Author Topic: Student Of Japanese  (Read 6301 times)

ashikase

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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2004, 09:12:54 pm »
jamesannan:

I wrote knQuiz for myself to use as a kanji/compound quiz tool, though whether it is good or useful as a flashcard program, I don't know.

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jamesannan

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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2004, 12:07:59 am »
knQuiz is very nice. But not quite the same thing. Unless I'm missing something you can't set it up to show the kanji/word and have to guess meaning, can you?

James

theuserdylan

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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2004, 01:23:07 am »
Vice, I seem to be having the same problem as you.  I'm going to be living in Tokyo starting in September (at Waseda Daigaku).  I'm also looking at electronic dictionaries and the Zaurus.

It seems there are two main Japanese-English (J-E) and English-Japanese dictionaries (E-J).  The Genius and Kenkyusha
Dictionary Guide seem to be the most respected.  There is no electronic dictionary that contains a both Kenkyusha and Genius (J-E) and (E-J).  Although lots seem to carry both (E-J) and only one (E-J).  The Kenkyusha is supposed to have easier sample sentences and thus a better choice until you become more fluent in Japanese.

Anyway the new Sharp comes with the Genius (J-E) and (E-J) and the standard (J-J), but this is what you can find in a bottom of the line $200 Japanese Electronic Dictionary.  Couple that with the fact that the Sharp C-3000 is $750, really makes you wonder if the Kanji handwriting recognition is worth that extra 550 dollars.  

A good option might be to buy a 100 dollar older sharp (for Kanji handwriting recognition) and keep your Canon Wordtank (hopefully a G50).  You will have to carry around two devices, but you will save lots of money.  At first you might have to look up lots of Kanji but hopefully by the end of the year you will know Kanji well enough that you won't have to consult the Sharp often.  Think of it as added motivation.

You do have to consider that the Sharp has lots of functionality besides dictionaries.  I would say this is a big advantage if not for the rapid advancement of Japanese Keitai (cellphones).  I'm assuming you will own one because they are pretty much manditory for living in Japan nowadays.  The money spent on a subscription plan would be far better spent then on any PDA or dictionary.  It's impossible to have a social life (and thus learn Japanese) without one.  Anyways Japanese Keitai should be able to do all the PIM and contact functionality of a Zaurus.  They are now starting to be able to play movies and music as well.  The only thing you may lose out on is notetaking ability but the older Zaurus would suffice in that regard.

So I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy a new Zaurus.  In fact if the prices drop enough and I make good enough money teaching private English lessons in Japan I plan to buy one.  

An additonal note while Edict is a good dictionary, I do not view it as suffienct for a serious student of Japanese.  It is technically only a (J-E) dictionary and trying to translate the other way around is a nightmare.  Furthermore it does not have enough entries and has no example sentences and thus is not up to the level of a Genius or Kenkyusha.  But regardless it is more than adequete to look up Kanji with handwriting recognition.

halx

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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2004, 01:48:10 am »
Quote
An additonal note while Edict is a good dictionary, I do not view it as suffienct for a serious student of Japanese.  It is technically only a (J-E) dictionary and trying to translate the other way around is a nightmare.  Furthermore it does not have enough entries and has no example sentences and thus is not up to the level of a Genius or Kenkyusha.  But regardless it is more than adequete to look up Kanji with handwriting recognition.
Both Kenkyusha and Genius are available in EPWING format but cost additional money of course (daijiten is 16.000 Yen each) if you don't have them already/are already preloaded.

I agree with you about EDICT but it should be noted that example sentences are available (see link above).  For kanji you have KanjiDic which is quite good for a free dictionary.

ashikase

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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2004, 02:21:50 am »
Quote
knQuiz is very nice. But not quite the same thing. Unless I'm missing something you can't set it up to show the kanji/word and have to guess meaning, can you?

James
In the version I use, you can (^_^)

I really ought to release a new version... there is some more stuff that I would like to fix, but really haven't had the time or interest lately. Maybe I can get it wrapped up this weekend.

I just dread having to write documentation to explain the new changes (^_^;)

- ashikase
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SL-C3100 & SL-C760

ashikase

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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2004, 02:30:08 am »
theuserdylan:

Until keitai have full keyboards (or some other improved input method), they will not replace my Zaurus, even if just for PIM functionality. As much as I like my phone, I *despise* typing with it.

I also agree with you about EDICT... it's not bad, but I find many of the definitions lacking (same goes for KANJIDIC). I guess you get what you pay for, though... can't really complain since it's free.

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 02:30:35 am by ashikase »
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halx

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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2004, 02:39:32 am »
Quote
... it's not bad, but I find many of the definitions lacking (same goes for KANJIDIC)
Though it might be useful to just a few people reading here:  The German KanjiDic is much more comprehensive than the English and Spanish versions.

jamesannan

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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2004, 03:18:14 am »
ashikase,

If you are looking for ideas for additional functionality, I reckon that a flashcard program should have some sort of ranking/scoring system so that better known cards turn up less often as you learn them more reliably. Like in Kanji Gold or JFC (IMO the former method is better). It saves the user from having to spend all their time sorting out files of cards by hand...

Maybe knquiz already does something like this, I haven't really used it much at all.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

James

ashikase

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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2004, 04:48:03 am »
jamesannan:

Right now, I have no plans to add any additional functionality. That's the major reason I got tired of the project... I was spending most of my time working on the code, and hardly any time actually using it.

As I said, though, I hope to release a new version soon.

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan
SL-C3100 & SL-C760

sicklittlemonkey

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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2004, 09:20:38 pm »
Quote
knQuiz is very nice. But not quite the same thing. Unless I'm missing something you can't set it up to show the kanji/word and have to guess meaning, can you?
Hi.

I'm living in Tokyo and (when I have time) use an SL860 to help my study.

Anyway, the mioSuite software might be what you are looking for.
http://miosuite.sourceforge.net/index.html

Maybe the author is too busy studying (in Germany I think) to work on it now, but it works well when you figure it out.  You can have different sets of flashcards, though you will want to create your own as the ones that come with it are for the accompanying version of Tim's Japanese Tutorial.

It has built in dictionary lookup, and then with one click you can add that entry to the current flashcard list. It would be great to see more work done on this software.

Cheers,
Nick.

Vice

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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2004, 09:31:33 pm »
Thanks for the information.

I am still unsure of what to do.  It seems using the device only for studying Japanese, might not be worth the investment.  I will wait until I can see one of these before I take the plunge.

Now about these older model Zaurus’, would anyone know about to purchase one of these?

halx

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« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2004, 02:03:08 am »
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I am still unsure of what to do.  It seems using the device only for studying Japanese, might not be worth the investment.
Certainly, for this purpose only it seems quite an expensive device.  But did you consider buying second hand?  You will be in Tokyo as you said and you will certainly have time to visit Akihabara.  There you will certainly be able to make a good bargain (also with new devices).

kahm

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« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2004, 04:33:26 pm »
Quote
Thanks for the information.

I am still unsure of what to do.  It seems using the device only for studying Japanese, might not be worth the investment.  I will wait until I can see one of these before I take the plunge.

Now about these older model Zaurus’, would anyone know about to purchase one of these?
Sofmap stores usually have a small selection of older Japanese-only Zaurii, as well as used SLC-XXX.
Fujitsu U8240 "Stormtrooper" -  Zaurus Supplement
Libretto U100 | Sony Librie, Sony Reader
SL-C3100: Sharp 1.11JP (Kanji Dictionary/Translator) - LCD Top swap with C1000.
SL-C3000: pdaXii13 5.4.7, SL-C3000 5.4.9 - microdrive replaced with 8gb Sandisk
SL-C1000: PDAXRom Beta3 | SL-6000L: Sharp 1.12 | SL-5500: Cacko, 64-0 kernel | SL-5000D: OZ-Opie
Linksys WCF12; Sharp CE-AG06, CE-RH2, CE-170TS; iRiver USB OTG Host cable; Socket BT rev.E CF; Hitachi 6gb Microdrive