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OESF Portables Forum _ Gemini PDA - General Discussion _ Big announcement on 5th November

Posted by: Jeffers Oct 30 2018, 01:15 AM

QUOTE
THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING THE GEMINI PDA.

THANK YOU FOR BELIEVING IN THE PLANET COMPUTERS TEAM.

THANK YOU FOR HELPING MAKE OUR VISION A REALITY.

On behalf of the team at Planet Computers we want to take this opportunity to say thank you. Without you, the Gemini community, we could not have come as far as we have in the last 18 months.

It has been an amazing journey and one we are so glad you joined us on. We want you to know just how grateful we are for all your support - whether backing us on Indiegogo, buying a Gemini from our website or engaging with us on social media and beyond.

That’s why we want you to be the first to know that we will be making a BIG announcement on 5th November regarding the next chapter in the Planet Computers journey.

So look out for our social media posts and check our website on the day because we don’t think you’ll want to miss this.

LET'S JUST SAY THE NEWS IS 'OUT OF THIS WORLD'...


So, what do you think is this big news? (Have they, perhaps, shipped my connectivity pack...)

Posted by: smapmap Oct 30 2018, 01:42 AM

QUOTE(Jeffers @ Oct 30 2018, 10:15 AM) *
So, what do you think is this big news? (Have they, perhaps, shipped my connectivity pack...)


Sounds like a new product launch??

Posted by: FredL Oct 30 2018, 01:54 AM


Actually, I'm quite curious to know what this is... A new product would be great - maybe a "netbook" style device? "next chapter" could indicate that Planet have been bought (by Microsoft?)...

Posted by: smapmap Oct 30 2018, 01:59 AM

Yeah - next chapter sounds significant. Thought change was in the air when Robin left.
Maybe they are renaming themselves Psion Computers?? smile.gif

Posted by: gidds Oct 30 2018, 03:39 AM

QUOTE(FredL @ Oct 30 2018, 10:54 AM) *
A new product would be great - maybe a "netbook" style device? "next chapter" could indicate that Planet have been bought (by Microsoft?)...

Mmm.  When I saw the announcement, I hoped for a new product launch, but I feared a buy-out…

The wording of the announcement makes me suspect the latter sad.gif

Posted by: Dixit Oct 30 2018, 03:55 AM

QUOTE(gidds @ Oct 30 2018, 01:39 PM) *
QUOTE(FredL @ Oct 30 2018, 10:54 AM) *
A new product would be great - maybe a "netbook" style device? "next chapter" could indicate that Planet have been bought (by Microsoft?)...

Mmm.  When I saw the announcement, I hoped for a new product launch, but I feared a buy-out…

The wording of the announcement makes me suspect the latter sad.gif


Jups.

My first reaction was "Owww.... sh?t ! "

But hey... who knows ? Perhaps it is indeed a positive announcement. After all... Planet hasn't been too great with marketing anyway.
So a message that scares the sh?t out of their loyal customers is indeed very vintage Planet.

Posted by: andrewl Oct 30 2018, 05:43 AM

I'm going to speculate a buyout of the product by a Chinese company who currently produce the phone innards. They may not get the appeal of the PSionesque keyboard and replace it with something cheaper and all hope will be lost.
A startup like Planet doesn't have the necessary mass to survive on its won.

Posted by: andrewl Oct 30 2018, 06:13 AM

QUOTE(Jeffers @ Oct 30 2018, 01:15 AM) *
So, what do you think is this big news? (Have they, perhaps, shipped my connectivity pack...)


I had a long wait for a connectivity pack, in the end I emailed them to remind them and received the items within a week.


Posted by: ehasbrouck Oct 30 2018, 06:41 AM

QUOTE(Jeffers @ Oct 30 2018, 02:15 AM) *
(Have they, perhaps, shipped my connectivity pack...)


I ordered a connectivity pack in May (Indiegogo perk #8025). I just received 2 of 3 items: the HDMI dongle and the UCB-C hub. When I e-mailed to ask about the missing 3rd item, the mains adapter, I was told that the mains adapter with US plug is currently out of stock. I had actually requested a mains adapter with EU plug (to use when travelling), and that is supposedly in stock and now being shipped.

Posted by: bzd Oct 30 2018, 07:52 AM

Hadn't thought about a buyout... would probably be a shame, but you never know, the new owners might want to fund a new product.

My thought is it will be an announcement about Sailfish 3 or Android Oreo as they trailered previously (in fact they said there'd be an announcement about Sailfish soon in the last update).

Posted by: hk135 Oct 30 2018, 08:31 AM

Maybe fully supported by the upstream linux kernel!

aaaaaahahahaha

Posted by: Mr Rimmer Oct 30 2018, 09:37 AM

Non-mediatek motherbaord swappable for the current one? ;-)

Posted by: Pete G. Oct 30 2018, 10:25 AM

Well, we can probably expect fireworks....!

(Somebody had to say it. tongue.gif )

Posted by: Dixit Oct 30 2018, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(ehasbrouck @ Oct 30 2018, 04:41 PM) *
QUOTE(Jeffers @ Oct 30 2018, 02:15 AM) *
(Have they, perhaps, shipped my connectivity pack...)


I ordered a connectivity pack in May (Indiegogo perk #8025). I just received 2 of 3 items: the HDMI dongle and the UCB-C hub. When I e-mailed to ask about the missing 3rd item, the mains adapter, I was told that the mains adapter with US plug is currently out of stock. I had actually requested a mains adapter with EU plug (to use when travelling), and that is supposedly in stock and now being shipped.


Ha !
I ordered a US plug (for my travels) and I got an EU one.

Good that I did not have any travel plans to the US for the next upcoming months.

Posted by: andrewl Oct 30 2018, 11:22 AM

QUOTE(bzd @ Oct 30 2018, 07:52 AM) *
Hadn't thought about a buyout... would probably be a shame, but you never know, the new owners might want to fund a new product.

My thought is it will be an announcement about Sailfish 3 or Android Oreo as they trailered previously (in fact they said there'd be an announcement about Sailfish soon in the last update).


If it is Sailfish 3 then I will be as happy as Larry (not Ellison).

Posted by: Ifanafi Oct 30 2018, 11:59 AM

Ummm....

Neither "next chapter" nor the almost giddy "... out of this world!" are Team Planet speak. They are, after all, a mostly BRITISH (typically reserved) group IMHO.

That said, the anticipated and presently expected Sailfish (and then OREO) upgrades DO NOT frankly rise to the inherent, implicit inferences one can read into those rather hyperbolic word choices.

Nevertheless, both suggest something hugely unexpected such as EITHER the sale of Planet (aka a buyout of its stakeholders) OR a significant cash-infusion partnership / investor / investment that will take Planet's Gemini to stunning / sky-high / stratospheric or 'out of this world' new heights (and all that suggests).

Whatever it is all about, I surely hope the announcement is only great news for we Gemini test-pilot astronauts.

Ifanafi

P.S. One wonder's why Robin left the company; did he disagree with the team's decision and/or was he out voted by other stakeholders?

By the way, "...out of this world!" was said by actor Bryan Cranston playing NASA astronaut Gus Grissom during "The Hollywood Television Showcase" TV show scenes in the 1996 hit movie "That Thing You Do!"

Posted by: vader Oct 30 2018, 03:51 PM

QUOTE(andrewl @ Oct 31 2018, 05:22 AM) *
If it is Sailfish 3 then I will be as happy as Larry (not Ellison).


+1 there! I would even accept Curly, or Mo.

Posted by: zsalab2 Oct 30 2018, 11:18 PM

Or simply they will start a new indiegogo campaign...

Posted by: Artemys Oct 31 2018, 12:40 AM

...maybe they bought the failed Youyota campaign and plan to finish it biggrin.gif

Posted by: andrewl Oct 31 2018, 05:46 AM

QUOTE(Ifanafi @ Oct 30 2018, 11:59 AM) *
Ummm....

Neither "next chapter" nor the almost giddy "... out of this world!" are Team Planet speak. They are, after all, a mostly BRITISH (typically reserved) group IMHO.


Stereotyping aside, I don't think Janko, Davide or Erkan are native British. They are typically London which is a city of the world and as international as you can get.

Posted by: depscribe Oct 31 2018, 08:15 AM

Though it scarcely justifies such language (nothing short of them giving each backer a million dollars would do that), Sailfish 3 has gotten its first release today, and in the release notes https://together.jolla.com/question/191509/release-notes-300-lemmenjoki/ there is mention of "improved support for MediaTek chipsets." Sailfish users signed up for their early release group are receiving SFOS 3 beginning today, with general availability coming next week. It would be nice if Planet were to pick up the tab for the full-boat SFOS 3, including aliendalvik, for all of us, but I very much doubt that that'll happen. Though it would help justify the marketing language.

Though my nickel is on the announcement of Gemini II or whatever they call it. The way GPD announced the Pocket II (which I don't like at all as well as I do the Pocket -- the pointing device is AFU).

Posted by: GregG Nov 1 2018, 02:38 AM

Is it the release of the bootloader?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP9Ome_V0Ek

Out of work atm. This is what happens when your trawling youtube day in, day out. Had a double take when they mentioned newish version of Ubuntu ohmy.gif. Im like wahhht!

Posted by: gymbo Nov 1 2018, 08:36 AM


But I thought we were actually discussing the "Big announcement on 5th November, and not language...

Staying mostly on topic, and with reference to the wording "OUT OF THIS WORLD", it could be that someone in Planet Computers has had an encounter with some alien race, and are going to share some of their technology with us... (Or it could be some part manufactured/developed in space??!)

(No, I don't really think that, but it would justify the wording laugh.gif wink.gif )

Posted by: Tom D Nov 1 2018, 11:04 AM

I predict the next version will be Turing complete...

Posted by: Dixit Nov 1 2018, 11:21 AM

It would indeed be rather Psion-esque to already trigger a take-over or something else managerese which will lead to their own entrepreneurial suicide.

Original Psion went down the drain in that way.
The only survivor - Symbian - is now dead as well.

Posted by: hk135 Nov 2 2018, 03:33 AM

Maybe the Linux distros they demoed pre-release are actually fully functioning an available on the device now

aaaaaaahahahahaha

Posted by: smapmap Nov 2 2018, 08:33 AM

A bit of an emphasis on 'out of this world & given the company is called Planet I think we might be looking at their next PDA - the Planet Saturn.

Posted by: depscribe Nov 2 2018, 02:33 PM

QUOTE(smapmap @ Nov 2 2018, 08:33 AM) *
A bit of an emphasis on 'out of this world & given the company is called Planet I think we might be looking at their next PDA - the Planet Saturn.

Yes. That they've managed to get the Saturn homescreen realtime background application running, as here!


Posted by: gemini_user_j Nov 4 2018, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(depscribe @ Nov 2 2018, 02:33 PM) *
QUOTE(smapmap @ Nov 2 2018, 08:33 AM) *
A bit of an emphasis on 'out of this world & given the company is called Planet I think we might be looking at their next PDA - the Planet Saturn.

Yes. That they've managed to get the Saturn homescreen realtime background application running, as here!


Saturn would be cool,

here is some more inspiration for guessing which planets may give names to new devices:



But you would probably have to know something about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_(astrology)#Rulerships_of_signs to make any qualified guessing wink.gif

Posted by: 1668880 Nov 4 2018, 10:21 AM

One day left till we know for sure. Also I just updated my Gemini with multi boot and have been stuck on a boot loop. oh the fun.

Posted by: gymbo Nov 4 2018, 06:06 PM

It probably has something to do with this
http://igg.me/at/gogocosmo
link that appeared on their homepage now (haven't checked it lately, so it might have been there a while???)?

It redirects to:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator

Which again gives this "error" currently:

QUOTE
Where did it go?

The page you are looking for is currently in "DRAFT" mode and hidden from the public. Please contact the campaign owner if you feel this is in error!


So probably "just" a new version???

Posted by: andrewl Nov 4 2018, 09:21 PM

QUOTE(gymbo @ Nov 4 2018, 06:06 PM) *
It probably has something to do with this
http://igg.me/at/gogocosmo
link that appeared on their homepage now (haven't checked it lately, so it might have been there a while???)?

It redirects to:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator

Which again gives this "error" currently:
QUOTE
Where did it go?

The page you are looking for is currently in "DRAFT" mode and hidden from the public. Please contact the campaign owner if you feel this is in error!


So probably "just" a new version???


A device called a Cosmo then... maybe. Going to be an interesting day.

Posted by: bibille Nov 5 2018, 12:23 AM

QUOTE(andrewl @ Nov 5 2018, 07:21 AM) *
A device called a Cosmo then... maybe. Going to be an interesting day.


It's open....
With a 7-inch screen I would have bought it right away...

Posted by: a1astair Nov 5 2018, 12:53 AM

Not impressed by how the Cosmo looks.....

24MP camera and no flash???

Happy with my Gemini thank you very much!

Posted by: FredL Nov 5 2018, 01:07 AM

QUOTE(gymbo @ Nov 4 2018, 06:06 PM) *
It probably has something to do with this
http://igg.me/at/gogocosmo
link that appeared on their homepage now (haven't checked it lately, so it might have been there a while???)?


I'm pleased that this is a new product, and not a buyout. It looks good, and I wish Planet every success with this. I wonder if they will retire the Gemini, or keep both products for sale? If they implemented the backlit keyboard with the next gen Gemini, then I'll buy one straight away!

Posted by: andrewl Nov 5 2018, 01:09 AM

Hmmm,

Nothing on there that would make much of an improvement over Gemini for my use. Because my Gemini has a dedicated role and is not my main phone, Cosmo will be more appealing to people who want to use it as their main phone.
A better screen that used all of the the clamshell lid area might have sold me. However...

Some of the folk who delivered the Gemini are no longer at Planet. One person who failed to deliver Vega + is.
$200K is not enough, though I am sure they will raise far more anyway.
May 2019, no chance.
Still Android focused. I hope a new device doesn't mean neglected Gemini. Unfortunately I think my hope will be in vain.
Never go early bird and get the first off the production line....

So probably not for me. But on the positive side:

Good to see Planet still in the business
The device seems to be addressing a lot of things that people did ask for.
Android 9 Pie will please a lot of people.
Possibility P70 will support accelerated Debian.



Posted by: salvomic Nov 5 2018, 01:20 AM

Cosmo, for me, for now it can wait...
I hope they don't neglect Gemini and its software development.

Salvo

Posted by: Artemys Nov 5 2018, 01:25 AM

Would it be pink, could it be advertised in the Cosmopolitan for geek girls wink.gif
Anyway it would be nice to see some pics about it, how it looks like in the dark.

Posted by: jornada720 Nov 5 2018, 01:31 AM

Why put a camera on it but no flash?

Why the ugly triple colors on the back?

Why all the buttons to ruin the clean lines?

No thanks.

Posted by: hk135 Nov 5 2018, 01:32 AM

Cosmo using the Mediatek P70 with "Linux Support"

Is linux really supported or will it be the same half assed linux userland with android kernel that can't be updated?

Given the state of Linux on the Gemini I'm not hopeful.

Posted by: andrewl Nov 5 2018, 01:33 AM

Looks like the $200K target is going to be achieved easily today, perhaps by noon GMT.

I think crowdfunders deliberately undersell the funding goal to make it feel more achievable. They must be expecting over $1 million because $200K doesn't go very far in manufacturing.

Posted by: paoloe Nov 5 2018, 01:34 AM

Gemini all the way for me as well.

The backlit keyboard is a nice touch, but as far as I'm concerned it could never replace my main phone (and to perfectly honest I can't figure myself walking around with a thing that size stuck to my ear laugh.gif ohmy.gif); my Gemini does well everything I need it to do, and I too just hope this new product won't put the Gemini out of business.....

BTW, do they really think someone still believe it when they read "estimated delivery date"? laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: jornada720 Nov 5 2018, 01:39 AM

QUOTE(paoloe @ Nov 5 2018, 05:34 AM) *
Gemini all the way for me as well.

The backlit keyboard is a nice touch, but as far as I'm concerned it could never replace my main phone (and to perfectly honest I can't figure myself walking around with a thing that size stuck to my ear laugh.gif ohmy.gif); my Gemini does well everything I need it to do, and I too just hope this new product won't put the Gemini out of business.....


I hope they at least made the keys quieter and easier to press.

That and the half finished Linux support are my biggest gripes. No one likes LXQt compared to GNOME or KDE. Xfce would be bare minimum.

Posted by: Jeffers Nov 5 2018, 01:43 AM

At that price, I can't say it's very enticing. I'd like to have a proper camera on my Gemini, but not enough to fork out that much.

Posted by: smapmap Nov 5 2018, 01:44 AM

QUOTE(a1astair @ Nov 5 2018, 09:53 AM) *
Not impressed by how the Cosmo looks.....

24MP camera and no flash???

Happy with my Gemini thank you very much!


There is a flash - according to the promotional video

Posted by: Gadgetman! Nov 5 2018, 03:17 AM

I wouldn't mind a faster CPU and more storage, but...

Backlight keyboard, external 2" LCD and all that malarkey is just fluff.

I just want a machine that first in my pocket, has a good keyobard and can handle my desktop files.

As for the name...

I'm not certain what that the theme is supposed to be here?

The Gemini was the second series of manned programs. But Saturn wasn't a Program. It was the rocket.
The rocket used in the Gemini program was the Titan II, sometimes also called the Gemini-Titan.
And if they picked Gemini as the name of their first because it was the second program, and 'Psion was first', then they really should stick to the Gemini name until they at least have a platform change.




Posted by: gidds Nov 5 2018, 05:29 AM

QUOTE(Gadgetman! @ Nov 5 2018, 12:17 PM) *
if they picked Gemini as the name of their first because it was the second program

I've never heard that.  I assumed it was on the theme of ‘twins’ (like the constellation): the combination of screen and keyboard, two halves, is sufficiently unusual these days that it was worth putting right there in the name.

That's why I'm surprised that the new device doesn't include ‘Gemini’ somewhere in its name, as it looks basically like a Gemini 2: upgraded innards and new external features, but basically the same device made newer and better.

…which is exactly what I want!

Has anyone seen any downsides of the new device (except, obviously, for the cost and uncertainty over timescales)?  It's almost 1mm thicker, though presumably that's only in the centre where it's less noticeable.  It has the same battery, so maybe it won't drive the upgraded processor and external screen for quite so long?  Possible teething problems with Android 9 and the new hardware?

But if you were looking to get a Gemini, once the Cosmo is available, will there be any reason not to get a that instead?

Posted by: Varti Nov 5 2018, 05:47 AM

QUOTE(gidds @ Nov 5 2018, 02:29 PM) *
Has anyone seen any downsides of the new device (except, obviously, for the cost and uncertainty over timescales)?  It's almost 1mm thicker, though presumably that's only in the centre where it's less noticeable.  It has the same battery, so maybe it won't drive the upgraded processor and external screen for quite so long?  Possible teething problems with Android 9 and the new hardware?

But if you were looking to get a Gemini, once the Cosmo is available, will there be any reason not to get a that instead?

Good point. The only downside I can think of is its price, at the moment the Cosmo is more expensive. Also, the Gemini might be sold at a discounted price next year, when the Cosmo will start to be shipped. Anyway I believe the Cosmo is meant as a replacement of the Gemini, so once it will be available for sale, the Gemini will be probably already discontinued.

Varti

Posted by: andrewl Nov 5 2018, 06:00 AM

QUOTE(gidds @ Nov 5 2018, 05:29 AM) *
But if you were looking to get a Gemini, once the Cosmo is available, will there be any reason not to get a that instead?


Three Geminis have been backed on IndieGogo in the last week. I wonder if Planet will offer them an transfer to Cosmo. I would be vexed myself as they are about the same price.

Time to pull the Gemini campaign from IGG.


Posted by: RSS Nov 5 2018, 06:06 AM

It's a huge missed opportunity to have a bigger touchscreen on the back (when closed), so then you can use it like an actual smartphone, and when you need to use the keyboard, you could open the clamshell. This would have sold it to me personally.

That's my biggest issue with the Gemini (and this new Cosmo), it's just awkward to open it up for quick usage. It's especially awkward for any vertical usage, as the keyboard loses functionality and there is no ergonomics.

A smartphone is a quicker device for checking anything and the keyboard doesn't get in your way, which is probably why nobody is producing phones with keyboards these days. Even the last phones with them had slider keyboards that were hidden very well.

Having essentially dual screens could have made these two devices appeal to so many more consumers, it would have justified the very hefty price that the Cosmo goes for (even with a damn 31% off sale).
When you're not using the keyboard, it's a hindrance. It's what makes the Gemini PDA a really niche item. Giving the user a way to ignore it when not in use would have been great, it's another reason why everyone uses detachable bluetooth keyboards.

Also sore to see a lack of any pointing devices. A ThinkPad style trackpoint would have been a good addition, especially for the Linux users who aren't glued to a shell and terminal emulator unlike me.

I hope the third revision (if it comes around!) does my suggestions. A bit disappointed with the Cosmo Communicator, as nobody with a Gemini (the main audience) has a reason outside of backlighting to purchase it; however, it's a great step in the right direction, since these are the only people making smartphones with full proper keyboards!

Posted by: depscribe Nov 5 2018, 06:25 AM

QUOTE(andrewl @ Nov 5 2018, 06:00 AM) *
QUOTE(gidds @ Nov 5 2018, 05:29 AM) *
But if you were looking to get a Gemini, once the Cosmo is available, will there be any reason not to get a that instead?


Three Geminis have been backed on IndieGogo in the last week. I wonder if Planet will offer them an transfer to Cosmo. I would be vexed myself as they are about the same price.

Time to pull the Gemini campaign from IGG.

The Register says the Gemini isn't being discontinued: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/05/planet_computers_cosmo_communicator/

Though truth be known I'd come a lot closer to being interested if it shipped with Sailfish 3 as its main OS and the option to flash something else if you go insane or something.

Posted by: Daniel W Nov 5 2018, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(jornada720 @ Nov 5 2018, 11:31 AM) *
Why put a camera on it but no flash?

In the presentation video @ 2m23s:"To take a selfie or for a quick snap, you can operate the camera, zoom and flash without opening the clamshell."

Also, on the pictures of the device back, there's a small circle on each side of the camera lens, the left of which seems big enough to be a LED flash. The other one could be, say, a proximity sensor to turn the external screen off when the Cosmo is held at the ear.

Still though, I must admit that cramming 24MP into a cell phone camera sensor in 2019 seems a bit much for getting decent noise and low light performance out of it. From a technology versus usability point of view, around 10-14MP would seem optimal. I suppose they went with it to try and compensate the lack of proper zoom. With 24MP they could either down-sample to, say, 6MP and even out any Bayer filter artifacts (and some noise), or crop it down to 6MP (which still is plenty) for a "2x" zoom-ish effect.

Posted by: depscribe Nov 5 2018, 07:38 AM

QUOTE(Daniel W @ Nov 5 2018, 07:34 AM) *
QUOTE(jornada720 @ Nov 5 2018, 11:31 AM) *
Why put a camera on it but no flash?

In the presentation video @ 2m23s:"To take a selfie or fo a quick snap, you can operate th camera, zoom and flash without opening the clamshell."

Also, on the pictures of the device back, there's a small circle on each side of the camera lens, the left of which seems big enough to be a LED flash. The other one could be, say, a proximity sensor to turn the external screen off when the Cosmo is held at the ear.

Still though, I must admit that cramming 24MP into a cell phone camera sensor in 2019 seems a bit much for getting decent noise and low light performance out of it. From a technology versus usability point of view, around 10-14MP would seem optimal. I suppose they went with it to try and compensate the lack of proper zoom. With 24MP could could either downsample to, say, 6MP and even out any Bayer filter artefacts (and some noise), or crop it down to 6MP (which still is plenty) for a "2x" zoom-ish effect.

Yeppers. On my XperiaX, for instance, I shoot (when I have reason to pretend my telephone is a camera) at 8mp on a purported 24mp chip, and the results, particularly in low-ish light, are much improved over the higher resolution.

Posted by: pdtpoet Nov 5 2018, 09:52 AM

Although there will be much griping about the Cosmo not being the ideal device, we Gemini users must admit that our feedback was collected and heard to a significant degree.

I live in New York, and use the Gemini primarily as a productivity device - taking over from my beloved retired Psion 5mx. I finally achieved the typing speed on the Gemini I used to have on the Psion and it was a delightful experience! With the Gemini in Airplane mode the device could last a week! When I wanted to a document to enter any other computer ecosystem, I just activated the 4G modem and sent the material. My one complaint was the lack of a lit keyboard for darkened conference rooms...as I am a hunt-and-peck typist.

Planet Computers had a survey and the number one desired mod was a backlit keyboard. And a second screen. The Cosmo has both and fingerprint detection!

So they did listen. And I am order #329 for the Cosmo.

If we wish to continue to enjoy devices like the Gemini, we need to continue to support Planet. Hopefully, the Cosmo will be acceptable to a wider audience than we early adopters, and Planet will continue to support the devices for many years.

Posted by: vader Nov 5 2018, 05:55 PM

QUOTE(RSS @ Nov 6 2018, 12:06 AM) *
I hope the third revision (if it comes around!) does my suggestions. A bit disappointed with the Cosmo Communicator, as nobody with a Gemini (the main audience) has a reason outside of backlighting to purchase it; however, it's a great step in the right direction, since these are the only people making smartphones with full proper keyboards!

Some people with geminis have upgraded..... smile.gif

All the good things are still there (keyboard, screen, battery), plus faster processor/GPU, more RAM, more ROM, second display, much better camera, backlit keyboard. I did hum and har for a good hour or two, then put my money down. By then, sailfish 3.0 will be out and have a few updates under the belt.

Posted by: RSS Nov 5 2018, 10:59 PM

QUOTE(vader @ Nov 6 2018, 01:55 PM) *
QUOTE(RSS @ Nov 6 2018, 12:06 AM) *
I hope the third revision (if it comes around!) does my suggestions. A bit disappointed with the Cosmo Communicator, as nobody with a Gemini (the main audience) has a reason outside of backlighting to purchase it; however, it's a great step in the right direction, since these are the only people making smartphones with full proper keyboards!

Some people with geminis have upgraded..... smile.gif

All the good things are still there (keyboard, screen, battery), plus faster processor/GPU, more RAM, more ROM, second display, much better camera, backlit keyboard. I did hum and har for a good hour or two, then put my money down. By then, sailfish 3.0 will be out and have a few updates under the belt.

Most of these things are not beneficial towards what the Gemini's attraction (and life force) is: the keyboard. I certainly can't see why anyone needs the performance upgrades, another MediaTek chipset is painful. It seems like it's "more because why not", which just increases the costs.
The price IMO is just too high to justify a better camera and backlighting. If the Cosmo's standard price was around $400 USD, I could see it being very compelling, but that's literally half the current full price.

Yeah, $800 USD is madness, they should focus towards the low to mid range instead.
I would honestly be perfectly fine with a cheap $150 USD smartphone that has a keyboard, because using a keyboard (taking notes or using SSH) doesn't require such overkill flagship specs that go to waste running YouTube or a browser.

Posted by: andrewl Nov 6 2018, 04:32 AM

QUOTE(RSS @ Nov 5 2018, 10:59 PM) *
another MediaTek chipset is painful. It seems like it's "more because why not", which just increases the costs.


If the new SoC from Mediatek is more friendly to Linux then it will be worthwhile. I suspect that the situation won't change though.


Posted by: Murple2 Nov 6 2018, 07:07 AM

QUOTE(andrewl @ Nov 6 2018, 12:32 PM) *
QUOTE(RSS @ Nov 5 2018, 10:59 PM) *
another MediaTek chipset is painful. It seems like it's "more because why not", which just increases the costs.


If the new SoC from Mediatek is more friendly to Linux then it will be worthwhile. I suspect that the situation won't change though.

In theory it will be, just because it is newer and will need to satisfy Google's project treble requirements and have a minimum 4.4 kernel (which we have been promised for the gemini but i'm still not holding my breath). One possible positive to sticking with mediatek is PC will have some leverage when it comes to getting updates for our x25/27 chipsets. Perhaps mediatek will be more inclined to keep PC sweet?

Posted by: ehasbrouck Nov 6 2018, 12:37 PM

I wrote the following to Planetcom in response to this announcement:

QUOTE
Thanks for the announcement. But before you start working on a *new* device, *please* finish what you started and deliver the functionality you promised for the Gemini PDA.

Indiegogo backers of the Gemini were promised a device that would support calling and mobile data functions in either Android or Linux.

As of now, these functions are not available at all under Linux, and are available in Android *only* if Gemini users also install a bundle of proprietary Google-ware in addition to Android.

We expected and paid for a device with full functionality in either of two open-source operating systems, Android or Linux. As of now, we have neither.

Please, please, fulfill your promises to those who trusted you and gave you money for the Gemini PDA, before you start work on a new device.

There is no legal, licensing, or functional reason to make it a condition of using Android that Gemini users also install Google-ware. This Google software is not part of Android, and Gemini buyers were given no indication that we would only be able to use Android on our Gemini if we also agreed to install Google software on Google's terms.

Google is explicit that the proprietary Google software you have chosen to bundle with Android for Gemini is *not* part of Android, that Android is open source, and that device designers are free to distribute devices with alternate versions of Android including versions without Google-ware, without violating the terms of their licenses to distribute Google software to those users who want it.

You can, if you want, support and distribute devices with a version of Android (such as Lineage OS) that isn't bundled with Google-ware.

I understand that you may want to pre-install Android bundled with Google-ware as the *default* on the Gemini. But Android (free and open source, without Google-ware) should be an easily installable option for the Gemini, supported by you, for those who want it.

You have reneged on your commitments to date, but it's not too late to fulfill them by releasing and committing to continued support of an Android distribution for the Gemini not bundled with Google-ware.


I got the following fairly encouraging response about both continued support of the Gemini and Lineage OS on the Gemini::

QUOTE
I understand you might be a little concerned about the Gemini after our newly announced Cosmo product. To us, the two devices are separate products and they will both receive our support in future. The Gemini is far from reaching the end of its production cycle, and it will continue receiving our attention for years after that. As the architecture on both of the devices is very similar, supporting both of them simultaneously will not necessarily require special efforts from our side.

We are having some progress with Lineage but it's too early to promise anything. All I can tell you is that we're exploring multiple options to satisfy the needs of our users.


Other past or prospective Gemini buyers should let Planetcom know, politely, if you also consider it important for them to follow through on their commitments to open-source Android on the Gemini.

Posted by: Tom D Nov 6 2018, 01:14 PM

QUOTE(Gadgetman! @ Nov 5 2018, 05:17 AM) *
I wouldn't mind a faster CPU and more storage, but... Backlight keyboard, external 2" LCD and all that malarkey is just fluff.


Fluff to you. For me they make a big difference. I use the Gemini in a dim environment every evening. It is a real bummer to tilt the screen back without the device closing - a tricky proposition - just to type a few words. The extra storage and CPU is nice, but not as big for me...but heck, why not! 6 MB RAM is nice also. The external LCD makes it more likely for me to use it as a phone. I tried using my Pebble with the phone but the bluetooth connection kept dropping after a few minutes of inactivity with the Gemini. The decent external camera seals the deal for using it as a single device. I was embarrassed to post a photo with the external camera add-on. Right now I keep a phone with the Gemini. This might convince me to get rid of the phone.

So, while the changes might not hit your sweet spot, they really do for me. Plus I assume I can ask Scotty to beam me up with it.

Posted by: gymbo Nov 6 2018, 03:05 PM

QUOTE(Tom D @ Nov 6 2018, 11:14 PM) *
So, while the changes might not hit your sweet spot, they really do for me. Plus I assume I can ask Scotty to beam me up with it.

So THAT is what the "out of this world" means...

But where will you end up if (when?) you get beamed up???

(And although you can ask Scotty to beam you up with it, are you really sure he would...? laugh.gif rolleyes.gif blink.gif )

Posted by: speculatrix Nov 6 2018, 03:14 PM


It's good that there's lively discussions. but...

Some of the comments in this thread were not in keeping with the high standards* we expect on this forum, so I either deleted them or edited.

Some of the comments were more quote than comment, so I pruned them. I know this forum's editor isn't the easiest to use, hopefully one day we'll be able to upgrade to something a bit better, but please try to only quote one previous comment in order to prevent quote overload.





* simply: "be nice, be reasonable."

Posted by: andrewl Nov 7 2018, 12:02 AM

There must have been something said off the record that caused some people to get excited about a linux supported device. As I understood, Gemini has always been Android focused with Debian and other linux offered as a secondary boot option for hack-play. I think Planet hoped for a community uptake to enhance the compatibility with linux.

One thing I know is that developing low level accelerated video drivers is not child's play so I had no expectations of any serious linux based device - though I am faintly hopeful that Sailfish 3 will provide a direct boot single OS option that will allow me to remove the repulsive Android completely.

I have been using the Sailfish option since it was available, which is far from perfect but still infinitely preferable to Android. I hope that Jolla don't get sidetracked from Gemini to focus on Cosmo Smallpiece.

Posted by: salvomic Nov 7 2018, 12:25 AM

I agree, Andrew, my greatest preoccupation is that PC should neglect Gemini and mostly development of Linux part, but also Android should go *soon* to Oreo (8) and maybe to v9 (Pie), as 7.1 is nowadays too old...
Often I "play" with Debian in Gemini, but it should be developed in many parts: cellular part, improvements in various other parts... However I like it and I like the possibility for the user to install it at boot.
I tried a few times Sailfish as I know few about, but it is surely a good alternative Linux and also nice to see.
I do hope PC, after this "storm" of news about Cosmo, returns to Gemini with firmware updates and so on smile.gif
They should also thing whether there is a way to implement a possibility to use OTA also in those systems that are multi boot or "Rooted Android": a lot of users don't try those systems fearing to upgrade Gemini via a program and an USB cable; it would be better to use simply OTA also...
In a word: a more friendly manner to enjoy our Gemini.
Ah, yeah: for now I rest with Gemini and I dear say to say that I like the Gemini look more and more than Cosmo (but I'm a nostalgic "Psionist") smile.gif

salvo

Posted by: gidds Nov 7 2018, 12:36 AM

QUOTE(RSS @ Nov 5 2018, 02:06 PM) *
Also sore to see a lack of any pointing devices.

I can't help thinking that if you need a mouse or trackpad, then you're not using the right UI for this form factor!

(I'm not getting at Linux specifically here, but common desktop-based UIs are never going to feel very natural on a small device with a touchscreen. Doesn't Sailfish show how much better an alternative can work?)

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