OESF Portables Forum
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: zaurusgeek on September 10, 2004, 10:56:35 am
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They'll sell for a few more months then discontinue the product in the US. How does that make us recent 6000 purchasers feel?
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Got anything supporting this claim, ZG?
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see my response in the general forum
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Assuming this is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve our source from SDG), I'm not surprised. Here's why:
- I've never seen the Sharp Zaurus advertised anywhere. Most people don't know it exists. It's not carried at CompUSA, Best Buy, OfficeMax, or Office Depot.
- Aside from the folks in these forums, I don't know of anybody else who owns a Zaurus. None of my family, none of my friends, none of my acquaintances. Nobody.
- I'm the kiss of death to any cool tech product. As soon as I bought a Zaurus, you all should have known it was bound for oblivion. Look what I did to the Sega Dreamcast.
I'll continue to carry my Zaurus until some key part breaks or wears out (most likely the battery) and then I'll downgrade to an iPaq. The future of Linux on PDAs is here (http://www.handhelds.org/).
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The future of Linux on PDAs is here .
Actually here: http://openembedded.org (http://openembedded.org)
Si
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- I'm the kiss of death to any cool tech product. As soon as I bought a Zaurus, you all should have known it was bound for oblivion. Look what I did to the Sega Dreamcast.
Right, somebody tell someone at Sharp it's 'cradlinski's fault.
*LOL*
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well, seeings as how Sharp hasnt really given us anything in the way of support for our 6000's yet, I really dont mind. Im lucky I got my Z and Ill continue playing with it.
ZUG has been my only source of support, thanks guys.
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I am curious though, do any of the "corporate" or "enterprise" customers that sharp was targeting with the 6000 frequent ZUG ?
If so... what do you use your Z's for...
do you use specialised software or receive any kind of special customer support ?
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I am curious though, do any of the "corporate" or "enterprise" customers that sharp was targeting with the 6000 frequent ZUG ?
If so... what do you use your Z's for...
do you use specialised software or receive any kind of special customer support ?
The only Linux based mobile computers I've ever seen in enterprise applications are the AML ones.
[img]http://www.amltd.com/images/the-works_25.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
These compete with Symbol, HHP and the like, where they do a pretty good job. They have laser scanners, WiFi and all that fun stuff.
Can't imagine what applications the Zaurus would be used for, maybe a mobile terminal for Linux sys admins?
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Sharp has an enterprise Zaurus case-study on their website (http://www.myzaurus.com/ent_tandr.asp). I wonder if CSX is as unhappy with Sharp as we are.
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I wonder what kind of awsome data entry CSX was doing that couldnt be dne with any other pda that has a modem, come to thin of it... my sharp pocketmail device could have easily handled the load given the right software.
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Wait... you mean they had a US program going? <sarcasm>
They had no sales team, no support, and basically no information easily available. I bought the hardware with the understanding that SharpUSA was a myth.
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What is sad though, is that their idiocy with this mess made them lose out on several dozen sales here alone.
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In terms of "enterprise" apps, I was in the early stages of planning a voip phone based on the Sharp. This was for a specialized market that required very specific parameters. This news has certainly killed any consideration of the Z, but I'm not very enthusiastic about develping for iPaqs/Windows either. Luckily the news came at a point where all it cost me was a Z and accessories. The only support I was ever looking for from Sharp was a stable, available product.
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Wow makes me feel happy I didn't lay $700 down for the 6000L like I was thinking. This is truly sad :-(. At this point, I've given up and I am thinking of getting a Dell Axim instead.
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I have a 6000 and I really like it. I'm very sorry to hear that there won't be any follow-ons. Plus, I expect the supply of 6000 accessories to drop off rapidly.
When my 6000 dies--as all such things eventually do--what are the odds that I'll be able to get a Japanese Z here in the States? I see that Dynamism sells Japanese Zaurii. Can we expect them to continue doing so or will they drop the Zaurus, too? What about developer effort? The elimination of the Zaurus from the U.S. market will surely cut down on the demand for OpenZaurus. Can the OpenZaurus developers really sustain their efforts with a very small user base willing to shell out $850US for a C860?
On the upside, perhaps this will result in greater support for the Familiar project as disgruntled ex-Zaurus users migrate to other platforms. I got the Z because I wanted an ultra portable computer, not an electronic organizer. That's why I can't see myself ever getting a Palm device. I hate Windows so I don't want a Pocket PC, either. I would be willing to get an iPaq if I knew I could replace the software with Familiar+Opie or gpe. However, Familiar seems to be a generation behind HP/Compaq's offerings. They have great support for the iPaq 39xx line which isn't sold anymore. Development for current offerings is in various stages of maturity but none appear really ready for primetime. I'm interested in helping out on development but I need to read a few more books on embedded Linux and spend many hours wrestling with toolchains before I could be productive.
Damn you, Sharp!!!
Chris Radlinski
Plymouth, MN
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To make it clear, I bought a SL-6000L for myself (with expansion) knowing full well sharp would not support the item. It is a toy for me to play with, the company be damned.
Don't let the stupid stupid company screw up your play time with your geek toys.
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I am sorry to hear about Sharp, but I am not suprised. I had a bad feeling from the start, when one of the Sharp reps pointed me to http://myzaurus.com (http://myzaurus.com) which seems to focus on the earlier models. When I pointed this out, I was told to go to http://www.zaurus.com/dev/ (http://www.zaurus.com/dev/) which (I was told) is supposed to be for the 6k users, but also leans on the earlier models. Before I bought my 6kL I had planned to blow away the OS and load one of the Open Source OS's like http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/news (http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/news). I have not yet made the move, but I hope to soon. I am very glad that I got my 6kL, though I wish the 6kW had been avaiable to me.
Cheers,
lek
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I've never seen the Sharp Zaurus advertised anywhere. Most people don't know it exists. It's not carried at CompUSA, Best Buy, OfficeMax, or Office Depot.
The SL-5500 was sold in at least Office Depot and Best Buy for probably a couple of years, I think also Circuit City and some other places as well. It was in the weekly ads for some of these places on occasion as well. My local Office Depot had some leftover Zaurus accessories up until a few months ago.
That said, the average person that shops those places is not going to buy a Zaurus. Also, at that time, the software on the Zaurus was no where close to what it is today.
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I'm a bit upset that Sharp has dropped the Z here in the US, but not nearly as miffed at them as I am for not supporting it in any measurable way prior to dropping it. I've had mine for a few months now and have no major complaints about the machine, but it would have been nice if they could have supported it for a year or so (and I mean really supported it), so that the development community could have embraced it and created tools and apps that were native to it. The PIMs could be better, and it would be nice if there were more utilities as well, but with Sharp treating it like a niche product with no marketing and no access to replacement parts or accessories, it's no wonder that the buying public didn't embrace it. Hell, the buying public for the most part wasn't even aware of it!
I should be used to being left hanging by manufactures after having been left in the lurch by NEC, Phillips and HP for various devices I have bought from each of them. Very few manufacturers today have any sense of loyalty, or even accountability, and the lack of these is probably a common malady among companies that focus more on units sold, and the bottom line, than on the people who buy them (and the reasons they do buy them). That's the problem with having bean counters calling the shots I suppose.
At least those of us that bought them have stable, dependable systems that are the best mini-computers/PDAs available, imho.
Someday I'd like to own one of the smallest Sonys out there, or something else along the lines of the JVC Interlink, but those are Windows systems and that's a whole different ballgame. Be a perfect world if I could afford to buy one of them, and install Linux on it...
Cheers,
gdog
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I'm a bit upset that Sharp has dropped the Z here in the US, but not nearly as miffed at them as I am for not supporting it in any measurable way prior to dropping it. I've had mine for a few months now and have no major complaints about the machine, but it would have been nice if they could have supported it for a year or so (and I mean really supported it), so that the development community could have embraced it and created tools and apps that were native to it. The PIMs could be better, and it would be nice if there were more utilities as well, but with Sharp treating it like a niche product with no marketing and no access to replacement parts or accessories, it's no wonder that the buying public didn't embrace it. Hell, the buying public for the most part wasn't even aware of it!
I'm not really surprised Sharp have stopped supporting the Zaurus (at least in the US). Convergence is killing the pure-play PDA market in the US (and Europe). Sony dropped out of the US market and so may Toshiba (http://www.brighthand.com/article/More_Evidence_Toshiba_Exiting_Handheld_Market) (as the rumors have it ). Have you been in your local Best Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, Office Depot, etc.? The PDA line-up is anemic. The Circuit City near my office has about 6 PDAs on display, 2 of which are discontinued Sony's, the others are various Palm and PPC models. They all look "rode hard and put a way wet". It's the same at all the other stores and has been that way most of the summer. Unless we're on the cusp of a huge fall release of new PDAs I'd say we'll see the pure-play PDA market continue to shrink in the US. Most everyone I know (myself included) want their phone to take on the duties of their PDA. Why carry two devices?
There will still be a market for handhelds but I think they'll become more specialized -- think Fluke and Network General with their handheld packet sniffers. There also be a market for general purpose PDAs but I'm thinking Tungsten E. What'll be really interesting to watch is the "emerging" market for handheld computers like the OQO, FlipStart, Sony U50/U70 etc. Man Sharp had a head start! As big as the SL-6000 is just make it a bit wider, shoehorn in a hard drive a la iPod and voilà , pocket computer instead of "Personal Mobile Tool". Too bad they bailed! (Or did they -- Perhaps Sharp bailed on the PDA market. Could we see a Sharp handheld computer sometime in the future, based on Linux but having some beefier hardware behind it?)
The main problem IMO is Sharp never really wanted this market. I think their previous success in the Japanese market and the booming US PDA market made them think it was a bit of a slam dunk. Problem is they created a device only a geek could love. Look how big they are! The SL-6000 is almost as big as the Newton 2100 and despite being based on Linux just couldn't bring home the bacon. (Nothing has ever beat the Newton as a handheld computer -- the Zaurus is close but it was the little things. Did you ever write on a Newton? The screen had a slight roughness to it that made it feel like a high-grade cotton-bond paper under the stylus.) You gotta want a Zaurus to be happy with one.
What probably drew most of us to the Zaurus is what drew us to 'nix-like operating systems -- individual tools that do one or a few things well (except of course emacs which tries to do everything and well enough). How many on the boards have a cell phone, Zaurus and iPod (iRiver, Muvo, etc.)? I've used my Z for listening to music -- ho hum. I've tried to use my iPod as a contacts db -- !@#$% where's the iPod when I need a phone number? And the phone -- Verizon just LAST MONTH got ONE bluetooth phone; I'm not waiting on them for any more convergence. I've tried the thumb board on the Treo -- it stinks! And the phones that are coming out in clamshell format are way oversized for a phone. I said I want my phone to take on the duties of my PDA but NOT those of my Zaurus. I want it to synchronize with my phone list and have a copy of my schedule. But no way in the world do I plan to read ebooks on a 2.2" diagonal screen! I find the screen on my Z a bit challenging at times. I can't imagine trying to read or watch a movie for two hours on an airplane using a phone! (Hmmm...you're not supposed to have your phone on during the flight anyways.)
So yeah, I'm annoyed with Sharp. They hit the market guns a holstered in a shoot out against Palm and MS and failed (let's not even talk Apple and the Newton here). The problem is they just didn't want it. Look at MS -- man they wanted this market and so they iterated over the PocketPC platform for what the past 6 years and watched their market share grow -- at Palm's expense. Now that's a company that wanted to be where it is. Too bad they delivered an inferior product.
--Aaron
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Has Sharp discontinued the sl 6000? I was not able to find it on Amazon.com.
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Right here
Zaurus SL-6000 Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001W17H2/qid=1097621564/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-4220864-4523047?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846)
And it's going for $400!!
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I know this reply is a bit late, but...
I am still trying to decide which to buy, 6000 or a T5 + Palm SD WIFI card.
6000 is way cheaper than before on Amazon.com now, and T5 is $400.00
As a current palm user I have been reading and the palm platform has advanced quite far the last couple of years. (Software I mean, hardware still lagging behind) SMB mounts over WIFI, shoutcast streaming, native ms office editing, dvd watching, vnc, and the T5 now has internal flash drive (160 MB) are all now possible.
Of course the Z can do this plus much more, but from what I read on the boards here, you have to mess with it alot to get these things working correctly. I run SUSE 8.2 on my home box and love it, but config of new apps and such is still a pain, but works great once I got it running just right. Just dont know if I want to go through this with a PDA, Been using a Handspring Prism for a very long time.
What should I do? (need non-bais opinion, J/k)
palm T5 (or other palm os)
Or
SL-6000 (or 860, ect.)
(MS PDA's not an option)
Thanks.
-metal9966
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I know this reply is a bit late, but...
Yes, you _may_ have difficulty getting a SL-6000 (in the US) these days.
That said, it depends on what you want to do with the little machine. If you just want it to carry a copy of your desktop info (ie. sync-ing) Get the PalmOS device.
If you want a standalone kick-ass little computer to do things like run a web server, VNC, ssh and so forth, then consider the Zaurus.
I hope this helps,
Craig...
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Yes, you _may_ have difficulty getting a SL-6000 (in the US) these days.
Why do you say that? Amazon still shows as having stock.
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I think cvmiller is right, I think they are offloading the remaining 6000's on amazon.com, thats why its so cheap compaired to earlier pricing. Thats why I need to decide now!
I think my real question is:
1. How much time is spent trying to config, compaired to using with good relability? I like to play with things, and as I am a linux newbie, I have found out that it is sometimes difficult to get things right. I keep messing with my Linux box at home for fun, and have now set up a Rock hard stable Linux server at work in place of using an old Win 98 box as a server. (restarted win every week, Linux is so, so, much better), I am just not sure that I want that in a PDA.
2. Programming. I have read alot of threads conscerning Java on the Z. Can you run say Freemind on the Z? How about the JPluck java app? Do they run or are they to bloated for J2me? What about Python Support, is it the full python or small subset like in palm OS? I am starting to mess with Python. Is smallbasic implemended on the Z like in Linux/win/palm OS? Thanks.
Thanks.
-metal9966
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What should I do? (need non-bais opinion, J/k)
As cvmiller said it is going to depend on what you want you hand held to do. For me the PIM and sync is a nice extra but not what I really need out of my handheld. I need to be able to ssh to any of my servers, uses vim locally, surf the web, view pdf manuals, and keep a password database. What finally made me decide that the SL-6000 was my best option to upgrade to from my Treo 180 was that the Zaurus did what I wanted with a 600x480 screen making it most like a postable computer to me, whihc is what I want from a handheld.
So I would recommend deciding what you what you hand held to do for you.
The zaurus is a great handheld computer but it can not compare to palm when it comes to the pim and syncing the pim. I uses kopi, ompi, and kapi which work well enough for me but I know from a time when I keep my life in my palm that it would not work as well as DateBook 5 did.
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Metal9966,
I don't have enough experience (yet...) to offer qualified advice on your #2 point, although it is something I'm too very interested in exploring.
However, as far as #1 is concerned, I believe you have not too much to be worried. One of the beauty of the Zaurus is that you have to go "under the hood" only if you want too. Granted, as a PDA it is certainly not the most polished around, but it can be used as a decent PDA and be "unleashed" to full power when you want.
To make an analogy, I see it pretty much like chosing a car: If you only care about being transported from point A to point B, almost any car can be a good fit. However, if you are the kind of guy who likes driving and having fun while still going front point A to point B, then you get something sportier. The sporty car will still carry you from point A to point B, but the possibilities are up to a whole new level...
Aren't few things in life not just about the destination, but rather about the journey? Get a Palm or a PPC and you will have good PDA functions, some advanced functionality and you may even learn a thing or two in the process. Get a Zaurus with Linux and your learning opportunities become virtually endless, not to mention the fun factor.
I like to think of my SL-6000L as a personal trainer for my brain...
And by the way, I'm talking as an hard core Psion user who has only recently entered the Zaurus universe. While the world was going Palm in the early 90s I got a Psion 3c. Few years later Windows CE clamshell machines arrived, but the 3c stayed. Few years ago the PPC started and I decided to upgrade to a Psion 5mx...
Then Psion left the pocket computer market and I would have probably ended buying one of those "hi-end" PPC, had I not run by chance into the SL-C700 announcement while running a google search for a "PDA with keyboard". Man, what a discovery!!!!! Just thinking of the possibilities opened by such a platform was mind boggling.
For at least a year I have been waiting for the right opportunity to get one of those Zaurus Linux boxes. When I saw Amazon slashing the price almost 50%, that was it... I ordered the SL-6000L and I'm loving it.
Give it a try, especially if you already know Linux and want to do programming. What's the risk? You can easily return it or resell it on eBay in few months and probably even make some money in the process!!!!
Enjoy the journey....
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GoLinux & nevarrie,
Thanks for all the input, GoLinux has the best point that I can sell the 6000 if I dont like it. Hmmm... maby buy a 6000 and a Cheap palm Zire for pims, Sounds like a plan. Thanks for all the input, I will hopefully make up my mind soon!
Metal9966
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If you decide to go with the Z, I would recommend that you NOT run out too quickly to buy that cheap Zire. Give KO/pi and KA/pi a chance first. These are really excellent PIMs. Frankly, I think it's the rare person who needs more than these offer. They have excellent synching capabilities with multiple devices and formats; they're being actively developed and the developers are accessible and listen to suggestion; and they're also multi-platform which means you can have the exact same PIM application running on your desktop with full syncing.
I'm really curious: what does datebk5 offer that Kx/pi doesn't? (No hyperbole here, I'm genuinely curious.)
~ray
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datebk5: easy to use. fast (kopi is so slow...). But the best is the well though user interface: to add something in the schedule, you just click on the line of the hour you want it, and start to type. no confirmation, no special panel, no nothing - unless you want it and click on some menu. that's efficiency.
browsing between the day/week/month view is blazing fast too. datebk5 is miles ahead of anything I've tried, on any pda.
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I think cvmiller is right,
I think my real question is:
2. Programming. I have read alot of threads conscerning Java on the Z. Can you run say Freemind on the Z? How about the JPluck java app? Do they run or are they to bloated for J2me? What about Python Support, is it the full python or small subset like in palm OS? I am starting to mess with Python. Is smallbasic implemended on the Z like in Linux/win/palm OS? Thanks.
It always nice to be right ;-)
I haven't done any Java programming, but a key difference between the SL-6000 and previous Zaurii is that the SL-6000 has a real Sun JVM on it, as opposed to Joede. Of course this can be a problem if you want to run the older java stuff designed to run on the SL-6000 (like jSolun).
But if you writing you own stuff, and know how to set the classpath and all, then you should be happy with the JVM on the SL-6000.
I have done Python programming on the Zaurus, and it works great! The maintainer has changed since I last did any python, but it isn't hard to find it. And the nice thing about Python is that the pyc files are platform independent. So if you want to use something you don't have just copy the pyc file over, and you'll have it!
I haven't played with basic in ages, and why would you if you have python...
Also there is PHP for the Zaurus as well (with Apache), so yet another programming language to use on the Zaurus.
I hope this answers #2 for you.
Craig...
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datebk5: easy to use. fast (kopi is so slow...). But the best is the well though user interface: to add something in the schedule, you just click on the line of the hour you want it, and start to type. no confirmation, no special panel, no nothing - unless you want it and click on some menu. that's efficiency.
browsing between the day/week/month view is blazing fast too. datebk5 is miles ahead of anything I've tried, on any pda.
Hmm... I'm using Kx/pi on a C860 and, while some of the more complex screens are a bit slow the first time they're drawn, the speed is certainly not unbearable. I guess it would be a bit slower on the 5x00 machines. The 6k has a faster processor such as the C860 though, right? So the speed should be about the same. So, I guess this is subjective. It's not unbearable for me at all. Heck, I used to use the tkc pims and they're considerably slower (until, perhaps, the latest releases)!
Also, many shortcuts for creating events by clicking on dates, etc., are implemented in KO/pi. For example, from the day view, double-tap on the box to the right of the time and you can quickly enter an event for the corresponding time. If your tapping is accurate enough, you can even choose a 15 minute period within the hour! The same works from the month view (albeit, using a default time) and I assume the others as well (haven't tried).
I presume there must be other things that you left out though?.....
~ray
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hard to say specifically- try datebk5 on a palm. It's a great experience -simple to use for simple things, yet powerfull if you want to do complex things. I never really experienced that on the zaurus - except with qualendar
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Today after months of e-mails and phone calls I have finally recieved a straight answer. Per Ken Shaw from Sharp they discontinued sales as of 60 days ago and do not plan to come back to US PDA market. So if you were thinking of buying the SL-6000 now is the time. We have already had to raise prices because we simply can't find them like we could months ago. Sorry for the bad news looks like we will be getting them from Japan once again.
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in the near future, sharp will come back.
the USA is technologically and socially backwards compared to our asian counterpart. It will take time for us to embrace these new technologies. I saw a show about a comparison of amercans and the japanese. Our social structure is pretty much stuck in oldschool while they are more advanced meaning, their society actually uses technology to communicate and read. We are still stuck to the phone poll and make phone calls from a phone booth and read off books.
We are catching up though and when that time comes, they will come back.
What i want to know is if the zaurus usergroup community is going to stick around and translate, make software, and produce stuff that will work off the sharp linux line of pda's?
sorry for the bad grammer.
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Cresho.
thanks for the response. I believe this answer to be "yes". The zaurus line is meeting the demands of the IT community while is also becoming popular among everyday users. I am working with a company now who is into medical billing and will be developing software to use with the 3000 series to give to Doctors as a gift upon joining on. My guess is they will use this for tracking info and billing inquiries as well as an organizer so to speak. They forsee 100's of these units in the first quarter so I think this line is growing in the US but with Sharps "no marketing solution" it can't be embraced because its not widely known. You can't beat the look of the Zaurus adn I haven't read a post where people are unhappy about what they are getting once you have one can you really live without it
Stephen
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Will the Zaurus community stick around? I think that's a definite YES
Will people still write Zaurus software? MAYBE
With the ability to run other ROMs or Debian (Pocketworkstation) on the Zaurus, there's actually little need to create custom Qtopia applications, when you can run standard X software.
For example, the Qtopia version of GAIM is way out of date, but if you use Pocketworkstation, you can always apt-get the latest version and just use it
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Yea but no but yea but --- Pocket workstation is freekin 'orrible
I use Debian all the time (and adore it). PW represents poor example of Debians cababilities and imho really isn't suitable for the Z x-factor.
Or maybe I just couldn't get it right
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There will most likely be Qtopia pda applications being developed. There will also be Qtopia phone applications being developed, these will be easily made to run on qtopia pda.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.
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But only in Japan, if we look at the Z.
If I can get something that looks like a Treo, with a 320x320 resolution, inbuilt SD, Wifi and Bluetooth, and runs Linux and has an Opie release, we could have a real winner.
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Maybe so, but I'd hate to lose my big keyboard and screen. I've used Palm for years - starting with a Palm Pro and ending with a Clie TJ35 (320x320, 200mhz Strongarm, 32mb Ram). For 3 of those years I had 5xxx Zaurii, and while they were fun they weren't very practical.
1 week after getting the 860 and discovering Ko/Pi I was gone. 640x480 screen, strong battery life, and a keyboard I could literally use for hours at a time. (I spent almost 5 hours doing some writing on my 860 on my flight back from Japan) . I don't *want* a PDA with a smaller res screen anymore.
Sharp shot themselves in the foot in North America. They gave up on the consumer market after lackluster sales of the 5x00 series (with the weak software, poor battery life and so-so screens).
The 6000, were it to have been released as a reasonably priced, reasonably sized (aka non-hardened) unit would probably have done much better in the consumer market: It had more polished apps, better battery and screen, and a more complete feature set with the wireless and USB host. Unfortunately what we got was an overpriced and sized Enterprise marketed brick.
Now, dismayed by poor sales, they refuse to even try selling their truly innovative clamshell designs here at all. AARGH!
The Qtopia platform isn't dead. I don't forsee Sharp abandoning the C series in Japan any time soon - the 860s were for sale just about everywhere over there when I visited last October. The new Archos Jukebox runs qtopia (but only has a 320x480 screen - Double AARGH!), and there's the new Phone version to consider.
I suppose it's somewhat comforting to note that if I want a new Z badly enough, I can get one. Either by grey market import, or a leisurely 10 1/2 hr hop across the Pacific.
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Actually you can. Take a look at the Motorola e680. It doesn't have wifi, but it's a telephone as well. I'm thinking of jumping for one.