OESF Portables Forum
Model Specific Forums => Gemini PDA => Gemini PDA - General Discussion => Topic started by: 1668880 on May 22, 2018, 07:29:42 am
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4G Gemini users using x25 chip (early release Geminis) should download the 4G Gemini x25 firmware. Finally, the Gemini 4G x27 users should download the 4G Gemini x27 firmware. If you are not sure about your Gemini version, just check under Settings → Wireless & networks. If you see a menu called SIM cards, then you have an x27 Gemini, otherwise you have an x25 Gemini.”
So Why is it that the X25 does not have the second sim card?
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Planet Computers
Campaigner
1 hour ago
Hi, thanks for the comment. The eSIM feature is exclusive to the x27 variant of the Gemini and it's a design/compatibility choice. -E
1668880
less than a minute ago
Then my unit needs to be swapped because I was under the impression the Gemini came with an eSIM and due to the screw up by PC some Gemini's shipped with the X25 chip. This is not right I worked just as hard for my money as the next person and to get a model that is lacking for the same price as one that has a better CPU and an e SIM is not leaving a good impression with me. No were was it said that there was going to be different models of the Wi-Fi +4G Gemini ..
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Are any eSIM connections available yet (or in the near future)?
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I seem to recall reading that the Apple Watch is the only device with an eSIM that can currently be provisioned by many carriers, at least here in the UK.
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Are any eSIM connections available yet (or in the near future)?
Not yet in the USA, so I decided to go ahead and back the Gemini since it had an eSIM in it. Not many of the carriers here want to support a phone that can easily be swapped to another carrier.
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I, too, backed the Gemini for the future eventuality of having eSIM options.
Although, given the leadened, foot-dragging by US cell phone manufacturers to build eSIM capable phones, I frankly think eSIM is years away here. The Gemini V1.0 might be dead-battery useless 3+ years from now. But, I hope there are future iterations of the Gemini (v2.0, V3.0) available then so we can benefit from eSIM's inevitability.
Cheers.
Are any eSIM connections available yet (or in the near future)?
Not yet in the USA, so I decided to go ahead and back the Gemini since it had an eSIM in it. Not many of the carriers here want to support a phone that can easily be swapped to another carrier.
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Do we have a written source from Planet Computers confirming 100% this really means the x25 Geminis would not be able to support eSIM? From where does "The eSIM feature is exclusive to the x27 variant of the Gemini and it's a design/compatibility choice. -E" quote come (and who is "E")?
I find this a bit odd, since eSIM support, as I recall it, was advertised during the crowdfundig phase, long before the x27 upgrade was announced, and eSIM is still in the official specification. Their footnote about "working hard to achieve the above technical specifications" reasonably means they have work left to do, presumably on the software side, but with the prototyping phase ended, and the spec. still there, it does reasonably no longer leave any room for not delivering as specified.
I have read the "Firmware" section of the Planet Computers support site, which confirms x25 and x27 4G Geminis do have different firmwares (which seems a tad strange, as the chips are supposedly identical, except for minor differences in a few peak clock rates). While it does say the x25 and x27 can be told apart by the presence or absence of a "SIM cards" menu, I don't see anything saying that means no eSIM for x25.
Do we have hard data on that anywhere?
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This is a quote I got from Planet support
May 22, 17:01 WET
Thanks for your response. Another question, I assume the Gemini unit is eSIM capable even with the X25 chipset correct.
Erkan Saliev (Planet Computers)
May 23, 08:37 WET
Hi Ishman,
Thank you for coming back to us, I hope you're having a good day.
The X25 units are not compatible with eSIM, however, I'd like to remind that again eSIM is a feature that is in a very early stage of global standardisation. What I mean, is that eSIM is currently only compatible with carrier networks focusing on development and testing, it's not available for the general consumer with mainstream carriers. It is up to the carrier to implement the new eSIM standard and the majority of them don't support it as of yet.
Kind regards,
Erkan
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Do we have a written source from Planet Computers confirming 100% this really means the x25 Geminis would not be able to support eSIM? From where does "The eSIM feature is exclusive to the x27 variant of the Gemini and it's a design/compatibility choice. -E" quote come (and who is "E")?
I find this a bit odd, since eSIM support, as I recall it, was advertised during the crowdfundig phase, long before the x27 upgrade was announced, and eSIM is still in the official specification. Their footnote about "working hard to achieve the above technical specifications" reasonably means they have work left to do, presumably on the software side, but with the prototyping phase ended, and the spec. still there, it does reasonably no longer leave any room for not delivering as specified.
I have read the "Firmware" section of the Planet Computers support site, which confirms x25 and x27 4G Geminis do have different firmwares (which seems a tad strange, as the chips are supposedly identical, except for minor differences in a few peak clock rates). While it does say the x25 and x27 can be told apart by the presence or absence of a "SIM cards" menu, I don't see anything saying that means no eSIM for x25.
Do we have hard data on that anywhere?
I seem to recall them saying something like "We haven't been able to implement eSim on the first units (don't think there was any mention of X25, think it was before they were aware of that) YET, and chose to ship them now rather than wait until we got it solved". So the "the X25 CAN'T get eSim" is only mentioned in passing later. And if it is true it should be a reason for Planet to get new units from the manufacturer (and not just an apology...), and thus getting replacement units to the backers as well, at least in my opinion (not that it would carry to much weight, as it is only my opinion...).
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I seem to recall them saying something like "We haven't been able to implement eSim on the first units (don't think there was any mention of X25, think it was before they were aware of that) YET, and chose to ship them now rather than wait until we got it solved". So the "the X25 CAN'T get eSim" is only mentioned in passing later. And if it is true it should be a reason for Planet to get new units from the manufacturer (and not just an apology...), and thus getting replacement units to the backers as well, at least in my opinion (not that it would carry to much weight, as it is only my opinion...).
That would seem reasonable, though I'd prefer repair over replacement, as tossing an otherwise working (I hope) device would be rather wasteful. What really distresses me, is that I had to learn about this from a forum. Why did they not tell the truth openly?
To the best of my knowledge, eSIM support has always been in the published target specification, first with the X25, then with the X27, and now in the final specification on the web site. Planet Computers told me my X25 4G Gemini would perform as well as the X27, but not, as far as I know, that it would have a broken eSIM. If true, Planet Computers has knowingly, without my consent, sent me a defective unit, and may have explanations to do, motherboards to fix and a reputation to repair.
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I seem to recall them saying something like "We haven't been able to implement eSim on the first units (don't think there was any mention of X25, think it was before they were aware of that) YET, and chose to ship them now rather than wait until we got it solved". So the "the X25 CAN'T get eSim" is only mentioned in passing later. And if it is true it should be a reason for Planet to get new units from the manufacturer (and not just an apology...), and thus getting replacement units to the backers as well, at least in my opinion (not that it would carry to much weight, as it is only my opinion...).
That would seem reasonable, though I'd prefer repair over replacement, as tossing an otherwise working (I hope) device would be rather wasteful. What really distresses me, is that I had to learn about this from a forum. Why did they not tell the truth openly?
To the best of my knowledge, eSIM support has always been in the published target specification, first with the X25, then with the X27, and now in the final specification on the web site. Planet Computers told me my X25 4G Gemini would perform as well as the X27, but not, as far as I know, that it would have a broken eSIM. If true, Planet Computers has knowingly, without my consent, sent me a defective unit, and may have explanations to do, motherboards to fix and a reputation to repair.
The Gemini Early-bird Special
The Gemini PDA keyboard mobile device with WiFi and 4G connectivity. $250 off the final retail price exclusively for our Indiegogo backers. You will get your unit from our first production run. No units will be available for general release until you receive your Gemini. Early-bird Special ships in November 2017.
So I went back to see what was said about the Gemini I backed. And no where did I find anything saying that I would be receiving an eSIMless variant of the Gemini or that I would be getting the X25 variant of the Gemini. PC needs to correct this since they are shipping out variants of the Gemini and never informed anyone that there would be variants of the Gemini.
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Well... mea culpa!
After ranting above about not being told, today, among some random papers, I found a letter that came with my Gemini, clearly stating that in order to not cause further delays, my Gemini (presumably the entire first batch) was made without e-SIM support. And yes, I've read it before. How close I was to send an angry email, and appear as a complete idiot.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
When I read about the issue above, I first got the impression PC decided to not support e-SIM on specifically the X25 Geminis, but as PC supposedly didn't even know X25 units were made, how could they then tell the factory to make them differently? They didn't. It rather seems they told the factory to leave the e-SIM out of first batch because of other issues. That the same batch also is the one in which the factory used the wrong SoC seems to be an unrelated coincidence.
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I think this is one of the problems of backing an indigogo or kickstarter project, there's really no guarantee of precisely what you'll get if anything. I only just got my G, some people have had theirs for many weeks. I'm glad I placed my order in time for the indiegogo discount.
I think if Planet had known about the x25 vs x27 problem, they would have held the x25 chips back for the wifi only models as that would then have been a non-issue.
There's no easy answer, other than to hope that the e-sim problem can be solved with a firmware update some time.
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Well... mea culpa!
After ranting above about not being told, today, among some random papers, I found a letter that came with my Gemini, clearly stating that in order to not cause further delays, my Gemini (presumably the entire first batch) was made without e-SIM support. And yes, I've read it before. How close I was to send an angry email, and appear as a complete idiot.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
When I read about the issue above, I first got the impression PC decided to not support e-SIM on specifically the X25 Geminis, but as PC supposedly didn't even know X25 units were made, how could they then tell the factory to make them differently? They didn't. It rather seems they told the factory to leave the e-SIM out of first batch because of other issues. That the same batch also is the one in which the factory used the wrong SoC seems to be an unrelated coincidence.
If the letter came with the Gemini then what good did it do? Mine did not come with a letter and Planet did not post it on Indiegogo under the updates. So to me they sent something different then what I backed for. I understand the screen size and battery size changes because they applied to all the Geminis but to be sent a Gemini that does not have the items that caused you to back it is Bs. I am waiting to see How planet is going to fix this for the backers who speak up about this.
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I have a x25 and a x27 device. The x25 only has one network signal strength indicator therefore assumed no eSim.
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Didn't Planet say something like only the early bird units (~1000 or so) received the x25. These were priced lower, so fair enough.
Anyway as it stands, carriers won't just provision any eSIM equipped device. The chances of your service provider directly supporting the Gemini are very, very, (in the US, very, very, very) slim.
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Nobody wants to receive less than what they paid for, agreed. That said, remember this isn't a shop, it's an experiment with our money. We all go into it knowing full well we may receive *nothing* (and I have; I've been stiffed on 3 campaigns to date and another one is well past 1yr late).
Planet said from the beginning the spec was the target, and subject to change. NFC was included for early backers; nobody got NFC. The battery was supposed to be 8000mAh, it's half that. eSIM appears to have been similar for some folks.
If you can't handle backing a hardware project where specs might change along the way, don't back a hardware project. Wait for it to be completed, finalized, and placed for sale as a standard "here's the item, here's the price" sale.
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https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/arti...rn-ref-ent-trus (https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526816-How-to-Evaluate-a-Campaign?utm_source=learn&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ent-trustandsafety&utm_content=bodylink&r=lrn-ref-ent-trus)
"It's important to know that you are not buying an existing product.
Like anyone getting in on an early-stage project, you accept the risk that the project may experiences changes, delays, unforeseen challenges, and it's possible that a project you fund might not come to fruition. We leave it up to you to make your own judgment about a campaign’s merits before making a contribution."
however, one problem is that in this page: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-p...bile-device--2/ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device--2/)
under "Risks & Challenges"
it doesn't properly explain which features were already decisively fixed and which were still aspirational in the technical specifications list.
Now, I do sympathise with people who were less lucky, it's not entirely Planet's fault about the X25 vs X27 thing, but really, we received everything that mattered in the original Indiegogo campaign, and the x25 vs x27 doesn't actually matter.
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https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/arti...rn-ref-ent-trus (https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526816-How-to-Evaluate-a-Campaign?utm_source=learn&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ent-trustandsafety&utm_content=bodylink&r=lrn-ref-ent-trus)
I do sympathise with people who were less lucky, it's not entirely Planet's fault about the X25 vs X27 thing, but really, we received everything that mattered in the original Indiegogo campaign, and the x25 vs x27 doesn't actually matter.
So x25 vs x27 deosn't actually matter to you I bet because you got the x27. While I know backing a project means you get a work in progress I have backed multiple projects that then fix and add things based on the backers opinions. But everyone got the same item with the same hardware in it. When the project creators were ready to launch version 2 many of us returned to back them and most were kind enough to reward us for it. Also the first 1000 backers were to get the x25 but then Planet had issues with keyboards and they then skipped over some of the first thousand backers and just went on down the line passing out the x25. I was not among the first 1000 but was Order ID 1115, Order Date March 3, 2017. So as I said before I am waiting to see how planet is going to fix this as My Gemini's right USB-C port is not working with the HDMI adapter that was sent with it from planet.
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If the letter came with the Gemini then what good did it do? Mine did not come with a letter...
The point was that some posts earlier, I had asked for a written source to confirm that the claim that the x25 wouldn't have e-SIM wasn't just an unfounded rumor. Well, I had that written source myself, all along. Silly me.
Also, in that letter I got (read, and - apparently - forgot), they explained they presumed I preferred to get my Gemini earlier, rather than wait for them to sort out the e-SIM issues. Towards the end of the letter, they invited me to contact them, should I wish to discuss this further, because they want backer to love their Geminis.
Had I done so, and explained e-SIM was important to me (it could be, as three operators around here alread has launched some e-SIM support), I presume I had been given the option to return the Gemini and wait for one up-to-spec. Since, after giving it some thought, I don't think it matters enough to me, I haven't contacted them. Anyone for whom it does matter, do contact them and explain you do require e-SIM support.
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There's no easy answer, other than to hope that the e-sim problem can be solved with a firmware update some time.
While I would love to be wrong, to the best of my understanding, the first batch was deliberately manufactured without a physical e-SIM chip soldered to the PCB, presumably because there were hardware issues they hadn't been able to solve in time (and, by unrelated coincidence, that batch also happened, by mistake, to get X25 chips).
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I will not be surprised if Gemini e-SIM never works on any of this model of Gemini, the networks may yet mess with the specification and not ever be compatible with early adopters.
Networks are not crazy about e-sim because it passes some of their control over to hardware, I would expect them to change it to keep that control.