, but it's not something I'm massively proud of, and isn't much good to anyone just yet!
I first wrote a command-line program which gave interactive control of the data/fax/voice modem, and used it to send SMSs. Now I've got to take my trolltech-designer designed UI and integrate with my serial library.
I'd be interested in looking at the Guylhem dialler, more for the use of AT commands, but need to learn the Qtopia stuff the hard way!
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I've already looked at building smstools for zaurus - the snag for me is that it needs libmm, and I can't get it to build![div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Uhm, now it's been over a year that I built smstools for my Z and I don't really remember what kind of nasty things I had to say while building it but I managed and have had working executables ever since ...
Best regards,
Chris.
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I've already looked at building smstools for zaurus - the snag for me is that it needs libmm, and I can't get it to build![div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=88280\")
Uhm, now it's been over a year that I built smstools for my Z and I don't really remember what kind of nasty things I had to say while building it but I managed and have had working executables ever since ...
Best regards,
Chris.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88308\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I recall building it a couple of years for x86 linux without any problems at all. I *think* it still used libmm back then
Do you have a working libmm? [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13404]https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13404[/url]
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I recall building it a couple of years for x86 linux without any problems at all. I *think* it still used libmm back then
Do you have a working libmm?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88315\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I just checked the old source directory for my Z stuff, and no, no libmm -- since smstools can be built without. From src/Makefile:# Uncomment to compile without statistic functions (and without mm library)
NOSTATS = TRUESeems that's what I did right from the start
Best regards,
Chris.
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Just a thought. Isnt there anything in the Trolltech QTPhone edition suite that will let the Z be used as a phone?
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There is, but it is not free software. hence the effort to create a replacement.
The beta support receiving and passing calls. I'm interested in beta testers...