OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zuber on September 29, 2004, 04:25:30 am
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Hello all,
Just got an unofficial reply from our source in Japan that Sharp "may" have a new model out around end of November (Seamed quite confident).
No info on specs etc. what so ever. But if true, hopefully a bigger step up than the C760 to C860 update
If they make this one with a Barbie Pink top (Wife called the C760 Barbie White), I'll kill them.
I should point out that when I have contacted these guys in the past following rumours, they have always dismissed them. So I reckon there is something to this one.
Besides which, not good for business telling everyone there may be a new model when you have existing stock, so not sure why I am telling you guys
Oh, we have dropped the prices a little to compensate on the "Possible" new release. If it is Barbie pink, prices are going back up
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I can't wait for more details, but tell your wife that it is apple (ipod) white. I swear sharp and apple could easly turn the Z into the osx newton. I'd still put linux on it though.
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Interesting to hear more rumors circulate. I just got an 860 about a week and a half ago, and I was originally going to wait since it seemed quite possible there'd be a new model coming out.
Still happy with the purchase, but I may have to sell it and get whatever is new if it turns out to be compatible with everything. Provided this all happens, ya know.
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Can't keep waiting for things, or you will never buy...
Still talking 2 months away, though I would guess expect an announcement earlier.
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Well, I have a friend working in Japan right now whom I'm going to visit at the end of October. We're both big Zaurus fans (I got my 5000d directly from a Sharp VP to write an evaluation on it when I worked for the University here...) and we were planning on picking up SLC-860's. I read here about the possibility of a new unit (which If it happens to be a major upgrade should be called the Sharp SLD-900, given Sharp's SLA-300, SLB-500, SLC-700 numbering) so we decided to wait.
Well, the store we were going to get the 860s at put them on sale for ~48500 yen ($570 Canadian), so that's out the window. One of my friends Japanese co-workers is going to pick them up for us today.
My friend will be there long enough that I hold out hope that I can pick up a new model one in January.
Why another one? I'll put PDAXrom on one, Cacko on the other!
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Just saw this on Mobile News (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/all/zaurus.html) (Japanese):
One of Sharp's exhibits at World PC Expo 2004 (Oct. 20-23) is called "ビジネスにエンターテイメントにパワーアップしたZAURUS" ("Powered-up Zaurus for business and entertainment"). No other details.
... and I was hoping they'd be releasing a new model at CEATEC next week, since I'm going to that. Doubt my boss will send me to WPC Expo this year. Oh well.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Sharp is going to have to pull out something special and also make it affordable and smaller (HP manage to cram a lot in a small space). Sadly, it appears that Sharp has given up on the PDA market outside of Japan.
There is intense competition in the PDA market in Europe and USA. Take a look at these VGA Pocket PC devices for example:
http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/iPAQ_hx4705.htm (http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/iPAQ_hx4705.htm)
http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/ASUS_A730.htm (http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/ASUS_A730.htm)
HP and other new market entrants like ASUS are churning out high specced PDAs like there's no tomorrow and the prices seem relatively reasonable. In fact those PDAs in the links above are missing just one thing IMHO... a hardware keyboard (oh and Linux but even then iPAQs seem to invariably get a Linux ROM eventually.) Shame I dislike the Pocket PC OS so much and well, have no money either...
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Got a few more bits of rumour today, but got sworn to secrecy. Sorry...
All I'll say is, assuming info I am getting is accurate, it may not be quite what you expected/hoped. Some unexpected pros, some disappointments.
Information (but not the devices) should be more widely available soon.
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Zuber:
Any idea if it will be shown at CEATEC, or are they waiting for WPC Expo?
I know that it will be at WPC, but I'm hoping they'll also show it next week since I'll be there.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Wasn't given that info as such, but I'd guess WPC Expo.
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Zuber, not sure how to interpret that. Suppose we'll just wait and see.
At this point, I'd be happy with a beefed up C860. Faster cpu, maybe some more ram, and I'd be fine. Built-in wifi would be nice, but I can always get a card for that.
As I play more with emulation on the thing, I'd love to see more horsepower under its hood.
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Zuber,
Just so I don't get excited about nothing. We are talking about a new clamshell model right? Just asking because I just realised that you never actually mentioned this. If this is the case, I believe any upgrade is better than none. After your comments, I am sort of no longer expecting the integrated Wifi. I guess that will be the dissapointment. But you dan't have to tell off course...
best regards,
Jan
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Any idea if it will be shown at CEATEC, or are they waiting for WPC Expo?
I know that it will be at WPC
Based on Sharp CEATEC Press Release (http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/040930_1.html) I guess CEATEC is aimed at the personal market, and WPC Expo is based on business - hence it's looking more likely any new Zaurus will be at WPC Expo, although I guess there's always a chance someone at CEATEC has one....
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I ended up at CEATEC earlier than I expected. I took a walk around the Sharp area; they're still setting up (CEATEC officially starts tomorrow), but I didn't see any sign of anything Zaurus related. So I guess it will be WPC, afterall.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Hi there,
If you see anythin at all, be sure to let us know Maybe the sharp reps are willing to talk?
regards,
Jan
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No, I didn't see anything. They didn't even have anything computer-related on display; all of their displays had to do with either cell phones or televisions (mostly televisions). I didn't bother asking anyone, either, as I figured that no one there would know anyways (being that there was nothing related on display); I also didn't bother them because everyone there (not just Sharp) was extremely busy getting ready for tomorrow.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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SL-5500: Cacko, 256mb SD
There is a Cacko ROM for the 5500? Can someone point me to a link where I can get it? All the Cacko ROM's I've seen have been for the c7x0/c8x0 series.
Cheers. . .
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Got a few more bits of rumour today, but got sworn to secrecy. Sorry...
All I'll say is, assuming info I am getting is accurate, it may not be quite what you expected/hoped. Some unexpected pros, some disappointments.
Information (but not the devices) should be more widely available soon.
Zuber, I have come across some highly speculative information about the next Zaurus Clamshell and was wondering is this more close to being right than wrong. I know you were sworn to secrecy and I would never ask you to violate your oath; therefore, can you give one wink if the following specs are close and 2 winks if they are way off base?
SL-C960
Windows CE .NET 5.0 or Portable Media Center
CPU Intel PXA270 624MHz + Intel 2700G multimedia accelerator chip
128MB ROM+128MB RAM
CF&SDIO, BT+wireless LAN, a USB host
800x480 wide liquid crystal
1.8 inch HDD built-in
If this is true, it appears Sharp realizes that the handheld race is really a two horse race between PPC & Palm OS handhelds. Also, handheld devices are moving more toward multimedia (esp. video playback) and the PPC has a bit of an advantage over Palm and it has the money of Microsoft pushing it.
One wink for close, two winks for off base.
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I'm afraid I'm going to stick with no comment.
Otherwise it becomes a game of 20 questions.
Apart from anything else, I am getting the information from someone, not first hand and so only got a partial picture. Don't want to end up with egg on my face...
I hope they don't go CE though, did not hear that from anywhere, would be disappointed, since there is already the Nexio on the market for people that are interested in that.
Also, getting some "real" windows units in this week (Sony U50/U70) so looking forward to playing with those.
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I can respect that Zuber, I had to try though. I would hate to see the Z go to Windows CE also, but if it did I would probably get one. The Z clamshell is by far the best hardware solution on the market no matter if you are looking for a handheld to replace your laptop or a personal video player. If Sharp wants to have a device on the market now that can compete with the host of PVP that have been released recently, it seems they have no choice but to go the route of Windows CE or Portable Media Center. Embedded linux is a bit behind providing video playback on par with Microsofts solutions.
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Zuber,
Better you had said nothing at all. It is absolute torture teasing us like that with snippits and table scraps.
J.
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Sorry, my plan was to "reveal all".
It is only after I posted that I got told the "Keep It Quite" clause. Anyway, it should not be a long wait till an announcement at least. Quite a bit longer to actual realease of course.
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SL-C960
Windows CE .NET 5.0 or Portable Media Center
CPU Intel PXA270 624MHz + Intel 2700G multimedia accelerator chip
128MB ROM+128MB RAM
CF&SDIO, BT+wireless LAN, a USB host
800x480 wide liquid crystal
1.8 inch HDD built-in
Apart from the OS that would be some mighty powerfull hardware. Seems almost too good to be true. To be honest, I do not expect this to happen, certainly not without sacrificing too much size and battery life... but I hope I am wrong. If true, I would get one no matter what OS. I am pretty sure that with hardware this attractive, a linux port will be available in the long run.
The reason I got my sl-c750 was two-fold: 1. Great hardware at the time. Still the only usable model with a built in keyboard. 2. Great OS, but the first reason was actually more important.
Jan
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I don't know what this site is all about, but I guess here is where you got the info...
http://pc5.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/linux/1095683092/98- (http://pc5.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/linux/1095683092/98-)
Somewhere in the middle of the page the same specs are mentioned.
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And I guess this is the announcement of the sharp activities at wpc
http://exponet.nikkeibp.co.jp/wpc2004/exhi...WPC04-0082.html (http://exponet.nikkeibp.co.jp/wpc2004/exhidir/exhibitor_WPC04-0082.html)
(you have to click through)
Anyone understand this?
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And I guess this is the announcement of the sharp activities at wpc
http://exponet.nikkeibp.co.jp/wpc2004/exhi...WPC04-0082.html (http://exponet.nikkeibp.co.jp/wpc2004/exhi...WPC04-0082.html)
(you have to click through)
Anyone understand this?
See my first post in this thread for a translation of the info regarding the Zaurus.
I don't know what this site is all about, but I guess here is where you got the info...
http://pc5.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/linux/1095683092/98- (http://pc5.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/linux/1095683092/98-)
Somewhere in the middle of the page the same specs are mentioned.
This page is a part of the 2ch 'mobile' forum. I've been following this recently... everyone on the forum is as much in the dark as we are here; people are listing specs, but most of them are just 'I wants' and 'I hopes'.
Since it looks like CEATEC is a no-show, I'd say the best thing to do is forget about it for a few weeks and just wait for WPC Expo on the 20th.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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This is a video player like the archos with the ability to also display digital tv channels, along with basics functions. But it's more a media centrer than a handheld
Link to the news and pics on http://externe.net/zaurus/ (http://externe.net/zaurus/) homepage
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I saw Sharp's portable digital tv receivers at CEATEC; they are part of the (poorly named) mobaHO! (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/article/news_toppage/20824.html) initiative. As can be seen on that link, Sharp isn't the only company developing this technology. Mobile tv has been kind of popular here as of late, with a lot of tv-capable cell phones having been released in the past year.
This has nothing to do with the Zaurus. A twisting screen alone does not a Zaurus make. The device isn't even a PDA (the only mention of PDA is that it can be viewed/held 'like a PDA').
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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This video player thing, sure has nothing to do with a 'zaurus' imo.
20th october ? Hmm we still have to wait 15 days ! Hopefully something will be annonced before
If the 960 really come with Windows CE .NET 5.0, but has very similar hardware inside (with minor differences like the ATI chipset) and the same 'bootmenu' etc, hopefully thats would be easy enough to hack to install linux on it. (Thats how i see it).
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This video player thing, sure has nothing to do with a 'zaurus' imo.
I agree, but it does show that Sharp is moving more into the PVP arena and some if not all of these capabilities can be incorporated into the Z. It seems that PIM and note taking functionality were the primary reasons we bought handhelds and now it appears these will be secondary reasons and multimedia is now primary.
This is why I tend to think that in order for the Z to have long term viablity, Sharp must incorporate more multimedia functionality because the day of the handheld being primarily for PIM and notetaking is over.
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Could it be that Sharp are making their second foray with WINCE - anyone remember the Mobilon ? - I would have thought that soured their taste for the M$ world.
The Zaurus is a special little unit at the moment but there have been previous Zaurii to the 5000 which had a proprietary OS so it's feasible that Sharp could decide to make the switch.
It would be particularly dissapointing for us I guess but we may be seen as niche users. So what if ?, does this become the Zaurus Linux User group ?
- Andy
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Sharp seems most comfortable at being a hardware company. Maintaining the software side of the Zaurus is where we all seem to have complaints. If I were Sharp, I would stick with what I do best...developing cutting edge, state-of-the-art hardware and leave the software development to someone else. I believe this is the direction Sharp is headed in ... ala partnership with IBM (software), partnership w/Danger to manufacture Hiptop so they can focus on software. If Sharp continues the Zaurus line, I think it will be because they decide to adopt a leading handheld OS (like WinCE or PMC) and stick to making great hardware. If this is true, I'm sure someone will figure out how to flash it w/linux.
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SL-5500: Cacko, 256mb SD
There is a Cacko ROM for the 5500? Can someone point me to a link where I can get it? All the Cacko ROM's I've seen have been for the c7x0/c8x0 series.
Cheers. . .
Go to the downloads section. Under the Roms heading, click on Cacko. That lists all their roms, including the ones for the 5000d/5500
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Here is a link someone forwarded to me.
Just to point out, I've not actually seen the new unit. So this may just be a proto...
http://www.mogya.com/zaurus/index.php?2004...%CE%BE%F0%CA%F3 (http://www.mogya.com/zaurus/index.php?2004%C7%AF%C7%AF%CB%F6%C8%AF%C7%E4%A1%A9%A4%CE%BF%B7%B7%BFZaurus%A4%CE%BE%F0%CA%F3)
Just a reminder, don't expect it on the shelves tomorrow.
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OMG, now THAT look like a zaurus follow-up And it is a CEATEC related link. So maybe there is a sharp zaurus rep at CEATEC?
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OMG indeed!
The name of the image file is “New_SL-Zaurus.jpgâ€
Look at that screen size compared to the 860 – it fits edge to edge – and the 4 way arrows have been replaced by what looks like a cursor ring.
Oh my, oh my, please let it be so!
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A better photo has been posted; go to the following page and click on 'newsl2.JPG':
http://cgi.f28.aaacafe.ne.jp/~agepan/cgi-bin/uploader.cgi (http://cgi.f28.aaacafe.ne.jp/~agepan/cgi-bin/uploader.cgi)
I'd say it's definitely a Zaurus, though whether a prototype or a final design I don't know.
Can't really tell much from just a picture of course, though a few things are noticeable:
- looks like the arrow keys have been replaced with a multidirectional pad, with a button in the middle (OK?) and one to the lower left (Cancel?).
- the Home, Mail, etc. buttons are now small nub buttons.
- there appears to be a lack of a CF slot on the right side.
- it looks thicker, though that might just be because the body doesn't slope down near the hinge.
... and that's all I can see. More if I hear it.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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On this (marginally :-) better picture however it looks like the screen size is the same as before : you can see the vertical row of icons on the right side and they're quite a way off from the lid's edge...
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It would be shame if Sharp didn't use a new 4" VGA screen on new SL model, wouldn't it?
-albertr
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Think Bluetooth & Wifi & SDIO & USB Host, is a good trade off to lose the CF slot ?
Of course if they included a HD, i guess nobody would really care about the CF slot =P
As for the post before mine, i think the screen is fine. I dont mind not having a 4" screen, and 3,6" fit well in my pocket. Not to mention its probably transreflective like the 6000
Wonder if that could include CDMA/GSM/GRPS (of course its japanese so i guess no) or a GPS Because i know there is GSM/CDMA/GPRS CF card, but i dont know any SD card with that.
WE WANT MORE INFO MORE MORE !
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I am pretty shure many would find it a shame to lose te CF. Personally I feel this would be a very good trade off, because I don't have any CF accesoires any more. The screen appears to be the same size as before indeed.
This was taken at CEATEC, so there must be someone there with more info...
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- there appears to be a lack of a CF slot on the right side.
I'm not so sure - there's a definite straight edge just next to the headphone socket - surely if it had the CF cover inplace the cover would be the same colour as the rest of the case - with such a low quality projected image, it's possible that its still there, just covered.
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I don't know, I like the hot stick babes.... It looks a bit too much like a UX-50 for me.
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From the two pictures, do you think it's a bit thick? or is it sitting on a docking station/expansion unit?
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if you refresh the screen the pic is built in layers the second layer is clear. the third layer add the distortion.
doesn't look like there is a cf card slot looks about same thickness.
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Zjack: I thought so too, but then I noticed the headphone jack there. I think it's just deceiving how large it is. Also, perhaps instead of needing the cover for the larger battery, Sharp just included it automatically?
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OK, I think there is a CF slot, minor adjustments in GIMP reveal some extra contrast around this region... looks like a CF blank to me..
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So, I reckon there were no more revelations at ceatec? ashikase, didn't see or hear anything?
I guess the next occasion will be the WPC expo? Zuber, I know you can't give any more details, but do you perhaps know when an announcement will be made?
regards,
Jan
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loopy29:
Nope, looks like nothing came out of CEATEC other than the teaser shot.
As mentioned before, Sharp is listed as having a Zaurus display at WPC Expo 2004. The expo starts next Wednesday (20th). I don't know if there will be an official announcement before then or not.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Damn, they should have taken a picture of that hi-res monitor right in front of them instead of that projection on the stage...it probably would have resulted in a much better picture for us to play with...hehe
I will be play with it in Gimp to see if I can reveal anything not already mentioned...
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Hello all
well I've seen this in a french forum
SL-C3000 (http://www.pdafrance.com/pdaforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43865)
It's seems to be the new zaurus.
Ir came from a user that lives in japan.
The specs
SL-C3000
Hard drive 4 Go
Intel PX270 416MHz
Flash16MB/SDRAM64MB
SD Card
CF card
VGA 3,7'
USB
hearphone
Infrared
Battery life 7h
298g
124*87*25mm
price 68800 yens
Available 10 november in japan....
I don't know if it's true or not.....
Is it the same that your information Zuber ?
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Hard drive 4 Go
Intel PX270 416MHz
Flash16MB/SDRAM64MB
416 mhz cpu? It better be a hell of a lot faster than the PXA255. I'm guessing it has some tweaked performance and better power consumption, but it seems underwhelming, numberically. A little hard drive would be nifty, but more ram would be nice, too.
Here's to hoping we get some confirmation on this soon. Should be another show coming up right soon in Japan, right?
I also noticed no integrated wifi or bluetooth. That's sure to make some people unhappy if true.
And here's to hoping they slap a beefier cpu in it. I want a lean, mean, linux machine in my pocket that'll run Doom, Quake, and emulators at full bore. I'm not asking for much.
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Hopefully that isn't true. It would be a major dissapointment.
The spec seems very similar to the current 860 all you get for an extra 20000yen is a hard drive. That won't have me running out to buy one!
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I just read about this on the 2ch forums... it seems that some people received this information in an e-mail. It also sounds like there might be an official announcement tomorrow.
A lot of people in the forums are pretty disappointed, assuming the info is real... people are asking where the WiFi is.
A side note... apparently the e-mail also announced a new battery, the EA-BL11, which is supposed to work for the Cx60 models as well.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Well, If the USB is USB host, and the inclusion of a HD is correct, I would not be dissapointed. Integrated wifi was on my wishlist, but at least you don't need the CF for storage anymore...
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http://www.mogya.com/zaurus/index.php?2004...%ce%be%f0%ca%f3 (http://www.mogya.com/zaurus/index.php?2004%c7%af%c7%af%cb%f6%c8%af%c7%e4%a1%a9%a4%ce%bf%b7%b7%bfZaurus%a4%ce%be%f0%ca%f3)
From this link, I obtained a bit more information about the new device. (This is the same place that brought us the first pictures.)
This is a rough translation with my limited Japanese skills,
Other than the previously mentioned stuff, the site says that it will include the Koujien, japans most famous and complete dictionary. It also will include the Genius English to Japanese and Japanese to English dictionary. While this is good news for us Japanese students maybe not for those of you who don't want to pay for very expensive dictionaries you probably won't use. Considering these are huge dictionaries it might explain why this thing has got the built in hard drive.
It doesn't say anything about USB host but it does use the PXA 270 which unlike the PXA 255 enables this from what I understand.
Also of note is that it mentions 3 hard drive sizes.
It says 4GB hard drive, but user area 3. (Maybe to make up for those dictionaries)
It also says 6GB hard drive and then something like shipment #2, but I don't know how to translate this exactly so don't trust me.
Then it says 9GB hard drive and something about it being empty? I'm not sure on this one at all and I don't really know how to translate it.
Maybe someone can help with my translations?
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Here is some more information on the PXA270 processor:
http://www.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/253820.htm (http://www.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/253820.htm)
Sounds interesting.
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Here is some more information on the PXA270 processor:
http://www.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/253820.htm (http://www.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/253820.htm)
Sounds interesting.
with "Wireless MMX et SpeedStep" functions...
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Wow.. I'm dissapointed
Hopefully the price of the C860 drops, I guess I'll be getting that.
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<SNIP>
Also of note is that it mentions 3 hard drive sizes.
It says 4GB hard drive, but user area 3. (Maybe to make up for those dictionaries)
It also says 6GB hard drive and then something like shipment #2, but I don't know how to translate this exactly so don't trust me.
Then it says 9GB hard drive and something about it being empty? I'm not sure on this one at all and I don't really know how to translate it.
Maybe someone can help with my translations?
Personally I would much rather use the CF slot sometimes (and sacrifice it's use for WIFI) to use a nice removable Microdrive. The last thing I want is a built-iin hard drive I cannot replace when it dies or has a head crash (especially if I have to send it all the way to Japan). Also, With a 1GB SD card, space with WIFI in CF is a non-issue...meaning I have more than enough for the occacional download. (When the microdrive is out and WIFI is in)
IMHO a second CF slot would make better sense and be alot cheaper and versatile.
And a second SD slot capable of SDIO would be great as well ( and in addtion to the extra CF).
This new machine doesn't make much sense since it seems to have considerably less RAM/Flash than the C860...and the CPU upgrade is quite marginal (although I do not know much about the PXA270).
What would make it more laughable would be a screen upgrade to 800x600....insofar as we are currently lacking the CPU to drive even the 640x480 screen we've got (for movies). Of course for surfing in that RES would be a nice addition....but at 4 inches I think that would be a wasted effort in an upgrade (it would have to come with a pair of reading glasses)....better to upgrade the expansion, memory, CPU, battery life amd support.....(Sharp: what is this support thing the users keep asking for? )
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It says 4GB hard drive, but user area 3. (Maybe to make up for those dictionaries)
It also says 6GB hard drive and then something like shipment #2, but I don't know how to translate this exactly so don't trust me.
Then it says 9GB hard drive and something about it being empty? I'm not sure on this one at all and I don't really know how to translate it.
Actually, what it says is that it includes a 4GB hdd, 3.6GB usable (most likely due to formatting). The unit is shipped with 2.9GB free... the other 700MB is probably used for dictionaries/included software.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Available for preorder:
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/iget/539211/483230/577341/ (http://www.rakuten.co.jp/iget/539211/483230/577341/)
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Verryyy interesting...
I like it I think. What is that middle thing on the front? Also, do the keys look stretched to anyone else?
It also looks thicker than the c860, but that could be the combination of the new battery and hard drive. And why is there so much wasted space for the screen?
I don't think it's worth leaving my c860 for.
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Ugh. How underwhelming.
I can live with the 64MB of memory since I can run everying with my current 5500 setup (40-48MB depending on swap size). I can live with screen size although I was hoping they could cram a 4 inch screen into the design. A hard drive? I think somebody in marketing thought this would be appealing. With 1GB+ SD cards, I think it is a waste of space and an energy sink. No wi-fi? Argh. That really bites. Oh well I guess that is what they think the CF slot is for.
USB host is nice (but just barely)...Does this model include SDIO? Does anyone know if our current Z connectors/cradles and cables will work with the SL-C3k?
Oh well, I guess we will just have to wait and see what the official announcement will contain. How long was it between the 700, 750, 760, 860 releases? Maybe Sharp will do they same for the 3k (he said with waning hope).
J.
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hmm, battery life doesn't look so good, the site that ashikase gives says that it has battery life of 7h showing only the calendar and backlight on minimum.
seems like either the battery is smaller or the hdd eats through the battery, wonder how long you get watching movies or using CF cards
Stu
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Underwhelmed is right. I was really looking forward to the next Z but its not much of a step above what I'm already running (reference signature). No built-in wifi or BT? What is Sharp thinking?
The one thing that keeps me even mildly interested is waiting to hear what type of video performance the PXA270 delivers. I would love smooth video playback of Divx or MPEG4 at 30 or more fps. However, if the changes Maslovsky is making to the Kino2 mplayer (the feature video player in the next Cacko Rom upgrade) yield a significant performance boost, I will have no need to upgrade to the SL-C3K.
Looks like I'll pass on this one and wait for the next Z upgrade where Sharp realizes their mistake and gets it right (integrated wifi, bluetooth, more memory, 800x480 screen visible in direct sunlight, and so on).
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Ashikase or anyone,
any information about whether the ROM has been upgraded? I would imagine it would be in order to optimize it to the PXA270. Hopefully, there are other features that can be incorporated into the new Cacko, OZ or PdaXrom for all of us who will be holding on to what we have for a little bit longer.
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Official announcement from Sharp:
http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-a.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-a.html)
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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I'm with the others...
Underwhelming, especially the battery life. >.> My 5600 (which actually has the biggest Z battery ever, something like 1800mAh, or was it 1700mAh...), gets who-knows how much life without my WCF12 on (unless I use the WCF12 I have, I have to recharge it once every few weeks with the use I give it - not a lot of use, but I use it a fair bit). With the WCF12 actively web-browsing I get over 2 hours. Probably closer to 3.
Just 7 hours on low backlight with calendar? Pretty pathetic... :/
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nathanwms:
Not much information available about the OS; the one noticeable point is that it apparently uses Lineo ulinux instead of Embedix (Lineo was once part of Embedix, though, so how different the new version is, I don't know).
One thing that I'm personally interested in is the included 'multimedia dictionary'. Of course, those not studying Japanese could probably care less.
I'm curious as to whether the C3k includes the 2700G graphics chip. Some more info on the chip and the PXA270:
http://www.smartphonetoday.com/articles/20...ils-Newest.html (http://www.smartphonetoday.com/articles/2004/4/2004-4-12-Intel-Unveils-Newest.html)
In other news, Sharp has also announced that they will soon be releasing a version of Picsel Browser for the Zaurus. Picsel Browser is a web browser with support for a wide variety of files, including PDF and FLASH.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Well.
Huh.
Okay....
Not quite what I expected. Of all the things I would have thought to integrate into the PDA, the HD storage wouldn't be one of them.
So, the devil is in the details on this one. Does it have USB Host? Is the screen the same as the previous clamshells, or is it a 3.7" version of the transreflective screen in the 6000? Does it have SDIO?
Anyone have benchmarks comparing the pxa255/400 and the pxa270/416?
USB host would make me buy it. A transreflective screen would make me think about it. Otherwise...a built in HD is nice, but not what we really needed. The guts of the 6000 shoehorned into the clamshell case is more or less what we *wanted*. Instead, they shove a HD in an 860 (Which sucks juice *all* the time, and which we can't shut off like built in wifi) which is going to be invalidated with cheap CF Microdrives early next year anyway.
Aargh!
I'll probably buy one anyway, but all I can say is that those built in dictionaries had better be damn good.
OTOH, if they make the HD swapable (IE: a CF TYPE II slot dedicated to a microdrive as their "internal" hd) it might not be so bad.
Chances are no, though.
Damndamndamndamndamn.
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More pics... check out the location of the SD slot (-_-;)
http://image.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles...5/l_sa_zau3.jpg (http://image.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0410/15/l_sa_zau3.jpg)
http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau.jpg (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau.jpg)
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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More pics... check out the location of the SD slot (
http://image.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles...5/l_sa_zau3.jpg (http://image.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0410/15/l_sa_zau3.jpg)
http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau.jpg (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau.jpg)
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
Looks like that first image doesn't like to be linked to directly. The url for the story is:
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0...15/news032.html (http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0410/15/news032.html)
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Sharp really, chrome? CHROME??? That was not the higher quality finish I was looking for. I was hoping more for something like magnesium, carbon, aluminium, rubberized plastic, .... You can hardly use this one in business meetings now can you...
Plusses:
*Keys look nice
*USB (I assume host) is good,
*included HD is good in a sense that it gives you a lot of room
*Upgraded (but barely) processor. OTOH, it is the processor that gives USB host, so it IS a quite significant upgrade in that regard.
Bad:
*chrome...
*No built in communication technologies
*included HD is bad because it sucks juice...
*Screen is no bigger although they certainly could have made it bigger (but the hd is already sucking too much battery I guess...
*Processor not upgraded enough
Will probably get a 860 when they drop in price... Or this one if the price is reasonable in Europe and the HD can be swapped easily when busted or bigger better models appear. Hmmm. Might even sell my ipod...
Damn, I was hoping to be overwhelmed, but now I am just confused... c860 or c3000?
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By the way, what is the port on the back here
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0...15/news032.html (http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0...15/news032.html) (the second picture from the end)
It is not SD (that is on the front).
Am I imagining things or does the cover seem to contain a "transmission" symbol - as in 3 curves extending from the center like this ))) only from small to big.
A wifi upgrade port?
probably just dreaming though...
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Not Rumor...... has offical annoucement.
http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-a.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-a.html)
--------------------
ZaurusHK
http://led.e-fever.org/zaurus/ (http://led.e-fever.org/zaurus/)
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Come to think of it, Zuber, does al this information conform with what you had received? Do you know some more specifics? Inclusion of usb host? Inclusion of graphics accelerator chip? Possible wireless facilities?
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However, if the changes Maslovsky is making to the Kino2 mplayer (the feature video player in the next Cacko Rom upgrade) yield a significant performance boost, I will have no need to upgrade to the SL-C3K.
Just wanted to clarify - it's not me who's making changes to the mplayer - it's a result of excellent job by a Japanese guy from http://atty.jp/ (http://atty.jp/). But I'm updating kino2 to fully use features of this new mplayer version.
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It seems from reading through a translation on the SL-C3K that the basic unit only has 16Mb flash and that the HD format is in FAT to allow users to use the device in storage mode as an external HDD.
I wonder if it's going to be awkward to put a real file system on that HDD as this is going to essentially be the home file system - I'm presuming all that 16Mb flash is ro root only.
Now I'm wondering about performance if this is a Microdrive format. What's it going to be like if you DO get your HDD formatted at ext3 etc. and actually install applications on it.
Could be a number of issues there for pioneers.....
- Andy
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Info I received was not that detailed.
As I said
All I'll say is, assuming info I am getting is accurate, it may not be quite what you expected/hoped. Some unexpected pros, some disappointments.
I was told USB Host, but can't see it mentioned in specs. Perhaps it is a case of no drivers means no point till they have some etc.
I was hoping the unit would stay the same size, shape. That way, all accessories would be compatible. Looks like they have changed it just enough to stop cases, mounts etc. from working. Shame...
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The whole thing seems a real missed opportunity.
On paper the the c860 still looks more desireable right now, considering the 3000 will cost more.
Will the lack of internal memory really compensated by the hard drive?
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Today's article about it at "The Register":
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/linux_4gb_hdd_pda/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/linux_4gb_hdd_pda/)
Cheers,
Tony.
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Not Rumor...... has offical annoucement.
I think as we now know that it is called SL-C3000 and no longer a rumour, we should open a new thread.
-- hns
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... will cost more.
Will the lack of internal memory really compensated by the hard drive?
Not necessarily. HDD capacity costs approx. 1/4 of the same capacity CF. So it would be the same price to expect as for a C860 with 1GB CF Flash but having 4GB.
SDRAM seems to be 64MB (according to The Register) and flash only 16MB compared to 64MB / 128MB of the C860. If this is replaced by 64MB / 4112MB I would consider that a great deal! Only the SDRAM could have become 128MB - but SDRAM is the most expensive type of memory.
-- hns
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So we still have 64mb for the operating system?
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I think I'd still rather have a 1GB SD card.
I'm thinking of power consumption, noise levels and the reliability now that we have moving parts.
If only it had wifi, I could have forgiven almost anything. I really don't like having a cf card sticking out the side...
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At the end of the day, you can't satisfy everyone. If they include WiFi but not Bluetooth, then Bluetooth fans will moan and vice versa. If they include both, the price goes even higher and people moan they only use one and managing several different models like the SL-6000 pushes up costs again.
I think Sharp are trying to do something a bit different again while keeping the device flexible and I applaud them for that. What they should do is include some nice plug'n play software for both WiFi and Bluetooth.
64MB of RAM is still double what the 5600 has so I'd be happy with that. Since I have a Bluetooth CF card and no WiFi stuff I'd be happy having a large internal hard drive too so I could always keep the Bluetooth card in the CF slot. SD cards tend to be too flakey or too slow for doing things like making voice recordings or playing videos, so I think this is the right way to go. If only I could justify the expenditure
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I guess the real question is:
How long will it take the Cacko and X guys to get their operating systems on it???
Because it will be useless, at keast for the less able of us, until they do. It doesn't matter what the spec is!
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So we still have 64mb for the operating system?
I think the 64MB are the operating system working space. The OS itself (all those /bin commands and /lib contents) can now use much more.
And: a part of a HDD can usually be used as virtual memory (I don't know if they have drivers for that but pdaXROM or OZ might solve)! So, I think it is not a real limitation to anything (but speed).
And if we compare with my first Apple G4 Powerbook: It came with 128MB RAM, 10GB disk and a 400MHz PowerPC processor. So the C3000 is not far away from such a spec.
-- hns
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The 64 Mb is the same as for the current C860. For actual running of apps. i.e. PC type conventional ram.
Anyone know what the "port" on the back is. The one that looks like it is an SD slot but isn't ?
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A couple thoughts on some of the points folks have been raising:
Built in HD uses too much power - not necessarily. I have a 4GB Hitachi drive that I keep in the CF slot of my 760 most of the time (I only take it out to use WiFi or Bluetooth) and it has no noticeable impact on battery life unless I use it extensively (playing music or video). CF hard drives have an excellent power saving mode and spin down completely when not being accessed. This works much better than power saving on a standard hard drive because the tiny platter takes very little power and time to spin back up. Combined with the fact that Linux is pretty good at keeping the right stuff cached means that CF disks really work well in the Zaurus without a big battery impact.
Should have had built in wireless - this is a device designed for the Japanese market. If I'm not mistaken, the popular mode of on-the-go internet access there is via DoCoMo's mobile phone network. I don't think there are many Bluetooth enabled DoCoMo phones so built in Bluetooth doesn't make sense. Likewise, market research I've seen shows WiFi for home networking is less prevalent in Japan, so no justification for built in 802.11.
I don't see the C3000 replacing many C series clamshells in the US, but that doesn't mean that Sharp has missed the mark. The C3000 may actually be very well suited to their target market.
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more info/pics:
http://digit.que.ne.jp/visit/index.cgi?Lin...b9%2fSL%2dC3000 (http://digit.que.ne.jp/visit/index.cgi?Linux%a5%b6%a5%a6%a5%eb%a5%b9%2fSL%2dC3000)
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0...15/news032.html (http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0410/15/news032.html)
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The pictures show a USB host socket on the back, so it must support USB host, you can see the USB logo just above it.
Mike
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Just my quick opinions:
1) Built in HD, which some people bemoan, is actuallly a HUGE step. Ever since MDs hit the market, people have been clamouring for a PDA/cellphone with a built in MD. It's the first PDA to ever have a built in drive, which opens up the possibilties (hence, little flash memory necessary). Some think that it sucks batteries, but the newer MDs do not consume appreciably more juice than regular CF. However, spinup/spindown time might become an issue. Either way, this is a big marketing bullet - which alone might get them a significant amount of sales. BTW, I wouldnt worry too much about the MD dying - it should be fairly trivial to replace it with not much more than a small screwdriver and patience. I do agree with the other poster that it would be amazing if it were easily changeable (imagine that).
2) Non-lighted keyboard? WTF? This is the fourth gen unit and STILL no backlit keys?!?!?! ARGH.
3) Biggest dissapointment - why is it still the old 3.7" screen? The housing would have easily fit the SL6000 4" screen!! ARGH. If this isn't transflective, there's gonna be hell to pay.
4) No wifi/bt - they clearly didnt want to commit to either, and chose to address memory. This is a quite a cop-out as there are many single chip/dual radio solutions on the market nowadays. Both Sony and Dell have done it - why can't Sharp? I think "Didnt want to" might be the answer.
5) I really think 64mb ram could have easily been 128mb with little to no change in price. Sheesh, ram is dirt cheap. However this may be moot, given that no _built in apps_ ever get close to maxing out this usage.
6) I swear to ghod, that if Sharp left all that empty space underneath the unit (the big battery cover), they should be taken out back and shot! That space could easily have housed a large antenna, or another CF, or etc.etc.etc.
7) Ashikase indicated that the EA-BL11 1800mah battery might fit the C-xxx units. This alone might be the best thing to come out of this whole launch.
8) I do like the new directional pad though - this should have been how it was done in the first place. However, why shrink the size of the app keys and not use the extra space to make the keyboard buttons larger?! As it stands, the app keys are just harder to press...
IMO, Sharp's PDA department is showing clear signs of having their funding cut. This unit bears the look of many compromises.
Yz
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Quote from http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?NewsID=2429 (http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?NewsID=2429)
It is Windows Media Audio (WMA) compatible and plays Mpeg-2 video. It has the Lineo uLinux operating system, and can act as an external hard drive. Users can drag and drop Microsoft Office software, such as Word and Excel and files, and the full range of image files onto it. It can store about 700 MP3s.
Sharp decided not to add Java to the new model
The SL-C3000 will be on sale in Japan on 10 November for ¥80,000 (roughly £500).
Mike
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2) Non-lighted keyboard? WTF? This is the fourth gen unit and STILL no backlit keys?!?!?! ARGH.
Probably because it's yet another source of battery drain.
3) Biggest dissapointment - why is it still the old 3.7" screen? The housing would have easily fit the SL6000 4" screen!! ARGH. If this isn't transflective, there's gonna be hell to pay.
From translations of the specs, it looks like its the same transmissive display as the other clamshell models sadly.
4) No wifi/bt - they clearly didnt want to commit to either, and chose to address memory. This is a quite a cop-out as there are many single chip/dual radio solutions on the market nowadays. Both Sony and Dell have done it - why can't Sharp? I think "Didnt want to" might be the answer.
I don't buy that. The SL-6000W has both WiFi and Bluetooth, but it doesn't look like it has sold well in Japan. Remeber that they're targetting the Japanese market that has CF cards for many high speed/3G mobile connections.
7) Ashikase indicated that the EA-BL11 1800mah battery might fit the C-xxx units. This alone might be the best thing to come out of this whole launch.
It should have had a bigger battery than this considering all that it is capable of.
8) I do like the new directional pad though - this should have been how it was done in the first place.
I would like to see a d-pad below the screen too, for use in typical PDA portrait mode. This would be especially useful for EON Games.
It's also incredibly expensive. If Sharp would correct a few minor flaws and make it a little more of an incremental upgrade, they could probably have faith in selling loads and hence mass produce more to bring the price right down. Considering they don't have to pay a Micro$oft tax either it is way overpriced when compared to other PDAs.
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The 64 Mb is the same as for the current C860. For actual running of apps. i.e. PC type conventional ram.
Anyone know what the "port" on the back is. The one that looks like it is an SD slot but isn't ?
I was going to say that it was the Sharp IO port, but at second glance, it really doesn't look that big.
Incidently, the Sharp's web page has an icon on it that says "Hard Drive by Hitachi", which pretty much wraps up what kind of tech they're using for storage - 4 gig CF Type II HD, just like the Muvo2 and iPod Mini. Chances are no one is going to strip the drive out of the Z, though.
Replacing it with a large capacity solid state CF card for power conservation and/or shock resistance might be an interesting project.
Damn. I don't *want* to spend $900 Canadian on one of these things, but I'm probably going to have to.
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Hey! Now the keyboard has a Control key!
http://image.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles...5/l_sa_zau3.jpg (http://image.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0410/15/l_sa_zau3.jpg)
http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau/01.jpg (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau/01.jpg)
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0...15/news032.html (http://www.itmedia.co.jp/mobile/articles/0410/15/news032.html)