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> Pdaxrom Over Familiar
Locutus73
post May 11 2005, 02:30 AM
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Hi, I'm interested in studying the feasibility of installing pdaXrom on an iPAQ handeld (I have a 3970).
I tried several revision of Familiar linux on it and it seems to me that GPE have some similarities with pdaXrom: they both run X, matchbox.
I even managed to install pdaXrom packages over GPE: I installed http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/firefox_0.8_armv5tel.ipk uncompressing the archive on the second flash partition, adding symlinks and missing libraries (libiconv.so.2.1.0 and libstdc++.so.5.0.5)... unfortunately I didn't manage to install http://mirror1.pdaxrom.org/current/firefox_1.0_armv5tel.ipk the same way.
I think that we could study a way to combine both Familiar and pdaXrom in order to obtain an iPAQ pdaXrom release. Maybe using a chrooted enviroment or a pivoot root on a SD.
I'm not a linux guru, but I like to play with it... I'm a sort of user/poweruser smile.gif and I'm prone to testing-bricking-reflashing.

Any ideas/starting point?

P.S.: I'm a C3000 fan and I await for a C3000 pdaXrom release in order to think about buying one.

Many thanks in advance
Alessandro
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koen
post May 11 2005, 03:32 AM
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QUOTE(Locutus73 @ May 11 2005, 10:30 AM)
Hi, I'm interested in studying the feasibility of installing pdaXrom on an iPAQ handeld (I have a 3970).
I tried several revision of Familiar linux on it and it seems to me that GPE have some similarities with pdaXrom: they both run X, matchbox.
I even managed to install pdaXrom packages over GPE: I installed http://www.pdaxrom.org/feed/firefox_0.8_armv5tel.ipk uncompressing the archive on the second flash partition, adding symlinks and missing libraries (libiconv.so.2.1.0 and libstdc++.so.5.0.5)... unfortunately I didn't manage to install http://mirror1.pdaxrom.org/current/firefox_1.0_armv5tel.ipk the same way.
I think that we could study a way to combine both Familiar and pdaXrom in order to obtain an iPAQ pdaXrom release. Maybe using a chrooted enviroment or a pivoot root on a SD.
I'm not a linux guru, but I like to play with it... I'm a sort of user/poweruser  smile.gif  and I'm prone to testing-bricking-reflashing.


If all you need is firefox, do an 'ipkg install firefox' in familiar, since it is in the feeds. If that's not the case, can you tell me what's missing in the familiar/GPE images?
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Hrw
post May 11 2005, 03:46 AM
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pdaxrom... what advantage it has over OpenZaurus with GPE?
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gromituk
post May 11 2005, 04:02 AM
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QUOTE(Hrw @ May 11 2005, 03:46 AM)
pdaxrom... what advantage it has over OpenZaurus with GPE?
*


A very good question. I've always used pdaxrom but I've always been confused about this. Any comments would be very welcome. I know you're an OZ man!
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pgas
post May 11 2005, 04:02 AM
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@hrw: is this a genuine request for information or just an attempt to start a flame war?....

@locust: pdaxrom now (> 1.10RC5) uses soft-vfp and is compiled with xscale optimization, so this might be a problem.
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gromituk
post May 11 2005, 04:05 AM
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QUOTE(pgas @ May 11 2005, 04:02 AM)
is this a genuine request for information or just an attempt to start a flame war?....
*


It's a genuine request by me. (I hope and assume you were responding to the previous post! - EDIT - I see that you were!) All I know is that the OZ people seem unhappy that the pdaxrom people aren't using their build system because it's supposed to be easier or faster or something. But I'd like to know what the difference is from a user's perspective.

I must admit I find using the Z as a PDA with pdaxrom can be a little awkward at times, compared with, say, the simplicity of a Palm device. Does GPE give you the best of both worlds?
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gromituk
post May 11 2005, 04:11 AM
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Eeek - I see all the gurus are reading this thread suddenly!

One thing the GPE people might like to check: does ka/pi (I've tried 1.9.4 and 2.0.1) sit there consuming CPU (14% on my 860) in GPE like it does in pdaxrom?

(Apologies to locutus - thread hijacking is rude.)
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Locutus73
post May 11 2005, 04:13 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ May 11 2005, 01:32 PM)
If all you need is firefox, do an 'ipkg install firefox' in familiar, since it is in the feeds.
*

I tried to install http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0...._1.0-r0_arm.ipk but it doesn't seem to work. Firefox starts, but all I get are transparent/invisible windows, with visible shadowed borders. If I randomly click I get visible menus... that's all.

QUOTE(koen @ May 11 2005, 01:32 PM)
If that's not the case, can you tell me what's missing in the familiar/GPE images?
*

Firefox is a major issue to me.
I'd like also to see things like gimp, rox, ethereal, airsnort, sunbird.
Does http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.....7.3-r1_arm.ipk works (I didn't give it a try)?

More in general I'd like to see a pdaXrom implementation just for the sake of trying it, having fun, more choice... biggrin.gif
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pgas
post May 11 2005, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE
It's a genuine request by me.  (I hope and assume you were responding to the previous post!)

yes i edited my post.

QUOTE
All I know is that the OZ people seem unhappy that the pdaxrom people aren't using their build system because it's supposed to be easier or faster or something.  But I'd like to know what the difference is from a user's perspective.


Well Oz people have high hopes for their build system to become a generic embedded build tool for all kind of devices. Some would like that everybody uses their system, which is not a bad idea, since a change for one project will be included in an other project.

Sashz on the other hand cook up is own build system and like it...and it works rather well so ...

QUOTE
I must admit I find using the Z as a PDA with pdaxrom can be a little awkward at times, compared with, say, the simplicity of a Palm device.  Does GPE give you the best of both worlds?


or the worst of the both world? (just kidding)
Well you are right. pdaxrom is basically mini-linux laptop. (which is precisely what I want wink.gif)
gpe does try to bring the two together.


As for why I use pdaxrom:

1- Because it's there for some time now (well before OZ-gpe) so I used it for some time now and know it and like it.

2- I believe that up to now, small details are working better on pdaxrom. (but it's very subjective as try oz-gpe very quickly)

3- I think the cross and native sdk are simpler to install and to use. (just untar in the first case, just mount an image in the second case)

but feel free to try.
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Hrw
post May 11 2005, 04:35 AM
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QUOTE(pgas @ May 11 2005, 02:02 PM)
@hrw: is this a genuine request for information or just an attempt to start a flame war?....


Plain request - I have C760 which run my own build of OZ with OPIE and think about trying GPE (last time I tried GPE on collie).

And btw SDK - we work on memory usage of bitbake - maybe sooner or later it will drop below 40M :)
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danr
post May 11 2005, 08:01 AM
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pdaXrom advantages for me:

1) runs both gtk and qt apps
2) can do native compilation without the need for a workstation connected to the Internet

disadvantages:

1) still uses kernel 2.4, which means my CF card ejects on suspend
2) any contributed binaries are point solutions (can we contribute patches?)

If OZ could do 1) and 2) above then I'd consider swapping to OZ.

Regards,

Dan
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adf
post May 11 2005, 10:59 AM
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on a related note:
is there any particular reason that gpe couldn't do the qt (in this case maybe opie) app thing the same way pdaX apparently does? It seems to me that it really should be pretty similar in that respect-- though I doubt my skill is sufficient to prove it.

one significant difference between pdaX and gpe is internal partitioning. the 26(?)? meg /home thing kinda drives me nuts. I have expansion slots and flash cards for storing any data beyond system setting stuff . I should point out though that the complete absence of pdaX for my species of Z is something of a consideration for me when flashing tongue.gif

Not to start a flame war (especially in my case where there is only one X rom on my Z). just pointing out that there are things that can be done to gpe that have already been done to pdaX that might make gpe better
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henrysviper
post May 11 2005, 11:52 AM
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IMHO the build systems of both have the same level of ease of use, but bitbake/OE feels more professional.

Pdaxrom advantages (for my needs):
- It really feels like a true laptop. Familiar (as in the word, not the distro) applications are there (firefox, thunderbird, graphic links browser, mplayer, xmms, kismet etc.) and work as expected, and it seems that you could run anything you run on your laptop.
- The distro is more solid with more preferences to be set (e.g., usb-storage mode, network profiles, backlight adjustment). GPE is not so mature.
- Better handling of different languages (e.g., greek chars appear in every app without me having to do anything - I am still trying on GPE)

OZ-GPE advantages:
- Much more open community. Well this has many benefits for users (and powerusers): faster upgrades (hrw has everything in the feed the moment it is asked) and bug fixes, anyone can contribute easily, shows more promise etc.
- Interface which successfully (more or less) combines PDA with laptop.

Regards,
Greg
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Hrw
post May 11 2005, 11:52 AM
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@adf
You have right - GPE can be more similar to pdaxrom but it is not probably because most of GPE users comes from QVGA devices so some stuff was never used - like gimp, abiword for example. I dont know does someone from OE team used pdaxrom before so it is hard to notice what is lacking or what can be done better in OZ/GPE.

I think that most of OZ users use OPIE because before 3.5.1 there was no other choice. Now we have GPE as a choice and we use it. And it has competition from pdaxrom which many people use. And it is good - some of us (OE team) work on adding more stuff for GPE/X11 usage.
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Locutus73
post May 12 2005, 03:02 AM
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QUOTE(Locutus73 @ May 11 2005, 02:13 PM)
I tried to install http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0...._1.0-r0_arm.ipk but it doesn't seem to work. Firefox starts, but all I get are transparent/invisible windows, with visible shadowed borders. If I randomly click I get visible menus... that's all.

[Errata corrige & OT]
I reinstalled this ipk and toggled off visual effects from GPE look&feel control panel and now Firefox is finally visible! smile.gif
[/Errata corrige & OT]

QUOTE(Locutus73 @ May 11 2005, 02:13 PM)
More in general I'd like to see a pdaXrom implementation just for the sake of trying it, having fun, more choice...  biggrin.gif
*

I repeat myself: I think an iPAQ pdaXrom would give us more choice, like zaurus' owners have.

QUOTE(pgas @ May 11 2005, 02:02 PM)
@locust: pdaxrom now (> 1.10RC5) uses soft-vfp and is compiled with xscale optimization, so this might be a problem.

Do you think that these are issues that cannot be overcome?
Actually I managed to manually installing pdaXrom ipks over Familiar (actually I did the same over PocketWorkstation) adding missing libraries (libiconv.so.2.1.0 and libstdc++.so.5.0.5).
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