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> microSDXC cards and forced ExFAT to FAT32
Grench
post May 22 2018, 09:23 AM
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So, if you put a 64GB or larger 'factory formatted' card into your Gemini, it forces you to format the card prior to recognizing it.

The Gemini apparently does not support ExFAT. Why not? How do we get it included so that it can behave like any other Android phone from the last 5+ years with regards to SDXC media?

Of note - Gemini has claimed support of microSDXC media to 256GB. The SD association specification for SDXC media over 32GB includes ExFAT. Without that, the product is, 'out of spec'.

Yes, I know, Microsoft proprietary format adopted as an industry specification without consulting the masses, EXT4 would have been better, etc... None of that is relevant though.

Your modern stand-alone camera will require EXFAT on all cards > 32GB.

This has far more to do with device interactions than the Gemini's internal microSDXC usage.

Put that card in a USB reader, connect it to the Gemini, and it fails to recognize it and demands that your camera card be formatted. Copying files off of USB mounted SDXC or microSDXC media to the Gemini is a no-go without an Android ExFAT driver.
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gidds
post May 22 2018, 12:33 PM
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FWIW, my Gemini-formatted 256GB SD card worked fine with my Mac.

(Which is more than can be said for the Gemini itself…)
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Grench
post May 22 2018, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE(gidds @ May 22 2018, 03:33 PM) *
FWIW, my Gemini-formatted 256GB SD card worked fine with my Mac.

(Which is more than can be said for the Gemini itself…)


Yes, because the Mac also reads FAT32.

However:

If you took a new 256GB SDXC card out of the package, wrote data to it on the Mac (without re-formatting the card), you would not be able to see that data in the Gemini, which would demand re-formatting it.

If you place that 256GB card into most modern digital cameras, they will demand re-formatting it back to ExFAT, which will no longer work in the Gemini.

The 'official' format for SDXC media is ExFAT.

My Nook HD 9" tablet, Galaxy Note 3 phone, Pandora console, Pentax Optio W camera are all 4+ years old. They can all read ExFAT. The fact that the Gemini will not use ExFAT, but claims SDXC compatibility, makes it's inability to read ExFAT a bug.

I'm actually not a big fan of ExFAT. But, I'm even less a fan of FAT32.
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Ifanafi
post May 23 2018, 05:49 AM
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I agree with your concerns about FAT32.

Nevertheless, there are many free, SD card re-formatting programs online that can do the job so the card works in your Gemini.

Recently, I used such an app on the micro-card (200gb) holding 8K music / song files. The FAT32 formatted card works as well in my Samsung GS5 as it did with ExFAT.

BTW, that card is used exclusively for music files. I expect the same when it's in my Gemini.

Cheers.


QUOTE(Grench @ May 22 2018, 05:05 PM) *
QUOTE(gidds @ May 22 2018, 03:33 PM) *
FWIW, my Gemini-formatted 256GB SD card worked fine with my Mac.

(Which is more than can be said for the Gemini itself…)


Yes, because the Mac also reads FAT32.

However:

If you took a new 256GB SDXC card out of the package, wrote data to it on the Mac (without re-formatting the card), you would not be able to see that data in the Gemini, which would demand re-formatting it.

If you place that 256GB card into most modern digital cameras, they will demand re-formatting it back to ExFAT, which will no longer work in the Gemini.

The 'official' format for SDXC media is ExFAT.

My Nook HD 9" tablet, Galaxy Note 3 phone, Pandora console, Pentax Optio W camera are all 4+ years old. They can all read ExFAT. The fact that the Gemini will not use ExFAT, but claims SDXC compatibility, makes it's inability to read ExFAT a bug.

I'm actually not a big fan of ExFAT. But, I'm even less a fan of FAT32.

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depscribe
post May 23 2018, 06:39 AM
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fwiw, exfat volumes mount uneventfully on the linux side. (and didn't they say the hub would contain an SD slot? it doesn't, so an SD reader needs to be plugged into the hub and the card slotted in to the reader, unless you have a dedicated USB-C reader.) of course, the internal card mounts just fine, either in exfat or ext4. and, i suppose, fat32.
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Grench
post May 23 2018, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE(depscribe @ May 23 2018, 09:39 AM) *
fwiw, exfat volumes mount uneventfully on the linux side. (and didn't they say the hub would contain an SD slot? it doesn't, so an SD reader needs to be plugged into the hub and the card slotted in to the reader, unless you have a dedicated USB-C reader.) of course, the internal card mounts just fine, either in exfat or ext4. and, i suppose, fat32.


I have done that. SDXC ExFAT card in a USB type A reader plugged into the Planet Computers hub. Gemini demands reformatting the card.
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depscribe
post May 23 2018, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE(Grench @ May 23 2018, 07:14 AM) *
QUOTE(depscribe @ May 23 2018, 09:39 AM) *
fwiw, exfat volumes mount uneventfully on the linux side. (and didn't they say the hub would contain an SD slot? it doesn't, so an SD reader needs to be plugged into the hub and the card slotted in to the reader, unless you have a dedicated USB-C reader.) of course, the internal card mounts just fine, either in exfat or ext4. and, i suppose, fat32.


I have done that. SDXC ExFAT card in a USB type A reader plugged into the Planet Computers hub. Gemini demands reformatting the card.

Right -- under Android. Works fine under Linux on Gemini. So it's an Android thing -- might be fixable on a rooted device? (I have no idea where or how -- I'm still working on figuring out what I can remove from the Android install to be rid of the spyware that it sometimes seems as if Android is made of entirely.)
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Grench
post May 23 2018, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE(depscribe @ May 23 2018, 01:53 PM) *
QUOTE(Grench @ May 23 2018, 07:14 AM) *
QUOTE(depscribe @ May 23 2018, 09:39 AM) *
fwiw, exfat volumes mount uneventfully on the linux side. (and didn't they say the hub would contain an SD slot? it doesn't, so an SD reader needs to be plugged into the hub and the card slotted in to the reader, unless you have a dedicated USB-C reader.) of course, the internal card mounts just fine, either in exfat or ext4. and, i suppose, fat32.


I have done that. SDXC ExFAT card in a USB type A reader plugged into the Planet Computers hub. Gemini demands reformatting the card.

Right -- under Android. Works fine under Linux on Gemini. So it's an Android thing -- might be fixable on a rooted device? (I have no idea where or how -- I'm still working on figuring out what I can remove from the Android install to be rid of the spyware that it sometimes seems as if Android is made of entirely.)


Unfortunately for me I need to be able to run a Blackberry on Android email application for work, so no Debian for me (at least not as a primary OS).

I'm truly looking forward to trying out Sailfish. Linux OS with the ability to run Android apps? Sounds ideal. In the meantime, though, for most of us this device needs to run Android well.

I wonder why they left ExFAT out of the Gemini firmware. Does Microsoft charge a per device license for that?

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depscribe
post May 23 2018, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE(Grench @ May 23 2018, 11:10 AM) *
I wonder why they left ExFAT out of the Gemini firmware. Does Microsoft charge a per device license for that?


I doubt it -- support for it came in my Debian Stretch desktop distribution.
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Grench
post May 24 2018, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(depscribe @ May 23 2018, 03:42 PM) *
QUOTE(Grench @ May 23 2018, 11:10 AM) *
I wonder why they left ExFAT out of the Gemini firmware. Does Microsoft charge a per device license for that?


I doubt it -- support for it came in my Debian Stretch desktop distribution.


Don't doubt greed.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technol...at-file-system/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT

The official Microsoft sanctioned Android Linux drivers...
https://www.networkworld.com/article/223091...nt-threats.html

Or alternate Linux driver...
https://readwrite.com/2013/01/22/open-sourc...-exfat-patents/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT

A possible solution to the ExFAT on USB doesn't work on Gemini issue:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?...ro&hl=en_US

Apparently the Pixel XL had a similar issue, even if only limited to the USB C use:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-xl/h...-exfat-t3485070

From what I can tell, if the Gemini were a camera or similar consumer device using ExFAT, the licensing fee would be something in the range of $300,000 per device model. Apparently with phones it gets based on total number produced - likely to Microsoft's favor. So, the $300,000 might be a baseline.

Assuming they make 6000 Gemini units, $300,000 comes to roughly $75 per device to license ExFAT. Even if it is only a fraction of that, I think I understand why the Gemini doesn't use SDXC cards in standard ExFAT mode. So, the device likely cannot ship with ExFAT.

As to the Linux distribution - that doesn't ship on the device and becomes a more grey area. Hypothetically anyone embedding the Linux ExFAT driver into a shipping product could owe license costs to both Microsoft and the company that made the Linux version.

Google used to have a posted version of the Linux driver:
https://code.google.com/p/exfat/

But, if you follow that, it now goes to github.
https://github.com/relan/exfat

So, I understand why Planet Computers would have left ExFAT out of the device. License hell.
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jornada720
post May 29 2018, 09:59 AM
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Not that it matters, but you can mount ext4 cards within the Gemini's Android environment, if you have a rooted device.

My guess is that the default AOSP installation omits ExFAT and that is what Planet worked from. Likely there was no decision at all about the format.
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tuk0z
post Jul 6 2018, 12:30 PM
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@jornada720 default AOSP installation omitting ExFAT makes sense yes.
As for accessing an Ext4 partition whether on sdcard or any device, did you succeed eventually? Nothing I tried made it happens. Only have rw access to a FAT partition on my sdcard from a *couple* apps.As for the Ext4 partition I can barely see it from root in termux :/ Makes sharing any data reliably with another OS a pain in the *ss !
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