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> Installin for double/ treble booting
rodgos
post Feb 24 2019, 10:44 PM
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I've finally plucked up enough courage to have a go at installing Linux, etc on my Gemini. By choice I'm a Linux man, and all my hardware runs that, with odd devices co-existing with Windows 7, under sufferance. I run Mageia and since I'm not happy with KDE 5, I'm still om Mageia 6. I had intended to do the install from Linux, but there was a problem with the install software. The setup instruction only mentions Debian and Ubuntu, but Mageia repositories had the required files. However, although the files were there, and were verified as being there, the software continued to insist that they were not. So, Ive fallen back onto the Windows install method. No problems there, until I came to the partitioning options. I'd decided, for myself the adopt a rooted Android for first boot, Sailfish for the second and Debian for the third. However, my problem is that of the options offered by the do not include SailfishOS, and nothing in the instruction, that I've been able to find tells me how to put it in. Before I retired, I spent nine years in IT support, running Unix for a CAD project, among other things. During that time, it has always irked me that installation manuals always instruct one on the basis that it will always work, while in a practical sense about 80% of the time it does not. So,I'm asking, how does one do it?
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Adam Boardman
post Feb 25 2019, 02:17 AM
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We are at an awkward point for fresh installs that want triple boot. It used to work that you had main partitions for Android and Linux, with the Linux one having a primary OS, and then other OS's in a '.stowaway' folder. You then place your kernel images on the boot partitions and part of that includes a cmdline switch to pick (or not) a stowaway.

The new way is that from the flash tool you only get to pick Android (or not) and one non-Android OS (eg Sailfish) in a LVM setup, if you check other recent posts here about you'll see others are also confused by this, and occasionally I reply asking folks to install the recently released items (Sailfish and Kali) and then report back as to the LVM layout (eg with a sudo lvscan or similar). We plan to release a new Gemian/Debian in the due course and as long as we use the same PV name but different LV names we should be able to get back the tri (or more) boot options. So the idea is that you install for example Sailfish from the flash/partition tool, then shrink your LV's to give space, create new LV's for Gemian/Kali/etc, copy the root system to the new file system and pop on a different kernel on one of your boot[N] partitions etc.

So far I've only heard reports of the new Sailfish using LVM, no idea what Kali is using, but I'm hoping its the same. I've only one device and still working on various improvements on Gemian in various states of completeness so not particularly keen on spatting that just to figure out what other upstream community folk have decided to move towards. So take my suggestions with a pinch of salt, they are based upon second hand incomplete information, but you can help if you want. This is also a plea for other community folk to tell us what they are doing and work together.
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Kiriririn
post Feb 25 2019, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE(Adam Boardman @ Feb 25 2019, 10:17 AM) *
We are at an awkward point for fresh installs that want triple boot. It used to work that you had main partitions for Android and Linux, with the Linux one having a primary OS, and then other OS's in a '.stowaway' folder. You then place your kernel images on the boot partitions and part of that includes a cmdline switch to pick (or not) a stowaway.

The new way is that from the flash tool you only get to pick Android (or not) and one non-Android OS (eg Sailfish) in a LVM setup, if you check other recent posts here about you'll see others are also confused by this, and occasionally I reply asking folks to install the recently released items (Sailfish and Kali) and then report back as to the LVM layout (eg with a sudo lvscan or similar). We plan to release a new Gemian/Debian in the due course and as long as we use the same PV name but different LV names we should be able to get back the tri (or more) boot options. So the idea is that you install for example Sailfish from the flash/partition tool, then shrink your LV's to give space, create new LV's for Gemian/Kali/etc, copy the root system to the new file system and pop on a different kernel on one of your boot[N] partitions etc.

So far I've only heard reports of the new Sailfish using LVM, no idea what Kali is using, but I'm hoping its the same. I've only one device and still working on various improvements on Gemian in various states of completeness so not particularly keen on spatting that just to figure out what other upstream community folk have decided to move towards. So take my suggestions with a pinch of salt, they are based upon second hand incomplete information, but you can help if you want. This is also a plea for other community folk to tell us what they are doing and work together.


On one hand LVM sounds like a great solution to the problem

On the other, what on earth are Planet doing not sending out development devices to people working on Linux support? They can't expect us to come up with something of daily driver quality without having a device we can actually treat as a daily driver (necessitating a separate throwaway dev device that can be formatted without a second thought)
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rodgos
post Feb 25 2019, 07:24 PM
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Thank you all for the response, but I'm not sure that it will do me a lot of good. I'm not worried about the distinction of double.treble booting. Debian is not one of my favourite operating systems, so I'd be content with just the two options. A rooted Android and A N Other. My query was relative to the absence of an option to include SailfishOS, in the list of options in the Partitioning Guide and how to get it in. My experiences in Unix admin have left me with a horror of User control in the form of sudo. My users could do all sorts of mischief that at times beggared belief, and the thought of giving them power to interfere was the stuff of nightmares. Likewise an OS that did not have a root function, as Ubuntu and I gather, many others do not seem to have perplexes me. One of the things I liked of UNIX was the absolute separation of user and admin, and the similar separation of machine space and user space in the storage media. How they came to create Android with seemingly everything jumbled together as in Windows, I cannot understand
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gymbo
post Feb 25 2019, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE(rodgos @ Feb 26 2019, 04:24 AM) *
Thank you all for the response, but I'm not sure that it will do me a lot of good. I'm not worried about the distinction of double.treble booting. Debian is not one of my favourite operating systems, so I'd be content with just the two options. A rooted Android and A N Other. My query was relative to the absence of an option to include SailfishOS, in the list of options in the Partitioning Guide and how to get it in. My experiences in Unix admin have left me with a horror of User control in the form of sudo. My users could do all sorts of mischief that at times beggared belief, and the thought of giving them power to interfere was the stuff of nightmares. Likewise an OS that did not have a root function, as Ubuntu and I gather, many others do not seem to have perplexes me. One of the things I liked of UNIX was the absolute separation of user and admin, and the similar separation of machine space and user space in the storage media. How they came to create Android with seemingly everything jumbled together as in Windows, I cannot understand

Had a quick look at the partition tool now, and it seems the only way to get Sailfish now is to put it as first boot...
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rodgos
post Feb 27 2019, 05:04 PM
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Thanks, Gymbo. I've had the Gemini Partition Tool page up for about a week. On your note, I renewed the page and the option for Sailfish popped up. A bit of a coincidence that!. Does anyone know the pro's and con's in the choice of Sailfish, or sailfish3 Beta? The free version, or the paid up versions
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rodgos
post Mar 2 2019, 01:09 PM
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Well, thanks to Gymbo, I did, at last have instructions which had the right words on them. On to the next step, the required firmware. There was a button labelled download Sailfish OS firmware. The link, somewhat to my surprise to me to the Jolla Shop. Wells, fair enough, I opted for the paid-up product on the basis it came with updates. I'm very keen on updates, since they do seem so necessary.. So, I seem to have bought the SailfishX OS, and I seem to have received a receipt that said that I seem to have paid for it. But, and it's a big but. From then on there was not a page, paragraph, sentence or word about how you actually obtained said firmware. No matter where I searched, and I got into some weird page setups, nothing led me to the Holy Grail. So I'm stuck again.
On updates. In real life, I was a Production Engineering Design Draughtsman, and in those days people tended to get upset, particularly the ones who paid you, if you produced something that didn't work, or didn't work well, first time and every time, forever. Producing drawings which had to be re-drawn or amended was a very definite no-no. Then Britain decided that it didn't want anything to do with this Engineering thing, and I moved into IT support. We were into CAD by this time and I had an aptitude for it. There I discovered that producing something that didn't work and wasn't going to work was the norm. It was encouraged. After all, you got paid for doing it, then you got paid again for fixing it, then you got paid yet again because the fix didn't work either. It was an eye opener. Some of the toolmaking companies, when I was still churning out drawings, told me it was grand. They could tender low, in the sure knowledge that they could hike the price for the amendments. They rather liked my work, but regretted having to put a proper price in for it, because it didn't need amendments.
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Adam Boardman
post Mar 3 2019, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE(rodgos @ Mar 2 2019, 10:09 PM) *
So, I seem to have bought the SailfishX OS, and I seem to have received a receipt that said that I seem to have paid for it.
[snip]
So I'm stuck again.

You might have more luck for a response from SFOS folk in the SFOS forum. If your paying for commercial support you could try contacting Jolla themselves too. Sounds most odd that you managed to buy something without them telling you how to download it, there certainly looked to be folk talking about getting things to download in the other section of this forum. I think it was in response to the usual confusion of having to unpack everything into the same folder before flashing it.
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rodgos
post Mar 3 2019, 04:53 PM
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I did notice the firmware list, under the firmware download buttons, but discounted them. After all, why are they listed if the download system download buttons are there?
I am becoming somewhat disillusioned with the whole thing. In some respects, it's rather like a badly loaded musket, all flash and no bang. While I was employed in IT support, I praised Psion kit to high heaven, justifiably,and as a result got lumbered with procuring the kit for the office use. In that, I had the Devil's own job of sourcing the stuff commercially. Psion's lack of a commercial approach did them no favours at all, and Planet seem to be pursuing the same avenues.
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rodgos
post Mar 5 2019, 01:37 PM
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After a bit of a search (Google) I did come up with a Jolla download page (https://shop.jolla.com/downloads/) which seems to fit the bill. Only.... it indicates that the download(s) available are the same for both(Gemini PDA (x25, x27)). Namely:- 3.0.1.14/Sailfish_OS-Jolla-3.0.1.14-geminipda.
Surely that can't be right?
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