Messages

1

OpenBSD / 4.3 Snapshot - New And Improved Install/enjoyment Docs, Etc

« on: October 01, 2008, 01:54:16 am »

Just seen that 4.4 is to be released on Nov 1st.  I might hang on for that.

If you have the base packages pre-downloaded (and made available from a local webserver) it's possible to do an installation in about 15 minutes, otherwise maybe 1/2hr. Might as well just go for it. Sleep works, most everything else you mentioned works far as I know (sd isn't happening on my 3200). I don't know that 4.4 is going to have much new for the Z; not to dissuade you in any way, but presents for Z users are fewer and farther between as time drones on.

2

OpenBSD / 4.3 Snapshot - New And Improved Install/enjoyment Docs, Etc

« on: September 28, 2008, 03:42:17 pm »

but aren't the general ARM packages supposed to be compatible with Zaurus?

They are. I use the xscale er...optimalizations, plus there are some interesting differences in package inventory.

3

OpenBSD / 4.3 Snapshot - New And Improved Install/enjoyment Docs, Etc

« on: September 08, 2008, 08:58:33 pm »

1- ...to use your compiled packages, I need to use the snapshot you used (avaiable in the link above), right?
2- Assuming that I am right in the questions above, you need to provide the ports.tar.gz you are using (from the snapshot you used) to people (like me) that may need or test other apps that you did not compile until now.

Thanks for the props; The packages I compiled are from the same release date as the snapshot, so that would theoretically give you an ideal system (cept you'll want those packages I didn't build, natch). You can use packages from other release dates as well, but the more distant the time-span between snapshot and package (or port), the more likely you'll encounter a dependency version-mismatch. I recommend just going for it; install a package, see if it works, if not, remove it.

I'd put the ports.tar.gz here, to somewhat resemble the official tree, but thanks for letting me know that should be more explicit in the tute:

http://planetofidiots.com/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/

4

OpenBSD / 4.3 Snapshot - New And Improved Install/enjoyment Docs, Etc

« on: July 05, 2008, 04:19:29 pm »

Yes please explain why....

1. Puffy Adventure Cartoons with every CD set.
2. Lots of stickers in there too.
3. Bonus OpenBSD song.

Ok now there's some understandable controversy surrounding use of obsd songs as a valid benchmark. Sometimes they aren't really rocking in the empirical sense, IMHO. Their inclusion does, however, signal an acceptably rocking attitude, so I have to give em two thumbs up!

There's probably a bunch of reasons _other people use OpenBSD; perhaps operating the Google for a spell might shake out a bucket of love with your name on it. Just as a sample to get you started, try a phrase like "why openbsd" in the google search thingy.

This Nick Holland guy is pretty darned smart, too, maybe check out what he has to say. OpenBSD mailing lists are excellent information sources as well. Have fun out there!

http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive/misc...1/msg00975.html

5

OpenBSD / 4.3 Snapshot - New And Improved Install/enjoyment Docs, Etc

« on: June 26, 2008, 10:37:23 am »

Hello again,

New and Improved™ C-series install/enjoyment docs and xscale-optimized packages now available for 4.3 snapshot.

www.planetofidiots.com

Potential New Users: If I've succeeded here, this might be your "fast track" to checking out OpenBSD on the Z. The goal was to create a one-stop site where base packages match the pre-built ports, theoretically making it easier for new users to experience unconditional love and perhaps slowing the natural decay of obsd-on-z excitement.

Do I have to explain why OpenBSD is incredibly cool? No? PHEW!

Corrections/Additions/Complaints/Requests welcome as always.


The following included for convenience, if you're unfamiliar it's best to examine docs at the link provided above first.

packages:
http://www.planetofidiots.com/pub/OpenBSD/...ackages/zaurus/

base-install files:
http://www.planetofidiots.com/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/zaurus/

6

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: June 05, 2007, 10:44:38 am »

Still double the time under pdaXrom. Any explanation?

Possibly the biggest factors there are Theo's development priorities, although I'm sure there's much more to the details than I'm able to illuminate. FWIW, those priorities are what keep this user interested...(well, that and: I have no doubt pdaXrom is ideal for many users, but my experience there led me to believe management was ad-hoc at best, developer shortages chronic, long-term outlook shaky, communication to user-base very not good. Just my personal opinion, not trying to scare anyone away from a speedy rom that works for them!)

I'm thinking the OpenBSD team is handling the distro, Uwe and others handle the Z port (much smaller relative effort), and that's what we're using...contrasted with other roms which are trying to maintain an entire distro/port...I don't know if that approach can scale over time vs. developer-base, especially as the Z is overtaken by new hardwares and interest wanes.

OpenBSD's performance and usability is occasionally criticised. Felix von Leitner's performance and scalability tests,[44] indicated that OpenBSD lagged behind other operating systems. In response, OpenBSD users and developers criticised von Leitner's objectivity and methodology, and asserted that although performance is given consideration, security and correct design are prioritised, with developer Nick Holland commenting: "It all boils down to what you consider important."[45] OpenBSD is also a relatively small project, particularly when compared with FreeBSD and Linux, and developer time is sometimes seen as better spent on security enhancements than performance optimisations. Critics of usability often point out the lack of user-friendly configuration tools, the bare default installation,[46] and "spartan" and "intimidating" installer.[47] These see much the same rebuttals as performance: a preference for simplicity, reliability and security; as one reviewer admits, "running an ultra-secure operating system can be a bit of work."[48]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD

7

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: June 02, 2007, 07:15:09 pm »

@gen2: Are your packages compiled with optimization flags? In fact I find firefox and abiword in the feed take much longer time to start than under pdaX. Firefox takes 8 to 9 minutes to launch (!) and abiword takes a minute or two, while under pdaX it's 2 minute and a few seconds respectively. 
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162404\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Just re-compiled abiword so we can have a psuedo-official comparison of flags:

Code: [Select]

export CPPFLAGS="-mcpu=xscale"
    export CFLAGS="-mcpu=xscale"
    export CXXFLAGS="-mcpu=xscale"
Abiword took 48 seconds to open.

Code: [Select]

export CPPFLAGS="-mcpu=xscale"
    export CFLAGS="-mcpu=xscale -mtune=xscale -O2 -pipe"
    export CXXFLAGS="-mcpu=xscale -mtune=xscale -O2 -pipe"
Abiword took 47 seconds to open.

Too close to even say there's a difference in this case, far as I can tell.

8

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: June 02, 2007, 09:57:03 am »

@gen2: Are your packages compiled with optimization flags? In fact I find firefox and abiword in the feed take much longer time to start than under pdaX. Firefox takes 8 to 9 minutes to launch (!) and abiword takes a minute or two, while under pdaX it's 2 minute and a few seconds respectively. 
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162404\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I used -mcpu=xscale (only) for the first 1/2 (or so) of it, then saw your post and added -pipe -mtune=xscale -O2 within a day or 2. Firefox and Abiword had already been done though. Is  the difference in speed you're citing just the result of the additional flags, or also some other factors, I wonder?
Anecdotally I've heard pdaX is faster, especially regarding video, but never done any benchmarking here. I'd be happily surprised if the new flags were the only difference between 8 minute and 2 minute launch times for firefox.

FWIW, firefox opens here in 3:45, abiword in 48 seconds...siag 7 (!) seconds...siag is pretty cool, btw, if you haven't checked it out, it's got an abiword-like thing in there in addition to spreadsheets and other stuff.

9

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: June 02, 2007, 04:36:37 am »

i think the question has yet been asked but can we mix all that or should we make separate named feeds
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162396\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I haven't mixed packages yet, but I think if all the dependencies are available in the correct versions for a given package, shouldn't be a problem.  Might be as simple as just going for it; if it runs, great, if not, delete it or dig into the requirements.

10

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: June 01, 2007, 11:37:16 pm »

i've just installed GENERIC#113, is it the one you're using ?

what about compiling pidgin for us ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162336\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Using #110, and it looks like pidgin was added to ports a few days after I'd done the initial install, so it's not onboard atm else I'd knock that out for you. After this "pass" (ending soon-ish), I'll probably run thru an upgrade and get to some of the new ports.

Package burning has reached a micro-industrial scale somewhat inadvertently here - might be time to start cross compiling (and I'd love to bring some stuff in from outside of the standard tree)...Can I get it rolling before job/work crushes my zaurus timelines? Maybe...Maybe!

11

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: May 24, 2007, 03:18:38 pm »

Just setup a cross compile environment. Port building is a little bit harder but they complete in minutes instead of days.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Love to see your how-to on that! Welcome addition here.


Lot of people talk about how easy cross compiling is, but after having done it, I rather enjoy plugging in a batchlist and getting other work done. It took me about 3 (maybe 4) actual hands-on hours to create near 600 packages the steam-powered way. Cross building 1/10 of that, maybe even 1/100th (if I tried it anyway) would take...longer.

12

OpenBSD / Packages Repository

« on: May 23, 2007, 09:08:42 pm »

So what would be the direction from here? :rolloeyes:  It may not be a good idea to have several feeds whose packages are not compatible with one another.

Next time around I'll keep the snapshot files I used, with the packages that came from it in one place. Not sure if we can really avoid the mismatch situation other than specifying which snapshot built what repos...I build everything here just to avoid the hassles...bummer if posting packages is just adding mayhem, although I don't know the extent of complications "out there". Smoke em if you got em.


Perhaps we develop some guidelines for all the nice people migrating over from uhhh... yaknow....  


maybe even try a coordinated attack on new releases, 4 or 5 (10-20?) people hitting different parts of the ports tree from the same snapshot, we can be up and rolling pretty quick, knock the whole tree down in a week or less, arm-farm stylee

13

Zaurus - pdaXrom / New Rom Gentoo On Zaurus

« on: May 22, 2007, 12:27:24 pm »

if you really really want an OS on zaurus which is "natively" built, then you really want to use distcc and a cross-compiler on a nearby server so that the Z doesn't have to do any compiling, and the PC does the heavy lifting.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

That is indeed how it's usually done around here (save for the distcc maybe), I'm just saying that from the perspective of one who does compile on the Z, I've found the process more reliable and less involved than cross compiling (cross toolchain maintenance does not enjoy a happy reputation), and nowhere near as painful as people claim around here.

And we're ignoring the fact that cross compiling means you have to address each package one at a time, and handle all of your dependency issues manually, correct me if I'm wrong.

"If you really really want an OS on zaurus which is "natively" built..."

Native isn't really really the point, per se. And I'm not trying to "rice up" my Z with compiler flags; just after simple things like stability, manageability, sanity. In fact, OpenBSD developers compile zaurus releases on their Z's because of the simplicity of it, not to mention it eliminates a slew of possible (subtle, and not so subtle) integration issues. Check out OpenBSD.org.

In my world, I create a batch list of packages I want (simple text file list), point ports at that, and everything automagically builds, hands-free, go play golf or whatever, come back tomorrow and you have a bunch of fresh packages that actually WORK. I'm calling that easier by several orders of magnitude, and fully accessible to non-gurus.

And you don't HAVE TO compile anything, or even deal with ports at all; just like all the other ROMs, many nice people have already posted pre-compiled package repositories. That you easily CAN is just pure gravy.

have at it if you dont believe.
[a href=\"http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/]http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/[/url]

Also check in on iamasmith and mathmajickian, very competent and helpful folks if you want to get into it.
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=148

maybe even see this first:
http://www.openbsd.org/zaurus.html

14

Zaurus - pdaXrom / New Rom Gentoo On Zaurus

« on: May 22, 2007, 11:59:36 am »

Has anybody tried Gentoo on the Z? I don't think I have even heard of anybody even trying.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

 

Well if you type "gentoo zaurus" into google, I have a sawbuck that says you may have an answer to that question...not to mention the very theme of this thread...

I'd venture to guess that any gentoo port to the Z is going to be a bit on the bloody edge for a while yet, but it'll be a treat to watch developments unfold.

OpenBSD is as close as you can get today (Illuminati would rightly kick my ass for ever suggesting gentoo is "better than" OpenBSD on any platform).

I think the main thing you want, the thing that delivers long term stability and happiness, is a mature package management system (not to mention a comprehensive approach to the entire OS ala obsd). Gentoo portage is a child of BSD ports. It's all really good stuff, bears learning. Yes it hurts up front, you have to read a bit to "master" ports and/or portage, but in the long run, it will save you time and headache.

Best to remember that package management is utterly non-trivial. There is no way to give you the intrinsic flexibilities that abound (and save one from nightmares) AND make it punter-simple. Meeting Linux or BSDs half way is almost gauranteed to pay off (presuming you get a thrill from this stuff in the first place), but I'm preachin to the choir...y'all are leaning hard-core or you wouldn't be reading this...

"Not having to wait for someone to build a pkg for me...priceless."

15

Zaurus - pdaXrom / New Rom Gentoo On Zaurus

« on: May 21, 2007, 08:58:36 pm »

Got a link on where and how to get started?
(and can it be done on a 6000, or just the newer clamshells?)
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

[a href=\"http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/]http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/[/url]

The links I've posted already tell the entire story, but there is more if you like:

https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=148

Regrettably, I bear no good news for cXXX and below, as far as OpenBSD is concerned. I am not running Gentoo on my zaurus (just getin the news here!), but the switch freak in me has goggles on. Sounds like a Gentoo Z forum at OESF has officially become a necessity. Excellent!

OpenBSD isn't likely to be banished from my 3200 anytime soon though...