OESF Portables Forum
Everything Else => Sharp Zaurus => Model Specific Forums => Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums => Archived Forums => C1000/3x00 General discussions => Topic started by: runixd on October 15, 2004, 07:16:11 am
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I thought I'll open a new thread as new zaurus seems to be officially announced on sharp.co.jp. I gathered the specs, using online translator:
Name: Zaurus SL-C3000
OS : Linux®(Lineo uLinux)
memory : Flash memory 16MB/SDRAM 64MB (work area)
CPU : Intel® XScaleTM(PXA270 at 416MHz)
Hard disk : Approximately 4GB (User area 3.6GB of which available 2.9GB)
Screen : 640×480 dot, 3.7 type 65,536 color transmitted type system liquid crystal ( backlit)
Input : Keyboard and input board
Infrared : IrDA system (115kbps
Ports : USB port, stereo headphone
Card slot : SD card slot ×1, compact flash slot (Type II)
Power : DC3.7V, 1800mAh lithium ion charge pond, approximately 7 hours
weight : Approximately 298g
dimensions : Width 124mm, depth approximately 87mm× thickness 25mm
Available Working Extension Cards:
GSM(?): - P2402 - http://foma.nttdocomo.co.jp/terminal/card/...2/p2402_01.html (http://foma.nttdocomo.co.jp/terminal/card/p2402/p2402_01.html) (jap)
- VC701SI - http://www.vodafone.jp/japanese/service/vg...rd/vc701si.html (http://www.vodafone.jp/japanese/service/vgs/product/card/vc701si.html) (jap)
WiFi: - GW-CF11H / GW-CF110 - http://www.planex.net/product/bwave/gwcf11h.shtml (http://www.planex.net/product/bwave/gwcf11h.shtml) (eng)
- WLI2-CF-S11 / WLI-CF-S11G - http://www.airstation.com/english/products/wli-cf-s11g.html (http://www.airstation.com/english/products/wli-cf-s11g.html) (eng)
- CG-WLCFL11 / CG-WLCF11 - http://www.corega.co.jp/product/list/wireless/wlcf11.htm (http://www.corega.co.jp/product/list/wireless/wlcf11.htm) (jap)
- ADLINK345CF - http://www.adtec.co.jp/parts/ADLINK345CF.html (http://www.adtec.co.jp/parts/ADLINK345CF.html) (jap)
- WN-B11/CF - http://www.iodata.jp/prod/network/wnlan/2002/wn-b11cf/ (http://www.iodata.jp/prod/network/wnlan/2002/wn-b11cf/) (jap)
LAN: - CF-10T - http://www.planex.co.jp/product/pccard/cf10t.shtml (http://www.planex.co.jp/product/pccard/cf10t.shtml) (jap)
- CG-ECFTD - http://www.corega.co.jp/product/list/lanadp/ecftd.htm (http://www.corega.co.jp/product/list/lanadp/ecftd.htm) (jap)
- LPC-CF-CLT - http://buffalo.melcoinc.co.jp/products/cat...m/l/lpc-cf-clt/ (http://buffalo.melcoinc.co.jp/products/catalog/item/l/lpc-cf-clt/) (jap)
- CF56R-BJ - http://www.ibsjapan.com/CF56R-BJ.htm (http://www.ibsjapan.com/CF56R-BJ.htm) (jap]
modem: - CF-M56D - http://www.corega.co.jp/product/list/others/cfm56d.htm (http://www.corega.co.jp/product/list/others/cfm56d.htm) (jap)
output: - CFXGA - http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/cfxga/trans.html (http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/cfxga/trans.html) (eng)
memory: Other:- CS64CF - http://www.sun-denshi.co.jp/scc/products/m...64cf/cs64cf.htm (http://www.sun-denshi.co.jp/scc/products/mobile/cs64cf/cs64cf.htm) (jap)
[img]http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/images/041015-a.gif\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
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Mini review:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/linux_4gb_hdd_pda/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/linux_4gb_hdd_pda/)
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Some links:
Zurus page: http://ezaurus.com/ (http://ezaurus.com/)
Zaurus specs: http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-a-2.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-a-2.html)
Add ons: http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/slc3000/text/option.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/slc3000/text/option.html)
About HDD: http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/slc3000/text/4gbhd.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/slc3000/text/4gbhd.html)
Translator: http://www.worldlingo.com/products_service...translator.html (http://www.worldlingo.com/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html)
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Link to previous thread discussing this, for those that want to catch up:
https://www.oesf.org/forums/inde...?showtopic=7262 (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7262)
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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And more pictures :
Here (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/slc30002.html)
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A pretty good review (Japanese):
http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/slc30002.html (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/slc30002.html)
(EDIT: Cyril92 beat me to the punch as I was typing...)
A few points:
- according to this article, the usb port doesn't include host functionality
- the kernel is 2.4.20
- qt is still 1.5.4
- the reviewer claims that the speed feels similar to the c860
- didn't see any mention as to what the 'mystery port' in the back is... many in the 2ch forums are wondering the same thing
I can only hope that Sharp is already working on the next model.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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First quick impression:
NOT GOOD !!! WHAT are they doing, launching THIS !! a year later from their last release (860) ... IF I wanted 4 gb of storage, I would definitely go for pure memory, not for a mechanincal device. Also I think that a HD by itself, 16mhz more of speed (yes, I know, processor PXA270 should have some other improvements, I hope) and a circular thingy widgety to move the cursor (or whatever) is something like a bluff.
Sorry I am a bit mad, I can't believe sharp is getting something with so lame improvements on the market ... it just should cost them so much money to launch a new product, that they would better be still on the drawing design board, doing a better engineering work, with that money than give light to this gadget.
Anyway, dont take mee too seriously ... I will continue reading all press releases and stuff to see if there is any other surprise that balances things up for this 3000 zaurus
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Both topics now merged.
I think this won't be worth upgrading to. It's only for those storage buffs. I would have preferred it to have built in wifi so we could sort out our own storage solutions with the CF / SD slots. Also, with the advent of 600+MHz Intel XSCALE CPU's they've really skimped on processing power AND SDRAM.
Overall it's just a minor upgrade in my eyes. I'm going to stick with my C860 (when it arrives..) and be happy with it, especially with the latest pdaXrom release
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Boo!!! C860 is queen. - please let her stay queen, as mine works great!
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And more pictures :
Here (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/slc30002.html)
Don't know if you noticed but Lineo have been at the Kernel again.... it seems this new device is cutting the leading edge of kernels with it's..... 2.4.20 kernel.... WHAT are those guys thinking of. RMK has already said that he isn't going to help out with ANY more 2.4 Kernels.
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Screen : 640×480 dot, 3.7 type 65,536 color transmitted type system liquid crystal
Uh oh. There may be translation problems, but that sounds like a transmissive screen only, like on the other clamshell models and not like the transflective screen on the 6000. Bummer
I wonder how long it will be before HP comes out with an iPAQ clamshell that has a VGA screen, builtin in WiFi, Bluetooth, GSM, and the kitchen sink, like they are including with their usual portrait PDA models. Or perhaps they will just update The iPAQ 4350 (http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/ipaq4350.htm) to include a VGA screen and CF II slot. That with Familiar/OZ would be nice
As has been pointed out, Sharp are targetting the Japenese consumer who has different wants to the US and European consumer and considering the success of the Zaurus in Japan, Sharp certainly knows their target market.
Also I guess the problem with including builtin WiFi at the moment is there are some new standards that are going to appear shortly. But I can see having a WiFi antena sticking out of the CF slot being a pain.
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didn't see any mention as to what the 'mystery port' in the back is... many in the 2ch forums are wondering the same thing
The standard Sharp Zaurus connector? Would be a bit foolish for them to get rid of this I reckon.
My understanding was that the PXA270 could act as a USB host?: http://www.intel.com/design/embeddedpca/ap...sors/302302.htm (http://www.intel.com/design/embeddedpca/applicationsprocessors/302302.htm)
I agree it's a shame about the kernel.
Si
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lardman:
Most likely, it _is_ the I/O connector; the specs list both a USB port and an I/O port.
The thing is, if it's true that USB host functionality isn't included, what's the point of having both ports? There seems to be a lot of conflicting reports on the USB host issue.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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So sad to see this announcement. In my opinion Sharp missed a huge opportunity as all they really had to change on c860 to have a perfect machine was the following (not hard as they already have all the components):
1. USB host
2. Better screen to use outdoors (ie. sl-c6000) and less waiste of screen real estate
3. New processor with MMX-speedstep
4. Nice to have and probably not to hard to do would be more memory (256 would be nice) and better battery (may not be critical if the speedstep processor works as advertised)
4G hard drive is a joke at this point as soon you can buy CF or SD for under $200 (ok if they put a >20G hard drive maybe I could see the point but this just makes no sense). Any combination of built in wifi/blutooth/gps/gprs etc would also be nice but only provided it can be turned off to save power. I personally would be quite happy to just keep using add-on cards for communications.
All the pieces are there and it's so puzling that they did not realize this. Software and kernel do not matter so much as OZ and pdaXrom are maturing to the point that it's hard to imagine Sharp doing a better job anyway.
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What a half-assed model. I hope HP comes up with a clamshell design soon, I just lost my last bit of faith in Sharp...
-albertr
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Wow, lots of negative replies! I have to say that I'm impressed with this new model. Think about it, now you can have 4GB of storage to use while using a CF LAN/WiFi card. The most storage you can get right now while having an internet connection, practically, is 1GB on SD.
Yeah, not having USB host sucks, but I think it's a nice looking model.
Having said that, I wouldn't get one to replace my 750 just yet.
Did anyone else see the EA-BL11 battery here (http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/slc3000/text/option.html)? I wonder how much better it is than the BL08, and if it would fit in the Cxx0 models...
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It looks to me like Sharp is trying to target a very different audience. It has a huge dictionary, it has storage and has no features. Almost like the reason they put linux on it in the first place is to cut operating system expenses. With this new model it makes more sence why it is only offered in japan and not anywhere else.
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Almost like the reason they put linux on it in the first place is to cut operating system expenses.
Yet it is still more expensive than most Pocket PCs, but I think production/sales volumes have more to do with this.
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Sharp was _so_ close... yet they let it slip...
Now that the announcements have sunken in I am getting more and more dissapointed.
minus:
* the device has grown
* screen isn't improved
* the finish looks toy-ish (big letdown for me)
* no USB-host
* no keyboard backlight
* no integrated comms
* hardly any speed improvements
* No java (as a java programmer, this is a bummer although it probably isn't too hard to add later.)
plus:
* 4GB HD (although some seem to disagree, I think this is an important plus)
Dissapointing. They _indeed_ better not try to release it in the rest of the world. It would be a catastrophe...
If only HP/dell/Asus would release a clamshell with twisty screen...
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From: http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?NewsID=2429 (http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?NewsID=2429)
The Zaurus is also designed to work with a wide range of devices. It has an SD memory card slot, USB and irDA infrared ports and wireless LAN capability. It also has a CompactFlash card slot.
Why would you say "wireless LAN capability" and then say that it also has a CF slot?
Si
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Wow, lots of negative replies! I have to say that I'm impressed with this new model. Think about it, now you can have 4GB of storage to use while using a CF LAN/WiFi card. The most storage you can get right now while having an internet connection, practically, is 1GB on SD.
Yeah, not having USB host sucks, but I think it's a nice looking model.
Having said that, I wouldn't get one to replace my 750 just yet.
Did anyone else see the EA-BL11 battery here (http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/slc3000/text/option.html)? I wonder how much better it is than the BL08, and if it would fit in the Cxx0 models...
As far as hard drive, it just "feels" like SD cards of that size are around the corner (Sandidsk already has 2G if I remember correctly). But even if you accept that hard
drive makes sense how do you explain less memory? I can't believe Sharp did that unless this is really targeted to different audience (who don't want mini-laptop as well as pda in one package) - but if that's the case then why is this even a clamshell with a keyboard?
About the best I can see about this release is that at least they did not drop Linux.
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* no USB-host
This is not confirmed, or is it? I was pretty sure that the PXA270 could act as a host, even if they've not taken advantage of this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Si
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I would just note that it has not been confirmed that it does not have USB host. That may be possible - just requiring a hidden config or driver, but they might not have featured that or other capability (they would have to have drivers for many things and that support might be the problem). I still don't know if it still has a serial port or not.
There still seems to be some debate on the screen.
Before we all say Sharp blew it, we should wait for the actual release and someone to take a look at what is under the hood, both in terms of hardware and the kernel, what it really does have and does not, and what can be added.
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Well, it's not much of an improvement, but at least it won't force me to drop another grand. Integrated Wifi/bluetooth + SD + CF instead of HDD + SD + CF and I would have.
Silly Sharp, using a 400mhz pa270 on a top end PDA
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Silly Sharp, using a 400mhz pa270 on a top end PDA
It's be interesting to see the power consumption figures for this vs. the 600Mhz version which I saw one of the Dell Axims is using (iirc). Actually it'd also be interesting to see this PXA270 vs the PXA255 as the spec sheet claims that the power saving features are improved.
Si
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* no USB-host
This is not confirmed, or is it? I was pretty sure that the PXA270 could act as a host, even if they've not taken advantage of this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Si
Hmm i thought i saw in a review that you can use it as a portable hard drive storage, that you can just drag and drop file from windows on your zaurus. It has to be USB host somehow. I forgot which article thought.
I wonder why they said Wireless LAN integrated too.
Its weird. I hope they will just do like 2-3 models like the c7x0
more rams, wifi BT in etc, within like 3 months thats would be nice.
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Seeing as how I am still using a 5500 This looks to me to be a pretty fair upgrade, I am cringing though at what the price may be.
The only dissapointments for me are:
64MB RAM- I know that with SD and a hard drive there is absolutely no need for ramdisk, but I would like to see 128MB plus.(Maybe someone will provide a memory upgrade service)
Possibly no USB host - again with that kind of storage there isn't much need for that as I would have used it primarily for usb memory sticks, with a 4GB HDD tho it will likely replace my memory stick AND my 4GB usb hard drive.(provided it still does mass storage like the 860)
I would like to see built in WiFi as much as the next guy,but I'll settle for a CF WiFi card.
A VGA screen would have been awesome as I love my ebooks, but I am already in the habit of reflowing all of my books anyway.
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About the best I can see about this release is that at least they did not drop Linux.
It still has 2.4 kernel. They haven;t moved up to 2.6, and since 2.4 is dead for awhile already, IMHO it's the SAME as to drop linux. I'm not even starting talking about getting their patches cleaned up and submitted into official ARM kernel tree...
-albertr
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@_Psycho:
Hmm i thought i saw in a review that you can use it as a portable hard drive storage, that you can just drag and drop file from windows on your zaurus. It has to be USB host somehow. I forgot which article thought.
This implies that it's a USB client rather than a host; however I still reckon it'll be a host too (otherwise, as was mentioned above, why have both a usb and the Sharp IO sockets).
@albertr:
It still has 2.4 kernel. They haven;t moved up to 2.6, and since 2.4 is dead for awhile already, IMHO it's the SAME as to drop linux. I'm not even starting talking about getting their patches cleaned up and submitted into official ARM kernel tree...
Come help with the OZ effort to port 2.6.x, the new model will be added in to OE as soon as possible (the addition of the 6000 happened pretty quickly, though I'm not sure how far the kernel efforts have progressed).
@technojunkie:
64MB RAM- I know that with SD and a hard drive there is absolutely no need for ramdisk, but I would like to see 128MB plus.
Do people really need that much memory (okay, I do, but I'm not reason enough for them to change their spec, unfortunately ;-))? It would be nice occasionally, but in truth for most apps it's a waste of power (keeping the unused/cached memory refreshed).
Si
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This is the spec I wanted from a just released, new PDA:
Powered by the Intel® XScaleTM PXA270 Processor at 624MHz
Brilliant 3.7" color TFT VGA display with 640x480 resolution
Integrated Intel® 2700G multimedia accelerator with 16MB video memory
Integrated 802.11b and BluetoothTM Wireless Technologies
Packed with 64MB SDRAM and 128MB Intel StrataFlash® ROM
Integrated CompactFlash Type II and Secure Digital / SDIO Now! / MMC card slots provide flexible expansion
VGA-Out Support with optional VGA Presentation Bundle
Removable Primary Battery with optional High Capacity Battery
3.5mm Headphone / Headset Jack for Headsets to support VoIP and voice recognition applications
Built-in microphone and speaker for easy recording on the go
USB Cradle including Battery Charging Slot
Sleek, stylish design
All available for $499 in the new Dell Axim x50v.
Okay, I'm lying, I'd want the 4" screen of the iPAQ 7400, but otherwise it looks amazing.
Cheers
Marc
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When a company is happy with its sale and have no big competitors on their market their products don't evolve a lot. Why should they? They just need to "refresh" the device "image". With the harddrive inbuilt, the SL-C3000 has now all needed feature to be call mini laptop.
But for US and EU markets, there are three important missing parts:
_ Wifi - for fast internet connection (at home in many place in town or at work)
_ Bluethooth - for easy connection and exchange with other mobile device like Mobile phone, Palm, Pocket PC, other Zaurus, laptops.. or desktop hardware like standard PC, wireless router, printer... (Most device can use IrDa thought).
_ USB master - for extra device usb connection. This can't be ignored when using a Linux OS.
Bigger memory, bigger screen, better battery life are close to be in the list. They are all link up thought.
I don't talk about the OS because the only good thing for me is pdaXrom or OE.
Sharp doesn't sell clamshell Zaurus in US/EU so they don't care. Normal! If you manufacture a device only in US, would you add extra feature for a group of Japanezes asking for more componants? Even more true if your other device didn't succeed enough in this country.
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I've had my C860 for the last 2 months. So, the only thing new is the processor and the built-in drive? It would have been a compelling pda to upgrade to if it had wifi and bluetooth built-in.
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Do people really need that much memory (okay, I do, but I'm not reason enough for them to change their spec, unfortunately ;-))? It would be nice occasionally, but in truth for most apps it's a waste of power (keeping the unused/cached memory refreshed).
Si
More memory is absolutely critical. Take a look at what people in these forums are trying to do with these devices - X-windows, emulators, compiling, web servers, mysql etc. People who don't want to hack and are not addicted to keyboard as most of us unix addicts are probably don't need more memory, but they probably don't need z clamshell either. But for Z clamshell users I would think memory is more important than 4G hard drive vs 1G SD storage (assuming we agree no wifi is ok so CF slot goes to wifi card). I personally have not tried compiling on Z but that is only because I fear that compiler will complain about lack of memory for any larger builds. However, I am now totally comfortable accepting that z keyboard or screen size would not stop me from developing on it (and this is a total reversal for me as before I had c860 I could not imagine I would ever feel this way about a device so small - this was certainly my opinion even when I had sl-5500).
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More memory is absolutely critical. Take a look at what people in these forums are trying to do with these devices
People in these forums are not, and never have been, the people that Sharp is targeting with the Zaurus. What's hard for enthusiasts to realize is that the vast majority of people who buy PDAs (even high end PDAs like the Zaurus) will never install more than a handful of third party applications. A surprisingly large number (close to 1/3 according to the last survey I read) will never install any third party software.
Needless to say, if the amount of memory included in the device adequately supports the built in apps and the mainstream third party stuff (X and web servers are definitely not mainstream) then why change it? It would mean a hit in cost, possibly component lead times, and definitely power budget (RAM is a big power hog - especially when you look at sleep mode). All that with no tangible benefit for the target consumer would be very bad business strategy.
As much as I would like to see a company making a handheld specifially targeted at the "geek" market, I accepted long ago that such is not Sharp's mission. So who is Sharp targeting with the clamshell models? Not Linux hackers. The clamshell is intended as a mobile office platform for business folks. Think about the built in software suite ... Hancom Word, Hancom Sheet, Hancom Presenter, and a relatively Outlook compatible PIM suite and email client. No terminal app, no real text editor, not even a Java VM on the latest model. It may run Linux but Linux people aren't the target demographic (I wonder if they even include Qtopia Desktop any more?).
For those who Sharp wants to buy the C3000, increasing storage without changing speed or memory makes a lot of sense.
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I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective. As an American or European and not as a Japanese. I mean Sharp doesn't bring these devices to the US for a reason. And when they design them they are not trying to satify that market. What they are trying to do is a build a device for Japanese salary man with fat wallets. Bluetooth is still almost non-existent in Japan, only a few models support it. People who don't want to browse the web from their cell phone buy special wireless cards from the cell phone providers that they can stick in their laptop or zaurus. Thus wifi support in the device isn't that essential. Sharp figures if people want wifi they'll buy a wifi card, if they want cell phone internet they'll buy one of those cards.
In terms of processor speed and ram, Sharp probably figures that with 400mhz they can get everything the average Japanese salary man needs. In terms of the screen, while larger would have been nicer it also would have changed the aspect ratio or forced the device to be even larger in width. Plus since the Japanese are used to their 2 inch cellphone screens, 3.7 inches is probably plenty. This device may or may not have USB host, so I'll save judgement on that till later.
Finally in terms of storage, Sharp is not stupid. They know that you can buy a 4GB hard drive for 200 bucks and stick it in your CF slot. But they would rather have that CF slot for Wifi. But why not just put in Wifi and leave the CF slot for storage you might ask? Well alot of people on this forum refer to the Zaurus as a mini laptop. I mean if someone said you could either have the hard drive or the wifi, I think most of you would choose the hard drive.
Plus if you look at Sharp's website note that they are toting the fact that it has a built in dictonaries. Now American's will go great a built in dictionary... But notice this is more like an encyclopedia then a dictionary. It has pictures and sound and everything. Sharp calls this a multimedia dictionary. It appears that it takes up 600+ megabytes of space on the hard drive. Now this will be a big selling point in Japan and Sharp could not have included it without the built in hard drive. Keep in mind that Japanese is a hard language and the Japanese often have to consult dictonaries when they forget a Kanji. Because of this Japanese electronic dictonaries are extremely popular in Japan. I mean there eaiser then carrying around books with thousands of pages. The value of these dictionaries is at least $250. If you bought a standalone device with these dictionaries you'd be spending $350. The Zaurus has this capability built in and it can link to the e-mails there working on.
So while this might not be a great upgrade for American users, it is for Japanese users, which is after all their target users.
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More memory is absolutely critical. Take a look at what people in these forums are trying to do with these devices
People in these forums are not, and never have been, the people that Sharp is targeting with the Zaurus. What's hard for enthusiasts to realize is that the vast majority of people who buy PDAs (even high end PDAs like the Zaurus) will never install more than a handful of third party applications. A surprisingly large number (close to 1/3 according to the last survey I read) will never install any third party software.
Needless to say, if the amount of memory included in the device adequately supports the built in apps and the mainstream third party stuff (X and web servers are definitely not mainstream) then why change it? It would mean a hit in cost, possibly component lead times, and definitely power budget (RAM is a big power hog - especially when you look at sleep mode). All that with no tangible benefit for the target consumer would be very bad business strategy.
As much as I would like to see a company making a handheld specifially targeted at the "geek" market, I accepted long ago that such is not Sharp's mission. So who is Sharp targeting with the clamshell models? Not Linux hackers. The clamshell is intended as a mobile office platform for business folks. Think about the built in software suite ... Hancom Word, Hancom Sheet, Hancom Presenter, and a relatively Outlook compatible PIM suite and email client. No terminal app, no real text editor, not even a Java VM on the latest model. It may run Linux but Linux people aren't the target demographic (I wonder if they even include Qtopia Desktop any more?).
For those who Sharp wants to buy the C3000, increasing storage without changing speed or memory makes a lot of sense.
You are right about who Sharp wants to target with these clamshells. But it is fairly obvious that the reality is such that people who are most interested are developers and geeks and not typicall pda users. So my point is that Sharp is completely misunderstanding how they could/should market this type of device to make it most successfull. People who are primarily looking into PIM and basic PDA functions are not likely to get excited about clamshell keyboard. People who buy these are power users and unix geeks so providing hardware to make it possible to run their apps/tools should be one of primary design goals. Or Sharp can just continue to muddle along the way they have been and continue to frustrate us by releasing more of expensive "almost good enough to be mini laptop but never good enough to be best pda" products. This is a niche product but Sharp does not understand who the niche is.
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theuserdylan,
Very well said. I must admit I was definitely looking at it from my perspective and not as a Japanese consumer. However, I did have hopes that this device would have a broader appeal than it does. Maybe now we can turn our enthusiasm and support to those among us who are laboring to improve the software options available to us (Cacko, PdaXrom, OZ, etc.). There are some major strides that can be made in these areas that will make our Zaurii the envy of the PDA world.
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With regards to the HD storage, a large chunk of it is taken up with the Japanese dictionary. Sharp seems to be quite keen on these dictionaries/translators, so it must sell.
From the announcements and the fact that it supports WMA as well as mp3 etc out of the box it sounds like they are pitching it as a multimedia device too. And considering the iPods and iPod clones that have sprung up recently, it seems to me that Sharp is going after those who want a bit of a media player and a PDA all in one.
Sharp effectively pulled a Sony by withdrawing from the western markets. But who knows what will happen. PDA sales in Europe are actually on the up at the moment so there's a (very) slim chance Sharp in Europe might reconsider selling here and I would imagine or hope they'd at least put Bluetooth in it for a European model. A large drop in the would be nice too
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This is the spec I wanted from a just released, new PDA:
Powered by the Intel® XScaleTM PXA270 Processor at 624MHz
Brilliant 3.7" color TFT VGA display with 640x480 resolution
Integrated Intel® 2700G multimedia accelerator with 16MB video memory
Integrated 802.11b and BluetoothTM Wireless Technologies
Packed with 64MB SDRAM and 128MB Intel StrataFlash® ROM
Integrated CompactFlash Type II and Secure Digital / SDIO Now! / MMC card slots provide flexible expansion
VGA-Out Support with optional VGA Presentation Bundle
Removable Primary Battery with optional High Capacity Battery
3.5mm Headphone / Headset Jack for Headsets to support VoIP and voice recognition applications
Built-in microphone and speaker for easy recording on the go
USB Cradle including Battery Charging Slot
Sleek, stylish design
All available for $499 in the new Dell Axim x50v.
Okay, I'm lying, I'd want the 4" screen of the iPAQ 7400, but otherwise it looks amazing.
Cheers
Marc
where is the thumb board? to me thats a major feature of the clamshells
the storage upgrade is nice but i would rather have had another cf slot under the battery cover so you can have a 4 gb cf card "internal" then you can replace it or upgrade it as you like. and of course the integrated wifi would have been a plus but only for us here in the us market i suppose.
but if i could get all those features in clamshell id be all over it especially at that price ... but probabbly only if it ran linux.
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Target Market aside, does any one know if Sharp will have hardcore tech specs posted?
Does anyone have any poop on the Lineo version the C3K is using other than that it is using a 2.4.20 kernel? Does it support SDIO for example?
J.
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You are right about who Sharp wants to target with these clamshells. But it is fairly obvious that the reality is such that people who are most interested are developers and geeks and not typicall pda users. So my point is that Sharp is completely misunderstanding how they could/should market this type of device to make it most successfull. People who are primarily looking into PIM and basic PDA functions are not likely to get excited about clamshell keyboard. People who buy these are power users and unix geeks so providing hardware to make it possible to run their apps/tools should be one of primary design goals.
I hate to say it, but I doubt this is true. Although the vast majority of (clam-shell) users in the Europe and the US are 'hackers' (because it requires some serious effort to obtain one for starters, they it has to be translated, etc.), I'd guess that the majority of Japanese users are not, and that they just bought a PDA like a 'normal' ;-) person would go out and buy a PocketPC machine.
Therefore it terms of revenue generation, I'd guess that they are on the right track.
Si
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theuserdylan,
Very well said. I must admit I was definitely looking at it from my perspective and not as a Japanese consumer. However, I did have hopes that this device would have a broader appeal than it does. Maybe now we can turn our enthusiasm and support to those among us who are laboring to improve the software options available to us (Cacko, PdaXrom, OZ, etc.). There are some major strides that can be made in these areas that will make our Zaurii the envy of the PDA world.
Yes, sure! It is definitively the way to go to support our Zaurus.
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Well, sold my personal C860, and planning to get a C3000.
I reckon I'll get one of those SD WiFi cards that is on the horizon.
This way, I have WiFi, and a free CF slot for bluetooth or other peripherals at the same time without worrying about finding storage space.
Shame they have gone back to Barbie white again...
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I'm actually happy about the hard drive. I had been secretly hoping for that. My thinking is that if my Z had a large HD in it, it could replace my Archos MP3 player. Since I tend to carry both of those around much of the time, eliminating one would be great!
So, I'm interested now in hearing more about the HD in the C3000: what kind is it and can it be upgraded to, say, 30 or 40 GB? If anyone hears anything regarding this please post what you hear.
BTW, I think some folks may have missed the point that you don't need as much flash storage if you have a HD; you install stuff to the HD instead. I'll bet they put /home on the HD. Reducing the RAM, however, is a problem. However, as someone pointed out (in a somewhat roundabout way), this may have been a design compromise to compensate for the additional power needed by the HD.
I am disappointed about the lack of built-in WiFi; my biggest complaint about my C860 is the placement of the CF slot; it makes it very hard to type. Built-in WiFi would be a great solution to this (and very convenient) with the added benefit of leaving the CF slot open for storage, etc.
Another potential solution would be to move the CF slot (of course, they didn't do that either). The problem is actually much worse with LAN and modem cards, which tend to be much bigger than WiFi cards, and built-in WiFi wouldn't solve that problem. (Luckily, I don't need to use those cards very often.)
The better (SL6000) screen and USB host would have been nice too (unlike some, I wouldn't mind a slightly larger clamshell to accomodate a bigger screen). But, these days, I guess we've got to take what we can get from Sharp. It's truly a shame that they didn't even TRY the clamshell design in the US/UK. If they had tried and failed (as with the SL series) that would be one thing; but not even trying is just stoopid, IMHO (especially when they had the existing infrastructure, that was created for the SL series, at their disposal).
Another feature that I've been secretly hoping for is an SL-style joy button that could be used when the clamshell is in its portrait configuration. There's a lot of good SW for the SL-series (games, especially) that runs fine on the clamshells in portrait mode but cannot be used effectively because of insufficient controls. There's enough wasted space around the clamshell screen that a joy button could probably be placed there pretty easily.
~ray
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So, I'm interested now in hearing more about the HD in the C3000: what kind is it and can it be upgraded to, say, 30 or 40 GB? If anyone hears anything regarding this please post what you hear.
The HD is almost certainly a 4GB Hitachi 1" drive. We won't know if it's in the CF card packaging or standalone until someone rips a C3000 apart, but I'm betting it's a CF card. If so, there's a good chance you could upgrade it to a 5GB Seagate but that's currently as far as you can go. To get 30 or 40 GB you need to go to a 1.8" drive and it's doubtful the C3000 went that route.
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any price yet
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i like the idea of a HD instead of messing with sd cards i've gone though 2 scan disk cards (now in buy kingston) and formating to ext3 is a pain.
yes what is the price and when will we be able to buy from over seas.
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Does anyone notice the extra tab in the SL3000 System Info screen?
http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau/15.gif (http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2004/10/15/zau/15.gif)
Its says "Device" in japanese. This is the same tab found in the SL-6000:
http://www.bargainpda.com/assets/sharp/zau...00/usb_c860.jpg (http://www.bargainpda.com/assets/sharp/zaurus/6000/usb_c860.jpg)
Wouldn't this indicate USB host functionality?
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i like the idea of a HD instead of messing with sd cards i've gone though 2 scan disk cards (now in buy kingston) and formating to ext3 is a pain.
yes what is the price and when will we be able to buy from over seas.
I agree, I would love to have a hard disk in my C760 without losing my CF wireless card. It also means you can use a swap file/partition without destroying flash memory.
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Wouldn't this indicate USB host functionality?
I'm guessing it has USB Host, but they arn't making a song and dance about it because it doesn't actually support anything (Yet).
Has anyone got any useful functionality from the USB host on the 6000 ?
Looking throught he 6000 thread, the only thing I could spot was an Archos Hard drive...
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So, I'm interested now in hearing more about the HD in the C3000: what kind is it and can it be upgraded to, say, 30 or 40 GB? If anyone hears anything regarding this please post what you hear.
The HD is almost certainly a 4GB Hitachi 1" drive. We won't know if it's in the CF card packaging or standalone until someone rips a C3000 apart, but I'm betting it's a CF card. If so, there's a good chance you could upgrade it to a 5GB Seagate but that's currently as far as you can go. To get 30 or 40 GB you need to go to a 1.8" drive and it's doubtful the C3000 went that route.
Yeah, I came to realize that after reading more posts. I guess it explains why they were able to keep the size about the same. That's disappointing (for me). I don't think I would upgrade from my C860 for that. Oh well; wait 'till next year (maybe?)...
~ray
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So, I'm interested now in hearing more about the HD in the C3000: what kind is it and can it be upgraded to, say, 30 or 40 GB?Â
There is a "Moore's law of memory capacity": quadruples every three years.
2004 C3000 with 4 GB
2007 C4000 with 16 GB
2010 C5000 with 64 GB
Well, retropolation does not fit exactly - integrated 1GB was not available in 2001
:-) hns
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The thing that annoys me most about my C760 is the video chip. I have this great 640x480 screen and lots of storage via CF, but can only play video at 320x240! I should NEVER have to switch my beautiful screen into 320x240 mode (makes me feel like I bought a trashy CE brick every time).
There is a very big difference to how video looks at 240lines vs. full 480, especially when taken from HD/DVD source (like all my stuff is). 240 lines on a PDA was fine 5 years ago, but come on.
Has anyone heard if they upgraded the video chip in this unit to allow high-res playback of MPEG2/4 video? Anyone know what video chip is in there? It seems like they are going after the "PVP" market with this unit, with the hard drive, so hopefully they looked at video playback improvements when doing the engineering.
Of course, I'm still not entirely sure I would purchase this unit due to the bulk. I purchased the BL06 battery for my C760 so I could remove the bulky backplate and carry it in my business shirt pocket reasonably easily; and the 3000 appears to be even thicker than 760/860 with backplate.
I am extremely happy they are coming out with new models though, and don't care if they are Japan only (easy enough to import). It's good to see they are committed to continuing to design powerful Linux PDA's. It's not like there are many companies doing this, and most of them create obviously low quality units. Obviously Sharp is weak on the sofware end, but that's what we have the great Open Source develpment groups for. OE and pdaXrom teams...you guys RULE!
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Sharp announced the new product "SL-C3000 " of Linux Zaurus which loads the harddisk driveof 4G. November 10th sale schedule. As for price, approximately 80,000 Yen.
Quoted from the japanese article link to on the first page of this thread... so about 80,000 yen = $732.575 US (from XE.com)
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Price Japan are quoting 65000 yen ($595 US) as best price in Japan.
However by the time you add their fee, Japanese Tax, postage and credit card charge you get to $774 US (£430 UK).
That is of course assuming you don't get any import charges when it comes in. Always a possibility and varies wildly depending where you are. In the UK that could easily be £500 total.
Cheers
Marc
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Price quote from pricejapan.com... close to uczmeg's numbers:
Roughly calculated price quote is as follows
The products price YEN 65,000
Japan tax YEN 3,250
Shipping cost YEN 6,000
Our fee YEN 4,000
Insurance YEN 548
YEN Total YEN 78,798
Above Yen amount is equivalent to
USD 734
EUR 591
AUD 1,011
HKD 5,752
SGD 1,228
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I reckon I'll get one of those SD WiFi cards that is on the horizon.
They're not on the horizon - they're plastered all over eBay!
So does the 3000 support SDIO? And does the 860, for that matter?
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A VGA screen would have been awesome as I love my ebooks
It has a VGA screen (640 x 480), as do all the clamshells.
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Price quote from pricejapan.com... close to uczmeg's numbers:
My numbers included the PayPal charge, which is why they are a little higher.
I figure most people don't have a balance of $700 in their account (it would save $24). The other forms of payment incur charges elsewhere, but you pick those up yourself rather than paying PJ.
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I reckon I'll get one of those SD WiFi cards that is on the horizon.
They're not on the horizon - they're plastered all over eBay!
So does the 3000 support SDIO? And does the 860, for that matter?
The answer is simply 3000 is no different than 860 for that matter, it does not officially support SDIO and unofficially if 860 will, than so will 3000.
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Any confirmation about the "perhaps" availability of the SL-C3000 in our countries?
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Any confirmation about the "perhaps" availability of the SL-C3000 in our countries?
For Europe we are currently investigating what we can do to get a CE approval (similar to FCC approval) for the devices (which is required for legaly operating and reselling) and provide standard warranty terms.
A first indication is 899€ (incl. 16% sales tax) for such a device (with 2 years warranty, repair center in Germany, CE approval). And availability by End of November.
But this works only if everything goes well. The first devices are available on Nov. 10th in Japan, have to be purchased, sent to Europe, run through the CE qualification lab, have to get their CE label, and might need an adapted english manual before they can be shipped out.
There is no indication that Sharp Europe will support that device.
-- hns
http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=C3000 (http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=C3000)
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They're not on the horizon - they're plastered all over eBay!
So does the 3000 support SDIO? And does the 860, for that matter?
I wouldn't count on any zaurus supporting sdio in the near future. I read somewhere that they didn't even connect the pins used by sdio to the socket. And on top of that, the folks that hold the SD patent charge exorbitant licensing fees to developers wanting to develop for sdio.
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About SDIO:
C-guys ( http://www.c-guys.net/ (http://www.c-guys.net/) ) have a c760/c860 driver for their SD WiFi card; unfortunately, they (still) haven't released the driver. They showed a Z using the card at CEATEC, so apparently the driver really does exist; I don't know what's taking so long for them to release it.
I have no idea if they plan to make a driver available for the C3k.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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I don't know what's taking so long for them to release it.
Probably legal / red tape
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The HD is nice, but other than that this upgrade is pretty weak. I really was hoping for at least builtin bluetooth. I have no idea why bluetooth isn't that big in Japan. I use it FAR more than WiFi on handhelds because it's battery friendly and with EDGE I get great download speeds.
Like a couple others said before, I think I'm just going to wait for HP to finally release a clamshell PPC. Hopefully it'll allow dual-boots (I think M$ crushed that ability with WinCE 3) since I'd rather use PPC to run most apps and to sync PIMs to my Mac. I'd want the dual-boot ability with Linux, though, so I can hack in the bash shell and mess around with some OSS apps.
If Nokia would ever fix their horrible Contacts application, support Perl/Python like the advertised months ago, and if iSync would support Nokia phones, I would also consider a Nokia 9500 or 9300.
Sharp looks like it's going the way of Sony... so my C760 will likely be my last Z. At least it's got a lot of life left in it and hopefully ROMs and apps will continue to get better over time.
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More on SDIO:
It appears that there definitely is SDIO support on the C3k:
http://computers.livedoor.com/livedoor/mob...0sl3000/203.jpg (http://computers.livedoor.com/livedoor/mobile/mb-pick/200410sl3000/203.jpg)
The above picture is from one of the C3k presentations; it shows a bunch of cards that can be used with the new Z (network, wifi, modem). Notice that one is an SD card (specifically, an AirH" PHS modem card, which also works with the A300).
Of course, like the Cx60 models, having SDIO capability doesn't mean much without drivers.
- ashikase
anpachi, gifu, japan
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Any confirmation about the "perhaps" availability of the SL-C3000 in our countries?
For Europe we are currently investigating what we can do to get a CE approval (similar to FCC approval) for the devices (which is required for legaly operating and reselling) and provide standard warranty terms.
...
I was asking for Sharp official selling and support
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Like a couple others said before, I think I'm just going to wait for HP to finally release a clamshell PPC. Hopefully it'll allow dual-boots (I think M$ crushed that ability with WinCE 3) since I'd rather use PPC to run most apps and to sync PIMs to my Mac. I'd want the dual-boot ability with Linux, though, so I can hack in the bash shell and mess around with some OSS apps.
Dual boot on a PDA? I think that doesn't make any sense if you want to use both systems productively.
I agree, the C3k isn't worth an upgrade from a clamshell (as it is lacking built in wifi) , but I'm happy Sharp is still using Linux on their PMTs and the C3k is a bigger step from the C860 than the C860 was from the C760...
Plus I like the design ;-)
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I was asking for Sharp official selling and support
What's the benefit of having Sharp Europe involved?
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given that sharp are pulling the 6000 out of USA, I can't imagine them launching any other Zaurii there :-(
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Dual boot on a PDA? I think that doesn't make any sense if you want to use both systems productively.
I agree, the C3k isn't worth an upgrade from a clamshell (as it is lacking built in wifi) , but I'm happy Sharp is still using Linux on their PMTs and the C3k is a bigger step from the C860 than the C860 was from the C760...
Plus I like the design ;-)
As I understand, people are already dual-booting but with 2 different Linux ROMs. I haven't tried it myself and I'm reluctant to do so due to memory constraints since my CF slot is taken up with a bluetooth card.
Being able to dual boot PPC (or even Palm) and Linux would increase productivity quite a bit. Why do you think it would prevent anyone from using it productively?
The fact of the matter is, PPC/Palm are supported in the US, sync on Macs, and have better stock PIMs and some other applications. If we could go back to the days of WinCE2 where you could load a CF card in with Linux and run a boot loader, that would be great. Then I could use PPC/Palm for my day to day business needs and then pop in a CF card with Linux when I need/want to hack. It'd be even better if they'd give us a fat flash chip to load both OSes on comfortably.
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Some SL-3000 Questions:
Could someone tell me whether they think one will need to get updated version of software to run on the SL-3000 or will C860/C760 version apps run OK on it??
Will there be issues with putting other ROMs (Cacko, etc) on it as well??
From the photos online of the SL-3000 it appears to me that the keys on the keyboard are slightly larger and more pronounced (which seems good...). What do others think??
Thanks for any input!
Mark
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According to Dynamism.com, the C3000 will run all C7xx programs.
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Compatibility shouldn't even be an issue, most probably you'll be able to run the current 860 rom as well, maybe you'll need to compile a hdd interface driver in as well, depending on interface.
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Won't the problem with the current ROMS for the 860 be that they are too big to fit in ROM space on the C3000?
My guess is they'll need adapting a little to make them install to the hard drive?
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Being able to dual boot PPC (or even Palm) and Linux would increase productivity quite a bit. Why do you think it would prevent anyone from using it productively?
The fact of the matter is, PPC/Palm are supported in the US, sync on Macs, and have better stock PIMs and some other applications. If we could go back to the days of WinCE2 where you could load a CF card in with Linux and run a boot loader, that would be great. Then I could use PPC/Palm for my day to day business needs and then pop in a CF card with Linux when I need/want to hack. It'd be even better if they'd give us a fat flash chip to load both OSes on comfortably.
Booting takes time, whether from RAM or cf, doesn't matter that much. If you want to use the Z as a PIM device, this would be too much time. Imagine situations like this: "oh, hang on just 2 minutes, I'll have to look up this telephone number/ckeck my schedule" just because you were hacking the shell and need to reboot the device.
It's form factor, "allways there and ready and instant on" is was makes the Zaurus a PDA. My laptop needs 3 secs to wake up from sleeping mode, my Z just 1. For me, that matters.
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Not necessarily. If the primary OS is PPC, this isn't a problem. Just like I said earlier with the older WinCE2 devices, you'd just pop in a CF card and then run a boot loader to start up Linux. So, accessing my business applications aren't impacted.
And even if they were, I don't really care since turning off a PDA usually means putting it into a suspend mode and turning it on takes it out of suspension. So, the only time you'd need to boot is when you take the PDA totally down.
I guess I don't see what there is to be concerned about this.
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new images + video from the WPC expo @
http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/ (http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/)
direct link to the wmv
http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_pics/8800/z3000.wmv (http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_pics/8800/z3000.wmv)
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Won't the problem with the current ROMS for the 860 be that they are too big to fit in ROM space on the C3000?
My guess is they'll need adapting a little to make them install to the hard drive?
At most you would probably need to update fstab, which shouldn't be considered as a hack or modification I guess.
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Well I like the white case and did you notice there's a Ctrl Key !, still no Alt though !
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This is pure and total speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if we find that Sharp just threw a conventional rom image file (like the kind you use to reflash the ROM) onto the HD and tweaked the kernel to loop mount it. That way they don't have to deal with partitioning or non-FAT filesystems on the drive, restructuring the ROM, protecting the portions that they don't want users to change, etc.
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This is pure and total speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if we find that Sharp just threw a conventional rom image file (like the kind you use to reflash the ROM) onto the HD and tweaked the kernel to loop mount it. That way they don't have to deal with partitioning or non-FAT filesystems on the drive, restructuring the ROM, protecting the portions that they don't want users to change, etc.
Not entirely sure that they have done this, I saw something about only getting close to 4Gb space if you removed the dictionionaries.... However, I guess the dictionaries could still be on a FAT drive..
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go hereNOW!!!
http://ezaurus.com/ (http://ezaurus.com/)
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Thanks for the link!
The C3000 looks a lot chunkier than the C860.
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go hereNOW!!!
http://ezaurus.com/ (http://ezaurus.com/)
maybe you missed the existing thread with 82 posts already about this... I'm merging these
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Can someone confirm what the lack of Java will mean in practice? I saw someone write that existing apps will work on the new model. So does that not mean it would be easy to install the java that came with the 860? Would certainly be a show-stopper for me if not...having just taken the trouble to learn some java so I could write a portable application!
(I know that upgrading from 860 to 3000 sounds like it hardly makes sense - but my wife is starting to like the 860, and we both want java)
James
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I can't see any technical reason at the moment why you can't install Java PersonalProfile that came with the 860 on a 3000, however, I think there's something in the small print about the JVM being licensed for the device it came on. You may want to check into that (or you may not).
Actually I think the SL-C3000 is going to appeal to people that want to run PocketWorkstation (when they sort out an X Server that runs on it, assuming the graphics chip has changed) and if you are running that then I suppose it's feasible that you may want to run fullblown Blackdown JDK and use Swing etc.
It is going to be interesting to see what sort of battery life these units get as I understand that they still have the 1700ma/h batteries like the 860 and I know that if you use a WIFI card in the 860 then the battery life really takes a dive, I wonder what it's going to be like possibly with an SD card, WIFI card and the onboard HD (Microdrive ??).
- Andy
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I don't know why there is so much whinging going on about this model. I've been waiting on the side-lines, considering the Zaurus (and other options, like maybe the OQO), and this looks like the best option yet for me by far. I need wireless, and I need storage. With one CF slot, that is a problem. With the HD in the Zaurus, they have just solved that problem. Also, I'm sure they're buying these HDs much cheaper than I could -- now that the MuVo2s don't have usable microdrives in them any more.
As far as I am concerned, this is starting to look like the first really usable Zaurus for my purposes. I could keep a sync'd copy of all my E-mail on it now (i.e. simultaneous WiFi and HD access to do the syncing). I could use it to backup my photos from my camara (i.e. simultaneous SD and HD access). Maybe I could even use it for field audio recording one day (www.core-sound.com, i.e. CF and HD access).
I'm glad to see some people (Dynamism UK, Handheld Linux DE, ShirtPocket?) are looking at bringing it to Europe.
Also note there is no reduction in RAM-style memory (64MB). Only the Flash-style memory is reduced, but as I understand it, this is only really needed for booting from when you have 4GB of HD-style memory built in.
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Just in case anyone didn't notice, the SD card slot has moved to tthe front from the back!
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Pictures of the Sharp SL-C3000 tested in English
Photos here (http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/sl-c3000/wpc2004/index.html)
I think we're the first to confirm it will work in English
regards,
-Brett
Conics.net (http://conics.net)
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Pictures of the Sharp SL-C3000 tested in English
Photos here (http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/sl-c3000/wpc2004/index.html)
I think we're the first to confirm it will work in English
regards,
-Brett
Conics.net (http://conics.net)
Excellent pictures!
I dont know how I feel about the white/chrome/silver. I like my nice plain all silver c860 and I also like the 860 ok/cancel buttons on the back.
I think as far as aesthetics, the only thing I like more is the change in the arrow keys. Besides that, I pass.
I wouldn't mind a 4 gig hd tho :-X
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I dont know how I feel about the white/chrome/silver. I like my nice plain all silver c860 and I also like the 860 ok/cancel buttons on the back.
I think they're going for the iPod/iMac look as Sharp seem to be pitching the C3000 as a bit more of a media player as well as PMT.
I know the Picsel stuff is kinda like a handheld PDF format (a PC app converts many file formats into a 'unversal' format suitable for handhelds), but what is a Picsel-powered SD card as shown in the Conics pictures?
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Fellow Z users,
I have been using a 5500 for almost three years now. Of particular importance is a terminal (minicom) and access to serial communications since I administer Sun boxen and the odd Cisco device.
I have noticed that the 3000 may not have an I/O port which can be used for serial communications. If serial communications are desired, there are USB-to-Serial converters but my fear is that I will not be able to send a break. My co-worker uses Gentoo on his laptop (no serial port) and he can't send a break...neither can my other co-worker using a different laptop (no serial port) and Winbloze...again with a USB-to-Serial converter...can't send break.
Is there a work around for this or is it a characteristic of the USB specification?
Does anyone know if the 3000 has an I/O port or if the USB port is now the preferred mode of communication?
Obviously I am looking to upgrade my 5500 but need fully functional serial communications.
j.
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Tumus,
I have just come across this page
http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-b.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-b.html)
It explains the function of the Picsel SD card, principally "Furthermore it mounts also the copyright protective function which prevents the illegality utilization of the software."
The translation from the Japanese is courtesy of Bablefish.
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Bombur,
I have a Keyspan USA-19W USB serial cable. As I recall it was only in older versions of the 19W driver that sending breaks did not work. I used my USB serial cable often when I had my laptop and it worked well. I distinctly remember the issue of sending breaks not even being coded in the driver, but I thought that later revisions fixed it, because I would have little use for the device if that didn't work. So, use the source to be 100% sure.
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Thanks for the reply Stupkid.
I will check the type and partnumber of the usb to serial converters my co-workers are using...it just might be the issue (I hope). Unfortunately, although I am a hard-core unix user, I do not actively program (read code)...haven't done it in 15 years so I am beyond rusty.
Still, looking at the source might be fun...
j.
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the c3000 has finally been posted on slashdot by the conics guys... and dz plugs the ZUG nicely... thanks!
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yup
and conics.net was /.'d when I last checked (exceeded bandwidth)
Scott
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Pictures of the Sharp SL-C3000 tested in English
Photos here (http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/sl-c3000/wpc2004/index.html)
Great Pictures!
This also indicates ROM 1.45 JP - which answers the question risen some postings ago: it seems to be mostly compatible to the C860.
-- hns
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I have just come across this page
http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-b.html (http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/news/041015-b.html)
It explains the function of the Picsel SD card, principally "Furthermore it mounts also the copyright protective function which prevents the illegality utilization of the software."
Nice find. Thanks.
So this suggests the C3000 supports the 'advanced' features of SD then...
Not too keen on the DRM side, but the encryption might be useful for keeping corporate/private data safe.
and conics.net was /.'d when I last checked
Oops. They should probably put a link to http://www.mirrordot.org (http://www.mirrordot.org) on every Slashdot story since not many people know about it.
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Probably already posted, but what the heck:
C-3000 Summary at Conics (http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/sl-c3000/index.html)
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Poor Brett, all those slashdot hits, and look at the comments, they're all saying "where can I get one in the US?", "oh, I think dynamism will have them..." They should have posted something at the top of the review page about when conics was expecting to have them and at what price, that probably would have brought them more business.
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I tell some information heard by WPC expo.
USB Host is effective. The plan person in charge of C3000 said that there is an actual result that the USB keyboard operated.
However, is it the problem of a power supply? It does not announce officially, saying that the USB host is still functioning officially.
Imageon100 is not using it. It is said that equivalent performance is realized by LCDC of PXA270.
It is what should be pleased with that the bottleneck of w100 was lost.
The serial port moved to the back. It is in the right of USB of a picture (http://computers.livedoor.com/livedoor/mobile/mb-pick/200410sl3000/008.jpg).
Surely there is various dissatisfaction.
Why wasn't PXA270 of 624Mhz used?
The memory is not increasing from 64Mb why.
Did not use half-penetration type liquid crystal why.
And in 3.7 inches, it is already small.
and so on...
However, even if based on them, I thought that I wanted C3000.
thanks.
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Some additional information and pictures that I found :
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/article/new...page/20994.html (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/article/news_toppage/20994.html)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0162.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0162.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0161.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0161.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0151.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0151.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0140.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0140.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0171.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0171.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0150.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0150.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0175.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0175.jpg)
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/imag...15/DSCN0138.jpg (http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/static/image/2004/10/15/DSCN0138.jpg)
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Is there already somebody who has bought the C3000?
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I bought mine from Conics bastichelaar 2 weeks ago...but won't be shipping till Nov 11th (or 12th) according to Conics...
UPDATE: Got email this morning from Conics...mine's shipped out!!!
Mark
Waiting Impatiently for SL-3000
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http://www.ayati.com/kobako/c3bara.htm (http://www.ayati.com/kobako/c3bara.htm)
http://tungsten.cc/3000/SL-C3000.html (http://tungsten.cc/3000/SL-C3000.html)
http://www.occn.zaq.ne.jp/piro/C3000_photo/ (http://www.occn.zaq.ne.jp/piro/C3000_photo/)
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Hmm. Not as easy getting at the HD as I hoped it would be. I was looking for a "4 screws and pop the drive out" sort of solution. It looks like it requires about 2 or 3 notches more on the bravery scale.
Now, the big question is has someone tried to swap another CF card in place of the Microdrive?
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Now, the big question is has someone tried to swap another CF card in place of the Microdrive?
It looks like they have done that in one of the pictures.
I have no idea what the text says next to it though!
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Since we now know that the drive is the Hitachi 4gb microdrive, I thought I'd provide a link to the drive specs.
http://www.memorysuppliers.com/hi4gbmi4cofl.html (http://www.memorysuppliers.com/hi4gbmi4cofl.html)
While the data transfer rate is certainly impressive, I'm not really impressed with the battery consumption statistics. It appears that first and foremost this is a drive with moveable parts, hence the power consumed while idle. It makes me wonder just how bad the power will be on the new Z.
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Now, the big question is has someone tried to swap another CF card in place of the Microdrive?
It looks like they have done that in one of the pictures.
I have no idea what the text says next to it though!
Well, I tried the babble-fish translator on my 860.
Of course, it is possible physically that it ???? in CF of the common flash.
When it becomes CF of 4GB, though it is pretty difficult on the amount of money sid
Basically the card fits, but it doesn't look like he tried to power it up like that.
(first post from my Z )
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My Conics.net SL-C3000 order shipped today! I should receive it in 4-5 days. I will post a mini-review when I have had sufficient time to play, err, test it ;-)
I plan on eventually replacing the 4GB Hitachi Microdrive with a 5GB Seagate drive.
(see this thread (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7227&hl=carbon))
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Actualy, it may be not a bad idea to put a traditional CF card of 1-2 Gb in size and use microdrive for external storage. 1-2 Gb of built-in storage would be enough for internal Zaurus memory. Standard flash card will give better power consumption and performance...
I'm pretty sure that after removing Japanese dictioaries, the ROM itself would be much bigger than current ROMs and it will easily fit into 1-2 Gb flash.
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I have been using the Hitachi 4gb microdrive with my C860 and do not notice much difference in battery life between it and a 1gb CF card that I sometimes use. At the end of the day, I still have lots of battery in reserve. I don't doubt that it uses some more power, but nothing like my Socket WLAN card, which is supposed to be one of the lower power cards. Two to three hours of network connection is typical for me with the larger battery.
The problem I find is that some programs insist on checking the entire microdrive for potential data (pdf, mp3, etc) every time they start. Program options to turn off or limit checking, if available, often seem to be broken, even if the rest of the program works fine. While I notice little difference between the microdrive and a CF flash card in regular file operations involving copying large files, accessing many smaller files seems to be much slower on the microdrive. Sometimes, this can get very annoying. With the C860, I can pop the microdrive in and out. That's not a practical option in the C3000.
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I got my SL-C3000 two days ago, the screen is clearer, the battery seems to last longer (or maybe my old SL-C860 battery was getting old), the browser is, at last, fast enough to browse the web normally.
More important, the included dictionaries are fantastic, that alone justifies to switch from a previous SL-C model.
It seems faster, this may be due to the presence of the microdrive inside. It's "only" a 4 Gb storage, but 4 Gb is plenty of space for this kind of machine.
There was a big drawback, the absence of a Java runtime environment, but it's solved now (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=8453).
Overall, my impression is that the SL-C3000 is not a revolution compared to the SL-C860, but definitely a positive evolution. I like it. Now I'm waiting for the USB host connectivity to pop up.
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See the C3000 USB Host (https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=8431) thread for all the info I've been able to gather on the topic so far.
One thing I am still confused about is the mini-USB connector on the C3000. I've done a bunch of Googling, but I could not find a definite answer as to what type of adapter the C3000 will require to connect to USB devices. I have seen pictures of the USB OTG (On The Go) mini-A and mini-B plugs, but I still cannot tell which one (if either) the C3000 uses. The mini-A plug seems to be the closest match, but not exactly. I hope Sharp used a standard USB plug on the C3000...
Vido: Can you shed any light on this?
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I just ordered a C3000, here's what I got from this forum alone that should answer our questions:
The USB host port on the C3000 isn't On-The-Go; it is a fully function USB 1.1 interface port supported by the PX270 processor onboard. See the specifications for that processor for more details, but basically OTG is a Samsung creation for its ARM-architecture (same as PXA series) processors. From what I understood, OTG is unpowered (except for data pins of course), but still a USB host. Simply put, the port on the C3000 should be the exact same port on the SL-6000.
The cable, therefore, used is discussed in the SL-6000 forums, and the drivers for the SL-6000 should of course work for the C3000. It's a Mini-USB Type A Female, and you need a Mini Type-A Male to Type A (full sized) Female cable. All the details are in the SL-6000 forum. Sorry I can't provide a link (can't find the specific post!) but it's there.
The C3000 shouldn't have a dedicated graphics chip, but those chips never did much except help one program, specifically designed to use them, render movies or the like. If we look at the Toshiba E705 series, which had the chip (Imageon 100), the Toshiba had (as far as I remember) a special $20 VGA-out attachment and a fast video renderer. Aside from that, nothing was gained.
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I am considering a WiFi SD card and a CF bluetooth (Socket) card for a future 3k purchase. However, the last I checked C-Guys hadn't tested their SD WiFi on a 3000 yet. Also, I can't read Japanese so I can't buy on-line. Is there another online supplier of these SD cards? C-Guys are the only manufacturer I have seen so far that have a linux driver.
Has anyone had experience (yet) with these cards in a 3k?
J.
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People frigthen by the internal harddrive are the same who where frigthened by internal flash in the Zaurus SL-C7x0/860 models. And all works well.
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UNSTICKY THIS PLEASE!
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UNSTICKY THIS PLEASE!
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Done